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zoolkhan
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.22 12:40:00 -
[91]
cant be arsed to listen to all those transmissions.
for really slow thinkers, like merdaneth:
the war of providence is not over - its still a war zone. We have plenty of unfinished jobs there.
everyone with 1 or more braincells understand why we are "still NBSI" there, all those who dont understand this, dont deserve our attantion.
which means, i shouldnt have posted this *duh*
recruiting -forum
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Mattduk
Gallente Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.22 12:49:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Merdaneth Ms. Constantine, repeating untruths doesn't make them true.
Practise what you preach.
We must all hang together or most assuredly we shall hang separately. |
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2010.04.22 13:08:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 22/04/2010 13:08:31
Originally by: zoolkhan
for really slow thinkers, like merdaneth:
the war of providence is not over - its still a war zone. We have plenty of unfinished jobs there.
For poor readers like yourself:
Ushra'Khan never said: "we are NRDS, but we practice NBSI when in a warzone" when explaining why they were shooting neutrals in Providence and Catch before. They said "we shoot neutrals because they are indirectly supporting the slaver regime of CVA".
I'm not claiming your current policy is not sensible, I was merely wondering *why* you were still continuing with NBSI while your official reason had become invalid. Especially because you came out so strongly in favor of making Providence FreeSpace, which didn't fit at all with your NBSI stance.
It is however my belief that your originally stated reason ("we shoot neutrals in Providence because they are indirectly supporting the slavers") was simply a convenient political lie, while the real reason was that is was more effective for your strategic goals in the war against CVA and slavery just to attack everyone. It is not my fault that internally the Ushra'Khan forgot that they lied about it.
I never really believed your previous reason, but I do believe your current reason ("we practice NBSI when in a warzone"), because it makes much more sense for an outfit like Ushra'Khan. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Shiroi Okami
Gallente Mad Bombers
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Posted - 2010.04.22 13:26:00 -
[94]
Merdaneth I'm going to spell it out for you. You seem to have a hard time with the whole comprehension thing.
Providence, to UK, is a warzone. Who are Uk at war with? Both ideologically and physically?
CVA.
Are CVA and their supporters gone from providence?
No. Their stations are gone, they and their influence are not.
Will UK remain NBSI in providence until CVA and their influence has been removed completely from providence?
Yes.
As long as CVA and their supporters remain as such UK has no reason to revert to NRDS until ever last morsel of slaver and slaver supporter is nothing but dust in providence. So no, UK are not breaking their ROE, as has been stated many a time, the job isn't done yet.
-Shiroi Okami, Beh'Hude in Exile
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.22 14:30:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Karn Mithralia
That said, Ushra'Khan operating NRDS in Providence is just a matter of time.
CVA and Ushra'khan will always be mortal enemies; our differences run so much deeper than rules of engagment. But with that understanding and setting it aside for the moment:
I challenge U'K...without sarcasm or hidden intent...I challenge U'K to re-establish the burgeoning industry and security of Providence over time.
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Forlorn Wongraven
Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.22 19:51:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Forlorn Wongraven on 22/04/2010 19:52:13 Edited by: Forlorn Wongraven on 22/04/2010 19:51:52
Originally by: Garreck I challenge U'K...without sarcasm or hidden intent...I challenge U'K to re-establish the burgeoning industry and security of Providence over time.
As stated like a million times already: our kind of security and industry (depending on the balls of the industrialist) is totally different what CVA dictatorship in Providence was. Providence systems under UK sov will be safe when the pod pilot can defend himself. We will not hold your hand in nullsec. Therefore this challenge is void. ____________________
Lord Makk > I swear to god if there is a saviour, his name is Forlorn.
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.22 20:49:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Forlorn Wongraven Therefore this challenge is void.
tsk tsk.
Sandbagging, Mr Wongraven. And unneccessarily; should Ushra'khan rise to the challenge, it will be terrific for them and generally bad for CVA. No need to argue for argument's sake.
