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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.04 11:40:00 -
[31]
Didn't they say ABs will be like 200%?
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.12.04 11:40:00 -
[32]
Didn't they say ABs will be like 200%?
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Tobiron
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Posted - 2004.12.04 12:12:00 -
[33]
I'm quite new to OSABs so bare with me if this sounds stupid. If you change the performance of a 10mn AB won't this make it suck when fitted to a Cruiser? You might argue it already sucks enough in this setup... It already takes some learning to use this set up what's the problem. Like you guys say, flexibility is what makes Eve great. tht |
Tobiron
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Posted - 2004.12.04 12:12:00 -
[34]
I'm quite new to OSABs so bare with me if this sounds stupid. If you change the performance of a 10mn AB won't this make it suck when fitted to a Cruiser? You might argue it already sucks enough in this setup... It already takes some learning to use this set up what's the problem. Like you guys say, flexibility is what makes Eve great. tht |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.12.04 12:55:00 -
[35]
"oversized" AB's are allready slower than the "right" MWD.
I'd say leave em absolutely identical when used "oversized"
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.12.04 12:55:00 -
[36]
"oversized" AB's are allready slower than the "right" MWD.
I'd say leave em absolutely identical when used "oversized"
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.04 17:23:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Maya Rkell "oversized" AB's are allready slower than the "right" MWD.
I'd say leave em absolutely identical when used "oversized"
yeah, just my opinion. oversized AB already is slower than correct size MWD and it takes up way more powergrid ... so it seem ok as it is.
And a 100% bonus (factor 2) on an regular AB might be useless aswell. if I go 160m/s or 320m/s makes no real difference, combat wise. Helps in travelling a bit, but collecting cans would still remains a pain in your rectum. ABs should provide at last something like a 150% - 200% bonus (factor 2.5 or 3), to be a true alternative for setups needing a fast ship.
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.04 17:23:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Maya Rkell "oversized" AB's are allready slower than the "right" MWD.
I'd say leave em absolutely identical when used "oversized"
yeah, just my opinion. oversized AB already is slower than correct size MWD and it takes up way more powergrid ... so it seem ok as it is.
And a 100% bonus (factor 2) on an regular AB might be useless aswell. if I go 160m/s or 320m/s makes no real difference, combat wise. Helps in travelling a bit, but collecting cans would still remains a pain in your rectum. ABs should provide at last something like a 150% - 200% bonus (factor 2.5 or 3), to be a true alternative for setups needing a fast ship.
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marioman
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Posted - 2004.12.04 17:50:00 -
[39]
unless they nerf the speed for an oversized fitting with the speed upped on the ABs then an oversized AB should give more speed (roughly i think havent pulled out the calculator goin on 0 hours of sleep...lol will calc it later)
but not taking into account the weight of the ships (lets just say a 10m kg cruiser for the sake of it) and if the ABs do go up to say 150% increase (not includuding skills) then a 100mn AB on said 10m kg cruiser would give a 1500% speed increase (you already have a base of 350% with oversized AB w/o weight and skills calculated into it, so its a 10x increase, 150% * 10 is 1500) anyway so using a 100mn AB would be like using 3 10mn MWDs lol
so yeah they will definately have to nerf the speed increase when modules go into "oversized" mode
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marioman
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Posted - 2004.12.04 17:50:00 -
[40]
unless they nerf the speed for an oversized fitting with the speed upped on the ABs then an oversized AB should give more speed (roughly i think havent pulled out the calculator goin on 0 hours of sleep...lol will calc it later)
but not taking into account the weight of the ships (lets just say a 10m kg cruiser for the sake of it) and if the ABs do go up to say 150% increase (not includuding skills) then a 100mn AB on said 10m kg cruiser would give a 1500% speed increase (you already have a base of 350% with oversized AB w/o weight and skills calculated into it, so its a 10x increase, 150% * 10 is 1500) anyway so using a 100mn AB would be like using 3 10mn MWDs lol
so yeah they will definately have to nerf the speed increase when modules go into "oversized" mode
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.04 17:54:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Def Antares on 04/12/2004 17:58:02
Originally by: marioman unless they nerf the speed for an oversized fitting with the speed upped on the ABs then an oversized AB should give more speed (roughly i think havent pulled out the calculator goin on 0 hours of sleep...lol will calc it later)
but not taking into account the weight of the ships (lets just say a 10m kg cruiser for the sake of it) and if the ABs do go up to say 150% increase (not includuding skills) then a 100mn AB on said 10m kg cruiser would give a 1500% speed increase (you already have a base of 350% with oversized AB w/o weight and skills calculated into it, so its a 10x increase, 150% * 10 is 1500) anyway so using a 100mn AB would be like using 3 10mn MWDs lol
so yeah they will definately have to nerf the speed increase when modules go into "oversized" mode
of course they would have to reduce the increase of oversized ABs then. as game designer you can easily find an excuse for that, like some drasitc increas of mass, when fitting an oversized AB or something. but all in all the speed increas should remain like it is now, for oversized ABs, and correct sized ABs need a better speed bonus. I thought that was clear.
