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Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
994
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lucy Ferrr wrote:Xython wrote:Spurty wrote: Not sure why everyone wants to fight over null sec ... People camping Jita undock / gates are ahead of the curve with regards to effort / risk / reward
Holding tech doesn't affect them. Only concern they have is that Jita doesn't get it's trillions of ISK brought in / out every few hours
Also, I think you're vastly mistaken re: Tech profits. If you got 7000 players together and had them doing something in highsec, like say, mission running, or Ice botting, or crafting ships or something, you'd see similar profits. Tech is just what Goons "do" right now, because of a lucky happenstance with Goon space and moon goo. T The difference is there are not 7000 people mining moon goo. I don't how many people exactly you have tending to POS but I am sure it's just a small handful. A handful of people making the same amount of isk (almost completely passively may I add) as 7000 people actively running missions or mining ice.
Sure, a small handful of people tending to POS... and an army of people offering required logistics support to ensure that handful of people can actually DO the moon mining in the first place. Don't try the false comparison bullshit there, it won't work. It's not 5 guys and a single spreadsheet leading to a trillion ISK a month in tech profits; it's the work of thousands of people in the Swarm working together.
Nullsec isn't Highsec, we have no CONCORD to hold our hands and wipe our... noses for us. If you want to start making real money in EVE, it's time to take off the training wheels and move out of Highsec. And CCP needs to get off their asses and move MORE money out of Highsec, because the Risk/Reward is so screwed up it's not even funny. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
994
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
forestwho wrote:Why cause this is a serious issue that is serious broken and that is affecting your income?
No, because you're an alt-corp troll ("foonfleet? Skill yourself.) who has a rather obvious agenda and a poor grasp of the English language. "serious broken" indeed. |
forestwho
Foonfleet Investment Banking
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
Xython wrote:forestwho wrote:Why cause this is a serious issue that is serious broken and that is affecting your income? No, because you're an alt-corp troll ("foonfleet? Skill yourself.) who has a rather obvious agenda and a poor grasp of the English language. "serious broken" indeed.
you mad? |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
994
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:forestwho wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:TL;DR Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it. Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork: Cant if the current holders buys corps, strenght and has untimited reimbursement powers. Read my post properly pls i'm sorry but the people in null sec who didn't bother to try and take the tech moons have nobody to blame but themselves. this situation is a direct result of their own actions or lack of.
Ah, but it's a lot more fun to wine to CCP and pray that they intervene in the sandbox to "fix" the fact that Goonfleet and the CFC actually like the game enough to do things like take and hold tech moons.
Hey, before you roll your eyes -- it worked for the lazy bastards AFK Bot Mining in highsec! Maybe it'll work for the poor idiots in SoCo. After all, since they never undock they have plenty of time to whine on the forums under alt accounts. |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
994
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
forestwho wrote:Xython wrote:forestwho wrote:Why cause this is a serious issue that is serious broken and that is affecting your income? No, because you're an alt-corp troll ("foonfleet? Skill yourself.) who has a rather obvious agenda and a poor grasp of the English language. "serious broken" indeed. you mad?
Nope. And it's "You mad, bro?" Get it right. |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
Xython wrote:Dave stark wrote:forestwho wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:TL;DR Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it. Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork: Cant if the current holders buys corps, strenght and has untimited reimbursement powers. Read my post properly pls i'm sorry but the people in null sec who didn't bother to try and take the tech moons have nobody to blame but themselves. this situation is a direct result of their own actions or lack of. Ah, but it's a lot more fun to wine to CCP and pray that they intervene in the sandbox to "fix" the fact that Goonfleet and the CFC actually like the game enough to do things like take and hold tech moons. Hey, before you roll your eyes -- it worked for the lazy bastards AFK Bot Mining in highsec! Maybe it'll work for the poor idiots in SoCo. After all, since they never undock they have plenty of time to whine on the forums under alt accounts.
You guys are both dumb, but thanks for bringing your flawed argument to the table. How is anyone supposed to do anything about it. First the biggest alliance (Goons) allies with the second biggest alliance (TEST). Then you have all your pets, which are some of the biggest nul alliances. Your little circle jerk is nearly bigger than every non CFC nul alliance combined.
Your flawed argument is like calling the owner of a small grocery store stupid for not being more competitive and letting Walmart put him out of business. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lucy Ferrr wrote:Rene Fullchest wrote:Well, you know, it's not like CCP just gave all the tech to the CFC. We fought for it, took it, and hold it.
Not our problem that we were good enough to do so, nor is it CCP's.