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Nathvas
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Posted - 2010.04.23 04:08:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Nathvas on 23/04/2010 04:13:26 I'll be frank, right now it doesn't make sense to go NRDS. The time isn't right. One just has to click on the map button and see CVA still hold between half a dozen to a dozen systems. CVA and CVA allied warships are still abundent, and from the posts I've read. People make it out like CVA is dead, which is wrong. CVA is far from dead. CVA has suffered a bloody nose and some black eyes but it isn't dead. CVA I'm sure will try to regroup, and try to find allies to attempt retake Providence.
As for when NRDS comes, I don't know. I leave that to my alliance leadership. Not because I can't think for myself, but because I don't have all the information they do. I trust them to make the rigth choice. And on this, I aggree with them. The time for rebuilding hasn't come. There are battles still to be fought, and blood to be spilt.
And thank you Shiroi Okami. I know UK/Mad Bomber relationship has soured a bit, but seeing your post has given me some hope that one day things can be returned, once again, to a civil and cordial one. I won't tell you to fly safe. Thats not the UK or Mad Bomber way. Instead, I'll say this. Fly Bold.
Edit: Grammer, spelling, all that good jazz.
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Forlorn Wongraven
Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.23 05:27:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Garreck it will be terrific for them and generally bad for CVA.
Indeed. Cause the "security" that CVA claimed to have in Providence is a myth. Billions of assets destroyed each month by Ushra'Khan and other entities show that this security never existed. ____________________
Lord Makk > I swear to god if there is a saviour, his name is Forlorn.
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Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.23 06:20:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Nathvas
I'll be frank, right now it doesn't make sense to go NRDS. The time isn't right. One just has to click on the map button and see CVA still hold between half a dozen to a dozen systems. CVA and CVA allied warships are still abundent, and from the posts I've read. People make it out like CVA is dead, which is wrong. CVA is far from dead. CVA has suffered a bloody nose and some black eyes but it isn't dead. CVA I'm sure will try to regroup, and try to find allies to attempt retake Providence.
But CVA and it's allies are simply set red? I don't see what this has to do with policy.
If the fight is against CVA and it's allies, then NRDS is all Ushra'Khan need.
NBSI is useful when you wish to shoot all pilots in a region who are not allies.
I suppose what is confusing is that in the old providence there were a great number of nuetrals who Ushra'Khan claimed were aiding CVA. This was of course false in most cases as nuetrals simply came to the area as it was an open region. Ushra'Khan fired on the said nuetrals. Easy targets.
Now in this new providence I suppose many of us don't see the need for the continued charade. There are no nuetrals unless some are attracted to Star Fractions freespace only to be shot by Ushra'Khan. And let's face it, this is not all that likely. So why not be NRDS if Ushra'Khan really wants to be NRDS?
Or just admit you wish to shoot all pilots in your space and maintain NBSI and forget NRDS for good. After all, the lives of ships crew and such are worthless when compared to the lives of slaves. Except, the slaves are free now in providence, correct?
But hey, all the weasle words are fun anyway. I have lots of popcorn.
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Marus Sulla
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.23 08:23:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Marus Sulla on 23/04/2010 08:25:39 These Providence 'neutrals' would of course be the same pilots who..
.. reported U'K pilots in CVA intel channels .. paid docking and repair fees in CVA/Allies stations .. bought CVA manufactured ships/mods in same
Activities which unsurprisingly U'K found somewhat 'hostile' to it's mission in Providence.
But keep going, it's keeping us in the news. I've been in comms like this for years.
Anyone who is seriously interested in what U'K does stand for can of course contact one of our fine recruiters.
Edit:Sneaky recruitment addition.
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Kazzzi
Amarr Iniquitous Technologies Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.04.23 08:52:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Kazzzi on 23/04/2010 08:53:00
Originally by: Syyl'ara
Originally by: Kazzzi Syyl'ara, I'm honestly surprised any members of U'K give you the courtesy of even acknowledging your presence since you are not yet a member of any culture's warrior caste, you should feel grateful they have even heard your opinions long enough to disagree with them. Even Xina Tutor, though not the bravest pilot, at least she will lend her guns to a fleet in order to engage her political enemies in battle.
I'll entertain this (admittedly well obscured) red herring fallacy long enough to highlight the both amusing and frightening prospect that willingness to engage in violence marks one as having an opinion more worthy of consideration.
