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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:43:00 -
[1]
What the heck ? Who and how did they get that ? Or is it some kind of insta-after-patch bug ? They're not supposed to be available in any way, shape nor form TODAY.
There are orders are for 2 units of each material for sale in "Jita44", order timestamp under 30 days and roughly 10 seconds apart.
Yes, that's as of a couple of minutes ago on TQ. Click thumbnails for larger view.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:48:00 -
[2]
And now there's 2 more orders, each for 1x Self-Harmonizing Power Core, placed roughly 12 minutes later...
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:49:00 -
[3]
buy one and see if a player name comes up?Maybe a dev is playing with the market knowledge is power |
Abraxias
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:49:00 -
[4]
Some in Amarr as well.
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beautyispain
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:51:00 -
[5]
Edited by: beautyispain on 27/05/2010 00:51:08 Well guys... If you take a POS module and reprocess it, then what happens? :) Check the newly seeded POS module bpo's for details
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: beautyispain Edited by: beautyispain on 27/05/2010 00:51:08 Well guys... If you take a POS module and reprocess it, then what happens? :) Check the newly seeded POS module bpo's for details
Confirming you can make a fortune from buying NPC POS modules and reprocessing them to sell.
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Rebal 88
Minmatar Koalition of Konsiderably Kourteous Kapsuleers
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:53:00 -
[7]
Originally by: beautyispain Edited by: beautyispain on 27/05/2010 00:51:08 Well guys... If you take a POS module and reprocess it, then what happens? :) Check the newly seeded POS module bpo's for details
Ohhhhhh maaaaan.. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:57:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2010 01:00:39
They forgot to make them non-re-processable ? I mean, figures, they couldn't be bothered to let T3 subsystem get reprocessed, but they leave something like this re-processable ? ROFL.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:01:00 -
[9]
Heh heh.
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beautyispain
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:01:00 -
[10]
Edited by: beautyispain on 27/05/2010 01:01:25
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2010 00:58:41
ROFL they forgot to make them non-re-processable ?
I can't really see how that makes any difference :) Who buys these things anyway? You can always buy the npc items and reprocess them yourself.
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:02:00 -
[11]
So, we can begin to manufacture POS and POS modules =)
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Abraxias
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: wakalaka So, we can begin to manufacture POS and POS modules =)
If you want to, while they are still available on the NPC market.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: beautyispain I can't really see how that makes any difference :)
Meh, it doesn't really matter all that much when you think of the exploitability potential (you could wiggle some profit from it higher than just buying and holding the entire structure, but not much more than just keeping the structure intact for later sale), yet it's still kind of nasty that they let you do that now, while the items are still NPC-sold.
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Menkaure
Amarr LEM0N
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:09:00 -
[14]
I don't see the big deal really, if you can get them through reprocessing stuff. I mean why would anyone buy them at (what will probably turn out to be) a hideously inflated price?
Repro POS mods to make... POS mods?
Unless I'm missing something, it really doesn't matter.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 01:14:47 yup doesn't matter because technically poses are still on the market so why would i buy inflated product when i can probably aquire 1000x planet goo at 1000% lower price at june 8 the guy doing it prolly isn't thinking clearly. knowledge is power |
wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:17:00 -
[16]
The "exploit" would be that with the reprocessed P4 materials from certain modules, you could be able to build something else with a cost under NPC sell price.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:20:00 -
[17]
Well, you could hope to unload SOME of the "junkier" ones at inflated prices (compared to where they'll end up) early on, be it to people that actually want to manufacture stuff or early thrill-seekers... then wait for the difficult-to-produce ones to go up in price, and make some more ISK compared to just holding onto the NPC-purchased structure. Yeah, it's needlessly convoluted, but still... weird.
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Germaldi's sister
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:21:00 -
[18]
u can buy pos bpo's & mods bpo's now
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Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:24:00 -
[19]
lol server reboot, anyone think its because of this?
Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
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Abraxias
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sader Rykane lol server reboot, anyone think its because of this?
No.
Probably due to POS issue.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:39:00 -
[21]
Seems like we're going to have a market stocked with PI materials before the CC's hit the market then.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:50:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2010 01:56:45
And also, depending on actual number of materials each "thingy" is composed of, you could theoretically buy some of the POS modules, reprocess, and build some other POS modules (or whatever), selling the latter BELOW NPC sales price at a profit in the following weeks...
notsureifpossible.jpg
edit : Damn, ninja'd by wakalaka waaaaay before (didn't notice the post) !
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Menkaure
Amarr LEM0N
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Akita T Well, you could hope to unload SOME of the "junkier" ones at inflated prices (compared to where they'll end up) early on, be it to people that actually want to manufacture stuff or early thrill-seekers... then wait for the difficult-to-produce ones to go up in price, and make some more ISK compared to just holding onto the NPC-purchased structure. Yeah, it's needlessly convoluted, but still... weird.
Originally by: Akita T be it to people that actually want to manufacture stuff or early thrill-seekers
Originally by: Akita T early thrill-seekers
I want to meet the daredevil eveplayer who actually gets his thrills from buying stuff 2 weeks before the rest of us! What a man! What balls!
Tyrannis... is... INDY EXTREEEEEMEEEE....
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 02:03:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Menkaure I want to meet the daredevil eveplayer who actually gets his thrills from buying stuff 2 weeks before the rest of us! What a man! What balls! Tyrannis... is... INDY EXTREEEEEMEEEE....
Extreme ? This... is... JITAAAAAAA!
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Lhun
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.05.27 03:05:00 -
[25]
is this fixed?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 03:14:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2010 03:14:12
Originally by: Lhun is this fixed?
Apparently, no
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.27 04:31:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2010 01:00:39
They forgot to make them non-re-processable ? I mean, figures, they couldn't be bothered to let T3 subsystem get reprocessed, but they leave something like this re-processable ? ROFL.
Accoding to one of the CCPs on Sisi a couple of weeks ago being able to reprocess is intended behaviour, after all they allow you to melt Frigates (Probes was the exact example I was given) (and yes I know about T3, so did they suposedly its not the same thing )
Granted this is a clasic oops moment in CCP history.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 05:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Granted this is a clasic oops moment in CCP history.
The market volume spike of "good to reprocess" POS structures is not really overwhelming... yet. Let's see what happens as soon as people start to wake up, patch and go to "work" And then, there's the weekend, when all hell will probably break loose.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.27 05:41:00 -
[29]
The idea that CCP did that on purpose to get people into the PI business and get them interested didn't occur to you, did it?
Actually, that is a pretty clever way to get the market started.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 05:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gnulpie The idea that CCP did that on purpose to get people into the PI business and get them interested didn't occur to you, did it?
Not even for a split second. Because it was just a side-effect of PI getting delayed but Tyrannis getting launched.
Quote: Actually, that is a pretty clever way to get the market started.
[sarcasm]Oh, yes, why didn't I think of that... start up a new RSI-inducing branch of the industry by basically NPC-seeding the final tier products ! And give people several weeks to stockpile as much as they want ! Breathe life into it by shooting it in the foot, twice ![/sarcasm]
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.27 06:10:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 27/05/2010 06:17:36
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Gnulpie The idea that CCP did that on purpose to get people into the PI business and get them interested didn't occur to you, did it?
Not even for a split second. Because it was just a side-effect of PI getting delayed but Tyrannis getting launched.
Quote: Actually, that is a pretty clever way to get the market started.
[sarcasm]Oh, yes, why didn't I think of that... start up a new RSI-inducing branch of the industry by basically NPC-seeding the final tier products ! And give people several weeks to stockpile as much as they want ! Breathe life into it by shooting it in the foot, twice ![/sarcasm]
yep
they bascialy just pushed back profitability by 2-3 months, if there was ever going to be that mutch real profitability beyond not needing to buy your own posfuel-T2 bits off the npc market in the first place.
Lets review, the exact same development team that
blatantly missed the Reactor exploit untill it was spelled out to them
had to be batted over the head repetedly untill they realised that there T3 numbers were pure horse****
took several years to realise that Some T1 modules that were npc droped were part of the mineral glut on the marketplace
Is STILL needing to tinker with minerals on drone dropings
probably made a minor error in judgment with there roleout of Tyranis.
oh and they have a volcano that occasionaly lets out lil puffs of steam
and BP has a wee oil leak in the gulf .
I could go on but you get my point
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.27 06:11:00 -
[32]
Why should this be 'fixed'? There is nothing 'weird' about this at all. Play manufactured goods SHOULD be recyclable.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 06:49:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari Why should this be 'fixed'? There is nothing 'weird' about this at all. Play manufactured goods SHOULD be recyclable.
Because those things that players are supposed to manufacture are still sold by NPCs ; some other player-manufactured product weren't/aren't reprocessable either. Because the components can't be produced by players for at least another 2 weeks, the only source is NPC sell orders of the very things you are supposed to manufacture ; the only "good" thing about it is the ability to undercut NPC sell orders, and that's actually bad. Because there are discrepancies between several item build components and their NPC sales price when compared to most of the rest ; that also means final-tier PI products can be stockpiled at ridiculously low prices now to be sold later - traders cheer, people that think about doing PI should boo and hiss loudly. Because back in the day when you could reprocess coupling arrays for a lot of tritanium (putting an effective price cap on tritanium prices), they decided to alter the refine amounts ; you COULD do that here too, but then whoever purchased and refined already before the change again has an advantage.
The best course of action right now, IMO, would be to put a TEMPORARY stop on reprocessing of these items, at least UNTIL the NPC sell orders get removed after PI starts ; also, take a good look at build requirements (and therefore also reprocessing yield) of the POS modules in question, re-check to see if they're really intended to be like that, you know, just in case it was actually a mistake.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:23:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Akita T
Because there are discrepancies between several item build components and their NPC sales price when compared to most of the rest ; that also means final-tier PI products can be stockpiled at ridiculously low prices now to be sold later - traders cheer, people that think about doing PI should boo and hiss loudly.
How are you establishing the NPC price of the PI goods? Or are you just looking at POS arrays that cost very little and recycle in to a large quantity of parts? ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 07:24:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Verite Rendition Or are you just looking at POS arrays that cost very little and recycle in to a large quantity of parts?
This.
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Emmanuel Baptiste
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.05.27 10:52:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Emmanuel Baptiste on 27/05/2010 10:52:05 So basically reprocessing POS structures will be a money printing machine until NPC buy orders are removed? Has CCP said what they are going to do about this?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 11:26:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Emmanuel Baptiste So basically reprocessing POS structures will be a money printing machine until NPC buy orders are removed?
Not exactly. More like, "buy stuff really cheap, work it a bit, then try to sell the result to other players that have no idea what's going on close to the old price". Or, better still "stock up on truckloads of NPC stuff that will eventually get much, much more expensive because only players will be able to make it with lots of effort". It's a limited run money printing machine, the more people use it, the less each one gets.
Quote: Has CCP said what they are going to do about this?
Not a peep. Yet.
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.27 11:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Emmanuel Baptiste So basically reprocessing POS structures will be a money printing machine until NPC buy orders are removed?
Not exactly. More like, "buy stuff really cheap, work it a bit, then try to sell the result to other players that have no idea what's going on close to the old price". Or, better still "stock up on truckloads of NPC stuff that will eventually get much, much more expensive because only players will be able to make it with lots of effort". It's a limited run money printing machine, the more people use it, the less each one gets.
Quote: Has CCP said what they are going to do about this?
Not a peep. Yet.
Of course there's always the risk that it turns out it really isnt that hard to manufacture these goods which means you'll be left stuck with a pile of resources no one really wants.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2010.05.27 11:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Cailais
Of course there's always the risk that it turns out it really isnt that hard to manufacture these goods which means you'll be left stuck with a pile of resources no one really wants.
If that is the case, CCP did not only shoot the 'Pooch(tm)', but resurrected it and blew it up for good measure.
The only thing that can make it less of a pain to manufacture is to either increase the output of the extractors or decrease the materials needed for the different end products. Either way, that would make POS structures insanely cheap to produce, something CCP shouldn't be aiming at
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:32:00 -
[40]
The only question is whether this will cause them to pull the NPC goods from the market earlier than their original plan. If not we're going to see amusingly large quantities of Tier 4 PI goods flood the market before anyone can make a single piece of T1 PI goods.
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:50:00 -
[41]
God, please let any other space-sim game release soon. Im so tired of this crap.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:54:00 -
[42]
You just had to post that ...
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Letrange The only question is whether this will cause them to pull the NPC goods from the market earlier than their original plan. If not we're going to see amusingly large quantities of Tier 4 PI goods flood the market before anyone can make a single piece of T1 PI goods.
The thing is, wouldnt the end products (i.e sov and POS structures) have rocketed in price without a existing flow of materials to manufacture them? Im assuming there would be a time lag between players dropping PI structures and ramping up production of the BPO material requirements. Over that time lag there would continue to be a high demand for those structures (upon which alliance sov depends).
Remove the base materials and the means to construct sov structures and I thnik we'd have seen some pretty short and intense Null Sec Wars, massive price spikes for sov structures and an almighty whine from null sec alliances as a result.
It may not be deliberate but I think this will achieve a 'softer landing' into PI production over the long term.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Cailais Of course there's always the risk that it turns out it really isnt that hard to manufacture these goods which means you'll be left stuck with a pile of resources no one really wants.
Well, let's see... assuming all end-tier products would roughly cost the same (more on that later), there's this one structure where you get "P4" (PI tier 4, end-tier) at roughly 300k a piece, and there's some other structure where you get other variations of P4 at roughly 500k a piece, several others vary too... but if you do it with a control tower, you end up with one costing nearly 2 mil a piece. And those might not even be the most extreme sides of the equation. Still, the lowball so far (300k-ish) is worth remembering.
Now, back to why P4 products would probably end up costing more or less the same - it's because 5 of 8 of the P4s are built from the same number of sub-components (3x 6xP3), and there is a small variation with the other 3 of 8 (2x 6xP3 + 40xP2), but that ends up being around 70% of the price of the other 5 (or thereabouts) overall resource-wise. The main deciding factor in price will be how much players value their time restarting extractors, hauling stuff between planets (you CAN NOT build a P4 with resources of a single planet - you can barely build a few of the P3s with the resources of a single planet, the rest of P3s require at least two planet types - it requires a combination of multiple planets to get that rolling).
Now, if I remember correctly, at least for those involved in P4 production, it goes like this: 3000x raw -> 20x P1 (every 30m in basic center) ; 2x 40x P1 -> 5x P2 (every 1h in advanced center) ; 2x 10x P2 -> 3x P3 (every 1h in advanced center) ; 3x 6x P3 -> 1x P4 (every 1h in high-tech center). Overall, to make P4s in continuous fire, you need the output of 6 advanced centers making P3s, each needing the output of 4 advanced centers making P2s (24 here plus 6 before makes 30), each of which needs the output of 2 basic centers (half cycle time, yay ; so 48 basic centers). Each basic center needs 6000 units of materials per hour (3000 every half-hour), and that's more than a typical extractor on a very good planet can provide. In fact, you can pretty much assume on average 2 or even 3 extractors per basic center (so 96-144 extractors total)... heck, let's make that a nice and round 120 extractors on average. So... hmmm... 1x P4 = 120 extractors (96000 MW, 24000 tf) + 48 basic factories (9600 MW, 38400 tf) + 30 advanced factories (21000 MW, 15000 tf) + 1 high-tech center (400 MW, 1100 tf)... plus all the other necessary amenities, like plenty of spaceports (the very least 6, probably much more) and all necessary links... umm, yeah, that's pretty much at the very upper limit of what a completely maxed-out character working the optimal set of decent-density-of-materials planets can pull off, by probably working for well over one hour each day (just restarting the extractors alone should take well over half an hour, probably closer to one full hour), probably even over two hours total if you also take into account the hauling to and from planets and so on and so forth. So, at best, almost two hours of grueling work each day, AND all the import/export taxes, you're left with at most 24 (probably just 23) P4 items to show for... so, let's be generous and say 15x P4 per worked hour. I don't know about you, but I'd certainly NOT bother parting with my P4 for under 1 mil the very least, probably closer or over 2 mil a piece.
So... yeah... see where this is going ?
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:27:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Akita T
So... yeah... see where this is going ?
Those small xxx batteries are looking quite tasty right about now...
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Psionist
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:31:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Psionist on 27/05/2010 13:31:00 So its kind of like mining except less work?
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:35:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Psionist Edited by: Psionist on 27/05/2010 13:31:00 So its kind of like mining except less work?
and less risk
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:41:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Psionist So its kind of like mining except less work?
No, it's like a bastard child of reaction POSes and mining, with not just more work but also more annoying (RSI-inducing) work, yet with less catastrophic failure risk for the time being (there is a real risk of drastically reduced income in case you start unwillingly sharing a planet) and much lower entry barriers (ISK-wise).
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:06:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Psionist So its kind of like mining except less work?
No, it's like a bastard child of reaction POSes and mining, with not just more work but also more annoying (RSI-inducing) work, yet with less catastrophic failure risk for the time being (there is a real risk of drastically reduced income in case you start unwillingly sharing a planet) and much lower entry barriers (ISK-wise).
well there is a "bit" of an isk barrier for the BPO side of PI. But not as much as say Capital ship BPOs (except one of them).
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Lhun
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:13:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Psionist So its kind of like mining except less work?
No, it's like a bastard child of reaction POSes and mining, with not just more work but also more annoying (RSI-inducing) work, yet with less catastrophic failure risk for the time being (there is a real risk of drastically reduced income in case you start unwillingly sharing a planet) and much lower entry barriers (ISK-wise).
Do we know for sure that CCP is going to stop selling POS structures come june 8th?
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:14:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Cailais Of course there's always the risk that it turns out it really isnt that hard to manufacture these goods which means you'll be left stuck with a pile of resources no one really wants.
Well, let's see... {lots of numbers that made my poor brain hurt!! Curse you Akita!!}
So... yeah... see where this is going ?
I do see your point, and that's all valid assuming just ONE player attempts to make a end P4 tier product. But in all honesty is that really efficient? Im assuming most sensible players will pitch in at varying levels with P4 manufactures just importing in the P3 materials they need. Im not much of an industrialist but if I build a ship I sure as heck dont build all the components, and mine the minerals myself.
Also there might be a little bit more price pressure on those P4s that require items that are also used else where (e.g POS fuels, water for booster production etc).
Assuming that happens then I expect the price of P4 will be just a little above the 500K mark (though not by much)as each stage of the process aims to achieve a mark up.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Lhun
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:24:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Lhun on 27/05/2010 14:24:39 if ccp stops selling POS modules here's what's going to happen.
The high difficulty/teamwork needed to produce P4 items will cause their prices to skyrocket. The smart people who are melting down pos stuff right now stand to make a large profit off P4 items if they WAIT FOR THE MARKET TO STABILIZE. Otherwise, they're actually going to drive prices down due to market saturation.
Secondly, alliances will be making their own items that previously would cost a fair bit off the market to keep costs internal and related to time, not isk. posguns, TCUs, SBUs and the like. You stand to gain a lot if items such as these require lots of P4 reactions.
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:31:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Cailais on 27/05/2010 14:31:39
Originally by: Lhun Edited by: Lhun on 27/05/2010 14:24:39 if ccp stops selling POS modules here's what's going to happen.
The high difficulty/teamwork needed to produce P4 items will cause their prices to skyrocket. The smart people who are melting down pos stuff right now stand to make a large profit off P4 items if they WAIT FOR THE MARKET TO STABILIZE. Otherwise, they're actually going to drive prices down due to market saturation.
Secondly, alliances will be making their own items that previously would cost a fair bit off the market to keep costs internal and related to time, not isk. posguns, TCUs, SBUs and the like. You stand to gain a lot if items such as these require lots of P4 reactions.
Im not sure why everyone thinks producing P4 items is going to be so difficult?
My expectation is that, pretty much every man and his dog will drop a PCC on a planet in the next few weeks. That means the market will be flooded very fast with P1 items - admittedly those resources wont be very centralised at first. The bottle kneck is more likely to occur at the P2 / P3 stage which requires a bit more than just a basic PCC but if youre serious about PI youre likely to want to move direct to P4. Nevertheless there should be a good degree of amateur industrialist manufacturing just to this level.
The uber keen PI industrialist wont bother with stages P1 -3 but will go direct to manufacture on planets of the P4 items and will just haul in the resources they need. Pretty easy in my view.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:40:00 -
[54]
Quote:
and BP has a wee oil leak in the gulf .
Hopefully BP was not involved in beta testing the PI extractors...
Quote:
The uber keen PI industrialist wont bother with stages P1 -3 but will go direct to manufacture on planets of the P4 items and will just haul in the resources they need. Pretty easy in my view.
Everyone and their dogs learned to go reactions all up to finished T2 items and even titans are so under inflation that some guys sold the BPOs at NPC price. PI will just follow the same way.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Psionist
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:59:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Psionist on 27/05/2010 14:59:50
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Everyone and their dogs learned to go reactions all up to finished T2 items and even titans are so under inflation that some guys sold the BPOs at NPC price. PI will just follow the same way.
Can someone translate this to English for me?
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:01:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Psionist Edited by: Psionist on 27/05/2010 14:59:50
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Everyone and their dogs learned to go reactions all up to finished T2 items and even titans are so under inflation that some guys sold the BPOs at NPC price. PI will just follow the same way.
