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forestwho
Foonfleet Investment Banking
15
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Posted - 2012.07.08 14:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
due your repetable failures
This is not about nerfing tech, this is about injecting sooo much isk in an alliance by broken game mechannics that it is impossible to counter them in several arms races. Resulting in several things:
Unlimited reimbursent power; -Basicly this gives the abillity to suicie fleet after fleet to ware the oppoment isk pool down.
Unlimited capital ship buying power; -Abllity to fully fund allaince super capitals and reimburse them and not getting an financial injury when losing.
Strenghten the individual corporations of a tech alliance more -By having lots of isk for those corps they are able to purchase more and better support for there members. Think hereby about setting up logi chains with corp JF's, hireing FC's and free roaming ship reimbursements.
Giving those alliances a better moral and a better pubic image due more isk -Good FC's tend to join such allaices as they are getting payed in isk and getting their ships fully reimbursed. This creates a chain of affects that boost internal alli moral (more stuff/roams to do) and increases overall public image
Exellent Alliance Recruitment -Those allainces can take in more and better corps due promising them isk every month. Why shouldnt join an allaince that reimburse all your losses freely, hands out free supers and payes you 10-20b a month for just being there...
This is an armsrace that will effects eve for a long long time. Due poor game desighn and repeatable negection of serious issues like this i come to the conclusion that you have learned nothing so far CCP. The only way to fix this a little bit is insta removing tech from tech moons and NPC seed it at current prices untill ringmining is introduced. The excess isk gained should be removed to a level thats acceptable, something thats upto you to decide. The biggest reson for this to do it now is due ISK stocking. When the amount of isk that an allaice gains is soo high that they can save up 500 billion isk a month, something must be serious wrong. When an alliance has over 10 Trillion in savings and gaining another 500 billion a month something is not right.... Expecialy when it is publicly known that CCP employees have high ranks in that allaince. A serious Public Image Threat for you marketing department and your customer base. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
791
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
If only 10% of high sec dwellers were to form an alliance, they would likely out number even the largest null sec alliance by 7 to 1. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Rene Fullchest
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
32
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Posted - 2012.07.08 14:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well, you know, it's not like CCP just gave all the tech to the CFC. We fought for it, took it, and hold it.
Not our problem that we were good enough to do so, nor is it CCP's.
If you truly feel that you, no one, will ever be able to take enough to compete, you should probably unsubscribe, because we certainly are not going to stop defending it. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
120
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
i wondered what the next excuse would be. |
Jonah Gravenstein
577
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Posted - 2012.07.08 14:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
TL;DR
Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it.
Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork: War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
166
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
forestwho wrote: This is an armsrace that will effects eve for a long long time. Due poor game desighn and repeatable negection of serious issues like this i come to the conclusion that you have learned nothing so far CCP. The only way to fix this a little bit is insta removing tech from tech moons and NPC seed it at current prices untill ringmining is introduced. The excess isk gained should be removed to a level thats acceptable, something thats upto you to decide. The biggest reson for this to do it now is due ISK stocking. When the amount of isk that an allaice gains is soo high that they can save up 500 billion isk a month, something must be serious wrong. When an alliance has over 10 Trillion in savings and gaining another 500 billion a month something is not right.... Expecialy when it is publicly known that CCP employees have high ranks in that allaince. A serious Public Image Threat for you marketing department and your customer base.
I agreed with you up until you offered your solution. The correct solution in a sandbox game is to change the rules of the sandbox not to artificially inject things into the market for reasons of "stability" or "fairness". For the entire life of EVE there have been massive imbalances in the game mechanics. Perhaps the game mechanics can be balanced and iterated on in a way that makes things better and does not create another super imbalance like Tech did. The fact that Tech has not been balanced in 4? years simply blows my mind. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
120
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:TL;DR Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it. Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork:
i think the point the op was trying to make is that they've had it that long they're too well resourced/dug in/whatever.
which just makes me wonder why nobody tried to do any thing sooner? |
dexington
Lysergic.acid.diethylamide
30
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:If only 10% of high sec dwellers were to form an alliance, they would likely out number even the largest null sec alliance by 7 to 1.
Judging from the public opinion on the forum, you are better off staying in empire. The 0.0 population use to much time complaining about how bad everything is in 0.0, empire seem like a nice place why would anyone leave?
