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Halete
Echoes of Korgoth Initiative
246
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Your 3B plex-funded Prot nearly died to a peasant Drake?
Sounds like the start of a legal case. Dirty heretical mud-child, reporting in. // Throwing one's hands up in the air and crying 'cal-matar nonsense!' seems to be the new dismissive these days when someone is being neither relevant nor dignified. |
Lost Greybeard
Fenrir's Dogs of War Union 0f Revolution
111
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
Dio Chrysostom wrote: Better ? how is that fair for armor tankers ?
While it should be noted that I'm aware we're trollin' here and not actually srsing, the for serious answer is that part of the ship rebalancing is a general buff to active armor repair (more ships get an amount repaired bonus, especially in Gallente) and the nerf to Neut benefited active armor as much as active shield. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1128
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:16:00 -
[33] - Quote
ITT : people moaning about shield active tanks getting a buff while active armor remains untouched
I wonder if the same people would complain about the shield buffer disadvantages versus armor buffer?
(i.e. give me an XL shield extender) My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
172
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
MinefieldS wrote:Since Dust 543wharever will be on consoles CCP is dumbing down the game for them, hoping some of them will subscribe. What does DUST have anything to do with ASBs? Also this post wreaks of bitterness DUST is not on PC. Get over it man.
Shad0wsFury wrote:Unfortunately, Drakes running ASBs are pretty ridiculous right now, partially because of the Drake's huge natural capacitor and the fact that generally they don't need to use that cap as much as other ships do, leaving a surplus for when the ASB runs out of charges (assuming the person isn't fitting two of them).
What I really don't get, is why CCP nearly made regular shield boosters almost obsolete overnight, and why active shield tanking is getting so much love while active armor tanking has been in the dumpster for 3-4 years. Even before ASBs, active shield tanking was VASTLY superior to active armor tanking in terms of how much DPS you could handle. Without getting too crazy on fittings, you can easily make a handful of BSs tank 3000-4000 dps with REGULAR shield boosters, whereas the max tank on one of the better active armor tanked BSs will get you up to a 1500-2000 dps tank, and that's relatively pimped out too. It's also worth pointing out that armor reps have a much longer cycle time too, which makes you more vulnerable to alpha. I'm sure a good part of the difference in tanking ability can be explained by crystal sets too, but it's a moot point really when the end result has such a drastic disparity between the two types of tanks.
Ironically in the world of supercaps, it's the complete opposite and shield tanks are generally 50%-ish less effective than armor tanks are in terms of effective hitpoints. CCP has already started to address this by releasing deadspace invuln fields, but until some shield equivalent of slave implants are introduced, shield supers will always be sub-par.
Hopefully in this upcoming rebalance CCP will look at some of the issues with active tanking, especially with armor tanks, and will make some effort to start fixing it. I don't expect armor to equal shield at any point with respect to their capabilities, but the gap needs to be narrowed considerably. Nice post and I agree. Not to turn this into a bashing super caps thread, but I would prefer if slave implants simply did not work on capital ships at all, much less super capitals. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
219
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:30:00 -
[35] - Quote
It is CCP's newfangled methodology when it comes to game design, they get to rest their brains (ie. go to work hung over!) by using Trial and Error. They did it with Incursions, rolled back half of changes. They did it with FW and are gathering data to roll back (probably) half the changes .. they'll do it to ASB's too I reckon.
What gets me up in the morning is the anticipation of the day when they launch changes to null sovereignty .. it is going to be non-stop popcorn and internal bleeding from all the laughing .. before they roll it back, since they don't compensate for messing up any more it will be double the fun!. Going to be EPIC |
Kyang Tia
Matari Exodus
1
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
While I agree that a well-fit and flown Proteus can't possibly lose against a Drake, I also believe that ASBs are overpowered.