Can someone translate this to English for me?
I think he meant that everyone now manufactures all of the items for a T2 ship themselves, even Titans.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Psionist
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:05:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Psionist Edited by: Psionist on 27/05/2010 14:59:50
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Everyone and their dogs learned to go reactions all up to finished T2 items and even titans are so under inflation that some guys sold the BPOs at NPC price. PI will just follow the same way.
Can someone translate this to English for me?
I think he meant that everyone now manufactures all of the items for a T2 ship themselves, even Titans.
C.
Thank you. Is he correct?
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:08:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Akita T
Because those things that players are supposed to manufacture are still sold by NPCs ; (snipped)...
So the point is the supply is essentially infinite, however the demand (for POS modules) is very definitely finite. Therefore the price will rapidly crash.
It's a typical patch day bubble, that will be very quickly deflated. I can't see it lasting 24 hours never mind two weeks to fully patch.
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.27 15:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cailais My expectation is that, pretty much every man and his dog will drop a PCC on a planet
low (or mid-grade) PCC on couple of planets on average
Originally by: Cailais in the next few weeks.
half of every man with the dog won't bother with this clickfest anymore unless it will get them decent income.
So either there will be more than enough macros (as in most "exciting" aspects of EVE such as mining and courrier missions) and "PI products are free!" idiots to cover demand or prices will be high enough to compencate every half of average man and his half-dog for all the clicks. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:09:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2010 18:16:44
Originally by: Cailais My expectation is that, pretty much every man and his dog will drop a PCC on a planet in the next few weeks. That means the market will be flooded very fast with P1 items - admittedly those resources wont be very centralised at first. The bottle kneck is more likely to occur at the P2 / P3 stage which requires a bit more than just a basic PCC but if youre serious about PI youre likely to want to move direct to P4. Nevertheless there should be a good degree of amateur industrialist manufacturing just to this level.
The numbers DON'T change for the better ("cheaper"). Overall, you need ~120 extractors (could be as little as 48 if you only use 5-hour cycles and start at least 3 cycles per day on awesome-location planets, could be as much as 144 if you don't hit quite the right resource hotspots and only use 23h cycles ; 120 was used as a reasonable middle-ground with occasionally alternating cycles but mostly on 23-h ones), 48 basic processors, 30 advanced processors, 1 high tech processor and 6 (but probably many more) spaceports to get 1x P4 per hour.
Whether that happens on ONE character with 6x elite command centers on awesome-high resource planets, or on 10 characters with 5x advanced comand centers on meh-acceptable resource planets, the numbers above won't get any lower (they'd actually be much higher with the second variant, as you'd need much more extractors than the ~120 mentioned, probably as many as 288 or so... also, many, MANY more spaceports, up to 50 instead of just the bare minimum 6).
Oh, and that's 1x P4 per hour, BUT per hour of in-game time passed... so, a max of 24x P4 per day passed for all those facilities are being kept operational... but all of that ALSO "costs" anywhere from 1-2 hours of work per day of a single man, to maybe 10-15 total hours of actual work per day spread across as many as 10 people. Obviously, the "cheapest" overall scenario will be that of the guy running the 6xelite setup on rich 0.0/w-space planets, not from the 10 guys running 5xadvanced each on meh-yield highsec/lowsec planets.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Musical Fist
Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:14:00 -
[61]
Originally by: beautyispain Edited by: beautyispain on 27/05/2010 00:51:08 Well guys... If you take a POS module and reprocess it, then what happens? :) Check the newly seeded POS module bpo's for details
I am pretty shocked at Akita out of all people not only not knowing this but not even doing it
REALLY SHOCKED!!
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:14:00 -
[62]
From then price of some npc sold modules (cyno system jammer) you can figure that the average costs for the planetary raw materials (like felsic magma) IN AVERAGE are around 0,70 isk per unit. That doesn't include costs for import/export, setting up PI and running it etc.
Assuming 0,70 isk per unit you can come up that pos fuel like enriched uranium and mechanical parts are around 2000 isk, oxygen 100 and robotics like 12000.
Doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
The only bad thing is that you can't reprocess the p4 items and get the lower level materials. |
mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:36:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Gnulpie From then price of some npc sold modules (cyno system jammer) you can figure that the average costs for the planetary raw materials (like felsic magma) IN AVERAGE are around 0,70 isk per unit. That doesn't include costs for import/export, setting up PI and running it etc.
Assuming 0,70 isk per unit you can come up that pos fuel like enriched uranium and mechanical parts are around 2000 isk, oxygen 100 and robotics like 12000.
Doesn't seem that unreasonable to me.
The only bad thing is that you can't reprocess the p4 items and get the lower level materials.
It's totally unreasonable. At .7 isk per unit (of basic materials), a skilled character producing 24 P4s a day (takes 1-2 hours per day), and assuming no margins for higher level reactions (as in P4s sell for strictly the cost of their P1 components), he will be making 6.4m isk a day. At that level, nobody will do PI.
We would then have a strange scenario where the lower level products sell for far more than the end P4 product's component costs, but even then stocks won't last forever and eventually P4s would be worth much more given enough time (look at technetium).
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:42:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Musical Fist I am pretty shocked at Akita out of all people not only not knowing this but not even doing it
Well, who the bloody hell thought to even TRY to reprocess POS structures anyway ? Their mistake was getting greedy and putting them up on the market so I could notice and "investigate". BTW, that was the best well-spent 2 mil ISK for one item, and I am probably the first proud buyer of P4 stuff in EVE
As for not doing it... hey, it's "not doing it YET" Shockingly, I do have a semblance of moral-like standards when it comes to making ISK off of CCP's oversights. But they're incredibly lax
Originally by: Gnulpie From then price of some npc sold modules (cyno system jammer) you can figure that the average costs for the planetary raw materials (like felsic magma) IN AVERAGE are around 0,70 isk per unit. That doesn't include costs for import/export, setting up PI and running it etc. Assuming 0,70 isk per unit you can come up that pos fuel like enriched uranium and mechanical parts are around 2000 isk, oxygen 100 and robotics like 12000. Doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. The only bad thing is that you can't reprocess the p4 items and get the lower level materials.
Yeah, except that cyno system jammers yield via reprocessing P4s at nearly 1/10 of the "cost" compared to, say, reprocessing towers. So, take those numbers, and bump them UP one order of magnitude... 20k mechanical parts, 1k oxygen, 120k robotics, etc. Ok, maybe not quite that much, but half of that, very likely.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:50:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Musical Fist I am pretty shocked at Akita out of all people not only not knowing this but not even doing it
Well, who the bloody hell thought to even TRY to reprocess POS structures anyway ?
actualy I did, simply because I wanted to run diferent Bpos and getting the mats was a royal pain in the ass so I would scrap any finsished modules as soon as I got them Quote: Their mistake was getting greedy and putting them up on the market so I could notice and "investigate". BTW, that was the best well-spent 2 mil ISK for one item, and I am probably the first proud buyer of P4 stuff in EVE
As for not doing it... hey, it's "not doing it YET" Shockingly, I do have a semblance of moral-like standards when it comes to making ISK off of CCP's oversights. But they're incredibly lax
Originally by: Gnulpie From then price of some npc sold modules (cyno system jammer) you can figure that the average costs for the planetary raw materials (like felsic magma) IN AVERAGE are around 0,70 isk per unit. That doesn't include costs for import/export, setting up PI and running it etc. Assuming 0,70 isk per unit you can come up that pos fuel like enriched uranium and mechanical parts are around 2000 isk, oxygen 100 and robotics like 12000. Doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. The only bad thing is that you can't reprocess the p4 items and get the lower level materials.
Yeah, except that cyno system jammers yield via reprocessing P4s at nearly 1/10 of the "cost" compared to, say, reprocessing towers. So, take those numbers, and bump them UP one order of magnitude... 20k mechanical parts, 1k oxygen, 120k robotics, etc. Ok, maybe not quite that much, but half of that, very likely.
pff make money however you want. in the end it will disapear in one of the sinks sooner or later
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.05.27 19:37:00 -
[66]
whether PI goods crash or skyrocket in price in the long term depends mostly on how hard it is to macro PI. The secondary factor is how much CCP messes with it after, but I think the smart money there is definitely on "once or twice soon and then never again"
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 20:22:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Steve Thomas pff make money however you want. in the end it will disapear in one of the sinks sooner or later
That assumes I'm spending it on stuff instead of using it to make more My wallet is an EVE ISK sink
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.27 20:33:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 27/05/2010 20:36:03 i've officially gone from 'intrigued and amused' to 'horrified'
even if the prices aren't sustainable at 200-300k/unit, the prices could hover there or worse for a very long time if this bug/featurette gets overused, which could result in a corresponding drop in POS and outpost costs...10x or so? deathstars for under 100m? a 3b isk outpost in every other system?
the apocalypse has come _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:05:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 27/05/2010 20:36:03 i've officially gone from 'intrigued and amused' to 'horrified'
even if the prices aren't sustainable at 200-300k/unit, the prices could hover there or worse for a very long time if this bug/featurette gets overused, which could result in a corresponding drop in POS and outpost costs...10x or so? deathstars for under 100m? a 3b isk outpost in every other system?
the apocalypse has come
this is EvE
Akita has basicaly just waves the red flag of how to make a ****load of money now from the Developers latest screwup in everyones face.
Now the betting is how long its going to take *THIS* FUBAR to work itself out of the system.
Ironicaly theres another FUBAR that the developers have left in. but thank the evil gods that ones fairly small.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:17:00 -
[70]
Originally by: The Breadmaster You dont even have to do the math... its blatantly obvious from the forge volumes on the hot-to-reprocess bits : Moon miner, Rapid equip, cyno sys jammer Those are the three to mix and match for building towers. Key ingredients are integrity response drone, nano factory, and sterile conduits. And no 100M is way off the mark per tower. You can build them at 100M and have oodles of leftovers... more like 100M for large tower + ALL bits (guns, reactors, whatever). +1 for server roll back I doubt they have the manpower to rework their entire economic model for Tyrannis to account for it at this point.
He didn't mention several other options (like cyno gens, for instance), but those he named are pretty much the "nicest" ones anyway.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:23:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Akita has basicaly just waves the red flag of how to make a ****load of money now from the Developers latest screwup in everyones face.
It's like "ZOMG Tractor Beams!!!" all over again, but this time it's actually happening
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:23:00 -
[72]
Can you give it like a week before posting this type of information so I can bleed the market dry and make a fortune, Akita T? I swear, my profits go down the more Akita T posts. Thankfully you were slow on the nocx/isogen change - It's not "Play through a pre-set story, become stronger, do endgame". Gameplay is open ended, and you make your own story. Unless you're too afraid of 'pvp grief' to do anything relevant |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:28:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Vaal Erit I swear, my profits go down the more Akita T posts.
Unlike a pirate, I'm a bit of a carebear, but I still collect the other kind of carebear tears
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:35:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Steve Thomas Akita has basicaly just waves the red flag of how to make a ****load of money now from the Developers latest screwup in everyones face.
It's like "ZOMG Tractor Beams!!!" all over again, but this time it's actually happening
people wonder why I play EvE
In part its days like this.
in part its days like that.
Honestly the real game is PvD
theres days when its fish in barrel
and theres days when its Fish in a barrel of raw Nitroglycerin
the best thing to do is have fun while you have a blast trying to figure out which sides actualy in the barrel
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:36:00 -
[75]
With even just a few people dumping 1-200 bil into this it could permanently damage the viability of the PI economy. This is hilarious. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:40:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2010 23:40:59
Originally by: Bellum Eternus With even just a few people dumping 1-200 bil into this it could permanently damage the viability of the PI economy.
Just like with technetium, I shall await until last minute to also jump in and multiply my ISK If they fix it before, well, no big loss... if they somehow revert/nerf it... loss avoided.
Originally by: Steve Thomas // Bellum Eternus Honestly the real game is PvD // This is hilarious.
Player vs Developer, that's golden Should we add "CCP dev tears" to the list of things people collect ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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JitaEspion
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:44:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus With even just a few people dumping 1-200 bil into this it could permanently damage the viability of the PI economy. This is hilarious.
If you look at the Forge market volume for today 200B has ALREADY been dumped into this. Just wait for the weekend.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:48:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus With even just a few people dumping 1-200 bil into this it could permanently damage the viability of the PI economy. This is hilarious.
well not permanently
but
EvE online account 19.95 Ongoing subscription to EvE online 1 Month EVE Subscription (14.95 USD) 3 Month EVE Subscription (38.85 USD) 6 Month EVE Subscription (71.70 USD) 12 Month EVE Subscription (131.40 USD)
One-Year Subscription E-ON Magazine:$55.95
Watching a 10 year old game development company continue to make newbi developer mistakes year after year?
Priceless!
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:54:00 -
[79]
Originally by: JitaEspion
Originally by: Bellum Eternus With even just a few people dumping 1-200 bil into this it could permanently damage the viability of the PI economy. This is hilarious.
If you look at the Forge market volume for today 200B has ALREADY been dumped into this. Just wait for the weekend.
Yeah, I'm just saying how little ISK it would take to ruin PI for the near future (12 months at least). I can see alliances easily dumping half a TRILLION ISK EACH into this if it's allowed to continue, which it will be, because CCP isn't fast enough to fix it. This could well end up being one of the worst CCP f*ck ups in the history of the game. Again, hilarious. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:56:00 -
[80]
Chances of this being reverted/calles a sploit/not being touched and destroying PI, in order of chance of happening please? Need to see if its worth jumping into this only to find out 19h later its been plugged and i now have a few assets i don't need. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 23:59:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 00:01:26
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I can see alliances easily dumping half a TRILLION ISK EACH into this if it's allowed to continue, which it will be, because CCP isn't fast enough to fix it. This could well end up being one of the worst CCP f*ck ups in the history of the game. Again, hilarious.
I nominate PIPOCALYPSE-NOW! for the "Worst CCP Screwup EVER" Award Let's recap : lowering value of most POS/outpost/sov related things almost one order of magnitude PLUS almost one entire expansion rendered pointless.
Any other contenders ? Maybe boot.ini, but that one wasn't nearly half as bad.
Originally by: Blane Xero Chances of this being reverted/calles a sploit/not being touched and destroying PI, in order of chance of happening please? Need to see if its worth jumping into this only to find out 19h later its been plugged and i now have a few assets i don't need.
Not being touched and PI gone up in flames : 55% Reprocess freeze and/or component makeup altering : 25% Being lightly altered so PI gets barely by : 15% (it's quite difficult at this point) Server rollback : 5% (never happened before, doubt it will ever happen)
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:08:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 00:01:26
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I can see alliances easily dumping half a TRILLION ISK EACH into this if it's allowed to continue, which it will be, because CCP isn't fast enough to fix it. This could well end up being one of the worst CCP f*ck ups in the history of the game. Again, hilarious.
I nominate PIPOCALYPSE-NOW! for the "Worst CCP Screwup EVER" Award Let's recap : lowering value of most POS/outpost/sov related things almost one order of magnitude PLUS almost one entire expansion rendered pointless.
Any other contenders ? Maybe boot.ini, but that one wasn't nearly half as bad.
Originally by: Blane Xero Chances of this being reverted/calles a sploit/not being touched and destroying PI, in order of chance of happening please? Need to see if its worth jumping into this only to find out 19h later its been plugged and i now have a few assets i don't need.
Not being touched and PI gone up in flames : 55% Reprocess freeze and/or component makeup altering : 25% Being lightly altered so PI gets barely by : 15% (it's quite difficult at this point) Server rollback : 5% (never happened before, doubt it will ever happen)
They could simply delete any/all PI materials generated before the official release of the PI command centers, but that wouldn't really fix the problem of all those POS mods if they're not reprocessed yet.
Either way this is a huuuge mess (I'm not really complaining, as I don't care one way or the other). This is the best entertainment yet. Frankly, I'm just staying completely out of it myself. I can't be bothered to worry about it one way or the other. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:20:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Either way this is a huuuge mess (I'm not really complaining, as I don't care one way or the other). This is the best entertainment yet. Frankly, I'm just staying completely out of it myself. I can't be bothered to worry about it one way or the other.
I'm letting others remove the hot potatoes Watching the drama unfold is reward enough.
To be honest, at this point, the sheer mass of people that will be doing it pretty much implies trade profitability is mostly down the drain (not gone, just lower, and it will go MUCH lower as soon as alliances get into it), the only people that will actually make a "profit" from this is the end-users of POS/sov structures... and not so much profit, just reduced cost. P.I. will still be profitable to some degree, but almost exclusively for POS fuel. Everything else will be a waste of time. Plasma planets FTW (you can build "Robotics" on-site).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:20:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 00:01:26
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I can see alliances easily dumping half a TRILLION ISK EACH into this if it's allowed to continue, which it will be, because CCP isn't fast enough to fix it. This could well end up being one of the worst CCP f*ck ups in the history of the game. Again, hilarious.
I nominate PIPOCALYPSE-NOW! for the "Worst CCP Screwup EVER" Award Let's recap : lowering value of most POS/outpost/sov related things almost one order of magnitude PLUS almost one entire expansion rendered pointless.
Any other contenders ? Maybe boot.ini, but that one wasn't nearly half as bad.
Originally by: Blane Xero Chances of this being reverted/calles a sploit/not being touched and destroying PI, in order of chance of happening please? Need to see if its worth jumping into this only to find out 19h later its been plugged and i now have a few assets i don't need.
Not being touched and PI gone up in flames : 55% Reprocess freeze and/or component makeup altering : 25% Being lightly altered so PI gets barely by : 15% (it's quite difficult at this point) Server rollback : 5% (never happened before, doubt it will ever happen)
They could simply delete any/all PI materials generated before the official release of the PI command centers, but that wouldn't really fix the problem of all those POS mods if they're not reprocessed yet.
Either way this is a huuuge mess (I'm not really complaining, as I don't care one way or the other). This is the best entertainment yet. Frankly, I'm just staying completely out of it myself. I can't be bothered to worry about it one way or the other.
Deleting would be literaly the worst idea they have ever had, after all people spent isk to get them. Rolling back individualy would be a nightmare that increases in scope with every hour that goes by because you end up ****ing on all the people who made legit purchases
(oh and define legit in this case shesh)
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Lhun
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:22:00 -
[85]
lollercoaster.
Man, I'm not sure, but I bet we'll see a lot of new stations going up soon.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:24:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Catari Taga on 28/05/2010 00:26:44
Originally by: Blane Xero Chances of this being reverted/calles a sploit/not being touched and destroying PI, in order of chance of happening please? Need to see if its worth jumping into this only to find out 19h later its been plugged and i now have a few assets i don't need.
Chances are 0. This by design and there's really no way they could prevent it other than make NPC products and player products distinct. I'm frankly surprised people are surprised by this now, this has been on the test server like that long enough. All you market guys should probably go over there once in a while so you know what's coming...
--
Originally by: Zeke Mobius I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:24:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Steve Thomas Deleting would be literaly the worst idea they have ever had, after all people spent isk to get them. Rolling back individualy would be a nightmare that increases in scope with every hour that goes by because you end up ****ing on all the people who made legit purchases
(oh and define legit in this case shesh)
I'm not saying it's a *good* idea lol. All of the 'solutions' at this point are bad. It just depends on which one is the least worst. I'm sure whatever CCP comes up with will be something totally unexpected by everyone and very unique, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be universally disliked and be far worse than anything anyone can currently think of. I can't wait. \o/ -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Claire Dupont
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:31:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Claire Dupont on 28/05/2010 00:31:49
Originally by: Lhun lollercoaster.
Man, I'm not sure, but I bet we'll see a lot of new stations going up soon.
Not sure about this, their is no space left in the northern regions to deploy any new stations. Well, I don't know anything about the remaining space. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:32:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'm sure whatever CCP comes up with will be something totally unexpected by everyone and very unique, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be universally disliked and be far worse than anything anyone can currently think of. I can't wait. \o/
How can something this bad feel so good ? Damn, it's fun watching Rome burn !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:33:00 -
[90]
Imagine if stockpiles last as long as the launch of dust 514. The poor grunts wont have anything to shoot at
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:34:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'm sure whatever CCP comes up with will be something totally unexpected by everyone and very unique, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be universally disliked and be far worse than anything anyone can currently think of. I can't wait. \o/
How can something this bad feel so good ? Damn, it's fun watching Rome burn !
Its like watching the Soviet Union crumble all over again.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:37:00 -
[92]
Originally by: mental maverick Imagine if stockpiles last as long as the launch of dust 514. The poor grunts wont have anything to shoot at
Oh, they already said as much as "Dust514 could work just fine if EVE didn't exist, and vice-versa" since before they introduced DUST at FanFest.
What that most likely means is that there will be plenty of NPC "actors" on both sides (in EVE acting as DUST mercs, and in DUST acting as EVE employers), with only a small percentage of actual interactions being genuine EVE-player vs DUST-merc action. So, they really don't give that much of a damn about this particular link.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:37:00 -
[93]
Unfortunately i cannot source Capital construction parts, and understandably none of the POS mods actually refine to them. Ah well. Another time mr bond. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:43:00 -
[94]
Edited by: mental maverick on 28/05/2010 00:44:36 Akita: Yeah, that would make sense. havent followed the progress of Dust since i most likely wont play it..
