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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2010.05.13 11:55:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 13/05/2010 11:55:05 When i read the changelog you made for Tyranis, i cant find a single feature you took from the features and ideas forum. I read it very often and there are a couple of good ideas and a lot of these ideas are suggested very often, so there must be a lot of interest behind them, but i cant see that anyone at CCP is even interested in realizing them. There is a sticky in the forum with the best/most frequently ideas and a lot of these ideas could be implemented in less than a week with little effort (sure some need more effort and time).
So why do you have this forum? Just to let people think you do listen to the players?
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar Cat's Cradle
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Posted - 2010.05.13 12:12:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Captain Futur3 Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 13/05/2010 11:55:05 When i read the changelog you made for Tyranis, i cant find a single feature you took from the features and ideas forum. I read it very often and there are a couple of good ideas and a lot of these ideas are suggested very often, so there must be a lot of interest behind them, but i cant see that anyone at CCP is even interested in realizing them. There is a sticky in the forum with the best/most frequently ideas and a lot of these ideas could be implemented in less than a week with little effort (sure some need more effort and time).
So why do you have this forum? Just to let people think you do listen to the players?
It's there to make us feel good. Like we're part of the development.
In other words it's an illusion.So be a good boy and play along.
EDIT: There is probably so much material there you could make an entire game out of it. ___________________________________________________ CSM - Bring back Medium Shader! |
Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.05.13 12:16:00 -
[3]
It is so all the more constructive feedback on improving the game can be collated in one place: Someday CCP will return to F&I. And when they do, they will take all the ideas, and roll them into a big ball, and put them on a rocket ship, and blast them into the sun. -
DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.05.13 12:23:00 -
[4]
How far back in the F&I forum did you look? If you jump to somewhere around page 800 or 1000, you might come across the ideas that have had enough time to actually make it into the gameà ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.13 12:51:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Captain Futur3 Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 13/05/2010 11:55:05 So why do you have this forum? Just to let people think you do listen to the players?
not realy I think they just wanted to move all of the "New feature" threads off of the other forums
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Kallieah
The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.13 13:19:00 -
[6]
It's so my lovely charts that inadvertently disclose major game balance issues can be hidden away from the eyes the the bulk of the community without me feeling like I'm being actively gagged. Did you -see- where they put my Massive Fleet Warefare Improvements thread? Those diagrams were literally months of effort by countless Elysium Alliance sov war experts. . Support EVE's future: Vote Cat o'Ninetails for CSM! |
Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.13 13:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Crumplecorn It is so all the more constructive feedback on improving the game can be collated in one place: Someday CCP will return to F&I. And when they do, they will take all the ideas, and roll them into a big ball, and put them on a rocket ship, and blast them into the sun.
Im pretty sure theyve done that all ready...
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.13 13:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Crumplecorn It is so all the more constructive feedback on improving the game can be collated in one place: Someday CCP will return to F&I. And when they do, they will take all the ideas, and roll them into a big ball, and put them on a rocket ship, and blast them into the sun.
Im pretty sure theyve done that all ready...
C.
They do it periodically. ________________________
Apply | Achievements |
I'm 5particus
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Posted - 2010.05.13 14:40:00 -
[9]
Reputation, so we can vote down the trolls and vote up elites.
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Derelicht
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Posted - 2010.05.13 14:41:00 -
[10]
I've wondered the same thing for years.
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Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.13 15:01:00 -
[11]
It's a place for moderators to move ****ty whine threads so they don't clutter up general discussion completely.
Only mostly.
This is an unrelated smiley.
I have hit the five minute warning so I will now press random keys until my time is up.
g f f fuj d e e a a d f f e a f g g w l v ene pv f eenc c pr r bibi b b g wl fnf fj bb g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g ggfd wg wq cx derew asdvv edfe w sdv gg ds |
Rellik B00n
Minmatar Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2010.05.13 15:02:00 -
[12]
Councils and governments often have consultation events. Based on my life experience I can say that they are largely run in this format:
Council: we are implementing this thing so we are running a consultation.
Public: brilliant, here are some great ideas and also some issues.
Council: excellent, we have consulted you and now we are going to do exactly what we had planned before the consultation BUT we can say we asked you first.
F&I and also the CSM take the role of 'public', CCP takes the role of council.
I hold no malice toward CCP tbh they do what they do just fine and they have no remit to ask your opinion about anything.
+ LDSkill+hireLDS |
Pharago
Gallente Piratas Leprosos Guineanos CorsarioS.
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Posted - 2010.05.13 15:13:00 -
[13]
Some ideas get chosen, others do not, get over it already.
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Napro
Caldari Buccaneers of New Eden death from above..
