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Mr Chili Palmer
InterSun Freelance Moon Warriors
51
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Posted - 2012.07.08 10:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
As above, its time for a new ship. i play pve am caldari and use missiles. my drake is still doing what i need it to do 9survive) however i am now able to jump into lvl4 missions. i have done the training and can now choose raven or tengu. my main source of income is from missions/loot/salvage so speed blitzing the mission is not important to me, killing everything and having a good tank is. i have over 3 mths training before i can consider a golem
i am drawn towards a raven, but would like somemore opinions and fits if possible
cheers. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
281
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Posted - 2012.07.08 11:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
A Navy Scorpion is essentially a grown up Drake. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
15
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Posted - 2012.07.08 14:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Personally I would go for the Tengu as it is so adaptable. It is however expensive for a mission boat, but it will pay for itself many times over.
Don't be tempted to pimp fit it - especially if you mission in a large mission hub. T2 fit is more than enough for level 4 missions.
I dont have my eve computer with me at the moment but Battleclinic has a lot fo fits for the Tengu for both PVE and PVP.
Advise you check them all out and decide which fit would suit you best.
Good luck! My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
113
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Posted - 2012.07.08 15:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:A Navy Scorpion is essentially a grown up Drake. Navy Scorp is essentially upgraded Raven.
If you try to do your omni passive shield tank on Navy Scorp, you are going to die. Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first! |
Metolz
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.07.08 16:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
You might want to check out this thread I made, though a slightly different topic the points various people made there might help you decide what you would like to fly. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
281
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Posted - 2012.07.08 16:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:A Navy Scorpion is essentially a grown up Drake. Navy Scorp is essentially upgraded Raven. If you try to do your omni passive shield tank on Navy Scorp, you are going to die.
Oh come now, surely you can see how one could call it a grown up Drake.
5% Resistances per level and a DPS bonus, just like the Drake.
Even if you don't fit them the same, the beefyness is the same. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
113
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Posted - 2012.07.08 16:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Caleidascope wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:A Navy Scorpion is essentially a grown up Drake. Navy Scorp is essentially upgraded Raven. If you try to do your omni passive shield tank on Navy Scorp, you are going to die. Oh come now, surely you can see how one could call it a grown up Drake.5% Resistances per level and a DPS bonus, just like the Drake. Even if you don't fit them the same, the beefyness is the same. I can't. I am matari pilot, I used matari gun boats for L1-3, then I cross trained to caldari bs. My experience was Raven, then Navy Raven, then Navy Scorp, at which point I kicked myself for wasting isk on Navy Raven. If I knew back then what I know now, I would have gone Raven, then Navy Scorp.
I got my first drake after I spend 6 or more months flying ravens. The only thing I use my drakes for are: exploration and ratting.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first! |
Metolz
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.07.08 16:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
*Please delete, double post* |
Bill Serkoff2
Tachyon Technology
21
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Posted - 2012.07.08 17:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Raven is a ship very well-suited to missions. Anything to get rid of that Drake.
[Raven, rav1] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Shield Boost Amplifier II Thermic Dissipation Field II Kinetic Deflection Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Target Painter II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Switch to T1 to taste, drones, mission specific hardeners, et cetera. Visit channel 'HelpMyMission' for more help with mission stuff. |
Mr Chili Palmer
InterSun Freelance Moon Warriors
51
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Posted - 2012.07.08 18:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
many thanks for the replies and link. i managed my 1st lvl4 today in my drake and survived without any difficulties, lost 14 drones though hob 1's mission was angel extravaganza. i must next time remember to loot as i go took my about 3 hours and some of the wreck's had gone :( |
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BobFenner
Black Hole Runners
15
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Posted - 2012.07.08 18:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
People still salvage missions? I thought that you made more ISK just blitzing level 4's nowadays? My missus thinks of EvE as 'the other woman'. :) |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
241
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Posted - 2012.07.08 19:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mr Chili Palmer wrote:many thanks for the replies and link. i managed my 1st lvl4 today in my drake and survived without any difficulties, lost 14 drones though hob 1's mission was angel extravaganza. i must next time remember to loot as i go took my about 3 hours and some of the wreck's had gone :( three hours is wwaaaaay too long. just think about how many lvl3s you would have finished in that time. as for ship selection: the tengu is arguably the best missile ship in the game. you can fly against guristas, serpentis, angels or drones and rip through battlecruisers in two volleys. it's also relatively cheap; you can get a full fit under 1bil. just invest in at least two caldari BCUs and you're god. that said, the shortest route to semidecent lvl4 running is training for the raven navy issue. skill-wise it is a dead end because you won't be using cruise missiles or caldari battleship skills for anything else, but it will get you your lvl4 income in a relatively short time. scorpion navy is also nice, but the raven will outperform it as soon as your tank skills are anything but horrible.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
405
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Posted - 2012.07.08 19:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Caleidascope wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:A Navy Scorpion is essentially a grown up Drake. Navy Scorp is essentially upgraded Raven. If you try to do your omni passive shield tank on Navy Scorp, you are going to die. Oh come now, surely you can see how one could call it a grown up Drake. 5% Resistances per level and a DPS bonus, just like the Drake. Even if you don't fit them the same, the beefyness is the same.