Bellum: Im totally with you on this, best post patch day ever. We have a saying in sweden that translates to something like: "schadenfreude is the only true happiness".
I dont think i have ever experienced it at this level before though
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:48:00 -
[95]
They could still salvage this in a relatively graceful manner. Like, say, multiply P4 output by a factor of X (and reduce volume of P4s by the same X factor), then readjust POS/sov build needs of all the "non-exploited" to be mostly *X.
X could be anything between 5 (minimal profit for the guys buying now) to 10 (about breakeven, some losses) or even 20 (just to screw with people that "tried to take advantage of the situation").
I still bet they won't even do that
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Mei tais
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:52:00 -
[96]
Epic. Another bug discovered.
Stack 10 POS mods, and hit reprocces. Now see how muhc the station takes and what you lose in reprocessing.
Now take that same stack of 10, split it in 10 seperate stacks, and look at waste and the amount going to station owner.
FAIL
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:01:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 01:03:59
Bug Report Processed (2 minutes ago) Thank you for your bugreport - ID:95974 Title: CRITICAL ! Adoption of PI threatened by reprocessable POS structures (contents - tl;dr of this thread) "We are already aware of this problem, and have added your bugreport to the existing issue in our defect tracking system."
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:04:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Mei tais Epic. Another bug discovered.
Stack 10 POS mods, and hit reprocces. Now see how muhc the station takes and what you lose in reprocessing.
Now take that same stack of 10, split it in 10 seperate stacks, and look at waste and the amount going to station owner.
FAIL
Known behaviour (it's a rounding issue)- just reprocess at a station you have 0 tax at and you never have to worry about rounding issues due to taxes.
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Mei tais
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:08:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Mei tais on 28/05/2010 01:08:30 Its nice for 0.0 stations though...I gave me about 12% more items with putting everything in stacks of one or two.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:08:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 01:03:59
Bug Report Processed (2 minutes ago) Thank you for your bugreport - ID:95974 Title: CRITICAL ! Adoption of PI threatened by reprocessable POS structures (contents - tl;dr of this thread) "We are already aware of this problem, and have added your bugreport to the existing issue in our defect tracking system."
Lol really? The "fix" is going to be epic. There's no possible way this can end good. :)
--
Originally by: Zeke Mobius I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
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Lhun
Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:10:00 -
[101]
dun dun DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.
Firey emergency maint coming soooooooooooooooon.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:12:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 01:13:26
Originally by: Catari Taga Lol really? The "fix" is going to be epic. There's no possible way this can end good. :)
I have a bugreport from 2007 that's STILL "attached to a defect" (POS resists display when more than one hardener present - displaying non-stack-nerfed value when the actual value used for damage dealt is the stack-nerfed value).
Being "aware" of the bug and actually doing something about it... who knows when the fix will come and what it will be.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:13:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Steve Thomas Deleting would be literaly the worst idea they have ever had, after all people spent isk to get them. Rolling back individualy would be a nightmare that increases in scope with every hour that goes by because you end up ****ing on all the people who made legit purchases
(oh and define legit in this case shesh)
I'm not saying it's a *good* idea lol. All of the 'solutions' at this point are bad. It just depends on which one is the least worst. I'm sure whatever CCP comes up with will be something totally unexpected by everyone and very unique, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be universally disliked and be far worse than anything anyone can currently think of. I can't wait. \o/
1) Change the item ids on the PI materials.
2) Rename the existing PI materials to something like 'used blah blah'.
3) Change reprocessing of pos items so that you either have a very high inherent loss, forbid it completely or give the reprocessed items a different id like in step 1.
Easy to fix.
Yeah, people would scream that they already bought stuff which then becomes useless. So what? That is their risk in trying to exploit some loophole. They hardly can complain if that loophole is closed then.
But in the end it all boils down to how big the income from PI should be. Are the current 0,67 isk per unit of raw material enough? Should it be more? Can it be less?
In my opinion the whole PI is useless at this point anyway because it is nothing much more than a senseless and boring click-orgy, but I voiced my concern long and loud enough on the test-server forums and gave lots of ides how to improve it. Not my problem if the devs won't listen to me or if their management doesn't allow for more dev-time on Eve and instead spend it on Dust and World of Darkness |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:16:00 -
[104]
I honestly dont want to try to estimate this but how much is has this bled out of the economy at this point given that you have to buy said units from an NPC in the first place.
this is going to be so mutch fun for a long time to come
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Elzon1
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:18:00 -
[105]
Wait... aren't planets going to produce millions of m3 per month of basic extractables?
500k+ m3 per hour links anyone?
I don't see how this reprocessing issue is going to be an actual problem. This stuff is supposed to become super cheap... that was their intention
3 billion ISK outposts in every other null sec system. Weren't they trying to get the carebears to null sec
I'm pretty sure they expected this sort of thing to happen honestly. Thanks for getting that stuff out there and crashing the market.... making null sec cheaper to live in one market crash at a time
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:18:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 01:13:26
Originally by: Catari Taga Lol really? The "fix" is going to be epic. There's no possible way this can end good. :)
I have a bugreport from 2007 that's STILL "attached to a defect" (POS resists display when more than one hardener present - displaying non-stack-nerfed value when the actual value used for damage dealt is the stack-nerfed value).
Being "aware" of the bug and actually doing something about it... who knows when the fix will come and what it will be.
Yes of course, I have some of those, too. I was just surprised they are even accepting this as a bug, which I do not think it actually is. And obviously if they do fix it before PI goes live they never will, or so common sense would hope.
--
Originally by: Zeke Mobius I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:22:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Catari Taga I was just surprised they are even accepting this as a bug, which I do not think it actually is. And obviously if they do fix it before PI goes live they never will, or so common sense would hope.
Bug, yes.
Originally by: Glafri Funny, I got this response after a petition which I escelated due to it not being a bug rather an oversight by CCP.
(PARAPHRASING) "Not an exploit. We told the devs. They might change stuff, they might not"
Hope this adds to the confusion.
Exploit, no.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Caia
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:25:00 -
[108]
Devs have better things to do than to fix a bug that will be fixed in 2 weeks. Just sayin'.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:27:00 -
[109]
by which time it will take 7 years for anyone to bother to make the end products with PI. . . .
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Doom Nightmare
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:29:00 -
[110]
*hugs outpost soon to be*
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:34:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Steve Thomas by which time it will take 7 years for anyone to bother to make the end products with PI. . . .
UNLESS they revert their position of "one outpost per system" and allow one outpost at each planet, in which case, the stockpile could evaporate quite quickly
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:35:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Steve Thomas by which time it will take 7 years for anyone to bother to make the end products with PI. . . .
UNLESS they revert their position of "one outpost per system" and allow one outpost at each planet, in which case, the stockpile could evaporate quite quickly
I think that fix would be good in more than 1 way tbh. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:38:00 -
[113]
Hrmm, I see some massive tears in the making. Now just who's tears they end up being will be up to ccp though I'm still going to invest a few bil on this little loophole just because its a piddling amount.
07 Akita.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:38:00 -
[114]
I truely find all of this amusing. I spent 25bil or so before patch on cyno jammers and REAAs assuming that CCP would up the price or stop sale, etc, because this whole mess was so obvious.
Worst case is that i would have lost 25bil as they changed those 2 mods to lower resource-output.
Then the stopped Capital construction parts from coming from the reprocess on Test, and I thought this might work, but "surely they wont screw PI over" and allow it to go on.
Boy was I wrong, lol, CCP seriously, just rollback to patchday, other option is to raise PI output and BPO Mat cost by an order of magnitude.
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Elzon1
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:39:00 -
[115]
Gotta think about when all of null sec is filled with outposts. Some people are going to get mad about the type of outpost in their system without the ability to change it. Its going to happen some day
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.28 01:48:00 -
[116]
Originally by: General Bezelbub Other option is to raise PI output and BPO Mat cost by an order of magnitude.
That would screw up the pos fuel prices like oxygen, mechanical parts and robotics. Also you would need to adjust weight properly or you get problems with routing on the planets and export taxes.
If you just change the advanced commodities schematics and the module blueprints it might work. Give the schematics a 5 times higher output and at the same time give the blueprints a 5 times higher demand. Reduce weight of the advanced commodities by factor 5. Also make modules either unprocessable or give them some inherent high loss.
Shouldn't be difficult to do. Could be done in less than 30 minutes I guess. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:01:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Gnulpie Shouldn't be difficult to do. Could be done in less than 30 minutes I guess.
You have to admit, just throwing a stopgap over those POS modules for now, combined with the idea of allowing one outpost per planet instead of one per system to suck out as much P4s out of the system as fast as possible is much more awesome for several different reasons.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:23:00 -
[118]
Originally by: General Bezelbub Boy was I wrong, lol, CCP seriously, just rollback to patchday, other option is to raise PI output and BPO Mat cost by an order of magnitude.
Eve players love to punish themselves and create work for themselves. They demand it of ccp.
So if the market is completely flooded with massive oversupply that means we get cheap pos, pos mods, outposts and npc trade goods for fuel and certain production items. That means less time grinding to do stuff in game.
It's like people could have fun instead of a second (game) job.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Verite Rendition
Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:24:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Blane Xero Unfortunately i cannot source Capital construction parts, and understandably none of the POS mods actually refine to them. Ah well. Another time mr bond.
Doh! ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:47:00 -
[120]
Those items with good reproc value will merely form the price ceiling for those components a few weeks/months forward. Sky is NOT falling.
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:54:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Those items with good reproc value will merely form the price ceiling for those components a few weeks/months forward. Sky is NOT falling.
That's right the items will form a price ceiling. It's only every P4 item, nothing to worry about.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:04:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 03:05:33
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Those items with good reproc value will merely form the price ceiling for those components a few weeks/months forward. Sky is NOT falling.
Yeah, sure, a minor impediment, eh ?
Like, say, putting the price ceiling of each and every P4 product as low as 180k ISK a piece ? Even if people turn them over at 5 times the profit, that's still 900k per unit... for something that you could BARELY get 24 of per day per character while working up to 2 hours each day ? I mean, sure, you COULD expect people to engage in P4 PI production, but when a maxed-out character working the best possible combination of planets relentlessly can only see at most little over 10 mil ISK/hour of work in deep 0.0 or w-space (that's 2 mil ISK/hour at current obtainable prices), how many people do you think will actually BOTHER with it at all past the initial "let's see how it's done" moment ?!? Sure, the POS fuels MIGHT be marginally attractive to dabble with, but people had more than advanced warning on that one too, and most fellows I know stockpiled anywhere between 3 to 12 month's worth of consumables.
Yeah, the sky is not falling. It's just PRACTICALLY as if the PI expansion would have only launched in winter of 2010 the earliest, because that's about when it MIGHT become attractive enough to bother with in any remotely serious fashion.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:28:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Those items with good reproc value will merely form the price ceiling for those components a few weeks/months forward. Sky is NOT falling.
that still does not solve the other problem in that right now literlay Billions in ISK is flowing out of EVE every hour beyond that of the normal ISK sink rates
Bascialy things are going to be very interesting very soon
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:36:00 -
[124]
At this point, I have basically written off PI and its manufactoring until sometime around Christmas, when I will look at it again.
Until then I can't see it being worth my time doing. Not given that PI will be generating less then a 3 day old character in a bantham mining veld...
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:40:00 -
[125]
Originally by: General Bezelbub At this point, I have basically written off PI
Joking statement : hey, it's your fault and that of people like you ! If you wouldn't have all put up P4 stuff on the market until PI actually hit, it would have been most likely gone unnoticed by the general public, you would have pocketed your nice little winnings and that would have been it.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Mathias Black
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:46:00 -
[126]
Hmmm. Also interesting: I think a lot of people will start doing PI just to check it out and keep their skills up and planets ready for when they hope the market crash will be over (that's what I was thinking) but since all the harvested goods are currently worthless, they'll all just stockpile them hoping to sell them when the market finally picks up, but that actually just compounds the problem and makes the crash last even longer because every planet miner will have huge worthless stockpiles to sell off. Seems like the crash could last more than a few months for sure.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:01:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Mathias Black Hmmm. Also interesting: I think a lot of people will start doing PI just to check it out and keep their skills up and planets ready for when they hope the market crash will be over (that's what I was thinking) but since all the harvested goods are currently worthless, they'll all just stockpile them hoping to sell them when the market finally picks up, but that actually just compounds the problem and makes the crash last even longer because every planet miner will have huge worthless stockpiles to sell off. Seems like the crash could last more than a few months for sure.
its largly self perpetuating after a point. I think we crossed the threshold of that point about oh 14 hours ago for the typical subscriber
Look at the bright side, they have sucsesfuly redefined Pre-nerfed content.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:05:00 -
[128]
What's so dreadfully painful about all this is that CCP revalued Cynojammers and Rapid Equipment Assembly Arrays and Moon Harvesting Arrays correctly. All these modules were selling for far too little relative to their worth.
If they'd just bumped the NPC sell prices to be in line with the new PI build requirements...
Ah well.
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Elzon1
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:11:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Elzon1 on 28/05/2010 04:17:10 Do we know the extraction rates of the planets on Tranquility? Do we know how fast the processors are going to cycle and for how many runs? Are the silos really only going to hold 10k (can't remember the amount they held on SiSi) m3? Are we really going to be needing 500k m3 links in our chains?
I think some people might be jumping the gun with their assumptions
Guess we will see on the 8th huh
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:14:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Alice Celadon What's so dreadfully painful about all this is that CCP revalued Cynojammers and Rapid Equipment Assembly Arrays and Moon Harvesting Arrays correctly. All these modules were selling for far too little relative to their worth.
If they'd just bumped the NPC sell prices to be in line with the new PI build requirements...
Ah well.
thats part of what makes this so painfull to watch.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:20:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Elzon1 Do we know the extraction rates of the planets on Tranquility? Do we know how fast the processors are going to cycle and for how many runs? Are the silos really only going to hold 10k m3? Are we really going to be needing 500k m3 links in our chains?
I think some people might be jumping the gun with their assumptions
Guess we will see on the 8th huh
the release candidate is on sisi for the full up version.
Ive gotten feedback from them. they know that they Bleeped up
they honestly are not sure just how bad yet.
to be fair, neither do I at this point.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Kephael
Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:20:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Kephael on 28/05/2010 04:20:24
Originally by: Elzon1 Edited by: Elzon1 on 28/05/2010 04:17:10 Do we know the extraction rates of the planets on Tranquility? Do we know how fast the processors are going to cycle and for how many runs? Are the silos really only going to hold 10k (can't remember the amount they held on SiSi) m3? Are we really going to be needing 500k m3 links in our chains?
I think some people might be jumping the gun with their assumptions
Guess we will see on the 8th huh
Making large pos towers 120m does not seem realistic. This is clearly an oversight on their part. __________________________________________
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Elzon1
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:31:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Kephael Edited by: Kephael on 28/05/2010 04:20:24
Originally by: Elzon1 Edited by: Elzon1 on 28/05/2010 04:17:10 Do we know the extraction rates of the planets on Tranquility? Do we know how fast the processors are going to cycle and for how many runs? Are the silos really only going to hold 10k (can't remember the amount they held on SiSi) m3? Are we really going to be needing 500k m3 links in our chains?
I think some people might be jumping the gun with their assumptions
Guess we will see on the 8th huh
Making large pos towers 120m does not seem realistic. This is clearly an oversight on their part.
"Realistic"... this is a game if I remember correctly. Just because you think its unrealistic doen't mean CCP does. This could all be a part of CCP's Ebil plan
And outposts for 5 to 8 billion seems just fine to me
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sue denim
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:36:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Elzon1
Originally by: Kephael Edited by: Kephael on 28/05/2010 04:20:24
Originally by: Elzon1 Edited by: Elzon1 on 28/05/2010 04:17:10 Do we know the extraction rates of the planets on Tranquility? Do we know how fast the processors are going to cycle and for how many runs? Are the silos really only going to hold 10k (can't remember the amount they held on SiSi) m3? Are we really going to be needing 500k m3 links in our chains?
I think some people might be jumping the gun with their assumptions
Guess we will see on the 8th huh
Making large pos towers 120m does not seem realistic. This is clearly an oversight on their part.
"Realistic"... this is a game if I remember correctly. Just because you think its unrealistic doen't mean CCP does. This could all be a part of CCP's Ebil plan
And outposts for 5 to 8 billion seems just fine to me
maybe, if players were building the parts, but we don't know cause it's just wholesale buying and reprocessing ;p Reminds me of the promise jade in an RF Online server I played, if you had 5 you could buy this one item and sell it back for more, the server never recovered :P
Course it's not quite that bad since it's not generating isk out of thin air so there is a hard limit to how much you can do it but still, similar principle.
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Elzon1
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:36:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Elzon1 Do we know the extraction rates of the planets on Tranquility? Do we know how fast the processors are going to cycle and for how many runs? Are the silos really only going to hold 10k m3? Are we really going to be needing 500k m3 links in our chains?
I think some people might be jumping the gun with their assumptions
Guess we will see on the 8th huh
the release candidate is on sisi for the full up version.
Ive gotten feedback from them. they know that they Bleeped up
they honestly are not sure just how bad yet.
to be fair, neither do I at this point.
Oh really
Shame on them for not predicting the obvious
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:47:00 -
[136]
well I think they original planed on it not being an issue because people would be able to ramp up fairly quickly and they could just delist all npc sell order items as needed. (if not on the first day) so fixing the price to a new value would be pointless.
then they basicaly forgot about the glitch in valuation when it came to npc sale prices when they moved it back.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:29:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 28/05/2010 05:31:55 best solution is to halt reprocessing of affected modules (a stopgap) and alter the reprocess amounts to be more in line with the other reprocessed POS mods, then re-enable reprocessing
but it really needed to happen yesterday, and i think by the weekend or next week it'll be too late.
edit: and if it continues for two weeks, plus another couple weeks after PI goes live, the damage will be nigh-on permanent
i didn't want those planets anyway _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
S'Way
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Posted - 2010.05.28 06:41:00 -
[138]
My guess is the really smart money is being made in other things due to lots of people liquidating assests to jump on the pos mod refining train.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 07:45:00 -
[139]
Originally by: S'Way My guess is the really smart money is being made in other things due to lots of people liquidating assests to jump on the pos mod refining train.
Not really... people that were worried StuffÖ might get reduced in value already liquidated most of their assets a good while ago (so remaining things are mostly those they are fairly certain will at least remain the same but most likely go up in value), so there was an excess of liquidity of the industrialist/trader crowd just sitting there (with no big intentions to liquidate more) waiting for the patch craze to be over and StuffÖ prices to start stabilizing before going on about their business. Talk about the perfect storm
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Seleene
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.28 07:47:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I'm sure whatever CCP comes up with will be something totally unexpected by everyone and very unique, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be universally disliked and be far worse than anything anyone can currently think of. I can't wait. \o/
You're a ray of sunshine, m8. You should work for CCP Marketing. ---- CEO - BDCI "AAA is a collection of fail leftovers from cascaded alliances such as RISE, IAC, MC and ASCN." - Anton Marx |
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.28 07:56:00 -
[141]
lolololol
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:19:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: General Bezelbub Other option is to raise PI output and BPO Mat cost by an order of magnitude.
If you just change the advanced commodities schematics and the module blueprints it might work. Give the schematics a 5 times higher output and at the same time give the blueprints a 5 times higher demand. Reduce weight of the advanced commodities by factor 5.
I must correct myself. Changing the amounts on blueprint input and schematics output wouldn't help a bit.
You just could install long running build jobs to 'preserve' the current cheap stuff. So, not working either
Unless you make pos modules unprocessable also. But you would still have the cheap stuff preserved in the build jobs. Just frozen into modules and you would be unable to reprocess and rebuild other stuff if then market would switch.
But the price cap would effectively remain. |
leboe
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:19:00 -
[143]
capital construction parts now stupid-valuable (all my local markets were emptied on the 26th. People were really on the ball with this)
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Ryhss
Caldari Victory Fleet Systems C.H.A.L.I.C.E.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:26:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Menkaure I don't see the big deal really, if you can get them through reprocessing stuff. I mean why would anyone buy them at (what will probably turn out to be) a hideously inflated price?
Repro POS mods to make... POS mods?
Unless I'm missing something, it really doesn't matter.
This.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:30:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 08:30:46
Originally by: Ryhss
Originally by: Menkaure I don't see the big deal really, if you can get them through reprocessing stuff. I mean why would anyone buy them at (what will probably turn out to be) a hideously inflated price? Repro POS mods to make... POS mods? Unless I'm missing something, it really doesn't matter.
This.
This what ? This person hasn't read the updated OP for at least 3 updates now ? This person hasn't read much of the rest of the thread ? This person is clueless ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:30:00 -
[146]
Anyone here trying to influence the market? Hmmm? Anyone? No? Are you sure?
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:33:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 28/05/2010 08:33:52
Originally by: Ryhss
Originally by: Menkaure I don't see the big deal really, if you can get them through reprocessing stuff. I mean why would anyone buy them at (what will probably turn out to be) a hideously inflated price?
Repro POS mods to make... POS mods?
Unless I'm missing something, it really doesn't matter.
