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Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
968
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 04:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/07/faction-warfare-resuscitating-amarr.html
It was malaise. I was under the impression that the Amarr were giving up systems (as of yesterday, they had six systems under their control, out of over 65 systems) so that their alts could cash in on the T5 warzone control Minmatar achieved on Sunday.
(tl;dr I propose that Minmatar give up all systems east of Dal, excepting Amamake. Reset faction warfare of our own accord, get back to good fights.)
Not really the case. The Amarr side is simply disinterested, and many are packing up, moving north, where the battle lines are more evenly drawn; where there's something for both sides to fight over.
So, to those crowing that we can do it without Goon help, perhaps we're still lingering under the effects of what they did. If the Amarr are so disinterested that they aren't fighting back, then what sort of victory are we crowing over? Not too mention that the Minmatar have always had a numerical advantage over the Amarr, the Goon exploits only made a crappy situation for the Amarr worse.
(Of course, the Amarr now have Fweddit, an organization that is 600 strong. But then Fweddit aren't really keen on faction warfare mechanics, so they don't bother with things like plexing, offensive or defensive. But then, why would they bother when Amarr are perpetually stuck at T1 warzone control, there's no motivation to do the grindy work. Fweddit won't stick around if the situation continues to deteriorate. Do we want to see them head to the Caldari? Few Minmatar I've talked too aren't happy that Fweddit took up the Amarr cause. They breathed essential life into a battle that had been on the wane.)
The more people the Amarr bleed, the better it is for the Minmatar with respect to LP earned, but CCP isn't going to let that money train last forever, which then damages everybody in faction warfare, because anything CCP changes to rectify the situation isn't only going to affect Minmatar.
Hell, without Amarr, good fights aren't going to happen. And faction warfare is about the good fights at its core. Sitting around, only doing missions for LP, with nobody to fight . . . might as well be highsec carebears.
The way it sits now, the Amarr need systems. They can grab a system here and there, but considering they have so few, it's easy enough for the Minmatar to grab them back, they only have a couple systems to focus on reclaiming.
With the lack in interest developing on the Amarr side, there's no way that the few that are interested in claiming systems, going after warzone control, can make any headway. Eventually, they too will be driven elsewhere.
Take a look at the following faction warfare map, I'm going to use east/west based on how it's drawn:
(image) http://i.imgur.com/Kj57r.png
I propose pulling all Minmatar assets back to Dal. Give the Amarr one (maybe two) weeks to retake all systems east of Dal (except Amamake). There can still be good fights throughout the week, simply no plexing in the systems we're giving up. We don't snark and snipe at them either "Oh, it took us being charitable to get you back on your feet blah blah blah." **** that. This is as much for our good as it is there's. CCP is to blame for the situation we're in, for not resetting faction warfare when they implemented the new system. The Goons are as much to blame for causing much of the Amarrian malaise. We're to blame for rubbing all of this, which was out of Amarr control, in their face for the last couple months. Which all leads to where we are now: a dude wants to do better by himself, get out of the rut he's in, but can't quite get the leg up he needs, not without a little help from friends.
After battle continues, if the Amarr then lose all their systems again, well, tough. But I'm willing to bet with some systems under their belts, the occasional shot at T4 control, that the Amarr side will be revitalized, and southern faction warfare will be as most of us imagined it to be.
All it would take to make this happen would be the cooperation of a few of the larger Minmatar FW alliances: Iron Oxide, Late Night Alliance, Defiant Legacy, and a few others. Get the word out, and get people in line, on pain of getting blowed up real good. The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
290
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 04:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
inb4 this becomes a thread about Fweddit as the savior for Amarr... Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
426
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 05:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't want your effin charity Poetic. I'm going to kick your ass back to Rens even if I have to do it myself. |
Euasked
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 05:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fact is, Minnie militia is loaded full of plexbears from both sides while amarr is full of toons that are there for fights, with both sides having exceptions of course. Additionally, pulling back for a couple weeks wont change the fact that the minmatar LP store simply has better ships in regards to FW as the only superior Amarr ships are in the rarely used battleship class. It feels to me like the most influential powers on both sides of the conflict like it just the way it is, with tier V providing maximum benefit for their plexing alts.
Working as intended? |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
968
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 05:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:I'm going to kick your ass back to Rens even if I have to do it myself. If you're going to kick my ass back to Rens, how would that happen if it was not you who were to do it?
I think I'm already sitting in Rens.
So. You. Win.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 05:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
No one want to kill good minmatar LP farm, every side has farmers in minmatar militia.
Fights are somewhere else. |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
968
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 05:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Euasked wrote:Fact is, Minnie militia is loaded full of plexbears from both sides. The plexbear problem is solved if Amarr could gain control of half the Minnie/Amarr systems. That would situation both sides in the T2/T3 range, with rare forays into T4. Sort of like what the Caldari/Gallente situation is currently like. If plexbears can't buy regularly at T4/T5, they'll go find something else to do.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
968
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 05:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:No one want to kill good minmatar LP farm. I do.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
241
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 05:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
No thanks, we only need 1 system, and don't even care if that's inside the war zone or not. Rod Back springs to mind. Minnies wanted/want all systems, to win. Take um, no fucks will be given.
Lets see what happens to your pvp when you get what you wanted. Hell look forward to your gate camps on high sec entry points cause thats the only time you see a wt. Guess none of you were around when 98% of Caldari lived in Nourv. Most pvp happened on 1 gate, either against Pirates or the Gals. It was insanely boring.
BTW, even IF you did move out of Kourm, Houla, Lamaa, Auga, Sosala, Raa, Arzad and said, all yours Amarr. I would not take out a single plexing roam. The reason being, your t1 speed frig alts gangs that infest your side would only have new ground in which to farm.
So, no thanks. Take your war zone control and blue balls and go fish. |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
968
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:No thanks, we only need 1 system, and don't even care if that's inside the war zone or not. Rod Back springs to mind. Minnies wanted/want all systems, to win. Take um, no fucks will be given.
Lets see what happens to your pvp when you get what you wanted. Hell look forward to your gate camps on high sec entry points cause thats the only time you see a wt. Guess none of you were around when 98% of Caldari lived in Nourv. Most pvp happened on 1 gate, either against Pirates or the Gals. It was insanely boring.
BTW, even IF you did move out of Kourm, Houla, Lamaa, Auga, Sosala, Raa, Arzad and said, all yours Amarr. I would not take out a single plexing roam. The reason being, your t1 speed frig alts gangs that infest your side would only have new ground in which to farm.
So, no thanks. Take your war zone control and blue balls and go fish. Fair enough, dude.
How would you fix the situation? Running to Caldari space seems like no fix at all. Just a waiting game until a similar situation happens there. The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
|
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
290
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
If you're not getting the action you want down there, then just move up to Gal/Cal space for a bit. Or try a weekend excursion. Tons of people do this all the time. You fight new enemies and gain a new perspective.
It's too bad CCP won't give you guys more systems to equal what we have up here. The space out here is so big and there are so many enclaves to fight in.
I had considered moving down there but the way the war zone is designed down there makes things too boring. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
jasper beamsalot
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
give up auga? hell noes, would take me a week of frieghter runs to move my assets. But still interesting idea, no hope in hell of it happening in reality thou. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
241
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:No thanks, we only need 1 system, and don't even care if that's inside the war zone or not. Rod Back springs to mind. Minnies wanted/want all systems, to win. Take um, no fucks will be given.
Lets see what happens to your pvp when you get what you wanted. Hell look forward to your gate camps on high sec entry points cause thats the only time you see a wt. Guess none of you were around when 98% of Caldari lived in Nourv. Most pvp happened on 1 gate, either against Pirates or the Gals. It was insanely boring.
BTW, even IF you did move out of Kourm, Houla, Lamaa, Auga, Sosala, Raa, Arzad and said, all yours Amarr. I would not take out a single plexing roam. The reason being, your t1 speed frig alts gangs that infest your side would only have new ground in which to farm.
So, no thanks. Take your war zone control and blue balls and go fish. Fair enough, dude. How would you fix the situation? Running to Caldari space seems like no fix at all. Just a waiting game until a similar situation happens there.
Fix? It doesn't need fixing. As Hans likes to say Working as Intended. If you're not getting fights it isn't Us that need to head to Black Rise. We're getting pvp, so no reason for use to do anything. You're the ones that seems to not find someone to shoot.
Like I said, we only need 1 system. For those that make isk solo from FW. A minnie alt has already been made and been running for sometime. |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
150
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Fweddit won't stick around if the situation continues to deteriorate. Do we want to see them head to the Caldari?
YES! |
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:How would you fix the situation? Running to Caldari space seems like no fix at all. Just a waiting game until a similar situation happens there.
If you imply that you send your farmers over here to take all Caldari systems, yes, that is what we fear and we already see your farming alts (corp description even advertises the fact proudly) spewing "Your mother should die" level of carbage to local when we chase them out. (Internet space pixels is seriouz biznes)
Fortunately there are methods which we will be implementing and it should stop us losing our systems or at least make Caldari farmers even more fabulously rich even if we lose them all.
|
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
LOL ... it is really funny ....
before the patch I told Hans and CCP ..... "if any big alliance will enter one side of the FW for Lulz and isk it will completely destabilize the system and flush over the battlefield very fast causing destabilization of other side for months"
So far nothing like that happened on the Cald/Gal front and Caldari are slowly grinding their progress with quite good amount of gf and ganks (no fast shifts - gals sometimes regain, cals regains - decent battlefronts, bloberry as intended). I am just wondering which null sec entity will come and help Gals.
On the other hand - Amarr has to boot corps like WBR who working with galente and just taking space in recruitment ranks.
I believe Amarrs should be able to settle on the edge of FW in lowsec and cause some havoc and plex back some systems. RONIN did the same after patch and we were able to take our foothold. IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
241
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Confirming W-BR is the devil |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
201
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Can we please stop pretending the goons thing had any impact on the warzone, its just getting silly now. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Confirming W-BR is the devil
nah, they are just gallente puppets |
Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
427
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
It wouldn't fix anything. Amarr needs to reinvent itself and it needs new pilots to do that. Retiring to the periphery and getting some breathing room is probably the best thing it can do right now. Wage a guerrilla war.
This isn't the first time one side has dominated in FW. The winning team invariably moves to greener pastures or starts to fracture as boredom sets in. Barring more imaginative game mechanics that is the historical cycle. |
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
And why should Amarr take any system at all when plexing has yet to be fixed, incentives are out of whack (x16 difference, Trololololled by Soundwave) and they need to capture everything way deep into Heimatar+ to get highest tier or even second highest. Someone did the math a while ago: Every system taken equals some absurd number of billions for Shakor as alts farm it back again ..
Also, "lol" at return to 'good fights' .. as long as incentives are as high as they are you'd need some serious mechanics magic to make it more than FarmVilleGäó, Eve Edition. The winter patch may rejuvenate FW if CCP are willing to design it based on more than brainfarts from hung-over Devs/players .. but since it would require almost all of the Inferno changes be axed/heavily modified the chances are slim to none (would be admission of ineptitude).
Tl;dr: FW will remain an Eve version of FarmVilleGäó for the foreseeable future. Enjoy.
PS: Current state of affairs on both fronts was accurately predicted by us in the common sense/logic crowd and since we are not omniscient one can only conclude that it could have been easily avoided had CCP done their homework. PPS: Noticing that a lot/most of the people who said "OMG THIS IS AWESOME!" immediately after the patch have applied to be let back into the "Fix FW Club". Please be patient as we ramp up activity again. |
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:This isn't the first time one side has dominated in FW. The winning team invariably moves to greener pastures or starts to fracture as boredom sets in. Barring more imaginative game mechanics that is the historical cycle.
Since when? It's not like many existing people have left FW area despite lopside dominance. What has changed except now they can play the violin while they slowly and tragically drown to an overflowing isk...
Most people leaving FW are entities which come to take a look for a week or two, dont really get integrated into it and move on. Also, apparently XxxPizza fractured to draketrain and Paronit, with Draketrain going for Amarr militia and apparently now leaving it/having already left it.