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.04 17:54:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Def Antares on 04/12/2004 17:58:02
Originally by: marioman unless they nerf the speed for an oversized fitting with the speed upped on the ABs then an oversized AB should give more speed (roughly i think havent pulled out the calculator goin on 0 hours of sleep...lol will calc it later)
but not taking into account the weight of the ships (lets just say a 10m kg cruiser for the sake of it) and if the ABs do go up to say 150% increase (not includuding skills) then a 100mn AB on said 10m kg cruiser would give a 1500% speed increase (you already have a base of 350% with oversized AB w/o weight and skills calculated into it, so its a 10x increase, 150% * 10 is 1500) anyway so using a 100mn AB would be like using 3 10mn MWDs lol
so yeah they will definately have to nerf the speed increase when modules go into "oversized" mode
of course they would have to reduce the increase of oversized ABs then. as game designer you can easily find an excuse for that, like some drasitc increas of mass, when fitting an oversized AB or something. but all in all the speed increas should remain like it is now, for oversized ABs, and correct sized ABs need a better speed bonus. I thought that was clear.
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marioman
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Posted - 2004.12.04 18:03:00 -
[43]
Edited by: marioman on 04/12/2004 18:08:04 ah yes but the problem with that comes from the fact the game doesnt know a normal sized AB from a oversized one, it just knows "hey you got grid/cpu it works" which is how the game is coded so it might require some extensive stuff to make the game see a 100mn AB on a cruiser as oversized, afterall it was the reason behind increasing the power (i believe anyway just what i was told) usage for like BS modules so cruisers couldnt fit them, the only thing that really regulates what fits on what is the grid/cpu req's (notice that instead of making strip miner I's a "mining barge" class miner they just made it use an insane amount of CPU and gave the barges a reduction, same with the covert ops cloak/ships) What i mean is the game doesnt really have internally set hardcoded ship classes....its all regulated by what the module requires resource wise instead.
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marioman
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Posted - 2004.12.04 18:03:00 -
[44]
Edited by: marioman on 04/12/2004 18:08:04 ah yes but the problem with that comes from the fact the game doesnt know a normal sized AB from a oversized one, it just knows "hey you got grid/cpu it works" which is how the game is coded so it might require some extensive stuff to make the game see a 100mn AB on a cruiser as oversized, afterall it was the reason behind increasing the power (i believe anyway just what i was told) usage for like BS modules so cruisers couldnt fit them, the only thing that really regulates what fits on what is the grid/cpu req's (notice that instead of making strip miner I's a "mining barge" class miner they just made it use an insane amount of CPU and gave the barges a reduction, same with the covert ops cloak/ships) What i mean is the game doesnt really have internally set hardcoded ship classes....its all regulated by what the module requires resource wise instead.
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.12.04 18:07:00 -
[45]
Majority?
LOL.