This.
you can also reprocess the mods to make POSs and outposts. Just from the forge price history alone, enough tier4 materials have been sold in two days to build a hundred outposts or 5,000-10,000 large POSs, at a cost of around 35m+construction components for each tower and 2b and the cost of 800m tritanium (which will probably fall too because of the insurance nerf) for each outpost
the effects will be hilarious, but they will be there _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:37:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Cailais Anyone here trying to influence the market? Hmmm? Anyone? No? Are you sure?
The "market" is already close to saturated, and will undoubtedly become over-saturated during this weekend. You can't really influence anything downwards much anyway, since all you really have to do to get it at the rock-bottomest prices is to simply purchase the proper POS mods and reprocess them. The "hold and sell later" value is shady at best considering how many people already jumped on the bandwagon on re-manufacturing dirt-cheap POSes and POS structures out of the cheap NPC-sold ones. The really big winners of all of this are people that were planning to build OUTPOSTS, they can now build them at a fraction of the previous price.
The only people that remain to be influenced at this point are the CCP devs... influenced into acting NOW instead of sitting on the sidelines twiddling their thumbs until they get some better idea (by which time it will probably be too late to salvage anything).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Azure Moonlight
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:37:00 -
[149]
It's quite simple actually. Remove ALL nsc sold POSes and POS modules at downtime today, so POS related stuff will be market driven for the next few weeks without any resupply in comps.
Wouldn't heal the economy, but might help a LOT.
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:54:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Cailais Anyone here trying to influence the market? Hmmm? Anyone? No? Are you sure?
The "market" is already close to saturated, and will undoubtedly become over-saturated during this weekend. You can't really influence anything downwards much anyway, since all you really have to do to get it at the rock-bottomest prices is to simply purchase the proper POS mods and reprocess them. The "hold and sell later" value is shady at best considering how many people already jumped on the bandwagon on re-manufacturing dirt-cheap POSes and POS structures out of the cheap NPC-sold ones. The really big winners of all of this are people that were planning to build OUTPOSTS, they can now build them at a fraction of the previous price.
The only people that remain to be influenced at this point are the CCP devs... influenced into acting NOW instead of sitting on the sidelines twiddling their thumbs until they get some better idea (by which time it will probably be too late to salvage anything).
Still sounds like "SALE NOW ON! BUY NOW WHILE STOCKS LAST!" to me. But what do I know, im just a sales guy.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 08:58:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Cailais Still sounds like "SALE NOW ON! BUY NOW WHILE STOCKS LAST!" to me. But what do I know, im just a sales guy.
It's the firesale of the century, there are INFINITE stocks available, but there's a swarm of tactical nukes on approach to the NPC sales interdimensional portal...
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:13:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Akita T Yeah, the sky is not falling. It's just PRACTICALLY as if the PI expansion would have only launched in winter of 2010 the earliest, because that's about when it MIGHT become attractive enough to bother with in any remotely serious fashion.
well there's still nanite paste production and POS fuel harvesting.
...wait it's really not that much considering the production chain needed for nanite paste. the damn thing needs 6 different types of planets to produce. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:42:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Gnulpie Shouldn't be difficult to do. Could be done in less than 30 minutes I guess.
You have to admit, just throwing a stopgap over those POS modules for now, combined with the idea of allowing one outpost per planet instead of one per system to suck out as much P4s out of the system as fast as possible is much more awesome for several different reasons.
Just allow outposts in wormholes
Anyway ... |
Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:43:00 -
[154]
Just increase the NPC prices (10 times or whatever fits) which should solve the problem.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:55:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Arajus Just increase the NPC prices (10 times or whatever fits) which should solve the problem.
How would that solve problems with already sold items? Hundreds of billions if not trillions are already spent on those items.
They last for hundreds of outposts.
Just changing sell prices now wouldn't help anything at all. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:00:00 -
[156]
Well, CCP could remove reprocessing, add buy orders for the stuff so people can get their ISK back, then wipe the material from the face of EVE and add reprocessing again once PI is active and the POS mods removed from NPC sell orders. --------
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Erik Finnegan
Gallente Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:01:00 -
[157]
Aren't these the repercussions to be expected, once a formerly closed market (read : NPC-monopoly) is broken up and the market access liberated ?
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Deva Blackfire
Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:01:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Abrazzar Well, CCP could remove reprocessing, add buy orders for the stuff so people can get their ISK back, then wipe the material from the face of EVE and add reprocessing again once PI is active and the POS mods removed from NPC sell orders.
What keeps people then from... lets say - keeping mods and not filling in NPC buy orders? :)
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Gunnanmon
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:02:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 27/05/2010 01:00:39
They forgot to make them non-re-processable ? I mean, figures, they couldn't be bothered to let T3 subsystem get reprocessed, but they leave something like this re-processable ? ROFL.
Please do not be negative about Eve. It is not allowed. And it is bad. And it is not allowed.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy...all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy....all work... Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
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Nina Treml
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:06:00 -
[160]
uhm, maybe there's something i don't get is someone producing planetary materials while we don't even have command centers available??
well.... wtf??
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:08:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Abrazzar Well, CCP could remove reprocessing, add buy orders for the stuff so people can get their ISK back, then wipe the material from the face of EVE and add reprocessing again once PI is active and the POS mods removed from NPC sell orders.
people could just put the material into production and still get all the benefits, and you'd screw over people who bought but might not have time to sell back _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Azure Moonlight
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:12:00 -
[162]
No matter what they do in the long run, they MUST remove the nsc sell orders on the market today at downtime.
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Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:20:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Azure Moonlight No matter what they do in the long run, they MUST remove the nsc sell orders on the market today at downtime.
thats for sure!
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:23:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Azure Moonlight No matter what they do in the long run, they MUST remove the nsc sell orders on the market today at downtime.
oh, as much as i secretly hope it could happen, there probably won't be any fix _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Azure Moonlight
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:33:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate oh, as much as i secretly hope it could happen, there probably won't be any fix
I fear as much, but then again a little surprise is always welcome. Actually this should be very easy to change and would "improve" the game more than anything else that was released with Tyrannis. I also have a name for this eh content feature patch "Eve stable economy"
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:34:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Grimpak considering the production chain needed for nanite paste. the damn thing needs 6 different types of planets to produce.
10 units of paste is 4x Nanites(P2) + Gel-Matrix BioPaste(P3) + Data Chips(P3).
Nanites can be built directly on Barren planets, but since the ratio of P2:P3 is 10:3 (3.33:1), and you need them in a 4:1 ratio, you'd have to work a bit more nanite lines compared to the other materials... the good news being there are truckloads of barren planets. Biopaste works best IMO with Barren (P2-biocells) + Gas (P2-oxides) + Storm (P2-superconductors). Data Chips is nastiest indeed... you want Ice (supertensile plastics) and for the other P2 you sadly need to move P1s (dammit, that's ugly) from Lava and Temperate, no other way around it. Also, thank god, you don't NEED Plasma planets. Heh.
Granted, the hauling around will be annoying, but that's about it. You should be able to pour out more than enough relatively casually. Also... heck, there were only ~200k or so purchased daily in The Forge a long time before this expansion, they are still being sold by NPCs (and now they seem to have dropped the price RADICALLY, is this some other weird bug ? dunno, don't care) - thing is, last 5 days, instead of 1 mil total, people already purchased 9.5 mil, and stockpiles will most likely rise up even more sooner than later now that you mentioned them. Not that theusual consumption of ~200k a day, so ~20k daily batches of P3s Forge-wide used up would be a big deal in the grand scheme of things no matter how convoluted the production chain is.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:36:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: mental maverick Imagine if stockpiles last as long as the launch of dust 514. The poor grunts wont have anything to shoot at
Oh, they already said as much as "Dust514 could work just fine if EVE didn't exist, and vice-versa" since before they introduced DUST at FanFest.
What that most likely means is that there will be plenty of NPC "actors" on both sides (in EVE acting as DUST mercs, and in DUST acting as EVE employers), with only a small percentage of actual interactions being genuine EVE-player vs DUST-merc action. So, they really don't give that much of a damn about this particular link.
You're presuming they actually have a link. Remember how they removed districts from PI?
Besides, in current development and commercial schema's, CCP is expected to "wrap up" EVE to a maintenance mode without addressing things that pile up, before they can establish new products on top of EVE.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:39:00 -
[168]
Originally by: iP0D You're presuming they actually have a link.
Nah, just saying that in the worst case scenario, if a link still is supposed to exist at all anymore, it was supposed to be expendable anyway.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:48:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 28/05/2010 10:53:36
To be honest...
1: Patch to stop reprocessing of POS mods 2: Patch to Delete all P4 items
or...
Roll back the server and reimburse lost training time with free game time.
EDIT: spelling and clarification.
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Doctor Mabuse
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:51:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain To be honest...
1: Patch to stop reprocessing of POC mods 2: Delete all P4 items
Which wouldn't affect those that bought the mods but haven't reprocessed them yet. ------------------------------------
Who's trip-trapping on my bridge? |
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:54:00 -
[171]
No it won't, but you could prevent POS modules from being reprocessed for a very long time... ie forever
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Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 10:58:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain No it won't, but you could prevent POS modules from being reprocessed for a very long time... ie forever
or destroy all non-processed items on 7th of june
and
give players the chance to sell the items on the market for the same price to NPCs until then.
P.S. Can anyone judge if PI will be profitable at all (especially if nothing is done about this issue)?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:00:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Arajus Can anyone judge if PI will be profitable at all (especially if nothing is done about this issue)?
[yodavoice]This thread, fully read, you must.[/yodavoice]
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:07:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Arajus
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain No it won't, but you could prevent POS modules from being reprocessed for a very long time... ie forever
or destroy all non-processed items on 7th of june
and
give players the chance to sell the items on the market for the same price to NPCs until then.
P.S. Can anyone judge if PI will be profitable at all (especially if nothing is done about this issue)?
if nothing is done, it'll be a lot of work for little rewards.
also, responded to why your response won't work above. People will still make tons of money from the components, they'll just process them into structures _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
The Breadmaster
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:16:00 -
[175]
They need to stop this immediately by:
1. Make the BPO's unbuildable till after June 8 2. Make the bits non-reprocessable.
That seems an easy toggle that can be done quickly. And after that who knows, possibly eject the current jobs running on those BPO's, revalue PI rewards so that the NPC sale price is roughly equivalent to the reprocess... in otherwords increase the build requirement and reprocess for all OTHER bits besides the offending 3.
The problem is then just a time sink to fix up the output of the PI structures to match reprocess.
This would at least leave the possibility of a return on the reprocess "investment".
Whatever it is they need to get in gear... a mere 2 days of this has effectively erased the possibility of using PI to build towers and bits to any advantage.
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Lillian Blu
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:24:00 -
[176]
Hopefully CCP will do something about this during downtime.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:26:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Lillian Blu Hopefully CCP will do something about this during downtime.
Wanna bet ?
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Azure Moonlight
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:27:00 -
[178]
I actually ask myself why no DEV has responded to this in any way... They write detailed answers to any bull**** question in this forum, but the only real big balancing killer is completely unaddressed thus far.
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Doctor Mabuse
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:27:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Arajus
or destroy all non-processed items on 7th of june
But now you'll affect those players that have bought POS mods for genuine reasons, how do you tell the difference before deletion? ------------------------------------
Who's trip-trapping on my bridge? |
Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:34:00 -
[180]
my 1 bil isk is turning to 10 bil isk. nuff said
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:40:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Akita T UPDATE : seems like another CCP "screw the pooch" moment - the fact it's now a "10-per-batch" thing seems to have prompted module repairs to eat up 10 times as many units, AND NPC sell orders to start going down towards 1/10 of previous price. ROFL.
yes, this patch indeed has made me laugh quite hard.
as I said, if CCP decides to keep the repair cost in terms of nanite stuffs, then we're looking at a very hard nerf on overheating since I'm not seeing the nanite paste production to be able to cope with the buy orders, SPECIALLY considering that for solo production you will need Interplanetary Consolidation at 5 (6 types of planets needed) and command center upgrades at 4 at the very least, both rank4 skills with charisma primary.
so probably 2-3 months for the market to either stabilize in either relatively ok-ish supply of nanite paste, or chronic lack of nanite paste (thus quite expensive) all around.
either way, at least it seems that gas planets will provide the shortest path from raw materials to produced consumables (noble gas -> oxygen), and will also provide a p2 material (coolant) that can also double for both POS fuel and other PI products.
so at the very least, market for even more POS fuels is there, all that you need is both gas and plasma planets (plasmas are the only ones that can produce 2 of the POS fuels, those being robotics and enriched uranium). ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Dolgozo Lany
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:41:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Dolgozo Lany on 28/05/2010 11:41:35 The only good solution I see to handle this major issue:
(i) Stop POS structure refine option as of now.
(ii) Put up NPC buy orders to all POS sturctures 1 ISK less than the sell orders Anyone who has bought it can sell it again with minimal loss.
(iii) put up NPC buy orders for all P4 PI materials, which were acquired through refining Anyone who has already refined can get their money back 300K ISK seems to be in order, but this can be discussed. (I have used ****d Equipment as an example here.)
(iv) Rename all P4s to something else & change all BPOs material requirement to the new components. The only use of the refined P4 would be to sell back to NPC.
End result: All players who jumped on this train can quit without major loss in ISK, only time is wasted. PI still can become a new industry, without major hit from this Jammer-refineing-gate.
Is this easy? Nope it's not. What happens with the already started construction cycles? That's it. That's the gain of the first movers.
Any thoughts?
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:50:00 -
[183]
first of all ccp is ******EEED. set the structures to unrefinable..naow
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Dragon Greg
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:51:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Dolgozo Lany
Any thoughts?
Yes. Nice thinking, but you seem to think CCP actually cares. |
Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:51:00 -
[185]
Actually, CCP can fix this without changing anyone's stock OR the ability to reprocess OR the NPC sell orders. It's very simple: they just add bias to the manufacturing process, in the form of consummables that must be used to manufacture, which you do NOT get back if you reprocess the item back to its components.
All they have to do is add common resources that you can get at any planet (and similar resources for moon mining, and asteroid / ice mining), so that only the miners get these resources. Then modify the blueprints to require these things as consummables, but NOT as materials. If you re-process you get materials back, but NOT the consummables.
Makes mining (including PI mining) worth it somewhat, and they forever avoid these kinds of lack-of-dev-foresight investment opportunities we seem to like so much.
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Azure Moonlight
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:55:00 -
[186]
Hm okay, items still on market... At first sight it seems they didn't change anything... That really gets me down...
Why do they do this?
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:58:00 -
[187]
Could this be a remnant of back in BoB days the devs were "caught" cheating? Could this be another dev attempt at procuring isk hidden way deep in the system? CCP = BP in public relations.
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Dolgozo Lany
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:58:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Azure Moonlight Hm okay, items still on market... At first sight it seems they didn't change anything...
Nothing changed. Refining-Gate still goes on another day.
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.05.28 11:59:00 -
[189]
they need more than 2 days to think about the problem. they are ****ing the planet market now.
THANK YOU CCP for beeing ***king awesome. irony off :D
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Adora Femella
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:09:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Hemp Invader they need more than 2 days to think about the problem. they are ****ing the planet market now.
THANK YOU CCP for beeing ***king awesome. irony off :D
You are overreacting. It isn't like PI is just a production chain where the only reason to do it is for the profit. You can still enjoy all the other gameplay aspects and fun PI has to offe... Oh wait.
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Zila Freight
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:10:00 -
[191]
Whats the Problem realy ?? If your a desent market man. you know this is the best deal since Ferogel. and you was going to do the same. so stop all your whining see the Moon prices today ?? the market still lives aswell will PI guys stop the whining and go spend your isks jump on the train insted.
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Uppsy Daisy
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:11:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Uppsy Daisy on 28/05/2010 12:11:34 Don't worry everyone!
I'm sure CCP will fix it. They must be throwing people at it!
Oh.
No.
Wait.
They're fixing our portraits first...
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Azure Moonlight
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:14:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Uppsy Daisy Edited by: Uppsy Daisy on 28/05/2010 12:11:34 Don't worry everyone!
I'm sure CCP will fix it. They must be throwing people at it!
Oh.
No.
Wait.
They're fixing our portraits first...
Head ---> Wall
They can't be serious about all of that.
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Alexi Blue
Serra Technologies
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:20:00 -
[194]
Maybe this is all a secret CCP plan to populate 0.0 with outposts.
You can build them for pretty cheap now. ---
Serra Blueprint Store |
Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:23:00 -
[195]
They are quite aware of this i'd say.We've seen numerous replys on petitions and now 1 in forum what is ccp thinking knowledge is power |
Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:23:00 -
[196]
Well at least now we know CCP is somewhat aware of what is happening. Almost wet my pants... :D
Here the answer for another thread from me:
Originally by: CCP Navigator Petition threads inluding /signed or + or +1 are not permitted as per the forum rules.
Since there is a thread discussing this subject already, please use this for discussion purposes.
Locked.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:25:00 -
[197]
wtb: blue bars already
sweet zombie jesus _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:29:00 -
[198]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 28/05/2010 12:29:07 Jesus tit.ty fuc.king christ ccp, nice job
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:29:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Alexi Blue Maybe this is all a secret CCP plan to populate 0.0 with outposts.
You can build them for pretty cheap now.
Don't tell CVA that.
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:29:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Arajus I wonder why CCP does not see that is not a tiny bug, but a problem which will hugely effect the economy of the game (which would maybe not a problem perse) and make PI more or less completely useless (which is the big issue).
Just made me think... Maybe CCP wants to kill PI, because they figured PI is absolutely boring and stupid (even more than mining if you ask me) as it is right now. So they just plan on killing the feature early on, while still being able to tell everyone about the uber Tyrannis PI feature, that is so innovative and cool...
Eh yeah well...
Guess I'm in no mood to go on with that...
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JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:34:00 -
[201]
Hahaha dowtime is gone and CCP does nothing.
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Memorya
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:38:00 -
[202]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Hahaha dowtime is gone and CCP does nothing.
Ehm... it's CCP ------------------------ "English is a funny language; that explains why we park our car on the driveway and drive our car on the parkway."
English is my 5th. Language.
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Kendon Riddick
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:40:00 -
[203]
can I get a ccp re-re-reeeeewind!
im at work, i dont have time to log on and exploit this and im missing out!
i know eves not fair, but not like this, NOT LIKE THIS!!!!
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RawringDragon
Eternal Dragons
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:49:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Kendon riddick can I get a ccp re-re-reeeeewind!
im at work, i dont have time to log on and exploit this and im missing out!
i know eves not fair, but not like this, NOT LIKE THIS!!!!
I've been AT work for the past 8 hours and plodding away perfectly fine
Protip: Remote desktop, port 443, SSH tunnels
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 12:49:00 -
[205]
*Stealth bump*
More doom and gloom :
Katla Volcano: Threat Of New, Larger Icelandic Eruption Looms
The apocalypse is now ! Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:51:00 -
[206]
A good way for them to fix this is to simply make this ninja change during the DT for PI stuff deployment:
Multiply the numbers of mats required to manufacture using PI items by 3 orders of magnitude, increase production/extraction rates accordingly and reduce volume of items to match. 1 item becomes 1000, volume of 1 unit is divided by 1000.
Result: Everyone who exploited this for material gain is SOL and the problem is solved.
Only downside is database will have to handle extra zeros.
PS: De-spawn all the outposts installed after patch day, and delete all the running build orders of the items affected.
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:54:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel A good way for them to fix this is to simply make this ninja change during the DT for PI stuff deployment:
Multiply the numbers of mats required to manufacture using PI items by 3 orders of magnitude, increase production/extraction rates accordingly and reduce volume of items to match. 1 item becomes 1000, volume of 1 unit is divided by 1000.
Result: Everyone who exploited this for material gain is SOL and the problem is solved.
Only downside is database will have to handle extra zeros.
PS: De-spawn all the outposts installed after patch day, and delete all the running build orders of the items affected.
So in order to make the customers bleed for what they messed up and are to lazy to fix NOW while they still can?
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:57:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel A good way for them to fix this is to simply make this ninja change during the DT for PI stuff deployment:
Multiply the numbers of mats required to manufacture using PI items by 3 orders of magnitude, increase production/extraction rates accordingly and reduce volume of items to match. 1 item becomes 1000, volume of 1 unit is divided by 1000.
Result: Everyone who exploited this for material gain is SOL and the problem is solved.
Only downside is database will have to handle extra zeros.
PS: De-spawn all the outposts installed after patch day, and delete all the running build orders of the items affected.
and you also screw over innocent people who bought the products on the market early for production usage and trading, which is pretty punitive ("Hi, you bought products which are now worth .1% of what they used to be. Sucks to be you! hahaha.") _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 12:57:00 -
[209]
This cannot be fixed anymore. They just gave away dozens of outposts and hundreds of POSes.
This cannot end w/o tears.
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Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:01:00 -
[210]
It was a trick!
CCP just created the biggest ISK sink in EVE history!
They will just
!!! DELETE EVERYTHING !!! --------
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
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Posted - 2010.05.28 13:03:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Abrazzar It was a trick!
CCP just created the biggest ISK sink in EVE history!
They will just
!!! DELETE EVERYTHING !!!
Espacially their subscription fees
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:05:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 28/05/2010 13:06:21
Originally by: Akita T EVEN MORE UPDATES : This has been acknowledged as being a bug. It has however been deemed NOT an exploit. The devs are still pondering if they want to change it or just leave it as it is.
