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Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
71
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Posted - 2012.07.13 12:52:00 -
[91] - Quote
Haquer wrote:Cebraio wrote:TheBreadMuncher wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:We're on the highway to hell. Hiiiighwaaaay toooo theeee danger zoooneeee Top Gun == 80s gay movie You take that back.
What's wrong, Archer? We all know you aren't like that. Well, ok, there was that one time with that Cuban dissident that Castro tried to have killed... A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
30
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Posted - 2012.07.13 12:53:00 -
[92] - Quote
Aruken Marr wrote:But their killboard's green. It was a moral victory. -A- can stick their green killboards up so far their behinds that only 18+ tonnes trucks can ever get it back.
Anything else you'd want to know about -A- killboards? |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
1949
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Posted - 2012.07.13 12:56:00 -
[93] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:Haquer wrote:Cebraio wrote:TheBreadMuncher wrote:Karadion Kohlar wrote:We're on the highway to hell. Hiiiighwaaaay toooo theeee danger zoooneeee Top Gun == 80s gay movie You take that back. What's wrong, Archer? We all know you aren't like that. Well, ok, there was that one time with that Cuban dissident that Castro tried to have killed...
DANGER ZONE! TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
Aruken Marr
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
193
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Posted - 2012.07.13 13:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Aruken Marr wrote:But their killboard's green. It was a moral victory. -A- can stick their green killboards up so far their behinds that only 18+ tonnes trucks can ever get it back. Anything else you'd want to know about -A- killboards?
Do I detect some love loss between you guys and -A-? What happened? I live under a rock you see. |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
30
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Posted - 2012.07.13 13:08:00 -
[95] - Quote
Aruken Marr wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Aruken Marr wrote:But their killboard's green. It was a moral victory. -A- can stick their green killboards up so far their behinds that only 18+ tonnes trucks can ever get it back. Anything else you'd want to know about -A- killboards? Do I detect some love loss between you guys and -A-? What happened? I live under a rock you see. It also has something to do with -A- standing down fleets in order to keep their killboards green, and some other stuff as well, and the "dock up, hide beneath the blankets, and the bogeymen can't touch you". Which is true, we were docked up after all, but you could touch our stuff. |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
178
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Posted - 2012.07.13 13:25:00 -
[96] - Quote
So, GoOns beat the game? GoOns win? Okay, we can all quit now since the winner has been announced. |
Aruken Marr
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
194
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Posted - 2012.07.13 14:03:00 -
[97] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Aruken Marr wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Aruken Marr wrote:But their killboard's green. It was a moral victory. -A- can stick their green killboards up so far their behinds that only 18+ tonnes trucks can ever get it back. Anything else you'd want to know about -A- killboards? Do I detect some love loss between you guys and -A-? What happened? I live under a rock you see. It also has something to do with -A- standing down fleets in order to keep their killboards green, and some other stuff as well, and the "dock up, hide beneath the blankets, and the bogeymen can't touch you". Which is true, we were docked up after all, but you could touch our stuff.
I guess that's the problem when your friends care more about their precious K/D than they do about having fun, you, your space or their own space for than matter.
Don't worry. We'll drag them through the dirt for you. |
Cameron Cahill
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
63
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Posted - 2012.07.13 14:15:00 -
[98] - Quote
Aruken Marr wrote:Alphea Abbra wrote:Aruken Marr wrote:But their killboard's green. It was a moral victory. -A- can stick their green killboards up so far their behinds that only 18+ tonnes trucks can ever get it back. Anything else you'd want to know about -A- killboards? Do I detect some love loss between you guys and -A-? What happened? I live under a rock you see.
-A- left Nulli out to dry and now that Nulli have lost all their sov they're moving to faction warfare. |
Internet Lawyer Steve
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2012.07.13 14:43:00 -
[99] - Quote
Akirei Scytale wrote:Internet Lawyer Steve wrote: Typical response from an alliance that has always been someone elses pet.
Funny you say that about TEST's war. TEST invited the goons to join our war, not vice versa. Also, RE: the war in Delve, basically, the CFC yet again annihilated an enemy who was convinced we were bad at this game. It really is nice to have a reputation of being terrible, everyone underestimates you so consistently, and its so crushing to their morale to lose every major engagement against "terrible players".
