Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Chug Robitussin
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:38:00 -
[1]
I was thinking about training up for a Paladin, but I am begining to wonder how useful it will be after the new build to be able to loot and salvage when there is far less loot and salvage. It seems that the ship will still be a good ship, but it might not have the apeal that it used to have. Maybe it will make their prices drop even more? For those of you that fly Paladins, do you still plan to use them as much, or slide over into Nightmares?
|
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:48:00 -
[2]
It's hard to say until I see exactly how the loot tables changed. If I make more blitzing with a Nightmare, I'll do that. If I make more with the loot factored, I'll do that. I expect Marauders to be mostly obsolete.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Randon Alt67
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:51:00 -
[3]
From my understanding the Meta 0 item drop rates are getting nerfed, but not the Meta 1+ items. Plus salvage does make some money, so maybe just focus on the BC and BS wrecks and leave the smaller stuff alone?
|
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Randon Alt67 From my understanding the Meta 0 item drop rates are getting nerfed, but not the Meta 1+ items. Plus salvage does make some money, so maybe just focus on the BC and BS wrecks and leave the smaller stuff alone?
Salvage makes *some* money, but not enough to justify the decision of a marauder over a faction BS. Also, the majority of money *I* make from loot comes from meta 0 guns and meta 4 PVP modules (pretty rare, and I usually keep them for myself anyway).
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Drek Grapper
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:56:00 -
[5]
I very much doubt they would indirectly nerf Marauders like that. Aren't they just changing drop values of low value items so mission runners don't impact mining so much by refining loots? |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 16:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Drek Grapper I very much doubt they would indirectly nerf Marauders like that. Aren't they just changing drop values of low value items so mission runners don't impact mining so much by refining loots?
Go take a look at the market cost of a meta 0 artillery vs a meta 2 or meta 3 artillery. This extends to all modules, but is especially noticeable around guns.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 17:08:00 -
[7]
personally i plan to use a faction bs to kill every thing and zoom around in a frig post mission to salvage the bs wrecks and if its got something good in it grab it
|
Seriously Bored
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 17:20:00 -
[8]
Originally by: demonfurbie personally i plan to use a faction bs to kill every thing and zoom around in a frig post mission to salvage the bs wrecks and if its got something good in it grab it
Eh...if you come back to the mission area at all, you were better off taking the Marauder in the first place.
But to the topic: I love my Vargur, but it is completely dependent on what those Meta 0 drops get replaced to determine whether it's more efficient than the Mach overall any more.
I recall reading a dev response that they can't completely remove them from the loot table, that it requires being replaced with something. There's been little to no word on what that something would be other than "scrap and tags."
Oh well. I'll dust off my Mach if I need to.
|
Dimitrios Ypsilanti
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 17:30:00 -
[9]
Wait, this is news to me. Can someone back up and explain?
Loot drops are getting nerfed to the point that people expect that looting and salvaging will become nearly worthless?
This, in turn, is expected to reduce the value of marauders?
Is this for missions? Rats? Plexes? Everything?
Why is CCP doing this?
Thanks
|
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 17:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dimitrios Ypsilanti Wait, this is news to me. Can someone back up and explain?
Loot drops are getting nerfed to the point that people expect that looting and salvaging will become nearly worthless?
This, in turn, is expected to reduce the value of marauders?
Is this for missions? Rats? Plexes? Everything?
Why is CCP doing this?
Thanks
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=746
Originally by: CCP
We identified a core set of loot tables which are responsible for contributing to the majority of the NPC loot sourced minerals and these are the first ones we want to adjust with Tyrannis, reducing the quantity of the Tech 0 items being dropped and substituting it with a variation of scrap metals or tags, for example. There will still be the same amount of Tech 1 meta 1-4 modules being dropped and these will still act as mineral faucets if you desire a source of minerals still from NPC combat.
Whilst this will reduce one of the secondary incomes from NPC combat initially, this is weighted against all the potential rewards of NPC combat activity. With less overall mineral supply, the lower quantity of minerals still possible from loot reprocessing will eventually be worth more.
The question is by how much they are reduced and what they are replaced with. Also, salvaging is already a waste of time.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
|
demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 15:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Seriously Bored
Originally by: demonfurbie personally i plan to use a faction bs to kill every thing and zoom around in a frig post mission to salvage the bs wrecks and if its got something good in it grab it
Eh...if you come back to the mission area at all, you were better off taking the Marauder in the first place.
But to the topic: I love my Vargur, but it is completely dependent on what those Meta 0 drops get replaced to determine whether it's more efficient than the Mach overall any more.