Living in empire means more time to shoot at red dots and less time complaining on the forums, and you don't have to take part in the space politics, which seems to be mostly posting on the forums about how great you corp/alliance is, and how terrible everyone else is.
There is probably only two ways to get 10% to leave empire space, the carrot or the whip. Seeing how there is nothing that comes close to being a carrot, nothing is happening unless ccp nerf empire space to hell. |
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Confirming that tech moons are mined for pure isk, and not technetium. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
70
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Posted - 2012.07.08 14:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
I just think the tech should move around. I don't like the idea of fixed assets at fixed locations at all. Tech needs to fade out of one region and fade into another over time. Then you'll see a more dynamic null-sec. |
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Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:I just think the tech should move around. I don't like the idea of fixed assets at fixed locations at all. Tech needs to fade out of one region and fade into another over time. Then you'll see a more dynamic null-sec.
This is what happens when npc corp alts of high sec carebears suggest changes to null sec mechanics. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Dersk
90040045
84
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Posted - 2012.07.08 14:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
forestwho wrote:This is not about nerfing tech, this is about injecting sooo much isk in an alliance by broken game mechannics that it is impossible to counter them in several arms races.
So that explains why no one could dislodge alliances like Morsus Mihi, White Noise., Raiden., RAZOR, and Mostly Harmless from their tech moons. I was wondering. |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
139
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 14:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rene Fullchest wrote:Well, you know, it's not like CCP just gave all the tech to the CFC. We fought for it, took it, and hold it.
Not our problem that we were good enough to do so, nor is it CCP's.
If you truly feel that you, no one, will ever be able to take enough to compete, you should probably unsubscribe, because we certainly are not going to stop defending it.
Don't say we. You are no Goon, you are a lowly pet. There was no we, Goons fought for it and took it. Your masters just threw you a bone as condolences for all the rug burns on your knees.
Also Goons give themselves more credit than they deserve. They were greatly inferior to BOB and couldn't beat them. That's why they had to basically cheat (even if not violating EULA) by, infiltrating the corp and disassembling from the inside. Goons would of never been able to beat BOB in a normal war, and they know that too. If they thought for even a second they could win they wouldn't have destroyed BOB in one fell swoop with no shots fired. Why take away your biggest target if you think you can beat them? Because they knew they had zero chance. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
790
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tell me more about how SoCo works, oh NPC alt forum warrior. (PS. I'm sorry you would get fined for posting with your main.) Why did you take my wings away? |
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
299
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
No one believed that BoB could be taken down, and then someone did a left click of a mouse and proved them wrong.
Null sec should have elements worth fighting for. So, the problem is not the elements, but the fact that no one has the balls to take it for themselves.
That, is EVE.
Only difference is that BoB actually had the respect and the money, instead of just the money.
When you really look at the facts; Goonswarm do not have anything of value.
AK GÇ£You go into combat, and itGÇÖs NOT going to be WagnerGǪindustrial techno or really hard drum and bassGÇ¥ Reynir Hardarson, founding member of CCP Games, 2002.
somethingjustgotreal.com |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
139
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
KrakizBad wrote:Tell me more about how SoCo works, oh NPC alt forum warrior. (PS. I'm sorry you would get fined for posting with your main.)
Oh did I make the Goon lap dog angry? Know how I know you're angry? When people get angry and have no real argument they like to point out that I am in an NPC corp.
AlleyKat wrote:No one believed that BoB could be taken down, and then someone did a left click of a mouse and proved them wrong.
BoB was never 'taken down' really. No one ever beat them in a war. They got infiltrated, robbed and disbanded. To think a second person would ever do something as stupid as give director roles to an enemy is delusional. I don't understand how it happened just one time. But I assure you the Goons are not going to make the same mistake. Using BoB as an example of how big alliances fall is not a good example. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
133
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP need to properly balance tech distribution
but wont / promises to, but it'll be one of those things we dont see for two years
what else is new |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
790
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
Exactly like your "winning by never undocking," I am "angry." Why did you take my wings away? |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
992
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lucy Ferrr wrote:KrakizBad wrote:Tell me more about how SoCo works, oh NPC alt forum warrior. (PS. I'm sorry you would get fined for posting with your main.) Oh did I make the Goon lap dog angry? Know how I know you're angry? When people get angry and have no real argument they like to point out that I am in an NPC corp.
