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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Arimathea Anthalas
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.14 02:32:00 -
[1]
CCP:
Chronotis said in late 2009, regarding AF afterburner bonuses:
it has been delayed to post-dominion as we were prioritized onto other things and could not complete the full changes including rockets and the like and we did not want to deploy it without the full set of changes.
-- Assuming Tyrannis goes as scheduled, we will have Planetary Interaction, a new Scorpion model, and some bug fixes. I'm pleased to see some significant bug fixes to Sovereignty and other areas but to be honest Tyrannis is going to prove perhaps the most underwhelming expansion ever to hit EVE, and even if you were targeting your empire population for this release, I would be underwhelmed (there have been a surfeit of wonderful ideas for science/exploration related ships, module changes, and skill changes posted by your player base, but there has been absolutely nothing mentioned or seen on sisi related to this.)
There were several other changes that were mentioned (by CCP employees) as being "post-Dominion" or Dominion 1.1 or ...
Can we get an update on the (other) promises you have not yet kept?
Specifically, i'd like to hear about T3 covert cyno changes/fixes, the assault frigate bonus, rocket fixes if any.
I'd love to hear about any on-the-board Gallente fixes if any, one of the most commonly underrated races; its ships are falling far behind in combat performance compared to some of the other races, and several things are fundamentally broken.
The AF change, in specific, was announced in October 2009: that is almost nine months ago now and I haven't seen much since then on it.
Would you be willing to provide some commentary?
Thanks. AA
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.14 02:38:00 -
[2]
How about a 'hotfix' patch as soon as the stated stuff is ready to deploy after tyrannis? No need to wait for the next official expansion as that will mostly be incarna related and we certainly don't want these fixes delayed any longer that humanly possible. Frig roams are gaining popularity and being able to justify taking any other af past the jag and sometimes the wolf would be a huge plus to many a pod pilots happy factor.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
A vote for Cat will be just as effective as his voice will be for you! lol |
Namira Sable
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Posted - 2010.05.14 02:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Namira Sable on 14/05/2010 02:56:24 More underwhelming than Quantum Rise's marketplaces?
Edit: On further inspection, yes, yes it is: QR patch notes
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Arimathea Anthalas
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.14 04:25:00 -
[4]
QR brought some amazing things: Orca, Weapon Grouping, speed rebalancing, alchemy, significant Marauder, blockade runner, and blackops changes.
All of these had a defining, massive effect on the game.
PI will have a minor impact on the economy.
AF changes will definitely have an impact. In general, I am supportive of things that add capability or options to ships, and not supportive of things that remove capability or options to ships.
T3 capabilities are in some cases overwhelming and in some cases underwhelming (look at legion/proteus vs tengu) but I haven't seen a single effective argument as to why this T3 covops cyno thing shouldn't see some work. CCP says that it's because the code for T3 ship subsystems doesn't support the singling out of modules, but I don't really buy that with the wide variety of modules that can only be fitted on certain classes of ships, and I think any scrum team worth their salt would have that story beaten out in a day or two.
I shouldn't need to mention how Gallente are performing (rails, blasters, and some Gallente ships - the Eos most notably, but the list isn't short) need a hard look.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.05.14 18:31:00 -
[5]
IMO we have not really broken any promise as when we state the issue is deferred, its deferred with no set new release window (this is generally always the case). The patch and release schedule is determined by many factors, however we can see why you might infer 'post-dominion' as 'immediately following dominion' and no matter how many disclaimers we add to our posts, they never seem to be enough. It does suck that we have not been able to slot the assault frigate and rocket reviews into Tyrannis and that those of you eagerly awaiting it will need to wait longer but such as the limitation of pipeline bandwidth.
Historically, we tend to do most of our game balancing work during the summer generally as things are quieter then for the teams, especially design. Internally we have done some work on assault frigates and rockets with discussion on EAF and Black ops or tech II ammo closely following it to give an indicator of our balancing backlog.
We can never promise at such an early stage when any change will arrive on tranquility but we are aware of the issues and making progress. As soon as the dust settles from Tyrannis we will look to give you an updated status on the many issues we are looking into and where they stand.
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.14 18:57:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Zeke Mobius on 14/05/2010 19:04:07 Edited by: Zeke Mobius on 14/05/2010 18:58:52
Originally by: CCP Chronotis We can never promise at such an early stage...
I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
**edit
its like every 6 months instead of an expansion i get a giant letdown because stuff that needs obvious fixing doesn't even get thought about.
**even more edit
af bonus
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Jurai Talar
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Posted - 2010.05.14 19:11:00 -
[7]
It seems like the devs look at these bugs/imbalances/problems in a different way than the playerbase.
For most players, there are a handfull of issues that each of them desperately want addressed and they are minor things (personally, I want my Domi to have turrets and thrusters again) so it's seems odd that they can't be tossed in with an expansion.
However, the devs take all these little problems and file them away with a big group of similar issues. Maybe the problems with rockets gets filed into "weapon rebalancing" which it a large project. Thus, instead of a quick rocket fix being thrown in as a side note to an expansion, it has to wait until the "weapon rebalancing" expansion.
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Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.05.14 19:36:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 14/05/2010 19:36:13 From the look of things, the past three expansions I have seen in my EVE lifetime have each brought a whole new major mechanic: Apocrypha: probing, wormholes, TIII Dominion: reworked sov, system upgrades Tyrannis: planetville
I am guessing that a lot of developer time is spent on designing these things, and so less time is left for the fixes/improvements. Yes, I know that graphics designers can't fix lag and network engineers can't balance ships. But every profession is needed to produce a new game system such as those stated above. I think that most of the community as a whole would be happy if, for one expansion, there would be less new mechanics (do not confuse with less new content!), but the expansion was focuseed on polishing the old things and fixing well-known issues.
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Jurai Talar
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Posted - 2010.05.14 19:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash Edited by: Abdiel Kavash on 14/05/2010 19:36:13 From the look of things, the past three expansions I have seen in my EVE lifetime have each brought a whole new major mechanic: Apocrypha: probing, wormholes, TIII Dominion: reworked sov, system upgrades Tyrannis: planetville
I am guessing that a lot of developer time is spent on designing these things, and so less time is left for the fixes/improvements. Yes, I know that graphics designers can't fix lag and network engineers can't balance ships. But every profession is needed to produce a new game system such as those stated above. I think that most of the community as a whole would be happy if, for one expansion, there would be less new mechanics (do not confuse with less new content!), but the expansion was focuseed on polishing the old things and fixing well-known issues.
I thought CCP was alternating between new content and revisiting old content with each expansion.
Apocrypha: New Content Dominion: Rework Old Content Tyrannis: New Content ????????: Rework Old Content Incarna: New Content
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Monkey M3n
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.14 20:25:00 -
[10]
Hello, I'd like to walk in a station
Thank you
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.05.14 20:34:00 -
[11]
That's not how I remember the AF AB boost thread. I remember CCP scrapping the AB changes, not promising to implement them.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Thanks folks for the feedback!
We have got the message from this individual change that low sec/faction warfare pvp'ers feel it will be either overpowered or not good enough and some one vs one encounters on sisi showed some interesting results which varied between the ships.
For now, thanks for the feedback on this particular change and the other suggestions which have been made thus far. We'll post again with the next iteration of the changes when they are ready for feedback soon!
They tried the AF AB boost, it was OP so AFs have to go to the back of the line until something new is figured out. - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Arimathea Anthalas
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.14 20:39:00 -
[12]
Chronotis,
While I respect your comments and for the most part see your point, I think this is a philosophical difference. I think we can both concur the player base never expects CCP to get it right "the first time".
