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Lancezh
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 10:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
I posted in the Ships / Module forum to get fittings for an occator / viator but i would like to ask you guys regardless of fittings specifically about your tactics to avoid HighSec Gankers.
I got killed yesterday in HighSec (0.5) in an Iteron V... from a sniping Tornado with 1400mm's while jumping manually from gate to gate and it was over very quick, resulting in me losing 50% of my wallet worth in assets :( although i even had intertias fitted so i can align faster, it didnt help i was obviously to stupid to do it right.
However, as i already mentioned in the other thread i'm very unfamiliar with how a suicider operates in HighSec in the first place and how i should counter it. Some people say even a Blockade Runner wont protect me, someone else suggested to contract the stuff so it can't be scanned.
How do you go on about this stuff in HighSec ? Whats the weakness of such gankers ? What can i do ?
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Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
134
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Posted - 2012.07.09 10:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
although the training requirements are a pain; orca.
unscannable cargo hold that drops nothing when suicided with 200k ehp. failing that, if you're looking at a blockade runner then they're a nice option. after you practice a bit you can click warp and cloak [in that order] and be cloaked up before any one can lock you.
if all of the above doesn't sound appealing; courier contracts. sure it takes a bit of time, costs a bit of isk, but other people take the risk and worry and you can sit around doing whatever you want in the mean time. if the person accepting the contract goes pop, you get the collateral and you've only lost a bit of time waiting for them to fail the contract. |
Abon
Pandorum Research Incorporated
57
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Posted - 2012.07.09 10:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
A cloaky Transport is what i use for moving high value goods around. Never got ganked with one. For everything else like huge amounts of ore or modules just create a contract with according collateral. |
Estel Again
Defense Industries
31
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
istabs are the Devil. Help you align faster, also helps the enemy lock you faster. Get nanofibers. Don't use shield extenders (same problem as above); pick resistance mods instead. Use your cloak immediately after you've jumped; uncloak just before you hit the next gate (practice a bit to be uncloaked and ready to jump as you hit the gate, but not before). Don't take the shortest route.
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Shameless Avenger
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
147
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
First... a Viator is a Blockade Runner. But an Occator is not. The ship/fit you are looking for is a Viator Fit.
2nd... People are right in that a Viator alone is not gonna help you. It is the tactics that you can use on a well fitted Viator what will give you an edge.
3rd... What you do is, you align to gate, hit mwd, hit cloak, hit jump. When you do this, you de-cloak to align but cloak right back and warp while cloak, making it very difficult for the enemy to get a target lock.
However... This setup gives you like 3000m3 if I remember correctly. I'm gonna take a guess and assume you were using an iteron fit with a cargo-hold many times bigger. The Viator tactic will make you safeER, but you will make 10 times more trips to move the stuff. When you divide the overall cargo from 30k m3 to 3k m3, sometimes is not profitable to gank you, even if you are flying an iteron.
There are more complex tactics like avoiding heavily travel routes, docking in a few stations along the way and changing ships/pilots. Each anti-ganking tactic adds pain and reduces the isk per hour ratio of whatever it is that you are doing. Like everything in eve, risk vs reward. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
133
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
My alt runs a viator around hisec when I'm moving things. It's damn near impossible to get caught in a blockade runner in hisec when jumping gates (undocks are more risky, but set up insta-undocks on the main systems you use and you're fine) |
pussnheels
450
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
all of the above and learn how the mwd cloak trick works , you willbe very hard to catch I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Lancezh
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
So many valuable tips, thank you very very much. |
Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
258
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
you need to tank some damage. thats all.
a t3 bc will hurt u |
Celeste Taylor
Ruby Dynasty
48
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
How much tank is enough to be reasonably defended with a battleship in high sec for smaller high valuable cargo, or is this even an option? Is having dual 1600mm , dual LARs, DC II and some caps for energy on a Navy Dominix good enough to keep you alive while you AB it back to the gate in High Sec? |
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Lancezh
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Celeste Taylor wrote:How much tank is enough to be reasonably defended with a battleship in high sec for smaller high valuable cargo, or is this even an option? Is having dual 1600mm , dual LARs, DC II and some caps for energy on a Navy Dominix good enough to keep you alive while you AB it back to the gate in High Sec?
Why using an AB at all ? all i do is warp from gate to gate manually. No bubbles in hi sec obviously, or am i getting something wrong ? |
Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
317
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cloak first!!!!!!!
MWD is still available for a second after and blows up your sig by 500%
Viator is fine for medium sized loads ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Cebraio
Starfire Oasis
148
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Celeste Taylor wrote:How much tank is enough to be reasonably defended with a battleship in high sec for smaller high valuable cargo, or is this even an option? Is having dual 1600mm , dual LARs, DC II and some caps for energy on a Navy Dominix good enough to keep you alive while you AB it back to the gate in High Sec?
In case of hauling in a BS (or Occator). I don't use armor repairers. Even though Occator gets a bonus to repair amount, I think it's more useful to have a buffer tank (no activation necessary + no delay). So you fit as much armor plates and resistance plates as possible. Also a DCU II, but that needs activation. AB'ing to the gate is probably too slow to give you any advantage. MWD'ing would work, in case of the BS. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
73
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lancezh wrote:I posted in the Ships / Module forum to get fittings for an occator / viator but i would like to ask you guys regardless of fittings specifically about your tactics to avoid HighSec Gankers.
I got killed yesterday in HighSec (0.5) in an Iteron V... from a sniping Tornado with 1400mm's while jumping manually from gate to gate and it was over very quick, resulting in me losing 50% of my wallet worth in assets :( although i even had intertias fitted so i can align faster, it didnt help i was obviously to stupid to do it right.
However, as i already mentioned in the other thread i'm very unfamiliar with how a suicider operates in HighSec in the first place and how i should counter it. Some people say even a Blockade Runner wont protect me, someone else suggested to contract the stuff so it can't be scanned.
How do you go on about this stuff in HighSec ? Whats the weakness of such gankers ? What can i do ?
go for mods/rigs enhancing your inertia (time you need to get into warp depends on it) rather than cargo extension. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
614
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
Viator is paper thin. The 5% armor rep bonus is a joke since you'll never get to use the repper. So forget tanking it.
Kick all cargo expanders and rigs out of it. Just forget using them at all.
Go for maximum warp velocity (rig), and maxed out agility (1 rig rest low mods).
Slap a target break mod on it in a mid slot tough if you need that you're already in big trouble.
Have evasive maneuvering, transport ship and navigation skills at 5. Additionally add an agility implant to your head.
Don't fly afk and you should be nigh impossible to catch. Though you can always have bad luck, like getting decloaked by concord or have a really bad bump.. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8437
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
The thing about blockade runners is that if you have to rely on their tank, you've already largely failed.
Its first line of defence is its cloak GÇö they can't target you for attacks or scans if you're not on the overview, and that should only happen for a split second. The second line of defence is the inherent agility (which can be further enhanced) GÇö if they try to get you decloaked, you are no longer there, and if something keeps the cloak from working, you're out of there ASAP.
The tank is to protect against the (veeeeeery) occasional smartbomb camp you might land in, which is also why you might want to uncloak manually at the end of each warp GÇö so you can turn any hardeners on. But even without any kind of tank active, a BR should be able to survive four full volleys of smart bombs (which will require multiple ships to deliver). The same tank should also be enough to keep you safe from an alpha volley or so (and afer the first one, you should be long gone), but again, if it has come to that, something has already gone horribly horribly wrongGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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pussnheels
450
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Celeste Taylor wrote:How much tank is enough to be reasonably defended with a battleship in high sec for smaller high valuable cargo, or is this even an option? Is having dual 1600mm , dual LARs, DC II and some caps for energy on a Navy Dominix good enough to keep you alive while you AB it back to the gate in High Sec? no tank is ever enough if a dedicated group of gankers is out there to get haulers nothing is enough only thing you can hope for is that you are not the easiest target I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
483
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Posted - 2012.07.09 11:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Celeste Taylor wrote:How much tank is enough to be reasonably defended with a battleship in high sec for smaller high valuable cargo, or is this even an option? Is having dual 1600mm , dual LARs, DC II and some caps for energy on a Navy Dominix good enough to keep you alive while you AB it back to the gate in High Sec?
Lose the armour-reppers for 2 EANM IIs, you want buffer + resists to survive an alpha-gank. Those reppers will never cycle fast enough to save you.
Your lows (standard Domi = 6 lo slots, IIRC?) should be:
DCU II 2x 1600mm plates 2x EANM II 1x Explosive energised plating
Mids:
Put an MWD in
Hi:
Improved Cloaking Device II
If that buffer isn't enough, then well, you would have died regardless, probably.
Carry your "normal" fit for PvE or whatever plus cargo in your hold till you get where you're going, and refit there.
And, learn the Cloak/MWD maneouvre.
In irae, veritas. |
HalfArse
Dark Matter Avionics Caldari Navy Reserve
5
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
I used to use cloaky haulers in high sec thinking I was untouchable.....then one day I landed on jita 4-4....only i landed just outside of docking range and in the very small space of time it took to get into range and be pulled in I was Alpha'd by some sniper......lost about a bill and learned a very important lesson.
Since then I ahve used nothing but the tanky haulers and they have saved my cargo on a number of occations....for high value low volume cargo (roughly 6k m3) you can fill all the low slots with tank mods (im gallente :D) and you still get a 2+ warp strength. Even sacraficing some low slots for expanders you can have an ok tank.
The tank is more than enough to keep you alive while you align and warp, or if they do get 3+ points on you the tank is enough to survive longer than they do against concord or slow boat back to the gate or wait for friends to arrive.....course if they have 3+ points AND your at war AND bump you off gate AND you have no friends then you are (eventually) screwed. |
Estel Again
Defense Industries
31
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
HalfArse wrote:.then one day I landed on jita 4-4....only i landed just outside of docking range and in the very small space of time it took to get into range and be pulled in I was Alpha'd by some sniper......lost about a bill and learned a very important lesson. The lesson being of course to use a bookmark ~300 km above/below the station instead of warping directly to the station.
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Lancezh
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Estel Again wrote:HalfArse wrote:.then one day I landed on jita 4-4....only i landed just outside of docking range and in the very small space of time it took to get into range and be pulled in I was Alpha'd by some sniper......lost about a bill and learned a very important lesson. The lesson being of course to use a bookmark ~300 km above/below the station instead of warping directly to the station.
That would solve what ? He still would have to warp into station ultimately, no ? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8441
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Posted - 2012.07.09 12:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Estel Again wrote:HalfArse wrote:.then one day I landed on jita 4-4....only i landed just outside of docking range and in the very small space of time it took to get into range and be pulled in I was Alpha'd by some sniper......lost about a bill and learned a very important lesson. The lesson being of course to use a bookmark ~300 km above/below the station instead of warping directly to the station. GǪand to use a bookmark at far below zero range (as in: right next to the station hull), and warp to that rather than to the station. Every station GÇö including the kick-out ones GÇö will have spots where you can get closer to the station than the range indicator suggests.
Caldari administrative stations (e.g. Jita 4-4) in particular have so many nooks and crannies well within docking range that it's pretty much effortless to create autodock spots.
Lancezh wrote:That would solve what ? He still would have to warp into station ultimately, no ? It solves the problem of him coming from a predictable angle and thus arriving where everyone else arrives. Combine this with what I wrote and he'll also arrive at a unpredictable spot (a spot where the autopilot will autodock him the instant he comes out of warp). This means that the ganker can no longer park himself at the perfect range from the spot and just F1 anything that arrives in high sights. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Lancezh
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ah interesting to know, i shall absorb that wisdom and use it to my advantage =)
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Skorpynekomimi
234
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Estel Again wrote:HalfArse wrote:.then one day I landed on jita 4-4....only i landed just outside of docking range and in the very small space of time it took to get into range and be pulled in I was Alpha'd by some sniper......lost about a bill and learned a very important lesson. The lesson being of course to use a bookmark ~300 km above/below the station instead of warping directly to the station.
Or maybe just your insta-undock bookmark. Personally, I just don't carry around what I can't afford to lose. Especially to trade hubs.
- T1 industrials are like wet paper bags full of candy. Not safe, but convenient for dragging low-value crap around. - Cloaky stuff relies on being sneaky and stealthy. Fit a mwd and invuln anyway; you never know when you might need them to burn away from something decloaking you. - Tanked Orcas are gank-resistant. Usually not worth trying. - Avoid major chokepoints. This means insta-undock bookmarks, not warping direct to stations, etc.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
489
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Posted - 2012.07.09 13:18:00 -
[25] - Quote
If you're using a blockade runner, in highsec, forget the microwarp drive.
select the gate, hit jump, activate your cloak. (can't activate the cloak until your gate cloak falls. which needs movement)
As blockade runners can fit covert cloaks, you can warp cloaked. With a couple of nano, you'll warp in about 2 seconds, so a mwd is no help at all. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Shad0wsFury
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
78
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:28:00 -
[26] - Quote
As others have said, if you can fit a covert ops cloak on your viator, you can warp cloaked and as long as you're manually piloting you'll be fine. You'll be limited to just over 10,000 m3 of cargo space though, even if you rig and fit for max cargo (which you can do if you can warp cloaked, because nobody is ever gonna lock you before you can cloak, just don't go into 0.0 and get bubbled).
