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Zos Tarkross
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.04.29 20:22:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Leonard Harvey
I think the main pert of trading is finding a strong balance between profit per day and time spent. From what I have read "burnout" is a real threat to traders managing to many orders in a busy hub will surely take its toll to even the heartiest trader
I agree. I think quite a few activities in EvE, whether missioning or 0.01 updating, become too much like work when run continuously for hours/days on end.
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Leonard Harvey
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Posted - 2010.05.01 06:39:00 -
[62]
Hi
After a few more days (and even less time online) I have got to 38mil ISK. Been trading again in Ships as they are easy to monitor the .01 ISK'ers as they don't move much volume and the prices don't change much. Good profits currently, 2mil per ship or there abouts.
Hope all of the others on this challenge are doing just as well.
Len
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hinch
Gallente Legio Victor Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2010.05.01 19:17:00 -
[63]
never done station trading so thought i'd give it a try i did 3 hours thursday 2 hours friday and 10 mins here and there today as I've been busy working.
starting with an alt with starter skills only and starter 5k I'm currently upto 3 mill outstanding orders buy and 1.3 mill outstanding sells and 2 mill in my account so its going quite well atm i'm enjoying it at least makes a change for me Furious Angels Research and Development. Fully researched BPO's, BPC's and T2 invented BPC's to order. FA BPO and BPC Shop |
Zos Tarkross
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.05.02 03:21:00 -
[64]
Originally by: hinch never done station trading so thought i'd give it a try i did 3 hours thursday 2 hours friday and 10 mins here and there today as I've been busy working.
starting with an alt with starter skills only and starter 5k I'm currently upto 3 mill outstanding orders buy and 1.3 mill outstanding sells and 2 mill in my account so its going quite well atm i'm enjoying it at least makes a change for me
hinch - that's a nice runup - do you mind saying what system you are in?
As for me, much less dramatic growth than you have seen, but as reported in the other thread I started, I have made some progress with alts in Hek and Oursulaert...
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hinch
Gallente Legio Victor Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2010.05.02 08:49:00 -
[65]
I'm in jita 4-4 (picked because thats where my new char market monitoring alt is)
Furious Angels Research and Development. Fully researched BPO's, BPC's and T2 invented BPC's to order. FA BPO and BPC Shop |
Lexi Auran
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Posted - 2010.05.02 11:16:00 -
[66]
This is a very interesting thread, i have to say thats impressive turning 5k into a 100m for a couple of hours work in just over a week.
Are you using any trade applications like EMMA? or the Eve Trade Tool?
Lexi
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hinch
Gallente Legio Victor Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2010.05.02 15:42:00 -
[67]
I use a self made tool for tracking buy/sells + give me market stats based off exports I do once an hour, got it set to show me largest movers and largest profit margin items all on one page rather than having to select separate items like in the eve ui means i can quickly see what I need to react to and get buy orders up for fast and what is good for bulk longer term sales. Furious Angels Research and Development. Fully researched BPO's, BPC's and T2 invented BPC's to order. FA BPO and BPC Shop |
Leonard Harvey
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Posted - 2010.05.02 20:53:00 -
[68]
Hi all
I am nearly half way there now, 47mil this evening. I have only been on-line about 1 hour per night for the past 3/4 nights so not done much trading but I seem to have found a very few items to shift so been working them.
Only realised today the target for the challenge was 100mil so its not too far now. I have some good plans for when I can leave station again, I have a freighter alt so going to throw up some buy orders in my previous mission system where there are literally NO orders for certain items and try and exploit that as much as possible and then ship them into Jita for nice mark ups.
Grats to the two that have completed it already :-) Good job.
Len
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Dark HicQuaVideeum
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Posted - 2010.05.03 14:01:00 -
[69]
i also started this but not just with 5k, i created a new character and finished the business tutorial, btw what are you guys trading, since so far the most profitable thing i have being able to trade in jita is ammo which moves in good quantities but low profit.
