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Matsumoto Yoshizu
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Posted - 2010.05.15 21:32:00 -
[1]
Back when I was a young and innocent newbie, I used to think you took damage when your ship collided with another. What's more, I thought this was cool as hell. In fact, I still do. I would assume that this is something that is possible to implement given that the mechanics for bumping already exist (although they are slightly dodgy at times).
Before I talk about how I envisage this working, I want to address the most obvious problem; how you deal with this in empire space. For High Security Space, I would say the most elegant solution is that when another ship is collided with, a check is made to see if it is a valid target - a wartarget, a corpmate, someone you have killrights for, or someone with aggression for whatever reason - and if they are not, the target is merely bumped as in the current system, with no damage occurring ("Your shipborne AI overrides your controls at the last second, narrowly avoiding disaster").
For Low Security Space, how this would be implemented is trickier; imagine a frigate accidentally bumping someone on a station undock and being insta-popped by sentry guns . I would suggest that ramming can only take place on grids that do not have sentry guns on them (assuming this is possible to implement), otherwise the same thing occurs as in hi-sec. However in a situation where ramming can occur, the ramming party receives GCC.
So how would this work? The last paragraph implies it is possible to distinguish between the rammer and the rammee. This is how I envisage things going:
- The ramming ship's speed must be over a certain threshhold (as a percentage of its maximum with a mwd active - I would suggest perhaps 50% but of course am open to suggestions) in order to trigger collision damage. This is to ensure that the majority of collisions are the result of genuine attempts to do so, avoiding the loss of 100 fleet bs when half of them fail to align when the FC tells them to.
- Damage would be inflicted to both parties, determined by: the speeds of both ships, the directions of travel of both ships and the masses of both ships. I think this is best illustrated through a few examples. First of all, lets say a frigate is moving at very slow speed (perhaps scrammed and webbed) and Machariel (a ship possessing both very high mass and high speed) bumps it from the rear (what parts of ships collide can be determined simply by looking at their direction of travel, and I think this would add a very cool tactical element to positioning your ship during combat) whilst moving at maximum speed with its MWD overloaded. The Machariel would suffer merely a blip on its shields, while the frigate would suffer huge damage (exploding in a huge ball of fire, out of which the Mach emerges, pilot grinning manically). Now imagine the same Machariel, this time with an identical ship coming straight at it, with them colliding head on, both moving at top speed. In this case, there isn't really a rammer and rammee, just two maniacs, who would both suffer equal damage. As they are both taking the blow from the front, the damage would not be so catastrophic. Indeed the raw amounts of damage that will be inflicted will be something that needs to be carefully balanced, however anyone whos ever tried to bump a moving ship at high speed (trying to stop someone burning back to a gate for example) knows it is rather tricky, so I feel this would not become the only way in which people tried to resolve combat! A final example; our trusty Mackrel is now sitting stationary, revelling in his glory. The frigate pilot returns in a brand new Merlin, ready to enact revenge. He overloads his MWD and rams straight into the rear of the Mach, and... explodes. Hence even with careful ship positioning and a well timed MWD burst, I believe an overwhelmingly larger ship opposing you should lead to rather spectacular failure.
To be continued...
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Matsumoto Yoshizu
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.05.15 21:48:00 -
[2]
What does this add to the game?
Firstly, it is undeniably cool, and I believe would be great fun, primarily for pvpers, but I'm sure the imaginative ratter will have fun with this too (patrolling hisec belts in a nano-cruiser, ramming the frigate rats to death perhaps).
Secondly, it adds another aspect to combat; another way in which fights can somehow be won leads to a whole family of tactics and strategies to develop, furthering enriching the gameplay experience, allowing more diversity in the way people play the game, and adding another way for highly skilled pilots to distinguish themselves.
In conclusion, I believe that whilst there are balance issues (is there any aspect of the game that is free from these?) I have laid out a way in which this can be implemented that adds to rather than detracts from the core gameplay, and I hope have convinced you that this would be a really fun thing to have in the game.
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El'Tar
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.05.15 21:52:00 -
[3]
excellent idea Matsumoto Yo****u ________________________________________________
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Matsumoto Yoshizu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.05.15 23:24:00 -
[4]
Supporting my own topic
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ThrashPower
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.05.15 23:52:00 -
[5]
tl,dr
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Kuso Tabeteshine
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Posted - 2010.05.15 23:58:00 -
[6]
Unfortunately, this will immediately get exploited for isk gain unless CCP introduces some type of real penalty for suicides.