Actually it was Pet Legions war. They batphoned you, then you called your masters because you didn't out number them 3-1.
Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,
Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time... |
Bolow Santosi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.07.13 14:48:00 -
[100] - Quote
I guess -A- showing up and dumping 800 people in system to defend a CSAA was a figment of their imagination. Not our problem they can't/won't form that number consistently. |
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Beckie DeLey
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
92
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Posted - 2012.07.13 15:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:You should listen to your enemies instead of your leaders.
Oh man. That SoCo FC has to be the most unpleasant person to ever play a videogame.
With these comms out there for everyone, how can people still think of the goons as the bad ones? I mean, come on. How pityful and devoid of any selfrespect does a person have to be to join a spaceship game only to fly under such ridiculous pieces of dregs like this Maka guy?
Keep up fighting the good fight, TEST and Goons, until you purged every one of these soulless fun-haters from the game. Kudos for actually having fun playing this game. You rock. It's The Legendary Extraordinary Me |
Renan Ruivo
Irmandade Vera Cruz Alliance
779
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Posted - 2012.07.13 15:43:00 -
[102] - Quote
Internet Lawyer Steve wrote:Due to the amount of time it took the goon and pets to clear Delve, its apparent that sov structures need more ehp or timers or switch back to the old sov mechanics.
Not really. It was a blend of SoCo not giving a **** about Sov and the CFC bringing the highest DPS ever applied to structure bashing.
Still not over though ... there's all of querious and period basis for them to take so the record is still in the air =) The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
knobber Jobbler
195
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Posted - 2012.07.13 15:49:00 -
[103] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:Aruken Marr wrote:But their killboard's green. It was a moral victory. -A- can stick their green killboards up so far their behinds that only 18+ tonnes trucks can ever get it back. Anything else you'd want to know about -A- killboards?
I'll give it to nulli, you guys at least fought back with some semblance of effort. Your allies on the other hand...treated you guys like a meat shield. Sadly nulli leaders don't see it like that, at least reading soco leadership chat logs. Best -A- can hope for is we get bored or they can entice solar to help them. There pet renters sure won't. |
Renan Ruivo
Irmandade Vera Cruz Alliance
779
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Posted - 2012.07.13 15:55:00 -
[104] - Quote
I'd love to hear from people criticizing alliances such as nulli and my own what they would do in our place. Really, being honest here. The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
177
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Posted - 2012.07.13 16:01:00 -
[105] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:I'd love to hear from people criticizing alliances such as nulli and my own what they would do in our place. Really, being honest here. Undock. |
Bolow Santosi
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.07.13 16:02:00 -
[106] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:I'd love to hear from people criticizing alliances such as nulli and my own what they would do in our place. Really, being honest here.
Don't get help from a bunch of delusional idiots who have no idea how to run an alliance or coalition. That would've been an excellent start. |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
179
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Posted - 2012.07.13 16:05:00 -
[107] - Quote
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:I'd love to hear from people criticizing alliances such as nulli and my own what they would do in our place. Really, being honest here. Undock.
Are you mad that they didnt ? |
Renan Ruivo
Irmandade Vera Cruz Alliance
779
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Posted - 2012.07.13 16:11:00 -
[108] - Quote
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:I'd love to hear from people criticizing alliances such as nulli and my own what they would do in our place. Really, being honest here. Undock.
Just did. The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Renan Ruivo
Irmandade Vera Cruz Alliance
779
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 16:14:00 -
[109] - Quote
Bolow Santosi wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:I'd love to hear from people criticizing alliances such as nulli and my own what they would do in our place. Really, being honest here. Don't get help from a bunch of delusional idiots who have no idea how to run an alliance or coalition. That would've been an excellent start.
