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Morel Nova
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 08:56:00 -
[1]
This new trend of fitting ECM bursts to angel ships is seriously getting out of hand. These modules makes you practically immune to small ships, and have a very high chance of shaking cruiser sized vessels. Yesterday I lost tackle on 2 (two!!) cynabals in my dramiel I would have had no issue killing otherwise. it just doesnt have a viable counter due to their range matching scrambler/orbit range. I suggest reducing strength on ECM bursts with maybe 25% at least and shortening range so a smart pilot has a chance to dodge (like you can against small neuts).
I admit I have been flying these myself and gotten out of insane situations with it (scrambled by 3 ceptors *burst* goodbye) but these ships are already hard to catch (not like the WCS dramiels though wtf) but its getting out of hand now with so many showing up. Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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Marlona Sky
D00M. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:02:00 -
[2]
What is so special about fitting them to Angel ships?
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:02:00 -
[3]
are you seriously whining about a module that uses a midslot and can be used once every 30 seconds which might/will make it possible to escape from your FOTM Dramiel?
Here's a tip, use a web on the target and before they can warp away (as they have to get up to warp speed again) retarget them and tackle again. Otherwise bring friends or fit ECCM.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Morel Nova
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Marlona Sky What is so special about fitting them to Angel ships?
they already have speed to escape everything other than ceptors/dramiels and plenty of midslots. vagabond for example cant do this because of midslot count. Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:14:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 12/04/2010 09:15:44
Originally by: Morel Nova it just doesnt have a viable counter
counter? ECM burst IS a counter against your tackle already, nothing wrong with that.
A working counter is a good counter, maybe CCP should modify the warp scrambler to chance based module, how you feel about that?
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Morel Nova
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Marko Riva are you seriously whining about a module that uses a midslot and can be used once every 30 seconds which might/will make it possible to escape from your FOTM Dramiel?
Here's a tip, use a web on the target and before they can warp away (as they have to get up to warp speed again) retarget them and tackle again. Otherwise bring friends or fit ECCM.
ECCM on my ceptor? seriously? still this only pulls jam chance down to like 70-80% Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:34:00 -
[7]
The module itself is just fine on non-angel ships.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Morel Nova
Originally by: Marko Riva are you seriously whining about a module that uses a midslot and can be used once every 30 seconds which might/will make it possible to escape from your FOTM Dramiel?
Here's a tip, use a web on the target and before they can warp away (as they have to get up to warp speed again) retarget them and tackle again. Otherwise bring friends or fit ECCM.
ECCM on my ceptor? seriously? still this only pulls jam chance down to like 70-80%
You whine about Cyna's using a burst "because they have the midslot", you have enormous speed and can easily devote a low slot to ECCM using that same "they have the free slots for it".
Instead you whine about someone getting away from your FOTM ship, or rather have a CHANCE to get away once every 30 seconds. If you don't want it to happen bring a rapier friend, fit that eccm or bring more than one tackler.
Your posting is awful.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Morel Nova
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: Morel Nova
Originally by: Marko Riva are you seriously whining about a module that uses a midslot and can be used once every 30 seconds which might/will make it possible to escape from your FOTM Dramiel?
Here's a tip, use a web on the target and before they can warp away (as they have to get up to warp speed again) retarget them and tackle again. Otherwise bring friends or fit ECCM.
ECCM on my ceptor? seriously? still this only pulls jam chance down to like 70-80%
You whine about Cyna's using a burst "because they have the midslot", you have enormous speed and can easily devote a low slot to ECCM using that same "they have the free slots for it".
Instead you whine about someone getting away from your FOTM ship, or rather have a CHANCE to get away once every 30 seconds. If you don't want it to happen bring a rapier friend, fit that eccm or bring more than one tackler.
Your posting is awful.
Keep it civilized, I'm just trying to make an important point here. A lowslot ECCM is even weaker, and even less viable on a solo fit like my dramiel. Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:46:00 -
[10]
It's an escape module and serves the same purpose as ecm drone spam does. Has an insane cap cost, long cycle time and only break locks. Dangerous module to use anywhere except in null-sec due to possibility of accidental aggro.
It is a very annoying module to be hit with for sure, I almost always think the enemy entered warp when lock breaks .. takes a few seconds to realise what happened. A bit surprised that it hasn't seen much use until now since it is one of the few modules that has never changed and remained viable throughout.
A change that might be warranted is to give it a much more visible effect as it is very difficult to see currently (ie. I have never seen it).
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:47:00 -
[11]
Then simply agree that you chose to solo, chose to not fit against ECM and that ships actually might get away from you. I know this is a difficult concept and people should just stop moving, disable their modules and accept death when you tackle them, especially when they fly a FOTM ship (just like you do).
and I stand by my point, this thread is awful.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Kimura Masahiko
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Marko Riva Edited by: Marko Riva on 12/04/2010 09:53:30
Also: ONE OF YOUR CYNABAL LOSSES WHERE YOU FIT ECM BURST. Get out!