Well, you directed several comments towards U'K pilots, many of whom have a deep tribal warrior heritage, so it's pretty intolerant of you to not understand that. There are only two types of capsuleers worthy of any respect, a noble warrior and a master craftsman, you are neither.
NRDS, NBSI, NQUE, NRDSIOPJUTDREI, NKOTB whatever, keep up the good work U'K.
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Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.23 09:17:00 -
[103]
.. reported U'K pilots in CVA intel channels
In the form of: HLEP I am being attacked by (insert Ushra'Khan pilot) in belt 4
.. paid docking and repair fees in CVA/Allies stations
Surely a crime, yes. Or we could simply leave stations closed as Ushra'Khan do.
.. bought CVA manufactured ships/mods in same
Ah but if we play that card then every pilot in the cluster is surely tainted. The horror of it all.
Now note that Ushra'Khan would shoot any pilot in Providence regardless of their activity. Their interest in livestock is simply an excuse to shoot who they please it would seem.
And indeed I do try to keep Providence feeds active for a little while at least. I do fear it will soon fade into the murk of all the rest of lawless space, along with Ushra'Khan and many others.
And yes, that would most likely include Sev3rance.
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Marus Sulla
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.23 09:22:00 -
[104]
Thanks for the free bump
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Butter Dog
Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.23 09:54:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Garreck And unneccessarily; should Ushra'khan rise to the challenge, it will be terrific for them and generally bad for CVA. No need to argue for argument's sake.
Quite the opposite, U'K are not empire builders, we have no wish to 'control' a region and hold peoples hands because they want a 'sansha hunt for free' pass. We have no desire to tell others how they should manage their standings.
We encourage bravery, skill, dedication, and courage - qualities you will not foster by attempting to emulate CONCORD, or forcing others to follow your standings.
CVA grew fat and lazy in its cushioned empire. The intoxicating feeling that you were "safe" led to an arrogance and feeling of immortality which ultimately led to your defeat in the region. We will not repeat your mistakes. ----------
~bitter dog~
etc |
Ugleb
Minmatar Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.23 09:58:00 -
[106]
I shall save myself the trouble of reading the entire 'discussion' and re-iterate the core facts.
As it is likely that I shall be the one to eventually bring the announcement of our future intent to this summit, please attend.
Our current RoE has been in place since the fall of Unity Station some three years ago. It was declared openly and has been re-publicised repeatedly over the years. The fact that many fail to grasp it is the doing of their own ignorance and that of their superiors. If you cannot think to understand your enemy then I cannot help you.
The Ushra'Khan operate NRDS in all regions of New Eden except for two designated war zones of Providence and Catch. If you happened to live in either of those regions then yes, you would have been shot by us with little or no warning.
Further to that, we shoot on sight any known supporters of the Slaver, this includes any member of the 24th Imperial Crusade or known ally of the CVA and their vaunted 'Operation Deliverance'. The reasons for that should be clear.
If you are not in Providence or Catch, and have not been identified as an enemy to the cause, then you are safe from us. This is simple NRDS.
As to the future? We will answer those questions in our time, as and when we are ready to do so. We will not be harried by some petulant slaver, hobby lawyer or political pundit. Providence is in turmoil, and we are making great changes. Now is not the time to make yet another sweeping change. The announcement will come when the time is right. Be it next week, or next month. We act with the future of our cause in mind, not to the braying of the mob.
Our future approach to Providence will be in the interests of advancing the cause, with the conditions that suit it. If we open the gates to all comers or lock the hangar doors, it shall be done to fit with our goals. If that means maintaining NBSI for a time then we shall, but the decision is ours to make, when we choose to make it.
The Journal; Walking The Road To Liberation |
edeity
Amarr Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
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Posted - 2010.04.23 10:23:00 -
[107]
Ushra'Khan has yet to show any capability beyond naked myopic opportunism wrapped in the thinnest layer of token artifical virtue.
Say what you will about CVA, but your only claim to fame will have been to self proclaim yourself as their adversary. You lack the sheer epic practicing what you preach.
Mere dirt that clusters on the boots of greatness.
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foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.23 12:38:00 -
[108]
Originally by: edeity Mere dirt that clusters on the boots of greatness.