You also have really bad opinions. Does that count as a "real argument?" |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
992
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
AlleyKat wrote:Only difference is that BoB actually had the respect and the money, instead of just the money.
BoB. Respect?
Ow. My sense of irony just sprained itself. |
|
Pesky LaRue
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
228
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arkon Olacar wrote:Victoria Sin wrote:I just think the tech should move around. I don't like the idea of fixed assets at fixed locations at all. Tech needs to fade out of one region and fade into another over time. Then you'll see a more dynamic null-sec. This is what happens when npc corp alts of high sec carebears suggest changes to null sec mechanics. Just curious, but why do you think that? I have long believed that having the moon-goo fade in and out in waves would absolutely create a more dynamic null-sec landscape as the movement of scarce and limited veins would likely create a moving front-line as alliances are constantly on the go, ravaging an area for it's natural resources and then moving on.
no? |
stoicfaux
1219
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Capitalism will save the day! Some team of bright engineers/chemists/scientists will create synthetic tech or create a generic equivalent or find a way to synthesize tech from other elements.
Similar to how DeBeers created a world-wide monopoly on diamonds, increasing prices on diamonds to artificially high levels, until people figured out how to grow perfect diamonds in the lab.
Also, wealth and power tends to attract egos. Politics tends to bring down even the best and most established organizations.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
293
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:If only 10% of high sec dwellers were to form an alliance, they would likely out number even the largest null sec alliance by 7 to 1.
And do what? They are not even able to replace their own ships in less than a week of grinding missions.
If you're not holding tech (just need to be blue to someone that does to meet that criteria) you're not going to do anything more than dream.
Seems that's all high sec people want mind you so don't see any point in changes made to the game.
Only changes that could rewire high sex people are things like :
- pirate modules and implants in null sec. Take them To high sec / low sec and get fined - faction modules only allowed in that factions space unless you're in fw where you are have to adjust your behavior
There is no need to come to null sec while everything minus the headaches is available at any market hub.
Jita is a massive blanket of comfort
Not sure why everyone wants to fight over null sec ... People camping Jita undock / gates are ahead of the curve with regards to effort / risk / reward
Holding tech doesn't affect them. Only concern they have is that Jita doesn't get it's trillions of ISK brought in / out every few hours
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
994
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 15:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Spurty wrote: Not sure why everyone wants to fight over null sec ... People camping Jita undock / gates are ahead of the curve with regards to effort / risk / reward
Holding tech doesn't affect them. Only concern they have is that Jita doesn't get it's trillions of ISK brought in / out every few hours
Sure, if by effort and risk/reward you mean sitting there like a lump, waiting for people to be vulnerable while their client freezes and blanks out during undock, so you can kill them without any chance of them fighting back. "Leet Highsec PVP" I guess, but it doesn't hold a candle to anything in Nullsec.
Also, I think you're vastly mistaken re: Tech profits. If you got 7000 players together and had them doing something in highsec, like say, mission running, or Ice botting, or crafting ships or something, you'd see similar profits. Tech is just what Goons "do" right now, because of a lucky happenstance with Goon space and moon goo.
The only way to really shuffle this around would be to force CCP to disband Goonswarm and the CFC, and hahaha, even NewCCP wouldn't dare. |
forestwho
Foonfleet Investment Banking
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:TL;DR Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it. Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork:
Cant if the current holders buys corps, strenght and has untimited reimbursement powers. Read my post properly pls
Xython wrote:
Also, I think you're vastly mistaken re: Tech profits. If you got 7000 players together and had them doing something in highsec, like say, mission running, or Ice botting, or crafting ships or something, you'd see similar profits. Tech is just what Goons "do" right now, because of a lucky happenstance with Goon space and moon goo.
Moonmining is 99% afk job once you have the establischment (blues) to defend them. Only need to fuel the tower and scoop out the goo 3 times a month and ship it to jita from time to time. Ppl maybe x up 1% of their monthy playing time to defend it myabe once in holdership....
Dersk wrote:forestwho wrote:This is not about nerfing tech, this is about injecting sooo much isk in an alliance by broken game mechannics that it is impossible to counter them in several arms races. So that explains why no one could dislodge alliances like Morsus Mihi, White Noise., Raiden., RAZOR, and Mostly Harmless from their tech moons. I was wondering.