_____________________________ Dark Designs. For all your needs in Web Services |
hinch
Gallente Legio Victor Requiem-Aeternam
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Posted - 2010.05.03 14:58:00 -
[70]
ammo is a good start Furious Angels Research and Development. Fully researched BPO's, BPC's and T2 invented BPC's to order. FA BPO and BPC Shop |
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Empress Shai
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Posted - 2010.05.03 18:15:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Grayclay @haze:
Yeah, I get that, but I'm also worried that paying someone will cut too much into my courier contracts. If I could make 5mil by selling 20 items, who is going to move it at a price that wouldn't cut into that meager amount? Would people really accept a courier for 500k isk?
Yes, they will. If the collateral is 20m and the payout is 500k, and it isn't in lower than .5, they go freakin fast. There was a piece of salvage I couriered that was .01mk3 (or something small enough for a shuttle), and I did about 4 of those w/ PO of 500k, mind you with 2nd account, bought a shuttle for 7k, did 4 of them, made 2m. Nice ROI imo, and it was fast and easy. Now, mind you, dealing in volumes of over 30k, the PO is better at about 100k isk per jump, but you can go as low as 80k/jump. If you have a higher collateral, do it in volumes of about 100k mk3 or so (average Orca capacity ideally), and you can do it at 130k/jump (FROM and TO total hops). Ideally, up it for the systems that are in lower sec, as to you never know who is up for what.
I do these from time to time, as a change of pace more so than for profit.
Own the ship [x] Have collateral coverage [x] ???? [x] Profit [x]
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Zos Tarkross
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.05.05 01:54:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Empress Shai
{re couriers}: Yes, they will.
when you do a courier contract for someone, can you see what all the items are that you are shipping for them?
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nightslasher
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Posted - 2010.05.05 05:24:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Zos Tarkross
Originally by: Empress Shai
{re couriers}: Yes, they will.
when you do a courier contract for someone, can you see what all the items are that you are shipping for them?
typically no.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.05.05 07:30:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 05/05/2010 07:33:55
Originally by: nightslasher
Originally by: Zos Tarkross
when you do a courier contract for someone, can you see what all the items are that you are shipping for them?
typically no.
typically yes.
After accepting the contract you can view the items inside the package without breaking the wrap. If you see that item value > collateral + reward, you know what to do
An exception would be (I think) a courier package that is sent via a second courier contract.
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Empress Shai
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Posted - 2010.05.05 14:44:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Empress Shai on 05/05/2010 14:45:34
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 05/05/2010 07:33:55
Originally by: nightslasher
Originally by: Zos Tarkross
when you do a courier contract for someone, can you see what all the items are that you are shipping for them?
typically no.
typically yes.
After accepting the contract you can view the items inside the package without breaking the wrap. If you see that item value > collateral + reward, you know what to do
An exception would be (I think) a courier package that is sent via a second courier contract.
Can this be done... interesting if so, due to I think a package within a package makes it unscanable, according to a EVE Wiki article I read about BPOs being in a POS structure makes them unscannable something or other(you offline the research lab, unanchor it w/ BPO in it, transport it.) Will look into.
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Gaius Dukat
The Prohibition
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Posted - 2010.05.06 07:55:00 -
[76]
Well I decided to give this a try as well, after 3 days of working the market, I managed to get to 5mill
However, I must of lost the knack or something, made an extra 500k in 2 days... (albeit that i've not given this 100% of my attention)
with 4.9mill worth of buy orders out there, hopefully I can turn it around and start making profit on my goods
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Zos Tarkross
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.05.07 03:14:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Gaius Dukat Well I decided to give this a try as well, after 3 days of working the market, I managed to get to 5mill
Good stuff Gaius - are you another "start in Jita and trade like mad" guy - or are you basing out of somewhere smaller?
