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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:42:00 -
[1]
Doomsdays in Low-Sec worked shortly after the release of dominion, CCP then stealth removed it without saying anything in the patch notes or in a DEV-Blog stating why it got removed.
We all assumed it got removed to protect the old Motherships (without the HP buffer) a little, since one got 2 shot by 2 titans in low-sec.
Since the old motherships got changed to Supercarriers with a huge HP boost, now would be the time to change Doomsdays back as they were.
Comment/Flame/Support, have fun.
-SFS
[VIDEO] Paroxysm
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MillerUk
Caldari Knights Of Divinity Reckoning.
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:50:00 -
[2]
Bookmarking because SFS told me to
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:53:00 -
[3]
It got removed because there is no way to counter a titan reasonably in low sec due to the inability to use bubbles. It was a bug, was removed in the first patch and was listed in the patch notes.
/not supported
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
ZinderX500
Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:54:00 -
[4]
I heard Tansien supports this.
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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2010.04.08 17:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: King Rothgar It got removed because there is no way to counter a titan reasonably in low sec due to the inability to use bubbles. It was a bug, was removed in the first patch and was listed in the patch notes.
/not supported
focussed points from hictors work perfectly
[VIDEO] Paroxysm
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Kai page
Resonance. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.04.08 18:04:00 -
[6]
sfs ♥
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Htrag
The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2010.04.08 18:06:00 -
[7]
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.08 19:37:00 -
[8]
Originally by: SFShootme
Originally by: King Rothgar It got removed because there is no way to counter a titan reasonably in low sec due to the inability to use bubbles. It was a bug, was removed in the first patch and was listed in the patch notes.
/not supported
focussed points from hictors work perfectly
A focused point is not a reasonable counter. A few HIC's are too easy to counter. You need an AoE warp disruptor of some sort to reliably tackle a titan (or super carrier). Also, low sec has restrictions besides AoE which further shift things in favor of a titan. It was a bug, I know a handful of people had fun solo owning everyone in low sec who didn't have a titan or 50 dreads on standby but get over it. They promptly and wisely removed that.
How would you like to live in null sec with no cyno jammers, no bubbles and 100+ hostile titans 1-2 cynos away all the time? I think you would quickly change your mind on how good of an idea it is. Low sec is dead enough as is, we don't need a couple douche bags running around in titans ganking the few people who actually scratch a living there.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Danny Centauri
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.04.08 19:39:00 -
[9]
Definately support this. The changes to Titans have devalued them slightly, this change would go some way to rectifying this. :)
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.08 19:57:00 -
[10]
CCP already said that they will bring it back in the last CSM meeting in iceland. might want to read the minutes.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:10:00 -
[11]
The minutes say a CSM wanted it reintroduced, it did not say CCP was actually interested in doing so. Only that they would look into it. It's a very bad idea, it basically destroyed low sec for the few days it existed. If you think low sec is dead now, just wait until 140 bored titan pilots scattered around null sec start hotdropping and one shotting everything bigger than a t1 BC. It will be great for the 140 or so titan pilots, going to suck for the other 400k+ players. I might actually cancel both my accounts, it's a game breaking change for low sec pvp and pve too.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:14:00 -
[12]
Originally by: King Rothgar The minutes say a CSM wanted it reintroduced, it did not say CCP was actually interested in doing so. Only that they would look into it. It's a very bad idea, it basically destroyed low sec for the few days it existed. If you think low sec is dead now, just wait until 140 bored titan pilots scattered around null sec start hotdropping and one shotting everything bigger than a t1 BC. It will be great for the 140 or so titan pilots, going to suck for the other 400k+ players. I might actually cancel both my accounts, it's a game breaking change for low sec pvp and pve too.
most things that got shot were station hugging carriers. for anything smaller you should ask yourself why you were sitting still so long that the titan could lock you. all in all I think lowsec DD will get more titans killed. which is a good thing no?
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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: SFShootme on 08/04/2010 20:20:32
Originally by: King Rothgar The minutes say a CSM wanted it reintroduced, it did not say CCP was actually interested in doing so. Only that they would look into it. It's a very bad idea, it basically destroyed low sec for the few days it existed. If you think low sec is dead now, just wait until 140 bored titan pilots scattered around null sec start hotdropping and one shotting everything bigger than a t1 BC. It will be great for the 140 or so titan pilots, going to suck for the other 400k+ players. I might actually cancel both my accounts, it's a game breaking change for low sec pvp and pve too.