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Posted - 2010.05.13 15:18:00 -
[14]
Maybe cause 95% of the threads in F&I are idiotic. I'm still lolling about 'Training Mode' on tranquility because theyre too lazy to login to Singularity
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Manfred Rickenbocker
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Posted - 2010.05.13 15:21:00 -
[15]
The F&I Forum feeds directly into CCPs furnace. The burning of player's ideas keeps them warm in Iceland. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Space Pinata
Amarr Discount Napkin Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.13 15:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker The F&I Forum feeds directly into CCPs furnace. The burning of player's ideas keeps them warm in Iceland.
You're thinking of 'Volcanos'. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.05.13 15:56:00 -
[17]
With what do you think Icelanders feed their volcanoes?
On another note, it was reported across various news feeds recently that the Icelandic geothermal steam generator systems were, in-part, kept running by the tears of Eve Players.
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.05.13 16:07:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
EDIT: There is probably so much material there you could make an entire game out of it.
Two or three different games actually, because these ideas usually completely contradict
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Derovius Vaden
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Posted - 2010.05.13 16:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Captain Futur3 Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 13/05/2010 11:55:05 When i read the changelog you made for Tyranis, i cant find a single feature you took from the features and ideas forum. I read it very often and there are a couple of good ideas and a lot of these ideas are suggested very often, so there must be a lot of interest behind them, but i cant see that anyone at CCP is even interested in realizing them. There is a sticky in the forum with the best/most frequently ideas and a lot of these ideas could be implemented in less than a week with little effort (sure some need more effort and time).
So why do you have this forum? Just to let people think you do listen to the players?
Its like voting, the illusion of control over your life, etc.
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Omber Zombie
Gallente Frontier Technologies
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Posted - 2010.05.13 16:58:00 -
[20]
i actually find it useful for CSM purposes. People raise issues in Assembly Hall with vague or incomplete ideas of how to fix them, I then troll F&I to find similar issue/fixes and roll them all into a neat ball to throw at CCP. Then CCP backlogs the ideas and 4 years later decides to use one of them.
Some good reading in the forum for those that have spare time ----------------------
My Blog |
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.05.13 17:24:00 -
[21]
IIRC
our new brilliant sov system came from F&I forum, along with tech 3 and wormholes.
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Ringo Jeicha
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.13 17:29:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rellik B00n Councils and governments often have consultation events. Based on my life experience I can say that they are largely run in this format:
Council: we are implementing this thing so we are running a consultation.
Public: brilliant, here are some great ideas and also some issues.
Council: excellent, we have consulted you and now we are going to do exactly what we had planned before the consultation BUT we can say we asked you first.
F&I and also the CSM take the role of 'public', CCP takes the role of council.
I hold no malice toward CCP tbh they do what they do just fine and they have no remit to ask your opinion about anything.
The pink, it BURNS!!!!!!! --- Braaaiiinnnsssssssssss |
Lord Helghast
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Posted - 2010.05.13 17:35:00 -
[23]
i still cant believe 2 f*cking releases have come out and we STILL DONT HAVE A META COLUMN IN THE DA*N ITEM WINDOW!
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War PoutNao
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Posted - 2010.05.13 17:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Captain Futur3 Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 13/05/2010 11:55:05 When i read the changelog you made for Tyranis, i cant find a single feature you took from the features and ideas forum.
You mean like letting industrialists handle more of the NPC sellable goods? Or updating stats on planets so they're more realistic? Adding something more than a -10 to +10 for standings? Mining with guns type fixes by adjusting loot and drops? Station ambient sound (yay!)? Insurance tweaks?
On another note though, this one is just weird. How the hell were they doing this?
Quote: You cannot create jobs using blueprints belonging to other members of your corporation unless it's in the corporation hanger.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.13 18:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lord Helghast i still cant believe 2 f*cking releases have come out and we STILL DONT HAVE A META COLUMN IN THE DA*N ITEM WINDOW!
iirc thats due to database limitations in how many points of data they can display. So to put it in they would have to take something else away. I think its similar to the reason we can't have different colors to show between a bpo and bpc.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
A vote for Cat will be just as effective as his voice will be for you! lol |
FlameGlow
Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.13 18:26:00 -
[26]
Doesn't it say "Featurea and Ideas Graveyard Forum"? Must be a typo
Originally by: CCP Manifest Imploding servers are not a part of our business model.
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Ryhss
Caldari The Templar Navy SRS.
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Posted - 2010.05.13 18:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Captain Futur3
So why do you have this forum? Just to let people think you do listen to the players?
*DINGDINGDINGDING* We have a winner!!