I'm no expert... but as far as I know an exploit can be used because of a bug So saying that it is no exploit, but a bug, is sort of contradictory.
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 13:13:00 -
[213]
Funny, there are Devs all around answering questions of "minor" importance, while one of the biggest issues in eve-history is still ignored...
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 13:16:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Arajus Funny, there are Devs all around answering questions of "minor" importance, while one of the biggest issues in eve-history is still ignored...
When they're hiding, they're either up to something or really scared, probably both. Minor issues don't matter that much, so they can't cause as much damage than fiddling around and blathering about major issues. I bet, they will only let us know something gets done, when they already about to do. --------
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Del ReyII
Caldari Shadow Research Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.28 13:18:00 -
[215]
Just reactivated to try out PI, (obviously cannot for a while) but this thread is epic. Well done CCP, I expected drama, but no way would I have expected a c**k up like this.
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rubico1337
Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:20:00 -
[216]
im 5 bill deep in this, im doing it purely for the lols of crashing the PI market.
the isk wont hurt tho, if ccp doesnt nuke my stash Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. |
Shade Millith
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:20:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Shade Millith on 28/05/2010 13:23:32 Well done CCP.
This really has to be the icing on the cake for a crappy expansion.... ------------------------
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Nor'akho Matar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 13:22:00 -
[218]
It's like I'm really on World of Warcraft forums!
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:25:00 -
[219]
I think we'll be seeing mass whine and tears pretty soon.They have never been so quiet about issue before. knowledge is power |
Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:28:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Grozen I think we'll be seeing mass whine and tears pretty soon.They have never been so quiet about issue before.
That's because its Friday and they'll all be down the pub. I imagine a 'meh stuff it, it'll wait until next week' approach is being applied :)
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Shade Millith
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.05.28 13:33:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Grozen I think we'll be seeing mass whine and tears pretty soon.They have never been so quiet about issue before.
That's because its Friday and they'll all be down the pub. I imagine a 'meh stuff it, it'll wait until next week' approach is being applied :)
C.
Best thing is, by next week it'll just be that much worse of a problem ------------------------
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Duke Hamilton1
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:35:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Duke Hamilton1 on 28/05/2010 13:35:12 Hi guys I'm a noob and just stumbled on this post.I decided to buy one each of the advanced planetary commodities all at 999,999 isk. So now I tried reprocessing the advanced commodities and I cant am I missing something here I have over 3 bill isk I want to invest in this
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 13:36:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Grozen I think we'll be seeing mass whine and tears pretty soon.They have never been so quiet about issue before.
no, this is the standard "oh****whatdowedowhatdowedo" silence, happened with the ghost training stuff too. that was a pretty massive threadnaught-era though, i expect the real qq about this won't ever materialize until the NPC orders are unseeded and tower prices drop to 50m _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:38:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Duke Hamilton1 Edited by: Duke Hamilton1 on 28/05/2010 13:35:12 Hi guys I'm a noob and just stumbled on this post.I decided to buy one each of the advanced planetary commodities all at 999,999 isk. So now I tried reprocessing the advanced commodities and I cant am I missing something here I have over 3 bill isk I want to invest in this
send me all your isk, i'll make sure it's all invested wisely and return the components to you so you can hold onto them |
JitaBum
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:39:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Duke Hamilton1 Edited by: Duke Hamilton1 on 28/05/2010 13:35:12 Hi guys I'm a noob and just stumbled on this post.I decided to buy one each of the advanced planetary commodities all at 999,999 isk. So now I tried reprocessing the advanced commodities and I cant am I missing something here I have over 3 bill isk I want to invest in this
Oh gawd I really hope you lose it all |
Duke Hamilton1
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:42:00 -
[226]
I lost it years ago I'm playing this game |
Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:44:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Duke Hamilton1 Edited by: Duke Hamilton1 on 28/05/2010 13:35:12 Hi guys I'm a noob and just stumbled on this post.I decided to buy one each of the advanced planetary commodities all at 999,999 isk. So now I tried reprocessing the advanced commodities and I cant am I missing something here I have over 3 bill isk I want to invest in this
You need to put them in stacks of 100 before you can reprocess. |
Emmanuel Baptiste
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:48:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Duke Hamilton1 Edited by: Duke Hamilton1 on 28/05/2010 13:35:12 Hi guys I'm a noob and just stumbled on this post.I decided to buy one each of the advanced planetary commodities all at 999,999 isk. So now I tried reprocessing the advanced commodities and I cant am I missing something here I have over 3 bill isk I want to invest in this
People are not reprocessing the PI items. They are reprocessing POS strucutres, then building other POS strucutres for profit because the NPC orders are still up.
As far as I know you cannot reprocess PI items. |
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:49:00 -
[229]
The free market will fix this. --------
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Sir Morgan
Temporal War
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:49:00 -
[230]
Is it just me or does someone else think that this bug is actualy a great thing ?
All these years CCP made us work ingame for 10 mil isk per hour and are planing to keep this rate of work and income with PI. And now the best part, they made a mistake and we all can get rich in a day.
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.28 13:56:00 -
[231]
I cant believe what I just did. I never have to pay for eve again (considering they still have a need for plex since everyone got rich)
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Clone 1
Ministry of Mojo
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:00:00 -
[232]
Now, this is what I call balanced.
-------------------------------------------------- I got ganked at Za'Ha'Dum, but I am ok now. |
Kephael
Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:06:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Abrazzar The free market will fix this.
Yes a large POS will be 90m for the next two years __________________________________________
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Arajus
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:06:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Zeke Mobius I cant believe what I just did. I never have to pay for eve again (considering they still have a need for plex since everyone got rich)
Look at volume for PLEX in the last 3 days, it drastically increased. Why: lots of people make lots of money, means inflation, means PLEX prices will go up in the near future, so its a good investment to buy them now!
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Arajus
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:13:00 -
[235]
Edited by: Arajus on 28/05/2010 14:13:01
Originally by: Emmanuel Baptiste
Originally by: Duke Hamilton1 Edited by: Duke Hamilton1 on 28/05/2010 13:35:12 Hi guys I'm a noob and just stumbled on this post.I decided to buy one each of the advanced planetary commodities all at 999,999 isk. So now I tried reprocessing the advanced commodities and I cant am I missing something here I have over 3 bill isk I want to invest in this
People are not reprocessing the PI items. They are reprocessing POS strucutres, then building other POS strucutres for profit because the NPC orders are still up.
As far as I know you cannot reprocess PI items.
But who is paying for all of this? Normally if some people get rich, some must get poor as money has to flow. Or are NPCs buying the POS structures in the end and the ISK comes therefore from the "CCP-bank"?
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Nor'akho Matar
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:14:00 -
[236]
Inb4 people crying when CCP considers this an exploit and have all their illicit ISK confiscated
I will laugh
So hard.
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omgfreemoniez
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:14:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Arajus Edited by: Arajus on 28/05/2010 14:13:01
Originally by: Emmanuel Baptiste
Originally by: Duke Hamilton1 Edited by: Duke Hamilton1 on 28/05/2010 13:35:12 Hi guys I'm a noob and just stumbled on this post.I decided to buy one each of the advanced planetary commodities all at 999,999 isk. So now I tried reprocessing the advanced commodities and I cant am I missing something here I have over 3 bill isk I want to invest in this
People are not reprocessing the PI items. They are reprocessing POS strucutres, then building other POS strucutres for profit because the NPC orders are still up.
As far as I know you cannot reprocess PI items.
But who is paying for all of this? Normally if some people get rich, some must get poor as money has to flow. Or are NPCs buying the POS structures in the end and the ISK comes therefore from the "CCP-bank"?
I have a feeling that those who bandwagon at this stage might just get burned horribly because of this.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.05.28 14:16:00 -
[238]
The next quarterly economic newsletter should be interesting, it better had some details! With market history being normalized the extent of this is difficult to judge atm.
--
Originally by: Zeke Mobius I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
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Alexi Blue
Serra Technologies
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:18:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Arajus Edited by: Arajus on 28/05/2010 14:13:01
Originally by: Emmanuel Baptiste
Originally by: Duke Hamilton1 Edited by: Duke Hamilton1 on 28/05/2010 13:35:12 Hi guys I'm a noob and just stumbled on this post.I decided to buy one each of the advanced planetary commodities all at 999,999 isk. So now I tried reprocessing the advanced commodities and I cant am I missing something here I have over 3 bill isk I want to invest in this
People are not reprocessing the PI items. They are reprocessing POS strucutres, then building other POS strucutres for profit because the NPC orders are still up.
As far as I know you cannot reprocess PI items.
But who is paying for all of this? Normally if some people get rich, some must get poor as money has to flow. Or are NPCs buying the POS structures in the end and the ISK comes therefore from the "CCP-bank"?
This whole 'exploit' is actually causing deflation since people are buying stuff from NPCs and selling them to other players.
On the other hand, rich are still getting richer. ---
Serra Blueprint Store |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:19:00 -
[240]
All capital construction parts have been wiped out in pretty much every region now. Jesus ccp.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.05.28 14:23:00 -
[241]
I have¦nt read all 8 pages of the thread, so if this was brought up before, sorry.
Reading more than one thread about that topic (and not participating in business) i could only imagine two things:
Either Akita wants to ruin the market by "acting that loud" for "silent" participants, as everybody and his grandma now will hop on the bandwagon, or wants to "force" CCP for making changes when this goes live on TQ, leaving everybody on the bandwagon with losses. Or both.
I feel quite comfortable with both. +10 for Akita + epic market hero medal (gold).
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Crawmerax
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Posted - 2010.05.28 14:24:00 -
[242]
so duping is legal now? sweet jesus ***** cinnamon!
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Dr Valeri
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:24:00 -
[243]
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing All capital construction parts have been wiped out in pretty much every region now. Jesus ccp.
I knew those BPO's would paid off!
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.05.28 14:32:00 -
[244]
Originally by: My Postman i could only imagine two things:
It's just epic trolling of this expansion, or as someone said, it's PvD, player vs. developer. And it's the only fun thing about this expansion.
--
Originally by: Zeke Mobius I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
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Arajus
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:32:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Alexi Blue
Originally by: Arajus Edited by: Arajus on 28/05/2010 14:13:01
Originally by: Emmanuel Baptiste
Originally by: Duke Hamilton1 Edited by: Duke Hamilton1 on 28/05/2010 13:35:12 Hi guys I'm a noob and just stumbled on this post.I decided to buy one each of the advanced planetary commodities all at 999,999 isk. So now I tried reprocessing the advanced commodities and I cant am I missing something here I have over 3 bill isk I want to invest in this
People are not reprocessing the PI items. They are reprocessing POS strucutres, then building other POS strucutres for profit because the NPC orders are still up.
As far as I know you cannot reprocess PI items.
But who is paying for all of this? Normally if some people get rich, some must get poor as money has to flow. Or are NPCs buying the POS structures in the end and the ISK comes therefore from the "CCP-bank"?
This whole 'exploit' is actually causing deflation since people are buying stuff from NPCs and selling them to other players.
On the other hand, rich are still getting richer.
Ok, that means, whoever is (lets say it nicely) not informed, pays a (now) to high price and gets "poor". I also think, that rich players will turn out to be even more richer.
I still think, that the bigger problem is, that PI is worthless now and nobody (with few exceptions) will investigate time in it.
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Zeke Mobius
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:44:00 -
[246]
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing All capital construction parts have been wiped out in pretty much every region now. Jesus ccp.
Don't call ccp jesus. Jesus helped people.
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:45:00 -
[247]
I was so looking forward to this expansion, not for doing PI myself, but because i felt this was the biggest step in a long time towards a more player driven market.
Wich is why i cant bring myself to start reprocessing myself, call me soft or what ever, but it goes way too much against the hopes i had for this expansion.
All im hoping for now is that CCP takes so long to do anything about it so that a complete rollback is going to be inevitable to save this expansion.
Yes, i am a bit sad, but at the same time it's also so freaking hilarious the way CCP managed to sabotage an entire expansion. Lots of mixed emotions
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.05.28 14:45:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Zeke Mobius
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing All capital construction parts have been wiped out in pretty much every region now. Jesus ccp.
Don't call ccp jesus. Jesus helped people.
I dunno about that. All these years later we're still dealing with the Christian church. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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CCP Chronotis
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:46:00 -
[249]
Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
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JitaBum
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:47:00 -
[250]
Edited by: JitaBum on 28/05/2010 14:53:21 oh sht
'epic lols' incoming
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FunzzeR
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:49:00 -
[251]
In before the epic tears over all the isk that was invested in this venture. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!!
THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!! |
Virtuozzo
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:50:00 -
[252]
Edited by: Virtuozzo on 28/05/2010 14:50:49
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
So, you don't think opening the champaign in the sun was a bit premature?
Also, am I reading this right? Or am I reading a prospect of punishment for all players for your screwup while people are sipping champaign?
≡v≡
|
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:50:00 -
[253]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
**** just got real. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
|
Serpents smile
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:50:00 -
[254]
Edited by: Serpents smile on 28/05/2010 14:51:16
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Shaddup, shaddup! I just spend a fortune on pos equipment!
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Voodoo Rush
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:50:00 -
[255]
Time to start building finished products before CCP can muck with things.
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:52:00 -
[256]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
Interesting. I wonder how much ISK was made over the intervening period. Assuming players will almost certainly have heaps and heaps of PI "product" now, and have only a short period in which to off load it. OR they'll be able to keep it, meaning PI will be a lame duck for ...I dunno: any estimate Akita T?
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
|
mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:52:00 -
[257]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
KABLAMMO!!!
|
Del ReyII
Caldari Shadow Research Inc
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:52:00 -
[258]
And the shoe drops.
More lovely drama.
|
Zeke Mobius
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:53:00 -
[259]
*grabs popcorn*
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:55:00 -
[260]
Originally by: FunzzeR In before the epic tears over all the isk that was invested in this venture.
The profits had been pretty much made before this went public.
--
Originally by: Zeke Mobius I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:55:00 -
[261]
Edited by: Zeba on 28/05/2010 14:56:05
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
Oh dear, the delicious tears are about to start flowing mightily soon.. Glad I only spent a few bil on this adventure in capitolism and it will be quite interesting to see how ccp works this out.
Originally by: Catari Taga
Originally by: FunzzeR In before the epic tears over all the isk that was invested in this venture.
The profits had been pretty much made before this went public.
Shhhh!
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
|
Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:56:00 -
[262]
I TOLD YOU!! NOW GIVE ME YOUR TEARS! knowledge is power |
FunzzeR
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:57:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Catari Taga
Originally by: FunzzeR In before the epic tears over all the isk that was invested in this venture.
The profits had been pretty much made before this went public.
Course, but I was referring to the stragglers that were late to this party. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!!
THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!! |
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 14:57:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Zeke Mobius *grabs popcorn*
Move over! *grabs some popcorn from Mobius*
;-)
|
Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:00:00 -
[265]
The interesting part is yet to come oh boy this is going to be the best expansion ever! knowledge is power |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:00:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Blane Xero **** just got real.
confirming this _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Kendon Riddick
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:00:00 -
[267]
*preparing to lol at inpending insurance fraud benifactors whining about loosing more on their new 'sploit*
ha ha ha ha ha ha, in all your faces i hope you all end up with minus isk!
that is all.
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:00:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Cergorach
Originally by: Zeke Mobius *grabs popcorn*
Move over! *grabs some popcorn from Mobius*
;-)
Stop with loud chewing allready, we might miss something!!
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:02:00 -
[269]
if it wasn't a thread-naught before it soon will be now --
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:03:00 -
[270]
Sets out bowl of popcorn (nice and big). Grabs lawn chair and umbrella (for the tears). Settles in to wait for the wrecking ball to swing. Feel free to grab some of the popcorn.
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JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:04:00 -
[271]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
HOW ABOUT REMOVING THE ABILITY TO REPROCESS THEM RIGHT NOW ( or yesterday ) so you have less damage to control
|
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:05:00 -
[272]
Originally by: mental maverick
Originally by: Cergorach
Originally by: Zeke Mobius *grabs popcorn*
Move over! *grabs some popcorn from Mobius*
;-)
Stop with loud chewing allready, we might miss something!!
Shhhhhhh!!!!
;-)
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Rejka
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:05:00 -
[273]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
Just don't wipe the structures that we legitly bought before the patch :D
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Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:05:00 -
[274]
As long as i get out even, I'm ok with whatever's coming. --------
|
Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:06:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Letrange Sets out bowl of popcorn (nice and big). Grabs lawn chair and umbrella (for the tears). Settles in to wait for the wrecking ball to swing. Feel free to grab some of the popcorn.
I'm really enjoying this particular show! (very bored at work). /me eats popcorn.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
|
Olusegun Obasanjo
Minmatar CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:08:00 -
[276]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
bluff much?
|
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:08:00 -
[277]
Originally by: Abrazzar As long as i get out even, I'm ok with whatever's coming.
I think that those of us who have already completely concluded the transactions needed to leave us with a fatter wallet and no stock will be safe. All the rest though are gonna be rather annoyed I think.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
|
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:08:00 -
[278]
I spent about 800mil in this venture so if ccp plants their boot up my ass, one GTC and some guristas plexes and i will be fine
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:10:00 -
[279]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
HOW ABOUT REMOVING THE ABILITY TO REPROCESS THEM RIGHT NOW ( or yesterday ) so you have less damage to control
That won't be possible without emergency shutdown/reboot. Cannot be done on the fly.
Apply | CBSN Lounge
|
Korvin
Gallente Shadow Kingdom
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:11:00 -
[280]
What a great isk sink before the PI introduction :D
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Esu Nahalas
The Night Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:12:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Letrange Sets out bowl of popcorn (nice and big). Grabs lawn chair and umbrella (for the tears). Settles in to wait for the wrecking ball to swing. Feel free to grab some of the popcorn.
Funniest part about the tears . . . you know 90% of them (I'm just guessing) will come from people who knew they were taking advantage of something that is clearly amiss. In other words, they didn't figure this out on their own . . . they simply jumped on the bandwagon when folks started yelling "free isk!"
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Adora Femella
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Posted - 2010.05.28 15:13:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Letrange Sets out bowl of popcorn (nice and big). Grabs lawn chair and umbrella (for the tears). Settles in to wait for the wrecking ball to swing. Feel free to grab some of the popcorn.
*grabs popcorn*
This whole mess and the hammer (don't chicken out on me CCP ) about to drop on people might just be the best thing we get from this expansion.
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Droog 1
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:13:00 -
[283]
It has however been deemed NOT an exploit. |
Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:13:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Voodoo Rush Time to start building finished products before CCP can muck with things.
It's not like CCP can't check who bought certain NPC parts.
Then it's just a matter of figuring out how much ISK each such purchase was worth after assembling the parts, and subtracting the difference from wallets.
Negative wallet balances is a traditional CCP way to punish ISK buyers, but I'd think this'd be a little harsh on all the bandwaggon riders exploiting a CCP FU.
This wouldn't fix PI really. For that you'd probably need to turn each POS module sitting in someone's hangar into the ISK it should be worth after PI.
Legal buyers can then just buy a new one from PI producers.
Just, what to do with stuff that's been anchored in the mean time? Leave it alone?
I'm with the popcorn crowd. Whatever CCP does will likely create more fun for us in the audience.
Looking forward to the next QEN.
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The Breadmaster
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Posted - 2010.05.28 15:14:00 -
[285]
CCP will proceed in the fairest way possible going forward. The blood thirst here will insure that they tread carefully. They will act on the welfare of eve community, the dev's are not spiteful gods here.
T2 bpos anyone?
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:14:00 -
[286]
Edited by: Zeba on 28/05/2010 15:15:30
Originally by: Korvin What a great isk sink before the PI introduction :D
Almoast makes you think it was planned all along eh? CCP is rather famous for stuff like that.
Also: Paging Akita to this thread for what will no doubt be either a short lulz reply or one of the longest he has ever typed.
Originally by: Droog 1 It has however been deemed NOT an exploit.
Which is why I think those who are simply sitting on piles of isk and nothing else are ok.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:17:00 -
[287]
just because its not been labeled as an exploit right now doesnt mean it isnt one, POS moon exploit anyone?
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 15:18:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Dr Fighter just because its not been labeled as an exploit right now doesnt mean it isnt one, POS moon exploit anyone?
Correct.
Originally by: Wiki An exploit (from the same word in the French language, meaning "achievement", or "accomplishment") is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that take advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised).
Apply | CBSN Lounge
|
Qoi
New Eden Warriors
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:18:00 -
[289]
My Solution would be:
- Introdude new Item Types for all PI Products, "Damaged Broadcast Node" etc
- Disable reprocessing on all Sov/POS Modules
- Change all existing PI Products into damaged ones
- Issue NPC buy orders for the damaged products for a month
- Delete all Damaged Products after a month
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:18:00 -
[290]
Nice to see CCP is taking steps to remedy this issue as quickly as they patched Dominion sov warfare lag, rocket explosion velocity, chat windows unstacking, and the countless other obvious major problems they fix nearly overnight.
