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Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Am I missing something or does this rule only apply to last years finalists?
Quote:For Alliance Tournament X the referees can call a match null and void or declare a result if they believe that one of the teams is not competing. This tournament is designed to showcase the talents of pilots and should be entertaining.
Since even the commentators are talking about making deals and setting up the result so that each team gets enough points, as if it was fair game.
I'm not actually part of any of the alliance teams, or last years finalists, I just think its a bit unfair to not enforce this rule after excluding certain alliances for straying an inch from said rules.
inb4 "bargaining counts as competing" |
Nakatomi Kamatori
Space Meanies Inc.
2
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
It would seem this kind of bargaining after the victor of the match has been decided through a normal fight is allowed. I think the rule is meant to stop teams from not competing at all. Tbh, I doubt you could stop anything like this from happening, so better we hear of it than it happens behind the scenes. |
Jack bubu
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
340
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
those deals are made after the fate of the match has been decided, the rule aims more towards rigging a game so that one team deliberatly looses from the start. |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
So you're supposed to look at this rule and work that out? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying in that case the rules are terribly written, and given 5 minutes I'm pretty sure anyone with a second level education in English could do better. |
Barkaial Starfinder
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
33
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
This is the great bullshit of this year's tournament.
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Jack bubu
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
340
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Capqu wrote:So you're supposed to look at this rule and work that out? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying in that case the rules are terribly written, and given 5 minutes I'm pretty sure anyone with a second level education in English could do better. dunno for me the "if they believe that one of the teams is not competing" made it clear |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:Capqu wrote:So you're supposed to look at this rule and work that out? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying in that case the rules are terribly written, and given 5 minutes I'm pretty sure anyone with a second level education in English could do better. dunno for me the "if they believe that one of the teams is not competing" made it clear
So, for example, you think selling your last frigate for 2 billion is competing? In case you need it (you need it) here is what competing means in this context:
Quote:Strive to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others who are trying to do the same.
By selling your last ship, I can assure you, you are not trying to win. |
Nakatomi Kamatori
Space Meanies Inc.
2
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Jack bubu wrote:Capqu wrote:So you're supposed to look at this rule and work that out? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying in that case the rules are terribly written, and given 5 minutes I'm pretty sure anyone with a second level education in English could do better. dunno for me the "if they believe that one of the teams is not competing" made it clear So, for example, you think selling your last frigate for 2 billion is competing? In case you need it (you need it) here is what competing means in this context: Quote:Strive to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others who are trying to do the same. By selling your last ship, I can assure you, you are not trying to win.
If you sell it after you have won, you have tried(and succeeded) to win. |
sevyn nine
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
9
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Am I missing something or does this rule only apply to last years finalists? Quote:For Alliance Tournament X the referees can call a match null and void or declare a result if they believe that one of the teams is not competing. This tournament is designed to showcase the talents of pilots and should be entertaining. Since even the commentators are talking about making deals and setting up the result so that each team gets enough points, as if it was fair game. I'm not actually part of any of the alliance teams, or last years finalists, I just think its a bit unfair to not enforce this rule after excluding certain alliances for straying an inch from said rules. inb4 "bargaining counts as competing"
I agree completely. I was under the impression that any sort of deal-making, either before or during the tourney, was forbidden. It wouldn't have helped our team, but I wonder how many other teams didn't do it because they thought CCP would actually enforce their own rules. |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nakatomi Kamatori wrote:Capqu wrote:Jack bubu wrote:Capqu wrote:So you're supposed to look at this rule and work that out? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying in that case the rules are terribly written, and given 5 minutes I'm pretty sure anyone with a second level education in English could do better. dunno for me the "if they believe that one of the teams is not competing" made it clear So, for example, you think selling your last frigate for 2 billion is competing? In case you need it (you need it) here is what competing means in this context: Quote:Strive to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others who are trying to do the same. By selling your last ship, I can assure you, you are not trying to win. If you sell it after you have won, you have tried(and succeeded) to win.
I don't think you understand or know what I am talking about, so let me break it down to your level.
You have one ship left on field, it is a frigate.
The enemy have many elite space ships on the field, they are not frigates.
It looks bleak for you, but you have not lost yet.
The enemy offers you 2 billion space dollars to suicide your final ship.
You accept.
How does constitute competing? |
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dkbjitawhore
Riftside Breach
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 20:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Capqu wrote: How does constitute competing?
Tackling with ISK.
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Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
sevyn nine wrote:Capqu wrote:Am I missing something or does this rule only apply to last years finalists? Quote:For Alliance Tournament X the referees can call a match null and void or declare a result if they believe that one of the teams is not competing. This tournament is designed to showcase the talents of pilots and should be entertaining. Since even the commentators are talking about making deals and setting up the result so that each team gets enough points, as if it was fair game. I'm not actually part of any of the alliance teams, or last years finalists, I just think its a bit unfair to not enforce this rule after excluding certain alliances for straying an inch from said rules. inb4 "bargaining counts as competing" I agree completely. I was under the impression that any sort of deal-making, either before or during the tourney, was forbidden. It wouldn't have helped our team, but I wonder how many other teams didn't do it because they thought CCP would actually enforce their own rules.
That is exactly what I mean, this rule is clearly written to prevent any colluding; however collusion was done today and even analysed and promoted by the commentators, as if it was acceptable. How are we supposed to play a game (something traditionally with very rigid rules) when we have to guess and gamble with which rules CCP will actually enforce? I don't care any of the repercussions that would have happened had these rules been enforced. What I care about is the fact that they just don't seem to give a damn about enforcing the rules half the time, and the other half of the time they ban alliances from even competing! That sets a dangerous precedent, where every time we see a rule we have to question whether its a "real" rule or not, and think about whether our enemies will do the same.