If you truly feel that you, no one, will ever be able to take enough to compete, you should probably unsubscribe, because we certainly are not going to stop defending it. Don't say we. You are no Goon, you are a lowly pet. There was no we, Goons fought for it and took it. Your masters just threw you a bone as condolences for all the rug burns on your knees. .
http://crackerjax.org/gwiki/GoonWIki/wiki.goonfleet.com/Deklein.html
Quote: In Summer 2010, following the Delve fiasco and the Cloud Ring fiasco, goons were invited to move to Deklein and stay on TCF's couch. Couple of months later, TCF decided they didn't want that region anyway and have moved to Venal, handing sovereignty of Deklein over to the Goonswarm Federation.
More bullsh1t please. LOL Fought for it. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8423
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Pesky LaRue wrote:Just curious, but why do you think that? I have long believed that having the moon-goo fade in and out in waves would absolutely create a more dynamic null-sec landscape as the movement of scarce and limited veins would likely create a moving front-line as alliances are constantly on the go, ravaging an area for it's natural resources and then moving on.
no? Most likely no.
Precious moon goo is worth taking and holding space over. But will it be worth doing that every n months? Constant war costs and that's what will be required to create the dynamic, on top of constantly having to pull down and erect towers to get the most of your territory. It also introduces a lead time in doing all that work (and finding the new rich veins) that cuts into the profit period. So it's just as likely that it will just cause more static behaviour: better to just sit tight and take what you can GÇö build up a reserve while the riches come your way and wait out the downtime before the die rolls in your favour again.
At the same time, it's also as likely that it will not actually work against the GÇ£big guysGÇ¥ GÇö that lead-up time will once again come to bite you if and when the smaller entity suddenly finds itself sitting on a gold mine. It has to harvest all of it, get it to market, use those riches to build defencesGǪ and get all of it done before the big brutes come and stomp all over you. With this outcome, the only dynamic is that the big coalitions stomp all over the map GÇö not that there will be any dynamism in who's GÇ£on topGÇ¥ at any given time.
While it sounds good in theory, dynamic resource shifts might in practice cause even more static space holding and/or even more favour the larger alliances GÇö the (unstated) goal is often one or both of the opposites of those two outcomes. Sure, those new problems could conceivably be fixed, but that would require yet another massive revamp of both the space holding (or, more accurately, space-taking) and resource extraction mechanismsGǪ and ship buildingGǪ and force projectionGǪ and (etc).
That is not to say that it wouldn't have other beneficial effects, but things like plain old laziness, economics, and lag-time in building a power base will definitely dampen the whole GÇ£dynamicGÇ¥ aspect of that kind of change. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Aineko Macx
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
197
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
By OPs logic the old NC shouldn't have collapsed under external pressure. |
Xinivrae
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lucy Ferrr wrote: You guys are both dumb, but thanks for bringing your flawed argument to the table. How is anyone supposed to do anything about it. First the biggest alliance (Goons) allies with the second biggest alliance (TEST). Then you have all your pets, which are some of the biggest nul alliances. Your little circle jerk is nearly bigger than every non CFC nul alliance combined.
That right there, that "it's impossible, don't bother to try" mentality is what's keeping you down. |
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Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:forestwho wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:TL;DR Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it. Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork: Cant if the current holders buys corps, strenght and has untimited reimbursement powers. Read my post properly pls i'm sorry but the people in null sec who didn't bother to try and take the tech moons have nobody to blame but themselves. this situation is a direct result of their own actions or lack of.
So tell me about Bropact?
Seems like you shave a tech moon and you get 1200 sceamers in local that live from Fountain, all the way around to Gem. |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
Your flawed argument is like calling the owner of a small grocery store stupid for not being more competitive and letting Walmart put him out of business.
What you're saying here is that the US government (CCP) should shut down Walmart (GSF/CFC/OTEC) for being too big. Yeah thats not going to happen either. It will never change because there's no rule stopping anyone from becoming Walmart.
GSF used to be the small grocery store and BOB was Walmart and what did the GSF do? We took over the galaxy and crushed BOB and its 3(so far) reiterations. If you can't do that then yes, it's no ones fault but your own.
|
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:48:00 -
[43] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Dave stark wrote:forestwho wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:TL;DR Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it. Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork: Cant if the current holders buys corps, strenght and has untimited reimbursement powers. Read my post properly pls i'm sorry but the people in null sec who didn't bother to try and take the tech moons have nobody to blame but themselves. this situation is a direct result of their own actions or lack of. So tell me about Bropact? Seems like you shave a tech moon and you get 1200 sceamers in local that live from Fountain, all the way around to Gem.
i'll tell you about bropact when you tell me, in detail, about your in-game efforts to change who owns the tech moons. |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Dave stark wrote:forestwho wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:TL;DR Goons and pals control all the tech, and I can't be arsed to do anything about it. Want that tech? take it, just like they did. :effort: :teamwork: Cant if the current holders buys corps, strenght and has untimited reimbursement powers. Read my post properly pls i'm sorry but the people in null sec who didn't bother to try and take the tech moons have nobody to blame but themselves. this situation is a direct result of their own actions or lack of. So tell me about Bropact? Seems like you shave a tech moon and you get 1200 sceamers in local that live from Fountain, all the way around to Gem.