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Jurai Talar
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Posted - 2010.05.13 18:35:00 -
[28]
There was a post a while back on another forum from a CCP dev (CCP Hammer IIRC) talking about how disconnected they are from the forums. There is SO MUCH going on here everyday and 90% of it is garbage or technologically infeasible or conflicts with future game design plans. It's no wonder the devs don't bother wasting much time here.
However, in that same post, the dev said that CCP created the CSM to find the few good ideas and that the devs really do listen and work with them to make these ideas a reality. (because their bosses want to see the fruits of their investment in the CSM program)
I see post after post complaining that CCP doesn't listen to the player base but they are wrong. The truth is that CCP doesn't read the forums so if you have a good idea with lots of player support, make sure the CSM knows about it and be patient since it will probably take about 12 months before you actually see the change show up in game IF the CSM brings it up and IF the devs agree.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.05.13 19:44:00 -
[29]
We actually do read the F&I forums (and others) an awful lot and take on board good suggestions there for development. What we do not do is reply nearly as often as we would like to because ultimately time is precious for us and replying would take a lot of time. To respond specifically to the OP, the concept of dynamic insurance and removal of Tech 0 items from loot is old and spawned there to name one.
It should be noted many of the changes we have implemented were spawned from suggestions there in some way. One I always remember is the turret salvo idea which became weapon linking as you know it today in game which combined the suggestion of being able to activate multiple turrets with one button with a server side optimization we had investigated previously and were able to implement eventually.
Other suggestions large and small also came directly from there such as the addition of sell/buy order total values in the wallet, addition of standings icons on targets. Definable outcomes from invention where multiple ships were possible, combat log in character sheets, duration timers on modules to name a few.
There are things to always be mindful of such as the lead time from a suggestion becoming reality can be usually measured in years so it's easy to forget where the idea began as its buried at page 785 on the F&I forum today but it was there where the idea was taken and adapted to suit our desires and goals and made its way down our development pipeline to one day become reality.
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2010.05.13 20:00:00 -
[30]
I do sure hope you question the situation that it could take 'years' for a development cycle to complete. I mean, seriously, years? I though the scrum system was for agile development?
There really is no excuse ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
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Waxau
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.05.13 20:15:00 -
[31]
Fuel bays
Many of us mentioned and suggested such ideas, and they eventually made it into the game. CCP also went a step further and added ore bays with the same concept.
Keep in mind, not all suggestions are feasible, nor balanced. Eg. Making a deathstar ship might seem fun and 'the next step after titans'. Great. But um...Balanced?
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Jurai Talar
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Posted - 2010.05.13 21:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Waxau Fuel bays
Many of us mentioned and suggested such ideas, and they eventually made it into the game. CCP also went a step further and added ore bays with the same concept.
Keep in mind, not all suggestions are feasible, nor balanced. Eg. Making a deathstar ship might seem fun and 'the next step after titans'. Great. But um...Balanced?
Good points and I would also add that many player suggestions may conflict or be redundant with a new feature/improvement/fix that CCP has planned for one of the next expansions.
Also, I imagine that many ideas are not currently feasible due to technological limitations or the "fix" would create bigger problems or would require obscene man-hours for a relatively small issue.
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Jurai Talar
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Posted - 2010.05.13 21:40:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane I do sure hope you question the situation that it could take 'years' for a development cycle to complete. I mean, seriously, years? I though the scrum system was for agile development?
There really is no excuse ...
Long developement cycles are normal when you have a project as large/complex/delicate/unique as EVE Online controlled by a company that genuinly cares about it's product and insists on constant/rapid expansion (twice every year is VERY fast for an MMO). You would be amazed at the number of steps, people, and man-hours required for even small changes.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.13 21:46:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Captain Futur3 So why do you have this forum? Just to let people think you do listen to the players?
So we have one subforum where stupid/idiotic/utterly useless/braindead/etcetera crap goes into.
No, seriously, 99% of the stuff in features and ideas forum are incredibly and utterly idiotic that the only valid response would be a picard double facepalm picture.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Whattis
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Posted - 2010.05.13 21:48:00 -
[35]
Quote: a lot of these ideas could be implemented in less than a week with little effort
Every single post of this nature comes down to this. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Quote:
So why do you have this forum? Just to let people think you do listen to the players?