So whose help would you try to get, if any?! The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Janeos
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.07.13 16:50:00 -
[110] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Bolow Santosi wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:I'd love to hear from people criticizing alliances such as nulli and my own what they would do in our place. Really, being honest here. Don't get help from a bunch of delusional idiots who have no idea how to run an alliance or coalition. That would've been an excellent start. So whose help would you try to get, if any?! You might want to ask the Wallpapers. They're hard as coffin nails. |
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Nex apparatu5
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
307
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Posted - 2012.07.13 16:51:00 -
[111] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Bolow Santosi wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:I'd love to hear from people criticizing alliances such as nulli and my own what they would do in our place. Really, being honest here. Don't get help from a bunch of delusional idiots who have no idea how to run an alliance or coalition. That would've been an excellent start. So whose help would you try to get, if any?!
The CFC offered to help you take -A- space to live in but stay neutral for ~gudfites~, but you guys wouldn't backstab -A- despite them being ****** allies because of e-honour
Edit: Also ******* Wallpapers are Spartans |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
808
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Posted - 2012.07.13 17:01:00 -
[112] - Quote
Serious respect to Wallpapers, we should just leave them their Sov. Why did you take my wings away? |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
177
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Posted - 2012.07.13 17:02:00 -
[113] - Quote
I realized my last post was a little flippant, for which I apologize. An honest question deserves an honest answer, and if it wasn't an honest question, well, you're getting an honest answer anyway. Nullsec wars aren't fought for (or won by) isk, sov, or killboards. It's about morale, prestige, and pride - hence the often hilariously minor slights that spark incredibly resilient blood feuds. As such, the loss of sov itself isn't a huge blow - sov, while nice, offers no overwhelming benefit, as any lowsec alliance will attest. The reason nullsec alliances hold sov is that holding sov is what nullsec alliances do. WIthout sov, you're not a true nullsec alliance, and therefore not important to nullsec politics. (There are exceptions, but I would think their rarity and notability would make it clear they prove the rule.)
The SoCo leaders accurately realized what this war wasn't about (sov), but completely failed to miss what it WAS about. Realizing their own willingness to commit and their relative numbers, they decided the war was unwinnable in terms of direct combat. I'm sure they know their own alliance better than me, so they were probably right. But their strategy of 'blueballing' and refusing to undock was complete folly. I'm frankly amazed they so completely misunderstood the CFC and HBC mindset to think that it was a good strategy.
Leaving aside the final stage of the plan (wait for the DelveJam forces to get bored and go home) hasn't taken place yet - which, I might add, I expect the SoCo leaders will be sorely disappointed in terms of northern bloody mindedness - they've already concede a huge victory for absolutely no reason. Some of you have pointed at the loss of morale from structure grinds, blue balls, and lack of any real fights. You completely missed the huge coup scored in terms of morale and prestige in protraying us as the unstoppable gods of the North, whose mere rumor of deployment causes a panicked retreat to NPC space, and who in a few short days rule the field.
You see why this would stoke our ego, right? Perhaps it's not completely true, but it's not difficult at all to mold the facts to fit this narrative, and that's effectively the same thing.
Which, if you pardon my digression, brings me back to my original post - you should have undocked. Not because I think you would have fought us off, I doubt you could succeed in that if your own leaders have already decided it was a pipe dream. But because through easy, cheap fleet compositions, you could have caused no small amount of annoyance - turning the unopposed steamroll into something closer to the much mocked ~wulfpax~ guerrilla war. T1 cruiser fleets are cheap and easily replaced, and have to be treated with as much caution by sieged dreads as a loki or tengu fleet. You could have easily run daily harrassment ops with these disposable fleets. You would lose MAYBE two billion isk for welping a drake fleet, and would have easily extended the war a week. A halfway decent commitment of supercapitals in low-risk situations, and it could have been a month, easily. An entire month where you lose nothing that line members could rat up in a few hours, commit to fights entirely on your own terms, and finangle the occasional hilariously painful welp. If you don't believe me, just look at the Wallrippers.
If your alliance leaders accepted that defeat was a foregone conclusion, why didn't they make it a Pyrrhic victory? Why didn't they boost member morale with active and ultimately painless resistance? Why did they let us win an overwhelming propaganda victory at practically no cost?
Moreover, there's the issues of coalition politics. When fighting a war where you had no stake in victory, the advantage was entirely on your side. You could have fostered cross-corp relationships - having your line members fly with ally FCs, and grow that valuable cult of personality that gets people to X up. You could have improved coalition communication. Heck, you practically had a practice war to breed a new crop of bloc FCs! And if you lost, well - throw out a billion isk in reimbursement, and remind everybody that you were never going to win anyway, so who gives a toss about a few dead omens, or hurricanes, or drakes, or whatever you got killed.