They have made all normal shield boosters pretty much obsolete except for PvE use. Even in cases where you would pay a few hundred million for a deadspace booster, like on a Maelstrom, 2 ASBs for about 5 million are still vastly better, the only drawback being more CPU cost. Their boost amount is so insane that a dual large ASB fit on a Myrmidon can actually tank about as much than a dual rep fit while doing more dps. You do of course lose med slots by shield tanking the Myrm, but it still doesn't seem right that a shield tank performs about as well as an armor tank on a ship with a 37,5% armor tanking bonus.
Kyang |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1878
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
you almost lost a proteus to an ASB-fitted Drake?
Stop flying that Proteus. You're embarassing it. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Tyraeil Starblade
Ronin Wing
13
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dio Chrysostom wrote:I want to keep playing EvE so much, but as it stands with the changes already made and the ones Propsed to be made. I find myself with nothing left to play for.
Can I haz your things? |
Kyle Ward
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
180
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Posted - 2012.07.09 14:49:00 -
[39] - Quote
hiah guyz i tinK nub shipz r way OP. I was fiteing an iby with mah titan and I couldnt even use mah DoomzDayz on him. It was soooo lame and they need nerf lik yesterday!!!1one!!!21
edit: Did I mention I'm pro? The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong! |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1650
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Posted - 2012.07.09 14:51:00 -
[40] - Quote
Degren wrote:Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
YouGÇÖve got to be kidding me. IGÇÖve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that?
My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like.
ItGÇÖs just common sense. You know... morons. |
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Crimsonjade
Reikoku The Retirement Club
1
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Karma OP. welcome to 2006 for everyone that played from the begining |
Mara Skye
AfterMath. Broken Toys
1
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
And here's me thinking that this was the draw of the game - that a new player with the right skills and ship can STILL best an old player despite the SP difference? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2155
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mara Skye wrote:And here's me thinking that this was the draw of the game - that a new player with the right skills and ship can STILL best an old player despite the SP difference?
Actually yes it is.
However I do think that ASB's should be one of those modules that are limited to 1 per ship, similar to a damage control.
It would still be very effective, but have the danger of the reload time... which would encourage people to get pretty inventive with how they either make hard decisions on when to break off or try to fill that gap in time by other means. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8444
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mara Skye wrote:And here's me thinking that this was the draw of the game - that a new player with the right skills and ship can STILL best an old player despite the SP difference? No no no. Silly capsuleer. The draw of the game is obviously to win only by paying more ISK. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Boomhaur
89
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Posted - 2012.07.09 16:13:00 -
[45] - Quote
Reminds me of my old PVP alt with less than a day of training back when we started with 800k SP. I got into soo many fights with that toon it's not even funny. Held BS's down for 10-20min before, killed cruisers/frigs etc with months or years worth of training on me. Nice to hear others are giving the rich, high SP guys a run for their money by being spec in cheap ships. Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Sharil
Ascendence Corporation
9
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Posted - 2012.07.09 16:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Degren wrote:Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Sincerely
OP
I have. And let me tell you... Today everyone reminds with months giving otherwise. |
Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
67
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Posted - 2012.07.09 17:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
A few things, in no particular order:
1.) Wrong forum section. 2.) You either left out critical details (e.g. ECM drones) or are really, really bad at flying proteuses. 3.) The proteus is easy to counter in 1v1s. If you want a t3 that isn't easy to rock/paper/scissors and isn't the tengu, get a dual web armor loki. 4.) ASBs do need some balancing changes. To all the people saying "BUT IT MADE ACTIVE TANKING USEFUL AGAIN," congratulations. Balancing should NEVER be done by saying **** it and introducing totally new modules. |
Robert Warner
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
42
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Posted - 2012.07.09 17:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
Well this little story certainly verifies that new players can compete with the bitter vets! The chances are that the "newbie" you met was an experienced player's alt: they obviously knew what they were doing.
Having said that, however, there is also a small balancing issue with these new boosters which is becoming apparent (particularly if you have been keeping up with the alliance tournament, which is doing a splendid job of highlighting the issue). More than that, the simple ability to fit multiple ASB units on a ship needs to be scrapped, and this is likely to be addressed soon.