Nasranite Watch is recruiting of course (already have old Draketrain guys returning) on the levels that I actually had to start reading more corporation management skills because I never expected this many people would want to join
|
Sigorn MagnarOfThen
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
LOL. If CCP doesn-¦t do anything within the next 6 months it will be probably bankrupt. Did someone count how many additional players are buying plex now instead of paying with real cash? I knew some guys who are happy that they have made 10 plexes (30day Pilot License) in only two weeks. In my alts Corp (I am an alt too) there are almost 30 players farming all the time. Probably there are HUNDREDS of players farming and buying Plex for the next two years. Let us assume there are 500 players (I suppose there are a lot more) farming like hell. Well 500 players each probably 5 plex -> 37500 Euros. In only two weeks! And 5 Pilots licenses is really understated. I know people who made over 20 in 2 weeks. Let this happen half a year and there won-¦t be eve anymore. Especially because there are coming more and more farmers. I personally am tired of farming but if I can make about some hundred euros with it... why not. If CCP doesnt do anything it will loose millions of dollars simply because players do not need to pay for the next some years. Eve-> Free to play. Let me farm two further months and I will have possibly gametime till 2020. THE WHOLE THING IS A MESS! What we need is a HUGE Minmatar ship nerf and a completely FW restart. IMEDIALTELY! |
Lexmana
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
603
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:I would not take out a single plexing roam. Of course you wont plex for Amarr. You do it with your Minnie alt. What side did you say you were fighting for?
|
Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
427
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
If you have a wallet with several billion isk in it and you can't find the PvP you originally signed up for - you'll go pirate, go null, or possibly even switch sides. Eve101 is keep your troops entertained or at the very least they will stop logging in as often. |
Bengal Bob
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
58
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
THis helpful link demonstrates the current situation nicely. Amarr are of course the Romans, whilst the Minmatar are the Gauls.
http://asterixonline.info/comics/mangas/Asterix%20Comics/23%20-%20Obelix%20and%20Co/23-%20Obelix%20and%20Co%2808%29.jpg
Credit to Merely Runaway for finding this |
Tekitha
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sigorn MagnarOfThen wrote:LOL. If CCP doesn-¦t do anything within the next 6 months it will be probably bankrupt. Did someone count how many additional players are buying plex now instead of paying with real cash? I knew some guys who are happy that they have made 10 plexes (30day Pilot License) in only two weeks. In my alts Corp (I am an alt too) there are almost 30 players farming all the time. Probably there are HUNDREDS of players farming and buying Plex for the next two years. Let us assume there are 500 players (I suppose there are a lot more) farming like hell. Well 500 players each probably 5 plex -> 37500 Euros. In only two weeks! And 5 Pilots licenses is really understated. I know people who made over 20 in 2 weeks. Let this happen half a year and there won-¦t be eve anymore. Especially because there are coming more and more farmers. I personally am tired of farming but if I can make about some hundred euros with it... why not. If CCP doesnt do anything it will loose millions of dollars simply because players do not need to pay for the next some years. Eve-> Free to play. Let me farm two further months and I will have possibly gametime till 2020. THE WHOLE THING IS A MESS! What we need is a HUGE Minmatar ship nerf and a completely FW restart. IMEDIALTELY!
Simply wow, you are possibly the stupidest person I've ever come across.
Where exactly do you think those plex are coming from? ... You think CCP seeds them onto the Market. Infact ccp make more money from the buying and selling of plex than they do from subscriptions, since subscriptions are discounted slightly when you subscribe for more than one month at a time.
Protip: think before you write a wall of drivel. |
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
134
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Confirming W-BR is the devil
Actually not ... u just crippling factions u joined ... no biggie ... I am not paying ur subscription and we all have our special traits. IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:42:00 -
[29] - Quote
Of course in said comic (One of the best Asterix ones out there) the capitalism which is introduced to Gauls as means to sell/purchase useless item eventually crashes Roman economy too. Then again, it might not happen here since stabber fleet issue is ultimately more useful than a big rock that you cannot even use mining lasers to |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:No one want to kill good minmatar LP farm. I do.
If you really want to do that you can join the crusader which is called already. |
|
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
85
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
(tl;dr I propose that Minmatar give up all systems east of Dal, excepting Amamake. Reset faction warfare of our own accord, get back to good fights.)
There is no chance in hell that this is going to happen, Alot of hard work and plexing has been done over many years to get us to the level we are at now, Personally I've been plexing since I joined our corp nearly 2 years ago and now someone who has been in FW for a month is telling me we should give our systems up!!
NOT A CHANCE
**Murientor Tribe** Killing Slavers, Ammatar and Nafantar Traitors since YC107 |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
114
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
While I can see where you're coming from Poetic it's a terrible idea.
The Amarr corps leaving to go off and do other things really isn't terrible, people will recover their wallets and get their enthusiasm back while away and at some point the temptation to return is likely to kick in.
FW doesn't need to be going full on 23.5x7, dips in activity are perfectly fine and while our side goes off to do something else the Minmatar can go roaming of various other low sec systems/null etc to keep themselves busy.
As an example just look at the Caldari. A short while before Inferno everyone said their side was totally dead and buried yet now that warzone is vibrant again and they're making a fight out of it.
Patience is the key just give it time. |
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
19
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Markius TheShed wrote:Alot of hard work and plexing has been done over many years to get us to the level we are at now, Personally I've been plexing since I joined our corp nearly 2 years ago and now someone who has been in FW for a month is telling me we should give our systems up!!
You do understand most of the system flipping happened in past few months due to changes in mechanism. Before that your front was more or less stagnated. Amarr owned Siseide/Lantorn for ages and nothing much else happened, except the time PERVS demonstrated how gallente invented plex bug worked and flipped most of Metropolis (which matar retook quickly since no Amarr were there to hold the systems) and the time I was paid 100k isk to flip all systems in Eugidi constellation with Unfamed II.
So even a full reset would actually change very little in regards to "time spent". |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
241
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 09:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:I would not take out a single plexing roam. Of course you wont plex for Amarr. You do it with your Minnie alt. What side did you say you were fighting for?
Mission sweetie, Mission. Only 1 of my minnie alts is a new out the can flower. The other joined the Minnies before I joined Amarr. I only plexed to get L4 missions. As for what side I fight for, why that would be my side.
I gave up on General Militia during our final months in Caldari FW. Maybe things have changed but, I'm no longer prepared to find out.
Besides as many others have stated, most of the Amarr are just in it for the pvp. I'll be honest, I'm only in it now because my corp is. Beyond that, I can take it or leave it. Doesn't matter to me who name is on a system, should the one we're living in be lost, there is always the option of living off the alts and the CEO pressing the exit FW button. Eve is abound with choice, we actually already made ours, |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Caldari State Capturing
31
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 11:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sigorn MagnarOfThen wrote:LOL. If CCP doesn-¦t do anything within the next 6 months it will be probably bankrupt. Did someone count how many additional players are buying plex now instead of paying with real cash? I knew some guys who are happy that they have made 10 plexes (30day Pilot License) in only two weeks. In my alts Corp (I am an alt too) there are almost 30 players farming all the time. Probably there are HUNDREDS of players farming and buying Plex for the next two years. Let us assume there are 500 players (I suppose there are a lot more) farming like hell. Well 500 players each probably 5 plex -> 37500 Euros. In only two weeks! And 5 Pilots licenses is really understated. I know people who made over 20 in 2 weeks. Let this happen half a year and there won-¦t be eve anymore. Especially because there are coming more and more farmers. I personally am tired of farming but if I can make about some hundred euros with it... why not. If CCP doesnt do anything it will loose millions of dollars simply because players do not need to pay for the next some years. Eve-> Free to play. Let me farm two further months and I will have possibly gametime till 2020. THE WHOLE THING IS A MESS! What we need is a HUGE Minmatar ship nerf and a completely FW restart. IMEDIALTELY!
Someone still buys the plexes and puts them on the market. Plexes cost more than their worth in subscribed game time (unless you pay monthly).
So CCP is already making a killing selling plex - the amount of plex sold in game can't change due to the farming.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing
320
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 11:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tekitha wrote:Sigorn MagnarOfThen wrote:LOL. If CCP doesn-¦t do anything within the next 6 months it will be probably bankrupt. Did someone count how many additional players are buying plex now instead of paying with real cash? I knew some guys who are happy that they have made 10 plexes (30day Pilot License) in only two weeks. In my alts Corp (I am an alt too) there are almost 30 players farming all the time. Probably there are HUNDREDS of players farming and buying Plex for the next two years. Let us assume there are 500 players (I suppose there are a lot more) farming like hell. Well 500 players each probably 5 plex -> 37500 Euros. In only two weeks! And 5 Pilots licenses is really understated. I know people who made over 20 in 2 weeks. Let this happen half a year and there won-¦t be eve anymore. Especially because there are coming more and more farmers. I personally am tired of farming but if I can make about some hundred euros with it... why not. If CCP doesnt do anything it will loose millions of dollars simply because players do not need to pay for the next some years. Eve-> Free to play. Let me farm two further months and I will have possibly gametime till 2020. THE WHOLE THING IS A MESS! What we need is a HUGE Minmatar ship nerf and a completely FW restart. IMEDIALTELY! Simply wow, you are possibly the stupidest person I've ever come across. Where exactly do you think those plex are coming from? ... You think CCP seeds them onto the Market. Infact ccp make more money from the buying and selling of plex than they do from subscriptions, since subscriptions are discounted slightly when you subscribe for more than one month at a time. Protip: think before you write a wall of drivel.
This...
But let me take one step further with numbers...
1 month subscription = $14.95 CAD (this is my local currency, do math for yours) 1 PLEX = $19.95
So if you farm and bought PLEX until 2020...that is, from today 102 months. So instead of paying your sub from now until 2020, which would be 14.95 x 102 = $1,524.90. You decided to pay for your sub using PLEX that someone had to buy at 19.95. So the math there is 19.95 x 102 = $2,034.90. Let me say "working as intended"
Sigorn MagnarOfThen wrote:If CCP doesn-¦t do anything within the next 6 months it will be probably bankrupt. If CCP goes bankrupt from....I dunno making money (how the f*ck this works is beyond me) You'll be at a personal loss of over $2,000. Not me! Do you know what a sh*t-barometer is? It measures the sh*t-pressure in the air, did you hear that? The sounds of the whispering winds of sh*t... |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
85
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:03:00 -
[37] - Quote
You seem to have changed your mind about war since you said this Poetic
Poetic Stanziel wrote: From the Jade conspiracy Blog post...............
Making wars fair is not a design consideration. Why should war be fair? In the history of human existence, when has war been fair? Oh, we have 2 to 1 advantage over you? Oh, you don't have any cavalry? Well, we'll just sit out all our horsemen and half our army, wouldn't be fair otherwise. Sorry about that. Okay, let's start the fighting. EVE is a simulator of human conflict, artificial rules to even playing fields is not EVE, that's some other game, like World of Warcraft, with their battlegrounds and arenas. Go play that if you want a semblance of fairness.
And now you want to make FW fair?? Make your mind up will you.
**Murientor Tribe** Killing Slavers, Ammatar and Nafantar Traitors since YC107 |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
161
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Sigorn MagnarOfThen wrote:LOL. If CCP doesn-¦t do anything within the next 6 months it will be probably bankrupt. Did someone count how many additional players are buying plex now instead of paying with real cash? I knew some guys who are happy that they have made 10 plexes (30day Pilot License) in only two weeks. In my alts Corp (I am an alt too) there are almost 30 players farming all the time. Probably there are HUNDREDS of players farming and buying Plex for the next two years. Let us assume there are 500 players (I suppose there are a lot more) farming like hell. Well 500 players each probably 5 plex -> 37500 Euros. In only two weeks! And 5 Pilots licenses is really understated. I know people who made over 20 in 2 weeks. Let this happen half a year and there won-¦t be eve anymore. Especially because there are coming more and more farmers. I personally am tired of farming but if I can make about some hundred euros with it... why not. If CCP doesnt do anything it will loose millions of dollars simply because players do not need to pay for the next some years. Eve-> Free to play. Let me farm two further months and I will have possibly gametime till 2020. THE WHOLE THING IS A MESS! What we need is a HUGE Minmatar ship nerf and a completely FW restart. IMEDIALTELY!
CCP made FW changes for people like you who are willing to pay several accounts and farming isk and PLEX.
Whole expansion was about making people swarm more alts, so CCP is not going to change it until subs start to decrease. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2678
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 14:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/07/faction-warfare-resuscitating-amarr.htmlIt was malaise. I was under the impression that the Amarr were giving up systems (as of yesterday, they had six systems under their control, out of over 65 systems) so that their alts could cash in on the T5 warzone control Minmatar achieved on Sunday. (tl;dr I propose that Minmatar give up all systems east of Dal, excepting Amamake. Reset faction warfare of our own accord, get back to good fights.)(snipped bits of the argument to make space for the reply -Jade)
Take a look at the following faction warfare map, I'm going to use east/west based on how it's drawn: (image) http://i.imgur.com/Kj57r.pngI propose pulling all Minmatar assets back to Dal. Give the Amarr one (maybe two) weeks to retake all systems east of Dal (except Amamake). There can still be good fights throughout the week, simply no plexing in the systems we're giving up. We don't snark and snipe at them either "Oh, it took us being charitable to get you back on your feet blah blah blah." **** that. This is as much for our good as it is there's. CCP is to blame for the situation we're in, for not resetting faction warfare when they implemented the new system. The Goons are as much to blame for causing much of the Amarrian malaise. We're to blame for rubbing all of this, which was out of Amarr control, in their face for the last couple months. Which all leads to where we are now: a dude wants to do better by himself, get out of the rut he's in, but can't quite get the leg up he needs, not without a little help from friends. All it would take to make this happen would be the cooperation of a few of the larger Minmatar FW alliances: Iron Oxide, Late Night Alliance, Defiant Legacy, and a few others. Get the word out, and get people in line, on pain of getting blowed up real good.