What do you think your God thinks of your kin, if he allows dirt to defeat them? We are now the chosen warriors of your God, you are no longer in His light.
Minmatar victor, sicut erat et nunc, et semper, et in saecula saeculorum! _______________________ We come for our people! |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.23 13:00:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Butter Dog
CVA grew fat and lazy in its cushioned empire. The intoxicating feeling that you were "safe" led to an arrogance and feeling of immortality which ultimately led to your defeat in the region. We will not repeat your mistakes.
Ah. And here you are now, safe withing your own cushioned walls where sovreignty is guarenteed by your masters.
Yes. You will be safe an secure in her warm embrace for as long as the great empire who brought this victory chooses or is able to maintain the enclosure.
Already we see the arrogance of Daisho. We will hope Ushra'Khan are indeed made of better stuff.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.23 15:28:00 -
[110]
Thing is Xina. Daisho are no more arrogant than Sev3rance/CVA was with the difference that because they are not backed by a huge Amarrian Slaver with a red-list they need to conduct meaningful diplomacy. Sev3rance shot everyone who wasn't a slaver collaborator right? That was our issue with you. Sev3rance pilots shot on SF pilots because we were hunting CVA dogs and you chose to intervene. If you had been true to your "anti-pirate" ideals you'd have chosen not to get involved and accept that SF as freespacers were no threat to the genuine neutrals you claimed to respect and encourage.
True Knowledge |
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Nefher Zhila
Amarr Khanid Provincial Vanguard
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Posted - 2010.04.24 04:04:00 -
[111]
Honestly, I fail to see the reasoning behind all this questioning around what policy UshraÆkhan conducts in providence.
Is anyone expecting some kind of moral victory in this?!
ItÆs their space, hopefully not for long, but theirs at the moment nonetheless, let their reign of terror spread and take hold, it will make it that much easier for the Amarrian loyalists to reclaim it. My only thought goes for the unneeded suffering that their terrorist and violent ways will bring upon the innocent civilians, slave or not (reports of famine and all kind of shortages are already spreading at an alarming rate); I do not dwell too much on religious affairs but perhaps itÆs just one more of Gods trials placed upon them, one that IÆm sure the believers shall overcome.
Khanid Loyalist,Bahadir of Family Zhila. Former member of the 13th Royal Khanid Regulars, proud member of the khanid provincial Vanguard. |
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.24 07:01:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Nefher Zhila Honestly, I fail to see the reasoning behind all this questioning around what policy UshraÆkhan conducts in providence.
I think Merdaneth is expecting that his enemies will disappear in a puff of twisted logic if he manages to prove black is white and freedom is slavery to eight decimal places.
True Knowledge |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.24 07:16:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Thing is Xina. Daisho are no more arrogant than Sev3rance/CVA was with the difference that because they are not backed by a huge Amarrian Slaver with a red-list they need to conduct meaningful diplomacy.
Well we all know how that went recently :)
But seriously, the ant farm is more enclosurist than ever. The ants have less say in sovreignty issues than holders would have put up with.
And do you seriously think there was no 'serious diplomacy'?
Well you are new to holding space I suppose, and are just learning about these things.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Sev3rance shot everyone who wasn't a slaver collaborator right? That was our issue with you. Sev3rance pilots shot on SF pilots because we were hunting CVA dogs and you chose to intervene. If you had been true to your "anti-pirate" ideals you'd have chosen not to get involved and accept that SF as freespacers were no threat to the genuine neutrals you claimed to respect and encourage.
As I explained earlier, the standings CVA had toward you made no difference at all. Star Fraction pilots are anarchist by their very nature. You know very well that Star Fraction pilots would have flown to Sev3rance space at some time and shot a pilot which was nuetral or blue to us. At that time you would have been set red.
The fact that CVS gave us a heads up really just hastened an inevitable process. And try to remember that as an alliance we are neither pro or anti slavery. We have friends who are/were apparently involved in slavery, but honestly we could not care less one way or the other about slaves and various other livestock issues.
Now seriously. Will Star Fraction set any entity red if they fire on any of Star Draction's allies?
Well... Now you have me thinking. Does Star Fraction have allies?