It destroyed low-sec because you couldn't station camp in your Carrier anymore? Any Titan pilot without support will still be stuck in a system for 10 minutes after firing a doomsday. If at all, it should bring some more action if titan pilots start doomsdaying small stuff left and right.
Also the cancelling accounts argument really finishes it, lol.
Also, if in the next big Patch Supercapital insurance is going to drop down to 1-10% of the value i would also see this as another reason to re-introduce lowsec-doomsdaying.
(lowsec station camping capitals are gay)
Quote:
most things that got shot were station hugging carriers. for anything smaller you should ask yourself why you were sitting still so long that the titan could lock you. all in all I think lowsec DD will get more titans killed. which is a good thing no?
[VIDEO] Paroxysm
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.08 21:11:00 -
[14]
Me, no, I don't station camp in a carrier. The lock time is too slow and the dps is terribly unreliable. Not a big fan of station camping or gate camping anyways. I have no respect for station hugging capitals either. Real men warp their carrier to a belt to fight an obvious trap and win anyways. However, you must look at it in more detail. What happens when you take 140+ titans that are 1 jump away from an area where they:
1) Can't be bubbled. 2) Will not face more than a handful of capitals since low sec lacks the resources for large capital fleets. 3) Are well within range of their own capital fleets if things go badly.
I get what you are saying and understand your perspective. But I can't agree or accept it without some additional means to counter titans in low sec. Right now the bored titan pilots want to go gank some "noob pirates" in low sec that are hugging a station in a carrier. But what happens when they run out of those? Well, they are still basically invincible in low sec for the reasons I gave above. So they will go after other shiny stuff.
Suddenly navy mega's are worthy of a titan hotdrop, then normal mega's. Eventually you find yourself dropping titans on t1 BC's. I've seen motherships do this plenty of times, don't think for a second that titans won't if they could actually hit them. The worst current offender I know of is invicta, I've watched them drop several motherships (back when they were moms) and 25+ carriers/dreads on solo BS's. There is no shortage of people who would do the same with a titan if it could one shot anything on grid save for another supercapital. I would do it myself if I could, and it's a good thing I can't because it's bad for gameplay.
I also reject your idea that you can get away. My alt has a really nice cyno ship, it's called an arazu. It has a 64km warp disruptor range with recons 4 (overheated) and 20km+ with a scrambler. This is without leadership. I don't think your navy mega is really going to slow boat 20km without a mwd followed by another 44km in the 30 seconds it takes the titan to jump in and lock you. You also won't kill said arazu. It has a tank and can last atleast 30 seconds. Even so I'd probably jam you either with the sensor damps or with some ECM drones. I don't think I'd actually put the ship in a situation where you might be able to kill it before you died.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.08 21:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: King Rothgar Sage words
What he said.
Carrier's, even dock monkeys, can be killed by a 20-30 man BS gang so hardly a valid reason for requiring DD's. Consider that a Titan will require roughly the same number of Dreads to be killed before vanishing from log-off or jumping out.
HIC's will do nothing to a Titan unless you have loads of them or a capital fleet on stand-by (in which case you are baiting the Titan which can be done now as well). With no capital fleet you will lose a HIC every ten minutes from Titan DD, more from whatever support he brought with him. With a capital fleet you have to melt it in less than 15 minutes as he can log-off at any time.
No Bubbles = No DD (and no most low-sec denizens don't want the filthy bubbles either!)
If on the other hand you were to make jumping into low-sec (ie. sovereign Empire space) so insanely fuel intensive that it severely restricted the use of DD and capitals in general it might be worth it.
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.04.08 22:00:00 -
[16]
Make lowsec doomsday only able to activate on capitals within docking range of a station. Problem solved
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2010.04.08 23:00:00 -
[17]
NOT supported. People are already dropping dozens of motherships and carriers on small cruiser gangs or even solo battleships imagine what titans + doomsday in low sec would bring... soon we'd have 5 titans hotdrop small gangs and insta pop them. fuel costs etc most of those pilots couldn't care less about. It would ruin low-sec even more. --signature-- Support the Field Command ship boost: Here |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.04.08 23:27:00 -
[18]
No thank you.