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Grayclay
Caldari The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.05.07 03:43:00 -
[78]
Well I tried a few courier contracts, and they all worked out rather nicely, got everything i needed moved within 24 hours of buying it. I was surprised, especially when people did it for <300k, but I guess moving 100m3 4 jumps isnt bad for that money. I'm more worried that the reward would cut into the profits on such small shipments.
I can't decide between Jita and a smaller, regional hub. In jita **** moves fast, but the margins are so much smaller, and theres so much more competition on EVERYTHING. I figure in a Regional hub, you have less volume and less movement, but much more spread in margins because less people are playing the market.
What do you guys think? I know volume > margin in alot of cases, as 25k over 1000 orders is better than 250,000 over 10. But it also takes longer to accrue that much volume.
And what do you guys think of regional trading? That is, setting up BOs for 20-40 jumps (or region), and then selling stuff where you get it, so you still never have to leave station?
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Pycke
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Posted - 2010.05.07 13:01:00 -
[79]
Cheers mate! good post! I would love to see some kind of day by day guide for us newbie trade wannabe!
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Gaius Dukat
The Prohibition
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Posted - 2010.05.07 13:59:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Zos Tarkross
Originally by: Gaius Dukat Well I decided to give this a try as well, after 3 days of working the market, I managed to get to 5mill
Good stuff Gaius - are you another "start in Jita and trade like mad" guy - or are you basing out of somewhere smaller?
Start in Jita and trade like mad. Obviously with the number of people doing this in there, goods are now starting to become less profitable, so making a profit won't be as easy as before... but perseverance!
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Leonard Harvey
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Posted - 2010.05.08 00:29:00 -
[81]
I'm currently just over halfway to 100mil. Been very busy (and ill) over the last week so not been up to much, had a problem with some stock that just wouldn't shift and also a buy order I was too stubborn to remove but it just wasn't getting filled even though I have been top order for hours and hours, no one seemed to sell (its still there now but fortunately other stuff sold to give me back some more liquid ISK) .
I've now been able to diversify my orders much more and also decided to sit into ammo again as although the profits are small the volume makes up for the loss so some reasonably sized buy orders up at the moment so hopefully they get filled soon.
Len
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Yiulian
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Posted - 2010.05.08 11:34:00 -
[82]
I've been reading this thread with some interest, I discovered it shortly after I started trading in Jita myself about 9 days ago.
I'm a new player, my char is about 12 days old now, but an old time MMO player which I guess helps to cut down the learning curve somewhat, even though it is still slightly reminiscent of climbing mount everest ;-)
Anyway, even though I'm not following the rules of the OP since I don't much fancy sitting in a station all day and want to experience as much of the different activities that the game as to offer as possible, I thought I'd put in a post as well to show my perspective on this.
I started out with about 1M that I made running the tutorials and such. After looking around the market for a bit, I quickly found some potentially interesting goods with upwards of 70% profit margin for a 3-5 jump flight.
During the first few days my profits were as follows( figures taken from Eve Trader):
2,2M on 3.2M turnover 7.1M on 13.3M turnover 10M on 17.4M turnover 19.5M on 38.3M turnover 28.3M on 54.8M turnover
So not a bad start I think, roughly doubling my profits each day. This was done trading low volume, high profit goods with about 2 hauls a day and some fairly involved 0.01 isk trading. After this I started to dabble in buy orders a bit, mainly after reading this thread but the 10-20% profit margins are still too low at this point, given my available capital. This capital did allow me to start trading some more expensive goods with really good profit margins (some over 100%) so on the next day I increased my profits again, even though I didn't even do that much:
41.6M on 87M turnover
Now after this my figures get a bit skewed since I started investing more in my character as it was time to train expensive skills, such as the tier2 learning skills and the more expensive trading skills so I could get the holy grail of trading skills: daytrading. Since I don't sit in Jita all the time, having to fly back there every hour or two to modify my orders is a pain in the ass and takes up a lot of game time. Now I can just do it while warping from gate to gate or in/out of deadspace, or even while mining.
