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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.14 21:33:00 -
[1]
...what the hell happened to t2 ship prices. Now i am not some smart indy guy like you, the most i delve into indy is throwing stuff in the oven way out in null sec.
Now last time i looked at zealots for instance they were 130m a pop, now they are 90m, wtf happened?
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.14 22:02:00 -
[2]
I guess the components got cheaper. Just do the math, and you will see.
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.05.14 22:55:00 -
[3]
Some people might tell you that market speculators drove the prices of raw t2 materials up after the patch, and now all that jazz is settling down.
I think that's a mythical reason though. Really, what happened is that the reactions and moon mining community have streamlined themselves over the last few months following the disarray they were in when Domi hit.
Viola, cheaper t2.
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:18:00 -
[4]
Every average Joe and his dog saw the phat profitz to be made in the moon goo business. Even when profits stopped being so "phat," the volume brought to Jita on a day to day basis never declined. I expect moongoo prices to rebound over the next several months to more reasonable levels.
-L
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:19:00 -
[5]
When did you get a dog Leech? Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge Got Game? Peak a boo... |
Lecherito
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Posted - 2010.05.15 01:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania When did you get a dog Leech?
Impressive. Not at all bad for a non-native speaker.
-L
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Caleb Ayrania
Gallente TarNec
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Posted - 2010.05.15 02:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lecherito
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania When did you get a dog Leech?
Impressive. Not at all bad for a non-native speaker.
-L
Confirming Lecherito is a native non-speaker..(with a dog obviously) Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge Got Game? Peak a boo... |
Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2010.05.15 02:50:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
Originally by: Lecherito
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania When did you get a dog Leech?
Impressive. Not at all bad for a non-native speaker.
-L
Confirming Lecherito is a native non-speaker..(with a dog obviously)
Does his dog do the translating for him?
Store | Get SRS |
flakeys
DRAMA Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.15 05:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania
Originally by: Lecherito
Originally by: Caleb Ayrania When did you get a dog Leech?
Impressive. Not at all bad for a non-native speaker.
-L
Confirming Lecherito is a native non-speaker..(with a dog obviously)
Does his dog do the translating for him?
His friends call him Dolittle
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Johanna Frite
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Posted - 2010.05.17 02:20:00 -
[10]
The drop in T2 prices was sudden and happened over the past 3-4 weeks. Prices were holding stable before this period. So all these tales of optimization are obviously not applicable to what OP asked, otherwise devaluation would have been slow and gradual and there would not have been the hold-plunge pattern that so many T2 ships have followed.
My guess would be that they are going to introduce something in upcoming expansion which will be coming out in about 10 days People went on test server, saw some red sign there, then all started listing their T2 ships for sale. That would explain the plunge, however, I am not a T2 ship producer so cannot speculate about this with any certainty.
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Khatred
ReallyPissedOff Guinea Pigs
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Posted - 2010.05.17 05:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Johanna Frite The drop in T2 prices was sudden and happened over the past 3-4 weeks. Prices were holding stable before this period. So all these tales of optimization are obviously not applicable to what OP asked, otherwise devaluation would have been slow and gradual and there would not have been the hold-plunge pattern that so many T2 ships have followed.
My guess would be that they are going to introduce something in upcoming expansion which will be coming out in about 10 days People went on test server, saw some red sign there, then all started listing their T2 ships for sale. That would explain the plunge, however, I am not a T2 ship producer so cannot speculate about this with any certainty.
This is incorrect. The T2 ships prices have been going down quite steadily and for quite a while.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 09:36:00 -
[12]
Wait T2 cruisers are cheap again?
Why now when I am broke?
UP YOURS MD I HATE YOU
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.05.17 12:26:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 17/05/2010 12:27:07 Things that could affect t2 prices on Tyranis that I'm aware of:
Increase of insurance payout on (some?) t2 hulls. Decrease of price on t3 hulls from a wastage reduction on blueprints. Production of t2 parts on planets.