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.28 15:19:00 -
[291]
Ferrogel exploit was done on a much smaller scale and a lot of directors and stuff got banned for it.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
JitaPriceChecker2
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:20:00 -
[292]
Originally by: pmchem Nice to see CCP is taking steps to remedy this issue as quickly as they patched Dominion sov warfare lag, rocket explosion velocity, chat windows unstacking, and the countless other obvious major problems they fix nearly overnight.
WINNER
|
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:20:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Dr Fighter just because its not been labeled as an exploit right now doesnt mean it isnt one, POS moon exploit anyone?
Nope. Apparently a gm confirmed it is not an exploit whereas the moongate thingy was considered an exploit even before ccp officially called it an exploit. If you were smart you made some good isk out of this and get to keep it. If not.. Welp, sorry for being late to the party. It pays to forum whoor.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
|
Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:20:00 -
[294]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
You are really terrible at bluffing, let's play a game of poker sometime.
|
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:22:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Abrazzar As long as i get out even, I'm ok with whatever's coming.
hehe, pretty much this _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Dr Valeri
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:22:00 -
[296]
And how exactly does CCP wants to "fix" this.
Just asking, as I am already building 2 outposts as we speak :)
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Rejka
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:26:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Dr Valeri And how exactly does CCP wants to "fix" this.
Just asking, as I am already building 2 outposts as we speak :)
Wait until 2 frigates comes out as job output
|
Cozmik R5
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:29:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Letrange Sets out bowl of popcorn (nice and big). Grabs lawn chair and umbrella (for the tears). Settles in to wait for the wrecking ball to swing. Feel free to grab some of the popcorn.
Extra butter plz ____________________
Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try. |
Illwill Bill
House of Tempers
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:32:00 -
[299]
This thread delivers.
Also, Tyrranis is the best expansion to date. The staggering amount of tears and forum whines is proof enough. Thank you, CCP! Additionally, it really infuriates me, when people use some pointless rant about signatures as a sig. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:34:00 -
[300]
Quote:
Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
This is the CCP I love!
Milking tears off the exploiters and shady opportunity mongers.
Quote:
I think that those of us who have already completely concluded the transactions needed to leave us with a fatter wallet and no stock will be safe.
Now purleeeease CCP Chronotis post that you are going to roll back any income they had whilst not rolling back the "investments" and you are GOLDEN!
This is what I have seen done in other, serious MMOs after all.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.28 15:34:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Dr Valeri And how exactly does CCP wants to "fix" this.
Just asking, as I am already building 2 outposts as we speak :)
I think it is a bluff
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:35:00 -
[302]
God, that has become soooo stupid. It's perfectly easy to save the day today actually.
But the only thing that happens is a Dev scaring the **** out of people that they will lose their legitly invested money. As if the fault was with us. For gods sake, remove POS items from market now. You will have two weeks of market driven POS stuff, without a resupply of components in this time. This could actually save PI and is easy. Do it, please do it. Jesus...
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:42:00 -
[303]
Who would have thought that you can actually reprocess items?
On a side node, I think the BPO prices and some of the materials required are far from reasonable, how did you guys come up with these numbers?
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:42:00 -
[304]
Edited by: mental maverick on 28/05/2010 15:42:45 ^^ invested have you
edit: meant Azures post but someone was faster and got inbetween...
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
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Posted - 2010.05.28 15:43:00 -
[305]
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar On a side node, I think the BPO prices and some of the materials required are far from reasonable, how did you guys come up with these numbers?
By far too cheap... *nod*
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:45:00 -
[306]
The only thing that will need looking at is nanite paste, as that needs 5 planets and looks pretty expensive now.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Lt Angus
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:50:00 -
[307]
Server should be taken down now and damage limitation dealt with please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Lialem
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:51:00 -
[308]
Edited by: Lialem on 28/05/2010 15:51:56 -Delete all the pos structures etc that were built with PI commodities during those 2 weeks.
-Also delete all the PI commodities that exist during these 2 weeks.
-Finally when those 2 weeks of transition pass, delete the manufacturing jobs in progress that are building pos structures with PI commodities.
You can surely query the database and find those, can you?
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Courtney Fish
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:54:00 -
[309]
The moment ccp decided to continue to seed ncp goods on the market and have a grace period of 2 weeks before any PI manufactering could begin, spealt disaster imo.
This expansion should of been released in its entirity and all ncp goods associated with it should of vanished off the markets. I understand the issues regarding pos fuel ect and ppl maybe struggling to keep pos's fueled initially , but again this is another issue where with better fore-sight ccp should of been able to avoid this problem.
The expansion has been known about for a long time, Just a notice on loggon screen reminding everyone that on may the 26th all ncp pos fuel commodities will be removed from game would of guarenteed that most people could of at least took some action to stock up before hand.
In my opinion the only credible way of dealing with this sorry mess is to re-roll the patch , this time seeding all planetary modules and remove all the ncp goods from market.
The only ppl to blame for these oversights are ccp
the amount of ppl who have tried to cash in on it is hopefully a blessing in disguise, not that they should b punished but if it makes ccp re-roll the patch and implement it properly then good.
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DarkArtz
Celestial Mayhem Honourable Templum of Alcedonia
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:55:00 -
[310]
No reason to punish people who saw an opportunity and simply delete their stuff. However, CCP should remove the NPC market orders for the mods that reprocess out of proportion and stop this from affecting more players. More people are going to get involved the longer these NPC items stay on sale.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.05.28 15:57:00 -
[311]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Aha ha ha ha, don't gamble on lulz or tears either, the markets will crash due to massive oversupply. -
DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ |
Crawmerax
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 15:58:00 -
[312]
so duping is not legal anymore?
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 16:00:00 -
[313]
Originally by: DarkArtz No reason to punish people who saw an opportunity and simply delete their stuff. However, CCP should remove the NPC market orders for the mods that reprocess out of proportion and stop this from affecting more players. More people are going to get involved the longer these NPC items stay on sale.
Erm. Will that not cause a massive potential spike in the market - as anyone who has "invested" in said items would then be able to sell them at vastly increased and make even more ISK? No?
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Ludacrys
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 16:00:00 -
[314]
>Introduce completely useless feature >make it even more useless with a terrible oversight >???? >CCP
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Zeke Mobius
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 16:00:00 -
[315]
t20 incident mk2?
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Alexi Blue
Serra Technologies
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 16:02:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Crawmerax so duping is not legal anymore?
This bug is in no way related to 'duping'. ---
Serra Blueprint Store |
Crawmerax
|
Posted - 2010.05.28 16:03:00 -
[317]
Edited by: Crawmerax on 28/05/2010 16:05:25 no but it allows you to make tons of isk without effort. so does duping.
either way , somethings kinda messed up here imo.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:06:00 -
[318]
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing The only thing that will need looking at is nanite paste, as that needs 5 planets and looks pretty expensive now.
6 planets. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Johnathan Walker
Caldari Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:11:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Crawmerax no but it allows you to make tons of isk without effort. so does duping.
either way , somethings kinda fkd here imo.
Duping is not what's occurring here. The whole point of duping is creating something from nothing, or duplicating an existing item without consumables. A great example was the whole moon material "oops" some time ago, where bugged structures were producing without proper consumption of resources.
What we have here, literally, is a failure to communicate. (sorry for that bad movie line). In short, there's been a big slip-up and speculation is now running rampant about the possible consequences both to the player base for their actions (or inactions) and for the game environment as a whole.
Would I be cheesed off if the stuff I've "invested" in were just simply nuked and I was left holding the bag? Sure... probably a lot, too. That's why I didn't invest everything I had, "just in case." I measured the risk, achieved a reasonable investment amount and feel comfortable in taking that step.
It's like investments and gambling: If you cannot afford to lose 100$, do not put 100$ into the slot machine.
If said slot machine happens to spit out 2$ for every 1$ I put in though, yes I'm going to try and profit from it. Are there penalties to doing so? Maybe.
CCP has a tough job ahead; whichever course of action is taken will be closely watched not by just the player base, but also the MMO community as a whole.
At the end of the day, it's a game.
(but hands off my plunderin' and profiteerin' ) Warmly, "The Bear" JW
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Landy Thigg
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:15:00 -
[320]
Just figured i'd chime in with my 2 cents.
First off this is in no was a bug/exploit. To my understanding it was an intended game mechanic to allow pos mods to be repoed. If ccp is to dense to figure out a system where by they can phases out NPC goods then by all means players should be able to capatalize off of it. In the past when shuttle were sold by npc corps and were in turn reprocessable into trit it wasnt considered a bug to repo them down and sell the trit for a profit.
As for all of the people that are fortelling the down fall of every one wo has repoed mods understand that most of them have already bought a stack of bpos are are running their production lines ragged to get as many of the mods turned into some sort of final product. So unless CCP is going to start canceling build jobs they are going to have a hard time of controlling this damage. As soon as ccp saw the damage this was doing all they needed to do was to increase the npc sell order price for 4 pos mods. That is still all that they need to do to put a temp. cap on the damage that is being done to the PI market. Every minute that they wait the damage gets worse. If you are going to do something about it CCP do it already other wise HTFU and watch you hard work go down the drain as PI is killed by a few people who did there homework on SiSi.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:21:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Landy Thigg First off this is in no was a bug/exploit.
Not sure if serious...
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
[...]
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:21:00 -
[322]
They won't destroy your stocks or disable reprocessing. Like I said in my previous post, nicely being ignored on page 7 by everyone, heh, what they will do is add more materials to the PI production streams, so that planet miners can still get materials that are needed and not obtainable from reprocessing. And at the same time, the current stock of reprocessed parts will still be needed for making outposts, and will drain as outposts are made.
Basically, your stock will still be needed, but CCP will set up NEW materials to also be used in production, so the PI people have something needed they can harvest.
That's my bet on what they'll do.
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:24:00 -
[323]
If they reverse everything they would have to reimburse the isk too, as the root cause of the problem is them.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Grebt
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:26:00 -
[324]
Soo much justification for something that obviously was amiss from the beginning. This is not game mechanics and it's not what you are trying to make it out to be, and I hope the Fix-Hammer will hit you hard.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:26:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Crawmerax no but it allows you to make tons of isk without effort.
No, it does not.
Effort is to buy stuff, build stuff and FIND A BUYER!
How long do you think will the profits lasts now that everyone and their dog is doing it? And there are no npc buy orders. Profits are CRASHING down like a stone.
And what then?
Yeahhhh .... easy and riskfree profits? In your dreams.
It was only good as long as only few people knew about it. |
Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:32:00 -
[326]
50 million isk outposts
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:35:00 -
[327]
Edited by: Lialem on 28/05/2010 16:35:49 DELETE EVERYTHING, DONT REIMBURSE ANYTHING.
Dont worry CCP they wont quit EVE. Those, that exploit that error, are hooked with EVE heavily.
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:36:00 -
[328]
CCP stop acting like BP and get off your butts and fix this!
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Rhosyr Hafod
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:41:00 -
[329]
Reading this thread is like watching a FOX News economic analyst.
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Captain Megadeath
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:43:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Zeke Mobius CCP stop acting like BP and get off your butts and fix this!
If CCP were to act like BP then it would mean that they were cleaning up a problem that was not theirs to begin with. The oil rig, oil rig staff and oil rig procedures were not BPs but Transocean. BP is getting the flak because ignorant yanks love blaming the Brits for everything.
Your example is lacking.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails my name actually is short for catherine
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Gavjack Bunk
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:43:00 -
[331]
Don't worry. We have a CSM. CCP won an award you know. CSM will fix it. And then they will have stern words with CCP about it.
I wouldn't want to field that call I assure you.
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Epicbeardman
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:51:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Azure Moonlight As if the fault was with us.
I had/have the opportunity to take advantage of this, I'm not. You saw a short path to success and you took it, like the guy that hauls 6 bil worth of tags in an itty, there's a good risk of getting your **** blown up.
Don't complain when it does.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:52:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk ~implication that CSM can do anything~
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
_____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.28 16:56:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Gavjack Bunk ~implication that CSM can do anything~
bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:08:00 -
[335]
Chronotis, I must say, your post surprised the hell out of me. How exactly did you not see this coming? The very first thought I had when I saw the design was to exploit the crap out of NPC orders - supply my mid-range good demands, maybe juggle some cheaper stuff into more expensive. You know, the usual stuff players do for every single expansion you've ever released. I saw the expansion, and assumed that this was intentional.
And you know what? If you'd done your jobs and thought it through, it would have been normal and fine. But apparently you didn't, and instead of either altering NPC prices to match the new resource requirements, or altering resource requirements to match the old NPC prices, you just stuck your heads in the sand and ignored a hole so obvious that any industrialist with Production Efficiency 4 trained could see it. And then you have the sheer chutzpah to try to make us look like the bad guys? Because when I first saw this, I didn't think "Wow, that was a mistake", I thought "Hey, this is the once-per-expansion chance to make a few billion". It wasn't a gamble any more than investing in technetium last November was a gamble. This is the market you created, you'll have to pardon me for thinking that your entire dev team could do as much analysis in the last six months as I did in three hours(two of which were spent doing data entry).
That said, if you want to correct this problem without screwing things up even worse than you already have, here's what you do. Make high-tech labs produce 10 units per cycle, not 1, drop the volume of their output to 10m3, and up the production requirement on every BPO that is priced properly to 10x what they are now. The ones that are priced improperly, up their production to whatever would be reasonable. And this time, do your damned jobs and balance it properly, don't just assume that we're all idiots who can't find your gigantic "Buy me!" signs when you put neon lights on them.
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Itzena
GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:10:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Chronotis, I must say, your post surprised the hell out of me. How exactly did you not see this coming?
Because CCP are terrible at everything.
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Tavusii
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:14:00 -
[337]
uh brosefs... i think the massive hammer that none of you see coming is the ridiculous glut of large POS' that are being built right now. You might want to do a quick count of the people on the forums talking about this and then a quick count on the daily volume of POS'. Just sayin... I hope u didn't need those few billions for a couple of months/years.
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Xianthar
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:15:00 -
[338]
Edited by: Xianthar on 28/05/2010 17:15:08
Originally by: Herschel stuff
Many of us have been around for a long time and seen CCP fail like this before and not do anything about it.
The expansion where the NPC sell price of towers doubled overnight comes to mind.
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Alexi Blue
Serra Technologies
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:16:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto And then you have the sheer chutzpah to try to make us look like the bad guys? Because when I first saw this, I didn't think "Wow, that was a mistake", I thought "Hey, this is the once-per-expansion chance to make a few billion".
Please...
You are buying NPC seeded items at a certain price, reprocessing them and earn 3 times as much for components. That's clearly reasonable and healthy for economy right? ---
Serra Blueprint Store |
Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:19:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Originally by: Zeke Mobius CCP stop acting like BP and get off your butts and fix this!
If CCP were to act like BP then it would mean that they were cleaning up a problem that was not theirs to begin with. The oil rig, oil rig staff and oil rig procedures were not BPs but Transocean. BP is getting the flak because ignorant yanks love blaming the Brits for everything.
Your example is lacking.
Guess we know who works for BP.
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Captain Megadeath
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:27:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Zeke Mobius
Guess we know who works for BP.
I'll give you a troll score of 2/10.
Unless you really are one of those thick yanks....lol
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails my name actually is short for catherine
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:35:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Alexi Blue
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto And then you have the sheer chutzpah to try to make us look like the bad guys? Because when I first saw this, I didn't think "Wow, that was a mistake", I thought "Hey, this is the once-per-expansion chance to make a few billion".
Please...
You are buying NPC seeded items at a certain price, reprocessing them and earn 3 times as much for components. That's clearly reasonable and healthy for economy right?
Well it took CCP 2.5 days to figure out they had to figure out something. Could had been a lot fastere but, meh, whatever.
Nice start of this expansion. What else can go wrong?
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:37:00 -
[343]
Responce from ccp about the reprocessed materials(tier4 mostly)
Hi,
The economy will average out once supply and demand has reached an equilibrium. The PI will only reinforce and supply more goods. Furthermore, the goods will only be good for another week before full scale PI makes it entirely unprofitable to do so.
Sincerely, GM Syndemic EVE Online Customer Support knowledge is power |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:40:00 -
[344]
Edited by: Serpents smile on 28/05/2010 17:41:48
Originally by: Grozen Responce from ccp about the reprocessed materials(tier4 mostly)
Hi,
Sincerely,
/Me hits Grozen with a spoon and the Error: GM correspondance should not be made public.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:41:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Grozen Responce from ccp about the reprocessed materials(tier4 mostly)
Hi,
The economy will average out once supply and demand has reached an equilibrium. The PI will only reinforce and supply more goods. Furthermore, the goods will only be good for another week before full scale PI makes it entirely unprofitable to do so.
Sincerely, GM Syndemic EVE Online Customer Support
It's a trap ... ?
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:43:00 -
[346]
Originally by: Grozen Responce from ccp about the reprocessed materials(tier4 mostly)
Hi,
The economy will average out once supply and demand has reached an equilibrium. The PI will only reinforce and supply more goods. Furthermore, the goods will only be good for another week before full scale PI makes it entirely unprofitable to do so.
Sincerely, GM Syndemic EVE Online Customer Support
so we can do what we want, they don't care ?
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:43:00 -
[347]
If its for personal issue yes but this matter involves everyone in eve i see no reason players should be kept in the dark about the game mechanics.Plus people who are still into processing will stop after seeing this.And since no other dev has responce about the punishment its ok for ppl to see whats coming for them. knowledge is power |
Boogie Bobby
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:46:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Grozen Responce from ccp about the reprocessed materials(tier4 mostly)
Hi,
The economy will average out once supply and demand has reached an equilibrium. The PI will only reinforce and supply more goods. Furthermore, the goods will only be good for another week before full scale PI makes it entirely unprofitable to do so.
Sincerely, GM Syndemic EVE Online Customer Support
He's got it backwards. Another full week of this will make it entirely unprofitable to do PI. I should add that it would be profitable only if you value your time at 0, which a lot of miners/manufacturers do, so maybe PI will be a big afterall.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:51:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Xianthar
Originally by: Herschel stuff
Many of us have been around for a long time and seen CCP fail like this before and not do anything about it.
The expansion where the NPC sell price of towers doubled overnight comes to mind.
Oh, I've seen CCP fail plenty of times. But it still annoys the crap out of me to see something this stupid happen.
Originally by: Alexi Blue
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto And then you have the sheer chutzpah to try to make us look like the bad guys? Because when I first saw this, I didn't think "Wow, that was a mistake", I thought "Hey, this is the once-per-expansion chance to make a few billion".
Please...
You are buying NPC seeded items at a certain price, reprocessing them and earn 3 times as much for components. That's clearly reasonable and healthy for economy right?
I didn't say it was healthy, I said it was normal. It's no worse than what happened to moon goo last patch, or speed mods three patches ago.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 17:55:00 -
[350]
Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 17:57:44 Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 17:55:10 Its not normal because its exploiting the months of work put into this expansion.
People think CCP have it easy but its not like that. They got limited people power and they are told you have to get content on this date and they have barely enough time to fix most of the bugs.
This doesn't mean that a loophole should be exploited by the richer players to get unfair advantage and become richer.
knowledge is power |
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Johnathan Walker
Caldari Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:12:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Grozen Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 17:57:44 Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 17:55:10 Its not normal because its exploiting the months of work put into this expansion.
People think CCP have it easy but its not like that. They got limited people power and they are told you have to get content on this date and they have barely enough time to fix most of the bugs.
This doesn't mean that a loophole should be exploited by the richer players to get unfair advantage and become richer.
Excuse me? What about the VOLUNTEERED time of the player base with no compensation to pop on to the test server, not only to help out with bug hunting but... TO DO THEIR HOMEWORK?
Seriously, some people get mad (like I once did) that certain groups always seemed to have advance information and were able to make a quick buck at expansion launches. Well, this time PI interested ME and I jumped in; what I found was a place where I could test and simulate to my heart's content, with zero risk.
Now that knowledge has been put into full effect... sometimes we make money, sometimes we lose money. Quit crying and /testpatch your .exe
Jeez. Warmly, "The Bear" JW
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:17:00 -
[352]
Originally by: Grozen Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 17:55:10 Its not normal because its exploiting the months of work put into this patch.
People think CCP have it easy but its not like that. They got limited people power and they are told you have to get content on this date and they have barely enough time to fix most of the bugs.
This doesn't mean that a loophole should be exploited by the richer players to get unfair advantage and become richer.
Cry me a freaking river. I don't play the market to appease your sensibilities, I do it to make money. If CCP doesn't want to give me free money, they shouldn't make such stupid mistakes.
Seriously, this isn't hard to check. One of my baseline expectations of a gaming company is that at least a significant minority of their staff will be hardcore gamers. You know, the sort of people who get into contests with their friends to see how low of a character level they can make an omnipotent D+D character at, or who do one-city challenges in Civilization, or who analyze whole Magic metagames, or who do other equivalently nonsensical things in other games. People who see a game as a set of rules, and who break those apart, see what makes it all tick, and then beat it like a rented mule until it does what they want. It's not a normal or a common mindset, but it's the mindset of the best players of any game ever made, and it's those people that form a ceiling on what you can allow to be done with your game. You have to make it fun for normal people, but you have to make it so that the nerds can't break it. And the best way to do that is to put enough nerds inside your company that they break everything while there's still time for you to fix it. Fortunately, the sort of people who want to work for gaming companies tend to be this sort of person, but it's something you need to be sure of. Otherwise, stuff like this happens.