I also made a very painful mistake. I managed to fill a nice buy order for a ship, which I then proceeded to put up for sale at a tidy profit. However, while my gf was talking to me I modified the price, wasn't paying attention to the warning and ended up putting it up for about 1.6 billion, costing me 16 million in broker fees. *ouch*
For the last few days I've been spending a lot (skills, gear, implants), but taking that into account my profits have been hovering around 40-55M a day (around 20M a day nett). For a day or two this week my items weren't really moving and were getting a lot of competition. As of right now I have around 50M in cash (going on a buy run soon) with 75M in sell orders (expecting to sell at those prices) and 5M in escrow, so a cool 130M.This does include a couple of mill from mission running, but that's peanuts compared to the trading.
Some thoughts:
0.01 isk trading gets boring VERY quickly, especially on the weekends when there seems to be no end of traders.
Don't talk to your partner when you play EVE :-)
There are funny fluctuations in sales amounts at Jita that aren't visible in market history. Items that sell like hotcakes one day won't sell at all the next day, even though the amounts in market history stay fairly stable. I guess some days you just get people who can't be bothered to fly three hops to save a million or two.
People who come in and undercut massively, turning a 70-80% profit item that I've just bought 20-25 of into a 10-20% profit item **** me off :)
I wish making money was this easy irl, I'd be Hugh Heffner.
Anyway that's it for now. Hope this inspires some new players to give it a go. It probably won't make you your Plex within 14 days, but it's a good start.
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Zos Tarkross
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.05.08 17:46:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Yiulian I've been reading this thread with some interest, I discovered it shortly after I started trading in Jita myself about 9 days ago. ...
41.6M on 87M turnover
sheesh - you guys put me to shame. I'm going to have to hit you up in game and beg for hints...
I am struggling to multiply from 2-3 M ISK up to the 10 M mark... In the other thread I started I have made an audacious (for me) play to try to get to at least the 6 M level... Still working on it...
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Gaius Dukat
The Prohibition
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Posted - 2010.05.08 19:38:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Zos Tarkross
Originally by: Yiulian I've been reading this thread with some interest, I discovered it shortly after I started trading in Jita myself about 9 days ago. ...
41.6M on 87M turnover
sheesh - you guys put me to shame. I'm going to have to hit you up in game and beg for hints...
I am struggling to multiply from 2-3 M ISK up to the 10 M mark... In the other thread I started I have made an audacious (for me) play to try to get to at least the 6 M level... Still working on it...
Yeah struggling myself, but then the market is getting so competitive with everyone doing this.
However, i'm taking some time out of the market to work on my trading skills and pvp with my main
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Corcyrus Endymion
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Posted - 2010.05.08 20:47:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 08/05/2010 20:47:47
Originally by: Zos Tarkross
Originally by: Yiulian I've been reading this thread with some interest, I discovered it shortly after I started trading in Jita myself about 9 days ago. ...
41.6M on 87M turnover
sheesh - you guys put me to shame. I'm going to have to hit you up in game and beg for hints...
I am struggling to multiply from 2-3 M ISK up to the 10 M mark... In the other thread I started I have made an audacious (for me) play to try to get to at least the 6 M level... Still working on it...
Try this: Go to Jita, open up the market tab for ammo. Find 5 or 6 ammo types that have a nice turn over per day and a nice spread between buy and sell orders ( think 30-50%). In all of these 6 ammo types, open a buy order for 1/6th of your isk (do please make sure that this means you have a bid order that is worth a maximum of 1/3 of the average daily traffic.. and this is the absolute top) for each of these ammo types. Vigorously .01 isk. Once you have decent stacks of these items, put up sell orders for them and vigorously 0.01 isk those. Rinse and repeat. Going from 1m to 1b is the easy part, going from 1b to 1kb is were it gets hairy!