Anyway. As you well know by now, Sev3rance is not strctly NRDS as many here seem to define it. We are simply anti-pirate, and the nature of your concept of 'freespace' imediately flags your alliance as a pirate organisation.
There is not a lot more to it really.
As a serious question, and due to the move made by Sev3rance, are you likely to reset Sev3rance? I am reasonably confident the reverse is not likely even after our recent major round of resetting.
But... perhaps with some 'serious diplomacy'...
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.24 11:53:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
As I explained earlier, the standings CVA had toward you made no difference at all. Star Fraction pilots are anarchist by their very nature. You know very well that Star Fraction pilots would have flown to Sev3rance space at some time and shot a pilot which was nuetral or blue to us. At that time you would have been set red.
A policy mirrored throughout CVA-ruled space and one of the reasons that the place was a haven for people who practised piracy elsewhere and then retreated to Providence where they knew that those they had wronged would be prevented from exacting a just retribution.
Quote:
Now seriously. Will Star Fraction set any entity red if they fire on any of Star Draction's allies? (sic)
As there is no ally with which we currently have an agreement of unified RoE, no.
I imagine that remark piques your interest. To explain, we will on occasion enter into publicly-announced formal coalition on the basis of a unified RoE with other entities. From our perspective, this requires a strict NRDS policy to be adopted. It is very rare that this would be considered. In general, we either have people join the alliance or we operate a distinct RoE alongside allies.
Our allies are well aware we will only fire on our reds and those who fire on us.
Quote:
Anyway. As you well know by now, Sev3rance is not strctly NRDS as many here seem to define it. We are simply anti-pirate, and the nature of your concept of 'freespace' imediately flags your alliance as a pirate organisation.
The notion that one of the oldest and most consistent advocates and practitioners of strict NRDS RoE is a 'pirate organisation' according to your definition rather suggests that there is a serious flaw with that definition.
I understand your need to propagandise against us but really, you make yourself look a little ridiculous when you abuse the language so flagrantly.
Quote:
As a serious question, and due to the move made by Sev3rance, are you likely to reset Sev3rance? I am reasonably confident the reverse is not likely even after our recent major round of resetting.
But... perhaps with some 'serious diplomacy'...
We are always open to meaningful diplomacy.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.24 12:42:00 -
[115]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
The notion that one of the oldest and most consistent advocates and practitioners of strict NRDS RoE is a 'pirate organisation' according to your definition rather suggests that there is a serious flaw with that definition.
Well Star Fraction is a contradiction in itself isn't it. They follow strict NRDS, but this entire concept of 'freespace' freedom is to fly where you want and shoot who you want. I admit piracy is too strong a word here, but it's obvious that SF is/was hostile to friends of Sev3rance, and that is quite enough for us.
Anyway. it is the same with any (most) alliance. I alliance A shoots pilots who are blue and/or nuetral to alliance B or in alliance B's space, then Alliance B will shoot alliance A.
Now as I understand it, SF will not shoot a particular entity even if that entity is shooting a friend of SF. You can correct me if I am wrong.
We are simply not like that. You shoot a friend, then we shoot back. So no, we do not follow NRDS to such a point.
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ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.24 12:55:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Now as I understand it, SF will not shoot a particular entity even if that entity is shooting a friend of SF. You can correct me if I am wrong.
We are simply not like that. You shoot a friend, then we shoot back. So no, we do not follow NRDS to such a point.
You got it! :D
..Basically we believe our friends can look after themselves, as they know we can. We also do not know why the neutrals are shooting our friends, as such its not really our place to get involved (They may have very good reasons, like we did for shooting CVA!).
I guess it comes down to what you value more friendship or justice? Being immortals its not such a big deal to lose a clone, but to lose our grasp on justice however noble we may think we are being in defending our 'friend' would be a dire mistake.
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Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.24 20:52:00 -
[117]
Originally by: ChipMo
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Now as I understand it, SF will not shoot a particular entity even if that entity is shooting a friend of SF. You can correct me if I am wrong.
We are simply not like that. You shoot a friend, then we shoot back. So no, we do not follow NRDS to such a point.