I recall reading a dev response that they can't completely remove them from the loot table, that it requires being replaced with something. There's been little to no word on what that something would be other than "scrap and tags."
Oh well. I'll dust off my Mach if I need to.
only one i can fly is a kronos and its vs angels so yea im a little better off killing in the mach and coming back to pick if i want
|
BrundleMeth
Caldari Temporal Mechanics
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 16:18:00 -
[12]
Edited by: BrundleMeth on 19/05/2010 16:18:41 Well if the Mauauder becomes worthless maybe I can buy another one for 50 Million. Then use it to gank 3 day old players in their frigates...
Dictionary says:
ma+raud ūverb (used without object) To roam or go around in quest of plunder; make a raid for booty...
Booty = Picking up chicks. I can use my Golem like the bar hopping yuppies use their Porche's...
|
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 16:26:00 -
[13]
Useless? nay, i shall be having fun using mine in null sec anamolies and plexes!!
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
NoNah
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 16:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: BrundleMeth Edited by: BrundleMeth on 19/05/2010 16:18:41 Well if the Mauauder becomes worthless maybe I can buy another one for 50 Million. Then use it to gank 3 day old players in their frigates...
Dictionary says:
ma+raud ūverb (used without object) To roam or go around in quest of plunder; make a raid for booty...
Booty = Picking up chicks. I can use my Golem like the bar hopping yuppies use their Porche's...
Manufacturing cost of t2 ships has nothing to do with how good they are. Golem and vargur will still be better than their counterparts - as there are no counterparts.
Nightmare will probably be better than paladin, all depending on the specifics of the nerf. Kronos will be even worse, but hey, that doesn't really count as a marauder anyway, does it? Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 972315
|
Kuranei
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 16:54:00 -
[15]
As a maruader manufacturer i can tell you the only way the price drops will be if the elements to make it drop. Also realize that there is a limited supply or I should say restricted supply of those faction bs since they are built from dropped or bought bpcs and not invented. the outcome alone would almost double the prices of the faction bs. so imagine instead of paying 500-600mil for a faction bs to 1-2bil for one. which one would be worth it then ? is the dps of a faction bs that much higher ?
|
Dimitrios Ypsilanti
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 18:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Liang Nuren http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=746
Confirming that the loot drops in missions on Sisi have gone to crap.
I don't know what this will do the the value of marauders though. I only picked up the tech 1 loot to pound it into ammo anyway.
|
Aineko Stryer
Minmatar Aineko Accelerando Labs
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 18:42:00 -
[17]
I think predictions about mission value, as well as T2 production prices, are VERY hard to make for Tyrannis.
With PI interfering into T2 production and tag replacement for meta 1 drops.
Prices for T2 ship production might drop a lot, if enough players spend time to produce parts, also insurance changes may have some impact.
So we may end up with slightly less ISKies from missions (not bad imo), but drastically cheaper Marauders....
|
Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Silvermane Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 19:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kuranei As a maruader manufacturer i can tell you the only way the price drops will be if the elements to make it drop. Also realize that there is a limited supply or I should say restricted supply of those faction bs since they are built from dropped or bought bpcs and not invented. the outcome alone would almost double the prices of the faction bs. so imagine instead of paying 500-600mil for a faction bs to 1-2bil for one. which one would be worth it then ? is the dps of a faction bs that much higher ?
You fail to realize that for most PvE purposes, the cost of the ship hull is irrelevant as you shouldn't be exploding anyway. If you were discussing, say, faction mods, then it would matter (as above X amount, ship Y is worth ganking even though it takes Z suicide gankers).
Regarding high-sec mining:
Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr 3-4 million ISK/hr is perhaps .15 0r .20 US$/hr; not quite prison wages and you are around less honest people.
|
Amras Arnatuile
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 21:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Randon Alt67 From my understanding the Meta 0 item drop rates are getting nerfed, but not the Meta 1+ items. Plus salvage does make some money, so maybe just focus on the BC and BS wrecks and leave the smaller stuff alone?
Salvage makes *some* money, but not enough to justify the decision of a marauder over a faction BS. Also, the majority of money *I* make from loot comes from meta 0 guns and meta 4 PVP modules (pretty rare, and I usually keep them for myself anyway).
-Liang
True salvage doesnt make as much money as it used to..Take a look at maruaders though. The Cruise Golem for example does more DPS than the CNR without expending as many missiles and it tanks like a god...savings in missiles being used and the not needing mission specific hardners. Is that not enough justification to keep using marauders?
|
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 21:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Amras Arnatuile True salvage doesnt make as much money as it used to..Take a look at maruaders though. The Cruise Golem for example does more DPS than the CNR without expending as many missiles and it tanks like a god...savings in missiles being used and the not needing mission specific hardners. Is that not enough justification to keep using marauders?
