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Orion Zero
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Posted - 2010.04.09 17:45:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 17:47:01 Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 17:46:27 . "Station Games". If you have experienced it, you likely hate it. Once someone aggresses, they should not be able to dock back up in a station only 30 seconds later.
Three proposals to fix the problem:
1) Change the docking timer after aggression from 30 seconds to 5 minutes.
2) Add a little uncertainty by making the time it takes to dock after aggression depend on the station owner and the security standing the player has with that owner. For instance, if I am trying to dock at a Fed Navy station after aggression, and my Fed Navy status is 8.0 or higher, 30 seconds is good. But if my status were instead -2.0, then it should take 5 or more minutes.
3) When undocking, the ship should start about 15 km away from the station, same as when going through a jump gate. Maybe also have people come out of the station at random points rather than everyone exiting at the same spot.
What do you think?
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eliminator2
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.09 17:48:00 -
[2]
i hate station games when its 1v1 but when its blob vs 1 im not to fusted because basicly if the guy can dock before the blob kills him the blob should go die because they suck and carnt kill someone in time :p -----------------------------------------------
I met Eliminator1..... I chewed it up, and spat it out. Now, he is my minion.
I kill miners and mission runners people say, I call them target pra |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.09 17:52:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Orion Zero Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 17:47:01 Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 17:46:27 . "Station Games". If you have experienced it, you likely hate it. Once someone aggresses, they should not be able to dock back up in a station only 30 seconds later.
Three proposals to fix the problem:
1) Change the docking timer after aggression from 30 seconds to 5 minutes.
2) Add a little uncertainty by making the time it takes to dock after aggression depend on the station owner and the security standing the player has with that owner. For instance, if I am trying to dock at a Fed Navy station after aggression, and my Fed Navy status is 8.0 or higher, 30 seconds is good. But if my status were instead -2.0, then it should take 5 or more minutes.
3) When undocking, the ship should start about 15 km away from the station, same as when going through a jump gate. Maybe also have people come out of the station at random points rather than everyone exiting at the same spot.
What do you think?
so you want everyone to grind standing for reasonable docking timer? *facepalms*
... if you dont like docking games ... stop playing them. go roaming lowsec/0.0. if they try to camp you in, use insta undock bookmarks and laugh at them.
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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:07:00 -
[4]
As much as you seam to have thought of this idea you seam to be coming at a very biased angle. True station games are lame but this is EVE where piracy and generaly being evil is both promoted and accepted as the norm.
think about it , a player is in a drake missioning when a black bird shows up and proceads to ECM him , he rightfully would counter attack with what ever he has, now where that black birds buddys show up in 2 BS he would run , but with your idea he couldnt dock for 5 minutes unless he has a huge rating with that stations corp. and while i can see why this would be wanted by a pvper as it keeps your prey out longer and hence more chance of kills keep in mind that most pvp in eve is not consensual if a mining barge used his drones to try and hold you off while he warped to station he should not be greated with a you cant dock for 5 minutes because you tryed to defend yourself message
long story short if you hate docking games get a big group together to insta own the target or go to lowsec/null where you can use more powerfull weapons
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Orion Zero
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:33:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 18:36:45 Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 18:34:10
Originally by: darius mclever
so you want everyone to grind standing for reasonable docking timer? *facepalms*
... if you dont like docking games ... stop playing them. go roaming lowsec/0.0. if they try to camp you in, use insta undock bookmarks and laugh at them.
That was one of three ideas. No comment on the other two?
Personally, I think the third idea is the best - making people start 15 km from the station when they undock. This would prevent them from docking back up immediately.
Also, this is more geared towards wars, not roaming. As it stands, wars taking place in Empire space are a joke. It's just griefers annoying fleets and fleets sitting around waiting for something to happen.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/04/2010 18:40:10 Please, stop with the omg station games nonsense. It takes two sides to play station games. If you want to avoid station games, then just stop trying to gank people in station with bait/blob tactics which don't need any sort of boost anyway.
"Griefers annoying fleets" btw is a epic comment, they're "griefing" you because...? You do not get a automatic killmail if you bait and then jump in the blob? Interesting definition of griefing.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Orion Zero
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:43:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 18:43:55 Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 18:43:16
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/04/2010 18:40:10 Please, stop with the omg station games nonsense. It takes two sides to play station games. If you want to avoid station games, then just stop trying to gank people in station with bait/blob tactics which don't need any sort of boost anyway.
"Griefers annoying fleets" btw is a epic comment, they're "griefing" you because...? You do not get a automatic killmail if you bait and then jump in the blob? Interesting definition of griefing.
I've never "ganked" anyone - we're talking about war. The game rewards people who won't fight, and then go and gank lone shuttles and mining barges instead. Instead of war, CCP should rename it "Government taxed and sanctioned piracy" .
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.09 18:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Orion Zero Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 18:43:55 Edited by: Orion Zero on 09/04/2010 18:43:16
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/04/2010 18:40:10 Please, stop with the omg station games nonsense. It takes two sides to play station games. If you want to avoid station games, then just stop trying to gank people in station with bait/blob tactics which don't need any sort of boost anyway.
"Griefers annoying fleets" btw is a epic comment, they're "griefing" you because...? You do not get a automatic killmail if you bait and then jump in the blob? Interesting definition of griefing.
I've never "ganked" anyone - we're talking about war. The game rewards people who won't fight, and then go and gank lone shuttles and mining barges instead. Instead of war, CCP should rename it "Government taxed and sanctioned piracy" .
first of all ... you can fight ... you choose to fight on stations. dont like the playing field, pick a different one. also if you would have done any kind of research before posting ... you would have check CSM meeting minutes e.g. ... and you would have noticed that CCP is looking into making warp scramblers prevent docking. but they also want the possibilty to see who is outside before undocking.
so that might take a while. if you want lots of fights ... go north. go syndicate, go great wildlands, go egmar->amamake->kamela pipe, go blackrise/placid, go aridia/solitude. plenty PVP out there.
if you still want to play your docking game ... your choice.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.09 20:01:00 -
[9]
I find it curious that station managers even allow weapons fire that close to their multi-trillion ISK installations. Empire corporations must be raking in dough to repair all the damage done by stray ordnance.
Kill off any activation of any sort of projected modules within docking range of an NPC station. No more undock lag fests. No more immune RR. Problem solved. NPC null-sec can still anchor bubbles outside docking range to cover undock points so would hardly feel a thing. Will be a major pain to be inside one such station but thats what jump-clones are for
If people want to hit each other over the head they can bloody well go to a gate/planet like civilized people.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.09 23:20:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida I find it curious that station managers even allow weapons fire that close to their multi-trillion ISK installations. Empire corporations must be raking in dough to repair all the damage done by stray ordnance.
Kill off any activation of any sort of projected modules within docking range of an NPC station. No more undock lag fests. No more immune RR. Problem solved. NPC null-sec can still anchor bubbles outside docking range to cover undock points so would hardly feel a thing. Will be a major pain to be inside one such station but thats what jump-clones are for
If people want to hit each other over the head they can bloody well go to a gate/planet like civilized people.
Certainly better then the idiotic CSM proposal.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.09 23:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Certainly better then the idiotic CSM proposal.
Allow me to comment on that..the ideas that were mentioned in the CSM meeting minutes were CCP's, not ours. That said, they weren't crazy at all, given some motivation.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
Komi Toran
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Posted - 2010.04.10 00:59:00 -
[12]
Meh, basically anything you do to station games will just make people dock up and stay docked. No one is going to run off to a planet to do their fighting, and gate battles will still only be the domain of fleets that are willing to actually get shot at and risk losing their ships (in other words: not the kind of people who play around stations).
Basically, what Eve lacks is a reason to fight in Empire. Solve that problem, and station games will no longer matter.
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Irn Bruce
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Posted - 2010.04.10 01:24:00 -
[13]
Just make all the stations kick out like the minmatar ones do. If you're agile enough and can tank long enough to get back to the station or warp off, fine, you can redock, but if the campers are worth their salt, you'll not be able to, fine, you shouldn't have undocked. Alternatively, when at war, only dock in stations where you have an insta. It's really not that hard.
Problems with station games only arise with the stupidly large dock radius on the Caldari stations. Some of them a ship can travel 40km after undocking and still be in dock range. The undock point should always be at the edge of the dock radius.
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Barton Gilbert
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Posted - 2010.04.10 03:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Irn Bruce Problems with station games only arise with the stupidly large dock radius on the Caldari stations. Some of them a ship can travel 40km after undocking and still be in dock range. The undock point should always be at the edge of the dock radius.
Yeah the 40km dock radius is absurd. All stations should be kickouts, that would go a long way to help.
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KaiserSoze434
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Posted - 2010.04.10 04:39:00 -
[15]
Just needs an increasing docking timer. First undock and you can redock in 30 secs. 2nd undock and you can redock in 3 minutes. "Aghast the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is." |
Vespoi Filar
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Posted - 2010.04.10 05:51:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vespoi Filar on 10/04/2010 05:52:06
Originally by: mchief117 As much as you seam to have thought of this idea you seam to be coming at a very biased angle. True station games are lame but this is EVE where piracy and generaly being evil is both promoted and accepted as the norm.
think about it , a player is in a drake missioning when a black bird shows up and proceads to ECM him , he rightfully would counter attack with what ever he has, now where that black birds buddys show up in 2 BS he would run , but with your idea he couldnt dock for 5 minutes unless he has a huge rating with that stations corp. and while i can see why this would be wanted by a pvper as it keeps your prey out longer and hence more chance of kills keep in mind that most pvp in eve is not consensual if a mining barge used his drones to try and hold you off while he warped to station he should not be greated with a you cant dock for 5 minutes because you tryed to defend yourself message
long story short if you hate docking games get a big group together to insta own the target or go to lowsec/null where you can use more powerfull weapons
Seriously... at what point did the OP actually think this **** out?