Its against some pretty tough competition but this is about the worst blog post you ever made Poetic. For a person who was virtually kissing Soundwave's shadow about the notion that "war in eve wasn't fair" a couple of weeks ago now you think the player base should have to consensually "make it fair" by giving up systems that were hard and honestly fought for in the run up to Inferno and in the weeks since?
Your conclusions are wrong - the Goon impact was pretty minimal in the grand scheme of things, and a reset of FW occupancy for Inferno would have been profoundly anti-sandbox and have made a mockery of the efforts of players in the years before Inferno. You are also pretty clueless on the role that an organization like Fweddit plays in the grand scheme - sure they were amusing to fight for a bit at the beginning when they were taking any fight that was offered and trying to make up with numbers what their members lacked in skills etc etc - but they also have become embittered and risk-averse in recent weeks and now just want to gank or run like the rest. They are nothing special in other words - if they don't want to plex occupancy it simply means they don't want to play FW really - nobody gets rewarded for not playing the game.
More importantly : Eve Online used to be a game about consequences and player-led dynamic outcomes (even in hisec/lowsec) when players achieve things (like dominating an area of the faction warfare warzone) then the storyline should honour that with significance and impact (not just a gamey copout like an occupancy reset) - things should change, the impact should matter, we should leave a mark on this universe by our actions.
If you want to argue that FW mechanics are currently too brutal in punishing the losers then I will tend with agree with you. But the resolution to this issue needs to come from CCP design work and the adjustment needs to honour the principles of the dynamic sandbox and redress the balance while acknowledging the outcome.
Here's a back of a beermat suggestion how that can be done.
"Amarr government issues an emergency press release acknowledging the need for additional imperial funding to support the beleaguered 24th Crusade which otherwise faces total collapse. Effective immediately transaction taxes in all Amarr hisec will be increased to provide additional support to bolster the 24th Crusade loyalty point store. This will have the impact of granting effective tier 3 prices regardless of currently warzone control with a 10% transaction tax penalty in Amarr Hisec while the actual warzone control remains at 1 (reducing to 5% transaction tax penalty if warzone control raises to 2) and normalizing to zero if the 24th crusade can attain a level 3 warzone control. The Empress urges all 24th Crusade Fighters to remain loyal in this time of the crisis for the imperium"
This would give the 24th a chance to cash in their lps at pre Inferno level and fund their fight back. It punishes ANYONE attempting to conduct business in Amarr hisec to represent the fact that the Amarrian Empire is needing to divert massive funding to support the 24th through tax levies on business. It directly provides incentive for the 24th to hold onto their remaining lowsec assets and introduces a mechanic which will in play until the 24th normalizes the warzone."
On the other side of the coin the Matari Republic probably needs to issue some commemorative medals for the achievement. (And CCP should write some fiction and storyline to represent the map dynamic.)
***
And that's a five minute example of how this kind of thing can be addressed without a nonsense consenual surrender of territory on the black of a bleating blog full of half baked misunderstandings and nonsense. The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
968
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 15:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
Markius TheShed wrote:You seem to have changed your mind about war since you said this Poetic Poetic Stanziel wrote: From the Jade conspiracy Blog post...............
Making wars fair is not a design consideration. Why should war be fair? In the history of human existence, when has war been fair? Oh, we have 2 to 1 advantage over you? Oh, you don't have any cavalry? Well, we'll just sit out all our horsemen and half our army, wouldn't be fair otherwise. Sorry about that. Okay, let's start the fighting. EVE is a simulator of human conflict, artificial rules to even playing fields is not EVE, that's some other game, like World of Warcraft, with their battlegrounds and arenas. Go play that if you want a semblance of fairness. And now you want to make FW fair?? Make your mind up will you. I'm not asking CCP to make the war fair ... I'm suggesting we perform a reset of our own accord, for long-term health of FW, especially in the south.
Big difference between asking CCP to design fairness, or just doing something ourselves, as players, to keep CCP from butting in with their design changes down the road, if things get too out of whack.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
|
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2678
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 15:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: I'm not asking CCP to make the war fair ... I'm suggesting we perform a reset of our own accord, for long-term health of FW, especially in the south. Big difference between asking CCP to design fairness, or just doing something ourselves, as players, to keep CCP from butting in with their design changes down the road, if things get too out of whack.
Perhaps you'd like to ask the Mittani to voluntarily surrender his war against the star fraction and pay a 10b ISK defeat surcharge to me on the grounds that after 5 weeks of warfare his side lost 15b isk to 2b killed and so would be fair enough to consentually fall on his sword. (Or is that ridiculous?)
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
969
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 15:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:And that's a five minute example of how this kind of thing can be addressed without a nonsense consenual surrender of territory on the black of a bleating blog full of half baked misunderstandings and nonsense. This coming from the person who was championing the notion of a CCP->Goon conspiracy at every level of game design and development.
Other than your rudeness, you make some good points.
Like I've said before, I enjoy throwing out ideas, and reading where the discussion goes from there.
The money at L5 is ridiculous. Basically, doing 10 L4 FW missions can net you 1.5B ISK. (Taking my own experience and profit, in to account, when spending 250K LP at T5 warzone control.) That's an amount of money that is out of line with even Incursions at their worst.
Maybe all that needs to be fixed are LP store payouts at the various control levels. So that T1 isn't so hopeless and expensive, and T5 isn't so ricidulously lucrative. The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2678
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 15:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:This coming from the person who was championing the notion of a CCP->Goon conspiracy at every level of game design and development.
Well, I'm not really "CCP->Goon" was the right way round But I think we saw from the result of the 1.1 Wardec changes that certain interests were benefited, others were ignored.
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Other than your rudeness, you make some good points.
And amusingly (yes I did read your conspiracy blog Poetic) I'm not sure you are best placed to talk about "rudeness."
Poetic Stanziel wrote:The money at L5 is ridiculous. Basically, doing 10 L4 FW missions can net you 1.5B ISK. (Taking my own experience and profit, in to account, when spending 250K LP at T5 warzone control.) That's an amount of money that is out of line with even Incursions at their worst. Maybe all that needs to be fixed are LP store payouts at the various control levels. So that T1 isn't so hopeless and expensive, and T5 isn't so ricidulously lucrative.
So why are we rushing to fix massive income for the winners of the Faction Warfare minigame in Eve Online while doing nothing about massive income for the winners of the 0.0 minigame "moon income" again?
0.0 has been ridiculously lucrative for moon-goo-victors for the last five years. At this point we're not even sure Soundwave will find the time to deal with the situation by this christmas. Why are we worrying about Faction Warfare billionaires when the 0.0 moon economy trillionaires have made all territorial conflict in nullsec a pretty sad joke for the past half decade and foreseeable future? The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Asari Tadaruwa
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 15:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
one thing that no one has mentioned yet either is that fact that FWEDDIT while has 600 members. The average skill points of those members is less than 5m. 90% of the corp was created within a week of when the new system was released.
No reason for FWEDDIT to plex a system and take it to have it retaken by overwhelming force the next day. Thus giving the minnies roughly 20b for taking it.
I am sure that Amarr will end up taking their systems back at some point but it wont be this week.
Wait till FWEDDIT has some skill points and are actually able to fight a more even ship fight. As it stands we run in with cruisers and below win a fight then they reship to BC. so we find something else to do.
no system reset is needed. Just going to take some time to get things working on Amarr side again.
Also someone said how little impact the goons made for FW. That is totally misunderstood on how that effected it. The entire Minnie side sat there for weeks with super cheap ships. For the same cost of a thrasher we are fighting against some form of faction frig. So we have been for weeks out shipped by people spending hte same amount as us but getting alot better ships.
that isnt a complaint its just explaining better how the goons effected the war. I personally enjoy it. i undock fly 2 jumps and am able to find a fight. thats alot better than flying 10 jumps and not seeing another soul like on the minnie side. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2678
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 15:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Asari Tadaruwa wrote:one thing that no one has mentioned yet either is that fact that FWEDDIT while has 600 members. The average skill points of those members is less than 5m. 90% of the corp was created within a week of when the new system was released.
No reason for FWEDDIT to plex a system and take it to have it retaken by overwhelming force the next day. Thus giving the minnies roughly 20b for taking it.
I am sure that Amarr will end up taking their systems back at some point but it wont be this week.
Wait till FWEDDIT has some skill points and are actually able to fight a more even ship fight. As it stands we run in with cruisers and below win a fight then they reship to BC. so we find something else to do.
no system reset is needed. Just going to take some time to get things working on Amarr side again.
Also someone said how little impact the goons made for FW. That is totally misunderstood on how that effected it. The entire Minnie side sat there for weeks with super cheap ships. For the same cost of a thrasher we are fighting against some form of faction frig. So we have been for weeks out shipped by people spending hte same amount as us but getting alot better ships.
that isnt a complaint its just explaining better how the goons effected the war. I personally enjoy it. i undock fly 2 jumps and am able to find a fight. thats alot better than flying 10 jumps and not seeing another soul like on the minnie side.
The point is (and it was a point made pretty clearly last weekend) - the Minmatar didn't need Goons to push to tier 5 when the collective militia wanted an organized and near simultaneous cash out. The goons pushed it to tier 5 (for their exploit) before TLF was collectively ready I think - but it was inevitably going to happen within the next couple of weeks - we'd been talking about the strategy to make it happen for a month.
On your thoughts for the Minmatar side - I have to laugh. I base in Kourm. I undock and next door is 40-80 wartargets usually docked in Kam. One of my corp mates you might be aware of "Kedisa" has been living in your home hisec system for the last four weeks. Its not hard to find war targets as a Matari fighter. Plex Kamela and somebody will usually come.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
114
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 15:43:00 -
[46] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: Its not hard to find war targets as a Matari fighter.
For how long I wonder
Jade Constantine wrote: Plex Kamela and somebody will usually come.
That should change as systems aren't important and that goes double for the plex in them. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2678
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 15:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: Its not hard to find war targets as a Matari fighter. For how long I wonder Jade Constantine wrote: Plex Kamela and somebody will usually come. That should change as systems aren't important and that goes double for the plex in them.
I'll believe it when I see it to be honest. Its just so easy for Amarr to fall back and base in Tuom, Choonka, Ohide around Kamela and skirmish in Kam and surrounding systems. That's precisely what they did back in the day when SF occupied Kamela in earnest back in the Space and Freedom campaign. Station lockout won't be that relevant when they will always have hisec. As for the plex in them - well, they jump ship to Caldari and suddenly they have tier 5 level rewards for plexing the system over. Its not rocket science really.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
114
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 16:19:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:
I'll believe it when I see it to be honest. Its just so easy for Amarr to fall back and base in Tuom, Choonka, Ohide around Kamela and skirmish in Kam and surrounding systems. That's precisely what they did back in the day when SF occupied Kamela in earnest back in the Space and Freedom campaign. Station lockout won't be that relevant when they will always have hisec. As for the plex in them - well, they jump ship to Caldari and suddenly they have tier 5 level rewards for plexing the system over. Its not rocket science really.
Maybe and maybe not.
IMHO jumping to Caldari should probably mean going the whole hog and going to Black Rise. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2678
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 16:33:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:
I'll believe it when I see it to be honest. Its just so easy for Amarr to fall back and base in Tuom, Choonka, Ohide around Kamela and skirmish in Kam and surrounding systems. That's precisely what they did back in the day when SF occupied Kamela in earnest back in the Space and Freedom campaign. Station lockout won't be that relevant when they will always have hisec. As for the plex in them - well, they jump ship to Caldari and suddenly they have tier 5 level rewards for plexing the system over. Its not rocket science really.
Maybe and maybe not. IMHO jumping to Caldari should probably mean going the whole hog and going to Black Rise.