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Johnathan Walker
Caldari Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:20:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto People who see a game as a set of rules, and who break those apart, see what makes it all tick, and then beat it like a rented mule until it does what they want.
Mooooooooooo
By the way:
http://www.ccpgames.com/en/jobs.aspx
Look at all those Game Designer positions! Go apply Grozen! Warmly, "The Bear" JW
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Virtuozzo
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:22:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Grozen
People think CCP have it easy but its not like that. They got limited people power and they are told you have to get content on this date and they have barely enough time to fix most of the bugs.
Go over the publications they make. CCP has expanded in ways rather incredible, with a potential for resource allocation that is quite honestly somewhere between shocking and intruiging.
Manpower is not the problem.
Originally by: Grozen
This doesn't mean that a loophole should be exploited by the richer players to get unfair advantage and become richer.
Welcome to EVE, it's a cold and dark place. This time, it bites back. Yes, it sucks, but let's be honest. The only difference is the volume element, which applies to anything and anyone in EVE. A guy with 100m isk can manipulate a sell order, a guy with a billion can work the orders in a station, the guy with a trillion can manipulate a region. Eve is amazing, it replicates real life dynamics quite unnervingly.
It's not a case of resources, human or otherwise. Or a case of dedication. The bottlenecks are somewhere else. But hey, it's weekend, right!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:29:00 -
[355]
Geez, I close my eyes for a couple of hours and all hell breaks loose Ah, so that was the trick to get a dev response : take a nap.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis, Posted - 2010.05.28 14:46:00, relevant part snippages
There is indeed [...] a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way. [...]do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for [[PI]] Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more ISK here
I am really curious exactly HOW are they hoping to "fix" this. They could probably salvage the profitability of PI, there are plenty of possibilities, sure, but depending on WHEN and HOW they fix it, there could very well still be a lot of ISK to be either made or at least saved before that happens, in a low-risk fashion. You know, things like BUILDING AS MANY LARGE TOWERS AND OUTPOSTS AS POSSIBLE BEFORE THEY FIX IT, for instance.
One of the many, MANY possible solutions to "fix PI" would be to, say, increase P4 reaction output from 3 per hour to 30 per hour for the same inputs (so an x10 unit count increase), decrease P4 volume from 100m^3 to 10m^3, and adjust POS/sov build needs to about x10 of current for the rest of them (you know, all those that didn't get purchased like mad these past few days). That would indeed "nerf" whatever stockpiles of goods people had, but for all PRACTICAL intents and purposes it would be akin to simply deleting 9/10 of all P4 materials people have in stock and would be no better than saying "we screwed up, but YOU will pay for it".
And anyway, this alone would NOT "fix" the issue of all dirt-cheap P4s that are already transformed into other POS/sov/outpost thingies, and most likely not even those "in the cooker" for the time being. They COULD also alter those, but it would be very, very painful. It can be done, sure... but they might as well roll back the server to pre-launch-day (when nobody reprocessed stuff to get ANY P4s yet) because it would actually be LESS overall hassle... much, much less. Yeah, sure, there never was a server rollback (AFAIK, or no noticeable one anyway), and they WOULD lose quite a bit of cash from this if they decide to reimburse people the "rolled-back-time" (to the tune of 300-400k USD, ouch, talk about expensive mistakes and PR appeasement costs), but this would be one of those times when they should at least CONSIDER the possibility of doing it. I'm not really saying they should do it, it's a horrible, last-ditch solution, but it's the first time this would actually make sense, given the scale and consequences of this thing, after pondering what else could be done instead.
RIGHT NOW, what they should have already done since yesterday (or, for that matter, what they should have done BEFORE the patch - or what they should do in the extremely unlikely case they DO decide on a rollback), is to either put a permanent freeze on POS stuff reprocessing (not cool, but a temporary freeze will not help unless you also change the reprocess amounts of those structures), or at least adjust the NPC sales price of those "exploitable" structures according to their new "value" (THIS would be the best way to do a "stopgap measure").
Either way, regardless of what CCP does, this is STILL the time to make or save some ISK, even if you could risk investing and barely getting your ISK back. Every second CCP does not apply a bandaid to the would before the "surgery" is a moment you should take full advantage of. And with the risk of sounding even more hypocritical (I didn't participate in any of this), if CCP does something that would lower the return ISK below investment, it would be the same as saying "we screwed up, you noticed, we punished you for it" = big NONO _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:30:00 -
[356]
Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 18:31:53 Manipulating the markets has nothing to do with this.What we had is people exploiting a mechanic that was clearly missed by ccp because they had to deliver tons of new features in one go.
I'm not defending them for not been able to see this I'm defending them because eve is the largest player driven mmo I've ever had the chance to play.Being so large its impossible for ccp to notice every lil aspect of the game.
Whats intriguing is that alot of people who noticed this bug in the test server or whatever kept quiet and never told ccp until Akita made 2posts about it. knowledge is power |
Johnathan Walker
Caldari Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:36:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Grozen What we had is people exploiting a mechanic that was clearly missed by ccp because they had to deliver tons of new features in one go.
And yet the official statement is that this is not an exploit... go figure. Read often? Warmly, "The Bear" JW
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:38:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Grozen Whats intriguing is that everyone who noticed this bug or whatever kept quiet and never told ccp until Akita made 2posts about it.
The funny part of it all is that a lot of people seem to credit me for "posting about it". In fact, I didn't even discover the bug/oversight/whatever you call it, nor did I first post details on now it's done The only thing I really did first was to notice there are some P4s for sale on the market (and probably make the very first P4 purchase in EVE history), nothing more, nothing less. After that, I merely organized feedback from OTHER users that posted in here and in other parts of the forum, then editorialized it with what that could mean in terms of the EVE economy.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:39:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Johnathan Walker
Originally by: Grozen What we had is people exploiting a mechanic that was clearly missed by ccp because they had to deliver tons of new features in one go.
And yet the official statement is that this is not an exploit... go figure. Read often?
There will be official update and statement soon so i suggest you wait for that.I don't think its going to be pleasant to read as well. knowledge is power |
Landy Thigg
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:40:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Grozen Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 18:31:53 Whats intriguing is that alot of people who noticed this bug in the test server or whatever kept quiet and never told ccp until Akita made 2posts about it.
Its not a bug it is what is called Arbitrage From Wiki: In economics and finance, arbitrage (IPA: /ˈɑrbɨtrɑːʒ/) is the practice of taking advantage of a price difference between two or more markets: striking a combination of matching deals that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices. When used by academics, an arbitrage is a transaction that involves no negative cash flow at any probabilistic or temporal state and a positive cash flow in at least one state; in simple terms, it is a risk-free profit.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:43:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Originally by: Zeke Mobius
Guess we know who works for BP.
I'll give you a troll score of 2/10.
Unless you really are one of those thick yanks....lol
BP has <20% of the refinery production capacity here in Texas
yet in the past 20 years BP-Texas city alone (not including BP whiting) has
57% of the TOTAL fines levied against production facilitys for unsafe work enviroment FOR THE US(not just texas) 27% of the total non fatality work injurys In the US (not just texas)
BP whiting was number three in both catagories
BP has a bit of a reputation here in texas for being not quite on the ball when it comes to its subcontractors.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Johnathan Walker
Caldari Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:44:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Grozen
Originally by: Johnathan Walker
Originally by: Grozen What we had is people exploiting a mechanic that was clearly missed by ccp because they had to deliver tons of new features in one go.
And yet the official statement is that this is not an exploit... go figure. Read often?
There will be official update and statement soon so i suggest you wait for that.I don't think its going to be pleasant to read as well.
I suggest you wait for it too, and quit playing CCP-Whipping Boy.
To be quiet honest, I would love to sick IA on your *** for lulz and to see if you're actually a disgruntled employee, maybe who warned about the exact issue we're facing and was voted down. Perhaps some employment contract breach for breakfast, followed by some poorly concealed vent tactics for lunch, and top off the day with divulging confidential information for supper?
That'd look real nice on a termination of employment notice. Oh by the way, roll a few feet back in your cubicle and note that Chron's office is just down the hallway next to the Xerox and coffee machine. Warmly, "The Bear" JW
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:51:00 -
[363]
Me ccp employed? got any more tears? knowledge is power |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:51:00 -
[364]
This thread delivers. I hope Angelina Jolie plays Akita when they make the film.
(I dont mind saying that I would totally do her)
(Angelina, not Akita)
(Still, what the hell, buy me a drink or two and we'll see how it goes)
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:51:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Grozen Manipulating the markets has nothing to do with this.What we had is people exploiting a mechanic that was clearly missed by ccp because they had to deliver tons of new features in one go.
I'm not defending them for not been able to see this I'm defending them because eve is the largest player driven mmo I've ever had the chance to play.Being so large its impossible for ccp to notice every lil aspect of the game.
Whats intriguing is that alot of people who noticed this bug in the test server or whatever kept quiet and never told ccp until Akita made 2posts about it.
I have a baseline level of respect for CCP folks. I know they can't see everything that will happen with the game - it's far too complex for anyone to be able to do that - but I assume that they can learn from the past, have a basic idea of what players will do, and see obvious things. And this was damned obvious. Fixed-price NPC orders overlapping with a player-driven economy couldn't fail to produce results like this. It was inevitable, but more importantly, it was glaringly obvious. If, say, the Apocalypse gets a bonus change and the Imperial Apocalypse doesn't, I assume CCP just forgot. If you create a massive change to the economy and leave opportunities for players to make money, I assume that it was intentional, because nobody is stupid enough to do that accidentally. Right?
It never even entered my mind that it was a bug. It seemed too obvious to go unfixed. It's like someone handing you a laptop with no keyboard - you don't look around for a keyboard, you just assume it's a tablet, because nobody could just somehow forget to include a keyboard.
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Johnathan Walker
Caldari Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:53:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Malcanis This thread delivers. I hope Angelina Jolie plays Akita when they make the film.
(I dont mind saying that I would totally do her)
(Angelina, not Akita)
(Still, what the hell, buy me a drink or two and we'll see how it goes)
Awesome.
Originally by: Grozen Me ccp employed? got any more tears?
You first; you're the one all mad and stuff about 'rich getting richer'. Show me yours I'll show you mine! Warmly, "The Bear" JW
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 18:58:00 -
[367]
I can't exactly fit with the poor players either but i had a very big thought about exploiting the situation.But i was very unease about it and specially because ccp didn't said anything about it until today.
If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
I guess i'm dumb enough not to jump with the rest of the people on the bandwagon just because i have some misguided sense of justice.
There i cried now its your turn. knowledge is power |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:00:00 -
[368]
Originally by: Grozen If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
The conundrum is, that while it displays all characteristics of an exploit caused by a bug, CCP says it's not an exploit
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:03:00 -
[369]
Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 19:04:04
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Grozen If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
The conundrum is, that while it displays all characteristics of an exploit caused by a bug, CCP says it's not an exploit
There was big chaos about the "bug" until today.Couple of devs approved it as a bug.But today 1 approved it under the category for exploits.
I can't show picture proof but if you look above you'd noticed it got removed when i posted it because the information was from petition question. knowledge is power |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:08:00 -
[370]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 28/05/2010 19:09:35
Originally by: Grozen I can't exactly fit with the poor players either but i had a very big thought about exploiting the situation.But i was very unease about it and specially because ccp didn't said anything about it until today.
If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
I guess i'm dumb enough not to jump with the rest of the people on the bandwagon just because i have some misguided sense of justice.
There i cried now its your turn.
So what you're saying is that you decided to not make money, because you thought that CCP might have made a mistake, and you didn't want to profit off someone's error. Why exactly are you playing Eve with that attitude? It is what it is, work from there.
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Grozen If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
The conundrum is, that while it displays all characteristics of an exploit caused by a bug, CCP says it's not an exploit
What characteristics does it have? It seems exactly like the old shuttle cap on tritanium, which stayed in place for years.
Originally by: Grozen
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Grozen If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
The conundrum is, that while it displays all characteristics of an exploit caused by a bug, CCP says it's not an exploit
There was big chaos about the "bug" until today.Couple of devs approved it as a bug.But today 1 approved it under the category for exploits.
I can't show picture proof but if you look above you'd noticed it got removed when i posted it because the information was from petition question.
Why did you petition this multiple times? Just keep submitting it until you get the answer you want?
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:09:00 -
[371]
Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 28/05/2010 19:09:52
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Grozen I can't exactly fit with the poor players either but i had a very big thought about exploiting the situation.But i was very unease about it and specially because ccp didn't said anything about it until today.
If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
I guess i'm dumb enough not to jump with the rest of the people on the bandwagon just because i have some misguided sense of justice.
There i cried now its your turn.
So what you're saying is that you decided to not make money, because you thought that CCP might have made a mistake, and you didn't want to profit off someone's error. Why exactly are you playing Eve with that attitude? It is what it is, work from there.
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Grozen If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
The conundrum is, that while it displays all characteristics of an exploit caused by a bug, CCP says it's not an exploit
What characteristics does it have? It seems exactly like the old shuttle cap on tritanium, which stayed in place for years.
Pretty much these:
Quote: An exploit (from the same word in the French language, meaning "achievement", or "accomplishment") is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that take advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised).
Wikipedia: Exploit
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Johnathan Walker
Caldari Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:10:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Grozen
I can't show picture proof but if you look above you'd noticed it got removed when i posted it because the information was from petition question.
If you posted it earlier, surely you can re-post through a different method
Awaiting "pics or it didn't happen". Warmly, "The Bear" JW
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:12:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
I have a baseline level of respect for CCP folks. I know they can't see everything that will happen with the game - it's far too complex for anyone to be able to do that - but I assume that they can learn from the past, have a basic idea of what players will do, and see obvious things. And this was damned obvious. Fixed-price NPC orders overlapping with a player-driven economy couldn't fail to produce results like this. It was inevitable, but more importantly, it was glaringly obvious. If, say, the Apocalypse gets a bonus change and the Imperial Apocalypse doesn't, I assume CCP just forgot. If you create a massive change to the economy and leave opportunities for players to make money, I assume that it was intentional, because nobody is stupid enough to do that accidentally. Right?
It never even entered my mind that it was a bug. It seemed too obvious to go unfixed. It's like someone handing you a laptop with no keyboard - you don't look around for a keyboard, you just assume it's a tablet, because nobody could just somehow forget to include a keyboard.
Exactly.
I have enough respect and sympathy for CCP, but can't hold myself of the feeling "they should have known better".
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:15:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto What characteristics does it have? It seems exactly like the old shuttle cap on tritanium, which stayed in place for years.
Pretty much these:
Quote: An exploit (from the same word in the French language, meaning "achievement", or "accomplishment") is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that take advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised).
Wikipedia: Exploit
This isn't a bug, NPC seeding is how the game has functioned since 2004, and the devs said that continuing it was intentional. Similarly, not a glitch. And a vulnerability normally implies doing things the game isn't intended to do - market transactions and reprocessing are hardly "vulnerabilities", they're just how the game works.
Again, this is just like the shuttle cap was. Not how a perfect market would work, but very Eve.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:17:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 28/05/2010 19:09:35
Originally by: Grozen I can't exactly fit with the poor players either but i had a very big thought about exploiting the situation.But i was very unease about it and specially because ccp didn't said anything about it until today.
If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
I guess i'm dumb enough not to jump with the rest of the people on the bandwagon just because i have some misguided sense of justice.
There i cried now its your turn.
So what you're saying is that you decided to not make money, because you thought that CCP might have made a mistake, and you didn't want to profit off someone's error. Why exactly are you playing Eve with that attitude? It is what it is, work from there.
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Grozen If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
The conundrum is, that while it displays all characteristics of an exploit caused by a bug, CCP says it's not an exploit
What characteristics does it have? It seems exactly like the old shuttle cap on tritanium, which stayed in place for years.
Originally by: Grozen
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Grozen If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
The conundrum is, that while it displays all characteristics of an exploit caused by a bug, CCP says it's not an exploit
There was big chaos about the "bug" until today.Couple of devs approved it as a bug.But today 1 approved it under the category for exploits.
I can't show picture proof but if you look above you'd noticed it got removed when i posted it because the information was from petition question.
Why did you petition this multiple times? Just keep submitting it until you get the answer you want?
It was one petition the other petitions were from different md people 1 of them being Akita T.How we play the game is everyones choice its free world and i'm having fun the way i play it.
There are much better ways to use the market to make someone miserable.Take the recent y-t8 plunge one of my competitors leocaldari just lost several bil on it
MD=the info you're looking for from me.I won't say more. knowledge is power |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:19:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto What characteristics does it have? It seems exactly like the old shuttle cap on tritanium, which stayed in place for years.
Pretty much these:
Quote: An exploit (from the same word in the French language, meaning "achievement", or "accomplishment") is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that take advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised).
Wikipedia: Exploit
This isn't a bug, NPC seeding is how the game has functioned since 2004, and the devs said that continuing it was intentional. Similarly, not a glitch. And a vulnerability normally implies doing things the game isn't intended to do - market transactions and reprocessing are hardly "vulnerabilities", they're just how the game works.
Again, this is just like the shuttle cap was. Not how a perfect market would work, but very Eve.
If it's not a bug, and not an exploit, and yet can be used to crash the market, what is it then?
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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mentaker
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:20:00 -
[377]
Im sorry for being a total noob... but how exactly do you get 'cheaper outposts' out of this becouse i really dont get what's going on...
Can someone kindly explane please |
Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar Conflagration.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:25:00 -
[378]
Its kinda funny to see several people trying to defend the actions made to profit from a bug.
Oh.. If only i worked at CCP...
You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.
CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any userÆs account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.
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Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:26:00 -
[379]
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 28/05/2010 19:25:47
Originally by: Grozen I can't show picture proof but if you look above you'd noticed it got removed when i posted it because the information was from petition question.
This?
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:26:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Akita T I am really curious exactly HOW are they hoping to "fix" this.
this. also, i agree with pretty much the rest of what akita said. the 'times ten' idea is ridiculous, it's too easily avoided and will still have the exact same market problems. _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:26:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Dan O'Connor If it's not a bug, and not an exploit, and yet can be used to crash the market, what is it then?
An industrial expansion. Haven't you noticed that they all do this?
Originally by: mentaker Im sorry for being a total noob... but how exactly do you get 'cheaper outposts' out of this becouse i really dont get what's going on...
Can someone kindly explane please
In order to build an outpost egg, you need 300 or so station parts. Similarly to POS structures, these used to be NPC seeded and will now be player-built. Given that some POS goods are still NPC seeded at far less than a fair price for their materials, you can buy those NPC, reprocess them into goods, and build all the station parts for an outpost for about 3-5 billion, when they used to cost 20-25. This...will be a problem.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:27:00 -
[382]
Originally by: mentaker Im sorry for being a total noob... but how exactly do you get 'cheaper outposts' out of this becouse i really dont get what's going on...
Can someone kindly explane please
Because ccp put the cart full of pi goodies to make stuff in front of the horse that was supposed to bring it to you. As in you were not supposed to be able to manufacture using any of the new pi stuff till after the command centers and such were seeded. So now people are refining certain market items to get all the pi stuff they need to make stuff they are not supposed to be making yet. Hilarity ensued.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:29:00 -
[383]
Edited by: Lialem on 28/05/2010 19:31:06
Quote: in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior
The company that owns the game decides which behavior is normal and which is unintended, and that's why CCP decides what is an exploit and what is not. Its not like you gonna quit EVE anyway are you??? you are hooked for good, casual players that might quit wont use exploits and they dont have the isk anyway....
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:30:00 -
[384]
too busy shamelessly profiteering to add much to this thread
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:30:00 -
[385]
lol...
Rollback --------------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:32:00 -
[386]
Originally by: mentaker Im sorry for being a total noob... but how exactly do you get 'cheaper outposts' out of this becouse i really dont get what's going on...
Can someone kindly explane please
t4 PI components are now used in the construction of station components with blueprints, which are then used in the production of outposts
_____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Cyrus Doul
Cosmic Vacum Cleaners
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:33:00 -
[387]
I know nothing about PI so I am prolly way off base with the next statement but its something to think about maybe.
My thing, and maybe I am just reading too far into this. all the ccp responses are making it look like yeah its not a bug blah blah blah. but if akita is right and outposts only cost 5 billion now instead of 25 billion and ccp is saying that when full scale pi hits it will make the gains on doing this not worth it. To me that sounds like the mods will always be that cheap but idk. so are station base price going to be 5 billion isk now?
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:33:00 -
[388]
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 28/05/2010 19:35:12
Originally by: Grozen Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 19:04:04
Originally by: Dan O'Connor
Originally by: Grozen If ccp said its ok its a normal game mechanic sure i'd join.But it was very clear from the start that its not OK for them.
The conundrum is, that while it displays all characteristics of an exploit caused by a bug, CCP says it's not an exploit
There was big chaos about the "bug" until today.Couple of devs approved it as a bug.But today 1 approved it under the category for exploits.