Yeah, and minus the passive tank, or do you fit drake for active?
For bonus, let's list all ships with a resist and dps bonus and call them Drakes. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
113
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
BobFenner wrote:People still salvage missions? I thought that you made more ISK just blitzing level 4's nowadays? You only blitz if you want lp. If you want straight up isk, you kill everything.
Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat desert first! |
warzonetemp
Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji
5
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:Caleidascope wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:A Navy Scorpion is essentially a grown up Drake. Navy Scorp is essentially upgraded Raven. If you try to do your omni passive shield tank on Navy Scorp, you are going to die. Oh come now, surely you can see how one could call it a grown up Drake. 5% Resistances per level and a DPS bonus, just like the Drake. Even if you don't fit them the same, the beefyness is the same. Yeah, and minus the passive tank, or do you fit drake for active? For bonus, let's list all ships with a resist and dps bonus and call them Drakes.
My Nighthawk feels a bit strange being called a Drake, even though its basically a Ferox with missiles |
Red zeon
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
3
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Posted - 2012.07.09 04:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:Tor Gungnir wrote:A Navy Scorpion is essentially a grown up Drake. Navy Scorp is essentially upgraded Raven. If you try to do your omni passive shield tank on Navy Scorp, you are going to die.
no, a navy raven is essentially a upgraded raven :P |
Halete
Echoes of Korgoth Initiative
246
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Posted - 2012.07.09 05:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
On a bit of a tangent, your missus seems to be making mistake that EVE is the 'other' woman and not the foremost woman. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in. // Throwing one's hands up in the air and crying 'cal-matar nonsense!' seems to be the new dismissive these days when someone is being neither relevant nor dignified. |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
47
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Posted - 2012.07.09 05:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
You should go for a Tengu, a Tengu is a nice ship. That way you can keep using heavy missiles and NOT spend any skillpoints on cruise missiles or Caldari battleship training. Heavy missiles is a good skill to have, cruise missiles is not.
Once you have a good Tengu you start immediately crosstraining for projectile turrets and Minmatar battleship. And do what you should do if you like doing missions: get a Vargur or a Machariel. The Golem and also the Raven is just lackluster compared to those monsters. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Refuge of Hope Lemniskate
12
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Posted - 2012.07.09 06:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Yeah, and minus the passive tank, or do you fit drake for active? For bonus, let's list all ships with a resist and dps bonus and call them Drakes.
The key defining characteristic of a Drake isn't passive tank - the key characteristic is its excellent tank. Whether you fit it for passive tanking (missions) or buffer (pvp), you'll be in one of the best defended ships of its size. Likewise, Navy Scorpion is a ship more focused on tanking, with lots of medium slots, whereas the CNR's main advantage is one extra missile launcher, making it more ganky. Both SNI and CNR are upgrades of a normal Raven, just going in different directions, one for offense, one for defense.
As for which ship to go for - OP, you have to ask yourself what your long term plans are. Do you intend to do missions only or do you intend to move out, do other things as well?
Then again, I'd just get both myself. Tengu really shines in fights with lots of small targets and where speed is the key, while CNR shreds battleships to tiny bits. |
Mike Whiite
Keystone Industrial
58
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Posted - 2012.07.09 06:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
Scorpion Navy Issue is far out the cheapest option.
Tengu is about a Billion ISK, CNR about 700 ISK, SNI closer to 500 ISK.
Also there is less need to fit Faction or Ded Space modules on a SNI.
SNI is easer to fly on low skills, CNR is realy a High end BS.
Tengu is a fine choise but not because it trains so much easier or is shorter, not to you anyway, you are already a missile pilot so you'll be flying a BS faster than a tengu total training time will not differ to much.
My guess is you don't have Caldari Cruiser 5 wich is about 16 days on a perception willpower path. within that time only you'll have BS 4 and Cruise missiles 4 and are half about halfway with Cruise 5.
Guided Missile Precision is a must skill with Cruise missiles though.
I'd advice you to try a Raven first just to get used to the active tanking, take an SNI from there, CNR, Tengu are cool ships to pick up in a latter stage.
and if you're not blitzing I'd forget about the Tengu as a mission ship.
PS, Missions like Angel extra verganza are excelent Salvage missions, bring a Noctis though.