Give me a break, 5500km/s Mallers or HACs are balanced? Taking on everything from a pod to a BS? -- Stories: #1 --
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.12.04 18:07:00 -
[46]
Majority?
LOL.
Give me a break, 5500km/s Mallers or HACs are balanced? Taking on everything from a pod to a BS? -- Stories: #1 --
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.04 18:19:00 -
[47]
Originally by: marioman Edited by: marioman on 04/12/2004 18:08:04 ah yes but the problem with that comes from the fact the game doesnt know a normal sized AB from a oversized one, it just knows "hey you got grid/cpu it works" which is how the game is coded so it might require some extensive stuff to make the game see a 100mn AB on a cruiser as oversized, afterall it was the reason behind increasing the power (i believe anyway just what i was told) usage for like BS modules so cruisers couldnt fit them, the only thing that really regulates what fits on what is the grid/cpu req's (notice that instead of making strip miner I's a "mining barge" class miner they just made it use an insane amount of CPU and gave the barges a reduction, same with the covert ops cloak/ships) What i mean is the game doesnt really have internally set hardcoded ship classes....its all regulated by what the module requires resource wise instead.
tbh I dont mind really how they gonna solve it, and this it's also not matter of this discussion. Maybe, though it will work somehow like this: modules also have a certain mass (listed in it's properties). A possibility I could think of, would be to increase the mass of the ABs to a certain amount, and this mass will add to the ship's total mass. A BS with a BS AB wouldn't be affected by the mass increase too much, because it's own mass already is very big, or the AB would grant sufficient boost to compensate. Regular speed is not afflicted by mass at all. The mass increase of a BS sized AB on a cruiser would be big enough to make the new speed boost factor balanced to an amount similar to what it's now ... But really, that's not what the thread is about, and should be left to the devs, and sice they already stated that there will be changes to the ABs (and to propulsion mods in general) I don't doubt they already work on a solution.
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.04 18:19:00 -
[48]
Originally by: marioman Edited by: marioman on 04/12/2004 18:08:04 ah yes but the problem with that comes from the fact the game doesnt know a normal sized AB from a oversized one, it just knows "hey you got grid/cpu it works" which is how the game is coded so it might require some extensive stuff to make the game see a 100mn AB on a cruiser as oversized, afterall it was the reason behind increasing the power (i believe anyway just what i was told) usage for like BS modules so cruisers couldnt fit them, the only thing that really regulates what fits on what is the grid/cpu req's (notice that instead of making strip miner I's a "mining barge" class miner they just made it use an insane amount of CPU and gave the barges a reduction, same with the covert ops cloak/ships) What i mean is the game doesnt really have internally set hardcoded ship classes....its all regulated by what the module requires resource wise instead.
tbh I dont mind really how they gonna solve it, and this it's also not matter of this discussion. Maybe, though it will work somehow like this: modules also have a certain mass (listed in it's properties). A possibility I could think of, would be to increase the mass of the ABs to a certain amount, and this mass will add to the ship's total mass. A BS with a BS AB wouldn't be affected by the mass increase too much, because it's own mass already is very big, or the AB would grant sufficient boost to compensate. Regular speed is not afflicted by mass at all. The mass increase of a BS sized AB on a cruiser would be big enough to make the new speed boost factor balanced to an amount similar to what it's now ... But really, that's not what the thread is about, and should be left to the devs, and sice they already stated that there will be changes to the ABs (and to propulsion mods in general) I don't doubt they already work on a solution.
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.04 18:20:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Sally Majority?
LOL.
Give me a break, 5500km/s Mallers or HACs are balanced? Taking on everything from a pod to a BS?
you wanna start the discussion again? ok :) fit a webber, fit a NOS, bring a comrade in a 5500m/s (did you really mean km/s??) maller...
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Def Antares
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Posted - 2004.12.04 18:20:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Sally Majority?
LOL.
Give me a break, 5500km/s Mallers or HACs are balanced? Taking on everything from a pod to a BS?
you wanna start the discussion again? ok :) fit a webber, fit a NOS, bring a comrade in a 5500m/s (did you really mean km/s??) maller...