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Komen
Capital Enrichment Services The Night Crew Alliance
101
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Posted - 2012.07.09 17:21:00 -
[49] - Quote
The other day I was chasing down a scimitar who had an ASB fit. My proteus does about half what the OP's stated DPS is, and yet I ALMOST had the bugger - then his domi friend landed and boosted him back up (half structure remaining, I could cry).
It's not over-powered, original poster. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
318
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
The Protato wrote:Lord Aliventi wrote: Dear god mate. You are fail. I mean holy hell. I fly drakes all the time. The is no way buffer or ASB fit I would go near a prot with out back up. If you aren't fail fit you easily have 80-90+ resist to kinetic. If you nearly lost you should just biomass yourself. You've never flown a buffer fit, have you? Doesn't matter what your resists are, if the enemy has pointed you and you can't break their dual x-large ancillary shield booster 2,000 dps tank, YOU'RE GOING TO DIE.
I tried to fit dual x-l ASBs to this Drake, and I just can't. I mean, with implants, it fits, but all of it's lows are fitting mods, and it's got 2 ACR2s and 1 ACR1 in rigs. It puts out like 270dps, which would have killed the OP's Proteus long, long after running out of charges and dying in a fire.
Shad0wsFury wrote:Unfortunately, Drakes running ASBs are pretty ridiculous right now, partially because of the Drake's huge natural capacitor and the fact that generally they don't need to use that cap as much as other ships do, leaving a surplus for when the ASB runs out of charges (assuming the person isn't fitting two of them).
The drake has enough Capacitor to run an X-L ASB for 3 cycles. Fitting 2 (X-Ls, at least) is essentially impossible.
So 16 4s cycles of repping enough to tank ~1200DPS, means you've got a little more than 2 minutes survival against 1k DPS. Against 1k DPS, you'll survive a little more than 1m of tanking it, then less than 1m of grinding you down (you will not live to see your module reload against the 1k DPS the OP is talking about). During that time, the Drake will put out ~60k damage, so even if the module reloads, another minute of repping and (assuming all the armor and structure magically repairs itself) another minute of grinding will not be enough to kill the buffer Prot, pitting 120k damage against the 140k EHP the OP mentioned. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
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Shizuken
Venerated Stars
63
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Degren wrote:Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
YouGÇÖve got to be kidding me. IGÇÖve been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. ItGÇÖs just common sense.
Holy **** man! I was thinking something similar but far as you went to nail the head on the issue is even go want to further than I did |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:40:00 -
[52] - Quote
Dio Chrysostom wrote: Even with all those odds in my favor I almost lost a 3 billion isk ship to a complete noob with 4 months worth of SP and no prior PvP experience.
Can I have your ship? |
DeadPool MercWithAMouth
Diplomacy Has Failed Fade 2 Black
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:49:00 -
[53] - Quote
I believe, as I've mentioned in other post the ASB is the biggest fail CCP has done since Incarna. Everyone will fit them, they will be boring and as common as warp disruptors. Their is no counter. Armor tanks are obsolete, and so is every EFT fit i have done it the past. I have Gallente fits with ASB that are better now than they have ever been with armor, which is completely inconstant with the roll of the race or ship. My ASB dominix with 1000+ tank and 1500 dps can never be match by any armor tank BS in the game; which is fundamentally broken. I believe CCP may have been trying to nurf neutralizers by creating this module and failed. Many mention how Gallente can do shield fits, which is true but the design of the ASB allows ships with boosting attributes to benefit the most due to the increased boost-per-cap ratio, allowing a longer survival time. All Modules should scale well not only by Race, but also in ship size. Stories of assault frigs that have killed battle ships will be a thing of the past, then myth. Armor ships in general have needed a big boost, but have been neglected and rightly should be tougher than shields in my opinion. People posting "its not over-powered" either don't fly armor ships or are more invested in killing unknowing individuals while the booster still exist (which should have the graphic changed to a rainbow-flashing colored star). |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
322
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
DeadPool MercWithAMouth wrote:Their is no counter.
You mean besides waiting 60s for charges to run out?