Well there is a fair point of discussion actually - whether its actually reasonable for different allied militias to get LPs for the plexing the other bunches sites (ie Caldari getting Caldari LP's for plexing Minmatar sites or Minmatar getting Minmatar LPs for plexing Caldari sites.) Personally I've never liked this aspect of the design - but its arguable that it does provide a safety valve for a losing militia to dig themselves out a bit. The implications could do with looking at though. I take your point that it does probably end up with the ex Amarrian Caldari pilots going to black rise though - for the mission agents.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
ChipMo
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
13
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 17:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
No, we should not give the Amarr an inch. We should, and shall continue to eat them up until I get a nice shiny medal. |
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Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
115
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 17:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
ChipMo wrote:No, we should not give the Amarr an inch. We should, and shall continue to eat them up until I get a nice shiny medal.
Rusty medal, do you not pay attention? |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
124
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 17:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Well there is a fair point of discussion actually - whether its actually reasonable for different allied militias to get LPs for the plexing the other bunches sites
Huh? If Fweddit moves to Black Rise, they sure won't want to make Amarr LP out there; they'll be Caldari, making Caldari LP.
What's more interesting than this "fair point of discussion", for me, is why it's so fascinating a point of discussion for only Minmatar. I imagine the reasons are something like
1. We don't want Gallente ridings our LP coattails - they didn't earn it "like we did"!
2. We don't want Amarr to make any isk to fight us with. That's not their job! Their job is to provide us with farming opportunities, and with the EWAR nerf they should be able to do that in T1 frigs.
And apparently the Amarr-Caldari link is also troublesome for
3. We don't Amarr to escape to a 100 system (50 Caldari, 50 Gallente) battlefield that was designed for FW, that wasn't broken on day one, which still offers success through casual play (no "we can win this if only we work so hard and have so little fun that 0.0 sov wars really look much better in comparison" secret master plans), which still offers PvP funding even to brand-new players without alts. We've got a good LP fountain going here, why would these jerks want to enjoy Faction Warfare when they could just collaborate with us? |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
291
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 17:35:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:
3. We don't Amarr to escape to a 100 system (50 Caldari, 50 Gallente) battlefield that was designed for FW, that wasn't broken on day one, which still offers success through casual play (no "we can win this if only we work so hard and have so little fun that 0.0 sov wars really look much better in comparison" secret master plans), which still offers PvP funding even to brand-new players without alts. We've got a good LP fountain going here, why would these jerks want to enjoy Faction Warfare when they could just collaborate with us?
You make a good point. But you know and I know that no one cares about GFs. It's all about winning (at all cost) and epeening.I find it hypocritical though that Caldari publicly voice their displeasure about Amarr coming up here, and yet they collaborate with and encourage them to move up here privately.
The 100 system battlefield is such a hoot up here though. So many different pipes and enclaves to be discovered. CCP really should give Amarr/Minnies the same type of battlefield design. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Salicaz
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
47
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 17:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:
The 100 system battlefield is such a hoot up here though. So many different pipes and enclaves to be discovered. CCP really should give Amarr/Minnies the same type of battlefield design.
Same battlefield, same rat balance.....all too late now. Damage has been done although the minmitar claim it was all their brilliant "coordination" etc even though it's CCP design that makes the isk farmers controll where the pvper's dock.
And as for GF's .....lol, not content with huge Thrasher blobs they still use ecm boats in support despite a huge number advantage in my TZ
|
Alex Tremayne
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
30
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 17:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: (tl;dr I propose that Minmatar give up all systems east of Dal, excepting Amamake. Reset faction warfare of our own accord, get back to good fights.)
How should I put this..?
No.
When the enemy is down on the floor bleeding, you don't give them a helping hand up, you stomp on their face until they can't get back up.
Sadly, we can stomp the cockroaches of the Amarrian militia as much as we like and eventually the vermin will return, but we certainly don't make it easy for them.
Frankly, if you want to help them so badly, I think the best thing you could do for them, (and probably us) is switch sides and try to lead them to victory yourself. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
488
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 18:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:.... Not really the case. The Amarr side is simply disinterested, and many are packing up, moving north, where the battle lines are more evenly drawn; where there's something for both sides to fight over.
So, to those crowing that we can do it without Goon help, perhaps we're still lingering under the effects of what they did. If the Amarr are so disinterested that they aren't fighting back, then what sort of victory are we crowing over?....
You are confusing plexing and occupancy with fighting. Plexing was a pve activity when caldari took all gallente space and CCP changed nothing in inferno to make plexing a pvp activity.
If you want amarr to plex make it a pvp activity. But when I have an hour or so to play eve I have a choice to make. I can spend that hour and easilly capture 6 minor plexes deep in minmatar space without any pvp, or I can maybe capture about 2 plexes and get allot of pvp. I almost always choose the latter. So do most amarr.
The answer for faction war remains the same. Make the occupancy war a pvp mechanic. 2 things have been mentioned that can likely do this. 1) have the timer start ticking down if you warp out after a wartarget lands on grid or on grid with your accell gate. 2) Notify the militias when plexes are taken.
I usually go in busy minmatar systems to plex. But even then most times no one will come to fight. Maybe people are docked up or whatever. I don't know. But I often don't even finish a minor plex if it seems no one is going to enter the plex to fight.
I know at any given time someone on the minmatar side would like to fight for a plex. But they simply don't know I am there. CCP needs to fix this.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 18:57:00 -
[57] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:I find it hypocritical though that Caldari publicly voice their displeasure about Amarr coming up here, and yet they collaborate with and encourage them to move up here privately.
Why, it would be about as blatant as swapping from gallente to minmatar and still basing in Black Rise oh wait....And again, the moment your horde of matar farming alts stops running around in Black Rise, is the day we might pay your ramblings some heed.
Anyway, I dont recall anyone saying "No Amarr allowed" from Caldari militia. If they change their militia for this stint, no biggie. If they stay as "neutral", then we see how they behave around us since Amarr militias pirating around here goes way back but we are open minded and tolerant here in Caldari, unlike in the mob justice ruled Gallente.
|
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
293
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 19:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
Your spokesman for the State said so here.
Quote:I think its cheesy from both fronts because the Amar have no interest in bettering their space. They are only interested in it for the isk instead of the mechanics.
The gals are NOT even close to the same boat as the Amar you simply want to use someone elses work to achieve free ships.
The mechanics allow it but its still cheesy .
You cant use the amar's excuse
And I disagree witth Amar coming over.
I'm curious to know if WBR came over and joined you guys, would you welcome them with open arms and forgive them for the sake of "winning the war" ? Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
242
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 19:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Your spokesman for the State said so here. Quote:I think its cheesy from both fronts because the Amar have no interest in bettering their space. They are only interested in it for the isk instead of the mechanics.
The gals are NOT even close to the same boat as the Amar you simply want to use someone elses work to achieve free ships.
The mechanics allow it but its still cheesy .
You cant use the amar's excuse
And I disagree witth Amar coming over. I'm curious to know if WBR came over and joined you guys, would you welcome them with open arms and forgive them for the sake of "winning the war" ?
That would be a no. A lot of Caldari didn't like us when we were their before not likely to change should we rejoin.
I'd also like to point out at this moment, we have alt corps in All three other Militias, Its not out of hand that we could use the alts in those corps to tweak our own standings and join any militia.
CCP made that remarkably easier the moment they stupidly lowered the entry level to 0. Though I doubt we be joining any other militia.
As I've stated before, once gone from Amarr we be gone. |
Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility
42
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 23:09:00 -
[60] - Quote
Can only hope your corporation leaves and is successful outside of factional warfare. Many have failed and few have survived and almost none bar 1 - 4 corporations have had success. The most successful X-factional warfare corporation is No Mercy. They even had tech moons in the north @ some point and lead a very successful pvp alliance (one of the best ingame @ the time).
The first to go are the pilots who need to be hand held and want things easy and are opposed to difficulty. They often account for 30 - 70% of a corporation. They tend to go back to milltia. Happened to Dark rising within a month of leaving. Also, not suprised to see them back in milltia lol.
If you don't get your corporation use to engaging in piracy and engagements in 0.0.
Not to mention making an income outside of factional warfare sources. Leaving can be a death nail lol. There's alot of fail atempt to learn from so Im sure future atempts will be different. |
|
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
293
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 23:20:00 -
[61] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Can only hope your corporation leaves and is successful outside of factional warfare. Many have failed and few have survived and almost none bar 1 - 4 corporations have had success. The most successful X-factional warfare corporation is No Mercy. They even had tech moons in the north @ some point and lead a very successful pvp alliance (one of the best ingame @ the time).
The first to go are the pilots who need to be hand held and want things easy and are opposed to difficulty. They often account for 30 - 70% of a corporation. They tend to go back to milltia. Happened to Dark rising within a month of leaving. Also, not suprised to see them back in milltia lol.
If you don't get your corporation use to engaging in piracy and engagements in 0.0.
Not to mention making an income outside of factional warfare sources. Leaving can be a death nail lol. There's alot of fail atempt to learn from so Im sure future atempts will be different.
There's alot of truth in your statements. Though, I would say that the difficulty that arises from corps leaving has more to do with not being able to fly in disciplined fleet comps. Alot of FW is kitchen sink stuff. Leadership of a corp often don't have the vision to understand the challenges that lie ahead of them as they leave FW and try to do more non-FW pvp in low or null. Because of that, their pilots are not fully prepared for the harshness of non FW PVP.
Alot of pvp corps in FW don't always appreciate what they have till they leave.
Though, WBR should be fine since they do fly disciplined fleet comps and this isn't the first time they've left. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
52
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 23:41:00 -
[62] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:I'm curious to know if WBR came over and joined you guys, would you welcome them with open arms and forgive them for the sake of "winning the war" ? No, because they'd never actually be on our side. Push comes to shove, they'd side with their bropact buttbuddies in SOTF any day of the week, and they're proud of it. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
244
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 00:30:00 -
[63] - Quote
Dynast wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:I'm curious to know if WBR came over and joined you guys, would you welcome them with open arms and forgive them for the sake of "winning the war" ? No, because they'd never actually be on our side. Push comes to shove, they'd side with their bropact buttbuddies in SOTF any day of the week, and they're proud of it.
Yes, Honouring friends over random people that press a button to join a loose group of pilots which require nothing other then 0 standings with said faction. We are awful awful space pilots.
The corps are friends, let it go. Tis an old story that bores. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
489
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 00:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Dynast wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:I'm curious to know if WBR came over and joined you guys, would you welcome them with open arms and forgive them for the sake of "winning the war" ? No, because they'd never actually be on our side. Push comes to shove, they'd side with their bropact buttbuddies in SOTF any day of the week, and they're proud of it. Yes, Honouring friends over random people that press a button to join a loose group of pilots which require nothing other then 0 standings with said faction. We are awful awful space pilots.
The corps are friends, let it go. Tis an old story that bores.
I certainly can appreciate and agree with this. But what I don't understand is why you joined warring faction miliitas. Wouldn't joinign forces on one side or the other be better for all of you? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
489
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 00:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Major Killz wrote:Can only hope your corporation leaves and is successful outside of factional warfare. Many have failed and few have survived and almost none bar 1 - 4 corporations have had success. The most successful X-factional warfare corporation is No Mercy. They even had tech moons in the north @ some point and lead a very successful pvp alliance (one of the best ingame @ the time).
The first to go are the pilots who need to be hand held and want things easy and are opposed to difficulty. They often account for 30 - 70% of a corporation. They tend to go back to milltia. Happened to Dark rising within a month of leaving. Also, not suprised to see them back in milltia lol.
If you don't get your corporation use to engaging in piracy and engagements in 0.0.
Not to mention making an income outside of factional warfare sources. Leaving can be a death nail lol. There's alot of fail atempt to learn from so Im sure future atempts will be different. There's alot of truth in your statements. Though, I would say that the difficulty that arises from corps leaving has more to do with not being able to fly in disciplined fleet comps. Alot of FW is kitchen sink stuff. Having been in the theatre for the past 6 months, I've noticed many corps who can't grow beyond kitchen sinking. Leadership of a corp often don't have the vision to understand the challenges that lie ahead of them as they leave FW and try to do more non-FW pvp in low or null. Because of that, their pilots are not fully prepared for the harshness of non FW PVP. Alot of pvp corps in FW don't always appreciate what they have till they leave. Though, WBR should be fine since they do fly disciplined fleet comps and this isn't the first time they've left.
I think it depends on what you call success. I see going to null sec as a failure because it offers bad gameplay. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
293
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 00:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
You don't have to live in null. You can reside in lowsec and visit null to get fights. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
489
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 01:13:00 -
[67] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:You don't have to live in null. You can reside in lowsec and visit null to get fights. Heck people could do it now within FW instead of whining about lack of WTs in the theatre
I agree that can be fun. My corp did that for a while. But we didn't leave faction war to do it. Why eliminate that free wardec if you are in low sec?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
52
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 04:30:00 -
[68] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Yes, Honouring friends over random people that press a button to join a loose group of pilots which require nothing other then 0 standings with said faction. We are awful awful space pilots.