0.0 politics are complicated, you saying that tells me you know nothing about it and allaince inner structures & it strengts and weaknesses and all sorts that is related to that.... pls move on |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Xython wrote:Spurty wrote: Not sure why everyone wants to fight over null sec ... People camping Jita undock / gates are ahead of the curve with regards to effort / risk / reward
Holding tech doesn't affect them. Only concern they have is that Jita doesn't get it's trillions of ISK brought in / out every few hours
Also, I think you're vastly mistaken re: Tech profits. If you got 7000 players together and had them doing something in highsec, like say, mission running, or Ice botting, or crafting ships or something, you'd see similar profits. Tech is just what Goons "do" right now, because of a lucky happenstance with Goon space and moon goo. T
The difference is there are not 7000 people mining moon goo. I don't how many people exactly you have tending to POS but I am sure it's just a small handful. A handful of people making the same amount of isk (almost completely passively may I add) as 7000 people actively running missions or mining ice.
|
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
994
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
forestwho wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:TL;DR Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it. Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork: Cant if the current holders buys corps, strenght and has untimited reimbursement powers. Read my post properly pls Xython wrote:
Also, I think you're vastly mistaken re: Tech profits. If you got 7000 players together and had them doing something in highsec, like say, mission running, or Ice botting, or crafting ships or something, you'd see similar profits. Tech is just what Goons "do" right now, because of a lucky happenstance with Goon space and moon goo.
Moonmining is 99% afk job once you have the establischment (blues) to defend them. Only need to fuel the tower and scoop out the goo 3 times a month and ship it to jita from time to time. Ppl maybe x up 1% of their monthy playing time to defend it myabe once in holdership....
You have no idea what you are talking about and are too ignorant to bother trying to educate. Go away. |
forestwho
Foonfleet Investment Banking
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Why cause this is a serious issue that is serious broken and that is affecting your income? |
Gorinia Sanford
Sons of Russ
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
forestwho wrote:due your repetable failures
This is not about nerfing tech, this is about injecting sooo much isk in an alliance by broken game mechannics that it is impossible to counter them in several arms races. Resulting in several things:
Unlimited reimbursent power; -Basicly this gives the abillity to suicie fleet after fleet to ware the oppoment isk pool down.
Unlimited capital ship buying power; -Abllity to fully fund allaince super capitals and reimburse them and not getting an financial injury when losing.
Strenghten the individual corporations of a tech alliance more -By having lots of isk for those corps they are able to purchase more and better support for there members. Think hereby about setting up logi chains with corp JF's, hireing FC's and free roaming ship reimbursements.
Giving those alliances a better moral and a better pubic image due more isk -Good FC's tend to join such allaices as they are getting payed in isk and getting their ships fully reimbursed. This creates a chain of affects that boost internal alli moral (more stuff/roams to do) and increases overall public image
Exellent Alliance Recruitment -Those allainces can take in more and better corps due promising them isk every month. Why shouldnt join an allaince that reimburse all your losses freely, hands out free supers and payes you 10-20b a month for just being there...
This is an armsrace that will effects eve for a long long time. Due poor game desighn and repeatable negection of serious issues like this i come to the conclusion that you have learned nothing so far CCP. The only way to fix this a little bit is insta removing tech from tech moons and NPC seed it at current prices untill ringmining is introduced. The excess isk gained should be removed to a level thats acceptable, something thats upto you to decide. The biggest reson for this to do it now is due ISK stocking. When the amount of isk that an allaice gains is soo high that they can save up 500 billion isk a month, something must be serious wrong. When an alliance has over 10 Trillion in savings and gaining another 500 billion a month something is not right.... Expecialy when it is publicly known that CCP employees have high ranks in that allaince. A serious Public Image Threat for you marketing department and your customer base.
Would you like a little cheese with that whine?
|
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
122
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
forestwho wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:TL;DR Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it. Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork: Cant if the current holders buys corps, strenght and has untimited reimbursement powers. Read my post properly pls
i'm sorry but the people in null sec who didn't bother to try and take the tech moons have nobody to blame but themselves. this situation is a direct result of their own actions or lack of. |
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