I'm not a producer and I've not checked the numbers on that changes so I don't know the extend of said changes.
EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.17 14:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 17/05/2010 12:27:07 Things that could affect t2 prices on Tyranis that I'm aware of:
Increase of insurance payout on (some?) t2 hulls. Decrease of price on t3 hulls from a wastage reduction on blueprints. Production of t2 parts on planets.
I'm not a producer and I've not checked the numbers on that changes so I don't know the extend of said changes.
this guy nailed it. knowledge is power |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.05.17 14:41:00 -
[15]
What waste on T3 BPs.... Subsystems need 1 unit on 5 components. Even if it was 40% waste, rounding would still make it 1 unit. Off the Reverse Engineered BPCs that is.
About the biggest would be ships.
15x R.A.M.- Starship Tech 17x Metallofullerene Plating 22x Nanowire Composites
At the moment changing it to
14x R.A.M.- Starship Tech 15x Metallofullerene Plating 20x Nanowire Composites
Would result in a 0.389% decrease in price.
On the component level it could get a small increase. But here are the numbers for 1 of each component. I've marked the ones that could benifit from a waste reduction.
C3-FTM Acid5 (none) Carbon-86 Epoxy Resin10 By 1 (Across 1 component) Fullerene Intercalated Graphite22 By 2 (Across 2 components 1 per component) Fulleroferrocene140 By 12 (Across 6 components, biggest being Neurovisual Output Analyzer reduction of 5) Graphene Nanoribbons25 (none) Yep none. Lanthanum Metallofullerene35 By 3 (Across 3 components) Methanofullerene15 By 2 on Fullerferrocene Power Conduits PPD Fullerene Fibers46 By 3 (Across 3 components) Scandium Metallofullerene40 by 4 (Across 4 components) Cartesian Temporal Coordinator1 (none) Central System Controller1 (none) Defensive Control Node1 (none) Electromechanical Hull Sheeting48 By 1 only, on Neurovisual Output Analyzer Emergent Combat Analyzer1 (none) Emergent Combat Intelligence1 (none) Fused Nanomechanical Engines1 (none) Heuristic Selfassemblers1 (none) Jump Drive Control Nexus1 (none) Melted Nanoribbons6 (none) Modified Fluid Router35 (none) yes, really none Neurovisual Input Matrix6 (none) Powdered C-540 Graphite16 (none) yep, none again. Resonance Calibration Matrix1 (none) Thermoelectric Catalysts1 (none)
You see Neurovisual Output Analyzer on that list twice, and it does indeed have a biggest effect. At the moment prices are about 31,451,145.61 ISK (My cost) If I account for component BPOs actual research taking effect it will cost me this - 30,380,124.67 ISK (3.4% cheaper, 1,071,020.94 ISK)
For giggle I'll give you the NEXT biggest reduction in cost. Fullerferrocene Power Conduits From 786,343.11 ISK To 724,220.11 ISK 62,123 ISK cheaper which is 7.9% cheaper, but come on, it's 62K big deal.
Conclusion - It's clear they want to reduce the price of Neurovisual Output Analyzer's but really all they need to do is increase Melted Nanoribbons and BOOM instant drop in price.
Here are the breakdown components for T3 for a completely assembled and flyable ship (Hull + 5 Sub systems) Total cost - 269,180,652.14 ISK 15x R.A.M.- Starship Tech254,493.17 ISK 1x Electromechanical Interface Nexus444,677.09 ISK 1x Emergent Neurovisual Interface12,633,037.82 ISK 14x Fullerene Intercalated Sheets148,057,913.42 ISK 6x Fullerferrocene Power Conduits4,718,058.63 ISK 22x Metallofullerene Plating3,546,840.98 ISK 26x Nanowire Composites 2,883,499.04 ISK 3x Neurovisual Output Analyzer94,353,436.83 ISK 1x Optimized Nano-Engines445,165.83 ISK 1x Reconfigured Subspace Calibrator383,460.08 ISK 1x Reinforced Metallofullerene Alloys729,743.63 ISK 1x Warfare Computation Core730,325.62 ISK
Neurovisual Output Analyzer is a big part of the cost, but it's only 94.35mil. About 1mil savings per component and it's still 91-92mil. Fullerene Intercalated Sheets on the other hand is something else. Fulleroferrocene the bulk of the cost. At the moment the BPO uses 30 Fulleroferrocene to produce 1 unit. However that is not where the price is. The ISK is all in the Melted Nanoribbons. A reduction of 2 Fulleroferrocene's per unit would only be 3-4K price reduction.
Until CCP see Melted Nanoribbons as the reason why T3 is so pricey, it's going to stay pricey.
Amarr for Life |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.17 14:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Akita T on 17/05/2010 14:49:18
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing wtf happened?
BECAUSE OF FALCON DOMINION Basically, technetium is now the "main bottleneck" material (instead of dysprosium) as far as extraction capability goes, and neodymium the "secondary bottleneck" (like promethium used to), but there are pretty big stockpiles of both which prevent them from price-spiking for the time being. All T2 ship prices DID spike immediately after Dominion, but it wasn't so much due to the moon mineral price changes (that actually went DOWN overall), but because of the huge additional demand for POS reaction capacity (overall it roughly doubled for the same products) and demand for T2 component manufacture lines (for specific components, it tripled). Now that reacting and T2 component manufacture price levels have started stabilizing (and are still constantly lowering towards pre-Dominion levels), T2 ship prices are also coming down... and will continue to go down as the tech/neo stockpiles last... eventually, the stockpiles will get more and more depleted, and prices will start to go back up.
P.S. The increased payout levels for T2 ships in Tyrannis certainly won't help keep prices low either
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2010.05.18 00:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: SencneS Numbers.
Thanks for the analysis, I did like to know the meaning of the changes, but wasn't compelled enough to spend my time learning t3 production. Originally by: Akita T P.S. The increased payout levels for T2 ships in Tyrannis certainly won't help keep prices low either.
Those were my thoughts, t2 insurance seems to be the biggest force in the changes, but... How much does NPC fuel affect the cost of running a POS? (Again another area I don't know much about). If those plummet in price, could it be that extractions costs reduce the cost of moongoo enough to affect t2 prices? If ship prices go up (prices subsidized by insurance) and every cost priced material go down we may see insane profits on bottleneck moons when stockpiles deplete. Also how much does affect the price the t2 parts that are going to be manufactured on planets?
EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.05.18 04:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: SencneS Hotness.
There's a juicy bit in here.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.05.18 04:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alice Celadon
Originally by: SencneS Hotness.
There's a juicy bit in here.
Imagine having a sheet that does it all for you :) I believe I know what you are referring to, my advice is to just make sure about it first. Because it's been like that for a while, and I can say that I truly believe the suppliers are thinking "The stuff I get from sites is FREE!!"
Just a heads up, I was caught and still am but I'm slowly consuming what I purchased
Amarr for Life |
Demolishar
United Aggression Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.05.18 21:36:00 -
[20]
I'm really struggling to resist the urge to pick up a 100-strong fleet of Curses and never worry about ship replacement again.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.18 21:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Demolishar I'm really struggling to resist the urge to pick up a 100-strong fleet of Curses and never worry about ship replacement again.
Considering you could probably sell them for a nice mark-up in a couple of months or so if you want, and if you have the needed ISK to pull it off just sitting around unused, why don't you just do it ? It's a win-win situation anyway.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Demolishar
United Aggression Eternal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.05.18 21:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Demolishar I'm really struggling to resist the urge to pick up a 100-strong fleet of Curses and never worry about ship replacement again.
Considering you could probably sell them for a nice mark-up in a couple of months or so if you want, and if you have the needed ISK to pull it off just sitting around unused, why don't you just do it ? It's a win-win situation anyway.
Because you're advising it.
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