Or with 2 of them, waiting until the cargo empties? -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
127
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
Wait this OP guy is mad because he has to adapt?
He fails at eve. Eve forums official anthem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA-áReal men tank hull. Fake women shield-tank Gallente. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
323
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:16:00 -
[56] - Quote
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:Wait this OP guy is mad because he has to adapt?
He fails at eve.
The best part about it is that he doesn't have to adapt. He just has to not be terrible at flying a Proteus. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
144
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:31:00 -
[57] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:The Protato wrote:Lord Aliventi wrote: Dear god mate. You are fail. I mean holy hell. I fly drakes all the time. The is no way buffer or ASB fit I would go near a prot with out back up. If you aren't fail fit you easily have 80-90+ resist to kinetic. If you nearly lost you should just biomass yourself. You've never flown a buffer fit, have you? Doesn't matter what your resists are, if the enemy has pointed you and you can't break their dual x-large ancillary shield booster 2,000 dps tank, YOU'RE GOING TO DIE. I tried to fit dual x-l ASBs to this Drake, and I just can't. I mean, with implants, it fits, but all of it's lows are fitting mods, and it's got 2 ACR2s and 1 ACR1 in rigs. It puts out like 270dps, which would have killed the OP's Proteus long, long after running out of charges and dying in a fire. Shad0wsFury wrote:Unfortunately, Drakes running ASBs are pretty ridiculous right now, partially because of the Drake's huge natural capacitor and the fact that generally they don't need to use that cap as much as other ships do, leaving a surplus for when the ASB runs out of charges (assuming the person isn't fitting two of them). The drake has enough Capacitor to run an X-L ASB for 3 cycles. Fitting 2 (X-Ls, at least) is essentially impossible (And 1 X-L is better than 2 Larges). So 16 4s cycles of repping enough to tank ~1200DPS, means you've got a little more than 2 minutes survival against 1k DPS. Against 1k DPS, you'll survive a little more than 1m of tanking it, then less than 1m of grinding you down (you will not live to see your module reload against the 1k DPS the OP is talking about). During that time, the Drake will put out ~60k damage, so even if the module reloads, another minute of repping and (assuming all the armor and structure magically repairs itself) another minute of grinding will not be enough to kill the buffer Prot, pitting 120k damage against the 140k EHP the OP mentioned.
Just a thought but - 1k DPS from a Proteus is done with blasters.
That requires point-blank range to bring it to bear. Check it at different ranges and you'll find those numbers drop quite a bit and the OP's post has references to running around and high-speeds - meaning he probably wasn't within optimal to deliver all that EFT warrioring potential damage. As such, he probably had much lower DPS numbers.
Adjust it to a bit over double the time window to get closer. 4.5 minutes - pushing out say... 450 DPS from the drake still only takes it to just over 120k damage delivered but far more reliably than that gunship can pull off. That is still well inside his claim of 140k EHP but also in that "uncomfortable" zone towards the end.
Honestly it still smacks strongly of a whine about a specific fight. If the tourney shows the ASB to be OP, I imagine CCP will adjust it pretty fast. 1 per ship seems fitting.
BTW - a "4 month old noob" - probably an alt. As such, a focused build would yield between 1.5-2 mill SP per month -- 6-8 mill SP on that char. That puts it in a decent fit range for a drake. |
Zelda Wei
New Horizon Trade Exchange
171
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:38:00 -
[58] - Quote
If you want to be taken seriously, don't act like a six year old ending sentences with adverbs. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
473
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
Von Mukesh wrote:Aren't there severe penalties to the cpu (or is it cap?) to use these new mods?
Welp, the thing is that you can put more than one of those in some ships and then skill factor means absolutely nothing, your tank just becomes unbreakable and as long as you can fit a point and use mwd even with low dps you WILL kill your enemy.
I have some questions I'd like CCP to give an answer:
-why does it rep that much
-why they don't have fitting limitations (number you can fit)
So actually pvp in eve and fittings is quite easy: if you don't fly Drakes or Canes you're a noob and if you fit plates and armor tank you're also a stupid noob but if you solo pvp and don't use ASB Canes or Drakes you're definitively stupid and don't get Eve.
