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Jerid Verges
Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
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Posted - 2010.04.28 17:45:00 -
[1]
Currently FOF missiles are regarded as crap due to the following reasons.
-Less damage then guided missiles, only useful when jammed. -Tend to hit anything but hostiles (IE Corpmates or wrecks)
I am proposing the following change.
-Target Progression.
FOF missiles should ALWAYS target ships that are EWARing you first. FOF missiles should ALWAYS target ships that have aggressed you second. FOF missiles should target drones that are aggressing you third. FOF missiles should ALWAYS target any wartargets in range fourth. FOF missiles should ALWAYS target any ship with a negative standing to you fifth. FOF missiles may then shoot at any neutral ship.
FOF missiles should NEVER shoot at a fleetmate, corpmate, or anyone with positive standings with you (Unless they have agressed you)
FOF missiles should be just that, Friend or Foe, if they shoot at friends or even not shoot at enemies then they are completely wasteful.
I am not a missile user though, and if anyone else can make a suggestion they think will make FOFs more balanced go ahead.
If anyone thinks they have a more logical target progression I'm open to pointers.
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Firartix
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Posted - 2010.04.28 18:23:00 -
[2]
I'm a missile user, but i don't use FOFs... because a lot of people told me it was crap.
I think your progressive targeting is a good idea overall, but FOFs would turn to be a bit too strong that way. My point: targeting EWaring ships is kindda too strong, and the standings shouldn't get invoked in FOFs. What if you were to be attacked by a corp"mate" or someone with positive standings? I haven't played much in lowsec yet, but from the little i did, our corp got betrayed 2 times IIRC. Moreover, i even saw someone who got killed 11v1 by his own corp in outlaw space.
I would rather suggest that kind of target progression: - Enemies within range+10% - Agressing targets within range+10% - Agressed targets within range+10% - People with negative standings within range+10% (or maybe not?) - Any ship within range
And then it's up to you not to fire FOFs when you have no viable target. And to watch for ranges.
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Jerid Verges
Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
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Posted - 2010.04.28 21:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jerid Verges on 28/04/2010 21:44:55
Originally by: Firartix What if you were to be attacked by a corp"mate" or someone with positive standings?
Well according to my progression chart he would be aggressing you, therefor FOFs would target him regardless.
I see where targeting EWAR ships first might be a little overpowered, since Missile ships would be able to just hit ships jamming them even though they are jammed. Tbh your progression chart seems better.
Also, FOFs should pick a target and stay with it until it is dead?
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.28 21:51:00 -
[4]
imho the hitting closest ships has to stay.thats the trade off you get for being able to fire under ECM.
imho the only thing that has to be solved is "RR counts as aggression".
FOFs happily attack people repping you. if that bug is solved they would work as they should.
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Jerid Verges
Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
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Posted - 2010.04.28 23:23:00 -
[5]
Originally by: darius mclever
FOFs happily attack people repping you. if that bug is solved they would work as they should.
There is also the problem that FOFs are attacking useless things like wrecks, cargo containers, and large collideble structures. Along with friends.
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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.04.28 23:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: darius mclever imho the hitting closest ships has to stay.thats the trade off you get for being able to fire under ECM.
imho the only thing that has to be solved is "RR counts as aggression".
FOFs happily attack people repping you. if that bug is solved they would work as they should.
currenty the fact that missiles are not instant damage has hit them harder than any other weapons, when was the last time you saw a raven or drake at a large fleet battle.
im all for giveing fof missile a bit of direction when it comes to who they shoot , as currently there one and only use is when you are ratting and some one in a ecm ship jumps you
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.28 23:41:00 -
[7]
Originally by: mchief117
Originally by: darius mclever imho the hitting closest ships has to stay.thats the trade off you get for being able to fire under ECM.
imho the only thing that has to be solved is "RR counts as aggression".
FOFs happily attack people repping you. if that bug is solved they would work as they should.
currenty the fact that missiles are not instant damage has hit them harder than any other weapons, when was the last time you saw a raven or drake at a large fleet battle.
im all for giveing fof missile a bit of direction when it comes to who they shoot , as currently there one and only use is when you are ratting and some one in a ecm ship jumps you
I see ravens and drakes in every single fleet battle.
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SDragoon
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Posted - 2010.04.29 03:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
There is also the problem that FOFs are attacking useless things like wrecks, cargo containers, and large collideble structures. Along with friends.
Last time I used FOFs they would only target the nearest thing that was shooting/using modules on you. How the heck do they end up targeting things that can't even lock you? Did things change since I used them?
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Jerid Verges
Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
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Posted - 2010.04.29 03:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: SDragoon
Originally by: Jerid Verges
There is also the problem that FOFs are attacking useless things like wrecks, cargo containers, and large collideble structures. Along with friends.
Last time I used FOFs they would only target the nearest thing that was shooting/using modules on you. How the heck do they end up targeting things that can't even lock you? Did things change since I used them?
I don't know. Missile users have commented that their FOFs would shoot anything that wasn't invulnerable (IE invulnerable structures) this was most common from PvE FOF users who said their missiles shot Large Collidable Objects often.
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Captain Muscles
Caldari Clan Farthammer
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Posted - 2010.04.29 04:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
Originally by: SDragoon
Originally by: Jerid Verges
There is also the problem that FOFs are attacking useless things like wrecks, cargo containers, and large collideble structures. Along with friends.