EDIT: Or you for that matter?
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.10 06:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sokratesz That said, they weren't crazy at all, given some motivation.
Care to elaborate? Motivation as in "at least they are aware" or something different?
Originally by: Irn Bruce Just make all the stations kick out like the minmatar ones do...
Ugh! Why should everyone suffer from the Minmatar engineers crappy math skills The docking zones should be "normalized" so they are semi-predictable. Undock point should be close to the edge, but far enough that you can hit CRTL+Space upon loading and stop in time .. anything more and you flip the whole thing on its head and give the campers all the benefit/power instead of the monkeys.
Originally by: Komi Toran ..and gate battles will still only be the domain of fleets that are willing to actually get shot at and risk losing their ships (in other words: not the kind of people who play around stations)....
As far as Empire (High-/Low-sec) is concerned the people who are the root of this only fight on stations because it is so damn easy and provides 100% safe RR due to the aggro oversight. Gate fights happen quite frequently, in low-sec at least, but also suffers from the RR aggro oversight (not as pronounced due to the 15km travel time but still present).
I have stopped going to Jita entirely because I consistently disconnected when client tried loading the messy undock grid .. Amarr is getting close but have only dropped once (saturday night \o/) so far. The heaps of wrecks and constant fights on undock is the major contributor to this and I would rather have it removed than "fixed" to be brutally honest.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.10 08:55:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Sokratesz That said, they weren't crazy at all, given some motivation.
Care to elaborate? Motivation as in "at least they are aware" or something different?
??
I just thought Noah's ideas about disallowing docking and the in-station overview were well-considered.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
Komi Toran
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Posted - 2010.04.10 09:09:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida As far as Empire (High-/Low-sec) is concerned the people who are the root of this only fight on stations because it is so damn easy and provides 100% safe RR due to the aggro oversight.
Off topic, but that's not an "oversight." Imagine if RR did actually cause agro for a sec. How would logistic ships ever hope to survive an engagement? They have no means of killing their attackers, no local tank, and half of them require keeping a cap transfer on a partner in order to receive RR of their own.
You might think lack of agro makes them overpowered, but the addition of agro would make at least the Basilisk and the Guardian flying coffins.
And really, if you know what you're doing, it ain't that hard to nullify them.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.10 09:35:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Komi Toran
You might think lack of agro makes them overpowered, but the addition of agro would make at least the Basilisk and the Guardian flying coffins.
And really, if you know what you're doing, it ain't that hard to nullify them.
That's the other side of the coin when talking about RR - if they wanted to fix it they would have to rethink the entire logistics role.
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.10 12:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: darius mclever
so you want everyone to grind standing for reasonable docking timer? *facepalms*
With multiple corporations no less *doublefacepalms*
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.10 12:28:00 -
[22]
Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 10/04/2010 12:28:07 nvm
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.10 15:40:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Komi Toran Off topic, but that's not an "oversight."...
The fact that people do not bother with local tanks is because RR is omni-present/-potent by comparison, a large part of which is due to the oversight. And that is without taking neutral RR into account (flagged to aggressors only, big whoop).
So what if a few more logistics die?
They cost about the same as a properly T2 fitted BS but have a much greater impact on a fight than said BS, if an enemy decides to use multiple webs and/or TPs to make them scratch-able then all the better .. means the friendlies can pick apart the opposition (assuming even fights).
When they are constantly docking/jumping they are not actually doing anything so they might as well be dead as far as the outcome of a fight is concerned, pilot would have been for better for the collective if he had been a BS in the first place.
If we eliminate any projected effects within docking range it becomes a moot point as gates are considerably harder for logistics to fight on than stations .. every jump-out means a 15km trek back to gate + session timer + gridload with the possibility of an enemy jumping with it and killing it.
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Don Pellegrino
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.04.10 19:33:00 -
[24]
I think the best proposal so far is this one:
You can't redock if you aggressed someone AND are warp scrambled/disrupted after aggressing. Attacking will still give you the current aggression timer.
That way, no need for the overview when docked. You don't want to play station games? Don't aggress and warp out or redock after 30-60 seconds. If you aggress, you are committing to the fight and have to get rid of everybody tackling you before being able to redock.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.11 14:47:00 -
[25]
For starters, it would be nice if they made a one size fits all dockrange..
CSM Iceland meeting minutes - READ THEM :D |
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