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Olozim
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.12 10:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Olozim on 12/05/2010 10:26:01 Edited by: Olozim on 12/05/2010 10:24:36 I know there is already a ton of discussion on hybrid weapon balances, and although I do not necessarily have many complaints about blasters, I do think railguns (and consequently rail boats) need some lovin'. I also apologize if this has already been proposed, i did run a light search and didn't find anything specific to the Deimos.
Without going into too much detail, I think the 10% per HAC level to falloff range is just ridiculous. Change it to something more appropriate for it's role(s), a bonus to tracking speed like the megathron would be nice and would help it compete with the other HAC's better. Blaster-fit Deimos don't need the extra falloff, and sniper-fit Deimos get an additional 15km or so they can play with, whoop-dee-doo. I would gladly trade 15km of falloff for the ability to actually hit something as a sniper, and it would help blaster-fits in close quarters to be able to hit targets in tight orbits like you SHOULD be able to do as a blaster-boat. It doesn't even have to be a straight across 10% bonus to tracking, even scaled down to say 7.5% per level would be appropriate I think.
Zealot = good overall sniper, good DPS, good tracking, good range Cerb = good DPS (once it gets there), amazing range possibilities, selectable damage type (although Kinetic has a bonus) Muninn = alpha is amazing, selectable damage type (current) Deimos = uh.... it does everything that the above do except the DPS is crap and the target either has to be flying directly at you or be motionless? (proposed) Deimos = It may not have the best DPS or range (possibly changed with railgun buffs?), but by golly it can hit just about anything except really fast ships reliably.
Ideas, thoughts?
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2010.05.12 14:24:00 -
[2]
Yes, everyone knows the Deimost needs looking at. I like the proposed tracking boost, its true to it's the short range nature and sets it apart from the other HACs except maybe the Muninn. But then I still think it could additionally use a slight boost to survivability...
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Don Pellegrino
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.05.12 14:27:00 -
[3]
Even if blasters get fixed (more tracking, more damage), the Deimos still needs something to set it apart from the Brutix and your idea does it (I dont think it's enough, but it's a good start).
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Ne0SHNIK
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Posted - 2010.05.12 22:49:00 -
[4]
I like your idea. I think CCP wanted Deimos to be an excellent close range face melter. Just like its little brother Thorax, except much better. This is why the current bonus to falloff range is pretty useless. I think tracking or dps(rate of fire) bonus would make Deimos a nicer HAC and put it in line with the other HACs.
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2010.05.13 07:09:00 -
[5]
The diemos lacks identity and even more criminally for a HAC specialisation.
The cruiser blaster area is pretty crowded, thorax, brutix, vigilant, proteus, moa, eagle, ferox. The diemos is slotted as thorax < diemos < brutix with the vigilant being everything the diemos wanted to be but isn't. I'd tweak the diemo's role to something unique, a true knife fighter, in eve terms high speed / low siggy.
DPS isn't really a major issue - 760 odd is good for a HAC and anyway blaster dps is a multiship issue that might be fixed soon idpendant of the hull.
Slots: Change to 5/4/6 WTF is the point of that last high? we want specialised face melting dps boat.
Attributes Increase speed to 300 after skills (+40 ish?) - 2kms on mwd, a vaga is still 25% faster. Reduce siggy to 80 + 20 cpu for the extra mid. + 50 grid as its 2 low anyway
Bonus mwd - +7.5% tracking falloff - +7.5% recieved RR
So why would you take a diemos now? - gets in range fast, has the tackle to keep a target in range. Minimises damage with a low siggy and speed while still hitting well with the tracking bonus. Stays alive through boosted RR and HAC resistances.
Not at all a solo pwn boat but more then enough differences to a brutix to fly one and worth the extra 100 mil if you use it in its own specialised way.
Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
arbiter reformed
Minmatar The Waiting Room.
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Posted - 2010.05.13 08:01:00 -
[6]
Edited by: arbiter reformed on 13/05/2010 08:03:33
Originally by: Grut The diemos lacks identity and even more criminally for a HAC specialisation.
The cruiser blaster area is pretty crowded, thorax, brutix, vigilant, proteus, moa, eagle, ferox. The diemos is slotted as thorax < diemos < brutix with the vigilant being everything the diemos wanted to be but isn't. I'd tweak the diemo's role to something unique, a true knife fighter, in eve terms high speed / low siggy.
DPS isn't really a major issue - 760 odd is good for a HAC and anyway blaster dps is a multiship issue that might be fixed soon idpendant of the hull.
Slots: Change to 5/4/6 WTF is the point of that last high? we want specialised face melting dps boat.
Attributes Increase speed to 300 after skills (+40 ish?) - 2kms on mwd, a vaga is still 25% faster. Reduce siggy to 80 + 20 cpu for the extra mid. + 50 grid as its 2 low anyway
Bonus mwd - +7.5% tracking falloff - +7.5% recieved RR
So why would you take a diemos now? - gets in range fast, has the tackle to keep a target in range. Minimises damage with a low siggy and speed while still hitting well with the tracking bonus. Stays alive through boosted RR and HAC resistances.