High sec is already crowded enough without the refugees from lowsec doomdays crowding our stations and spaces lanes, whinging on about how CONCORD won't let them do anything fun. --Vel
Originally by: Jiseinoku
Mining is the path to enlightement.
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Ignition SemperFi
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.04.09 01:17:00 -
[19]
Originally by: adriaans NOT supported. People are already dropping dozens of motherships and carriers on small cruiser gangs or even solo battleships imagine what titans + doomsday in low sec would bring... soon we'd have 5 titans hotdrop small gangs and insta pop them. fuel costs etc most of those pilots couldn't care less about. It would ruin low-sec even more.
and now you can easily gank those carrier/super carrier gangs that like to hot drop with an even more expensive hotdrop
all it was, a nerf to station games and gave a chance to strike at almost invulnerable JFs in lowsec.
Titan pilots that continue to hot drop single battleships will eventually be removed of their titan by someone with more brain power, most likely using titans to kill his titan
Eve is an arms race... i say let them use the BFG! ---- People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
New PVP Movie - Space Vikings II |
Mimiru Minahiro
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Posted - 2010.04.09 02:30:00 -
[20]
Totally.
Lowsec needs more risks for those people who are not in power blocks or part of NAPtrains. Especially those that are audacious enough to try and drop a POS down.
Its time they adapted or died... or just went back to highsec.
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Gavin Darklighter
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2010.04.09 04:06:00 -
[21]
Fixing the station hugging carrier problem is not worth making it so that solo pilots in pimped out subcaps die instantly to a titan.
signature picture exceeds the size limit.~WeatherMan |
BroChi
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.04.10 01:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Fixing the station hugging carrier problem is not worth making it so that solo pilots in pimped out subcaps die instantly to a titan.
so how would you fix it?
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.04.10 01:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: BroChi
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Fixing the station hugging carrier problem is not worth making it so that solo pilots in pimped out subcaps die instantly to a titan.
so how would you fix it?
How about a 5 minute aggression timer for any cap that aggro'd outside a station or RRs a ship that is aggro'ing. See, now everyone has a shot to kill the lame station capitals instead of just a few titan pilots. Using Titans to fix a broken game mechanic is a terrible idea. Titans weren't allowed to DDD in low sec before and I don't see why they should now or ever.
Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose. |
BroChi
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.04.10 01:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: BroChi
Originally by: Gavin Darklighter Fixing the station hugging carrier problem is not worth making it so that solo pilots in pimped out subcaps die instantly to a titan.
so how would you fix it?
How about a 5 minute aggression timer for any cap that aggro'd outside a station or RRs a ship that is aggro'ing. See, now everyone has a shot to kill the lame station capitals instead of just a few titan pilots. Using Titans to fix a broken game mechanic is a terrible idea. Titans weren't allowed to DDD in low sec before and I don't see why they should now or ever.
because before titans used to have Area of Effect doomsdays. Its different to take out 1 ship or a 30 man lowsec battlecruiser roaming gang with 1 shot.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.10 07:43:00 -
[25]
The old DD couldn't kill 30 BC's. A typical BC has 70k-110k EHP, the old DD did 65k damage if my memory is correct. That's pretty tankable. I would support increasing the deaggression timer some or even scaling it with ship size but introducing DD's in low sec is a terrible idea. Yes it solves some problems, but the cure is worse than the disease. This is especially true since a few minor adjustments to other aspects would work even better.
Jump freighters should be banned from high sec just like all the other capitals with jump drives. The jump freighter might still be invincible but that iteron he has to use to ferry stuff to and from low sec to the JF isn't. It's the cargo that's important, not the ship. Station hugging carriers can be solved with simply increasing the aggression timer for them. Make it 5 minutes instead of 1 for capitals and make remote repping for all ships count as aggression and block docking. I'd also support a general aggression timer increase to 2 minutes instead of the current 1 minute.
On a related note, most station hugging carriers are too afraid of a 30 dread hotdrop so they don't aggress anyways. All they do is remote rep people. If you light a cyno and drop a titan on them they will dock before you could ever lock them, nevermind DD them.
I think this whole thread is supported not by those who want to kill station hugging carriers but those who want to gank everything in low sec with their titan risk free since they can't really be tackled. Yes a HIC can, but that can only hold a titan long enough to throw up a bubble and it's a suicide tackle. No bubbles in low sec means you really can't hold him there even if you have enough dreads to kill him in 15 minutes. Which is doubtful since low sec lacks the resources to support dread fleets that big.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.04.10 09:26:00 -
[26]
/me waves hand
This is not the boost to low sec you are looking for.