First, I am 100% aware of how and when to use a Marauder. You might say that I wrote a book or two on it. At any rate, the Cruise Golem *does not* deal more DPS than a cruise CNR, and the savings in missiles isn't enough to offset the mission completion time the DPS saves. The Torp Golem does more damage than a cruise CNR, but it's really only better in some missions. AND that's only one of the marauders being conditionally better than the faction BS. I probably won't use my Golem after the change if it's anywhere near as strong as it sounds.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
|
Headerman
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 11:20:00 -
[21]
I find it annoying that the description of a marauder is for 'extended front line deployments'... and they have salvage bonuses? makes little sense. Should be shield/armour resist increases or shield/armour amount per level
|
Von Kapiche
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 11:32:00 -
[22]
Hm, someone bought up a lot of faction hulls, eh? :)
As a serious question; how much faster *is* a Nightmare than a Paladin on suitable rat types? having flown a Mach for months I'm a little underwhelmed by the NM which was a stepping stone to a Paladin ( and incidentally Golem ), but if it's 20% faster than a Paladin I won't bother. 5% though, I'll take the extra armour plates instead.
|
Chakarr
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 12:18:00 -
[23]
As someone who only recently finished training for his shiny new Vargur I can honestly say 'meh'...
Compared to killing and looting in a regular BS ie Mael (haven't flown caldari or any faction ships so i can't comment) I am having a blast blitzing missions and selectivly looting/salvaging, I sell/keep anything meta 4 that's usefull and melt the rest to fuel some sideline manufacturing of ammo and ships(no I don't see these minerals as free for sales purposes before someone jumps on that wagon)- reduction of meta 0 loot is a bummer maybe, but I agree with CCP that mining should be the main source of minerals anyway.
It's not just salvage and loot, what about those missions where you have to retrieve a can, no probs I have 40k tractors...what about rampant ammo usage? I for one like using and carrying less regardless of optimum costs vs savings blah blah...bigger cargo hold, faster overall speed with afterburner, better basic resists means less modules on tank and more on gank (eg tracking comp)...With the coming chanes Faction my well be better if you like playing Spreadsheet Online, but I just like blowing stuff up in my marauder because IT's COOL
|
knobber Jobbler
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 12:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I probably won't use my Golem after the change if it's anywhere near as strong as it sounds.
-Liang
I sold mine ages ago. Spent ages training for it to discover its actually not very good. The step up from faction BS to Marauder is minimal but the training time needed to get there is massive.
The only good thing going for the Golem was that tractor bonus. Marauders needs a serious work over from CCP. More so than command ships.
|
NoNah
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 12:51:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Chakarr As someone who only recently finished training for his shiny new Vargur I can honestly say 'meh'...
Compared to killing and looting in a regular BS ie Mael (haven't flown caldari or any faction ships so i can't comment) I am having a blast blitzing missions and selectivly looting/salvaging, I sell/keep anything meta 4 that's usefull and melt the rest to fuel some sideline manufacturing of ammo and ships(no I don't see these minerals as free for sales purposes before someone jumps on that wagon)- reduction of meta 0 loot is a bummer maybe, but I agree with CCP that mining should be the main source of minerals anyway.
It's not just salvage and loot, what about those missions where you have to retrieve a can, no probs I have 40k tractors...what about rampant ammo usage? I for one like using and carrying less regardless of optimum costs vs savings blah blah...bigger cargo hold, faster overall speed with afterburner, better basic resists means less modules on tank and more on gank (eg tracking comp)...With the coming chanes Faction my well be better if you like playing Spreadsheet Online, but I just like blowing stuff up in my marauder because IT's COOL
And I think the bellicose is a cool level 4 missionrunner, I don't care if it's slow, so they might aswell remove all the damage bonuses on marauders and then nerf them for real.
Though if we leave irrational fondness and inexperience aside, if loot is bad enough to not have any real impact on missionincome(IIRC it is less than 20% combined, by some margin) the Machariel and Nightmare will be noticably better, the CNR very close to tied(on either side of it depending on agent). Kronos won't be affected very much of course as it's already subpar both the vindicator and dominix. It has nothing to do with what I fly, or enjoy to fly, it's about the balance of things. Having ships that are good for nothing, just makes the game worse. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 209890
|
Jizaburo Ozawa
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 14:45:00 -
[26]
Good thing i heard about this now. I was getting ready to shift over to a marauder training block but after hearing this i'm just gonna keep using my normal selection of ships and blitz them.
|
Seishi Maru
Organization for Nuclear Research
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 15:24:00 -
[27]
So what ccp replaced that loot for? In the blog they said they gonna replace it.