Not at all a solo pwn boat but more then enough differences to a brutix to fly one and worth the extra 100 mil if you use it in its own specialised way.
methinks youve gone a bit overboard there lol
i say double the hac damage bonus and replace falloff with a mwd cap or sig bonus or summin
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Olozim
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.13 18:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: arbiter reformed
i say double the hac damage bonus and replace falloff with a mwd cap or sig bonus or summin
It already has a cap bonus to MWD's with the Gall. cruiser skill.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.13 18:30:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/05/2010 18:30:46 The Diemost suffers from having to fight up close where HACs typically go to die. This is where the name comes from. It also suffers from being a lolarmortank combined with short-range blasters (read: SLOOOOOOW DOOOOOWN). The shield Brutix is almost always a better choice.
Therefore: +1 gun, +2 mid, -2 low, damage/damage/falloff/10% shield HP bonus. Awesomeness ensues in 3...2...1
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.13 20:23:00 -
[9]
Tracking bonus is good. MWD speed bonus is better.
Quote: Duvolle was contracted by parties unknown to create the ultimate close-range blaster cruiser. In this their engineers and designers have failed;
Fixed it for you CCP!
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2010.05.13 20:42:00 -
[10]
Diemos
Slot layout: 5/4/6(-1 high slot, + 1 med slot) Hardpoints: 4 Turrets(-1), 0 Missles(unchanged)
Gallente Cruiser Skill: 5% to medium hybrid damage per level 7.5% to medium hybrid tracking per level(changed from 5% MWD cap bonus)
Heavy Assault Cruiser Skill: 10% to medium hybrid falloff per level 10% to medium hybrid damage per skill level(changed from 5% per skill level)
Base structure hit points: 5062(+2531)
Base powergrid: 890(-100) Base CPU: same
Base cap: 1975(+400)
Base lock range: 34km(-31km)
Base signature radius: 120m(-40m)
Just my 2 cents. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.13 21:00:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/05/2010 21:03:22 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/05/2010 21:00:18
Originally by: The Djego
10% to medium hybrid damage per skill level(changed from 5% per skill level)
Still doesn't make up for the turret loss tbh (5*1.25*1.25=7,8125, 4*1.5=7.5). I don't think the ship needs a DPS decrease.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition
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Posted - 2010.05.13 21:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 13/05/2010 21:00:18
Originally by: The Djego
10% to medium hybrid damage per skill level(changed from 5% per skill level)
Still doesn't make up for the turret loss tbh (5*1.25*1.25=7,8125, 4*1.5=7.5).
Your idea is nice, but still retain 5 turrets resulting in epic 9.375 effective turrets (20% more gun DPS for great justice). The idea of the thing is to do damage and stuff, after all. It would be such a fun ship then.
It is not a nice idea, it is a result of a mind numbing 25 pages diemos thread on SHC and took multiple days to do all the numbers and tweak it.
It is also not only a in your face HAC concept but a extreme flexible medium range support rail HAC with the EHP of a BC plus puls Zealot DPS performance(with damage drones).
I got the HAC damage bonus at 15% per level first but I think it would outdo true sniper HACs in this style. In general it is only a small DPS exchange for a lot more flexibility at any range, EHP, fixed fitting(both CPU and powergrid) and being useful in a 2. role that doesn't require dying this much. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.13 21:31:00 -
[13]
As already said, the deimos is competing with many ships in its role. The brutix does the same the deimos does, same dps and same ehp.
What the deimos should have going for it, and alrdy does, is speed/agility/locktime/sigradius. All of thosnough tho, for starters the deimos has a sig radius of 160m, the zealot for comparison 125m. A better agility would help, too, for maneuvering under hostile guns and lockspeed increase.
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Ninetails o'Cat
League of Super Evil
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Posted - 2010.05.13 21:47:00 -
[14]
How I would do it:
Swap Hybrid falloff bonus for +1km of hybrid optimal per level, applied after ammo modifications and whatnot.
That means that the Deimos can operate just outside of scram range with Null and Neutrons (getting a 10km optimal) or can avoid the tracking issues of normal blasters by being able to operate a little further out.
It also gives it a definite niche over the Brutix, and doesn't infringe on the Vagabond or Zealot, as they both still outrange it by substantial amounts, and have other advantages.
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Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.05.14 00:17:00 -
[15]
Ok I have noticed that the deimos is paper thin even with a plate on so i would suggest to swap some bonuses and add one for resist so it stops dying so fast also as it is close range and the capacitor penalty decrease for mwd doesn't do that much I would swap it for a activation cost decrease and changing the falloff bonus into a tracking one so it can actually apply the damage it can do
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to MicroWarpdrive capacitor use per 10% Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed per level
Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level 5% bonus to armor resists per level
further on i would decease the strangely high signature radius of 160mm (which is the highest on all hacs if not on all cruiser hulls) down to its t1 hulls 140mm
I would also up the scan resolution to maybe 300mm so it also gets some use in gate camps in exchange the targeting range should drop to 50km because it is supposed to use blasters close range anyway
The 6th high slot doesn't do much adding another gun mount would make it overpowered and it wouldn't even work because the model only has 5 gun mounts I wouldn't want to scrap it though cause it leaves space for some creativity
It is true that the deimos is kind of a brick especially when plated and using mwd so I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to take the mass down to 10kt and the inertia to 0.550 to make it a bit more agile and accelerate faster with the mwd
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