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:37:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Grim Vandal on 06/12/2004 01:40:36
Originally by: Noriath Didn't they say ABs will be like 200%?
well we dont know anything yet...
oveurs top speed was about 400 m/s in a megathron...
lets not forget the skill bonus... and lets not forget that we dont know if it was a named or even tech 2 100mn AB...
but it will definately not be 200% speed bonus from the modules itself... which is IMO not enough IF mwd doesnt get nerfed...
the base speed boost of the 100mn AB TECH I should be +200%
this would mean that oveurs mega would have a top speed of about 537 m/s ... which he obviously didnt have (assuming lv 5 navigation and lv 5 acceleration control)
again he maybe wasnt moving at top speed so it could be more than 400 m/s... but than again this could have been already a tech 2 module aso...
so the conculsion... there is no way to tell how much boost the AB will give but as it stands now it is somewhere between +100% - +150%...
which is HONESTLY tooo low... ESPECIALLY FOR CRUISERS...
BUT then again a cruiser sized AB could have more speed boost bonus compared to a BS sized AB... who knows...
as it stands now it seems OK for a BS but +100% - +150% for a cruiser is TOOO LOW!!!!
the problem with cruisers is the FACT that most of them are DAMN HEAVY...
MOST cruisers have over 12 000 000 kg and up to 14 000 000 kg...
which means that a cruiser with 13 000 000 gets
- 30 % top speed for using an AB or mwd...
just an example: moa 13 000 000 kg
which would mean IF a 10m AB would give +100% (assuming lv 5 skills) top speed of the moa = 392 m/s
which is HONESTLY TOO LOW!
lets take +200% (lv skills)
top speed of the moa: 585 m/s top speed of the mega: 537 m/s
so with a SAME speed boost for 10 mn, and 100mn BS would be nearly as fast as cruisers... and this is definately not balanced...
suggestion: + 300% YES +300% AB boost for 10mn AB with ALL lv 5 skills!!!!!
which would give moa: 777 m/s top speed stabber: 1344 m/s top speed
this is a viable speed for cruisers at which they SHOULD be able to fit a decent defence and medium turrets... if they want to be faster they can choose to fit an oversized AB or mwd...
btw for those guys who scream about the oversized AB nerf...
AFTER ALL the oversized AB is nothing else as a AFTERBURNER... this means that exactly this modules GETS BOOSTED which means that even at +100% speed boost for a 10mn AB that it would be WAY better compared to a mwd besides the fitting requirements... no wonder it gets nerfed... after all it will get a similar boost as it has now... so actually there is NO oversized AB nerf at all...
but lets wait and see what the actual changes will look like... too much speculation involved as it stands now...
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:37:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Grim Vandal on 06/12/2004 01:40:36
Originally by: Noriath Didn't they say ABs will be like 200%?
well we dont know anything yet...
oveurs top speed was about 400 m/s in a megathron...
lets not forget the skill bonus... and lets not forget that we dont know if it was a named or even tech 2 100mn AB...
but it will definately not be 200% speed bonus from the modules itself... which is IMO not enough IF mwd doesnt get nerfed...
the base speed boost of the 100mn AB TECH I should be +200%
this would mean that oveurs mega would have a top speed of about 537 m/s ... which he obviously didnt have (assuming lv 5 navigation and lv 5 acceleration control)
again he maybe wasnt moving at top speed so it could be more than 400 m/s... but than again this could have been already a tech 2 module aso...
so the conculsion... there is no way to tell how much boost the AB will give but as it stands now it is somewhere between +100% - +150%...
which is HONESTLY tooo low... ESPECIALLY FOR CRUISERS...
BUT then again a cruiser sized AB could have more speed boost bonus compared to a BS sized AB... who knows...
as it stands now it seems OK for a BS but +100% - +150% for a cruiser is TOOO LOW!!!!
the problem with cruisers is the FACT that most of them are DAMN HEAVY...