So get a bigger bropact. They can get 1200 dudes why cant you? |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:51:00 -
[45] - Quote
Cameron Cahill wrote:
So tell me about Bropact?
Seems like you shave a tech moon and you get 1200 sceamers in local that live from Fountain, all the way around to Gem.
So get a bigger bropact. They can get 1200 dudes why cant you?[/quote]
SoCo has NEVER fielded a fleet that big, as in there isn't enough of the rest of the map.
|
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:
i'll tell you about bropact when you tell me, in detail, about your in-game efforts to change who owns the tech moons.
Be fair they deployed, they tried, they died in a fire. |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Onictus wrote:Cameron Cahill wrote:
So tell me about Bropact?
Seems like you shave a tech moon and you get 1200 sceamers in local that live from Fountain, all the way around to Gem.
So get a bigger bropact. They can get 1200 dudes why cant you? SoCo has NEVER fielded a fleet that big, as in there isn't enough of the rest of the map.
Not our problem even though there is, you have a large(ish) coalition, if you cant scrape 1200 from 25k then whose fault is that? That and you have 15k renters between you and solar why don't you stop shitting on them and start utilizing them? |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:
i'll tell you about bropact when you tell me, in detail, about your in-game efforts to change who owns the tech moons.
Be fair they deployed, they tried, they died in a fire.
which station did they stage a sit-in for that? |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:58:00 -
[49] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:
i'll tell you about bropact when you tell me, in detail, about your in-game efforts to change who owns the tech moons.
Be fair they deployed, they tried, they died in a fire. which station did they stage a sit-in for that?
Somewhere in placid apparently. They shot a pl moon 1 jump from where they were staging and couldn't take it. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 16:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:
i'll tell you about bropact when you tell me, in detail, about your in-game efforts to change who owns the tech moons.
Be fair they deployed, they tried, they died in a fire. which station did they stage a sit-in for that? Somewhere in placid apparently. They shot a pl moon 1 jump from where they were staging and couldn't take it.
We took it, DNS actually shaved it, so we let them have it. They held it for 17 hours or some such.
That is the terrible -A- diplomacy you always scream about.
All of the POS mods are on my KB if you have any doubts. |
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Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:
i'll tell you about bropact when you tell me, in detail, about your in-game efforts to change who owns the tech moons.
Be fair they deployed, they tried, they died in a fire. which station did they stage a sit-in for that? Somewhere in placid apparently. They shot a pl moon 1 jump from where they were staging and couldn't take it.
looks like that detailed account of their efforts to change ownership of tech moons will be a worse read than 50 shades of grey. |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:02:00 -
[52] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:
i'll tell you about bropact when you tell me, in detail, about your in-game efforts to change who owns the tech moons.
Be fair they deployed, they tried, they died in a fire. which station did they stage a sit-in for that? Somewhere in placid apparently. They shot a pl moon 1 jump from where they were staging and couldn't take it. looks like that detailed account of their efforts to change ownership of tech moons will be a worse read than 50 shades of grey.
I wouldn't go quite that far. I mean maka raging would provide at least some humour. |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:Cameron Cahill wrote:Dave stark wrote:
i'll tell you about bropact when you tell me, in detail, about your in-game efforts to change who owns the tech moons.
Be fair they deployed, they tried, they died in a fire. which station did they stage a sit-in for that? Somewhere in placid apparently. They shot a pl moon 1 jump from where they were staging and couldn't take it. We took it, DNS actually shaved it, so we let them have it. They held it for 17 hours or some such. That is the terrible -A- diplomacy you always scream about. All of the POS mods are on my KB if you have any doubts.
17 hours is hardly op success... I mean did they even get any tech out of it? Like enough to pay for the dead tower? |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:04:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cameron Cahill wrote:
I wouldn't go quite that far. I mean maka raging would provide at least some humour.
Maka rage is great, I look forward to Maka foaming when I jump in coms, that means there is some **** and its going to be fun. When he's calm, its usually a structure shoot.
Cameron Cahill wrote:
17 hours is hardly op success... I mean did they even get any tech out of it? Like enough to pay for the dead tower?