The corps are friends, let it go. Tis an old story that bores.[/i] It's a sad day when people who claim they're friends are afraid to fight each other in a video game. I mean damn, didn't you people ever play sports? Or at least, like, Halo, or Starcraft? It's perfectly normal to compete with friends in video games, I assure you. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
244
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 04:55:00 -
[69] - Quote
Dynast wrote:sYnc Vir wrote:Yes, Honouring friends over random people that press a button to join a loose group of pilots which require nothing other then 0 standings with said faction. We are awful awful space pilots.
The corps are friends, let it go. Tis an old story that bores.[/i] It's a sad day when people who claim they're friends are afraid to fight each other in a video game. I mean damn, didn't you people ever play sports? Or at least, like, Halo, or Starcraft? It's perfectly normal to compete with friends in video games, I assure you.
We became friends after more then a year off killing each other in EVE. I see no Reason to unblue them for the sake of poor In game RP. |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
52
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 05:06:00 -
[70] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:We became friends after more then a year off killing each other in EVE. I see no Reason to unblue them for the sake of poor In game RP. A more honest response would be that you're afraid to risk them not being your backers anymore, that you long since failed to make the cut as a nullsec corp and now hang on in faction warfare by dint of cross-militia metagaming and danegeld.
And of course, you still dodge the question of why, if you're so close with SOTF and just can't bear to do the spaceship pewpew thing against them, one of you hasn't switched to the others' side. |
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Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility
43
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 05:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
Well I'm glad Amarr are failing. We have many new members joining our corporations because of it.
What I dont understand is this.
I have no idea why these dudes are b!tching about income. Cant any of you mission in high sec? Cant you do exploration or go into wormholes? What the f*ck is the problem? It cant be isk. Sure you wont make as much as Minmatar LP @ system control @ level 4 -5. Meh! But you can still make a sh!t ton in wormholes, exploration sites and in 0.0
I only care about system control for role playing purposes and I'll fight a losing battol for that alone. From what im hearing, most pilots have no reason to fight over factional warfare systems apparently. Isk is not enough of a motivation. I'm also hearing and reading they've (amarr milltia) tried hard and failed. They can't win and its to late.
Oh welll! v0v someone has to win and someone has to lose. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
162
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 06:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
Major Killz wrote:Well I'm glad Amarr are failing. We have many new members joining our corporations because of it.
What I dont understand is this.
I have no idea why these dudes are b!tching about income. Cant any of you mission in high sec? Cant you do exploration or go into wormholes? What the f*ck is the problem? It cant be isk. Sure you wont make as much as Minmatar LP @ system control @ level 4 -5. Meh! But you can still make a sh!t ton in wormholes, exploration sites and in 0.0
I only care about system control for role playing purposes and I'll fight a losing battol for that alone. From what im hearing, most pilots have no reason to fight over factional warfare systems apparently. Isk is not enough of a motivation. I'm also hearing and reading they've (amarr milltia) tried hard and failed. They can't win and its to late.
Oh welll! v0v someone has to win and someone has to lose.
In minmatar militia you can do several billions isk in a day with low skill alts, quite much isk without effort and risk. |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
85
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 07:20:00 -
[73] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Markius TheShed wrote:You seem to have changed your mind about war since you said this Poetic Poetic Stanziel wrote: From the Jade conspiracy Blog post...............
Making wars fair is not a design consideration. Why should war be fair? In the history of human existence, when has war been fair? Oh, we have 2 to 1 advantage over you? Oh, you don't have any cavalry? Well, we'll just sit out all our horsemen and half our army, wouldn't be fair otherwise. Sorry about that. Okay, let's start the fighting. EVE is a simulator of human conflict, artificial rules to even playing fields is not EVE, that's some other game, like World of Warcraft, with their battlegrounds and arenas. Go play that if you want a semblance of fairness. And now you want to make FW fair?? Make your mind up will you. I'm not asking CCP to make the war fair ... I'm suggesting we perform a reset of our own accord, for long-term health of FW, especially in the south. Big difference between asking CCP to design fairness, or just doing something ourselves, as players, to keep CCP from butting in with their design changes down the road, if things get too out of whack.
So your saying we should make our cavalry get out of their ships and let the amarr take all the systems upto Dal (not including amamake cuz that's special piwates live there so they need to keep the system!!)
It does'nt matter if its us or ccp doing the resetting it's still making the War fair, So you have changed your mind about war being fair? **Murientor Tribe** Killing Slavers, Ammatar and Nafantar Traitors since YC107 |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
969
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 07:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:In minmatar militia you can do several billions isk in a day with low skill alts, quite much isk without effort and risk. Exactly. Doing 10 FW L4 missions will net you enough LP to earn 1.5+B ISK if the LP is cashed out at T5 warzone control. Ten missions for 1.5B ISK, that's ridiculous.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
969
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 07:27:00 -
[75] - Quote
Markius TheShed wrote:]It does'nt matter if its us or ccp doing the resetting it's still making the War fair, So you have changed your mind about war being fair? Sure it matters who's doing the resetting. CCP does it, it sets a horrible precedent.
If we were to do it and the Amarr lost all their systems all over again, then f*ck them, they obviously suck.
But I believe the Amarr are more victims of a borked system than anything else, and having started in a ****** position when the borked system was introduced, because of a previous borked system.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Markius TheShed
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
85
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 07:38:00 -
[76] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
But I believe the Amarr are more victims of a borked system than anything else, and having started in a ****** position when the borked system was introduced, because of a previous borked system.
No the Amarr are victim of not being interested in doing plexes, Look at dozens of threads about FW and you will see them stating they don't want to plex.
So why should we reward their idleness. **Murientor Tribe** Killing Slavers, Ammatar and Nafantar Traitors since YC107 |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
969
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 07:47:00 -
[77] - Quote
Markius TheShed wrote:So why should we reward their idleness. If it is, in fact, idleness, then they'll get bootstomped again, and all the smacktalk and propaganda that follows will have serious weight behind it. The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 08:05:00 -
[78] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Yes, Honouring friends over random people that press a button to join a loose group of pilots which require nothing other then 0 standings with said faction. We are awful awful space pilots.[/i]
Because clearly every other corporation & alliance in every militia is group of random and unorganised people, with the Wbr/SOTF being the only exceptions...
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PHPR Freighter
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 08:45:00 -
[79] - Quote
As an Amarrian fighter, I have been in Faction Warfare for the last week. Needless to say, I am having the time of my life. I have had a few near misses, where I died when my opponent was in hull, Ganked off of the station undocks of Fweddit's home station, and gone on roams in which I have died horribly. I am currently down to about 600k, and I am down 2 Destroyers, 7 interceptors and a cruiser.
That aside, I will admit I have debated a few times about going to minmatar and plex for a while. I only have about 47k LP and can't cash out on anything worthwhile other then ammo and boosters. I am actively trying to find 1v1 ships that can take down the vigils the ninja plexers uses, the dramials and the daredevils that everyone uses.
There has been talk about the militia on how to make things somewhat better. Currently, regardless of how many people plex, its a flat .9% increase/decrease and there is a set time for 1 person. If multiple people plex, you get a cut of the LP and the Standing, which makes it only for 1 person to plex at a time. Defensive plexing needs an increase to the % of the system control, to something like 1.5%, where as the offensive plexing needs to be increased slightly to 1%. There needs to be incentives to defensive plexing. Multiple people defensive plexing needs to bring the time down to actually encourage defensive plexing. Max would be 10/15/20 mins for plexes base, and min time would be 7.5/10/15 mins. I am just throwing random numbers out but that is the general gist of it. |
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
30
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 10:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Can we please stop pretending the goons thing had any impact on the warzone, its just getting silly now.
THIS! When the new FW model rolled IN the dmage had already been done! The difference is that on the last week prior to changes, amarr were packign and removing things from warzone in fear of being lcoked outside stations. At same time minamtar militia were balls in tryign to conquer as much as possible. 5 days after the FW patch and amarr milita was uterly broken because of their lack of unity and cowardice (not form all but from enough) just a few days before the patch. THEIR fault. Minamtar militia WORKED by itself for like 9 in 10 of the systems they own now. Goons intervention was only AFTER minmatar militi had supreme dominance and if it had any effect it was merely secondary and mostly on the morale of an already broken side.
A reset would be as stupid as a CCP intervention on 0.0! Its simply would means that nothing you do in game would be worth at all and the sandbox would be a huge lie.
Simplya LOT of people would disband of FW and the whoel system woudl fail if a reset was made.
When a 0.0 alliance is kicked out and they want to return they must do it by themselves or get friends to help! Nothing else matters ine ve. So amarr, grow some balls, get organized and do the PVP and YES do the plexing. 0.0 warfare also has its AMAZINGLY fun periods where you shoot structures for 2 hours in a row.
Want bennefits? WORK for them, new eden is not a place for beggars! |
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Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
30
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 10:24:00 -
[81] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Markius TheShed wrote:So why should we reward their idleness. If it is, in fact, idleness, then they'll get bootstomped again, and all the smacktalk and propaganda that follows will have serious weight behind it.
And that would mean that the systems minmatar took with their investment in time and money ( or you didnt knew about the freightters full of ruptures and destroiers that were basically given for free to people run plexes durign the days just before FW changes?) would be just given to lazy that decided to bug out and hide before the patch.
The income from FW is NOT execuse for basically ZERO mobilization! The ammount of isk you need to be active in FW plex running is around 8-10 M isk per week. You can fill that with 1 hour of missions per month in high sec. So STOP MAKING EXCUSES! |
Yuri Intaki
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
21
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 11:21:00 -
[82] - Quote
PHPR Freighter wrote:As an Amarrian fighter, I have been in Faction Warfare for the last week. Needless to say, I am having the time of my life. I have had a few near misses, where I died when my opponent was in hull, Ganked off of the station undocks of Fweddit's home station, and gone on roams in which I have died horribly. I am currently down to about 600k, and I am down 2 Destroyers, 7 interceptors and a cruiser.
Should we in Caldari attempt to organise "Amarr Aid" and fill few of our freighter alts with abundance of hookbills, nospreys, caracal navies and of course, thrashers and deliver them to Fweddit to be used in divine cleansing of the slaves from Bleaks/Devoid?
|
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
116
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 11:56:00 -
[83] - Quote
Yuri Intaki wrote:PHPR Freighter wrote:As an Amarrian fighter, I have been in Faction Warfare for the last week. Needless to say, I am having the time of my life. I have had a few near misses, where I died when my opponent was in hull, Ganked off of the station undocks of Fweddit's home station, and gone on roams in which I have died horribly. I am currently down to about 600k, and I am down 2 Destroyers, 7 interceptors and a cruiser. Should we in Caldari attempt to organise "Amarr Aid" and fill few of our freighter alts with abundance of hookbills, nospreys, caracal navies and of course, thrashers and deliver them to Fweddit to be used in divine cleansing of the slaves from Bleaks/Devoid?
This is actually how we're funded with donations from a few very generous people
Of course when/if those stop it's off doing lvl 1 missions and working our way up but we'll have a few more SP by that point so not terrible |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2682
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:26:00 -
[84] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:In minmatar militia you can do several billions isk in a day with low skill alts, quite much isk without effort and risk. Exactly. Doing 10 FW L4 missions will net you enough LP to earn 1.5+B ISK if the LP is cashed out at T5 warzone control. Ten missions for 1.5B ISK, that's ridiculous.
Did you answer my previous question about why Faction Warfare victors being billionaires is more ridiculous than 0.0 moon-mineral cartels making trillionaires? And why the former is somehow "game-breaking" while the latter situation has been allowed to continue for half a decade?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2682
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 13:33:00 -
[85] - Quote
PHPR Freighter wrote:As an Amarrian fighter, I have been in Faction Warfare for the last week. Needless to say, I am having the time of my life. I have had a few near misses, where I died when my opponent was in hull, Ganked off of the station undocks of Fweddit's home station, and gone on roams in which I have died horribly. I am currently down to about 600k, and I am down 2 Destroyers, 7 interceptors and a cruiser.
That aside, I will admit I have debated a few times about going to minmatar and plex for a while. I only have about 47k LP and can't cash out on anything worthwhile other then ammo and boosters. I am actively trying to find 1v1 ships that can take down the vigils the ninja plexers uses, the dramials and the daredevils that everyone uses.
There has been talk about the militia on how to make things somewhat better. Currently, regardless of how many people plex, its a flat .9% increase/decrease and there is a set time for 1 person. If multiple people plex, you get a cut of the LP and the Standing, which makes it only for 1 person to plex at a time. Defensive plexing needs an increase to the % of the system control, to something like 1.5%, where as the offensive plexing needs to be increased slightly to 1%. There needs to be incentives to defensive plexing. Multiple people defensive plexing needs to bring the time down to actually encourage defensive plexing. Max would be 10/15/20 mins for plexes base, and min time would be 7.5/10/15 mins. I am just throwing random numbers out but that is the general gist of it.