In particular, your comments that "we didn't mean post-Dominion to be post-Dominion, we meant it to be some "indefinite point" in the future" are not what I was expecting to hear and are pretty disappointing. Part of the playerbase's fractured trust in CCP relates very carefully to promises (definite or perceived) and the lack of them being followed up. As zero comments were made between then and now, I think you can understand the elements of frustration (especially as Tyrannis gets closer and players kept wondering "is this all?") Development is hard and nobody expects you to commit to a specific date, I think we do expect some rough timeframe. The limited information coming out of CCP, even with the increased emphasis on CSM, doesn't make things any easier.
The assault frigate changes were widely lauded as a good thing and a smaller group were hypercritical of them, and they "worked". It can't be hard to simply add a bonus to a ship. I think CCP has a philosophical bias towards wanting to get it all right the first time and working hard on balancing everything at once. That is a poor model for a game as dynamic as EVE and I think while the disagreements would be more vocal, we would be better equipped to see many minor adjustments over time than larger adjustments all at once. That is to say that if you feel that you can't make these changes (and remember, they were "in" Dominion and later pulled out), make small incremental changes over time with a goal of at least making the ships "more flyable" in the intermediate time. These changes can be done between major expansion cycles without too much work on anyone's part, and by making them incremental (2-5% instead of 15%) we can see their effect on play over a longer period of time rather than seeing a huge set of changes affect gameplay profoundly.
Just my 0.02c
AA
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.05.14 21:07:00 -
[13]
Plus points for answering Negative points for SoonÖ being part of the official development plan
Verdict: At least you answered -
DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ |
Elgaris Dukor
Caldari Femti Runa Eru ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.14 21:15:00 -
[14]
Hello CCP,
how about an expansion that does not implement something completely new but expands already existing features?
You once introduced faction warefare but after a few fixes nothing new came. FW is basically the same as when it started. Why didnt you put your engery in this feature instaed of abandoning it?
With Apocrypha you introduced wormholes and T3. After some fixes and a 4th subsystem nothing new came. There are 2500 solar systems that exists only to gather resources for one ship class. It looked so promissing in the beginning and we hoped for a complete industry evolving around wormholes but you abandond it. Why dont you put your energy into T3 and wormholes instead of developing something new again that is only 50% complete.
With Dominion you revamped the complete sov system. That was great. People can now upgrade systems. Why didnt you add more features to that part of the game? There were so many good ideas from players and yourself too.
Im actually a bit upset. You did throw in a couple of cool new features into the game but you abandon it shortly after introduction in order to free developer resources for the next thing to implement. Instead of more T3, wormhole or sov features we get planetary interaction which is nowhere near finished (acourding to the state of it on sisi). You implent more and more stuff leaving more and more open issues you want to "look into".
I really hope that you will change your policies on that in the future. Elgaris.
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fairimear
Gallente Esto Perpetua BiffCo.
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Posted - 2010.05.14 21:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Elgaris Dukor Hello CCP,
how about an expansion that does not implement something completely new but expands already existing features?
You once introduced faction warefare but after a few fixes nothing new came. FW is basically the same as when it started. Why didnt you put your engery in this feature instaed of abandoning it?
With Apocrypha you introduced wormholes and T3. After some fixes and a 4th subsystem nothing new came. There are 2500 solar systems that exists only to gather resources for one ship class. It looked so promissing in the beginning and we hoped for a complete industry evolving around wormholes but you abandond it. Why dont you put your energy into T3 and wormholes instead of developing something new again that is only 50% complete.
With Dominion you revamped the complete sov system. That was great. People can now upgrade systems. Why didnt you add more features to that part of the game? There were so many good ideas from players and yourself too.
Im actually a bit upset. You did throw in a couple of cool new features into the game but you abandon it shortly after introduction in order to free developer resources for the next thing to implement. Instead of more T3, wormhole or sov features we get planetary interaction which is nowhere near finished (acourding to the state of it on sisi). You implent more and more stuff leaving more and more open issues you want to "look into".
I really hope that you will change your policies on that in the future. Elgaris.
This. on a few other note when can we expect to see a improvment to npc as mentioned since captials got added basicaly. Can we please have some npc that actually make a effort to defened their space. Like maybe now and then a second spawn on top the one you find in a belt. NPC officers in varied ships from t2 bc to carriers. Npc that seige your pos then come back to finish it
Bringing a type of class to PL. |
Jurai Talar
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Posted - 2010.05.14 22:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Elgaris Dukor how about an expansion that does not implement something completely new but expands already existing features?
CCP does expand existing features as you acknowledge with your Sov mechanics example. The issue is that CCP never focuses on the same thing two times in a row.
If EVE was a house that CCP was building, they'd work on the foundation of the front wall for a while, then go work on the foundation for the back wall then the foundation for some interior walls etc etc. Eventually they would move on to framing, then dry walling etc.
You are suggesting that they finish one wall completely (foundation, framing, drywall, paint) before moving on to another wall. The problem with this is that the finished wall with have to be taken apart to fit with the other walls once they start coming together.
CCP looks at EVE with VERY long-term eyes.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.05.14 22:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jurai Talar
You are suggesting that they finish one wall completely (foundation, framing, drywall, paint) before moving on to another wall. The problem with this is that the finished wall with have to be taken apart to fit with the other walls once they start coming together.
If anything at all this just shows that the "building a house" metaphor is not very suitable for making software.
A large collection of unfinished (and thus sometimes poorly working) features is usually not more and not better than a solid, smaller core of well working features.
Everything else is like saying "Hey, we have no paint at the walls but instead we managed to have this nice pool without water and that great TV that only needs someone to hook it up to the wall socket once those are installed..."
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Aerilis
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.14 22:34:00 -
[18]
While we have a dev here, can I get an official response as to your position on the Drake?
Is it "working as intended" or is it "being reviewed"?
Just kinda ridiculous that it's better than a Nighthawk...
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Lord FunkyMunky
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Posted - 2010.05.14 22:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis As soon as the dust settles from Tyrannis we will look to give you an updated status on the many issues we are looking into and where they stand.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
THIS THIS THIS THIS
Chronotis, this is what CCP seems to be droping the ball at, people dont want incarna right now, they dont demand AF fixes in tyrannis, what we really need is timelines, that mythical "list" of priorities that CCP says they are working on, you know the one that many things the CSM say we want implemented gets put at the bottom because theirs a backlog.
How about a devblog dedicated to STATUS UPDATE, containing a long list of everything thats outstanding and planned, and the goal and if theirs any work into it yet i mean CCP has been trying to be more transparent but things like progress or goals on when to have incarna ready, are all things we would love to just HEAR ABOUT, but too many things go completely silent are never heard about again.
A State of the Game devblog every month or 2 that just states general progress, and updates on the different items so that the player base knows that things are being worked on and progress in different areas are progressing... im not talking NDA breaking kinda stuff, but come on we've seen videos of incarna how about a leak of a hallway picture or video of walking around or something, how about just throwing ideas about the AF issues around in a devblog to develop conversation with the player base about ideas the devs have for the future releases.
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.05.14 23:53:00 -
[20]
Quote: How about a devblog dedicated to STATUS UPDATE, containing a long list of everything thats outstanding and planned, and the goal and if theirs any work into it yet i mean CCP has been trying to be more transparent but things like progress or goals on when to have incarna ready, are all things we would love to just HEAR ABOUT, but too many things go completely silent are never heard about again.
This may not be a good idea, because such a list would be a complete disappointment to most hardcore EVE supporters. CCP may know this and would avoid such bad PR. Better to be naively hopeful than to have your hopes shattered.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:24:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Zeba on 15/05/2010 01:24:53
Originally by: CCP 'Heavy Weapons' Chronotis
Cry some moar eh? Ty for the sympathy..
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
A vote for Cat will be just as effective as his voice will be for you! lol |
EyeCeeYou
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Posted - 2010.05.15 05:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis .. assault frigates ... rockets ... EAF ... Black ops ... tech II ammo
Good stuff. Can't wait to see these, esp. AFs, rockets and EAFs.
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debbie harrio
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Posted - 2010.05.15 06:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: EyeCeeYou
Good stuff. Can't wait to see these, esp. AFs, rockets and EAFs.
And Black op's
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Th0rG0d
Omnimodus Operandi
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Posted - 2010.05.15 07:29:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis ....suck that we have not been able to slot the assault frigate and rocket reviews into Tyrannis and that those of you eagerly awaiting it will need to wait longer but such as the limitation of pipeline bandwidth.....
I think I've found the problem!
You just need to upgrade your route
Adrift in New Eden |
SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.05.15 07:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis ....suck that we have not been able to slot the assault frigate and rocket reviews into Tyrannis and that those of you eagerly awaiting it will need to wait longer but such as the limitation of pipeline bandwidth.....
CCP has Microsoft Batch Patching Syndrome. Famous for causing critical problems to go unfixed for months. C/D? __________________ Link has been removed.Applebabe (did you NEED to remove the signature separator line as well...? )
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.15 07:58:00 -
[26]
no surprises here, ccp development speeds these days are slowing very rapidly , either lost staff or earnng less so less workers Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Arimathea Anthalas
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.17 01:28:00 -
[27]
Bumping for more discussion
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar The Waiting Room.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 01:33:00 -
[28]
Edited by: arbiter reformed on 17/05/2010 01:34:21
Originally by: Zeke Mobius Edited by: Zeke Mobius on 14/05/2010 19:04:07 Edited by: Zeke Mobius on 14/05/2010 18:58:52
Originally by: CCP Chronotis We can never promise at such an early stage...
I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
**edit
its like every 6 months instead of an expansion i get a giant letdown because stuff that needs obvious fixing doesn't even get thought about.
**even more edit
af bonus
as if the catholic church care about science, they are far to busy ****ing children # oh yeh boost rokets ffs we dont want half arsed pi anyway
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Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.17 03:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Arimathea Anthalas Chronotis, In particular, your comments that "we didn't mean post-Dominion to be post-Dominion, we meant it to be some "indefinite point" in the future" are not what I was expecting to hear and are pretty disappointing.
The fact that you hear something different then what they say is not CCP's fault. "Post-Dominion" means after Dominion. It could be the next patch, expansion, year or a few years down the road. They all fall under the "post" prefix. You wanted them to say, "next expansion" so that is what you heard.
Originally by: Jurai Talar
CCP looks at EVE with VERY long-term eyes.
This is the explanation behind Soon(tm).
T3 is not incomplete. It is just not finished.... yet. Of course it never will be. Eve is an evolving Universe. There will never bee an Eve II. Eve will expand and morph itself over time and will become an "Eve II" though the process. Rockets and AF's are in need of a fixin' and CCP knows this. Someday they will be dealt with. Today is not that day. C'est la vie. My CSM Election Announcement
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.05.17 03:38:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis IMO we have not really broken any promise as when we state the issue is deferred, its deferred with no set new release window (this is generally always the case). The patch and release schedule is determined by many factors, however we can see why you might infer 'post-dominion' as 'immediately following dominion' and no matter how many disclaimers we add to our posts, they never seem to be enough. It does suck that we have not been able to slot the assault frigate and rocket reviews into Tyrannis and that those of you eagerly awaiting it will need to wait longer but such as the limitation of pipeline bandwidth.
Historically, we tend to do most of our game balancing work during the summer generally as things are quieter then for the teams, especially design. Internally we have done some work on assault frigates and rockets with discussion on EAF and Black ops or tech II ammo closely following it to give an indicator of our balancing backlog.
We can never promise at such an early stage when any change will arrive on tranquility but we are aware of the issues and making progress. As soon as the dust settles from Tyrannis we will look to give you an updated status on the many issues we are looking into and where they stand.
You should be embarrassed to say that stuff. No one believes you at this point - dont you realize?
My guess is youll be caught up with PI/Dust balancing for 2 years then youll move on to ambulation(fashion design in space) and after that youll just say you changed your mind assult frigs dont matter anymore.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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S'qarpium D'igil
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Posted - 2010.05.17 03:53:00 -
[31]
Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 17/05/2010 04:10:52 CCP just does not realize that what the players want most is a STABLE and BALANCED running game client.
Dear CCP, please understand that we DO NOT CARE if PI is released tomorrow or two years from now... the same goes for Incarna. But please, CCP, what we do care about is that you simply address the issues with your current product.
Please stop inventing newer and bigger pipe-dream features that you won't give yourself enough time to execute properly. Please just fix what is already there... I can't honestly believe that there isn't something to be fixed or reviewed in the current game client that will keep all of your devs busy. UI, rebalancing, graphics enhancements, stability issues, net code (lag), there really is something for everyone.
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 06:15:00 -
[32]
Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 17/05/2010 04:10:52 CCP just does not realize that what the players want most is a STABLE and BALANCED running game client.
Dear CCP, please understand that we DO NOT CARE if PI is released tomorrow or two years from now... the same goes for Incarna. But please, CCP, what we do care about is that you simply address the issues with your current product.
Please stop inventing newer and bigger pipe-dream features that you won't give yourself enough time to execute properly. Please just fix what is already there... I can't honestly believe that there isn't something to be fixed or reviewed in the current game client that will keep all of your devs busy. UI, rebalancing, graphics enhancements, stability issues, net code (lag), there really is something for everyone.
CCP has been running a succesful MMO, with a continously expanding player base for the past 7 years, and been developing said game the past 10 years. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. Most of the time anyway. ;-)
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.05.17 06:20:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 17/05/2010 06:20:20
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 17/05/2010 04:10:52 CCP just does not realize that what the players want most is a STABLE and BALANCED running game client.
Dear CCP, please understand that we DO NOT CARE if PI is released tomorrow or two years from now... the same goes for Incarna. But please, CCP, what we do care about is that you simply address the issues with your current product.
Please stop inventing newer and bigger pipe-dream features that you won't give yourself enough time to execute properly. Please just fix what is already there... I can't honestly believe that there isn't something to be fixed or reviewed in the current game client that will keep all of your devs busy. UI, rebalancing, graphics enhancements, stability issues, net code (lag), there really is something for everyone.
CCP has been running a succesful MMO, with a continously expanding player base for the past 7 years, and been developing said game the past 10 years. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. Most of the time anyway. ;-)
"good" is the enemy of "great"
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necronarcosis
Eggz Enterprises Imajiaca
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Posted - 2010.05.17 10:18:00 -
[34]
Edited by: necronarcosis on 17/05/2010 10:18:55
Originally by: CCP Chronotis IMO we have not really broken any promise as when we state the issue is deferred, its deferred with no set new release window (this is generally always the case). The patch and release schedule is determined by many factors, however we can see why you might infer 'post-dominion' as 'immediately following dominion' and no matter how many disclaimers we add to our posts, they never seem to be enough. It does suck that we have not been able to slot the assault frigate and rocket reviews into Tyrannis and that those of you eagerly awaiting it will need to wait longer but such as the limitation of pipeline bandwidth.
Historically, we tend to do most of our game balancing work during the summer generally as things are quieter then for the teams, especially design. Internally we have done some work on assault frigates and rockets with discussion on EAF and Black ops or tech II ammo closely following it to give an indicator of our balancing backlog.
We can never promise at such an early stage when any change will arrive on tranquility but we are aware of the issues and making progress. As soon as the dust settles from Tyrannis we will look to give you an updated status on the many issues we are looking into and where they stand.
then do yourself's a favor quit announcing things grandioso to get people intrested then putting them on the back burner, you look more like an old labour govenment every day. eh? |
S'qarpium D'igil
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Posted - 2010.05.17 16:48:00 -
[35]
Bumping this thread for great justice.
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Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.17 18:08:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Xtover on 17/05/2010 18:09:19
Originally by: CCP Chronotis we can see why you might infer 'post-dominion' as 'immediately following dominion' and no matter how many disclaimers we add to our posts, they never seem to be enough.
Assault Frigates were promised IN dominion, and then Dominion 1.1 specifically.
Eve search it yourselves, devs.
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Cordin Hamir
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 18:09:00 -
[37]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis IMO we have not really broken any promise as when we state the issue is deferred, its deferred with no set new release window (this is generally always the case). The patch and release schedule is determined by many factors, however we can see why you might infer 'post-dominion' as 'immediately following dominion' and no matter how many disclaimers we add to our posts, they never seem to be enough. It does suck that we have not been able to slot the assault frigate and rocket reviews into Tyrannis and that those of you eagerly awaiting it will need to wait longer but such as the limitation of pipeline bandwidth.
To say the least this is a little disingenious, at work if I tell a customer that something will be ready after this week or at home if I tell my children they will get a sweet after lunch then in both cases the normal assumption is sometime fairly soon after the stated event (not 6 months/a year/never as is the case here). The very strong implication previously was that these fixes would be in very soon after Dominion - not at some very distant and indeterminate time.
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Fenderson
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 19:00:00 -
[38]
if you really mean that a feature is delayed indefinitely, then why not just say "this feature is delayed indefinitely" rather than "post-dominion" or whatever.
the only reason to chose the latter is if you are trying to imply, whether honestly or dishonestly, that it will be *soon* after dominion. ----
this is my signature. |
Captain Mastiff
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 19:10:00 -
[39]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Historically, we never tend to do most of our game balancing
Corrected? Yes I think so!
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Ana Vyr
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 19:50:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ana Vyr on 17/05/2010 19:50:20
Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 17/05/2010 17:06:15 Bumping this thread for great justice.
edit:
Originally by: Gariuys
CCP has been running a succesful MMO, with a continously expanding player base for the past 7 years, and been developing said game the past 10 years. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. Most of the time anyway. ;-)
CCP has also been the target of major criticism from over 50% of its user base for the past x years because they simply refuse to seriously take time to fix what is broken. Instead they focus on expanding features that will bring more players to their game. They don't give a sh*t about their existing member base; we're just a number to them, one which they are solely focused on increasing rather than pleasing. CCP might THINK that they are trying to please us with new features, but this is simply further evidence that CCP does not listen to what we want most. They have said that they are going to spend more time fixing and improving what is already there, but their actions have shown that they have little intention of following through on that [broken] promise. (And it IS a broken promise, CCP)
What do you expect when the veteran playerbase keeps continuing to pay them by paying their monthly subs? The rabid fans are rewarding CCP's behaviour. Heck, half the players here are paying for more than one account, for crap sakes.
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S'qarpium D'igil
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 20:00:00 -
[41]
Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 17/05/2010 20:03:52
Originally by: Ana Vyr Edited by: Ana Vyr on 17/05/2010 19:50:20
What do you expect when the veteran playerbase keeps continuing to pay them by paying their monthly subs? The rabid fans are rewarding CCP's behaviour. Heck, half the players here are paying for more than one account, for crap sakes.
The only real reason I think this happens is because CCP has the only DECENT internet spaceships MMO available. If a company with a good business sense -- one that actually cared about their product and their customers -- released a good spaceship MMO, I think CCP would finally have a harsh reality check.
As it is we're stuck with CCP and their broken promises.
As for people having multiple subscriptions, this is a model that CCP encourages (the 'power of two' promotion comes to mind here). Once again, it's all about numbers for them; they don't seem interested in the amount of value you can get out of their product with just one active subscription.
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Serpent Kamri
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 20:13:00 -
[42]
Chillax guys, CCP have clearly adopted Valve time. According to the calendar early 2010 means 18th of November 2011.
...except it won't be nearly as polished as Valve releases are.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 20:18:00 -
[43]
I just don't know why this pvp game we need wait years for weapon/ship rebalancing when it is essentially fiddling with some numbers (doesn't need art team, etc). Like with Hel...how long can it take to just tweak the ship a little bit so it is comparable to the others .I can understand maybe take a while to do the numbers for recent projectile changes, but just add a bonus/change some number...ffs
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 20:37:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ashina Sito Eve is an evolving Universe. There will never bee an Eve II. Eve will expand and morph itself over time and will become an "Eve II" though the process.
By my count we're already on Eve 13.
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 20:39:00 -
[45]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis It does suck that we have not been able to slot the assault frigate and rocket reviews into Tyrannis and that those of you eagerly awaiting it will need to wait longer but such as the limitation of pipeline bandwidth.
How much longer? Rockets issue is already approaching 2 years of age. Should we wait before it grow up and marry to produce a child? -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Kharadran Sullath
Caldari Subordination
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 20:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ghoest *****, *****, moan, moan, rave, rave etc...
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Ghoest
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 20:57:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Kharadran Sullath
Originally by: Ghoest *****, *****, moan, moan, rave, rave etc...
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
So the truth hurts fan boi? Awwwwwwwww.
Anyway. Anyone whose been around EVE for years not that my prediction in the case is more likely to come true than the Devs carefully worded non-promise.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar Blacklight Incorporated
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 21:26:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 17/05/2010 21:27:27
(edit: just not worth the effort.)
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr InterSun Freelance
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 21:39:00 -
[49]
Originally by: S'qarpium D'igil Edited by: S''qarpium D''igil on 17/05/2010 20:09:45
Originally by: Ana Vyr Edited by: Ana Vyr on 17/05/2010 19:50:20
What do you expect when the veteran playerbase keeps continuing to pay them by paying their monthly subs? The rabid fans are rewarding CCP's behaviour. Heck, half the players here are paying for more than one account, for crap sakes.
The only real reason I think this happens is because CCP has the only DECENT internet spaceships MMO available. If a company with a good business sense -- one that actually cared about their product and their customers -- released a good spaceship MMO, I think CCP would finally have a harsh reality check.
As it is we're stuck with CCP and their broken promises.
As for people having multiple subscriptions, this is a model that CCP encourages (the 'power of two' promotion comes to mind here). Once again, it's all about numbers for them; they don't seem interested in the amount of value you can get out of their product with just one active subscription. If you're going to fly a capital ship, it's almost a necessity to have a cyno/scouting alt account.
But we're digressing here... The real issue in this thread is that CCP isn't fixing the things that they told us they would fix in any kind of reasonable timeframe.
/Thread
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Elder Man
Gallente ATRISC
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 23:10:00 -
[50]
CCP has bigger fish to fry than Assault Frigs. ffs Elder Man |
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Shinji Seto
Minmatar Xolti Research
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 23:33:00 -
[51]
WooHooo I'm posting the the bi-annual pre expansion whine thread! \o/ "Outlaw" This was the name given to those who roam the universe with only his freedom as his guide. |
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 23:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Shinji Seto WooHooo I'm posting the the bi-annual pre expansion whine thread! \o/
Me too! :hfive:
|
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 00:43:00 -
[53]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Shinji Seto WooHooo I'm posting the the bi-annual pre expansion whine thread! \o/
Me too! :hfive:
Seriously.. You hurt our collective bi-annual feelings.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
A vote for Cat will be just as effective as his voice will be for you! lol |
S'qarpium D'igil
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 01:23:00 -
[54]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Shinji Seto WooHooo I'm posting the the bi-annual pre expansion whine thread! \o/
Me too! :hfive:
2/10
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Captain Mastiff
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 01:24:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 18/05/2010 01:27:39
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Shinji Seto WooHooo I'm posting the the bi-annual pre expansion whine thread! \o/
Me too! :hfive:
Lack of content there Soundwave?
I for one am sick of CCP putting this off... 2 years is a joke!
Also I might as well add... What kind of company actually jokes about itself with all the "Soontm" ****, I don't actually see it as good advertisement or even customer relations. I actually see it quite sad that they do so frequently make fun of themselves due to their approach to actually fixing things.
To top it off... they refuse to listen to people saying the expansion isn't ready for release through testing and they wait until 3/4 days before expansion release before they announce its rescheduling. I've got so sick of these mass testings as I am yet to see any sort of improvement from any of these tests.
**** LAG, FIX ROFLKETS!
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 02:07:00 -
[56]
Hey Chronitis, how about you just hire me to work on weapon balancing. I'll work cheap, and I can probably hammer out the basic issues in a couple weeks in Iceland before heading back to Portland. Or just hire me to telecommute.... I r gud at datuhbayses n prowgraymeeng n stuffz!!!
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Elaron
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 05:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: CCP Chronotis we can see why you might infer 'post-dominion' as 'immediately following dominion' and no matter how many disclaimers we add to our posts, they never seem to be enough.
Assault Frigates were promised IN dominion, and then Dominion 1.1 specifically.
Eve search it yourselves, devs.
Of course, now you've pointed this out, I doubt that there will be another serious dev reply in this thread.
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Bibbleibble
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 05:41:00 -
[58]
What I want to know, is what the game designers are working on that isn't rockets. Because they can't seriously expect us to believe that they are all working on PI, or if they do, it would seem I've vastly overestimated how good they are at their jobs.
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Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt
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Posted - 2010.05.18 06:25:00 -
[59]
Devs need to stop giving dates and say "SoonTM" like back in the days when no one complained.
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Chaeryl
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 06:56:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Chaeryl on 18/05/2010 06:58:18
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Kharadran Sullath
Originally by: Ghoest *****, *****, moan, moan, rave, rave etc...
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
So the truth hurts fan boi? Awwwwwwwww.
Anyway. Anyone whose been around EVE for years not that my prediction in the case is more likely to come true than the Devs carefully worded non-promise.
No really, you can leave if you want to.
Edit: Stupid alt.
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Ninetails o'Cat
League of Super Evil
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Posted - 2010.05.18 07:46:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Hey Chronitis, how about you just hire me to work on weapon balancing. I'll work cheap, and I can probably hammer out the basic issues in a couple weeks in Iceland before heading back to Portland. Or just hire me to telecommute.... I r gud at datuhbayses n prowgraymeeng n stuffz!!!
-Liang
^^ This.
The ironic thing is not that CCP is worse at balancing than some players: it's that I think there are some players who would have the actual desire to fix things that have been broken for far too long.
If CCP just came out and told us to shut up and that they were just focused on making the most money they can by releasing hollow and flashy expansions, then everything would be ok. However, they claim that they care about making the game good first, and the profits are just added extras. How the hell they can claim to do that when rockets are so pointlessly ****ed up that they do less damage than every other frigate weapon with less tracking and crap range, and when blasters are pretty much surpassed in pretty much every way by lasers and autocannons, and when what they say makes EVE so unique (sovereignty) is made completely and utterly redundant by lag, I cannot see.
CCP, if you actually cared about the game itself, you wouldn't let it get to this point in the first place. Even if it did, you'd fix it pretty faster, not just covering it up with "oh yeah, after dominion means whenever the hell we feel like moving away from new shiny crap".
Just my 0.02 ISK.
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Angeli Domini
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 07:57:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Ninetails o'Cat
Originally by: Liang Nuren Hey Chronitis, how about you just hire me to work on weapon balancing. I'll work cheap, and I can probably hammer out the basic issues in a couple weeks in Iceland before heading back to Portland. Or just hire me to telecommute.... I r gud at datuhbayses n prowgraymeeng n stuffz!!!
-Liang
^^ This.
The ironic thing is not that CCP is worse at balancing than some players: it's that I think there are some players who would have the actual desire to fix things that have been broken for far too long.
Then maybe those miracle kids could finally start thinking about leaving their mom's basement and, you know, start clickity here.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 13:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Angeli Domini Then maybe those miracle kids could finally start thinking about leaving their mom's basement and, you know, start clickity here.
Just so you know, I don't live in my mom's basement. I guess I live 2800 miles from her. ;-)
But on to the topic:
Originally by: Job Posting
At least 5 years experience as game designer in the industry, having worked on two seperate titles;
I don't have 5 years experience as a game designer - unless you want to consider almost 5 years suggesting (IMO what most people would consider to be REASONABLE fixes for Eve). If you're suggesting I put my resume in and link my forum posting history... ?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Arimathea Anthalas
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:12:00 -
[64]
Soundwave,
While your tongue-in-cheek statement is a little lol and worth the time I took to read it, this isn't a whine thread.
This is a request, from a customer, suggesting that CCP:
- Keep us updated on the backlog
- Be accurate in their phrasing
- Don't try to get it all "perfect" before you release it (it will never be perfect, and CCP should know this more than anyone)
- Don't wait 6+ months on reporting on something and then release an expansion and not mention it
By Chronotis' statement I can assume it will be 2015 before I get my Assault Frigate changes. I believe it's easy for him to in retrospect say, "I didn't really mean right after Dominion", even though there were several statements by CCP employees suggesting a variety of changes would be "right after" Dominion. That has an effect on how much money I pay CCP, particularly if I have a character I spent up training for AFs in anticipation of Dominion release.
I don't care how you do it, whether it's through the CSM or whatever, but generally I want companies I do business with to be honest with me and provide an accurate date, or at least a window, when something will be done. As EVE has a wide degree of unplayability for what I usually do (fleet fights), since you can't fix that problem I will naturally turn to things that "work".
When my local cable provider promises me my problem will be fixed by time and date X, they keep their promise or they pay me. When I tell my boss I will have a report done at 1600 on 19 May, it gets done or at least I tell him how much longer it will be.
If my ESPN is broken i'm going to go watch Fox Sports. Etc. Etc.
I think you get the idea.
Now quit answering the questions "around" my question.
When will we see AF changes? (Summer or not?) When will you fix the ability for T3 to light a covert cyno? When will you fix Gallente ships? Is it even on the drawing board? Do you simply think that a T2 ammo rework will solve the problem? When do you anticipate a fix to rockets?
WHEN WILL I GET MY PONY?
Thanks.
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Angeli Domini
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:26:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
But on to the topic:
Originally by: Job Posting
At least 5 years experience as game designer in the industry, having worked on two seperate titles;
I don't have 5 years experience as a game designer - unless you want to consider almost 5 years suggesting (IMO what most people would consider to be REASONABLE fixes for Eve). If you're suggesting I put my resume in and link my forum posting history... ?
-Liang
I highly doubt most people in CCP itself actually meet those criteria. Heck, I would hardly meet them and I was from the industry. You need to understand that secretly, most people leading those companies are actually pretty reasonable folks, and you have to put something there to filter out the hordes of teenagers that played Halo for a bit yesterday, and already consider themselves programmers, because they can setup graphics options. I've had a resume from a guy that thought he is a programmer, because he "can program windows in that black window like that you get you know when you type cmd and then you can type in there and not like clicking and you can program your network and you can program BAT" (yes, that was one of the worst days in my life, though there were more of those).
Of course, I could hardly speak for CCP, but those criteria you see in ads are almost universally bull****. Sure, it's somewhat tough having "butcher" as your current specialization and looking for a job at CCP, just because you'd like to fix a few bugs. But sometimes, there's a path in the middle... You know web pages? Have some coding skills (flash or whatever else crap they were looking for at the moment)? Cool, start working for them, let the company pay you a few Python courses and what you know, in a year or two, you can be fixing rockets. I've seen that happen before. No doubt there are some really talented people working at CCP, but if someone like Nozh* can work there, anybody can.