The thing is when an overpowered new FOTM like this comes along you can either whine on the forums and never fight the ship + fit in question again, or you can get in on the fun before the inevitable nerf. Check out my sig its pretty cool |
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:14:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 12/04/2010 10:14:07
Originally by: Kimura Masahiko
Originally by: Marko Riva Edited by: Marko Riva on 12/04/2010 09:53:30
Also: ONE OF YOUR CYNABAL LOSSES WHERE YOU FIT ECM BURST. Get out!
The thing is when an overpowered new FOTM like this comes along you can either whine on the forums and never fight the ship + fit in question again, or you can get in on the fun before the inevitable nerf.
Exactly, either make a well constructed (non whining) post about it OR use it till it gets changed, but not both and especially not if you tend to fly overpowered dualprop Dramiels (which are WAY more in need of a nerf than ECM burst) yourself.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Kimura Masahiko
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:19:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Marko Riva Edited by: Marko Riva on 12/04/2010 10:14:07
Originally by: Kimura Masahiko
Originally by: Marko Riva Edited by: Marko Riva on 12/04/2010 09:53:30
Also: ONE OF YOUR CYNABAL LOSSES WHERE YOU FIT ECM BURST. Get out!
The thing is when an overpowered new FOTM like this comes along you can either whine on the forums and never fight the ship + fit in question again, or you can get in on the fun before the inevitable nerf.
Exactly, either make a well constructed (non whining) post about it OR use it till it gets changed, but not both and especially not if you tend to fly overpowered dualprop Dramiels (which are WAY more in need of a nerf than ECM burst) yourself.
Ha! Spoken like someone who doesn't have a clue. If you think the dual prop dramiel is bad, wait until you're face to face with one of the Warp Core Stab fits that are becoming popular.
The ecm burst cynabal is arguably for more powerful though, not only is it a nightmare to catch with its frigate like agility and speed, it then has an absurb "GTFO Button" in the form of its ecm burst. Far better than any dual prop dramiel could even dream of. Why bother trying to afterburn your way clear of tackle when you can just hit a button and you're gone? Check out my sig its pretty cool |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:23:00 -
[15]
ECM burst works as designed - breaking locks for GTFO!!
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Morel Nova
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:31:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Morel Nova on 12/04/2010 10:31:24
Originally by: Marko Riva Edited by: Marko Riva on 12/04/2010 09:53:30
Also: ONE OF YOUR CYNABAL LOSSES WHERE YOU FIT ECM BURST. Get out!
yes i died once inside a drag bubble, because I was dualboxing and trying to save my alt at the same time. not sure what you are trying to prove, I admit I fly them myself. I mean why limit yourself when they are so powerful? also its the only way to show CCP that it needs to be looked at for balancing purposes. Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Cpt Branko The module itself is just fine on non-angel ships.
angel ships are OP not the module. /thread
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:53:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 12/04/2010 10:55:29 I like the ~elite PVPer~ touch, the truth is that you're still pointing fingers at something being overpowered while a) flying them yourself and b) flying overpowered dualprop Dramiels. Appearantly the only one "allowed" to whine about them is Intigo, as he chooses to not use them.
Again, ECM burst IS chance based (although if you're solo and not sporting ECCM the chance is rather high, but that's a choice, if you can fit WCS on dramiels you can also fit ECCM while trying to lure in cynabals), on a 30 second timer and you can relock instantly. If you KNOW you're fighting a ship that might have ECM burst simply spam the "target lock" button and hit scram again when neccesarily.
Besides, some targets may actually get away from you. I know this is very unfair and all and they should just accept death but it happens. Imo, they should rethink all Angel faction ships because they're rediculous atm.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:58:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 12/04/2010 10:58:45
Originally by: Morel Nova
Powerful E-War should be reserved for dedicated ships, and the Burst should only really be viable on the scorpion, not on a 4km/s cruiser.
you rant about non-dedicated ECM ships fitting ECM burst while flying a frigate faster than every interceptor(dedicated ships) ingame??
The dramiel requires a nerf, not ECM burst.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:01:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cpt Branko The module itself is just fine on non-angel ships.
How would you go about executing a nerf to it's powers on angel boats then (where it undoubtedly deserves one)? ----------------------------------------------- www.eve-arena.com
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Morel Nova
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 12/04/2010 10:58:45
Originally by: Morel Nova
Powerful E-War should be reserved for dedicated ships, and the Burst should only really be viable on the scorpion, not on a 4km/s cruiser.
you rant about non-dedicated ECM ships fitting ECM burst while flying a frigate faster than every interceptor(dedicated ships) ingame??