PPS, when starting lvl 4 in caldari space avoid the Extra Vaganza Bonus levels and Enemies Abound part 5
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Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians Iberians.
20
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Posted - 2012.07.09 07:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
The standard path after the Drake is Raven => SNI or CNR.
The SNI is safer, you will have more tank, and fitted with TP you will have also better damage application than in the CNR.
But, once you have enough skills, CNR will blizt missions faster.
Although SNI is way cheaper |
Mr Chili Palmer
InterSun Freelance Moon Warriors
51
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Cheers for the replies. I do have cal cruiser at lvl 5 I tried a raven out on The test server it seemed ok. I went to try a tenth but I was not able to Assemble it as I had to pick 5 things and was too tired to carry on. As for me I will stick with pve and carry on doing missions I only have 892 mil isk so cannot afford to buy the wrong ship. Maybe I will run my Sloth of a drake for a bit longer. Am working away from home this week so cannot play and this is all Written on my iPhone.
Cheers |
Zicon Shak'ra
Vacuo Anomalia
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 16:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mr Chili Palmer wrote:many thanks for the replies and link. i managed my 1st lvl4 today in my drake and survived without any difficulties, lost 14 drones though hob 1's mission was angel extravaganza. i must next time remember to loot as i go took my about 3 hours and some of the wreck's had gone :(
3 hours... lolwhat? |
Yabba Addict
Red Shift Enterprises
27
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Posted - 2012.07.10 01:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zicon Shak'ra wrote:Mr Chili Palmer wrote:many thanks for the replies and link. i managed my 1st lvl4 today in my drake and survived without any difficulties, lost 14 drones though hob 1's mission was angel extravaganza. i must next time remember to loot as i go took my about 3 hours and some of the wreck's had gone :( 3 hours... lolwhat?
Give the guy a break...first time doing a lvl 4, in a drake and it's AE.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
121
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Posted - 2012.07.10 03:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:You only blitz if you want lp. If you want straight up isk, you kill everything. and after you convert your lp to faction shinys and sell them you will have more isk than if you killed everything. Well that is if you are doing it right. Personally I'm in some strange middle ground.
Mike Whiite wrote:Scorpion Navy Issue is far out the cheapest option.
Tengu is about a Billion ISK, CNR about 700 ISK, SNI closer to 500 ISK.
Also there is less need to fit Faction or Ded Space modules on a SNI.
SNI is easer to fly on low skills, CNR is realy a High end BS
Prices are a bit off. the tengu with mission subs is ~586m, CNR is 414m, and navy scorp is 358m. the fits should more or less cost about the same for all three. honestly a meta 4 and tech 2 fit will work on any of them, and I wouldn't go beyond 500mil for fits on any (3 faction bcus and a nice booster).
cnr is a perfect low skill battleship, its what the isk farmers use on their month old pilots!
personally I'd take the CNR over the SNI any day! an extra launcher beats some extra resists for pretty much everything. when you are flying ganky there is so much less incoming damage you don't need the extra tank. if you want the extra resists to feel safe.. well imo just get a raven and insure it, because you are probably so green that a slight resist increase won't be enough to save your ship.
but for the next ship, since you have cruiser 5 grab a tengu, hopefully you have decent missile skills too, and then I'd plan for a gunboat. cnr is amazingly boring to fly, and it won't be all that much of an upgrade from the tengu. plus training cruise missiles seems to be a waste of time right now. which boat somewhat depends on where you mission/rat. tengu would be a good alternative ship to pretty much any marauder or faction bs |
Mike Whiite
Keystone Industrial
58
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Posted - 2012.07.10 10:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Prices are total prices,
and go ahead take an insurance on a Faction ship.
Ahh this discusion again.
Extra launcher is only more damage with High missile support skills and ded or faction modules to make space for launcher riggs and tp's, unless you run Lvl4 only holding battleships, which are few.
Extra mid slots and the tank mean you can fit more TP,s that will let you kill smaller ships a lot faster, the extra tank give syou space for a AB, that will make you faster, closing distances to the next accelaration gate.
then there is the micro management that is needed to actualy make great use of that DPS difference, or the difference starts realy counting on the volly difference, do you or don't you need an extra volly to destroy the ship yes or no.
Every time it's no, dps difference doesn't matter, unless you're micromanaging the S%& out of your mission running.
ISK Farmers run missions with several alts, doesnt matter +¡f the tank is low because the have a 1000 hps drake alt or a Logistics with them.
Run a low fit, low skill CNR, you'll be jumping out of several Gurista missions with jamming, wich cost more time.
The math is how many volly's do I need in total, how many times do I need to drop out, every volly you need extra on a smaller ship must be countered on the battleships.
there is a turning point, but it involves expensive modules and lots of skills, although the new Drone Damage link, might lower that turning point. |
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