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Ceralio
The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2010.04.11 00:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: King Rothgar The old DD couldn't kill 30 BC's. A typical BC has 70k-110k EHP, the old DD did 65k damage if my memory is correct. That's pretty tankable. I would support increasing the deaggression timer some or even scaling it with ship size but introducing DD's in low sec is a terrible idea. Yes it solves some problems, but the cure is worse than the disease. This is especially true since a few minor adjustments to other aspects would work even better.
Jump freighters should be banned from high sec just like all the other capitals with jump drives. The jump freighter might still be invincible but that iteron he has to use to ferry stuff to and from low sec to the JF isn't. It's the cargo that's important, not the ship. Station hugging carriers can be solved with simply increasing the aggression timer for them. Make it 5 minutes instead of 1 for capitals and make remote repping for all ships count as aggression and block docking. I'd also support a general aggression timer increase to 2 minutes instead of the current 1 minute.
On a related note, most station hugging carriers are too afraid of a 30 dread hotdrop so they don't aggress anyways. All they do is remote rep people. If you light a cyno and drop a titan on them they will dock before you could ever lock them, nevermind DD them.
I think this whole thread is supported not by those who want to kill station hugging carriers but those who want to gank everything in low sec with their titan risk free since they can't really be tackled. Yes a HIC can, but that can only hold a titan long enough to throw up a bubble and it's a suicide tackle. No bubbles in low sec means you really can't hold him there even if you have enough dreads to kill him in 15 minutes. Which is doubtful since low sec lacks the resources to support dread fleets that big.
You never seen a big low-sec dread fleet? It supports it pretty well.
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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.04.11 06:55:00 -
[28]
Name a single low sec corp/alliance that has 20+ dread pilots online and active 23/7. Between my corp and various allies, I'm sure I can throw together a sizable capital fleet with a day or two of notice. But 20+ dreads with 30 seconds warning is asking a bit much of any low sec group. The only ones who can do that are alliances with 1000's of members and you won't find those in low sec. Only null sec has sufficient riches to support that many players.
This is going off topic though, the real reason titans should not and are not allowed to DD in low sec is because without bubbles, they can't be reasonably tackled and killed if all they are doing are drive by's with their one shot wonder gun. They can of course go to low sec and blast away with their heavily bonused weapons and jump bridge fleets around. But those actions are less powerful and are more easily countered by the game mechanics and resources of low sec.
TBH the current DD design in general is terrible for gameplay. I would much prefer to see it turned into a super siege module. Then make the thing the ultimate gun/missile boat from hell. Do that and suddenly the DD argument becomes moot, I'd have no problem with that in low sec. But that's another argument I suppose.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.11 11:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: King Rothgar Name a single low sec corp/alliance that has 20+ dread pilots online and active 23/7. Between my corp and various allies, I'm sure I can throw together a sizable capital fleet with a day or two of notice. But 20+ dreads with 30 seconds warning is asking a bit much of any low sec group. The only ones who can do that are alliances with 1000's of members and you won't find those in low sec. Only null sec has sufficient riches to support that many players.
This is going off topic though, the real reason titans should not and are not allowed to DD in low sec is because without bubbles, they can't be reasonably tackled and killed if all they are doing are drive by's with their one shot wonder gun. They can of course go to low sec and blast away with their heavily bonused weapons and jump bridge fleets around. But those actions are less powerful and are more easily countered by the game mechanics and resources of low sec.
TBH the current DD design in general is terrible for gameplay. I would much prefer to see it turned into a super siege module. Then make the thing the ultimate gun/missile boat from hell. Do that and suddenly the DD argument becomes moot, I'd have no problem with that in low sec. But that's another argument I suppose.
just guessing but how about ADH/CH/INVICTA? they would mostlikely drop titans and moms on your titan aswell.
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Larkonis Trassler
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.11 12:55:00 -
[30]
In two minds about this. All the guys QQing about the risks to their pimp BS or station hugging carriers, grow up, really. What you can achieve with a Titan you can achieve with 1-2 MILFs under current mechanics.
I see it as a good conflict driver and will give entities more opportunities to bait Titans and send them to their watery graves.
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist No. Larkonis |
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