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Musical Fist
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.04 15:27:00 -
[1]
This wont stop macro laming but it will make macros useless to the point where people wont need them, theres three types of macros, the ratter (90% of 0.0), the hauler and the miner (90% of empire).
Macro makers find ways to make macros easily and will creatively continue, so we have to look at what people use macros for.
I am not sure why people macro haul, probably for trade goods or something anyway macro mining / ratting is done purely for ISK so I say we do the following.
Buff mining make asteroids contain more than mission junk, so much more that you would be able to make equal amounts of ISK from mining than missions
We should then increase the amount of minerals required to make stuff for the obvious reasons like about 50% or something.
So where do macros and ratter come in?
Have it so each IP is only allowed to mine / rat soo much a day, they can go over that quota but once they do they will go into a 'siege' (farming siege) where they ship wont move until DT
In addition to this, they should get announced to all people in that region by both channel notifications and mail, they will also have aggression, since shooting rocks is classed as hostility to asteroids.
This means miners / ratters can be attacked if they mine / kill too much and wont be able to move / warp / log off.
When the ship dies or DT happens they can mine / rat again because of this freedom I think a quota limit of 2 hours is fine. This is so not my main
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Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.05.04 15:38:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Musical Fist Have it so each IP is only allowed to mine / rat soo much a day, they can go over that quota but once they do they will go into a 'siege' (farming siege) where they ship wont move until DT
Are you serious about this one? Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.04 15:39:00 -
[3]
0/10
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Musical Fist
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.04 16:16:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Gunnanmon
Originally by: Musical Fist Have it so each IP is only allowed to mine / rat soo much a day, they can go over that quota but once they do they will go into a 'siege' (farming siege) where they ship wont move until DT
Are you serious about this one?
yes, what purpose would a person use a macro, using one for 2 hours is pretty pointless, this will make macros inefficient This is so not my main
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.04 16:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Musical Fist yes, what purpose would a person use a macro, using one for 2 hours is pretty pointless, this will make macros inefficient
So my CEO tells me "fix your sec status problem", ATM i could do power ratting for 3-4h a day and get my sec status fixed in a few days (depending how bad i had been before *whistles*).
with your plan the required time would double/triple easily. also what about people enjoying mostly PVE in the game. 2h/day and then we tell them "come back tomorrow"? how about normal miners who dont use macros? 2h/day and then we tell them "come back tomorrow"?
How idiotic is that?
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Musical Fist
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.04 16:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Musical Fist yes, what purpose would a person use a macro, using one for 2 hours is pretty pointless, this will make macros inefficient
So my CEO tells me "fix your sec status problem", ATM i could do power ratting for 3-4h a day and get my sec status fixed in a few days (depending how bad i had been before *whistles*).
with your plan the required time would double/triple easily. also what about people enjoying mostly PVE in the game. 2h/day and then we tell them "come back tomorrow"? how about normal miners who dont use macros? 2h/day and then we tell them "come back tomorrow"?
How idiotic is that?
People enjoy mining :O I was being generous @ 2 hours, but its fine, you can still mine for longer, if you are mining in a fleet and you go over your quota you will experience industrial pvp, perfect to merge PvP and PvE together. Mining will be buffed ofc so 1 hour of mining will be the equivalent of 10 hours now, macros will just be useless, no one will pay for a macro to do what they can do quicker in an hour.
As for ratting, with the warping from hostiles etc, 2 hours would be plenty of time, the problem is people are leaving macros on for a long time because they are useful afk tools, imagine getting a program that does two hours worth of work a day only, some people would still use them but the numbers will be soo low.
The IP filter will limit ISK seller companies from selling, sure they will be able to use proxies but is that really worth the effort for 2 hours a day This would increase the price of Zydrine too making lowsec mining better
This is so not my main
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Half Cocked
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Posted - 2010.05.04 17:02:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Half ****ed on 04/05/2010 17:04:09 0/10
I rat and mine and I do both for more than 2 hours a day when I do it. Lets just take the mining side.
I use 2 accts so that means the most optimal for me is the setup I use. Hulk/Orca as most will agree will mine more than Hulk/Hulk. It takes even with Tech 2 Crystals and Drones mining with a Max boost almost to over a hour depending on belt density to fill a Orca. With your proposal I am only allowed to mine 2 maybe 3 Orcas of ore a day. When if I am on a project to build a lot of things I can easily on the weekends spend 10~12 hours a day mining. Mining already has a hard time keeping up with Some L4 and most L5 missions on the ISK per hour ratio. What your talking about would mean I can mine 2 hours a day per character meaning I would have to train my Miner to fly the Orca and my Orca pilot to fly a Hulk to max ability so I can now mine for 4 hours a day and then I would have do something else the rest of the time I want to play that day.