The dramiel requires a nerf, not ECM burst.
the dramiel isnt the issue here. I'm talking about cynabals. ECM bursts are even more efficent against ceptors. although I have seen burst dramiels about also, they are pretty nasty, but the lower cap on them makes using the module a lot less efficient. my taranis or stiletto would have the same problem. Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:05:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/04/2010 11:07:12
Originally by: Morel Nova the dramiel isnt the issue here. I'm talking about cynabals. ECM bursts are even more efficent against ceptors. although I have seen burst dramiels about also, they are pretty nasty, but the lower cap on them makes using the module a lot less efficient. my taranis or stiletto would have the same problem.
I hear wcs + burst fit Dramael is fun
But yeah, I can see how the thing is just OP on the Cynabal, it's just that the module has so far never really been a problem, since a lot of the speed ships couldn't fit it without gimping themselves because of midslots, and slow ships aren't that hard to kill even with one. I'd really say it's more of a Cynabal issue then anything.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
JASON W0RTHING
future of humankind Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:10:00 -
[23]
I just want you to think for a tiny, eensy, weensy, little second about what said Cynabal pilot is sacrificing to fit said ECM burst.
You may view my kb on battleclinic. It will confirm my statement here that I am in fact one of the worst pvpers in the game. I am however a leet theorycrafter and surprisingly accurate parrot of more experienced pvpers. Hence, while you may contest my post, if you do so without logic and with more killboard finger-pointing I will proceed to make you look like a r3tard with my superior forumfu.
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Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:12:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/04/2010 11:07:12
Originally by: Morel Nova the dramiel isnt the issue here. I'm talking about cynabals. ECM bursts are even more efficent against ceptors. although I have seen burst dramiels about also, they are pretty nasty, but the lower cap on them makes using the module a lot less efficient. my taranis or stiletto would have the same problem.
I hear wcs + burst fit Dramael is fun
But yeah, I can see how the thing is just OP on the Cynabal, it's just that the module has so far never really been a problem, since a lot of the speed ships couldn't fit it without gimping themselves because of midslots, and slow ships aren't that hard to kill even with one. I'd really say it's more of a Cynabal issue then anything.
But how would you nerf the ECM Burst fit Cyna without gimping "less OP" (albeit good) regular fits? ----------------------------------------------- www.eve-arena.com
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:15:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 12/04/2010 11:17:50
Originally by: Raimo
But how would you nerf the ECM Burst fit Cyna without gimping "less OP" (albeit good) regular fits?
I have no idea, honestly.
I get this feeling that CCP will do the usual thing and just nerf Angel ships with a heavy hand because of all the drama they're creating, which would be a shame.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.04.12 11:20:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 12/04/2010 11:21:40 the "issue" is you're ranting about legitimate tactics for denying you sure kills with your op dramiel. I dont see something wrong with that, if you can fit a warp scrambler on every non-dedicated ship (anything but interceptor) there is no reason why one should not be able to fit counters for that. Since speed is not working for getting out of your scramble range, ECM burst is a better choice. Accept that.
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Morel Nova
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.12 12:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Robert Caldera Edited by: Robert Caldera on 12/04/2010 11:21:40 the "issue" is you're ranting about legitimate tactics for denying you sure kills with your op dramiel. I dont see something wrong with that, if you can fit a warp scrambler on every non-dedicated ship (anything but interceptor) there is no reason why one should not be able to fit counters for that. Since speed is not working for getting out of your scramble range, ECM burst is a better choice. Accept that.
I regret mentioning dramiels at all, stop trying to derail our balance discussion that is limited to cynabals & the ecm burst module. as I said all frigs face the same problem and there are a lot of other dramiel/frig threads to moan in Reward small gang/solo pvp!
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foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.12 12:19:00 -
[28]
Not overpowered.
Carry on, nothing to see here folks.
Well, failOP tears are kind off nice... _______________________ We come for our people! |
Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.04.12 12:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Morel Nova
I regret mentioning dramiels at all, stop trying to derail our balance discussion that is limited to cynabals & the ecm burst module. as I said all frigs face the same problem and there are a lot of other dramiel/frig threads to moan in
well, my argument is valid for all other frigs also. If you can fit a point, the victim is free to fit a counter for getting rid of your point - he sacrifices a mid slot and does not even get a success guarantee for that. Its all right.
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.12 12:35:00 -
[30]
Edited by: lookatzebirdie on 12/04/2010 12:35:47 Not that I don't respect genos and love their vids but i just lost a little respect for them when they used the "we are 1337 pvpers and your a noob so we must be right" argument instead of actually making a point. Yes WCS drams and Burst Cynabals are LOL:OP but it's because the ships themselves are bordering on LOL:OP already. They need reigning in A LITTLE BIT and then all will be well. If the Dram can get away with using a WCS tho it shows that needs it's scan res srsly nerf batted.
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