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
230
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:For Alliance Tournament X the referees can call a match null and void or declare a result if they believe that one of the teams is not competing. This tournament is designed to showcase the talents of pilots and should be entertaining. l2r |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
dkbjitawhore wrote:Capqu wrote: How does constitute competing?
Tackling with ISK.
For the alliance paying, yes, it certainly is competing. For the alliance selling, no. |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Quote:For Alliance Tournament X the referees can call a match null and void or declare a result if they believe that one of the teams is not competing. This tournament is designed to showcase the talents of pilots and should be entertaining. l2r
Are you honestly that stupid? Or am I being le trolled xDDddD? Oh golly... |
Vellamo Lyr
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
LMAO PIZZA |
Hench Tenet
The Suicide Kings Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
GB2 factional warfare, bitter ex. |
Black Lorren
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
don't be a bitter pubbie |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Not sure why you guys are talking about my (not space relevant) alliance, but okay, thanks for the bumps.
I wonder if the moderation rules will get enforced? Dice-roll I expect. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1276
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Capqu wrote:The enemy have many elite space ships on the field, they are not frigates.
It looks bleak for you, but you have not lost yet.
Yeah that Keres was going to demolish the Vindicator and Oneiros in the last 20 seconds of the match a rogue goon |
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Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 21:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Capqu wrote:The enemy have many elite space ships on the field, they are not frigates.
It looks bleak for you, but you have not lost yet. Yeah that Keres was going to demolish the Vindicator and Oneiros in the last 20 seconds of the match
I agree, it probably wouldn't have won. I am not denying that. What I am saying is, they clearly didn't compete, which is clearly against the rules. Do you dispute that? If not, why weren't the rules enforced? |
Ophey Won
Stargate SG-1 Fatal Ascension
7
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Posted - 2012.07.08 22:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
The match had already been won by Test. All they did was bribe the last frig to come in close and fight. Oh wait the frig can win. The two point lost dose not hurt the losing team, but help put Test into the finales. |
Zastrow
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
110
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Posted - 2012.07.08 22:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ophey Won wrote:The match had already been won by Test. All they did was bribe the last frig to come in close and fight. Oh wait the frig can win. The two point lost dose not hurt the losing team, but help put Test into the finales.
http://at.eve-ic.net/10/?view=rankings
and 2 points would have moved TEST down like 4 ranks. They made the cut to the groups by the SLIMMEST of margins |
Faife
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
60
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Posted - 2012.07.08 22:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Our team is powered by pizza tears.
This thread makes us strong and we are competing at full force. |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.08 23:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
Faife wrote:Our team is powered by pizza tears.
This thread makes us strong and we are competing at full force.
There is no need to be so defensive, no-one is accusing your team. It was your opponent who violated the rules, not you. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
233
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Posted - 2012.07.09 09:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Capqu wrote:Vera Algaert wrote:Quote:For Alliance Tournament X the referees can call a match null and void or declare a result if they believe that one of the teams is not competing. This tournament is designed to showcase the talents of pilots and should be entertaining. l2r Are you honestly that stupid? Or am I being le trolled xDDddD? Oh golly... I'm honestly that stupid.
It would have been very easy for CCP to write the rule as:
Quote:The Match will be called null and void (or a result will be declared by the referees) if the referees believe that one of the teams is not competing. But instead they chose to word it in a way that gives the referees full discretion over whether to apply penalties or not even if they believe that the match was fixed.
There is no obligation on the referees to enforce this rule. |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.09 09:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
In that vein,
Quote: Participants should be prepared, in their chosen ships and in a fleet, 30 minutes before their scheduled fight time. Teams will be brought by a GM to a star system in uncharted space and designated as Team 1 and Team 2. If you are not ready with this time allocation you will be disqualified from this match and the opposing team will receive maximum points as a result.
They should be, but they don't have to be!
Quote: If your flagship is destroyed, it may not be fielded again during the tournament.
So it might be...
Quote: Teams may field no more than 1 logistics ship.
Then again, maybe they will!
Do you see why what you are saying is nonsense now? |
Khanh'rhh
1384
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
ITT OP tries to twist the semantics on a statment to make it seem like a single EWAR frigate had the only option of running away.
Anything else was not "competing"
Personally I really wanted to watch it avoid the other ships for the rest of the match and feel utterly robbed that I had to both watch it explode AND realize there was metagaming in my EvE.
In case you can't tell, I am being sarrrrrcastic - Homer - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Capqu
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
4
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:ITT OP tries to twist the semantics on a statment to make it seem like a single EWAR frigate had the only option of running away.
Anything else was not "competing"
Personally I really wanted to watch it avoid the other ships for the rest of the match and feel utterly robbed that I had to both watch it explode AND realize there was metagaming in my EvE.
In case you can't tell, I am being sarrrrrcastic - Homer
Twist the semantics? What?
You can't twist semantics. You can argue semantics versus intended meaning, but rules are generally intended to be free from any room for differing interpretations.
Meta-gaming refers to gaming outside of the actual game [in this case the 6v6 match], things like anticipating their fleet comp and bringing a counter. Or in a game of soccer/hand-egg, resting your best players when playing a weaker opponent, to do better overall. Paying off the opponent isn't meta-gaming, it's cheating. No one looks at the Serie A scandal and calls it meta gaming, they call it cheating. |
Khanh'rhh
1384
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:34:00 -
[30] - Quote
Capqu wrote:rules are generally intended to be free from any room for differing interpretations This is both patently false and also the exact reason rules like this ARE deliberately vague.
Quote:Paying off the opponent isn't meta-gaming, it's cheating Can you quote the rule that says this?
Hint: see above for why your answer won't be valid. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
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