MOST cruisers have over 12 000 000 kg and up to 14 000 000 kg...
which means that a cruiser with 13 000 000 gets
- 30 % top speed for using an AB or mwd...
just an example: moa 13 000 000 kg
which would mean IF a 10m AB would give +100% (assuming lv 5 skills) top speed of the moa = 392 m/s
which is HONESTLY TOO LOW!
lets take +200% (lv skills)
top speed of the moa: 585 m/s top speed of the mega: 537 m/s
so with a SAME speed boost for 10 mn, and 100mn BS would be nearly as fast as cruisers... and this is definately not balanced...
suggestion: + 300% YES +300% AB boost for 10mn AB with ALL lv 5 skills!!!!!
which would give moa: 777 m/s top speed stabber: 1344 m/s top speed
this is a viable speed for cruisers at which they SHOULD be able to fit a decent defence and medium turrets... if they want to be faster they can choose to fit an oversized AB or mwd...
btw for those guys who scream about the oversized AB nerf...
AFTER ALL the oversized AB is nothing else as a AFTERBURNER... this means that exactly this modules GETS BOOSTED which means that even at +100% speed boost for a 10mn AB that it would be WAY better compared to a mwd besides the fitting requirements... no wonder it gets nerfed... after all it will get a similar boost as it has now... so actually there is NO oversized AB nerf at all...
but lets wait and see what the actual changes will look like... too much speculation involved as it stands now...
Greetings Grim |
Arud
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:47:00 -
[53]
just put oversized ab's in the same catagory as mwd's, only one allowed, and no mwd+oversizedAB
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:47:00 -
[54]
just put oversized ab's in the same catagory as mwd's, only one allowed, and no mwd+oversizedAB
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:48:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Arud just put oversized ab's in the same catagory as mwd's, only one allowed, and no mwd+oversizedAB
this IS the case!
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:48:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Arud just put oversized ab's in the same catagory as mwd's, only one allowed, and no mwd+oversizedAB
this IS the case!
Greetings Grim |
Arud
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Grim Vandal
Originally by: Arud just put oversized ab's in the same catagory as mwd's, only one allowed, and no mwd+oversizedAB
this IS the case!
yesss, victory
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:52:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Grim Vandal
Originally by: Arud just put oversized ab's in the same catagory as mwd's, only one allowed, and no mwd+oversizedAB
this IS the case!
yesss, victory
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:56:00 -
[59]
the point is:
IF the ABs stay at about +100% - +150% boost and only one is allowed (this of course includes an oversized AB since an oversized AB is afterall a "normal" AB which many seem to forget here) ... and if the mwd gets no more shield penalty...
than MY OPINION is that the mwd or oversized AB will STILL be the desired modules for 90% of the playerbase which in the end changes nothing ...
the reason why I want these changes, are cuz I hate to see the mwd used in 90% of the ship setups...
and as it stands now it rather benefits the mwd user instead of slightly nerfing him...
+100% AB boost WOULD be O.K. IF mwds would be changed to -500% agility instead of -500% sig penalty... BUT as it stands now... the AB boost needs to be +200% and even +300% for cruisers to become a viable option!!!!
otherwise the mwd WHORING will find no end...
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.12.06 01:56:00 -
[60]
the point is:
IF the ABs stay at about +100% - +150% boost and only one is allowed (this of course includes an oversized AB since an oversized AB is afterall a "normal" AB which many seem to forget here) ... and if the mwd gets no more shield penalty...
than MY OPINION is that the mwd or oversized AB will STILL be the desired modules for 90% of the playerbase which in the end changes nothing ...
the reason why I want these changes, are cuz I hate to see the mwd used in 90% of the ship setups...
and as it stands now it rather benefits the mwd user instead of slightly nerfing him...
+100% AB boost WOULD be O.K. IF mwds would be changed to -500% agility instead of -500% sig penalty... BUT as it stands now... the AB boost needs to be +200% and even +300% for cruisers to become a viable option!!!!
otherwise the mwd WHORING will find no end...
Greetings Grim |
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