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Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.16 00:02:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Elise Randolph on 16/05/2010 00:04:27 Not gonna lie, when I first started playing Eve I was convinced that ramming did damage - mostly because someone rammed me and shot me at the same time and I was too dumb to check logs.
I do like this idea, it's adds some tactical flair to the game where far too often people hit keep at range or orbit. And it's just cool. My only concern, apart from having like 40 people bump the same dude and instapop his ass (which can be eliminated rather trivially), are the hardware implications of it. With ships bumping against one another constantly, just randomly, the server may get stressed making the "are these bumps valid" computations. But if it turns out these computations are negligible, or can be implemented in such a way that crazy lag isn't created, then I'm all for it and it sounds pretty baller. --- Vote me for CSM. Low-sec? I got that. Delayed local? You know I got that. Industry love? Oh baby I'm gonna blow.
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Matsumoto Yoshizu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.05.16 00:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kuso Tabeteshine Unfortunately, this will immediately get exploited for isk gain unless CCP introduces some type of real penalty for suicides.
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're implying this will be used for suicide ganking, in which case I suggest you actually read the thread as I've addressed the hi-sec issue.
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Kuso Tabeteshine
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Posted - 2010.05.16 01:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Matsumoto Yo****u
Originally by: Kuso Tabeteshine Unfortunately, this will immediately get exploited for isk gain unless CCP introduces some type of real penalty for suicides.
If I'm understanding you correctly, you're implying this will be used for suicide ganking, in which case I suggest you actually read the thread as I've addressed the hi-sec issue.
Actually I did read it. You imply that what you proposed eliminates the possibility of an exploit, which is not the case. No matter, I actually like the idea of ramming, but I like it as a crazy last resort "kamikaze" style attack, which it can never become in Eve for obvious reasons.
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Matsumoto Yoshizu
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Posted - 2010.05.16 01:50:00 -
[10]
Well an exploit is possible with any game mechanic that is not thoroughly tested before being implemented on TQ. You could argue that no new mechanics should ever be added in that case
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.16 03:04:00 -
[11]
Too much computation, not enough useful game effect. I like combat mechanics as they are. Not supported.
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Matsumoto Yoshizu
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.05.16 20:13:00 -
[12]
How are you defining useful gameplay? As far as I'm concerned, anything that the majority of players will have fun with is useful.
With regards to computation, I disagree. There is already code running to determine if bumps occur - and lets face it they are reasonably rare. An additional check would be added here to see if the speed of the ships is over the threshold and, if they're in empire, whether they are "legally" able to collide. It is very unlikely that this will be the case, and so the real bulk of the calculations will rarely take place, making the additional strain on the server will be a lot lower than it seems at first glance.
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Suzi Starburst
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Posted - 2010.05.17 01:27:00 -
[13]
awesome idea
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Tellenta
Gallente Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 02:52:00 -
[14]
So no **** there I was in a fleet warp, as we were coming out of warp I smacked in to a corp mate sending him flying 50KM. Would this idea kill me because I was part of a fleet warp?
A group of capitals cyno in some where and play ping pong.
someone warps to their pos, their warp lands them on the pos what happens next?
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Matsumoto Yoshizu
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.05.17 09:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tellenta So no **** there I was in a fleet warp, as we were coming out of warp I smacked in to a corp mate sending him flying 50KM. Would this idea kill me because I was part of a fleet warp?
A group of capitals cyno in some where and play ping pong.
someone warps to their pos, their warp lands them on the pos what happens next?
Congratulations on not reading the thread. I understand its a good 2 minutes work, but maybe just don't bother commenting if you haven't read it?
I already clearly stated that one party in the collision should be moving at at least 50% of its maximum speed and have its MWD active, precisely to stop these kind of situations being a problem.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.05.17 09:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Too much computation, not enough useful game effect. I like combat mechanics as they are. Not supported.
This
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Mr Stark
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Posted - 2010.05.17 11:27:00 -
[17]
I dont much like the idea of ramming for damage in combat purey because to be fair if a ship rammed another ship that woudl realistically be suiciding your ship, or steamroling the other ship depending on ship sizes...
I do however hate the bumping mechanic due to it being a ridiculous tactic which really does ruin immersion due to its ludicrous nature.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.17 17:58:00 -
[18]
RAMMING SPEED... to get to the gate in the middle of a gate camp. Worse, ramming speed at the interceptor flying at me from the gate camp (which is usually directly in line with the gate so if I miss I just jump the gate).
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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