Instead of giving you specific ships/setups, I will tell you as a former highsec suicide ganker that the only thing you really need to consider is how many ships (and how much isk are the gankers going to have to spend) to kill your ship. I will tell you that a BS with a good tank should take between 8-20 (depending on a lot of things) alpha ships to one-volley you. I don't know exactly what a gank tornado costs, but say about 75m for simplicity. Your cargo would have to be worth at least 600m for them to break even, and it's likely that they need to split the profits between 8 or so people too, so at a minimum I'd imagine you'd be safe with 400m or more in cargo value beyond that, probably more (I'd be pissed if I only got ship value plus 50m back from a gank, but maybe some poors would be happy with that v0v).
The majority of gankers aren't doing it ONLY to harvest tears (there are much more efficient ways to do that), most of them are in it for the MONEY. If you make it uneconomical for them to gank you, then you should be pretty safe.
Also, as others have mentioned, the Orca is a good choice too, and it can haul more than just about any industrial or transport, and do it safer. Keep in mind though, CCP is planning (or already have, I don't know) to start having contents of ship maintenance bays and corporate hanger bays start dropping loot, and probably show up on cargo scanners at some point too. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1591
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
I use blockade runners in low a lot.
Rigs and low slots are all agility mods. High slot is cloak. I like to keep a medium shield extender in a mid just in case I jump into a bunch of smarties.
I have yet to lose one.
Mr Epeen There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks |
Boomhaur
89
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
For raw simplicity I like to think that each Tornado does 10k alpha and worse case scenerio in some systems they can get off 2 shots before being concorded, so for arguments sake each Tornado does 20k dmg and cost 75mil. Lets say your using a BS which has 200k EHP, which is easily obtainable in fully passive armor tank ship like the Abbandon it will take 10 Tornado's to take you down (plus a few extra for good measure, but lets not bother with that). So 10 x 75mil = 750mil is the cost to them, there is roughly 50% drop rate for loot off memory so the breaking even point is 1.5bil on that particular ship in loot/modules.
This is how I like to do things for how to figure out if your worth being ganked, it overestimates your opponent slightly but that is not a bad thing in this case. And in MY opinion if you have to ask if your worth being ganked and a lone Thrasher (or a few) can do it, the answer is yes your at risk.
Simple way to mess with suicide gankers is to double wrap your cargo if your in a high EHP ship. Basically put the cargo in a cargo container and than give it to your alt who than assigns a courier contract to yourself so it's shrink wraped. This way when somone scans your ship they will see the cargo container and not it's contents. In general this means your carrying something valuable, in paper thin ships you pop them. In high EHP ships it's a very large gambe to do so, so the likely hood of someone trying is smaller. This is assuming they didn't change this method which I don't thing they have.
Than there is the MWD + Cloak trick, you basically use them both together and you can warp immediately after you drop your cloak before someone can get a lock. Look it up on youtube for how it's done, thats the easiest way to learn this one.
Lastly don't afk with valuable cargo even in high EHP ships, if the cargo is cheap go for it. Expensive = manual jumps all the way. This is my rule with high EHP ships ONLY, as they can survive a heavy beating and aren't prime targets to gank for fun. Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
Unit757
North Point Cannabis Legionis
9
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don' really move much around, but for the most part ive never had an issue with t1 industrials. Im not sure what ittys can do, but my badger mkiis run with about 28k ehp, and 8k m3 cargo space. with its resists itl take two volleys from two torados to take just its shields down in a 0.5 system. Just make sure your hauling the appropriate value for the ship, don't stuff faction mods in one. If its anything more then ammunition or modules for a couple ships, use an Orca. That thing will easily put out over 270k ehp, aswell as its corp hanger is unscannable, and wont drop its contents, making ganks less worthwhile. |
Boomhaur
89
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Posted - 2012.07.09 15:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Unit757 wrote:I don' really move much around, but for the most part ive never had an issue with t1 industrials. Im not sure what ittys can do, but my badger mkiis run with about 28k ehp, and 8k m3 cargo space. with its resists itl take two volleys from two torados to take just its shields down in a 0.5 system. Just make sure your hauling the appropriate value for the ship, don't stuff faction mods in one. If its anything more then ammunition or modules for a couple ships, use an Orca. That thing will easily put out over 270k ehp, aswell as its corp hanger is unscannable, and wont drop its contents, making ganks less worthwhile.
Strangely enough not all industrial pilots tank their ships, I have seen quite a few with empty mids or leave their EM hole open. Than there are those who have hardeners who just never turn them on Welcome to Eve. Everyone here is an Evil Sick Sadistic Bastard who is out to get you. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to scam you or use you. |
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