fakeedit: in order to **** of blade, you can even convo me when Im online. Ill chat you up on some stuff if you like, for the awesome price of 0 isk :)
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Zos Tarkross
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.05.10 01:59:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion
Try this: Go to Jita, open up the market tab for ammo...
fakeedit: in order to **** of blade, you can even convo me when Im online. Ill chat you up on some stuff if you like, for the awesome price of 0 isk :)
for the first advice - thanks - I may try that at some point. As part of my current experiment with the 2 alts, I had one of the conditions that I *wouldn't* go to Jita. That may have been silly or irrational. Anyway, one of them is in Dodi right now but from one of the "quarterly" economic newsletters, sounds like 50% of trade is in Jita, meaning maybe only 10-15% in Dodi...
And regarding your offer of convo for advice - great. Once I learn what I can from you (having "bought low"), I'm going to turn around and 0.01 ISK Mr. "Blade". My course will be only 299,999,999.99. And I'll even talk to people for two hours, instead of just one. Can't beat that deal Hope you're cool with that - lol
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Corcyrus Endymion
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Posted - 2010.05.10 18:04:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 10/05/2010 18:05:12
Originally by: Zos Tarkross
Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion
Try this: Go to Jita, open up the market tab for ammo...
fakeedit: in order to **** of blade, you can even convo me when Im online. Ill chat you up on some stuff if you like, for the awesome price of 0 isk :)
for the first advice - thanks - I may try that at some point. As part of my current experiment with the 2 alts, I had one of the conditions that I *wouldn't* go to Jita. That may have been silly or irrational. Anyway, one of them is in Dodi right now but from one of the "quarterly" economic newsletters, sounds like 50% of trade is in Jita, meaning maybe only 10-15% in Dodi...
And regarding your offer of convo for advice - great. Once I learn what I can from you (having "bought low"), I'm going to turn around and 0.01 ISK Mr. "Blade". My course will be only 299,999,999.99. And I'll even talk to people for two hours, instead of just one. Can't beat that deal Hope you're cool with that - lol
Edit: forum seems to have eaten my message.
Feel free to convo me, if I'm not doing other stuff I'll answer within seconds
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Thanatta
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Posted - 2010.05.11 16:17:00 -
[88]
I think I might just give this a go, but with a twist:
My trading "base" will be Motsu (the Caldari Navy L-4 mission hub, more commonly known as "griefer-heaven," or "screaming ****hole full of asshats and myopic, self-righteous care-bears.").
I submit that if you can't make money on ammo's and loot-drop module-flipping there, then you can't make money, period.
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Chaster Mareel
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Posted - 2010.05.12 15:23:00 -
[89]
Started by selling all my hulk miners (cost IRL high when selling 5, but ratio made VS buying PLEX... much higher).
Anyhow, about to start with one character with about 100m, and see how it goes.
This is an interesting prospect and tbh got me interested in market side of EVE, mostly because it is interesting and seems challenging.
Have fun all, I know I will :D
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Yiulian
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Posted - 2010.05.16 21:19:00 -
[90]
Get Paid, any updates on your status? I'm curious as to how you're going.
I'm doing prety well but I've moved quite far from the basics of this thread now. Decided to get a second acc last week as this would open up some more profitable opportunities.
Starting of trading between Motsu and Jita but found the volume too low and not dependable enough for my tastes. Will go back to that once I have a bit more bankroll as the relative quiet also means less 0.01 isking which is a relief.
Decided to change to Amarr with great succes. Despite not playing a lot last week and this weekend due to RL constraints, I've managed to get up near 450M and am still seeing good returns. Tbh one of the problems right now is that I can't keep the bulk of my money invested continually so I'm losing out a little bit there. Even though the margins per item are good, I'm not seeing a 30% daily increase of my capital since at times quite a bit of it is simply sitting in my wallet.
Game on! :)
Also thanks to Corcyrus for some valuable advice.
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