You got it! :D
..Basically we believe our friends can look after themselves, as they know we can. We also do not know why the neutrals are shooting our friends, as such its not really our place to get involved (They may have very good reasons, like we did for shooting CVA!).
I guess it comes down to what you value more friendship or justice? Being immortals its not such a big deal to lose a clone, but to lose our grasp on justice however noble we may think we are being in defending our 'friend' would be a dire mistake.
Well, we have some idealogical differences, and it is one of those things which makes our universe such a rich and interesting place. We look first to our friends and to loyalty because even now here in the void of space we remain a very social creature. As individuals we can only achieve so much, as a greater whole we too bcome greater.
Now of course Star Fraction also values loyalty, I know, but it seems only within their own ranks. We extend such beyond that. Indeed it would seem Star Fraction does so as well at times. Again it seems a contradiction.
I am sure that at times you also become involved in battles which were not initially your own, but perhaps you have some other 'procedure' to follow to initiate involvement.
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The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.25 13:11:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
The notion that one of the oldest and most consistent advocates and practitioners of strict NRDS RoE is a 'pirate organisation' according to your definition rather suggests that there is a serious flaw with that definition.
Well Star Fraction is a contradiction in itself isn't it. They follow strict NRDS, but this entire concept of 'freespace' freedom is to fly where you want and shoot who you want.
No, that is not so. The freespace ideology certainly contains as its core principle that of free movement, that is, as you put it, to fly where we choose to fly. It does not include an element of 'shoot who you want'. Rather, we say that if people use violence or the threat of violence against us, we will respond as necessary.
It was not only 'a bit strong' to describe our strict NRDS RoE as 'piracy', it was simply bizarre. Particularly when set against the rather more ambiguous standings regime of Slaver Providence. In this regard, the CVA and the 'Providence Holders Coalition' wanted to have its Amarrian seedcake in the cupboard and eat it. You all wanted to bray that you had 'independent' standings lists and no-one forced you to follow a particular KOS regime and you then wanted to be able to fire on neutrals fighting some other 'independent' alliance in your club.
This was a deliberate policy of ambiguity designed to simultaneously absolve the CVA of responsibility for the acts of its vassals and to flatter the egos of those selfsame vassals that they were 'independent'.
More honest would have been a simple and straightforward declaration that the 'Providence Holders Coalition' was in standings and RoE union, with all the members of the PHC having the same red list and deciding on the composition of that red list as a coalition.
This, of course, was impossible because the PHC was not a union of equals. It was a slave-pen owned, organised and operated by the CVA. To have declared a formal, open and honest standings union would have been to admit all independence had gone by the boards. The CVA, after all, held slave-contracts on all its PHC vassals; slave-contracts it lost no time in waving in your faces when the PHC alliances favoured diplomacy over a life-and-death blood struggle they none of them felt they could win.
I used to believe that the CVA had done a relatively good job in setting up a regime in Providence that mirrored the feudal system of the Amarr Empire. A system where rights and obligations flowed in both directions, as in the Amarr Empire. But, in the end, their arrogance and hubris proved too much for the CVA to acknowledge that its vassals had rights and it had obligations to them. No, better to get out the slave-contracts and inform the vassals that in the end it saw them as no more than serf levies fighting for the CVA's mangy slaver hide above all others.
No wonder the once-mighty fleets of Holder Providence fell apart.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.25 15:19:00 -
[119]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
No wonder the once-mighty fleets of Holder Providence fell apart.
Sorry. I fade out after the first few lines.
But let's be at least honest about this. It was never likely the Providence fleets would stand against the entire southern coalition. IT's simple math.
No need for much spin on that one.
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Xina Tutor
Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.25 15:30:00 -
[120]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
No wonder the once-mighty fleets of Holder Providence fell apart.
Sorry. I fade out after the first few lines. But I would suggest even your own pilots aren't too clear on your RoE, or any idea what SF is 'realy' about. It's okay, we have the same issues.
But let's be at least honest about this. It was never likely the Providence fleets would stand against the entire southern coalition. IT's simple math.
No need for much spin on that one.
And I think I have really talked about ancient history far too long. Any further discussion about Providence should really be with -A- I suppose.
Perhaps we will meet again somewhere in some other space some time.
Until then...
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