* - sorry for picking on that poor dude, just that nobody better came to mind at the moment
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Dragon Greg
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:31:00 -
[66]
Don't worry. They may just move assault frigates to a web only minigame for evegate |
Esk Esme
Caldari DEATHFUNK
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:47:00 -
[67]
AF do need a boost they been left behind but thing id like to see sorted is the server upgraded to handle a good few k players fighting in 1 system it probly a big job but isnt that devs job
awsome game but lag in fleet fights is terible and a major let down in eve
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:50:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Angeli Domini
Of course, I could hardly speak for CCP, but those criteria you see in ads are almost universally bull****. Sure, it's somewhat tough having "butcher" as your current specialization and looking for a job at CCP, just because you'd like to fix a few bugs. But sometimes, there's a path in the middle... You know web pages? Have some coding skills (flash or whatever else crap they were looking for at the moment)? Cool, start working for them, let the company pay you a few Python courses and what you know, in a year or two, you can be fixing rockets. I've seen that happen before. No doubt there are some really talented people working at CCP, but if someone like Nozh* can work there, anybody can.
Eh, sure... I guess. I do plenty of software development (as a Sr Software Developer I should!) and have done a fair bit of contributing to the Python project itself. I just figured that game development is somewhat of a different industry than data warehousing, and if they ask for game dev experience they probably mean it.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Angeli Domini
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 15:24:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Eh, sure... I guess. I do plenty of software development (as a Sr Software Developer I should!) and have done a fair bit of contributing to the Python project itself.
In my book, that practically makes you hired.
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I just figured that game development is somewhat of a different industry than data warehousing, and if they ask for game dev experience they probably mean it.
Yes and no, depends. You don't develop the game alone and it's the actual opposite - even with those 5 years/two WoWs on your resume, they won't let you nowhere close to actual EVE code without heavy supervision and multiple Q/A directed towards your every sneeze for many months to come. The risk of a ****up/sabotage/general stupidity (I can write myself a resume to single handedly develop EVE over a weekend.. Anybody can) is simply too big.
Seriously, if you are interested in a job there, just write them. Gather up your portfolio, spice it up with some bull**** (they will subtract 50% of your claims anyway), what can you lose? They won't troll you on the forums, they won't laugh (if so, you will never know), the worst thing that can happen is a short "We are sorry, but you are not the droid we're looking for. We wish you the best of luck elsewhere. And don't write again."
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:04:00 -
[70]
My main concern with complaints about balancing is that they're almost always based upon a belief that ship A is not as good as ship B. The trouble with that perspective if is that if you do 'balance' ship A with ship B you just get ship Bs. Everywhere.
The question shouldn't be how do we balance ships but how do we make them sufficiently divergent from each other whilst still being an attractive proposition?
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
|
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:12:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Cailais My main concern with complaints about balancing is that they're almost always based upon a belief that ship A is not as good as ship B. The trouble with that perspective if is that if you do 'balance' ship A with ship B you just get ship Bs. Everywhere.
The question shouldn't be how do we balance ships but how do we make them sufficiently divergent from each other whilst still being an attractive proposition?
C.
This is a valid concern, but people normally start complaining about something when there's either nothing its good at or its exceedingly difficult to bring about a favorable situation for and the reward for doing it is so slight. Thus, AFs and Rockets are definitely in need of a boost. Fortunately, rocket boosts are a fairly well explored territory - and IMO there are plenty of AF boost threads which satisfy the idea that they shouldn't be overpowered and not useless either.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Meeko Atari
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:15:00 -
[72]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis .. assault frigates ... rockets ... EAF ... Black ops ... tech II ammo
Real!
The Dev team has been "discussing" these ship classes for at least 2 years, just tell us the truth...
you have no plans or resources to "fix" these ships, I would rather hear that then some lame half-assed vague promise.
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S'qarpium D'igil
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:35:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Meeko Atari
Real!
The Dev team has been "discussing" these ship classes for at least 2 years, just tell us the truth...
you have no plans or resources to "fix" these ships, I would rather hear that then some lame half-assed vague promise.
Unfortunately this won't happen. CCP lacks the capacity to seriously address our concerns about the game without just spouting their propaganda bs.
I doubt we can expect another serious dev response in this thread (this assumes of course that we consider the two earlier dev responses to be serious in nature).
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Captain Mastiff
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:46:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Cailais My main concern with complaints about balancing is that they're almost always based upon a belief that ship A is not as good as ship B. The trouble with that perspective if is that if you do 'balance' ship A with ship B you just get ship Bs. Everywhere.
The question shouldn't be how do we balance ships but how do we make them sufficiently divergent from each other whilst still being an attractive proposition?
C.
Unfortunately when it comes to Assault Frigates its... ship A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I and any missile based Assault frigate.
Quote: The question shouldn't be how do we balance ships but how do we make them sufficiently divergent from each other whilst still being an attractive proposition?
The answer is the 2nd skill bonus for assault frigates, if each bonus is individual to the ship it really will make them unique. Rather than the typical failsauce they are. However when it comes to Roflkets... the issue is not "A better than B" Its A being completely nerfed by the fact it can never hit full damage if something starts moving... it needs webs to hit a cruiser for for full damage and its a frigate weapon! Where as B just hits what it wants and much more than A can ever and has ever done so.
So really AF and Roflkets/Explosion Velocity really needs to be looked at. Its not a "balancing" issue as such more of a fix for the **** that was initially.
However we all know they won't fix it and that is probably ever.
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BrundleMeth
Caldari Temporal Mechanics
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:56:00 -
[75]
Well...
I think the new Scorpions look cool...
But I keep getting them shot up omg pls fix...
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Ban Doga
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 17:18:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Angeli Domini
Originally by: Liang Nuren
But on to the topic:
Originally by: Job Posting
At least 5 years experience as game designer in the industry, having worked on two seperate titles;
I don't have 5 years experience as a game designer - unless you want to consider almost 5 years suggesting (IMO what most people would consider to be REASONABLE fixes for Eve). If you're suggesting I put my resume in and link my forum posting history... ?
-Liang
I highly doubt most people in CCP itself actually meet those criteria. Heck, I would hardly meet them and I was from the industry. You need to understand that secretly, most people leading those companies are actually pretty reasonable folks, and you have to put something there to filter out the hordes of teenagers that played Halo for a bit yesterday, and already consider themselves programmers, because they can setup graphics options. I've had a resume from a guy that thought he is a programmer, because he "can program windows in that black window like that you get you know when you type cmd and then you can type in there and not like clicking and you can program your network and you can program BAT" (yes, that was one of the worst days in my life, though there were more of those).
Of course, I could hardly speak for CCP, but those criteria you see in ads are almost universally bull****. Sure, it's somewhat tough having "butcher" as your current specialization and looking for a job at CCP, just because you'd like to fix a few bugs. But sometimes, there's a path in the middle... You know web pages? Have some coding skills (flash or whatever else crap they were looking for at the moment)? Cool, start working for them, let the company pay you a few Python courses and what you know, in a year or two, you can be fixing rockets. I've seen that happen before. No doubt there are some really talented people working at CCP, but if someone like Nozh* can work there, anybody can.
* - sorry for picking on that poor dude, just that nobody better came to mind at the moment
You seriously believe this will work?
When was the last time you applied for a job and told them "hire me so I can do what I want"? And when was the last time you heard "Oh sure!" as the reply.
Seriously, you think e.g. Rockets is not getting fixed just because no one at CCP wants to? It's not getting fixed because they scheduled a crapton of other stuff before that fix. What makes you think one could break that schedule and do what he deem right after doing 1-2 years what he was told?
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Angeli Domini
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 17:35:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Ban Doga
You seriously believe this will work?
When was the last time you applied for a job and told them "hire me so I can do what I want"? And when was the last time you heard "Oh sure!" as the reply.