You missed the DNS part. They shaved it, they got the moon, we just gave the numbers to kill the POS. They are in no other way affiliated -A- or the SoC0, they are WAY north for us. |
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
Xinivrae wrote:
That right there, that "it's impossible, don't bother to try" mentality is what's keeping you down.
Riiiight, cause my 250 man alliance stands a real good chance in a war for assets against the tens of thousnads of members of the CFC. Every time one of your gangs comes through we destroy it (in admittedly usually good fights), but I am not delusional enough to think we could even make a stand in a real war. You out number us 100 to 1, an some of us don't enjoy playing in TiDi. |
Cutter Isaacson
Peace N Quiet
794
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:08:00 -
[56] - Quote
dexington wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:If only 10% of high sec dwellers were to form an alliance, they would likely out number even the largest null sec alliance by 7 to 1. Judging from the public opinion on the forum, you are better off staying in empire. The 0.0 population use to much time complaining about how bad everything is in 0.0, empire seem like a nice place why would anyone leave? Living in empire means more time to shoot at red dots and less time complaining on the forums, and you don't have to take part in the space politics, which seems to be mostly posting on the forums about how great you corp/alliance is, and how terrible everyone else is. There is probably only two ways to get 10% to leave empire space, the carrot or the whip. Seeing how there is nothing that comes close to being a carrot, nothing is happening unless ccp nerf empire space to hell.
My point is that if Empire Dwellers do not like the way things are right now, the same tools that Goonswarm et al have used to build their empire are also available for high sec dwellers. If they choose not avail themselves of said tools, then complaining about the way things are at present is as pointless as two bald men fighting over a comb.
It should not require CCP stepping in to solve the problems of either group (barring the possible redistribution of Tech moons). EVE has always been about player choices over and above any mechanic, nerf or buff. If players cannot make the effort to get off their comfortably padded couches and do something for themselves, then they should expect nothing to change. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote: It should not require CCP stepping in to solve the problems of either group (barring the possible redistribution of Tech moons). EVE has always been about player choices over and above any mechanic, nerf or buff. If players cannot make the effort to get off their comfortably padded couches and do something for themselves, then they should expect nothing to change.
Not empty quoting. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lucy Ferrr wrote:Xinivrae wrote:
That right there, that "it's impossible, don't bother to try" mentality is what's keeping you down.
Riiiight, cause my 250 man alliance stands a real good chance in a war for assets against the tens of thousnads of members of the CFC. Every time one of your gangs comes through we destroy it (in admittedly usually good fights), but I am not delusional enough to think we could even make a stand in a real war. You out number us 100 to 1, an some of us don't enjoy playing in TiDi.
while i agree with your reasoning for the analogy. the issue is, us gov't is there to protect the small business as it can't just go and set fire to the walmart.
this is eve. go burn walmart down. |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
175
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
Omnipotence Itself. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.08 17:15:00 -
[60] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:dexington wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:If only 10% of high sec dwellers were to form an alliance, they would likely out number even the largest null sec alliance by 7 to 1. Judging from the public opinion on the forum, you are better off staying in empire. The 0.0 population use to much time complaining about how bad everything is in 0.0, empire seem like a nice place why would anyone leave? Living in empire means more time to shoot at red dots and less time complaining on the forums, and you don't have to take part in the space politics, which seems to be mostly posting on the forums about how great you corp/alliance is, and how terrible everyone else is. There is probably only two ways to get 10% to leave empire space, the carrot or the whip. Seeing how there is nothing that comes close to being a carrot, nothing is happening unless ccp nerf empire space to hell. My point is that if Empire Dwellers do not like the way things are right now, the same tools that Goonswarm et al have used to build their empire are also available for high sec dwellers. If they choose not avail themselves of said tools, then complaining about the way things are at present is as pointless as two bald men fighting over a comb. It should not require CCP stepping in to solve the problems of either group (barring the possible redistribution of Tech moons). EVE has always been about player choices over and above any mechanic, nerf or buff. If players cannot make the effort to get off their comfortably padded couches and do something for themselves, then they should expect nothing to change.
I don't completley agree here.
Your choices currently are rent, or NPC space if you want to go on your own.
Some corps have pulled it, Black Aces went from renter, to trial, to member and onward in -A-. I wish them luck, they were chill as **** to fly with.
NPC space has issues with ability of denial, and renting has basically SOV bills. Eitherway there are bigger fish.
Fact is that supers drive null, and you can't build supers without sov, you "may" be able to buy them, but they don't appear from air, and there isn't a huge market, generally the people with the ability and the security to build them don't farm them out.
All good also.
The catch 22 is you need sov to build supers and you need supers to hold sov. |
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