Amirite?
I still think this module idea is great however the amount it reps and the fact you can use more than one mod per ship is plain stupid and bad overtime. brb |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
327
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Posted - 2012.07.09 20:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:The Protato wrote:Lord Aliventi wrote: Dear god mate. You are fail. I mean holy hell. I fly drakes all the time. The is no way buffer or ASB fit I would go near a prot with out back up. If you aren't fail fit you easily have 80-90+ resist to kinetic. If you nearly lost you should just biomass yourself. You've never flown a buffer fit, have you? Doesn't matter what your resists are, if the enemy has pointed you and you can't break their dual x-large ancillary shield booster 2,000 dps tank, YOU'RE GOING TO DIE. I tried to fit dual x-l ASBs to this Drake, and I just can't. I mean, with implants, it fits, but all of it's lows are fitting mods, and it's got 2 ACR2s and 1 ACR1 in rigs. It puts out like 270dps, which would have killed the OP's Proteus long, long after running out of charges and dying in a fire. Shad0wsFury wrote:Unfortunately, Drakes running ASBs are pretty ridiculous right now, partially because of the Drake's huge natural capacitor and the fact that generally they don't need to use that cap as much as other ships do, leaving a surplus for when the ASB runs out of charges (assuming the person isn't fitting two of them). The drake has enough Capacitor to run an X-L ASB for 3 cycles. Fitting 2 (X-Ls, at least) is essentially impossible (And 1 X-L is better than 2 Larges). So 16 4s cycles of repping enough to tank ~1200DPS, means you've got a little more than 2 minutes survival against 1k DPS. Against 1k DPS, you'll survive a little more than 1m of tanking it, then less than 1m of grinding you down (you will not live to see your module reload against the 1k DPS the OP is talking about). During that time, the Drake will put out ~60k damage, so even if the module reloads, another minute of repping and (assuming all the armor and structure magically repairs itself) another minute of grinding will not be enough to kill the buffer Prot, pitting 120k damage against the 140k EHP the OP mentioned. Just a thought but - 1k DPS from a Proteus is done with blasters. That requires point-blank range to bring it to bear. Check it at different ranges and you'll find those numbers drop quite a bit and the OP's post has references to running around and high-speeds - meaning he probably wasn't within optimal to deliver all that EFT warrioring potential damage. As such, he probably had much lower DPS numbers. Adjust it to a bit over double the time window to get closer. 4.5 minutes - pushing out say... 450 DPS from the drake still only takes it to just over 120k damage delivered but far more reliably than that gunship can pull off. That is still well inside his claim of 140k EHP but also in that "uncomfortable" zone towards the end. Honestly it still smacks strongly of a whine about a specific fight. If the tourney shows the ASB to be OP, I imagine CCP will adjust it pretty fast. 1 per ship seems fitting. BTW - a "4 month old noob" - probably an alt. As such, a focused build would yield between 1.5-2 mill SP per month -- 6-8 mill SP on that char. That puts it in a decent fit range for a drake.
If he wasn't able to close within range with a 300m/s speed advantage (you're not going to be able to Nano a drake while doing 450dps and fitting an X-L ASB), then he is a terrible pilot, and should be ashamed.
Like I said in my first post, either he's lying about numbers or he's terrible at piloting. You can't assume that he's not able to put all his damage on the target but turn around and say that his speed's not going to negate a good portion of the Drake's damage. A MWDing Proteus has a Sig of ~950, so if he's moving around at his 1400m/s, he'll only be taking 290dps (per Pyfa's graphs) from the 3x BCU Drake, for a total of 78k damage over the 4.5m long fight.
The torney rules limit you to 1 ASB per ship, but that's because of the very limited amount of DPS the tourney format allows. In the rest of EvE, the ASB isn't nearly as useful as it is in the time and team limited tourney. -RubyPorto
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