Or CCP really made it again and DESTROYED content of their game because their game designers are completely unable to look beyond the TINY scope of their own projects adn see how they will reflect on other parts of game?
|
NoNah
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 15:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Seishi Maru So what ccp replaced that loot for? In the blog they said they gonna replace it.
Or CCP really made it again and DESTROYED content of their game because their game designers are completely unable to look beyond the TINY scope of their own projects adn see how they will reflect on other parts of game?
Probably meta 1-4 loot. Either way it's somewhat irrelevant, meta 0 was a huge part in making missions as bad as they've been. This will with insurance fix quite alot. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 224546
|
Chakarr
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 16:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: NoNah
And I think the bellicose is a cool level 4 missionrunner, I don't care if it's slow, so they might aswell remove all the damage bonuses on marauders and then nerf them for real.
Though if we leave irrational fondness and inexperience aside, if loot is bad enough to not have any real impact on missionincome(IIRC it is less than 20% combined, by some margin) the Machariel and Nightmare will be noticably better, the CNR very close to tied(on either side of it depending on agent). Kronos won't be affected very much of course as it's already subpar both the vindicator and dominix. It has nothing to do with what I fly, or enjoy to fly, it's about the balance of things. Having ships that are good for nothing, just makes the game worse.
Have fun in your Bellicose, although I cannot see the relevence...?
The Vargur is pretty much second only in killing speed to a PIRATE faction BS for missions in minny space (ie angels) so I was hardly advocating the "I don't care it's slow but but I find it fun" philosophy nor was I displaying any irrational fondness of a subpar ship.
I was saying that it's plenty fast enough for me compared to anything else in the minny lineup, and I would rather loot and salvage than just kill and leave, I still pretty much blitz the mission for bounties and LPs and treat the loot and salvage as a bonus anyway - if I haven't tractored it in and/or salvaged it by the time I've killed everything then it stays there. Also makes faction missions a hell of a lot quicker by letting me collect tags as I go (I don't give a toss about my Amarr standings and someones got to run faction missions or where would all the tags come from? lol). Also, skillwise the Varg isn't much different for a Mach, if we are comparing optimal setups you will need pretty much the same skills to notice the mission completion time difference.
The Pirate faction ships might well be 'faster' if your really into maxing your isk/hr but really I can't be bothered - I make a good enough living from level 4s and the loot & salavge I manufacture with provides a welcome distraction from the grind, I *could* cross train into Gal and fly a Mac but a) I don't want to train Gal ships as the rest of the lineup is uninteresting to me, plus I am trying to keep this character pure minny, and b) is that extra 10/20% income really worth worrying about? (I really have no inclination to play time-myself-with-a-stop-watch-and-do-some-spreadsheets-to-arrive-at-a-theoretical-isk/hr-number-online). I don't know but for me that kind of min/maxing takes it from being a game and turns into a virtual job, I have a complex RL job in manufacturing which is all about min/maxing - I have no interest in applying that level of analysis to a game - for me that would stop making it fun.
So I am all for balancing ships, but I don't think reducing the meta 0 loot - especially if they replace it with something, suddenly makes marauders especially the Vargur 'good for nothing' (admitidly the Kronos does seem subpar) - it's still the *best* mission runner for a minny skilled a character without cross training...
|
Drek Grapper
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.05.20 17:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Drek Grapper I very much doubt they would indirectly nerf Marauders like that. Aren't they just changing drop values of low value items so mission runners don't impact mining so much by refining loots?
Go take a look at the market cost of a meta 0 artillery vs a meta 2 or meta 3 artillery. This extends to all modules, but is especially noticeable around guns.
-Liang
I see what you mean...i didn't realise the gravity of the 'reducing the quantity of the Tech 0 items being dropped' statement and also not realising how much isk i actually rake in from Meta 0 loots (been taking note the last few days).
Originally by: NoNah
Probably meta 1-4 loot. Either way it's somewhat irrelevant, meta 0 was a huge part in making missions as bad as they've been. This will with insurance fix quite alot.
Making missions 'bad' in what way? Am i missing something...? Bad for the 'game' or bad for mission runners...whats it gonna fix?
After reading this thread i actually went out and bought a Mach ( i needed an excuse to push me over the edge anyways ) but actually i'm hoping it's still going to be vialble to use Maruaders after the patch cos they frikken great! -- "If itĘs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IĘd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |