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BC Tank
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:02:00 -
[1]
Fuel for using a cloak on your ship does this sound insane? well fear not as it probably wasn't thought up by me and infact i think i heard it from someone else.
The reason for the post as some of u might have guessed is, having a hostile in your null security system or systems AFK'ing 24 hours aday cloaked for many weeks on end.
How can u get rid of them? how do u know when there active to try to get rid of them - its a ghey tactic and the friends of the cloaker should have sommin to say about it to - cant have killboard stats without isk right?
If i can fly out to a hostile region with 8 hours of cloaking fuel and covert cyno in a team and rip apart a ratting carrier then fine, but why would i try that over a 6 week period if it cost me the logistics and isk to do so?
Im not proposing that fuel for cloaking use is the answer but at the way it stands the above problem is a problem for us all.
What i want to do with this post is inform CCP that this game mechanic isnt worth the title game play, at some point it need to change for a more challenging option.
Please vote for the damn fuel option :)
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King Gore
Sword and Pistol
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:07:00 -
[2]
Originally by: BC Tank ..systems AFK'ing 24 hours..
Good idea, but no. You would have to have a fuel bay for that because you would be gimping transport ships.
What would your fuel be? Ice products?
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Khanoonian Singh
Ramshackle Industrial
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:09:00 -
[3]
Are you really that afraid of an afk cloaker? You have no home defense or operations security set up?
Here is a fix- remove local, then you won't have to see the scary AFK cloaker.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb Nostradamus Effect
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:09:00 -
[4]
lol no
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Psiri
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:19:00 -
[5]
IMO there should be scanners that you could deploy at a POS in a system with enough sov. The scan should take a fairly long time (around an hour) but be able to locate cloaked ships in the system that haven't moved during the duration of the scan.
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Laboratory Technician
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Khanoonian Singh Here is a fix- remove local, then you won't have to see the scary AFK cloaker.
this
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AFK Cloaker
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:24:00 -
[7]
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o0TuNa0o
The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:29:00 -
[8]
made me chuckle..
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K'racker
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
you just made the op crap his pants.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:00:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/05/2010 16:00:36 How often do you need to see that until it even for you isnt funny anymore?
Anyway risk vs reward, outside a pos/station in 0.0 shouldnt be risk free. (And lol @ defence operation vs afk cloaker, you got sit 23/7 staring into space because someone might not be afk? No you just go run lvl 4 missions then).
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Every time I see this, I giggle. --Vel
Originally by: Jiseinoku
Mining is the path to enlightement.
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CanIHave YourStuff
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:02:00 -
[12]
I think this would be better put in Features and Ideas. Ships and Modules is really for discussion within current mechanics.
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CyberRaver
Silentium Mortalitas
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/05/2010 16:00:36 How often do you need to see that until it even for you isnt funny anymore?
Anyway risk vs reward, outside a pos/station in 0.0 shouldnt be risk free. (And lol @ defence operation vs afk cloaker, you got sit 23/7 staring into space because someone might not be afk? No you just go run lvl 4 missions then).
Haii furb, afk cloakers used to worry us in the past, now we just fly together and stick as a team, think we do quite well at it now :D 1 afk cloaker is very rarely a match for a number of pilots even ratting ones
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/05/2010 16:00:36 How often do you need to see that until it even for you isnt funny anymore?
Anyway risk vs reward, outside a pos/station in 0.0 shouldnt be risk free. (And lol @ defence operation vs afk cloaker, you got sit 23/7 staring into space because someone might not be afk? No you just go run lvl 4 missions then).
You can go AFK too... But for some reason that won't scare the cloaker away! ___
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MWDrive
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Khanoonian Singh Are you really that afraid of an afk cloaker? You have no home defense or operations security set up?
Here is a fix- remove local, then you won't have to see the scary AFK cloaker.
Having local or removing it is another topic. Problem here is mechanics which allows you to be invulnerable 23/7 in hostile space. I don't mind AFK cloakers, just go rat in system next door, but that doesn't mean mechanics isn't broken. |
Entragian Delmar
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
This, sir, is full of win.
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Belkadan
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:30:00 -
[17]
Wouldn't change anything. If someone is afk cloaking in a system, it wouldn't take much effort to either:
a)Leave for a while to get more fuel b)Get a transport to anchor a can full of fuel in a SS for the cloaky
But, the problem isn't the afk cloakers, it's the stupid ppl whining about it.
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ImAPostingAlt
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Laboratory Technician
Originally by: Khanoonian Singh Here is a fix- remove local, then you won't have to see the scary AFK cloaker.
this
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:39:00 -
[19]
Yet another weak minded 0.0 fool.
You and your ilk should be banished to empire.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:45:00 -
[20]
Instead of fuel, which would be tedious to manage, give the cloak its own capacitor. A non-afk pilot can turn off the cloak during warp to allow the capacitor to recharge, thus allowing for a "permanent" cloak, but only for actively playing pilots and/or macros.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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General Paul
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:46:00 -
[21]
Edited by: General Paul on 25/05/2010 16:47:02 A go between would be to have a cloak cost capacitor, as obviously makeing a ship dissapear is hard to do.
For normal ships like ravens it should be possible to stay cap stable useing capacitor mods, for covert ships or cloaky haulers the cap usage should be bonused so as to be neglidgeable.
It wouldn't stop cloaky folk really, just make it a touch more realistic and tactical on larger ships or none role specific ones.
edit:(seems I was one minute late, I agree with him) ^^
And this def belongs in the ideas forum.
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Jig ofSaw
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:00:00 -
[22]
you know it isnt the afk cloaker you need to worry about
its the ak unscannable loki with a cyno and gang warfare links you need to worry about
because hes sitting somewhere uncloaked and you cnat scan him yet you cna see that 70% sig lock that never gets any higher
because he is gonna cyno in some big ships at downtime when you dont have the time to scan him down
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Gavin Neltharek
Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:00:00 -
[23]
Would be nice to add a POS module that forces de-ckloaks every so often. Maybe once an hour it consumes a set amount of CPU fuel and de-cloakss all ships in system for 30 seconds. <----------------------------------> Carebears aren't people, they're giant flying piniatas.
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Necrobunny
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:13:00 -
[24]
So you would have to refuel your cloak but not your ship? The only way I could see something like this working is if you had to fuel ships and cloaks used some of that fuel. Still a bad idea though.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:23:00 -
[25]
You should call in 1000 of your BFF to camp that filfty scumback who has nothing better to do dissrupt you daily business
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Entragian Delmar
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:30:00 -
[26]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Instead of fuel, which would be tedious to manage, give the cloak its own capacitor. A non-afk pilot can turn off the cloak during warp to allow the capacitor to recharge, thus allowing for a "permanent" cloak, but only for actively playing pilots and/or macros.
Now THIS would be an interesting implementation/change to the mechanics of cloaking... except the non-afk pilot would not have to turn off the cloak to recharge the capacitor, but simply warp while cloak to recharge.
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BC Tank
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:33:00 -
[27]
and this is again why i dont post here.
Some stupid people out there 4 real.
If u READ the post u shall see it isnt about your grandma's new tomato plant but somthing that is broke in eve.
forgive me god i replied to an eve online post, please show me the way of my errors.
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Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:40:00 -
[28]
Originally by: BC Tank and this is again why i dont post here.
Some stupid people out there 4 real.
If u READ the post u shall see it isnt about your grandma's new tomato plant but somthing that is broke in eve.
forgive me god i replied to an eve online post, please show me the way of my errors.
What is "broken" in eve? What that someone can sit cloaked for extended periods of time and you have no way of tracking them down? Sorry, that's the purpose of the cloak and things seem to be working as normal. Just because you view a module or mechanic being broken in no way means that CCP feels the same.
Honestly, I just don't see what the worry is about a lone cloaked ship in local. Really, what is this a threat to?
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Omir Kajil
Gallente The POD Collective
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:43:00 -
[29]
If a cloaking device were to require fuel, would it be viable to have the fuel be like "ammo" that you load into the cloaking device? Something that takes up very little space, has a slow cycle, but of course you'd have to decloak for a bit while reloading. I have no clue what such a charge would be called though. But I digress. This one time at fat camp, i was flying a dominix, and then I was so hungry that i ate 3 planets and collapsed into a black hole, which ate my sig. |
Muad' Dib
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:44:00 -
[30]
Originally by: BC Tank and this is again why i dont post here.
Some stupid people out there 4 real.
If u READ the post u shall see it isnt about your grandma's new tomato plant but somthing that is broke in eve.
forgive me god i replied to an eve online post, please show me the way of my errors.
You should ask forgiveness for starting the thread. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market ! |
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.25 19:19:00 -
[31]
Originally by: BC Tank and this is again why i dont post here.
Some stupid people out there 4 real.
If u READ the post u shall see it isnt about your grandma's new tomato plant but somthing that is broke in eve.
forgive me god i replied to an eve online post, please show me the way of my errors.
If you think that something is broke in EVE why don`t you mention the broken fact you can blue as much ppl you like ?
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.05.25 19:19:00 -
[32]
sage ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.25 19:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: BC Tank Fuel for using a cloak on your ship does this sound insane? well fear not as it probably wasn't thought up by me and infact i think i heard it from someone else.
The reason for the post as some of u might have guessed is, having a hostile in your null security system or systems AFK'ing 24 hours aday cloaked for many weeks on end.
How can u get rid of them? how do u know when there active to try to get rid of them - its a ghey tactic and the friends of the cloaker should have sommin to say about it to - cant have killboard stats without isk right?
If i can fly out to a hostile region with 8 hours of cloaking fuel and covert cyno in a team and rip apart a ratting carrier then fine, but why would i try that over a 6 week period if it cost me the logistics and isk to do so?
Im not proposing that fuel for cloaking use is the answer but at the way it stands the above problem is a problem for us all.
What i want to do with this post is inform CCP that this game mechanic isnt worth the title game play, at some point it need to change for a more challenging option.
Please vote for the damn fuel option :)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Drew Jerac
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Posted - 2010.05.25 19:58:00 -
[34]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
I have to say that made me laugh pretty damn hard.
Seriously though I can't see why a cloak ship should need fuel, if local didn't exsist you would go about your business (and there would be no afk cloaker either for that matter but thats neither here nor there) just ignoring them is a safe bet, but keeping an eye open for sudden local spikes and keeping aligned at speed do whatever your doing jobs a good'un. ----------
Where can you end up with just 5,000isk and the Market Interface? I have no idea but I intend to find out: Drew Jerac's Log |
Capt 0bvious
Adaptes Astartes
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Posted - 2010.05.25 20:49:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Capt 0bvious on 25/05/2010 20:48:44 Has this got to do with the nightmare and CNR you guys just lost to a covop fleet?
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Kellyl
Gallente Terminal Impact On the Rocks
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Posted - 2010.05.25 20:51:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Terianna Eri sage
sage goes in all fields.
Also, op needs to not say "u" so much, or "ghey". This isn't runescape.
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2010.05.25 23:48:00 -
[37]
Originally by: BC Tank Im not proposing that fuel for cloaking use is the answer but at the way it stands the above problem is a problem for us all.
No, it isn't a problem for us all. It is a problem for you. Don't presume to speak for me.
kthyxbyecanihazyourstuffz
-- Nah, that's just my Asperger's kickin' in.
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Corina Jarr
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Posted - 2010.05.26 00:23:00 -
[38]
I don't get why people always come up with strange "solutions" to the AFK cloak "problem".
Here's my solution (and its only to silence the whiners): 1) have a timer record input from the user 2) after an amount of time of no input (1 hr for example) a pop-up comes on screen saying something along the lines of "Unless you hit ok, your session will close in 5 minutes" 3) if the person is really online, they hit ok 4) if they are afk, the session ends
This not only solves the afk cloak "problem" but also removes all afk folks (after the time picked by CCP) thus lowering the load on the server (and in places like Jita, this could help a lot potentially).
If anyone actualy cares enough about this issue, feel free to suggest my idea. I don't care.
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Jon D'Agrvainio
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Posted - 2010.05.26 01:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: BC Tank its a ghey tactic
It's true, I've actually watched the tactical concept of AFK Cloaking participate in sexual interaction with other tactical concepts of the same gender.
Seriously, though, this is a terrible idea, ill thought out by the OP. If you actually want to make a presentation that is in many way meaningful, perhaps you should put together an idea that isn't driven by your tears of frustration.
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.05.26 10:42:00 -
[40]
if hes in a SB you understand you can kill him in 1 hit. 600 damage kills an SB. If its a recon, an hes alone, don't rat on your own. 0.0 is meant to be risky remember =).
Besides speaking as a scout type myself, we love to sit idle for this reason, because we know it winds you up hehe
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar Nex Exercitus IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.26 12:41:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Thercon Jair on 26/05/2010 12:42:43
Originally by: Zill if hes in a SB you understand you can kill him in 1 hit. 600 damage kills an SB. If its a recon, an hes alone, don't rat on your own. 0.0 is meant to be risky remember =).
Besides speaking as a scout type myself, we love to sit idle for this reason, because we know it winds you up hehe
See, it's meant to be risky. So, why remove the risk for one party will fully bearing on the other party?
I don't think the fuel idea is a good/best idea.
I rather thought about killing cap recharge while the ship is cloaked (which would play into the "need to reduce energy signature as part of the cloaking process. You can't have mods active while cloaked, can you? ;) ). Cloaks do use cap, but it could be ballanced between the different tiers so ships can stay cloaked for different amounts of times. Covert Ops ships would be hit less by that malus, of course, as they are specialised ships.
If your cap runs out you have to recharge it again before you can stay cloaked for any lengthy amount of time. If the residents are actively looking for you, you need to warp around between safespots, consuming part of the cap you want to recharge for your cloak, giving the other party more time to actually catch you, while still making it hard to be catched.
Eve is all about ballance, and, there currently is no ballance in the cloaking tactics, as they all favour the cloaker.
I do think it needs a change because nowaday, you even have covert cynos which can be lit under cyno jammers, and which can be used almost risk free. Just put some alt in there in a cloaker with a covert cyno, come back every couple hours and you are guaranteed a target for no risk/real work at all, i.e, it's like macroing, just that you don't need a macro for staying cloaked. ;) Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Midnight Firestarter
Anger Management
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Posted - 2010.05.26 12:46:00 -
[42]
Cloakers need to cloak and stay cloaked .... everything else shouldn't be able to fit them ....
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13Child
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Posted - 2010.05.26 12:48:00 -
[43]
Originally by: BC Tank If i can fly out to a hostile region with 8 hours of cloaking fuel and covert cyno in a team and rip apart a ratting carrier then fine, but why would i try that over a 6 week period if it cost me the logistics and isk to do so?)
Ratting in a carrier deserves to die a horrible embarrasing death!
Cloaking is fun!
In all seriousness how would a fuel requirment work, would there be a requirment for the module activating? What fuel would it use?
no one likes logistics when there roving about, let alone having to refuel there scout every 10jumps. You could make the cloak require cap useage, but then if you wanted to afk cloak-pi55 off carebear locals with an alt, then you'd just fit a cap stable cloaker, and would gimp proper useable setups, which are already meh (cheetah).
This is basically just a terrible idea - repeated over and over everytime some carebear gets upset cos a scout sits in system waiting for said carebear nub to get impatient and go ratting and then promptly gets ganked by Cool cloaky guys friends! blah blah blah
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.05.26 13:08:00 -
[44]
The risk for us, is as an SB pilot, I have ZERO tank. I die so fast its unbelievable =). As a "spy" cov ops recons or other cov ops ships are "sometimes" unarmed so of no risk to you. It's "your" decision whether to get jittery over it or not.
I went to NOL last week for giggles an to see if I could get in system. My SB died because I was afk an "unlucky" when I went afk to near a gate an a group of ships came to close to me.
It's risky to any cov ops pilot, an forcing them to use fuel or cap charge to stay cloaked, kind of defeats the reason for flying a thin as paper ship.
What happens to the recon birds that sit in system waiting for a fleet to form before he lites off, if hes gotta sit for an hour or 2 an risk dieing before he even cynos, because he runs out of cap or fuel.
As for an SB, would be completely unrealistic (as far as internet spaceships go). TO carry fuel since we can carry maybe 200 torps an 3 bombs. In a ship the size of a frig you want us to carry fuel too ? =)
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FT Diomedes
Gallente The Fimbriani Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.05.26 13:28:00 -
[45]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Still one of the funniest things on these forums! --- This doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
ArkAngel666
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:29:00 -
[46]
I agreed with the whole "It's just one guy in a cloaky ship, just call your friends if he shows up" argument up until the good folks at CCP brought us the black op's hot drop. Now that 1 afk cloaker can turn in to a 40 man fleet of pain in about 6 seconds. Just park a afk cloaker in system. Once he's there for a day and everyone starts to do what the pro afk cloaker crowd says to do (Just ignore him) hot drop the hell out em.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:57:00 -
[47]
Sorry - I don't want to remove a mechanic that allows for sneak attacks. Anytime the average ratter sees local go up - they warp to a safe and cloak up. AFK cloaking and you can't assume the guy is there watching you or not, there is the possibility of getting ganked.
Keep the AFK cloaker and remove local. That's my vote.
JOIN US
My ****ty Stats
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Lil Mule
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Posted - 2010.05.26 15:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: ArkAngel666 I agreed with the whole "It's just one guy in a cloaky ship, just call your friends if he shows up" argument up until the good folks at CCP brought us the black op's hot drop. Now that 1 afk cloaker can turn in to a 40 man fleet of pain in about 6 seconds. Just park a afk cloaker in system. Once he's there for a day and everyone starts to do what the pro afk cloaker crowd says to do (Just ignore him) hot drop the hell out em.
Ive been scratching my head trying to figure out WHEN this became a problem. Cloaks and Cov Ops have been in the game for quite some time, and its only recently that the "AFK cloakers are unfair" whine threads started (maybe in the last 6 months?), so Ive come up with some possibilities (which is part of the reason why I quoted the above):
1) Ever since Cov Ops do not get de-cloaked as a result of an interdiction bubble and/or warp disruption bubble, there are more cloakers able to penetrate hostile systems.
Ok - seems plausible - now more Cov Ops are capable of getting into enemy systems un-molested and thus people see more of them and complain about it. Solution? If this is indeed one of the issues then make the bubbles pop cloaks again. Im not in favour of this as I do all sorts of cloaky stealthy things myself, and it annoyed me when bubbles removed cloaks, but I tolerated it, and still used the cloaking device.
2) The much dreaded Black Ops: There seems to be a fear that one cloaker can spawn a cov ops Cyno and jump in a bunch of Black ops BS's, Recon's and SB's, and gank some unsuspecting ships in the system.
Ok - this is slightly plausible, but a couple of points about it. For one, the range on black ops is pretty limited, therefore the enemy would have to be in pretty close range to make the jump. Its quite possible for null sec alliances/members to understand the range required to hit various systems they are in (if you cant figure it out, go here and learn: http://www.eve-icsc.com/jumptools/jumpplanner.php). What good does this do? Scouts. If you are going to use a carrier to rat, or a faction fitted BS, log on your low SP alt, and have him park a couple systems away and make sure there are no black ops BS's/hostiles sitting in the system. The range of BO BS's is so short that its usually only a small number of systems.
Second point - use basic mechanics of 0.0. Stay aligned, keep an eye on local and scan regularly. No you cant rat in peace and make 1m isk per rat and chain them and not worry about anything. No such thing in EVE.
3) There are an increased number of people in 0.0, many of them inexperienced, and thus they are getting ganked as a result of Cov-Ops in the systems. There are more Cov-Ops circulating around - because there are more inexperienced juicy targets.
Quite plausible, and I would almost say - guaranteed. It seem (even looking at the Sov Map) that there are a number of new dewllers in 0.0, many of them inexperienced, and Im sure they make easy targets. The fact that the OP would mention a carrier ratting in 0.0 illustrates the point well. A carrier isnt needed to rat, there are far more efficient options available. Same with the Nightmare and Golem. A Nightmare and Golem arent needed to rat. Rat's arent that difficult, there are far better ISK expenditure for ships vs income ratio's available. -----------------------------------------------
People enjoy flying Amarr for the same reason they like being tied up in leather, whipped and called names
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Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2010.05.26 15:14:00 -
[49]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
GTFO of this thread! You are scaring the op!!
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MWDrive
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Posted - 2010.05.26 16:32:00 -
[50]
I can rat in peace and make lots of isk and it is risk free. Also, it can be done in carrier and it will also be risk free. That might also be a problem and all the posts about removing local might be valid, but, as I already said, that is not a point of this thread.
If only more people would understand that instead of being smart and giving suggestions how to avoid getting ganked (which anyone with half brain already knows) or bringing up entirely another matter of local in nullsec, we might actually get somewhere.
Originally by: MWDrive Problem here is mechanics which allows you to be invulnerable 23/7 in hostile space.
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Natalia Erana
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Posted - 2010.05.26 16:42:00 -
[51]
Originally by: MWDrive I can rat in peace and make lots of isk and it is risk free. Also, it can be done in carrier and it will also be risk free. That might also be a problem and all the posts about removing local might be valid, but, as I already said, that is not a point of this thread.
If only more people would understand that instead of being smart and giving suggestions how to avoid getting ganked (which anyone with half brain already knows) or bringing up entirely another matter of local in nullsec, we might actually get somewhere.
Originally by: MWDrive Problem here is mechanics which allows you to be invulnerable 23/7 in hostile space.
The only remotely effective way of protecting yourself against a BO hotdrop is to be aligned to a celestial object 100% of the time. if you have any other suggestions I'd be glad to hear them. (scanning and watching local don't work because by the time local spikes / the cyno ship decloaks, they're already within 20km of you and shooting you). But I don't really know anything that a single ship could do that would be effective against 10x bomber + Arazu/Pilgrim/Falcon.
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.05.26 16:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Natalia Erana
The only remotely effective way of protecting yourself against a BO hotdrop is to be aligned to a celestial object 100% of the time. if you have any other suggestions I'd be glad to hear them. (scanning and watching local don't work because by the time local spikes / the cyno ship decloaks, they're already within 20km of you and shooting you). But I don't really know anything that a single ship could do that would be effective against 10x bomber + Arazu/Pilgrim/Falcon.
All this says about you is that you got complacent ignored the threat in local and against better judgment decided to rat and were not prepared to be attacked.
So how is that the "afk" cloakers fault? seems if you were going to be BO dropped that little cloaky in local wasn't AFK, and that means he was using the cloaking device as intended.
The real sad part in your scenario is that even though he was cloaked, you still knew he was there and were still unprepared for someone to attack, aligning your ship is the single most effective thing you can do if you need to GTFO fast.
Stop being the victim, play smarter
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:05:00 -
[53]
I'll have to remember to fit a cyno next time I sneak into IT space =) I don't usually bother, but a ratting carrier would be a huge juicy target hehe
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Thegogetergirl
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Posted - 2010.05.27 04:07:00 -
[54]
A: Afk cloaking is for ***s. If you are playing play, if you're no, then logout. The game should foce logout for inactivity lke _every_ other MMO in the world.
B: And most important. How f'ing gay is it that we sometimes have to wait 5 minutes to login to the stupid game because the cluster is full all because there are 500+ ***s who are allowed to take up login spots while they are at a movie theatre and sh*t like that.
I mean if nothing else, even these homos who say "turn off local" have no answer for B. I'd like to login and...I don't know...actually play the game.
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Hobo Madfellow
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Posted - 2010.05.27 04:29:00 -
[55]
Originally by: BC Tank Fuel for using a cloak on your ship does this sound insane? well fear not as it probably wasn't thought up by me and infact i think i heard it from someone else.
The reason for the post as some of u might have guessed is, having a hostile in your null security system or systems AFK'ing 24 hours aday cloaked for many weeks on end.
How can u get rid of them? how do u know when there active to try to get rid of them - its a ghey tactic and the friends of the cloaker should have sommin to say about it to - cant have killboard stats without isk right?
If i can fly out to a hostile region with 8 hours of cloaking fuel and covert cyno in a team and rip apart a ratting carrier then fine, but why would i try that over a 6 week period if it cost me the logistics and isk to do so?
Im not proposing that fuel for cloaking use is the answer but at the way it stands the above problem is a problem for us all.
What i want to do with this post is inform CCP that this game mechanic isnt worth the title game play, at some point it need to change for a more challenging option.
Please vote for the damn fuel option :)
You're a god damn ******. Get out. This post comes up literally 3 times a week and it's not being changed.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.05.27 04:29:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Thegogetergirl
B: And most important. How f'ing gay is it that we sometimes have to wait 5 minutes to login to the stupid game because the cluster is full all because there are 500+ ***s who are allowed to take up login spots while they are at a movie theatre and sh*t like that.
I mean if nothing else, even these homos who say "turn off local" have no answer for B. I'd like to login and...I don't know...actually play the game.
Wha... ? -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Natalia Erana
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Posted - 2010.05.27 05:47:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Meeko Atari Stop being the victim, play smarter
Selected the only thing in your post that was worth responding to. What do you suggest instead of "being complacent and ignoring him?" Cease to make income? Move to empire? Spoilers: moving to empire means the AFK cloaker has done the most damage he possibly can.
"Playing smarter" means "minimizing the loss and continuing to make isk", it doesn't mean "concoct elaborate, ret@rded strategies to fight off a 10 man black ops hotdrop fleet."
IMO there's kind of an imbalance since the defense against an AFK cloaker is having a defense fleet on full time standby, whereas coordinating an attack requires only minutes of attention.
Stop being an unrealistic idiot, lern2blackops.
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Snow Banshee
Amarr Ruatha Holding
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Posted - 2010.05.27 05:56:00 -
[58]
Originally by: ImAPostingAlt
Originally by: Laboratory Technician
Originally by: Khanoonian Singh Here is a fix- remove local, then you won't have to see the scary AFK cloaker.
this
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SirRalph
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Posted - 2010.05.27 06:17:00 -
[59]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Oh noeh! It's the scary AFK Cloaker!
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Land0 CaIrissian
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:11:00 -
[60]
Originally by: BC Tank nonsense
Show us on the doll where the cloaky man touched you.
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LadyWhale
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:56:00 -
[61]
Not bad. Imposes a slight cost to AFK-cloaking.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:23:00 -
[62]
Originally by: LadyWhale Not bad. Imposes a slight cost to AFK-cloaking.
And gimps the cargo bays of legitimate users. Because any amount useful enough to stop afk cloaking, by necessity, will take up a large amount of space, other wise it wouldn't have an affect on an AFK cloaker. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Gicer
New Dawn Corporation Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:37:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Gicer on 28/05/2010 08:39:49 ========================================== Pi***d off at Namof Zomgbag
Then do the post some justice
http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1324139 ========================================== IT killing your ratters in their Nightmares while NC fights a war?
Calling for a cloak nerf because your stupid and die isnt the best reason.
U maaaaaad bro.
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Rahnim
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Posted - 2010.06.04 02:05:00 -
[64]
Yes, I wouldnt mind it being able to cloak for like 24 hours (worth of fuel) it could run 1 round of fuel per hour, and be able to fit 24 of these "fuel units" inside the cloak itself. but only covert cloak would need it :) (like a cap booster)
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.04 02:32:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Zill on 04/06/2010 02:34:02 Is anyone els missing the irony here, of the 0.0 carebears (ratters)demanding 0.0 be "safe" ? SB's are the weakest ship in eve an you feel threatened because a bomber sits cloaked in system ? LOLOL
To be honest, all jokes aside, you choose to go to 0.0 an you choose to rat/mine/roam, take responsibility for yourself an stop asking CCP to hold your hand.If you want to rat in peace, then bring friends :)
Even if it's a recon sitting in system, a single "rapier" is no threat to you, unless he lites off, an then a cloak is gonna be least of your problems. All I am saying is, defend yourself, an don't ask CCP to do it for you :D
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Jane Jacobs
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Posted - 2010.06.04 03:57:00 -
[66]
Well here is a thought...cloaks can be bumped right? Why dont you populate the space around all the celestial bodies in your system with secure cans. There will only be some safe spots available in between the celestials, but you have decreased the number of hiding spots. Or if you have an area of ops like a spawn site or belt, make a safety net of cans around ya.
Otherwise, I would suggest a new kind of probe. Perhaps something that is launched from a POS and operated in the same way as regular combat probes. However, these probes (which are only usable from POS) can detect cloaked ships. It gives you a method to hunt them, with out gimping cloaking.
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Tyrael Primus
Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.04 04:42:00 -
[67]
I like the reduced capacitor idea. Doesn't gimp stealth bombers much but does gives some incentive to the cloaker to get something done before the penalty increases too much. Recons will have a tougher time if the cap penalty is harsh enough, like a permanent reduction until you dock or are decloaked for a certain period. The permanent cap penalty an MWD gives you would be similar.
Any probes that detect cloakers would have to work really slowly so that a safespot is still viable for some time with cloak. However really AFKing would be tougher.
Cloaking really adds a lot to solo-ish play in Eve so any penalty should not negate cloaking. The real answer is for some real expansion in the combat area of Eve, like subsystems targeting, tactical area effect weapons, vulnerable system scanning centers, etc. A soft cap penalty would be fine for now.
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Zill
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:08:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Zill on 04/06/2010 05:08:34 I think pvpers need a bigger penalty to their operations while we are at it. Bring in a higher sec hit for any pvp action in highsec. tone down battleship dps an make it far more expensive to use fuel based ships :D
See what I am getting at ?
You guys want cov ops "punished" because it can do one thing you cant do" (in reality you can too, you just don't want to).... A ship class that is inherently weak because of that cloak. Remember that cloak is our "armor" unlike you who have enough armor to laugh at any SB that bombs you. Hell even my helios can tank 2 bombs before it gets into armor.
Yet you want it nerfed even more so you "feel safe" in 0.0 hehe Makes no sense to me at all.
I have sat in NOL, and D4F before for 2 or 3 hours an not one single person ever said boo to me or about me...
Because they know I am not a threat. You lads need to "man up" as you Americans call it, an grow a pair I think.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.06.04 06:40:00 -
[69]
Let's just face the facts:
When someone enters that 0.0 system, it makes the bots warp to SS or dock.
So the people running the bots can't hunt down the cloaker and kill him. Times a wasting, ISK is being lost. HE MUST DIE!!!!!!
But alas, he is cloaked, and cannot be probed out and hunted down.
Look at any drone region system: seldom more than 3 people in them, they all have 5+ sec status, and the map stats for "faction ships destroyed" show them in the hundreds. Yeah, there's no bots here. Right.
So you show up, and suddenly there will be one player shadowing you. It's funny to watch. They always start out assuming you are docked so they try to camp the station before their maps update to show more reliable data on "docked and active" or "in space".
And that cloak just keeps running.....
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Gh0st Rid3r
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Posted - 2010.06.04 07:49:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Gh0st Rid3r on 04/06/2010 07:52:12
Originally by: Corina Jarr I don't get why people always come up with strange "solutions" to the AFK cloak "problem".
Here's my solution (and its only to silence the whiners): 1) have a timer record input from the user 2) after an amount of time of no input (1 hr for example) a pop-up comes on screen saying something along the lines of "Unless you hit ok, your session will close in 5 minutes" 3) if the person is really online, they hit ok 4) if they are afk, the session ends
This not only solves the afk cloak "problem" but also removes all afk folks (after the time picked by CCP) thus lowering the load on the server (and in places like Jita, this could help a lot potentially).
If anyone actualy cares enough about this issue, feel free to suggest my idea. I don't care.
hell no .. if i whant to afk in game 24/7 (cloak or not) i CAN because i pay to play this game 24/7
and about cloak ... its working like intended
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Conmen
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.06.08 19:07:00 -
[71]
This is ******ed k thanks and probably a reflection of your intelligence and understand of game mechanics. Also stop whining you carebear noob. Please shoot down this tardbear idea faster then a tweaked out tweaker resisting arrest.
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Tsukiko Ishida
Interstellar Waffle Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.06.13 18:53:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Tsukiko Ishida on 13/06/2010 18:54:57 I want to say, first, that I support cloaking and am primarily a covert-ops/recon pilot. But this:
Quote: ... uncloaking is risk to the cloaker, we can't harm anyone and we stay cloaked...
Quote: ... no threat, no damage if I'm cloaked...
Is either blatant lying or a clear lack of understanding of what covert ops can do.
A covert ops can:
- Use the cloak to get within say, 30-40k, uncloak long enough to deploy a normal/Covert Portal Generator and hot drop you with an untold number of bombers/recons/black ops
Can they do this while AFK? Of course not. But that also means you have no idea when they are not AFK, and they're possibly getting in place for a hot drop. Will you kill them as they uncloak? Possibly, but they have the element of surprise and they really don't need long for those drops to come through.
Cloaking has a very real, and tangible use that you don't realize until you see a local spike of 50 due to a normal/Covert Portal Generator that wasn't there a second ago.
PS:Covert Portal Generators can be used in cyno-jammed systems
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Julius Romanus
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.06.13 19:41:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Tsukiko Ishida Edited by: Tsukiko Ishida on 13/06/2010 18:54:57 I want to say, first, that I support cloaking and am primarily a covert-ops/recon pilot. But this:
Quote: ... uncloaking is risk to the cloaker, we can't harm anyone and we stay cloaked...
Quote: ... no threat, no damage if I'm cloaked...
Is either blatant lying or a clear lack of understanding of what covert ops can do.
A covert ops can:
- Use the cloak to get within say, 30-40k, uncloak long enough to deploy a normal/Covert Portal Generator and hot drop you with an untold number of bombers/recons/black ops
Can they do this while AFK? Of course not. But that also means you have no idea when they are not AFK, and they're possibly getting in place for a hot drop. Will you kill them as they uncloak? Possibly, but they have the element of surprise and they really don't need long for those drops to come through.
Cloaking has a very real, and tangible use that you don't realize until you see a local spike of 50 due to a normal/Covert Portal Generator that wasn't there a second ago.
PS:Covert Portal Generators can be used in cyno-jammed systems
Right, and all of that is working exactly as intended. I know you arent anti cloakers, but I wanted to add to your post that this is exactly what the systems are in place FOR.
I rat all the time in systems with afk reds, it's part of living in 0.0. If it's a lone SB, i hope i DO get jumped, my tank will hold long enough for the drones to do their work. If it's a super duper covert cyno hotdrop. Well **** I'll lose my ship if i'm not aligned. I dont fly pricey ratting ships, there's a very good chance even a poor response by blues will take out more than i lose. *shrugs* ------------------ For Medicinal Use Only. |
Tsukiko Ishida
Interstellar Waffle Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.06.13 20:50:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Julius Romanus Right, and all of that is working exactly as intended. I know you arent anti cloakers, but I wanted to add to your post that this is exactly what the systems are in place FOR
Then we're in agreement. Don't misread my post, I don't think anything should change with the current cloaking mechanics. I'm simply stating that the current arguments being tossed around by the afk cloakers are poorly thought out. I agree with not changing the mechanics, but their reasons aren't logically sound, typically.
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Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2010.06.14 01:58:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Land0 CaIrissian
Originally by: BC Tank nonsense
Show us on the doll where the cloaky man touched you.
On the Thorax ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Peter Powers
FinFleet IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.08 17:49:00 -
[76]
cause of this thread
Northern Crusade - Daily numbers on EVE's largest current conflict |
Byzan Zwyth
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
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Posted - 2010.07.08 23:29:00 -
[77]
finally a thread worth a laugh or two :) Sig removed. Lacks EVE related content. For more information feel free to contact [email protected]. ~Saint |
Andreya
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.09 03:08:00 -
[78]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
*chuckle is this a yes vote or a no vote :) _________________________________________________________ Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |
Mella Elcus
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Posted - 2010.07.09 03:37:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Mella Elcus on 09/07/2010 03:39:59 The reason people whine about afk cloaking is because there's something seriously wrong with the intelligence gathering in the game. A 30 sec old alt can provide just as good intelligence as 6 year old vet with 100m+ sp.
This makes it impossible to sneak up to someone ratting/plexing since the moment you step into local he/she will already be aligning to a SS or station.
How do you counter this? Simple, you stay cloaked in the system until no one can be sure if you're really there or not.
So basically, afk cloaking is just a way to counter the perfect intelligence tool known as the local chat. By nerfing afk cloaking you're really just fixing the symptom, not the actual problem.
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Brannor McThife
Caldari Brotherhood of the Ancients
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Posted - 2010.07.09 03:47:00 -
[80]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
+10 for best post I've seen this week.
-G
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.07.09 06:34:00 -
[81]
Originally by: BC Tank and this is again why i dont post here.
And yet, you did. Not to mention that the "here" you posted in was the wrong "here". You should in fact of (not) posted "here".
Originally by: BC Tank Some stupid people out there 4 real.
Oh the irony.
Originally by: BC Tank If u READ the post u shall see it isnt about your grandma's new tomato plant but somthing that is broke in eve.
There are several things "broken" in Eve (depending on who you ask ofc.), cloaking isn't one of them. AFK cloaking however is a very obvious symptom of what is in fact "broken". Care to guess what that might be? (hint: it's on page 1)
Originally by: BC Tank forgive me god i replied to an eve online post, please show me the way of my errors.
God may well forgive you (depending on which God you are appealing to). Eve forum posters are known to be somewhat less merciful however.
Peace. ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Karles
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Posted - 2010.07.09 09:50:00 -
[82]
It is clear, you get a trial, train for a cloak and start annoying ppl. Or use your 1m sp alt to sit there while you are at work or celebrating with your teen buddies.
I am pretty sure CCP did not intended to allow that. Cloak is for intel, scout, bombing, rapid deployment of covops, cyno, etc...
I am pretty sure everyone raging here against this thread are probably afkcloakers, so i don't give a $hit about their oppinion. Every advantage of this kind has to have a counterpart as all ships have actually. I agree with both fuel or capa consumption solutions. No combat = some kind of negative effect to be applied.
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.07.09 10:13:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Dray on 09/07/2010 10:14:56 I have not nor have I ever sat an alt afk cloaking, but there isn't anything wrong here, you're not really interested in a counter for its own sake, you just want it known it can be countered so you can continue on your happy way and make isk without risk, it isn't a great leap of imagination to realize that not only is it a valid tactic, it's a good one, the pvp guys wont give two hoots and the bears get nervous, how it should be.
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away I had to rat for sec and it happened to me, guess what, instead of coming to the forums to cry about it, I went to another system.
Don't try to fix what isn't broken, there's enough broken stuff in game that needs sorting before something that isn't.
My sig comment = This thread.
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People's elbow
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Posted - 2010.07.09 10:13:00 -
[84]
Edited by: People''s elbow on 09/07/2010 10:15:33 lolpart
It would be nice to see 0.0 lolfarmer to have a timer on their ship or guns that allow farming during a period (or a limited number of plex/belt).
Or better, a fuel bay on your ship to cooling guns or propulsion engin, consumming the same fuel of the cloak module. In this way, cloaky ships can buy ALL your fuel, give you some large isk. Then resell you 5x the initial price and keep some to be cloak again :-)
Seriously, why don't you train for a cloaky ship? buy one, fit one, and go with it in ennemi's line ? Oh i know... this give you no money :/ I will give you an hint : IT'S A TRAP
EDIT : I forgot --> Is the term "NULLSEC" or "LOWSEC" means something to whiners?
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.07.09 12:09:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 09/07/2010 12:09:38
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
guys, he's not afk; HE'S NOT AFK DAMMIT, get the **** safe - GTFO, NOW!!!
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:10:00 -
[86]
Originally by: BC Tank its a ghey tactic
So is whining on the forum. How can we nerf that? -- Sent from my douchePhone using Look@MEEEEE!
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Aglais
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:18:00 -
[87]
No. Just no.
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Diablo Ex
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:53:00 -
[88]
Cloaking is not broken...
HTFU you panzy nullsec dwellers.
Go back to Empire where you belong
Enough Already
---
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Marlona Sky
D00M. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:29:00 -
[89]
Posting in a "Please do something about the AFK Cloaker in my plex system so I can get back to bearing 23/7!" thread.
AFK Cloakers are harmless. It is the ones that are not AFK that you should fear...
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Innocent Murderer
Unjustly Accused
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Posted - 2010.07.10 00:31:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Marlona Sky AFK Cloakers are harmless. It is the ones that are not AFK that you should fear...
QFT. Sadly, they are very difficult to tell apart.
Anyways...the summary of all the fuel ideas that I've seen:
--Make the fuel a PI product so wormhole people don't have to go to empire for it.
--Make a dedicated fuel bay for cloaking-specific ships such as a covops in order not to nerf the cargohold.
--Make the fuel last a pretty damn long time, but not forever (somewhere in the timeframe of 12-24 hours.
--Make the cloak consume the fuel upon activation.
--Make the fuel come in very small units that don't last a long time so that people who cloak/decloak while passing through gates and such aren't using up a sixteenth of their fuel every time they activate the module.
--Make an announcement a long time before actually implementing the fuel requirement.
--Make the fuel fairly cheap.
--Make non-specialized ships with cloaks consume much more fuel than spec'd ships.
--Change nothing else about the way a cloak works.
I may have forgotten to include an idea or two, so this will probably get edited at some point.
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Draku Rykenen
Gallente The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.07.10 00:42:00 -
[91]
I like it. add a "fuel bay" as suggested to avoid gimping the transports and give the cloak enough fuel efficiency to make fairly long term trips ( which would be longer for larger ships as their fuel bays could be larger ) and it is a win imo.
ships not "meant" to cloak will have no fuel bays at all and will need to make a further sacrifice of a bit of cargo space to operate the cloak, no biggy there in my view.
Need covert fleet recon? Cov ops frig is your man!
Need longer range, longer duration recon and observation? Call in the Black ops!
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Tyriana McLoren
Caldari The Republic of Free Trade
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Posted - 2010.07.10 00:53:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Tyriana McLoren on 10/07/2010 00:56:30 So, let us get this all straight shall we? As stated by numerous people previously, you are upset that an 'AFK Cloaker' is in 'your' 0.0 system? There are so many things wrong with that statement it is almost mind numbing. So, this person who is AFK is doing exactly WHAT to you? Riiiight... nothing. So if you make it so people can't AFK when they choose to do so, then I'm assuming you would be quite happy with your buddies (carebears in 0.0 space) wouldn't mind also getting some sort of penalty for afking while their strip miners are running on those big rocks right?
Or better yet, let's go back to the part where you think that his particular 0.0 system actually belongs to you. Umm, it doesn't. It's open territory for anybody to come along and slap you silly and take it from you. A person who is AFK isn't going to shoot you... they are AFK.
I have to agree with the others here that I don't see anything wrong with this 'issue' as you have stated it. I don't condone AFK-cloaking, but I don't really see it as an issue/problem. How is it any different than someone AFKing in a system inside a station and you not knowing if they are in a station, or cloaked, or roasting marshmellows on the burning flames of your carebear corp mate's flaming ships? You wouldn't, because you obviously have NO idea what it means to live out in 0.0 space which is why you started this thread in the first place. And I'm certain that by the time this post reached the OP's second post, he opted to go start a thread somewhere else to try and raise sympathy some other way.
NO the cloak ships don't need any sort of bull **** fuel or any other sort of compensation. As stated before, the cloak is the defense for these usually paper thin ships. And worrying about a person who is AFK is just silly anyway.
One also has to ask... how exactly do you know he/she is AFK? Did they tell you they were AFK?
Seriously, get out of 0.0, go back to farming Veld in highsec and running cheap L4s where it is 'safe' for you to do so.
p.s. I wish local in 0.0 would disappear. Would change many many things out there.
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2010.07.10 00:58:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Tyriana McLoren
Or better yet, let's go back to the part where you think that his particular 0.0 system actually belongs to you. Umm, it doesn't.
Someone's never had to pay a sovereignty bill before, have they.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
If you're going to quote me that's great, but it must be something I've actually said. Shadow.
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Tyriana McLoren
Caldari The Republic of Free Trade
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Posted - 2010.07.10 00:59:00 -
[94]
Originally by: captain foivos
Originally by: Tyriana McLoren
Or better yet, let's go back to the part where you think that his particular 0.0 system actually belongs to you. Umm, it doesn't.
Someone's never had to pay a sovereignty bill before, have they.
That still doesn't mean anything. You can still lose 'your' system.
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Draku Rykenen
Gallente The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.07.10 01:20:00 -
[95]
Ermm, Tyr..
Firstly, don't you think it adds some interesting dynamics to spying? Secondly, it is annoying to have a perma-invincible, untraceable, alt hovering in system. It would affect all players equally so no problem there.
I think it adds a layer to the spy game and to some degree means that the people carrying out recon of enemy systems will actually have to make an effort to do so, win for all imo.
I wouldn't think it would be an insane change.. the fuel could last for hours in a frig and maybe a couple of days in a black ops, but at least there would have to be SOME sort of EFFORT made to observe the activity in a system.
As it is, you can leave an alt anywhere with total impunity..
As for "carebears" that you suggest don't pay a price for AFK'ing.. that hulk is not untraceable nor unable to be targeted. It also costs a lot more to lose than a cov ops.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.07.10 02:19:00 -
[96]
I wonder how the OP would handle W-space, probs cry about no local.
Why is someone crying when they are well aware of a reds presence?
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Tyriana McLoren
Caldari The Republic of Free Trade
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Posted - 2010.07.10 10:24:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Draku Rykenen Ermm, Tyr..
Firstly, don't you think it adds some interesting dynamics to spying?
No, I think it adds some annoying aspect to spying. As stated above, ALL ships would need a serious rethinking because there is no way a SB alone would be able to cope with this change due to the size of the bombs, and other ammo they have to carry, as well as the cloaky haulers. Quote: Secondly, it is annoying to have a perma-invincible, untraceable, alt hovering in system. It would affect all players equally so no problem there.
Perma invincible? It's not like they are actually DOING anything but sitting there.. I'm perma invincible in a station aren't I? So are you. That is the design behind the cloak.. untraceable. Good grief... don't you all understand what a CLOAK is?
Quote: I think it adds a layer to the spy game and to some degree means that the people carrying out recon of enemy systems will actually have to make an effort to do so, win for all imo.
I wouldn't think it would be an insane change.. the fuel could last for hours in a frig and maybe a couple of days in a black ops, but at least there would have to be SOME sort of EFFORT made to observe the activity in a system.
As it is, you can leave an alt anywhere with total impunity..
As for "carebears" that you suggest don't pay a price for AFK'ing.. that hulk is not untraceable nor unable to be targeted. It also costs a lot more to lose than a cov ops.
Yes I am fully aware that AFKing in a Hulk can net you a loss as you can be scanned and targeted, but that was not my point. If someone is going to harp on people being AFK, they have to harp on ALL people being AFK.. not just the ones that affect you/him/her/them. That is called Biased and is not a rational argument.
Overall, as I said, I think there is no problem here. You speak of adding some sort of actual aspect to cloaking and recon as though that will be better for everyone... suppose you are the only one who thinks this way? What about the haulers? They have to pay a price of fuel or whatever as well because they need to haul just because someone else is AFK? I think it is all fine the way it is. 0.0 people need more people to populate their system. Period. You are in a very high risk area and are wanting the risk removed. If a (what I see as a drastic) change is made to cloaks in this fashion, I would be among the others demanding that Local be removed totally as a fair and balanced act of justification.
L8rz
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Johnny May
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:29:00 -
[98]
uhm, how is cloaking related to spying? if im a spy, im in your corp, reading your corpchat, listening to your voice on teamspeak when you are whining drunk about cloakers, an laugh at you. and if the target is worth burning the character i'll drop a cyno right next to you in a passive tanked drake - so it lasts a while - and you wont expect it to happen until it happens. doh.
when im a cloaker, you can see me in local, you know you are not safe, and clearly im not spying there (or are you guys putting corp internas in local? if so, maybe i should actually hang out in your systems instead of putting efford in spying on you).
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Diggs Lonewalker
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Posted - 2010.07.10 11:54:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Diggs Lonewalker on 10/07/2010 11:55:08 Cloaks do require fuel. They are passively fueled by other ships being in the same system as they are. Much like a solar panel, a cloaking system requires another player to be in the same system to radiate Fear(tm). Fear(tm) is a micro-sub-atomic particle that cloaking devices absorb and convert in to Dark(tm). Dark(tm) is the emitted around the ship which renders it invisible.
However, much like the audio perception issues of a tree falling in an unoccupied forest, one has to realize that a cloaked ship is not cloaked if there is nobody else in the system with the cloaky pilot. Cloaking systems are designed by the same people that make refrigerator lighting systems. Like opening the door to test the light, it is not possible to enter a system with a cloaky ship present fast enough to not see the cloak... well more properly to see the cloud of Dark(tm).
Now some might argue that a cloaked pilot alone in system is seeing his cloaking cloud of Dark(tm) while alone in system. The manufacturer reminds the operator that this is like trying to test the lighting system from the inside of the refrigerator and he should remember to breathe and to stop sitting in the butter dish.
One cautionary note on this whole issue is that of the pod pilot with multiple personality disorder and chronic paranoia. Do not leave your ship, ever. Your second personality can caused a Fear(tm) feedback loop which will generate a Dark(tm) cloud. Pilots who have experienced this have complained, in stereo and sometimes 3 part harmonies, that they forgot where they parked and could not find their ship.
-Diggs
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Vee Raa
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.07.10 12:59:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Diggs Lonewalker
Cloaks do require fuel. They are passively fueled by other ships being in the same system as they are. Much like a solar panel, a cloaking system requires another player to be in the same system to radiate Fear(tm). Fear(tm) is a micro-sub-atomic particle that cloaking devices absorb and convert in to Dark(tm). Dark(tm) is the emitted around the ship which renders it invisible.
However, much like the audio perception issues of a tree falling in an unoccupied forest, one has to realize that a cloaked ship is not cloaked if there is nobody else in the system with the cloaky pilot. Cloaking systems are designed by the same people that make refrigerator lighting systems. Like opening the door to test the light, it is not possible to enter a system with a cloaky ship present fast enough to not see the cloak... well more properly to see the cloud of Dark(tm).
Now some might argue that a cloaked pilot alone in system is seeing his cloaking cloud of Dark(tm) while alone in system. The manufacturer reminds the operator that this is like trying to test the lighting system from the inside of the refrigerator and he should remember to breathe and to stop sitting in the butter dish.
One cautionary note on this whole issue is that of the pod pilot with multiple personality disorder and chronic paranoia. Do not leave your ship, ever. Your second personality can caused a Fear(tm) feedback loop which will generate a Dark(tm) cloud. Pilots who have experienced this have complained, in stereo and sometimes 3 part harmonies, that they forgot where they parked and could not find their ship.
-Diggs
WIN
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tsukubasteve
Minmatar The Park Bench
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Posted - 2010.07.10 15:13:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Khanoonian Singh Are you really that afraid of an afk cloaker? You have no home defense or operations security set up?
Here is a fix- remove local, then you won't have to see the scary AFK cloaker.
Signed.. I say we move to a Wormhole style local system in all low-sec and 0.0 space. |
Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2010.07.10 17:20:00 -
[102]
I like how its always the cloaky pilots that want to remove local. they know a good thing when they see one. For them anyway.
AFK cloakies aren't much of a problem. Lotta options to combat that. Align out at all times. Snipe the rats from safespots, while aligned out. PVE in a PVP fit battleship with a heavy neut and a backup flight of ECM drones. Rat in the next system over. If the space is really *YOURS* erect a cynojammer so that the single afk cloaker can't multiply easily. Rat in a fleet. Keep a falcon alt nearby. Bait the cloaker to his death.
And to the people who want to remove local. As soon as one of you comes up with an easy to implement set of tools for someone to gather intel not using local then I'll support you. Until then, your desire to buff the blob further can go **** itself.
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Draku Rykenen
Gallente The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.07.10 17:30:00 -
[103]
Ok, well, we have different views. I still like the idea. It really has nothing to do with fear. It has to do with the idea that observing a system should take some effort and not be impossible to stop. I could just as easily say that you are afraid that your alts might have to refuel and you might miss a gate camp on that side of the gate and lose a ship once in a blue moon. I think you SHOULD have to make that effort and take that risk.
It certainly adds a layer of thought and planning and that layer is actually thinnest for the cloaky alt that just sits in system, it would actually affect long range fleets and combat deployments much more than the observer.
Despite that fact I would love to see it. There are more things in this vein that I would like to see too, including the need for ammunition transport to keep larger fleets operating effectively. These aren't all "make my life simple" things, i just enjoy tactical dynamics and I feel that cloak fuel would be a nice one.
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Pyro Ninja
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Posted - 2010.07.10 18:11:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Pyro Ninja on 10/07/2010 18:12:54 Really people need to stop crying about cloaking. They are doing what they are meant to do to gather intell and the poor null sec carebears that set up pos's are worried people will shoot at them. Stop crying get over it and learn to secure your jump gates.
It's like telling the RL stealth bombers they have to yell POLO!! every so often cuz its unfair that they people who want to kill them can't seem to find him.
Please just shut up and die.
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Tyriana McLoren
Caldari The Republic of Free Trade
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Posted - 2010.07.10 23:55:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Tyriana McLoren on 10/07/2010 23:55:34
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Larry Wickes
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Posted - 2010.07.11 02:33:00 -
[106]
As we all know in one of the original Star Trek movies Kirk (The best captain in Star Trek) encounters a 24/7 cloaker (Bird of Prey that can fire weapons while cloaked!!!) and, using the ships scanners finds a signature emitting from no where, thus he concluded that was the location of the cloaked Bird of Prey and fired his Photon Torpedoes!!!
As a cloak emits some kind of energy/radiation whatever, in order to shield the ship from a human's visible spectrum, it should be possible that a device exists and is able to detect these energies that are above/below our bodies capability.
I suggest another class of ship "Seekers" the only ship class capable of fielding a "Cloak detection device I/II". Essentially a scanning device designed to locate and pinpoint cloaked ships. The scan should take 1-2 minutes to be fair.
After all, if we can cloak our ships, we obviously understand the physics on how to create the cloak in the first place, and in the second place we then MUST also know how to detect these cloaks.
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Diggs Lonewalker
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Posted - 2010.07.11 05:11:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Diggs Lonewalker on 11/07/2010 05:14:16
You seem to have clicked on the wrong link, Star Trek Online is a different game. However, since you want to apply something roughy based on some sort of scientific aspect to this little event, lets take a hypothetical look at what you are trying to do.
You want a system to, effectively via a passive detection system of some sort, accurately track down and find a cloaked ship 'somewhere' in an area, to be fair and assuming that no 'deep safe' exists of about 50 AU long, 20 AU across, and 5 AU deep. I think it would be fair to say an area about that size would represent the average 'flyable area' in which you can expect to find a ship in a star system. So that works out to 500 cubic AU in which to find this ship.
Back to Star Trek. There are several cases of the cloak being used, and in some later events, even with that over glorified protocol droid 'Data' they had to admit that the cloak was 'just too good'. Anyhow, in almost all cases the cloaked ship was detected within, heck we'll call it 1 million km of the ship (and that is being generous). That would be a cube (because I don't want to do the math on a sphere) with an area of 8 million cubic kilometers or about 1/200,000,000,000,000,000,000 (2.0x10^20) the size you are saying you want to track down in 1 to 2 minutes?
Lets put that in to scale. That is like saying you want to isolate a single hydrogen molecule in an area the size of Iceland... in 120 seconds. All because your toon read a pamphlet and plugged in a metal detector set in to a slot on his ship.
And those numbers are just to track the ship down to within 1,000,000 km.
Anyhow, that is enough math on that end.
The game mechanic right now is not broken. You may not like it, but there are penalties to using a cloaking system. The counter-mechanic is to either fight or run away.
Perhaps looking at your idea in a scaled down, and somewhat more 'realistic' point would be to allow for a system that could potentially warn a pod pilot of a 'possible chance' of a nearby cloaking ship.
So, it would be a high-slot detection system that would run like a salvaging unit with a 20-30 second cycle time. Its range would be 20km + 20km per level of skill (Sciaphobia Skill) with a chance warning of a cloaked ship nearby. Upon detection, which would not warn the cloaked pilot, it is a passive system, the target would appear in the overview for the finder to either approach or avoid (the cloaked ship would not be directly targettable).
TL;DR version. This isn't Star Trek, the mechanic works fine, there is nothing wrong.
-Diggs (this message brought to you by Insomnia(tm))
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Qwert0
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Posted - 2010.07.11 07:12:00 -
[108]
Why not instead of fuel, slowly and randomly cause heat damage to the cloak?
You have 'fuel' with nanite paste, and if they go afk too long they burn out the cloak and are SOL until they hit a station.
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Larry Wickes
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Posted - 2010.07.11 15:33:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Diggs Lonewalker Edited by: Diggs Lonewalker on 11/07/2010 05:14:16
You seem to have clicked on the wrong link, Star Trek Online is a different game. However, since you want to apply something roughy based on some sort of scientific aspect to this little event, lets take a hypothetical look at what you are trying to do.
You want a system to, effectively via a passive detection system of some sort, accurately track down and find a cloaked ship 'somewhere' in an area, to be fair and assuming that no 'deep safe' exists of about 50 AU long, 20 AU across, and 5 AU deep. I think it would be fair to say an area about that size would represent the average 'flyable area' in which you can expect to find a ship in a star system. So that works out to 500 cubic AU in which to find this ship.
Back to Star Trek. There are several cases of the cloak being used, and in some later events, even with that over glorified protocol droid 'Data' they had to admit that the cloak was 'just too good'. Anyhow, in almost all cases the cloaked ship was detected within, heck we'll call it 1 million km of the ship (and that is being generous). That would be a cube (because I don't want to do the math on a sphere) with an area of 8 million cubic kilometers or about 1/200,000,000,000,000,000,000 (2.0x10^20) the size you are saying you want to track down in 1 to 2 minutes?
Lets put that in to scale. That is like saying you want to isolate a single hydrogen molecule in an area the size of Iceland... in 120 seconds. All because your toon read a pamphlet and plugged in a metal detector set in to a slot on his ship.
And those numbers are just to track the ship down to within 1,000,000 km.
Anyhow, that is enough math on that end.
The game mechanic right now is not broken. You may not like it, but there are penalties to using a cloaking system. The counter-mechanic is to either fight or run away.
Perhaps looking at your idea in a scaled down, and somewhat more 'realistic' point would be to allow for a system that could potentially warn a pod pilot of a 'possible chance' of a nearby cloaking ship.
So, it would be a high-slot detection system that would run like a salvaging unit with a 20-30 second cycle time. Its range would be 20km + 20km per level of skill (Sciaphobia Skill) with a chance warning of a cloaked ship nearby. Upon detection, which would not warn the cloaked pilot, it is a passive system, the target would appear in the overview for the finder to either approach or avoid (the cloaked ship would not be directly targettable).
TL;DR version. This isn't Star Trek, the mechanic works fine, there is nothing wrong.
-Diggs (this message brought to you by Insomnia(tm))
Well, thanks for putting it into perspective. I didn't really think about it that much. Also, I don't play Star Trek Online. I love just love the tv series, however, I haven't watched much of TNG.
Anyway, you made a good argument. Don't get me wrong, I also love cloaks and your idea sounds interesting. I do feel there should be some method of detecting a cloak, however, it may not be incredibly accurate.
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Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.11 19:18:00 -
[110]
They run on (macro) ratter tears tbh.
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Eli's Messenger
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Posted - 2010.07.11 20:13:00 -
[111]
What if they make a rig that shows that there is a cloaker on grid but doesn't give you anything other than their ship type, just to let you know if there actually watching.
Make it so that fitting this rig or a module if it was a module requires a skill and the higher the skill the better quality of cloak it can detect, so if you train to level 1 you can see there is a prototype cloaked ship and if you train to 5 maybe you can see covert ops cloaks, but either way it only lets you know they are on grid and thus actually watching you.
Could also let the cloaked pilot's cloaking skill attribute to whatever calculation it makes so that maybe a hard core cloaked scout with cloaking at 5 with a cov ops cloak couldn't be seen by it at all.
Sorry for wall of text and probable spelling/grammar errors.
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Murkelost
FinFleet IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.09 12:06:00 -
[112]
Originally by: BC Tank
What i want to do with this post is inform CCP that this game mechanic isnt worth the title game play, at some point it need to change for a more challenging option.
The only fail about cloak these days is that any ship can use them. Limit it to the ships that are made for it, recons etc. That would make being in 0.0 a challenge for those non cloaky muppets.
And oh in regard of the cloak part of the game, remove local chat
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Murkelost
FinFleet IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.09 12:11:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Midnight Firestarter Cloakers need to cloak and stay cloaked .... everything else shouldn't be able to fit them ....
This!
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Murkelost
FinFleet IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.10.09 12:15:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Omarvelous Sorry - I don't want to remove a mechanic that allows for sneak attacks. Anytime the average ratter sees local go up - they warp to a safe and cloak up. AFK cloaking and you can't assume the guy is there watching you or not, there is the possibility of getting ganked.
Keep the AFK cloaker and remove local. That's my vote.
/signed
Only place that recons etc are justified these days are in wormhole systems where there simply is no local. The local chat mechanic is therefore in need of a overhaul regard to this since a cloak class ship in most cases is totally useless since their presence gets exposed in the local window in regular systems.
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Azver Deroven
Amarr Pitch Black.
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Posted - 2010.10.09 14:20:00 -
[115]
Quite frankly this thread had me startled for a moment, fuel for my stealthbomber that already takes 500'000-700'000 isk per cycle and can carry max of 4 charges?
Or are you afraid torpedoes from a single afk cloaker? Yes Im certain that volley hurts you before you warp off or kill me.
I understand for recons and blackops this is difrent, and t3 cloakers, but when you think about it, recon is -just- a cruiser hull with less dps, and most often than not, less tank.
It cannot kill you alone in 0.0 before your buddies SHOULD come to help.
For example: Killed a 'poon, then for some reason found loki 'n geddon that werent in safe after first kill in the system so we engaged. Breaking the loki was taxing as he was rather tanky, and even geddon didnt instapop under the fire. Only support they got was one, I trust it was basilisk, warping in 30 seconds after both were dead.
This is not to demonstrate hotdrop superiority; This is to demonstrate sad state where game is when your corp mates get attacked and (62 in local) no-one comes to help.
Earlier carrier attempts have all fallen to the fact that they get support. Thats the way its MENT to be done; You're in trouble, you shout for help, your mates come help you off.
Why did I just tell you that? I told you that because there IS a valid counter for hotdrops that, far as I can tell, is only reason you should fear afk cloakers. That is your buddies. If you're to fly in 0.0 I trust you did not set sov. up alone, I trust you did not move there on your own; No, you moved there as a part of whole. Then that whole should come to your support when you need it. If you are soloratting in a t3 / BS / BC / Carrier in a system with 0 friendlies, well beside your cyno alt (mebbe), and a hostile warps in, you get the hell out. Or you deserve whats comming at you.
Also do not claim that you did not notice the intel channel and gang of 10 moving trough systems with covert ops cloaks. If you REALLY have no intel, I dont think its game mechanics to blame, not with current local.
Its a mix of many things but black ops are counterable; One blackops cannot stand toe to toe with its non-cloaky variant. If we have a gang, you're soloing, should we not be able to kill you? But if you're in a gang as well, I know we cannot kill you. -THAT- is the price for cloak.
I'd be actually happy to go with sonar type anti-cloak module for specialized ship class if it would be, say, 50km range, and even then not immediate. And that under the condition we get delayed local. That would force recons to warp to further away to check the status of said ship; But that I trust is not the point of this discussion. ---------------------------------------------------- My views do not represent those of my alliance, corporation or myself. Trully, sometimes I manage to confuse even myself.
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Cedo Nulli
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Posted - 2010.10.09 17:12:00 -
[116]
If you have control over 0.0 system you should have a paper for every rock so to speak.
Every hostile move should have a defensive move available, not using the system is not one.
For those lolling about "so what", that cloaker essentially an enemy combatant gathering info and waiting to call in buddies when moment is right. There should be a way to root him out. Doesent have to be easy or cheap but it should be doable nevertheless.
Cloak should not be an automatic "cant touch this" button in 0.0 it can be that in low and in high but not in owned 0.0
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Azver Deroven
Amarr Pitch Black.
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Posted - 2010.10.09 17:48:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Cedo Nulli If you have control over 0.0 system you should have a paper for every rock so to speak.
Every hostile move should have a defensive move available, not using the system is not one.
For those lolling about "so what", that cloaker essentially an enemy combatant gathering info and waiting to call in buddies when moment is right. There should be a way to root him out. Doesent have to be easy or cheap but it should be doable nevertheless.
Cloak should not be an automatic "cant touch this" button in 0.0 it can be that in low and in high but not in owned 0.0
Did you intentionally ignore me?
It is not godmode on its own, and 10 man blackops fleet will probably not engage 5 man unless they're doing something seriously wrong. If they do engage; Theres very high chance that you'll be around and get kills, meanwhile your corp will be comming to help.
And if its a single blackops with ZERO intel on roaming blackops gang, then that single cloaker is not a threat as he will not be able to blow you up before you can call for backup, or blow him yourself.
If you only take scenario where it'll stay as 1v1, and you're in zerosec as holding sov., you're doing something wrong.
Do correct me if Im wrong tho, but if you do not have anyone to help or no intel, you're doing something wrong? ---------------------------------------------------- My views do not represent those of my alliance, corporation or myself. Trully, sometimes I manage to confuse even myself.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.09 18:19:00 -
[118]
GOD YES!
Make sense balance wise and prevents ****-***ging.
Cause no ship in EVE should be invulnerable. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Induc
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.10.09 18:40:00 -
[119]
AFK cloaking is just a result of a poor intel gathering system: local makes stealth attacks impossible - afk cloaking counters this.
Fuel for cloaks won't solve the real problem...
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Cause no ship in EVE should be invulnerable.
I suppose that includes afk macro ratters?
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Bibosikus
Gallente The Wyld Hunt
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Posted - 2010.10.09 18:53:00 -
[120]
There's nothing wrong with cloaking. It's AFK cloaking which is the root of this particular thread. AFK anything is, imho, just wrong. Eve is an MMO, a game of interaction. Macro ratters, macro miners and AFK cloakers should all be put up against a wall. All they're doing is basically acting like a bunch of NPC's with varying degrees of irritation attached that goad people into posting threads like this.
AFK cloakers don't always solo of course. I've seen 3 in one system, just sitting there for over a week. The level of psychological warfare that achieves is an order of magnitude above a solo.
But as long as Eve is a point-click, macros will abound. As long as we can have multiple accounts (that will NEVER change thankyou CCP) we will have AFK-ers.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.10.09 19:01:00 -
[121]
Yea...lets remove local...so you have to scan dozens of systems to find someone who can avoid you even easier by pressing a button once every few seconds.
I swear, some of these pilots just dont know what's best for them. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Vlepo
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Posted - 2010.10.09 21:35:00 -
[122]
Enough with this nonsence. You want to make money RISK-FREE ????? STEP RIGHT THIS WAY----->PLEXXXXX
Buy your iskies and be happy chaps about it.
Ratting in Carriers, ratting in Super-Carriers what comes next ???
YOUR GREED IS THE SOURCE OF YOUR PLIGHT REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ps. You can always became high-sec traders.....
Ps2. Aligning WILL NOT HELP (buBBles) |
Khalessa
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Posted - 2010.10.09 22:09:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Khalessa on 09/10/2010 22:10:11 I know! Lets not remove local and make cloakers not show up in local
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Abduakla
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Posted - 2010.10.10 05:24:00 -
[124]
Originally by: MWDrive
Originally by: Khanoonian Singh Are you really that afraid of an afk cloaker? You have no home defense or operations security set up?
Here is a fix- remove local, then you won't have to see the scary AFK cloaker.
Having local or removing it is another topic. Problem here is mechanics which allows you to be invulnerable 23/7 in hostile space. I don't mind AFK cloakers, just go rat in system next door, but that doesn't mean mechanics isn't broken.
The current mechanic is so broken that the leaders of Providence have all agreed in their defensive pact to NOT do this **** to each other.
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Ione Hunt
Storm Solutions
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Posted - 2010.10.10 06:28:00 -
[125]
You're already penalized enough for fitting a cloak. You can't get good damage or a great tank by fitting a covops cloak. Drop 1 high-slot or med-slot on your ratting ships to counter typical cloaking ships and you shouldn't have to act like a scared rabbit. _______________
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Min Mae
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Posted - 2010.10.10 07:06:00 -
[126]
The only thing I would change about Cloaking Devices is either making your ship harder to fit by using a percentage of powergrid and cpu rather than a fixed amount and/or lower the performance of the ship in more ways than just targeting lock time. Make the capacitor recharge slower, make the ship slower when uncloaked, increase the signature due to the wild physics involved in making a ship disappear.
You could also allow cloaked ships to be scanable down to the grid they are on, and someone just has to canvas the entire grid to find you. Maybe give subtle visual clues to the location like a shimmering similar to a cloaked bird of prey.
Make a cloak FUN instead of totally invulnerable. That is all.
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Min Mae
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Posted - 2010.10.10 07:09:00 -
[127]
Maybe a special pos modual that emits special hyperspace waves allowing combat probes to catch signals from a cloaked ship. Scan down to the grid, invite 1000 friends to comb the desert...
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Min Mae
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Posted - 2010.10.10 07:15:00 -
[128]
Have a modual fitted to a ship that increases the range at which your ship needs to be to decloak a cloaked ship. Make it eat large amounts of cap requiring logistics or lots of RR energy transfer to keep it going.
A pos modual that decloaks ships within an additional 20km of the pos shields.
All these ideas bring more skill into the game, while still allowing people to cloak with impunity.
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Min Mae
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Posted - 2010.10.10 07:19:00 -
[129]
ps... I also agree with getting rid of local in 0.0... Intel chans should replace that info...
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Vjorn Angannon
Fleet Escort Services
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Posted - 2010.10.10 07:36:00 -
[130]
Sorry, I didn't bother to read the whole thread, but I have a question:
What is the difference between my cloaked cheetah, afk 23/7, and my uncloaked cheetah with dual eccm, burning from an unaligned safe to an unaligned point, afk 23/7?
Next are we gonna ask to nerf eccm???