Last time I used FOFs they would only target the nearest thing that was shooting/using modules on you. How the heck do they end up targeting things that can't even lock you? Did things change since I used them?
I don't know. Missile users have commented that their FOFs would shoot anything that wasn't invulnerable (IE invulnerable structures) this was most common from PvE FOF users who said their missiles shot Large Collidable Objects often.
Last time I ran a mission and used FOF (before Dominion) this was the case. They will not start firing until you have aggression, but once they start, they will hit any enemy ship and any inanimate object that is vulnerable and won't get you CONCORDokkened. ____________________ Captain Muscles sez:
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Erich Herrmann
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Posted - 2010.04.29 09:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jerid Verges I don't know. Missile users have commented that their FOFs would shoot anything that wasn't invulnerable (IE invulnerable structures) this was most common from PvE FOF users who said their missiles shot Large Collidable Objects often.
Please don't tell me that you've made an FOF Missile proposal without actually trying / using / testing them out in various scenarios to find out how exactly they work ...
And all that stuff about them shooting EWAR first, aggressed ships second, etc., etc., etc. ... if they're going to do all the work for you, why normal missiles? And what do turret users have to match it? One image per signature please. Zymurgist |
SemiCharmed
Clans of the Sanctums
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Posted - 2010.04.29 10:03:00 -
[12]
FOF - Friend or Foe.
Don't want them to shoot your corp mates? - then make sure they don't lock, rep, assign drones or just no where near you.
What you want is a missile with an "I Win" button - sorry not in eve :) --------------------------------------------
Remember Kids, Only YOU Can Prevent Fourm fires. |
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
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Posted - 2010.06.10 23:42:00 -
[13]
Most annoying part for me is that fof missiles even target structures that are in now way any harm, hostile or anything, e.g. walls (yes tiny little walls) in missions, and completely ignore enemies that fire at you. I mean, its just crap, if there are 100 structures scattered around and your fof missiles try to take those down first, if you are not like hanging on an enemies ships tail.
So Id like to petition for some sort of programmable fof missiles, where you can set preferences what stuff to attack first by pushing the more important targets up in a ladder.
Would also make sense to let your fof missiles know what actually is a friend and what a foe by a tiny datachip before you launch them.
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Helen Hunts
Gallente Red Dragon Mining inc Red Dragon Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.11 07:40:00 -
[14]
Given enough time and ammo, FoF missiles will clear a mission/battlefield of anything not indestructable. (I haven't seen them go after wrecks or cans yet) Sadly, the closest non-CONCORD-summoning target is generally gone after first, regardless of damage potential. Eventually, the harmless, but legal to shoot structures will be so much scattered dust, and actively hostile targets will be engaged. A shame you didn't pack enough tank to hold out for that long...
If anything, I'd make the modification that put HARMLESS structures at the bottom of the shooting order, regardless of range. Making FoF's do all our ewar-killing for us.... nah.
_______________________________
Mine da rocks, make more ships. Pop da rats, make more rigs. Sell da gear, make more money.
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GyokZoli
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.11 11:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jerid Verges
-Less damage then guided missiles, only useful when jammed.
F.o.f. missiles do only 6,7% less damage than the normal ones if you train f.o.f. missiles skill to level 5. So you may have only one reason to request any changes.
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2010.06.11 14:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: SemiCharmed FOF - Friend or Foe.
Don't want them to shoot your corp mates? - then make sure they don't lock, rep, assign drones or just no where near you.
What you want is a missile with an "I Win" button - sorry not in eve :)
LOL.... You really have no idea do you. You think the military uses weapons that will shoot their own people/equipment? Think about it! FoF, or fire and forget missiles, or "smart" missiles use IFF to figure out who is friendly and who isn't. A FoF missile should never, ever, ever shoot a friendly unless they are not broadcasting or are broadcasting the wrong IFF code.
FoF missiles don't require guidance from the platform they are fired. Thats the point behind them, they aquire the target themselves and home in on it. I haven't used FoF missiles in game as I am too afraid of what they might do. I might have a play around with them in a mission to see how they behave but they are, from what I've heard, broken in their current form.
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Ardetia
The Flying Tigers United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.11 18:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: SemiCharmed FOF - Friend or Foe.
Don't want them to shoot your corp mates? - then make sure they don't lock, rep, assign drones or just no where near you.
What you want is a missile with an "I Win" button - sorry not in eve :)
idiot. i think all of us want them to be useful, in stark contrast of what they are now 0/10 troll
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
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Posted - 2010.06.13 05:12:00 -
[18]
Well they are not unuseful, just really really dumb and annoying.
And thats the problem, they could be nice and used for pro tactics, if they would behave reasonable and not make the user smash his computer and scream WTF over and over again. In my opinion it would be an easy thing to patch them to be a good game enhancer.
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.06.13 05:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jerid Verges I am proposing the following change.
-Target Progression.
Here is the problem with that. For every missile fired the game must search thru a 75km+ radius SPHERE for a ship e-warring you. Didn't find any? Ok then run a search thru that sphere again for an aggressing ship. None? Ok then we search again for the next type... So on and so forth. Unfortunately, that's the way targeting works (in most systems). Intelligent FoF targeting is a great idea (I would really love it!), but it would impose crippling lag.
Now imagine a ALOT of drakes sitting on the gate just spewing FoFs before the enemy has even jumped thru. Imagine the face reaping lag the enemy would be faced with on entering the system. 'Course nobody would do that. Just wouldn't be sporting or fair play...
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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