Seriously, you think e.g. Rockets is not getting fixed just because no one at CCP wants to? It's not getting fixed because they scheduled a crapton of other stuff before that fix. What makes you think one could break that schedule and do what he deem right after doing 1-2 years what he was told?
Where exactly in my posts did I write single one of those things you seem to be commenting?
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.05.18 17:38:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Angeli Domini
Originally by: Ban Doga
You seriously believe this will work?
When was the last time you applied for a job and told them "hire me so I can do what I want"? And when was the last time you heard "Oh sure!" as the reply.
Seriously, you think e.g. Rockets is not getting fixed just because no one at CCP wants to? It's not getting fixed because they scheduled a crapton of other stuff before that fix. What makes you think one could break that schedule and do what he deem right after doing 1-2 years what he was told?
Where exactly in my posts did I write single one of those things you seem to be commenting?
Originally by: Angeli Domini
Cool, start working for them, let the company pay you a few Python courses and what you know, in a year or two, you can be fixing rockets.
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Angeli Domini
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.18 18:13:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: Angeli Domini Cool, start working for them, let the company pay you a few Python courses and what you know, in a year or two, you can be fixing rockets.
Let me rephrase that sentence for you, my bright friend:
Marvelous! It might be a good idea if you tried to forge an employment relationship with this Crowd Control Productions Games company. Hopefully, in case there will be such an opportunity, and as soon as possible, you should start thinking about accepting any available offer to enter an Employee Education And Training Program, especially with focus on the so called "Python" programming language. While the future is always uncertain, with the right astrological arrangement, you might eventually find yourself in position, where your skills and expertise won't get unnoticed with your executives. Being in the right place at the right time might put you into postion, where you are offered a new working place at the company, actively involving the mechanics of the so called "EVE Online" internet computer game. You can never know, in those years, one of those features you might find yourself working on, who knows, might actually involve the mechanics of computer pixel rockets.
On unrelated note, please die horribly in a car accident.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2010.05.18 19:09:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Angeli Domini
Let me rephrase that sentence for you, my bright friend:
Marvelous! It might be a good idea if you tried to forge an employment relationship with this Crowd Control Productions Games company. Hopefully, in case there will be such an opportunity, and as soon as possible, you should start thinking about accepting any available offer to enter an Employee Education And Training Program, especially with focus on the so called "Python" programming language. While the future is always uncertain, with the right astrological arrangement, you might eventually find yourself in position, where your skills and expertise won't get unnoticed with your executives. Being in the right place at the right time might put you into postion, where you are offered a new working place at the company, actively involving the mechanics of the so called "EVE Online" internet computer game. You can never know, in those years, one of those features you might find yourself working on, who knows, might actually involve the mechanics of computer pixel rockets.
On unrelated note, please die horribly in a car accident.
You forgot "(in-game)". And I'm seriously wondering what's getting you so upset?
Need a hug?
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2010.05.18 19:17:00 -
[81]
How things actually work:
Just after an expansion some of the key game designers sit together to discuss what will get done for the next expansion. Fixing rockets, AF, and other items will be on the list, as well as some new ideas kicked around to keep the gameplay life and kicking as well as bringing in new players, the lifeblood of the game.
With this list in hand, said developers will try to mix and match available resources, man-power, and available with the items on the list. A decision will be made to pick-up some items on the list and not spend time on others based on this matching process. Then the expansion/patch/what-ever you wanna call it gets made, hopefully, but clearly not always, on time.
Now we can agree with, or disagree with the priorities used to decide on this list. I certainly do. But beyond you liking some of the items on the eventual list, or you not liking some of the items on the eventual list, cut have to be made, and have been made. Fixing rockets, and the other things, also lamented by me, didn't make the cut. Sorry for you, but that's how it goes, deal with it.
Now instead of epic whinage, why don't you bother your CSM representatives about these priorities some more. Apparently they have the ear of CCP, and there the whinage may actually do some good. Tipping over your toy-cart here clearly isn't going to change the priorities set in motion several months ago. Personally I have already convinced my representative of the imperative to have CCP prioritise fixing: 1. lag, 2. engine trails, and 3. the cyno effect (in that order). I won't mind a fix to rockets and AF either BTW.
So Mazz, I expect you to ***** the forums and the devs like a crack-***** on crack and deliver this to me by the next expansion (when WiS isn't going to show up), otherwise I'm gonna troll you with gay-nudity in epic proportions everywhere you go. You have been warned.
As to CCP, my advice is to hire more proper programmers and lay-off some game designers, as it seems programming capabilities is where the bottleneck is, and I'm not too impressed by your game designers. For this time, I'm not gonna charge for that advice, it's all free ... -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.05.18 19:22:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Marchocias on 18/05/2010 19:22:58
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane As to CCP, my advice is to hire more proper programmers and lay-off some game designers, as it seems programming capabilities is where the bottleneck is, and I'm not too impressed by your game designers. For this time, I'm not gonna charge for that advice, it's all free ...
Pretty much this! Its the coders that are gold dust. Any bugger can design stuff. Anyway, generally things are better with fewer designers, as one strong leader is likely to have a more convincing vision than a comittee that is trying desperately not to annoy anyone.
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.18 19:27:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Marchocias Edited by: Marchocias on 18/05/2010 19:22:58
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane As to CCP, my advice is to hire more proper programmers and lay-off some game designers, as it seems programming capabilities is where the bottleneck is, and I'm not too impressed by your game designers. For this time, I'm not gonna charge for that advice, it's all free ...
Pretty much this! Its the coders that are gold dust. Any bugger can design stuff. Anyway, generally things are better with fewer designers, as one strong leader is likely to have a more convincing vision than a comittee that is trying desperately not to annoy anyone.
Granted, I know almost nothing about coding, but I'm surprised that increasing the base damage and explosion velocity of rockets by 25% is such a difficult task.
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Maria Martillo
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.18 20:05:00 -
[84]
There is a common feeling in all of this... When i started to play EvE i was amazed discovering purposes, to say, skill tree: "so many days for a 2%??? what the ****!!! then, the time passed and i realised what that 2% means... It was awesome. EvE was matter of Patience, much patience.. "Patience is bitter, but his fruits are sooo sweet" In the same way were some other features, the responses at the forum claims, etc. Doing a second thinking, i could saw beyond the facts, the way CCP managed things with a not apparently, but real wisdom... It was awesome too, but.... Then CCP started a rush to gain subs numbers....
Patience was lost, and some decisions were taked in that way... Problem is no AF AB issue, is the lost of that wise patient spirit.
I know things can't stisfy evrybody, but... more and more(useless?) content to bring new people for a while... i'd rather want the smaller, old, wise and patient EvE i miss.
-Mary, Hammer of infidels -Disclaimer: Yeah!! my english sucks so the meaning of my post could be diferent of what yo're thinking it is..
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.05.18 20:07:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Angeli Domini Then maybe those miracle kids could finally start thinking about leaving their mom's basement and, you know, start clickity here.
Just so you know, I don't live in my mom's basement. I guess I live 2800 miles from her. ;-)
But on to the topic:
Originally by: Job Posting
At least 5 years experience as game designer in the industry, having worked on two seperate titles;
I don't have 5 years experience as a game designer - unless you want to consider almost 5 years suggesting (IMO what most people would consider to be REASONABLE fixes for Eve). If you're suggesting I put my resume in and link my forum posting history... ?
-Liang
Can you give any examples of other games where your suggestions have improved the overall balance of play? --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.18 21:19:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Can you give any examples of other games where your suggestions have improved the overall balance of play?
Depends if you're looking to hire me?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Selene D'Celeste
Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2010.05.18 22:50:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Angeli Domini Then maybe those miracle kids could finally start thinking about leaving their mom's basement and, you know, start clickity here.
Just so you know, I don't live in my mom's basement. I guess I live 2800 miles from her. ;-)
But on to the topic:
Originally by: Job Posting
At least 5 years experience as game designer in the industry, having worked on two seperate titles;
I don't have 5 years experience as a game designer - unless you want to consider almost 5 years suggesting (IMO what most people would consider to be REASONABLE fixes for Eve). If you're suggesting I put my resume in and link my forum posting history... ?
-Liang
Can you give any examples of other games where your suggestions have improved the overall balance of play?
I know he can give you some examples of terrible posting! (No offense, had to be done =P)
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Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.05.18 23:51:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 18/05/2010 23:53:11
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Can you give any examples of other games where your suggestions have improved the overall balance of play?
Does giving examples of games where my suggestions werent listened to and the game went crap count? :)
And yeah same as was posted above - in few cases i REALLY doubt some of devs had required work experience.
EDIT: also ill make some fun of that rquirements: Job Requirements:
* At least 3 years experience as game designer in the industry * A thorough understanding of MMO games design and the development processes * Understanding and proficiency in systems designs
Sure i agree.
Preferable skills/requirements: * Good understanding of game mechanics: control, player feedback, game flow, GUI, rules and rewards * Game logic, game balancing and problem solving skills
Result? Having 3 years of experience but having no clue about the game can give you job faster than actually knowing how game works but having no experience. Ill let you guess which "to_be_dev" person id prefer to play with game balance...
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Gil Danastre
Amarr Aeon Of Strife Discord.
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Posted - 2010.05.19 03:50:00 -
[89]
Sadly it's already been summed up by a dev before as to why things basically get abandoned;
Originally by: CCP Incognito There has been a few posts that say I am working on this. Just to be clear I am working to get time put on the schedule for this to be redone. The problem with that is that reworking something that is mostly working is harder than getting something new added to the schedule. Things that are new are things that sell EvE and bring in new players, are also cool and shiny... Reworking old stuff only has a small impact, so is less cost effective... Sad cold truth there.... But still fighting the good fight.
Taken from the flogging the dead horse thread
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S'qarpium D'igil
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Posted - 2010.05.19 14:33:00 -
[90]
Back to page one.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.19 14:47:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Gil Danastre Sadly it's already been summed up by a dev before as to why things basically get abandoned;
Originally by: CCP Incognito There has been a few posts that say I am working on this. Just to be clear I am working to get time put on the schedule for this to be redone. The problem with that is that reworking something that is mostly working is harder than getting something new added to the schedule. Things that are new are things that sell EvE and bring in new players, are also cool and shiny... Reworking old stuff only has a small impact, so is less cost effective... Sad cold truth there.... But still fighting the good fight.
Taken from the flogging the dead horse thread
Well that dev comment was mostly aimed at pos where there was never any specific promise to actually do something more with them as they are considered to be 'working' as intended. But yeah given the literal years since certain promises were made about other content and still not so much as a dev blog with simply a big SoonÖ as the body has us a bit cranky.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
A vote for Cat will be just as effective as his voice will be for you! lol |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Primary.
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Posted - 2010.05.19 14:48:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Gil Danastre Sadly it's already been summed up by a dev before as to why things basically get abandoned;
Originally by: CCP Incognito There has been a few posts that say I am working on this. Just to be clear I am working to get time put on the schedule for this to be redone. The problem with that is that reworking something that is mostly working is harder than getting something new added to the schedule. Things that are new are things that sell EvE and bring in new players, are also cool and shiny... Reworking old stuff only has a small impact, so is less cost effective... Sad cold truth there.... But still fighting the good fight.
Taken from the flogging the dead horse thread
It's such sh*tty business sense, though. I know a number of people who have quit, and I talk to them occasionally. They'll ask, "Have they fixed (such and such) yet?" "Uh no, but they're adding farmville in space!" isn't exactly the response they're looking for.
Yeah, getting new people to join is important, but at the cost of losing older players? What's the point?
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.19 14:52:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Seth Ruin Yeah, getting new people to join is important, but at the cost of losing older players? What's the point?
If newplayer subs > old player ragequits then ccp has the better deal because it will be months or even years before the new players run across or even understand the problems the old players nuke the forums about.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
A vote for Cat will be just as effective as his voice will be for you! lol |
Seth Ruin
Minmatar Ominous Corp Primary.
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Posted - 2010.05.19 15:02:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Seth Ruin Yeah, getting new people to join is important, but at the cost of losing older players? What's the point?
If newplayer subs > old player ragequits then ccp has the better deal because it will be months or even years before the new players run across or even understand the problems the old players nuke the forums about.
But that's an extremely shortsighted view. If they improve the game and keep existing players interested, those existing players would spread the word about how great the game is, etc. Shiny expansions are only good for attracting new people who will be either bored or overwhelmed in a month.
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Angeli Domini
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.19 15:06:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Seth Ruin Yeah, getting new people to join is important, but at the cost of losing older players? What's the point?
Old/returning players rarely still hold any kind of remaining momentum with them. An old player is just a single guy. He will be analyzing changes, he will be too picky, hell, he might even be be dangerously rational, and what about those worst cases already past the untreatable stage of Bitter Vet Syndrome... Really not the best kind of cash cow you may be looking for.
On the other hand, new players? "Yeaah, Farmville with spacey rokeets pew pew wooo, I'm gonna tell all my Facey-Booky friends to try that!" Even if only bunch of them makes it past the trial stage, you still see that difference in your accounting and in your bank ballance. And that in the end, is all that matters.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.19 15:08:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Seth Ruin
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Seth Ruin Yeah, getting new people to join is important, but at the cost of losing older players? What's the point?
If newplayer subs > old player ragequits then ccp has the better deal because it will be months or even years before the new players run across or even understand the problems the old players nuke the forums about.
But that's an extremely shortsighted view. If they improve the game and keep existing players interested, those existing players would spread the word about how great the game is, etc. Shiny expansions are only good for attracting new people who will be either bored or overwhelmed in a month.
Well considering the steady climb of the subscribeOmeter chart it seems to be working out rather well for ccp. I have no doubt that ccp will eventually get around to all the stuff we are harping about but as I have mentioned before ccp years seem to be rather longer than player years by several factors.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
A vote for Cat will be just as effective as his voice will be for you! lol |
Gil Danastre
Amarr Aeon Of Strife Discord.
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Posted - 2010.05.19 22:29:00 -
[97]
It'd be nice if they had a team in each expansion dedicated to just making/revamping bits and pieces of old content (They could already, but judging by the patch notes it doesn't seem like it). The fabled 5th subsystem for Tech 3, making POS's suck less, cyno effects, sound(?), etc. Or even have a repeat of the summer mini expansion again, and just have it solely fixing old stuff.
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S'qarpium D'igil
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Posted - 2010.05.19 22:32:00 -
[98]
Well they're already dedicating a team to continue improving PI after Tyrannis releases... maybe they realized that the Tyrannis we're getting is not the Tyrannis they promised us last year?
Maybe, just maybe, they will also dedicate a team (tbh I'd be happy if they dedicated just one person) to rebalancing the stuff they promised us, too.
I doubt it, though.
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.05.20 18:13:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Marchocias Edited by: Marchocias on 18/05/2010 19:22:58
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane As to CCP, my advice is to hire more proper programmers and lay-off some game designers, as it seems programming capabilities is where the bottleneck is, and I'm not too impressed by your game designers. For this time, I'm not gonna charge for that advice, it's all free ...
Pretty much this! Its the coders that are gold dust. Any bugger can design stuff. Anyway, generally things are better with fewer designers, as one strong leader is likely to have a more convincing vision than a comittee that is trying desperately not to annoy anyone.
Granted, I know almost nothing about coding, but I'm surprised that increasing the base damage and explosion velocity of rockets by 25% is such a difficult task.
Its not. But with fewer designers and commttee meetings to discuss it, it might actually just get done. And basically, you can never have enough coders.
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
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