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Gibbo3771
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Posted - 2010.10.10 14:22:00 -
[131]
The solar panels on my loki soak up enough energy to Perma run my cloak. Just knocked a huge hole in your logic.
Now go away
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Feikno
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Posted - 2010.10.10 22:34:00 -
[132]
Just my two cents, but I think it's silly that there really is no 'true' form of covert ops, and espionage. Local Chat seems a little to easy to notice how many people are in a system or are unfamiliar in said system.
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xavier69
Gallente Stark Enterprises LLC
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Posted - 2010.10.11 00:19:00 -
[133]
MAKE CLOAKERS NOT VISIBLE IN LOCAL
PROBLEM FUKING SOLVED
REALLY TIRED OF HEARING THE SAME Whining for 4 years about cloaks
XOXOXOXO |
Eagle Tarquinas
Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.10.11 07:09:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Vjorn Angannon Sorry, I didn't bother to read the whole thread, but I have a question:
What is the difference between my cloaked cheetah, afk 23/7, and my uncloaked cheetah with dual eccm, burning from an unaligned safe to an unaligned point, afk 23/7?
Next are we gonna ask to nerf eccm???
Knowing its a cheetah and thus going "oh who gives a ****" as opposed to thinking "hmmm.... cloaky in system.... is it a recon? covops? full fledged battleship? battlecruiser? or just a noob ship witha co-processor on it."
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.10.11 11:30:00 -
[135]
AFK cloakers are harmless.
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Alberta
Gallente Wayne Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2010.10.11 13:49:00 -
[136]
I'm generally against the idea of requiring fuel to use a cloak or heavily nerfing the ability of ships designed for covert use to remain undetected for relatively long periods of time. That said I don't really see a problem with reducing the ability of non-covert ships to remain cloaked for long periods, or having some limit / logistical requirements for covert ships. I can just about see a workable compromise solution by combining heat mechanics with a special bay (not fuel but waste matter) on covert ship classes. It would go something like this:
First we'll start off with the mandatory tenuous rp technical explanation. (Not sure if this in with existing material or not and it's certainly not meant to be completely free of physics holes). Cloaks work by controlling the radiative emissions of a ship. This is not an energy neutral process, requiring the retention of more energy than that emitted. This results in the gradual build up of 'heat'. Covert ship classes get around this by having their designs based around a massively complicated bit of kit known as an Energy-matter converter mk2 (apparently the mk1 was a disaster resulting in the instantaneous destruction of the prototype ship when it produced almost 300 million times more mass than was predicted). This uses the excess heat to produce waste matter that is stored in a specially constructed matter production and containment chamber that can only be safely accessed using the fitting services of a station/POS/carrier. Allowing them to make extended use of any cloaking device fitted to the ship.
Now we've got the dodgy tech explanations out of the way, here's the mechanics. Active cloaks build up heat at a rate that is likely to start causing damage after a couple of minutes. In a covert ship, this heat will be converted to matter and stored in the waste matter bay, assuming that there is space. Covert ships should have space for maybe 24-48hrs of cloak operation. The waste matter bay requires the use of fitting services to be emptied.
The fallout You can still use a cloak on any ship, don't need to buy, mine or remember to bring fuel. If you're in a covert ship and your waste matter bay is full you should still be able use you cloak enough for travel purposes to go and get it emptied in relative safety unless you've let it burn out.
Non-covert ships can't afk cloak. You should be able to manage a pee break without your cloak taking heat damage, and with some safespot warping and nanite paste usage you might be able to wait out some hostiles long enough to either get some help, or until they get bored waiting if you're not a particularly tasty target. If you're trying to rat covertly in hostile territory though, you're probably going to need to bring a (shock horror) covert ship.
Covert ships can still akf cloak, but do have to leave hostile systems occasionally. Most covert players probably aren't going to be particularly inconvenienced by the logistics requirements unless they're engaged in 23/7 *******ging (adding some minor logistical requirements to doing this deep in hostile territory is no bad thing imo).
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Bernard Schuyler
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Posted - 2010.10.11 15:36:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Alberta I'm generally against the idea of requiring fuel to use a cloak or heavily nerfing the ability of ships designed for covert use to remain undetected for relatively long periods of time. That said I don't really see a problem with reducing the ability of non-covert ships to remain cloaked for long periods, or having some limit / logistical requirements for covert ships. I can just about see a workable compromise solution by combining heat mechanics with a special bay (not fuel but waste matter) on covert ship classes. It would go something like this:
First we'll start off with the mandatory tenuous rp technical explanation. (Not sure if this in with existing material or not and it's certainly not meant to be completely free of physics holes). Cloaks work by controlling the radiative emissions of a ship. This is not an energy neutral process, requiring the retention of more energy than that emitted. This results in the gradual build up of 'heat'. Covert ship classes get around this by having their designs based around a massively complicated bit of kit known as an Energy-matter converter mk2 (apparently the mk1 was a disaster resulting in the instantaneous destruction of the prototype ship when it produced almost 300 million times more mass than was predicted). This uses the excess heat to produce waste matter that is stored in a specially constructed matter production and containment chamber that can only be safely accessed using the fitting services of a station/POS/carrier. Allowing them to make extended use of any cloaking device fitted to the ship.
Now we've got the dodgy tech explanations out of the way, here's the mechanics. Active cloaks build up heat at a rate that is likely to start causing damage after a couple of minutes. In a covert ship, this heat will be converted to matter and stored in the waste matter bay, assuming that there is space. Covert ships should have space for maybe 24-48hrs of cloak operation. The waste matter bay requires the use of fitting services to be emptied.
The fallout You can still use a cloak on any ship, don't need to buy, mine or remember to bring fuel. If you're in a covert ship and your waste matter bay is full you should still be able use you cloak enough for travel purposes to go and get it emptied in relative safety unless you've let it burn out.
Non-covert ships can't afk cloak. You should be able to manage a pee break without your cloak taking heat damage, and with some safespot warping and nanite paste usage you might be able to wait out some hostiles long enough to either get some help, or until they get bored waiting if you're not a particularly tasty target. If you're trying to rat covertly in hostile territory though, you're probably going to need to bring a (shock horror) covert ship.
Covert ships can still akf cloak, but do have to leave hostile systems occasionally. Most covert players probably aren't going to be particularly inconvenienced by the logistics requirements unless they're engaged in 23/7 *******ging (adding some minor logistical requirements to doing this deep in hostile territory is no bad thing imo).
How many convoluted suggestions do we need to have before people just realize that what they really want has ZERO to do with cloaks and they just want AFK nerfed.
Idle for more than X minutes, auto-logoff. Problem solved.
If you can't abide that because you want to be AFK for other purposes, then too bad, live with the cloaks.
Because AFK-at-a-safe-unprobable-ships will STILL be there and you'll STILL be crying.
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Poastingalt
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:42:00 -
[138]
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
I love this guy.
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:50:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Bernard Schuyler Idle for more than X minutes, auto-logoff. Problem solved.
When I am sitting cloaked outside of someone's POS for an hour and watching their comings and goings, I would not want to magically be whisked away because the game thought I was not playing.
And yes, I will sit at a tower for an hour or two, just watching. Good things come to those who wait.
The real solution to AFK cloaking: Move back to high sec. Leave the rest of the game for the people who can deal with it. Fix Rockets in '08 '09 2010 2011 2012?! |
Bernard Schuyler
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Posted - 2010.10.11 18:55:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Originally by: Bernard Schuyler Idle for more than X minutes, auto-logoff. Problem solved.
When I am sitting cloaked outside of someone's POS for an hour and watching their comings and goings, I would not want to magically be whisked away because the game thought I was not playing.
And yes, I will sit at a tower for an hour or two, just watching. Good things come to those who wait.
The real solution to AFK cloaking: Move back to high sec. Leave the rest of the game for the people who can deal with it.
Agreed. And that's why people should just deal with AFK cloakers. They are doing nothing that thousands of other people are doing in the game. Sitting idle. Not attacking anyone. :-p
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2010.10.11 19:36:00 -
[141]
Originally by: BC Tank Fuel for using a cloak on your ship does this hide my afk cloaker whine sufficiently?
No.
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Djerin
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.10.11 20:00:00 -
[142]
Originally by: BC Tank The reason for the post as some of u might have guessed is, having a hostile in your null security system or systems AFK'ing 24 hours aday cloaked for many weeks on end.
Simple solution: just move to the system next doors and do your carebearing there. Carebear solution: cry about it on forums. Funny solution: fake isk-whoring and try to kill the cloaker when he thinks he can tackle you for his friends.
The only thing an afk cloaker achieves is that afk miners/ratters can't do their usual business in his presence. I have absolutely no problem with that. Actually I endorse it. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo |
Zyress
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Posted - 2010.10.11 20:21:00 -
[143]
Ya know, when I'm afk for long enough my client logs out automagically, how are these afk cloakers staying online and inactive?
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Allestin Villimar
Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.10.11 22:07:00 -
[144]
I can afk for hours on end and it doesn't log me out. Not sure what the difference would be. ...in bed. |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.11 23:04:00 -
[145]
AFK cloakers are harmless.
it's the ones that are not AFK that you must be careful of.
...and which ones are? well, that's your job to find out. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Melodee619
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.10.12 02:38:00 -
[146]
you lads still fighting over this, its been months. Simple fact is, if you ratters are too scared to leave POS when a solo "afk'er" shows up.... you really shouldn't be in 0.0 in first place :).
One Recon/force or a solo SB, cant do **** to you so who ares if he is gathering info on movements, one way or other a Cyno is gonna show up if that is what he's there for,there isnt a damn thing you can do to stop it. If he's just there to **** you off, then get over it or bait him....I know I got baited once when 2 "hulks" mistakenly talked in local about the belt they were in was spawning TS haulers....
It cost me a Hound cos I got stupid. Try flying a cov ops before demanding nerfs, an you will find they are anything but the invincibility machines you seem to think they are :)
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Milan Nantucket
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Posted - 2010.10.12 02:41:00 -
[147]
The fix is easy.. find a different system to macro err... I mean rat in.
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VC General
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Posted - 2010.10.12 09:33:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Gibbo3771 The solar panels on my loki soak up enough energy to Perma run my cloak. Just knocked a huge hole in your logic.
Now go away
How does it do that when the sunlight just passes through or bounces off?
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