Meanwhile, on the other side, you gave us an easy, ego-boosting war to patch up any cracks that might have appeared between the CFC and the HBC. That, alone, is probably the most hilariously stupid thing your leaders did. You had a small, supposedly buried, but still not altogether forgetten rivalry between two powerful alliances, and you gave them an overwhelmingly successful joint campaign to patch it up over. Everybody is friendly when everything is going well. The old rivalry is all but forgotten. Shadoo has renewed and strengthened his cult of personality among the CFC line members. Countless newbie FCs have gotten to take out strategic fleets with their training wheels on, achieving victory and defeat with no long term consequences. Pay attention to the name of those newbie FCs, by the way. They'll be leading bloc-level fleets in the next major war.
So yeah, you stayed docked, gave us a huge propaganda victory that we can crow about for the next nine months, healed an old rivalry that threatened to one day destroy the bropact, and provided a training grounds for the future military leaders of the CFC and HBC coalitions, and ultimately gambled that we'll get bored and not give the space to competent allies. Next time, I would suggest undocking. |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
177
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Posted - 2012.07.13 17:09:00 -
[114] - Quote
PS I have asperger's. |
Caldari Acolyte
Perkone Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2012.07.13 17:09:00 -
[115] - Quote
Only thing happening here is the biggest example of game imbalance ever seen in Eveonline, one side controls all the TEC otherside dosen't, rest you be able to figure out. |
Aruken Marr
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
196
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Posted - 2012.07.13 17:12:00 -
[116] - Quote
Caldari Acolyte wrote:Only thing happening here is the biggest example of game imbalance ever seen in Eveonline, one side controls all the TEC otherside dosen't, rest you be able to figure out.
I'm not sure tech has a lot to do with it really. More like numbers and willingness to fight tbh. They wouldnt lose systems half as fast if they actually fought for them. |
KrakizBad
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
808
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Posted - 2012.07.13 17:25:00 -
[117] - Quote
Caldari Acolyte wrote:Only thing happening here is the biggest example of game imbalance ever seen in Eveonline, one side controls all the TEC otherside dosen't, rest you be able to figure out. Tech only incidentally mattered here when our enemies decided that their preferred combat ships for their line members were 500M each. Ours are 50. Why did you take my wings away? |
Renan Ruivo
Irmandade Vera Cruz Alliance
780
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Posted - 2012.07.13 17:39:00 -
[118] - Quote
Doctor Benway Kado wrote:Post.
So ok then. "Undock".
While i could grab more kill-mails and reference all the times that we did, in fact, undock, i have the feeling that it would be a better idea to ask for specific times and situations where you believe that we should have undocked but remained inside the station.
But still, asking what you would do in our place is not a question that i expect an answer to, because while you can be honest on your answer its oh so very difficult to be true. People can't really imagine themselves on another man's shoe because they rarely have all the relevant information that they need to pass true judgement.
What this means on this case is that undocking a ship just to whelp it is a lot easier when you are not broke. The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
178
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Posted - 2012.07.13 17:52:00 -
[119] - Quote
Hey, I'm drunk, lazy, and on vacation. Somebody link to the soundcloud of Mala refusing to undock his loki fleet for two hours while we burned down sov. Or the pos.jpeg from oh, July 9th. Or, you know, a dotlan map of Delve. Or the Day Five commander channel intel leak, about a half hour in IIRC.
The fact of the matter is, sov mechanics favor the defender, but I don't think we missed a single timer. You can try to spin it, you can ignore your own leaders' orders, you can demand that I prove a negative, but the fact remains. You guys, as a conscious strategic decision, decided to stay docked, and I think it was a bad decision. |
Doctor Benway Kado
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
178
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Posted - 2012.07.13 17:56:00 -
[120] - Quote
Also asking "Honest question, what would you do in our place" and then claiming that I can't tell you what I would have done in your place because I'm not you makes me think you weren't actually asking an honest question.
But maybe I wrong. Like I said, drunk, lazy, aspergers. |
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