I'd like to system where a particular class of ship is required to effectively plex certain levels of complex. ie frigates for minors cruisers for mediums battlecruisers for majors.
And plexing with a class below the requirement adds a time modifier ... ie plexing a major with a frigate takes 3x as long as the BC that is optimum for it.
Add in the time reset to neutral when nobody is in range of the button and I think this would help. (as well as making for some better targets in plex warfare)
I don't like your idea of multiple people getting a time bonus because too many game mechanics in eve already favour numbers over all - but I could see a boost for defensive plexing perhaps. How about you get a 1.5x decontest bonus for defensive plexing if there are no enemy pilots in system (representing the fact that its not strategically contested) ?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
PHPR Freighter
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 14:08:00 -
[86] - Quote
I see where you are coming from with the ship requirements. I think it would be an awesome idea if it is implemented. An extra 5-10 mins for 5-7500 more LP is kind of stupid. There has to be a bit more challange then that and I think the time modifiers based on the plex and the ship you are in would be do able and not a whole lot of people would complain.
Well the whole numbers thing would be extremely small. If you are offensive plexing, it would have to be 1-2 people max, where as defensive plexing it would have a limit of say 3-4.
And that is a better idea then the initial idea. No one in system and you are dplexing, you should get a bigger increase. |
Dirk Smacker
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
53
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 14:29:00 -
[87] - Quote
Yuri Intaki wrote:[quote=PHPR Freighter] Should we in Caldari attempt to organise "Amarr Aid" and fill few of our freighter alts with abundance of hookbills, nospreys, caracal navies and of course, thrashers and deliver them to Fweddit to be used in divine cleansing of the slaves from Bleaks/Devoid?
Yes, contract them to me in OMS.
But the problem isn't Fweddit. It's when Fweddit isn't on. I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
489
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 15:37:00 -
[88] - Quote
PHPR Freighter wrote: That aside, I will admit I have debated a few times about going to minmatar and plex for a while. I only have about 47k LP and can't cash out on anything worthwhile other then ammo and boosters. I am actively trying to find 1v1 ships that can take down the vigils the ninja plexers uses, the dramials and the daredevils that everyone uses..
I ask that you dont plex for minmatar or gallente. But you can and should have an alt run missions for them. Running missions for tribal liberation force is no different than running missions for boundless creation. It doesn't hurt the amarr militia efforts at all. Actually if you use it to fund your pvp amarr character it helps.
Even having an alt in minmatar militia running plexes against caldari hurts amarr (and obviously caldari).
I realize it is easier for older players to get an alt in a stealth bomber or bs to run missions. (mwd cloak trick to get your bs around low sec) But really in eve you may want a money making alt that can do something like that anyway. But once you have a mission running alt then you will have your main that can go caldari or amarr and you will have an alt that can run missions for minmatar or gallente. You will be able to cash in no matter who is winning.
PHPR Freighter wrote: There has been talk about the militia on how to make things somewhat better. Currently, regardless of how many people plex, its a flat .9% increase/decrease and there is a set time for 1 person. If multiple people plex, you get a cut of the LP and the Standing, which makes it only for 1 person to plex at a time. Defensive plexing needs an increase to the % of the system control, to something like 1.5%, where as the offensive plexing needs to be increased slightly to 1%. There needs to be incentives to defensive plexing. Multiple people defensive plexing needs to bring the time down to actually encourage defensive plexing. Max would be 10/15/20 mins for plexes base, and min time would be 7.5/10/15 mins. I am just throwing random numbers out but that is the general gist of it.
I disagree that there needs to be incentives to defensive plexing. Defensive plexing is horrible and I would rather it be removed all together than have it get rewards.
Don't defensive plex. (if you want to hold one or 2 systems thats fine to keep the minmatar from getting a medal thats fine. But really thats it. Don't defensive plex. It just give minmatar plexers isk.) Let the minmatar keep taking systems while we build the contest level of all the systems they have. Most will eventually get tired of dplexing for no gain. Yes it will take a long time but it will get us to tier 5 if we do it right.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
969
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 16:36:00 -
[89] - Quote
Yuri Intaki wrote:Should we in Caldari attempt to organise "Amarr Aid" We need a FW parody song of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EJWEXrykdQ The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Dynast
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
54
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 19:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
Seishi Maru wrote:The income from FW is NOT execuse for basically ZERO mobilization! The ammount of isk you need to be active in FW plex running is around 8-10 M isk per week. You can fill that with 1 hour of missions per month in high sec. So STOP MAKING EXCUSES! Maybe if you're running no-gun speed tank ships. If you're actually fighting regularly, you'll be losing at least a couple frigs and destroyers a week. A well-fit t1 frig such as a Merlin is 10-12 mil a pop, a well fit destroyer is 15-25mil (200mm Thrashers are a good bit cheaper that 150mm Cormorants). If you're like me and looking for the GoodFights(tm) you're looking at a couple losses a night, as the more you roll the dice the more often they come up snake eyes.
8-10M isk per week does not cover it. |
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
1667
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 22:40:00 -
[91] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Euasked wrote:Fact is, Minnie militia is loaded full of plexbears from both sides. The plexbear problem is solved if Amarr could gain control of half the Minnie/Amarr systems. That would situate both sides in the T2/T3 range, with rare forays into T4. Sort of like what the Caldari/Gallente situation is currently like. If plexbears can't buy regularly at T4/T5, they'll go find something else to do.
Why would anyone plexbear for Amarr even if there was a reset?
I need a vigil alt with about two days worth of training to solo pretty much any Amarr Plex, make billions and just biomass it once I lose interest and the standings are eternally messed up.
As Amarr, I'd probably need a bigger ship, requiring more SP, making the question if you want to mess up the standings beyond repair way more difficult, leaves me vulnerable to be caught at gatecamps or even requires *gasp* coordination. All these factors accumulate exponentionally.
The only people I can see having an interest in a reset or Systems flipping to Amarr again in a 'regular' manner would be Minmatar plexbears so they can farm offensively again. Looks like all the Incursion freeloaders went to Minmatar.
(And no - I've not been involved with either militia in three years with any alt - just thought about giving it a shot, but anticipated the current situation and abstained from it.) You know... morons. |
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
137
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 07:28:00 -
[92] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Markius TheShed wrote:You seem to have changed your mind about war since you said this Poetic Poetic Stanziel wrote: From the Jade conspiracy Blog post...............
Making wars fair is not a design consideration. Why should war be fair? In the history of human existence, when has war been fair? Oh, we have 2 to 1 advantage over you? Oh, you don't have any cavalry? Well, we'll just sit out all our horsemen and half our army, wouldn't be fair otherwise. Sorry about that. Okay, let's start the fighting. EVE is a simulator of human conflict, artificial rules to even playing fields is not EVE, that's some other game, like World of Warcraft, with their battlegrounds and arenas. Go play that if you want a semblance of fairness. And now you want to make FW fair?? Make your mind up will you. I'm not asking CCP to make the war fair ... I'm suggesting we perform a reset of our own accord, for long-term health of FW, especially in the south. Big difference between asking CCP to design fairness, or just doing something ourselves, as players, to keep CCP from butting in with their design changes down the road, if things get too out of whack.
longterm heatlh is provided by survival of the fittes t..... and biggest
.... Amar just need bored minnmatar and one LOLNULLBEAR alliance to roll over u all .... because CCP allowed this to happen ....
it is problem of CCP that they do allow small scale warfare to fade .... IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch Caldari State Capturing
167
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 10:48:00 -
[93] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:In minmatar militia you can do several billions isk in a day with low skill alts, quite much isk without effort and risk. Exactly. Doing 10 FW L4 missions will net you enough LP to earn 1.5+B ISK if the LP is cashed out at T5 warzone control. Ten missions for 1.5B ISK, that's ridiculous. Did you answer my previous question about why Faction Warfare victors being billionaires is more ridiculous than 0.0 moon-mineral cartels making trillionaires? And why the former is somehow "game-breaking" while the latter situation has been allowed to continue for half a decade?
It is not about game breaking isk, FW isk does not come from nowhere , it comes from other players.
Problem is that FW was ment to be WAR , but now it is just ISK FARM.
There is still no reason to PVP, but there is lot of reasons to farm easy isk.
We can as well end war and keep farming going on, make it even so that no one have right to kill farmers and maybe make those even invulnerable, and remove npc so those can farm with empty frigates, or maybe they should change it to be possible to use noob ship for farming. Difference now and after proposed change is marginal, no one would ever notice it. |
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
137
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 12:27:00 -
[94] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:Bad Messenger wrote:In minmatar militia you can do several billions isk in a day with low skill alts, quite much isk without effort and risk. Exactly. Doing 10 FW L4 missions will net you enough LP to earn 1.5+B ISK if the LP is cashed out at T5 warzone control. Ten missions for 1.5B ISK, that's ridiculous. Did you answer my previous question about why Faction Warfare victors being billionaires is more ridiculous than 0.0 moon-mineral cartels making trillionaires? And why the former is somehow "game-breaking" while the latter situation has been allowed to continue for half a decade? It is not about game breaking isk, FW isk does not come from nowhere , it comes from other players. Problem is that FW was ment to be WAR , but now it is just ISK FARM. There is still no reason to PVP, but there is lot of reasons to farm easy isk. We can as well end war and keep farming going on, make it even so that no one have right to kill farmers and maybe make those even invulnerable, and remove npc so those can farm with empty frigates, or maybe they should change it to be possible to use noob ship for farming. Difference now and after proposed change is marginal, no one would ever notice it.
I am quite against blue ops .... but 2 blue harvest systems seems like a good idea IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
491
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 15:12:00 -
[95] - Quote
First I am not sure the amarr plexers won't resusitate on their own. But if they are unable to resusitate themselves doing a reset will do nothing but feed the minmatar alt plexers.
If the mechanics are too lopsided ccp could consider the following that would help amarr:
1) Reduce the amount you make from missions to be on par with plexing. Right now mission running is the best isk maker. Even with no lp for defensive plexing minmatar might make enough isk overall by running missions and defensive plexing. For example if they can make 700 million isk per hour just running missions. It may be that they would only make 500 million isk per hour if they ran defensive plexes and missions. The time spent running the defensive plexing might still be justified to keep the the mission piggy bank going. As more and more people join minmatar just small percent of them occasionally running defensive plexes might be enough to preserve their isk faucet.
2) Because of what I describe above it may work if ccp made defensive plexing cost lp. So if minmatar want to defensive plex they would have to pay lp to get it to count toward decontesting a system. Thus that might push that lp scale in favor of the side that needs to win systems.
3) more drastically just remove defensive plexing altogether. Either defend the plex in pvp or you gradually lose your system.
4) remove the advantage minmatar have from rats.
5) make plexing a pvp game. Have timers count down when plexers are chased out. Notify militias when miltary complexes are attacked so they can defend them in pvp.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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David Clausewitz
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
38
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 01:08:00 -
[96] - Quote
Off topic, but I think whoever made that comic has no knowledge of Roman history.
Also, it doesn't matter how bad it gets in terms of system control, Fweddit will not be leaving Amarr. We are losing the PVE war horrendously but fortunately most of us, myself included, don't give a **** about PVE or plexing in FW. The PVP is why we're here and that war is extremely successful and target rich.
The unsung heroes of this PVE war for sov are the carebear plex farmers minnie has a surplus of that are only in it for the ISK. I would love to see an "isk destroyed" part of the faction warfare panel in-game below "ships killed". |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
796
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 02:10:00 -
[97] - Quote
well. many realised that plexing is not worth the effort. Esp defensive plexing. Minmatar have a motivation to defensive plex, for amarr its just wasted time. (several well known reasons comming here together)
Some of us reduced plexing to all-offensive (those who want small group/solo pvp in plexes) while agreed to stop taking systems. You should have noticed that some systems went vulnerable in the last few days without any group effort to shoot the hub. Additionaly several uninteresting systems just flipped to minmatar since nobody wanted to defensive plex.
a reset would change nothing. Those who where in amarr FW to make isk or to have clean killboards already left/switched sides etc. Those who stayed are there for pvp (in one form or the other), simply don't care who is winning, have less and less interest in system control and have ISK income outside FW mechanics. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
492
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 03:35:00 -
[98] - Quote
David Clausewitz wrote:Off topic, but I think whoever made that comic has no knowledge of Roman history. It was probably meant to be a metaphor for another situation though. Also, it doesn't matter how bad it gets in terms of system control, Fweddit will not be leaving Amarr. We are losing the PVE war horrendously but fortunately most of us, myself included, don't give a **** about PVE or plexing in FW. The PVP is why we're here and that war is extremely successful and target rich. The unsung heroes of this PVE war for sov are the carebear plex farmers minnie has a surplus of that are only in it for the ISK. I would love to see an "isk destroyed" part of the faction warfare panel in-game below "ships killed" to know how badly we're winning the PVP war in efficiency.
