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Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
While the latest patch gave the awesome ancillary shield boosters, all the armor tanks got was this crap armor resistance shifting hardener, that you need to train a skill to have it become useful... THe problem is at lvl5, this skill doubles the modules energy consumption by halving its cycle time.
This is quite obviously a crap solution, and it seems quite obvious that if you are going to have a skill to reduce the cycle time of this modules, then the skill should also reduce the energy used per cycle |
Daria Meridian Carlile
Platinum-Tech-Industry
18
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:While the latest patch gave the awesome ancillary shield boosters, all the armor tanks got was this crap armor resistance shifting hardener, that you need to train a skill to have it become useful... THe problem is at lvl5, this skill doubles the modules energy consumption by halving its cycle time.
This is quite obviously a crap solution, and it seems quite obvious that if you are going to have a skill to reduce the cycle time of this modules, then the skill should also reduce the energy used per cycle
"Repair Systems" skill does the exact same thing to Armor Repairers, working as intended. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2012.07.09 18:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
the difference is that repair systems doesn't change the bonus per unit of capacitor.
Your armor reppers still repair the same amount of HP per unit cap. Repair faster ,use cap faster, thats fine But that doesn't carry over to resists
Use more cap, still receive same resist bonus.
If this is how they intended, then its clear their intent was poorly conceived
They buffed shield tanking with the ancilaries, the counterpart "buff" for armor is a joke. They buffed caldari and winmatar relative to gal and amarr... who would have guessed it... |
mxzf
Blackened Skies
1888
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Use more cap, still receive same resist bonus.
Actually, it's "use more cap, adjust your resists to the damage quicker". |
Daria Meridian Carlile
Platinum-Tech-Industry
18
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:the difference is that repair systems doesn't change the bonus per unit of capacitor.
Your armor reppers still repair the same amount of HP per unit cap. Repair faster ,use cap faster, thats fine But that doesn't carry over to resists
Use more cap, still receive same resist bonus.
If this is how they intended, then its clear their intent was poorly conceived
They buffed shield tanking with the ancilaries, the counterpart "buff" for armor is a joke. They buffed caldari and winmatar relative to gal and amarr... who would have guessed it...
With repair systems, you repair more often (so, more hp/sec) and you use cap more often (so more cap/sec used)
With Armor Resistance Phasing you adjust more often (so reaching max resist faster, less hp lost in the process) and you use cap more often (so more cap/sec)
Works as intended |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2012.07.09 19:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
and once fully adapted, which shouldnt take long, you get no benefit, and such twice the cap, and if you ever turn it off momentarily, you lose that adjusting time, and need to re adjust again |
Kadeyoo
BS And UNICORNS Inc Black Pearl Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.07.10 13:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shifting to incoming damage profile quicker is very useful. While coming at a cap cost, this is not an issue unless you are PvEing. And in that case, it's better to either use specific hardeners - which is no problem since you always know what to expect. And if you fight Sleepers, you usually don't use that many hardeners to justify that Reactive Armor Hardener to get around stacking penalties.
In PvP it may be different for ships that are likely to receive punishment for a prolonged duration (Capital ships, supercapitals, certain battleships like Bhaalgorn). But those ships tend to have huge excess cap and/or are likely to have people feeding them with energy transfer. Suddenly the minorly increased cap usage is no longer a problem, and the faster your module shifts resistances, the less damage you take overall - or the faster your logistical ships/carriers can apply more effective reps on you - well worth that bit of cap.
The module is for tanking damage at the cost of some capacitor. Considering we have passive EANMs and ANPs, and practically passive Damage Control, and most armor battleships tend to have a large base capacitor and relatively low cap recharge time - it's fine. Not an issue.
T-Down |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
34
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Posted - 2012.07.10 13:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
minor increase ?! That must be a joke.
Well, it's only equivalent to 2 adaptive invulnerability field on ship which already use their cap for their weapons after all...
BTW, I think T2 version may be usable with at least 20% for each resist. |
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2012.07.10 13:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
It is not comparable to the repair systems skill, repair systems does not double the cap cost.
Kadeyoo wrote:The module is for tanking damage at the cost of some capacitor.
This is true but perhaps some it is important to understand what some capacitor is.
At level five skills
Reactive Armour Hardener 8.4 cap/s
Small Armour Repairer II -8.9 cap/s
A small energy neutralizer II neuts you by -9 cap/s.
So on a Frigate you choose between this or another SARII. LetGÇÖs say this mod is at least broken for frigates/destroyers.
It is not much better on cruisers a PVE or PVP cruiser cannot sustain this sort of cap pressure on top of other mods for long, no cap means a rest of the resists. It makes it unusable with any kind of active tank and difficult to run with a Microwarpdrive. Perhaps on a Buffer fit battle cruiser but nothing smaller.