While I agree something needs to be done about macro miners etc.. I am not going to grace the rest of your post with a response because I agree with many of the people opposing you already. And as for doubling the mineral cost of ships and mods..... Let me know when you want to pay for a 120 Million ISK drake or a 2.1 Billion ISK freighter, just triple or more the cost of everything on the market at the Tech 1 level and double the cost of Tech 2. That is what you will see happen.
Edit for spelling and grammar.
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Musical Fist
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.04 17:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Half ****ed Edited by: Half ****ed on 04/05/2010 17:04:09 0/10
I rat and mine and I do both for more than 2 hours a day when I do it. Lets just take the mining side.
I use 2 accts so that means the most optimal for me is the setup I use. Hulk/Orca as most will agree will mine more than Hulk/Hulk. It takes even with Tech 2 Crystals and Drones mining with a Max boost almost to over a hour depending on belt density to fill a Orca. With your proposal I am only allowed to mine 2 maybe 3 Orcas of ore a day. When if I am on a project to build a lot of things I can easily on the weekends spend 10~12 hours a day mining. Mining already has a hard time keeping up with Some L4 and most L5 missions on the ISK per hour ratio. What your talking about would mean I can mine 2 hours a day per character meaning I would have to train my Miner to fly the Orca and my Orca pilot to fly a Hulk to max ability so I can now mine for 4 hours a day and then I would have do something else the rest of the time I want to play that day.
While I agree something needs to be done about macro miners etc.. I am not going to grace the rest of your post with a response because I agree with many of the people opposing you already. And as for doubling the mineral cost of ships and mods..... Let me know when you want to pay for a 120 Million ISK drake or a 2.1 Billion ISK freighter, just triple or more the cost of everything on the market at the Tech 1 level and double the cost of Tech 2. That is what you will see happen.
Edit for spelling and grammar.
So really what you are saying is we should try it out and if it doesnt work revert back to the old method, sounds good to me tbh. This is so not my main
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Krits
Caldari Viscosity Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2010.05.04 17:23:00 -
[9]
Wow, I've rarely seen such poorly thought out ideas posted in the assembly forum. This is epic fail in so many ways, my lunch break couldn't possibly leave me enough time to write it all out.
I'll just leave it at epic fail, leaving it to the masses to inform you why.
Back to work.
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.05.04 17:26:00 -
[10]
Not supported, if I want to travel/mission with one account and mine with the other, I do not wish to be have to stop that.
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Musical Fist
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.04 17:31:00 -
[11]
Judging by the comments I think people will be happier if the limit was increased to 4 hours instead I will edit my original post to reflect this.
I also thought rats should spawn more and give less of a loot / bounty, this would make ratting open to everyone so alliances wont have to restrict space to corps only This is so not my main
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Half Cocked
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Posted - 2010.05.04 17:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Musical Fist Judging by the comments I think people will be happier if the limit was increased to 4 hours instead I will edit my original post to reflect this.
I also thought rats should spawn more and give less of a loot / bounty, this would make ratting open to everyone so alliances wont have to restrict space to corps only
How is just drop this idea and think of a different way to try and stop macros. You start putting limits on what people can do for a given time and they will go find a different game that does not care if they sit around for hours in one location doing the same thing over and over when their RL is too busy for them to be involved in more active parts of the game.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.05.04 18:00:00 -
[13]
There were days when I was still working on my Master's Degree that I would mine while writing papers, sometimes 8 - 10 hours a day on the weekend. So basically what you're telling me is that my subscription money doesn't entitle me to the same playing time as yours unless I am engaged in activities you agree are of limited interest to macro users.
How about you stop drinking those dumbass shakes in the mornings? That might help. --Vel
Originally by: Jiseinoku
Mining is the path to enlightement.
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Lykouleon
Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.04 19:41:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Musical Fist Judging by the comments I think people will be happier if I ended my subscription and went back to WoW, never to return.
FYP
Quote: CCP Mindstar > Sorry - I've completely messed all that up. lets try again
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Taxesarebad
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Posted - 2010.05.04 20:17:00 -
[15]
If anything this is a reason to Not vote for Cat.
-------------SIGZONE-------------- Remove Shadow.... ;) |
Musical Fist
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.04 20:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Taxesarebad If anything this is a reason to Not vote for Cat.
NOOOOOOOOOOO, LEAVE CAT ALONE!!
This suggestion is the answer to all macro problems, only one way to find out tbh This is so not my main
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.04 20:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Musical Fist This suggestion is the answer to why you should pod me all day long tbh
hth
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Imigo Montoya
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Posted - 2010.05.05 01:48:00 -
[18]
First of all let me start by saying that as an independent game developer and game design academic I am vehemently opposed to macro use of any kind.
That said, this idea is so terrible that words simply cannot describe just how terrible it is. It's so horrid and poorly thought out that I am wondering whether it is in fact a troll post.
On the assumption that it's not, I'm going to pose a scenario. Due to RL concerns a player can only play (other than updating the skill queue or market orders) once or twice a week for any length of time. On the odd occasion they can play for 7-8 hours at a stretch they would like to do what they enjoy doing, either ratting, mining, or PvP. After all, they are paying for their account.
If their funds are a bit short for PvP they will need to spend a bit of time filling their wallet, and of course being the conscientious player they don't cheat by having a macro do this for them. So they think, "right, I'm going to spend my playing time ratting the belts trying to get faction spawns".
In your solution, after 2 (or however many) hours, their ship stops and won't move until downtime. So what play time this player has available is now screwed.
Your solution penalises legitimate players more than macro users, particularly those who aren't aware of how the internet works. All a savvy macro user needs to do is ensure that their macro includes controls so that 5 minutes before the quota time is up it will reset the ADSL router or whatever is being used for a connection, and tiens viola, new IP and more macro ratting/mining.
tl;dr I think the post of "epic fail" summed up just nicely.
Absolutely will NOT support.
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Derelicht
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Posted - 2010.05.05 12:18:00 -
[19]
Is there a thumbs-down option?
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Lyn Kishin
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Posted - 2010.05.05 13:21:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Lyn Kishin on 05/05/2010 13:22:17
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
On the assumption that it's not, I'm going to pose a scenario. Due to RL concerns a player can only play (other than updating the skill queue or market orders) once or twice a week for any length of time. On the odd occasion they can play for 7-8 hours at a stretch they would like to do what they enjoy doing, either ratting, mining, or PvP. After all, they are paying for their account.
If their funds are a bit short for PvP they will need to spend a bit of time filling their wallet, and of course being the conscientious player they don't cheat by having a macro do this for them. So they think, "right, I'm going to spend my playing time ratting the belts trying to get faction spawns".
In your solution, after 2 (or however many) hours, their ship stops and won't move until downtime. So what play time this player has available is now screwed.
Your solution penalises legitimate players more than macro users, particularly those who aren't aware of how the internet works. All a savvy macro user needs to do is ensure that their macro includes controls so that 5 minutes before the quota time is up it will reset the ADSL router or whatever is being used for a connection, and tiens viola, new IP and more macro ratting/mining.
Absolutely will NOT support.
Playing Devils advocate for a moment;
Instead of a 2 hour or 4 hour or whatever limit per day, make it an allowance, you get 4H per day, that roll over if you don't use them.
"Weekend warriors" will have 20h to make isk over the weekend and otherwise intermittent players will have huge allowances of time to use when they decide to play.
Of course this does nothing about market/trade/hauler ganking/scamming/moon mining ect...
And there's no need to use ip when you can simply do it per account.
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Derelicht
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Posted - 2010.05.05 13:45:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Musical Fist This wont stop macro laming but it will make macros useless to the point where people wont need them, theres three types of macros, the ratter (90% of 0.0), the hauler and the miner (90% of empire).
Macro makers find ways to make macros easily and will creatively continue, so we have to look at what people use macros for.
I am not sure why people macro haul, probably for trade goods or something anyway macro mining / ratting is done purely for ISK so I say we do the following.
Buff mining make asteroids contain more than mission junk, so much more that you would be able to make equal amounts of ISK from mining than missions
We should then increase the amount of minerals required to make stuff for the obvious reasons like about 50% or something.
So where do macros and ratter come in?
Have it so each IP is only allowed to mine / rat soo much a day, they can go over that quota but once they do they will go into a 'siege' (farming siege) where they ship wont move until DT
In addition to this, they should get announced to all people in that region by both channel notifications and mail, they will also have aggression, since shooting rocks is classed as hostility to asteroids.
This means miners / ratters can be attacked if they mine / kill too much and wont be able to move / warp / log off.
When the ship dies or DT happens they can mine / rat again because of this freedom I think a quota limit of 2 hours is fine.
It's interesting how you're the only one supporting your proposal. Time to log in a few of your other accts, I reckon.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.05 15:54:00 -
[22]
Honestly, this would just make macroing worse. This would increase the demand for ore. Macroers are more... adept at cycling through accounts and characters than others. This means they'll just have more characters running, switching between them as their allotment for the day runs out. Very few non-macroers would go through the trouble.
Bad idea.
If you want to get rid of macroers, come up with a more complex system for hauler missions. There are fewer macro miners than you think. Most mine drunk/AFK/while doing something else, which is perfectly legit.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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