Probably. Most of you aren't worth listening to in the first place, and there needs to be an outlet for Best Buy cashier #83447 and his tier 3 frigate ideas.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.13 22:01:00 -
[36]
Its also a case where some things can be obvious to both sides
I recall seeing an idea to add in systems to be exlpored at the "Edges" of known space that sounded a lot like what Wspace end up becomeing, and adding bpos to make the other POS fuel and POS structures has been brought up more times than im sure even the developers will want to admit to.
to be blunt a lot of the ideas are redundant (anti Frigat corvet, its called a destroyer) Or is actualy something thats on the list of things to do but have techical issues (have regional roid belts spawn in mission space) or is actualy on there "to do" wish list Others would take up a lot of resources to create a nitch product (Destroyer variants sutch as missleboats, Carrier , "Fast transport" and so on) that would be kind of hard to balance Vs the current Destroyer with its 8 highslots
(dont get me wrong, I would love to see Destroyer variants! Im just more realistic than you lot)
that and lets be fair, they cant posibly keep up with the rest of us, so they have to do what is most ineresting
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.05.13 22:29:00 -
[37]
One thing for sure, when there were great debates over the Nano nerf issues, with at least 2 40+ page threads and countless smaller threads. A lot of ideas were exchanged. Yet when CCP got around to it, they totally ignored all the ideas and went with something completely unheard of.
They made the game more boring and less diverse as a result.
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2010.05.13 23:37:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 13/05/2010 23:38:05
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Captain Futur3 So why do you have this forum? Just to let people think you do listen to the players?
So we have one subforum where stupid/idiotic/utterly useless/braindead/etcetera crap goes into.
No, seriously, 99% of the stuff in features and ideas forum are incredibly and utterly idiotic that the only valid response would be a picard double facepalm picture.
Sorry when i disagree with you. Have you read the forums frequently? I doubt so. There are a lot of intelligent and creative people in this forum, more intelligent than the whiners in the general discussion forum because the people over there do think about improving stuff instead of just whine here and there.
I have read threads which have very good sketches of how to realize their stuff and most of the ideas are planned more than just "oh i want bigger guns". Sure there are stupid ideas too, but i would say that >25% of the ideas are good. Sure not all of these good ideas are realisable or balanceable in an acceptable time frame, but saying that 99% of the ideas are stupid shows me that you dont know about what you are speaking.
Also a lot of CCPs "features" are not better than the common idea made in that forum. Just have a look at how missiles come out of the center of a ship, how clipping of structures work, how boring missions are and so on. Really, more than 50% of the ideas there are at CCPs feature level.
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2010.05.14 01:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane I though the scrum system was for agile development?
At the risk of starting to sound like one of the bitter old cranky veterans, it's my impression that the scrum system has dramatically slowed down all of the small and incremental improvements that aren't tied into one of the major expansions. Stuff like the long-overdue rockets fix that has been one "incremental" patch away through several major expansion cycles now ... even though it might be as easy as a few hours of development work, it can't happen because it isn't in the critical path for new features, and scrum is all about (apparently) devoting every available resource to the items on the critical path. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
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Posted - 2010.05.14 02:30:00 -
[40]
Although strangely that didn't stop them deciding to spend time realigning the distance column on the Overview, although they apparently didn't think it was important enough to spend any time examining the issue of making the Overview actually work properly.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.05.14 02:54:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/05/2010 02:54:51
Originally by: Captain Futur3 I have read threads which have very good sketches of how to realize their stuff and most of the ideas are planned more than just "oh i want bigger guns".
I think you just don't understand the game and therefore think idiotic ideas are good ideas.
Just the top page...
Thread 1: "more cheap useful non-BS ships", OP is asking for, amongst other things, T1 frigates with capital guns and radiates blissful ignorance.
Thread 2: "nerf macro mining", OP wants NPCs to randomly cyno in belts and gank miners
Thread 3: "make my spaceship behave like a spaceship" , OP wants more realistic space flight (gamebreaking) or at least graphics which look like more realistic space flight (what's the point).
Thread 4: "Ninja ship class", semi-troll
Thread 5: "Faction carriers", OP wants faction carriers (OK, its nice to want stuff)
Thread 6: "fixes you'd like to see before 2011, OP is asking people to list what they'd like to see and tldr
Thread 7: "remove mwd-cloak trick", OP is a whiny gatecamper beating a horse so dead, there is merely a discoloration in the ground where the dead horse used to be
Thread 8: "complicate t1 production", OP is asking for more complicated T1 production. amongst other things, t1 ships should be produced at pos only.
Thread 9: "PI expanded to its full potential", OP has some suggestions on what could expand PI, which, adittedly, really really fails to live up to CCP hype
Thread 10: "Stopping suicide gankers", OP is a whiner who got ganked and it's game mechanics which are to blame somehow
Thread 11: "smart agents", or read, you can train your agent to give you only the awesome missions because as we all know, missions need more profit
Thread 12: "low sec population/jump freighter", OP is asking for making JFs be able to jump into highsec which would lead to lowsec trade hubs and such shennigans, you know.
Thread 13: The OP wants for his alliance to quit spamming his mailbox.
One of the more humorous ones lately has been "make MWD a module which also teleports you on people's head because that fixes blasters. and is really awesome balance".
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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