I do not believe the mod is viable on anything less than a Cap ship, perhaps a Marauder or a Strategic cruiser heavy on cap recharge.
Yes it probably is a good mod for armour caps. Did armour Caps need an EHP Buff?
This was my feedback in one of the original threads
Alticus C Bear wrote:I do not dispute the reduced cycle time and cap usage increase trade off as a skill.
Look at repair systems, total reduction in repair duration of 25% this has an associated cap cost but it is useful.
If a mod requires a 50% reduction in cycle time then this doubles the cap cost. This suggests there is an issue with the original cycle time and cap cost. I support the skill but would like to see the cap cost adjusted to a sort of half-way house where the mod ultimately uses less cap than it does now but with a higher cap cost than the existing amount at level 5 due to the increased power of the mod. This mod at level five is broken for frigates and probably cruisers, you could perhaps use it on something like a cap boosting repping myrm, and anything battleship and above.
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Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2012.07.11 06:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
With the armor rep cycle time reduction, you can manually pause the repper to modulate its cap consumption, and yo get the same benefit per unit cap.
This is not so with the reactive armor hardener. They need to have a commensurate energy usage reduction for it to be viable. |
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Kadeyoo
BS And UNICORNS Inc Black Pearl Alliance
13
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Posted - 2012.07.11 13:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:With the armor rep cycle time reduction, you can manually pause the repper to modulate its cap consumption, and yo get the same benefit per unit cap.
This is not so with the reactive armor hardener. They need to have a commensurate energy usage reduction for it to be viable.
No kidding, an armor hardener is not the same as an armor repairer. I hereby award you with the Medal of Captain Obvious.
I don't get it why somebody compared the RAH, an SAR and a small neut.
The RAH is not meant to be fitted to frigates. It's primary usage is for ships that receive prolonged punishment with damage sources that you could not predict. This by nature also makes irrelevant for PvE (because you know what damage you will be receiving beforehand) - or squishy ships.
RAH works the way it is, it is a new concept. The skill simply pushes the RAH further into the direction where it's most useful for: Overtanked battleships (neuting Bhaalgorn), capital ships and supercapital ships. Those ships generally don't die to alpha (well, capitals can die to DD alpha, but still) - but if focused heavily, they can drop rather quickly - this is where the RAH comes into play.
Now do any ships where the RAH makes sense on - ignoring the capacitor cost to begin with - have an issue with this small added capacitor cost? No.
And even if they had an issue: Capacitor is a resource. Yes, it's a ***** you cannot get everything in life cap stable. Deal with it. You get fed with a module that makes armor buffer tanking more viable than ever, you get a sweet skill that improves on it, and you still bite the hand that is feeding.
Learn to fit Capacitor Boosters and broadcast for capacitor.
Also note, that with the skill maxed, you can still turn it off when you are no longer being shot at. And if you are focused again, turn it on - suddenly the skill will allow for faster adaption. Besides, unless the exact same people focus you again, the damage profile you receive will be different anyhow. You don't keep your local repper running if you are no longer being shot at either, right?
Oh right, it resets the shift resistances! Well, I guess your *real* problem with this item is that it consumes capacitor while it's not shifting. This again is how the module works. Learn to deal with it.
This is not a problem.
RAH is totally viable, and the skill is worth it. |
Verity Sovereign
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
212
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Posted - 2012.07.12 06:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
So its a module for armor capitals based on your above post.... great idea... Those things needed a buff, and new content should be focused on them because so many people fly them.
So sub capital, it blows. Its not for PvE, and for PvP you won't live that long if you are being shot at in a sub cap, and during those initialy volleys, it provides less protection than an invuln field while sucking up twice the cap....
Great module + skill |
Kadeyoo
BS And UNICORNS Inc Black Pearl Alliance
16
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Posted - 2012.07.12 06:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:So its a module for armor capitals based on your above post.... great idea... Those things needed a buff, and new content should be focused on them because so many people fly them.
So sub capital, it blows. Its not for PvE, and for PvP you won't live that long if you are being shot at in a sub cap, and during those initialy volleys, it provides less protection than an invuln field while sucking up twice the cap....
Great module + skill
It depends, they work great for battleships, though it's often questionable whether you have the lowslots to fit it. And for small to mid scale PvP battleships can - unless you are fighting pure hellcat/alpha fleets easily take quite a beating with logistical support. But if you have 2 plates on your fitting - drop one for an RAH. It eases up on your powergrid, usually sacrifices a bit of EHP, but gaining a lot better RR efficiency.
But yeah, they seem to be most useful for battleships and capitals. But that's alright, every module has usage for different things.
Shields got an insane small-scale/solo tank buff with the ASB - which is totally insane. :-) |
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