I agree on the roman history. ( I haven't specifically read about these wars but from what i do know the roman soldiers were likely greatly outnumbered and punched well above their weight.) And generallly I agree with your post until you get to isk efficeiency. That has never been my bag. Worrying about isk efficiency is a terrible way to play eve. I am more about having fun than worrying about that.
But if you are interested in isk efficiency the killboards don't keep track of the lp or the value of the lp earned from pvp. I think if you build that in you might find our isk efficency isn't so great. But that is back to your first point - are you having fun? If so who cares about killboard isk efficiency? Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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David Clausewitz
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
38
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 06:03:00 -
[99] - Quote
Cearain wrote:David Clausewitz wrote:Off topic, but I think whoever made that comic has no knowledge of Roman history. It was probably meant to be a metaphor for another situation though. Also, it doesn't matter how bad it gets in terms of system control, Fweddit will not be leaving Amarr. We are losing the PVE war horrendously but fortunately most of us, myself included, don't give a **** about PVE or plexing in FW. The PVP is why we're here and that war is extremely successful and target rich. The unsung heroes of this PVE war for sov are the carebear plex farmers minnie has a surplus of that are only in it for the ISK. I would love to see an "isk destroyed" part of the faction warfare panel in-game below "ships killed" to know how badly we're winning the PVP war in efficiency. I agree on the roman history. ( I haven't specifically read about these wars but from what i do know the roman soldiers were likely greatly outnumbered and punched well above their weight.) And generallly I agree with your post until you get to isk efficeiency. That has never been my bag. Worrying about isk efficiency is a terrible way to play eve. I am more about having fun than worrying about that. But if you are interested in isk efficiency the killboards don't keep track of the lp or the value of the lp earned from pvp. I think if you build that in you might find our isk efficency isn't so great. But that is back to your first point - are you having fun? If so who cares about killboard isk efficiency?
It's more just to refute those who seem to think that the claim "Amarr are losing" is an objectively correct statement. As far as I'm concerned, we're winning and having loads of fun while doing it. ISK efficiency isn't a perfect way to measure "winning", but how else do you measure it?
You certainly can't use simple kill:death ratios because they would be even less accurate given there would be no way to distinguish between an extremely valuable kill/death and an extremely invaluable kill/death. Trying to use warzone control as a standard as of late is a joke because it has very little to do with PVP (won't go so far as to say it has nothing to do with it because it does play a semi-important role sometimes).
Assuming both sides have an equal share of fun, the most accurate (although not perfect) mathematical way to determine who comes out on top in any given PVP engagement is isk efficiency. Regardless of how much you obsess over it or how little you care about it as a stat, you can't deny that it's the best thing we've got. Of course, some people will care a lot more than others, but anyone who says they don't care about isk efficiency at all may as well say they don't care about winning, and if you don't care about whether you win or not then you wouldn't actually be bothering with competing in the first place.
Also, on a side-note without getting into too many details, one inaccuracy is in it's portraying Caesar as a dictator while the Gauls still pose a threat. By the time Caesar had established himself as the sole authority in Rome, the Gauls had been defeated and subdued so Caesar as "emperor" would have never been worrying about the Gauls to begin with. |
Ravans
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 08:58:00 -
[100] - Quote
in a matter of weeks there will be cries of nerf amarr as fleets of geddons storm through the minmatar lines. |
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
492
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 11:17:00 -
[101] - Quote
David Clausewitz wrote:Cearain wrote: But if you are interested in isk efficiency the killboards don't keep track of the lp or the value of the lp earned from pvp. I think if you build that in you might find our isk efficency isn't so great. But that is back to your first point - are you having fun? If so who cares about killboard isk efficiency?
...... You certainly can't use simple kill:death ratios because they would be even less accurate given there would be no way to distinguish between an extremely valuable kill/death and an extremely invaluable kill/death. Trying to use warzone control as a standard as of late is a joke because it has very little to do with PVP (won't go so far as to say it has nothing to do with it because it does play a semi-important role sometimes). Assuming both sides have an equal share of fun, the most accurate (although not perfect) mathematical way to determine who comes out on top in any given PVP engagement is isk efficiency. Regardless of how much you obsess over it or how little you care about it as a stat, you can't deny that it's the best thing we've got. Of course, some people will care a lot more than others, but anyone who says they don't care about isk efficiency at all may as well say they don't care about winning, and if you don't care about whether you win or not then you wouldn't actually be bothering with competing in the first place.
.
Winning in faction war is what you make of it. If you achieving your objectives you are winning. Neither side is going to surrender so the war never really ends. Its complicated and sometimes arbitrary to say who wins in real life wars.
I think I understand the advantages and disadvantages of making your goal isk efficiency. I was never interested in it. One player may want to cling to his 500k isk rifter and only engage if he is sure he can win. I on the other hand ground isk to blow it up. I don't want to give the ships away I want to have as many good fights as I can before their gone. But I figured out ways to make isk in this game so I don't want to be tied down with those who have to scrimp and save - if that makes sense.
To the extent I have any goals I think I prefer bcs rankings. They are the only things that seem to be somewhat accurate with better pvpers tending to the top of the list. But that is a whole other story.
Anyway I was just saying that if you truly want to calculate isk efficiency you should take account the lp. Lets say the killboard says both sides blow up about 12 billion in stuff. Well both sides will get about 4 billion divided by 10,000 in lp. (I say 4 billion because insurance is deducted as well as mods that aren't blown up. its a rough number and its probably higher) The minmatar lp is worth about 8k isk per lp. (assuming tier 5) The amarr is worth about 1k isk per lp. (assuming tier 2)
So if the killboards say both blew up about 12 billion the minmatar are actually coming out ahead isk wise by 3.2 billion versus 400 million or 2.8 billion.
I guess one could argue that eventually we will hit tier 5 and so our lp could be worth more. I won't stop you from believing that because i think it will too. But it will take a while so I guess valuing our lp could be tricky. But I do think you should count that lp as going to the minmatar because that is real isk that they can fairly easilly cash out at about 8k isk per lp.
So in the near term most minmatar who are interested in isk ratios will be happy to fight the amarr even if the killboard says amarr killed 14.5 bill and minmatar only killed 12 bill. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
437
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 12:50:00 -
[102] - Quote
Ravans wrote:in a matter of weeks there will be cries of nerf amarr as fleets of geddons storm through the minmatar lines.
Welcome to the party |
Peteris G
Ophidia in herba
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 14:15:00 -
[103] - Quote
Ravans wrote:...amarr as fleets of geddons storm through the minmatar lines.
Could kind sir explain from where this information was get? |
Zarnak Wulf
The Roaches
437
|
Posted - 2012.07.14 14:31:00 -
[104] - Quote
Peteris G wrote:Ravans wrote:...amarr as fleets of geddons storm through the minmatar lines. Could kind sir explain from where this information was get?
I think his alliance and events in Delve are a big clue. |
David Clausewitz
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
39
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 00:04:00 -
[105] - Quote
Cearain wrote:David Clausewitz wrote:Cearain wrote: But if you are interested in isk efficiency the killboards don't keep track of the lp or the value of the lp earned from pvp. I think if you build that in you might find our isk efficency isn't so great. But that is back to your first point - are you having fun? If so who cares about killboard isk efficiency?
...... You certainly can't use simple kill:death ratios because they would be even less accurate given there would be no way to distinguish between an extremely valuable kill/death and an extremely invaluable kill/death. Trying to use warzone control as a standard as of late is a joke because it has very little to do with PVP (won't go so far as to say it has nothing to do with it because it does play a semi-important role sometimes). Assuming both sides have an equal share of fun, the most accurate (although not perfect) mathematical way to determine who comes out on top in any given PVP engagement is isk efficiency. Regardless of how much you obsess over it or how little you care about it as a stat, you can't deny that it's the best thing we've got. Of course, some people will care a lot more than others, but anyone who says they don't care about isk efficiency at all may as well say they don't care about winning, and if you don't care about whether you win or not then you wouldn't actually be bothering with competing in the first place.
. Anyway I was just saying that if you truly want to calculate isk efficiency you should take account the lp. Lets say the killboard says both sides blow up about 12 billion in stuff. Well both sides will get about 4 billion divided by 10,000 in lp. (I say 4 billion because insurance is deducted as well as mods that aren't blown up. its a rough number and its probably higher) The minmatar lp is worth about 8k isk per lp. (assuming tier 5) The amarr is worth about 1k isk per lp. (assuming tier 2) So if the killboards say both blew up about 12 billion the minmatar are actually coming out ahead isk wise by 3.2 billion versus 400 million or 2.8 billion. So in the near term most minmatar who are interested in isk ratios will be happy to fight the amarr even if the killboard says amarr killed 14.5 bill and minmatar only killed 12 bill.
I wouldn't take into account the different values of LP between the factions personally because that's going back to PVE concerns which are irrelevant to the actual engagement itself. The system control status is dictated primarily by PVE plex farmers, not actual PVP. The minnie LP being worth more than amarr LP in any given PVP battle is completely irrelevant and external to how well each side does within the engagement internal to itself.
The value of loot taken in any engagement isn't calculated into ISK efficiency either and at least in my experiences, Amarr hold the field a lot more often than Minmatar. I'm not rejecting that these are entirely useless considerations, but they should not be mathematically applied as if they negate ship losses suffered either. I'm concerned with what each side brings to the field in ships and which of those ships end up being destroyed by the opposing faction in any engagement as far as determining who won the actual "PVP". LP earned and wrecks looted are secondary, if not tertiary considerations.
I'd be willing to bet the disparity is much greater than the proposed guess of 2.5 billion, but who knows unless CCP actually release the data. That's just speculation from my perspective. |
Kire Suah
Shitty Gimmick Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 07:01:00 -
[106] - Quote
Peteris G wrote:Ravans wrote:...amarr as fleets of geddons storm through the minmatar lines. Could kind sir explain from where this information was get?
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Nulli_Secunda
Having played both in the amarr militia, and fought against S2N in Delve, I can safely say S2N will wipe the floor with any real attempt by the minmatar to fleet up against them. Alongside just being better players, they have good fleet comps, organization, and a solid, consistent membership.
However, I don't think current FW mechanics will allow them to retake warzone control. There are just too many minmatar plexing alts these days to get any real progress done sov-wise.
Should be fun though! |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
202
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 07:53:00 -
[107] - Quote
Kire Suah wrote:Peteris G wrote:Ravans wrote:...amarr as fleets of geddons storm through the minmatar lines. Could kind sir explain from where this information was get? http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Nulli_SecundaHaving played both in the amarr militia, and fought against S2N in Delve, I can safely say S2N will wipe the floor with any real attempt by the minmatar to fleet up against them. Alongside just being better players, they have good fleet comps, organization, and a solid, consistent membership. However, I don't think current FW mechanics will allow them to retake warzone control. There are just too many minmatar plexing alts these days to get any real progress done sov-wise. Should be fun though!
Many of the above points could be used as reasons for the Amarr to be already wining (except organisation), as you have already said in your post they do not necessarily mean warzone control will be greatly affected.
I find it hard to believe a large null sec alliance will cope with having to ship down to thrashers and orbit buttons for hours on end, just accepting the fact they are steppind down to FW would do awful things for morale. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
115
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 08:48:00 -
[108] - Quote
Faction warfare missions for the TLF send the mission runner to Minmatar held systems, avoiding much risk from opposing forces, as the opposing forces cannot dock in those systems.
TLF pilots can earn TLF lp by doing plexes in the Gallente/Caldari warzone, avoiding competition with each other, and avoiding a lot of pvp.
If those two things were changed, such that missions were only generated in Amarr held space, and only plexes in the amarr/minmatar warzone gave LP to a TLF pilot, then the mission farmers and plex farmers would be compelled to be in an area where pvp happens.
There would be blue-on-blue violence, as the farmers squabble over plexes. There would be the possibility of turkey-shoots by a competent force, engaging the mission and plex farmers. There would be the possibility of large scale battles, as TLF forces seek to gain temporary space superiority to allow their LP earners to earn LP (and therefore isk).
That situation would be attractive for entities to join the Amarr militia for the pvp. There would be much spaceship violence. It may even be glorious violence.
Because as it is, the situation where missions are in friendly held space, and plexes in a different area generate LP, acts as a substantial disincentive for a TLF person to engage in pvp. Which in turns means there's no pvp to be had shooting at mission/plex farmers.
And that has turned FW from a thing that offers lots of pvp for all skill levels, into a thing where it is for farming income, and pvp is optional. |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
203
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 09:11:00 -
[109] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:If those two things were changed, such that missions were only generated in Amarr held space, and only plexes in the amarr/minmatar warzone gave LP to a TLF pilot, then the mission farmers and plex farmers would be compelled to be in an area where pvp happens.
I can't express how much we, as minmatar want this.
The idea of having our missions confined to 5 systems, with no travel time.
You'd see alts running back and forth up the pipe collecting 10 missions an hour, while thier mains burned though the huge mission stacks in a Tier 3 BC gang.
You could be looking at in excess of 300k LP / hr PER mission collecting alt, provided the was a handful of BCs around to gank the missions down. |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
116
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Posted - 2012.07.15 10:09:00 -
[110] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:Valerie Valate wrote:If those two things were changed, such that missions were only generated in Amarr held space, and only plexes in the amarr/minmatar warzone gave LP to a TLF pilot, then the mission farmers and plex farmers would be compelled to be in an area where pvp happens. I can't express how much we, as minmatar want this. The idea of having our missions confined to 5 systems, with no travel time. You'd see alts running back and forth up the pipe collecting 10 missions an hour, while thier mains burned though the huge mission stacks in a Tier 3 BC gang. You could be looking at in excess of 300k LP / hr PER mission collecting alt, provided the was a handful of BCs around to gank the missions down.
If that was the case I'd guess the alt meta game would kick into high gear as we dropped all remaining systems leaving you none to mission/plex and then the standoff of who went broke first or had alts trying to flip systems would kick in.
Would be funny to see from both sides perspectives I'd imagine. |
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BattleStar Crusader
The Imperial Fedaykin
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 10:15:00 -
[111] - Quote
A lot to read on this thread. Can't really analyze it and get the information out regarding the situation.
I don't really care for the politics, or the whining about the other side having bigger, better, faster ships or that they have more people. If you have the will power to win fights then you will.
All I want to know is:
Are the Minmatar winning?
Is it worth staying in the Amarr Militia after so long out of the game? |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
115
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 11:04:00 -
[112] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:You'd see alts running back and forth up the pipe collecting 10 missions an hour, while thier mains burned though the huge mission stacks in a Tier 3 BC gang.
You could be looking at in excess of 300k LP / hr PER mission collecting alt, provided the was a handful of BCs around to gank the missions down.
eh, wouldn't those BCs attract the attention of hostile forces? not just opposing militia, but also non-militia ? |
Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate
138
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 11:39:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ravans wrote:in a matter of weeks there will be cries of nerf amarr as fleets of geddons storm through the minmatar lines.
yeah and FW will become nullbear playground just to poke around ....oh yeah dear CCP Ytterbut u made it IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM! |
Zarnak Wulf
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
437
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 14:25:00 -
[114] - Quote
I'm not going to get too excited until I actually see them in militia chat. Also- those plexing alts are not loyal to any side. If Amarr looks like they're turning it they would flip in a heartbeat. |
Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility
45
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 15:58:00 -
[115] - Quote
Your slaves won, so deal with it!
Just saying... |
Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility
45
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 15:59:00 -
[116] - Quote
Hidden Snake wrote:Ravans wrote:in a matter of weeks there will be cries of nerf amarr as fleets of geddons storm through the minmatar lines. yeah and FW will become nullbear playground just to poke around ....oh yeah dear CCP Ytterbut u made it
There's nothing wrong with nullbears. They come out in numbers to PVP when you need bodies.
Just saying... |
Zarnak Wulf
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
437
|
Posted - 2012.07.15 18:43:00 -
[117] - Quote
The Last Amarr |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
205
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 07:14:00 -
[118] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:You'd see alts running back and forth up the pipe collecting 10 missions an hour, while thier mains burned though the huge mission stacks in a Tier 3 BC gang.
You could be looking at in excess of 300k LP / hr PER mission collecting alt, provided the was a handful of BCs around to gank the missions down. eh, wouldn't those BCs attract the attention of hostile forces? not just opposing militia, but also non-militia ?
I doubt it would be much of an issue to be honest, and if it was more pew for us so win-win |
Amymuffmuff
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
7
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Posted - 2012.07.18 11:10:00 -
[119] - Quote
Poetic you have been with the militia for less than a couple of months i think.
Were you around much before inferno hit? I don't think so.
I appreciate your desire to make the system equal and have the amarr able to fight us to an easier extent but that doesn't mean we should just hit a reset button.
We worked our assess off to hold the space we did before patch as we know we would lose our **** as soon as it hit if not. So we pushed and pushed and pushed before patch day and help the line and since then it has been being pushed slightly further and further. If we wanted a reset we would have just gave up then and moved all our **** back to minmatar space but thats not the case.
Quite alot of entities are dug in into amarr space. Such as Iron Oxide. in arzad and Late night in huola/kourm. To have moved all our **** before the patch would have been impossible so we took it to them to prevent that from happening.
Also with regards the goons comment. They really did nothing at all to the war. They managed to make a exploit work where they could make vast amounts of isk. That isk didn't go to the rest of the militia. It also didn't have any effect on the warzone systems wise as we were the ones who took all the systems in the first place allowing them to chuck in enough LP to make the t5 store easy.
And since they have gone we have done it ourselves at least twice. All it has taken is us to decide a day to do it and get LP donating.
What we need for Amarr to start to win again is for them to actually care about plexing and the taking of systems. I imagine there are a few like it now but i imagine the most don't. And even with a reset you couldn't guarantee that they would actually fight anymore than now it would just be us having to start over and make more LP in the process.
I appreciate your comments and such but from someone who has been in the militia for a good long while i just have to say i don't agree with what you think should be the case either way.
Still. Minmatar Victor! etc etc? Iron Oxide. 2IC & Diplomat KB & TS Lead Admin Queen of the Channel Operators Amarr Surplus Equipment Manager-á |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
121
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 11:32:00 -
[120] - Quote
Amymuffmuff wrote: What we need for Amarr to start to win again is for them to actually care about plexing and the taking of systems.
I'll just link Pinky's blog |
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Amymuffmuff
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
9
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Posted - 2012.07.18 11:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
I've added a comment to the blog with my views on what was said.
Iron Oxide. 2IC & Diplomat KB & TS Lead Admin Queen of the Channel Operators Amarr Surplus Equipment Manager-á |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
492
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 14:56:00 -
[122] - Quote
Amymuffmuff wrote: Quite alot of entities are dug in into amarr space. Such as Iron Oxide. in arzad and Late night in huola/kourm. To have moved all our **** before the patch would have been impossible so we took it to them to prevent that from happening.
I will have to agree that IO did do allot of plexing before inferno. I-law was plexing in and around arzad and we were met with allot of resistance from allot of players. Yes we were also met with a few bugged plexes which was disheartening, but there were clearly allot of minmatar players plexing around that area before inferno hit. Too many for us to take and hold those systems.
So amarr had to do the "impossible" and move allot of our stuff out before the patch hit at the most critical time to run plexes. (Every pre inferno plex counted 5xs as much toward occupancy as every post inferno plex.) The general disarray the rule change on station lockouts caused the amarr, was something that has never happened due to any minmatar/player actions. Not when RKK joined minmatar and certainly the goons actions didn't even come close to the disruption that station lock out caused amarr at such a critical time.
But anyway my point is that there are allot of minmatar that want to say how they "earned" thier lp store yet they never did any plexing before inferno. It was the preinferno plexing combined with ccp changing the rules on docking that really did the amarr in. IO is sort of an exception to this rule. I do agree they did allot of plexing and they did a good job holding arzad.
Anyway I have always been against a reset. Players should play the game as best they can. I never like it when players are supposed to enter any sort of "scouts honor" agreements to make the game fun. If its simply broken when both players push the mechanics as much as they can, then ccp should fix the underlying mechanics. (not just a reset.)
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 15:46:00 -
[123] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:And why should Amarr take any system at all when plexing has yet to be fixed, incentives are out of whack (x16 difference, Trololololled by Soundwave) and they need to capture everything way deep into Heimatar+ to get highest tier or even second highest. Someone did the math a while ago: Every system taken equals some absurd number of billions for Shakor as alts farm it back again ..
Also, "lol" at return to 'good fights' .. as long as incentives are as high as they are you'd need some serious mechanics magic to make it more than FarmVilleGäó, Eve Edition. The winter patch may rejuvenate FW if CCP are willing to design it based on more than brainfarts from hung-over Devs/players .. but since it would require almost all of the Inferno changes be axed/heavily modified the chances are slim to none (would be admission of ineptitude).
Tl;dr: FW will remain an Eve version of FarmVilleGäó for the foreseeable future. Enjoy.
PS: Current state of affairs on both fronts was accurately predicted by us in the common sense/logic crowd and since we are not omniscient one can only conclude that it could have been easily avoided had CCP done their homework. PPS: Noticing that a lot/most of the people who said "OMG THIS IS AWESOME!" immediately after the patch have applied to be let back into the "Fix FW Club". Please be patient as we ramp up activity again.
"Rejuvenate" FW? Implying it is dead?? PvP kills have never been higher in FW. There is plenty going on, you don't have a clue.
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Rommell Drako
T-Cells Moar Tears
23
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Posted - 2012.07.21 21:44:00 -
[124] - Quote
I noticed how the only ones complaining about the current FW situation are the minmatar and their alts... Now why would they be so upset at winning? I thought capture of all the systems was winning... wouldnt that make sense? or are they worried about their isk faucet? for shame.... |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
319
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 22:52:00 -
[125] - Quote
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:dribble... "Rejuvenate" FW? Implying it is dead?? PvP kills have never been higher in FW. There is plenty going on, you don't have a clue. It's sucks when facts get in the way of a good rant.
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
498
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 16:05:00 -
[126] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:dribble... "Rejuvenate" FW? Implying it is dead?? PvP kills have never been higher in FW. There is plenty going on, you don't have a clue. It's sucks when facts get in the way of a good rant.
I'm betting pvp kills were higher the week before and after inferno than they were the last 2 weeks.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
327
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 16:14:00 -
[127] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:dribble... "Rejuvenate" FW? Implying it is dead?? PvP kills have never been higher in FW. There is plenty going on, you don't have a clue. It's sucks when facts get in the way of a good rant. I'm betting pvp kills were higher the week before and after inferno than they were the last 2 weeks. I'm still getting plenty of kills. Will have highest monthly total ever by the end of this month. You must be doing it wrong. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
498
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 16:17:00 -
[128] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:dribble... "Rejuvenate" FW? Implying it is dead?? PvP kills have never been higher in FW. There is plenty going on, you don't have a clue. It's sucks when facts get in the way of a good rant. I'm betting pvp kills were higher the week before and after inferno than they were the last 2 weeks. I'm still getting plenty of kills. Will have highest monthly total ever by the end of this month. You must be doing it wrong.
I might be wrong. Plus things may be different on the caldari gallente side than they are in the minmatar amarr side. Do you know of anything where we can actually check statistics on this?
The faction war tab gives kills for the current week but not the earlier ones.
Edit: and yes I might be doing it wrong too. I am running plexes in the minmatar main systems of huola kourm and dal. I might be better off sitting in a gate camp on the kamela kourm gate. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Major Killz
Chaotic Tranquility
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 19:54:00 -
[129] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:dribble... "Rejuvenate" FW? Implying it is dead?? PvP kills have never been higher in FW. There is plenty going on, you don't have a clue. It's sucks when facts get in the way of a good rant. I'm betting pvp kills were higher the week before and after inferno than they were the last 2 weeks. I'm still getting plenty of kills. Will have highest monthly total ever by the end of this month. You must be doing it wrong.
I must say. If I wasn't managing a corporation and taking week and a half off to deal with recent corporate mergers etc. I would have a load more kills. Not that I dont have alot now, but I had this amount around 1 week and 1 - 3 days into the month.
Even when im just passing threw where ever around blackrise there are fights every where. I serious, real deal crucible. P hard to avoid them. I'm looking forward to next month when I can focus alot more on pvp.
- end of transmission |
Esk Esme
Far From Sober
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 10:53:00 -
[130] - Quote
OP is a crackpot
war in eve is over space and isk resorces
when a 0.0 allaince takes space it claims the spoils
when a FW militia takes space it claims the spoils
whats the difrence ?
you have farming alts in 0.0 allainces farming for isk
you have alts in FW farming for isk
whats the difrence ?
see alot ppl crying over Fw but its no difrent to 0.0 except the player gets the cash not the select few like in 0.0
my spelling sux sue me |
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