I can't show picture proof but if you look above you'd noticed it got removed when i posted it because the information was from petition question.
i petition it 1h ago, and i got the same answer that the one on the previous page ; NOT an exploit, and the market will correct it with the time. (and i'm curretnly trying to help the market - well of course trying to help my wallet at the same time xD) jita seems to have already regulated the price from reprocessing (don't know how to make profits using it at this place), but there is anothers ways ^^
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:35:00 -
[389]
Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 28/05/2010 19:35:39
Originally by: Lialem Edited by: Lialem on 28/05/2010 19:31:06
Quote: in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behavior
The company that owns the game decides which behavior is normal and which is unintended, and that's why CCP decides what is an exploit and what is not. Its not like you gonna quit EVE anyway are you??? you are hooked for good, casual players that might quit wont use exploits and they dont have the isk anyway....
It is true that I have no power to declare what is a bug and/or exploit and what isn't - but this certainly qualifies for one in the definition books.
I'm not gonna quit, I'm also not affected by this at all, just fun to watch
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:36:00 -
[390]
The only profit i see is for people who plan and can deploy station.Anyone whos building POS/labs is in for a lot of pain and wait because the supply is far bigger then the small demand we have. knowledge is power |
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:37:00 -
[391]
Edited by: Zeba on 28/05/2010 19:39:46
I can't wait to see all the new outposts pop up all over nullsec after a bit. Would be interesting to see exactly how many are in the build queue right now.
Originally by: Grozen The only profit i see is for people who plan and can deploy station.
/glances at all those newly founded empires in nullsec that still can't be fought over to take out the tcu. Now with added outpost for all!
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:39:00 -
[392]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: mentaker Im sorry for being a total noob... but how exactly do you get 'cheaper outposts' out of this becouse i really dont get what's going on...
Can someone kindly explane please
Because ccp put the cart full of pi goodies to make stuff in front of the horse that was supposed to bring it to you. As in you were not supposed to be able to manufacture using any of the new pi stuff till after the command centers and such were seeded. So now people are refining certain market items to get all the pi stuff they need to make stuff they are not supposed to be making yet. Hilarity ensued.
Which brings us back to CCP doing, whatever they are doing without consulting whatever internal departments involved, like, hey we scratch(put on hold) this for 2 weeks and whee, we'll just forget about notifying the rest of the scrum group we put this on hold so they should put whatever they are working on on hold too.
No, instead we make a giant mess of this patch which delivers nothing, PI wise as promised by last fanfest, whil we **** up PI market seeding and then in the end have to cover up for it somehow.
Message to CCP, stop using scrum you fail at it
terribly
I don't think it is strange, at all, Nathan is hiding.
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AkJon Ferguson
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:45:00 -
[393]
So did CCP 'fix' this already? I just bought a moon harvesting thingie and even though it's supposed to take 1 capital construction parts and a bunch of cheap junk to manufacture, it's only offering me the cheap junk if I reprocess it.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:47:00 -
[394]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson So did CCP 'fix' this already? I just bought a moon harvesting thingie and even though it's supposed to take 1 capital construction parts and a bunch of cheap junk to manufacture, it's only offering me the cheap junk if I reprocess it.
That junk isn't supposed to be cheap. That's the problem here.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 19:50:00 -
[395]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 19:54:58
Originally by: Malcanis This thread delivers. I hope Angelina Jolie plays Akita when they make the film.
Nu-uh ! It should be Ryan Reynolds, in drag And the movie should be called "The Crying Game 2 : Wall Street".
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:18:00 -
[396]
I'm not thirsty now.
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:26:00 -
[397]
also it's amazing how much Akita T can ***** for attention without getting called for it
he's got like 5 threads in 3 sections regarding this & people jerking him off for discovering it, when it was clear in the earlier threads he didn't create that he was slow to the game
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IVeige
Caldari IVever.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:27:00 -
[398]
never thought i would say that, but now i miss dominion
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:34:00 -
[399]
Edited by: Steve Celeste on 28/05/2010 20:35:20
Originally by: Serpents smile
Message to CCP, stop using scrum you fail at it
terribly
I don't think it is strange, at all, Nathan is hiding.
I see this a lot in software companies, they claim rapid development or whatever they call it, but in reality it is just an excuse for people to **** around and not follow any procedures.
Just look at that video where they show the workplace. Such a cool place to work at and goof off.
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JitaBum
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:35:00 -
[400]
Originally by: Tiberizzle also it's amazing how much Akita T can ***** for attention without getting called for it
he's got like 5 threads in 3 sections regarding this & people jerking him off for discovering it, when it was clear in the earlier threads he didn't create that he was slow to the game
He's more an asset to this community than you are BEAT IT
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:46:00 -
[401]
And I waited 8 months for this.. We need a rollback
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Vitamin B12
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:50:00 -
[402]
whats the problem? ban them for using an exploit and go on. its so a small amount of player. nobody will notice and new eden is again perfect.
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Schmalcolm
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:53:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Dawne Xi And I waited 8 months for this.. We need a rollback
I tend to agree. Basically what it boils down to now is who has more ISK to invest in POS mods to melt down. Not many people will want to get on a business where a person has a HUGE head start simply because they have more ISK.
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.05.28 20:59:00 -
[404]
Edited by: Tiberizzle on 28/05/2010 21:03:12
Originally by: JitaBum
Originally by: Tiberizzle also it's amazing how much Akita T can ***** for attention without getting called for it
he's got like 5 threads in 3 sections regarding this & people jerking him off for discovering it, when it was clear in the earlier threads he didn't create that he was slow to the game
He's more an asset to this community than you are BEAT IT
right, it's a good thing he's reposted what was originally noted in someone elses' thread on the same topic across three sections and bumped them at 15 minute intervals, linking it in every other thread on the topic, otherwise we might mistake someone other than him as the originator of this trivial set of projections... what a noble spirit.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:00:00 -
[405]
@ anyone making judgment calls about how bad CCP is to 'allow' this 'thing' to happen: You don't work there, you don't know how they work internally, chances are that most CCP employees don't know exactly where it all went wrong, they probably won't tell you. If CCP ever makes an official statement about the cause of this 'thing', take it with a grain of salt, companies (no matter how nice) tend to 'simplify' their official statements for their customers. Some will flat out lie, others will leave things out, or explain a problem so that simple folk (that are us MMO players) while simplifying all accuracy gets lost. Anyone complaining, shut up! The one without fault still has to be born...
@ anyone making Akita T out to be a hero: Don't, chances are he noticed the opportunity to late or judged it to risky (guessing at possible CCP intervention) to use it himself. Not wanting his competition to profit from it either, he made sure everyone knew about it so that CCP will be 'forced' to take action, and reaping a bit of glory along the way. This is MD warfare, screw the competition by public opinion.
Using an exploit is a banable offense, CCP employees have repeatedly stated that it isn't an exploit, so you shouldn't be banned for using it. That said, one Dev (a very important one at that) warned us that investing isk in the 'scheme' isn't wise, so you can't blame anyone went the sky falls. With patches can come significant changes, so investments made prior the patch can get screwed royally, the 8th of June is another patch day. Guess what's going to happen... *grins evilly*
If there are folks that have made a killing in the mean time, that's good for them, they made a bet with some very serious risks and won. That's what EVE is all about! Nagging the grown up that you didn't get ice cream and others did, is well... Egotistical, be happy for someone else his fortune, it isn't hurting you (directly)! CCPs main concern should be making PI fun, fun in this case is reasonably profitable, and not trying to make everyone happy by screwing those who recently made a profit...
btw. I didn't jump on the PI4 boat, I checked it out and found it to risky for my tastes, with the isk I have I can make more isk in a more dependable way in the given time frame.
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Argo Pyxis
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:02:00 -
[406]
Originally by: Steve Celeste Edited by: Steve Celeste on 28/05/2010 20:35:20
Originally by: Serpents smile
snip scrum wardec
I see this a lot in software companies, they claim rapid development or whatever they call it, but in reality it is just an excuse for people to **** around and not follow any procedures.
IRL I work under the agile/scrum scheme day in and day out. The development side of my company had been using it for years. Recently, the operations side was made to adopt it as well. Scrum teams were formed, sprints formulated, user stories submitted, and walls worked.
Being on the operations side, where we not only do long-term projects, we're also very reaction oriented, which is the basic nature of being in a operations environment. If something breaks, you just can't create a user story and schedule it for the next sprint... it's gotta be addressed and worked on right now.
And therein lies the problem with scrum when it comes to turning on a dime in a interrupt-driven environment. Scrum is very inflexible here, and when everyone (or one person in charge of a widget) needs to drop the scrum-maintained project to fix something right now, it throws the whole scrum/sprint schedule out of whack... usually for just that person or small group... but sometimes the problem is big enough that it's a all-hands-on-deck situation and all those user stories being worked on come to a screeching halt... and if those user stories affect the non-interrupt-driven developers, they throw a fit.
Anyway, I'm not speculating at what's going on in CCP-land right now regarding this specific issue (I hesitate to call it a problem) but scrum issues or no, they're probably considering both the impact of halting this practice, as well as the impact of just letting it go. If they choose to halt it, then they would have to continue on and consider if any punitive measures need to be taken against players.
Note I use the term "punitive" here... I'm of the belief that, regardless as to whether this was a mistake or intentional, that the reprocessing of NPC goods to P4 items was and still is, at the end of the day, permitted. If they shut this ability down, then any further action they might take against those who have reprocessed would indeed be punitive, and IMO unwarranted and heavy-handed. It's not like those who have engaged in this have a permanent advantage in-game. Eventually PI will fully bloom and the P4 items will be manufactured and sold as originally intended... and be so on into the indefinite future. This one week advantage will be just that, and any market effects of this advantage will be nulled out as time quickly progresses.
/AP
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:03:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Cergorach @ anyone making Akita T out to be a hero: Don't, chances are he noticed the opportunity to late or judged it to risky (guessing at possible CCP intervention) to use it himself. Not wanting his competition to profit from it either, he made sure everyone knew about it so that CCP will be 'forced' to take action, and reaping a bit of glory along the way. This is MD warfare, screw the competition by public opinion.
lol
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Johnathan Walker
Caldari Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:12:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder Its kinda funny to see several people trying to defend the actions made to profit from a bug.
Oh.. If only i worked at CCP...
You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.
CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any userÆs account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.
Warmly, "The Bear" JW
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:13:00 -
[409]
300B isk sink at the moment into POS modules looking at market graphs, *just in The Forge*.
A shame for the lack of capital parts around New Eden, and the added FUD (it's a bug, but it's not exploit, we'll do something, but we don't know yet or when, but be a fool if you continue pulling isk into it).
Probably the great winners will be the ones who are already building their stuff, if we are to believe CCP words of fear (who wouldn't).
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:14:00 -
[410]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 21:16:01
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Cergorach @ anyone making Akita T out to be a hero: Don't, chances are he noticed the opportunity to late or judged it to risky (guessing at possible CCP intervention) to use it himself. Not wanting his competition to profit from it either, he made sure everyone knew about it so that CCP will be 'forced' to take action, and reaping a bit of glory along the way. This is MD warfare, screw the competition by public opinion.
lol
Well, he was almost spot on with his remark. I pretty much said just that over in the MD thread opening few posts.
Originally by: Tiberizzle also it's amazing how much Akita T can ***** for attention without getting called for it
Yes, yes, because this is a "look at me, I'm awesome" thread as opposed to "the expansion is screwed" thread, right ?
Quote: he's got like 5 threads in 3 sections regarding this
Try 2 threads in 2 subforums, this one here started as a "why are there P4s on the market" thread, the other one in MD over "the economic implications of the oversight" when it became obvious what was going on.
Quote: & people jerking him off for discovering it, when it was clear in the earlier threads he didn't create that he was slow to the game
Right, and me flat out saying EXACTLY THIS just a short while before, and also editing it into the OP so you see it early is me seeking to claim I did it, amirite ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:23:00 -
[411]
Look, CCP is not panicking, and whatever action they take with this, they seem to want to go through the normal approval process with it (which takes a while). So, honestly, I really really doubt that their reaction will be FU exploiters, especially if you also consider that you can't fault the playerbase for doing what is in its character to do (go for the easy profit). They can't praise suicide-ganking, corp theft, and other get-rich-quick schemes, and then be angry when players take advantage of an opportunity that they put in the game. They can call it an exploit if they want to (they didn't in this case), but they can't be angry about it.
So, anyway, as a result, the fix will let PI people get valuable materials from the planets, and at the same time the current stocks will be left in the players' hangars. They won't roll back servers, and they will not delete stuff, no matter how hard y'all cry for it.
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:31:00 -
[412]
If CCP would let all the stockpiles of POSes, Outposts and POS mods be left alone in peoples hangars. The supply would last a looong time.
There would basicly only be POS fuel left to produce at a decent profit with PI and the subsequent supply and competition will make sure fuel is gonna get dirt cheap aswell.
Oh well, I guess anybody planning on setting up and running a few POSes will be happy
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:37:00 -
[413]
Originally by: mental maverick If CCP would let all the stockpiles of POSes, Outposts and POS mods be left alone in peoples hangars. The supply would last a looong time.
Not necessarily. If they do the "x10 trick" that was mentioned several times already, then the only ubercheap things will be the ones that were put into manufacture BEFORE the change, which, needless to say, aren't THAT many (thank god you didn't get capital construction parts in the reprocess too). Practically, it would be as if they deleted 9/10 of the PI-P4 stuff, without actually deleting it. If they do it soon enough (as opposed to taking their sweet, sweet time), they could seriously limit the extent/severity of the profiteering.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:42:00 -
[414]
Yeah, i've been folowing the 2 threads and seen that suggestion but isnt that the problem currently? That they are infact taking their sweet sweet time to do anything...
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OSGOD
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:48:00 -
[415]
Edited by: OSGOD on 28/05/2010 21:48:53 may i ask when planets are gonna be reseeded or is everybody on this post from oil companies and you gonna start pumping sea water into ur pi wells to bring last of the goodies to the surface, what is it 28k odd planets not many resources and every kid on the block being sucked in bye ccp to train new skills hehehe LMFAO, hehe cant wait to see what happens when planet resources are drained what a good social experiment
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Faye LaFrege
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:51:00 -
[416]
You know,I still havent been in a wormhole.
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OSGOD
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:54:00 -
[417]
Edited by: OSGOD on 28/05/2010 21:55:02 WH`s got ripped of thier for 130 bucks a year 2 cantsee PI being any diff
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:56:00 -
[418]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 21:57:16
Originally by: mental maverick Yeah, i've been folowing the 2 threads and seen that suggestion but isnt that the problem currently? That they are infact taking their sweet sweet time to do anything...
Well, even if they wait until June 8, there are only so many POS/sov/outpost thingies you can put into production before then... with CCPs being the main limiting factor right now (and prices for them skyrocketing).
So, either way, even if they do the "x10 trick" only by June 8, while there will be some "damage" already done, it will be relatively short-lived, probably lasting a month or so tops (if even that much, since, hey, why sell the stuff you got cheap at a low price if nobody can make it that cheap anymore), as opposed to (potentially) affecting PI and corresponding market for years to come.
Sidenote : you can build at most around 1k CCPs per fully skilled industrial character using ME:0/PE:0 blueprints, at a material cost of ~5 mil if you buy from mineral sell orders, but you need 10++ bil worth of BPOs (or enough soon-to-be-very-expensive BPCs) to do that... still, they sell for as much as 15 mil already, so by the time the scandal's over (assuming it will only be over on June 8 when PI goes live and _probably_ all NPC sell orders will stop), assuming they keep on selling at that price level, the BPOs would have already paid for themselves... and they'll continue to be marginally useful later on anyway (too many potential producers by then to make a decent margin, but you would have already recovered your investment). Of course, it's unlikely that pricepoint for CCPs will remain so high, and there will almost certainly be an overabundance of people trying to unload CCP BPOs after that, so, meh, also pretty risky to try that move (as in, yeah, it's likely you will come out ahead ISK-wise, but not by THAT much). Meanwhile, a lot of ISK would have been sunk out of the EVE economy
Originally by: OSGOD hehe cant wait to see what happens when planet resources are drained
Yeah, that'll happen the day after all asteroid belts are permanently drained. Meaning, never. Since, you know, both are periodically replenished.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Emporer Norton
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Posted - 2010.05.28 21:59:00 -
[419]
If you look at all the other items besides those few and compare them they scale fairly well between current npc price and amount of materials used caldari large tower uses about double adv lab materials and triple mobile lab price would be 360 mill 300 mill 270 mill towers etc could always be reprocessed. In my opinion this has been on test server a long time I'm sure whoever set reprocessing etc could use a spreadsheet if this was unintended should have been noticed by 1st person/team setting up bp's/reprocessing amounts 2nd Whoever is next in chain for approval last QA before release
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.05.28 22:02:00 -
[420]
Hmm, took a look at the Forge market and CCPs and read your latest post Akita. And it turns out your right, as usual Gotto learn to investigate better before I start plinking on my keyboard...
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.28 22:09:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Emporer Norton In my opinion this has been on test server a long time I'm sure whoever set reprocessing etc could use a spreadsheet if this was unintended should have been noticed by 1st person/team setting up bp's/reprocessing amounts 2nd Whoever is next in chain for approval last QA before release
Really makes me wonder if they even have a QA division.
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.05.28 22:22:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Zeke Mobius Really makes me wonder if they even have a QA division.
They do.
It consists of the people who setup and log onto Sisi to test this stuff.
In other words, when they spot a gift horse, they don't look it in the mouth. |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 22:27:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Zeke Mobius Really makes me wonder if they even have a QA division.
They do.
It consists of the people who setup and log onto Sisi to test this stuff.
In other words, when they spot a gift horse, they don't look it in the mouth.
Nope, apparently the players do that, pull some teeth, and exploit the horse for some rides to get rich.
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.28 22:43:00 -
[424]
Originally by: Akita T Sidenote : you can build at most around 1k CCPs per fully skilled industrial character using ME:0/PE:0 blueprints, at a material cost of under 4 mil if you buy from mineral sell orders, but you need 10++ bil worth of BPOs (or enough soon-to-be-very-expensive BPCs) to do that... still, they sell for as much as 15 mil already, so by the time the scandal's over (assuming it will only be over on June 8 when PI goes live and _probably_ all NPC sell orders will stop), assuming they keep on selling at that price level, the BPOs would have already paid for themselves... and they'll continue to be marginally useful later on anyway (too many potential producers by then to make a decent margin, but you would have already recovered your investment). Of course, it's unlikely that pricepoint for CCPs will remain so high, and there will almost certainly be an overabundance of people trying to unload CCP BPOs after that, so, meh, also pretty risky to try that move (as in, yeah, it's likely you will come out ahead ISK-wise, but not by THAT much). Meanwhile, a lot of ISK would have been sunk out of the EVE economy
At least the Outpost stuff doesn't need Capital Parts.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 22:46:00 -
[425]
Originally by: wakalaka At least the Outpost stuff doesn't need Capital Parts.
tacticalfacepalm.jpg
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.05.28 22:56:00 -
[426]
Originally by: wakalaka
At least the Outpost stuff doesn't need Capital Parts.
I see what you did there
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.28 23:00:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Qoi
Originally by: wakalaka
At least the Outpost stuff doesn't need Capital Parts.
I see what you did there
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe
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Posted - 2010.05.28 23:00:00 -
[428]
/me nominates thread for best thread in years Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 23:06:00 -
[429]
Originally by: Johnathan Walker
To be quiet honest, I would love to sick IA on your *** for lulz and to see if you're actually a disgruntled employee, maybe who warned about the exact issue we're facing and was voted down. Perhaps some employment contract breach for breakfast, followed by some poorly concealed vent tactics for lunch, and top off the day with divulging confidential information for supper?
You shouldn't post until you've taken your medication.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.28 23:29:00 -
[430]
Quote:
If it's not a bug, and not an exploit, and yet can be used to crash the market, what is it then?
A fu** up
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 23:46:00 -
[431]
Originally by: Tiberizzle when it was clear in the earlier threads he didn't create that he was slow to the game
In all fairness I riped up a few modules to make some of the BPOs and on Sisi and I missed it (granted I never gave it a thought beyond that, I assumed they would either reprice the modules or make them non recprocessable)
granted once I saw there was a problem live I decided to not try to cash in on it
However in the interest of full disclosuer, suddenly being unable to understand everything that a Dev was typing had a bit of an impact on that decision
I think she said some less than politicaly correct things in 3 other languages besides english and spanish. Frankly I cant blame her.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 23:55:00 -
[432]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: mental maverick If CCP would let all the stockpiles of POSes, Outposts and POS mods be left alone in peoples hangars. The supply would last a looong time.
Not necessarily. If they do the "x10 trick" that was mentioned several times already, then the only ubercheap things will be the ones that were put into manufacture BEFORE the change, which, needless to say, aren't THAT many (thank god you didn't get capital construction parts in the reprocess too). Practically, it would be as if they deleted 9/10 of the PI-P4 stuff, without actually deleting it. If they do it soon enough (as opposed to taking their sweet, sweet time), they could seriously limit the extent/severity of the profiteering.
Actualy a smarter Idea would be to just take the npc sold sov and pos bits off the market and let people make them starting now.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 00:00:00 -
[433]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
If it's not a bug, and not an exploit, and yet can be used to crash the market, what is it then?
A fu** up
AKA CCPs version of planing.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Your Client
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Posted - 2010.05.29 00:03:00 -
[434]
roll back possible?
This is rediculous.. Sell your ccp stock!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 01:18:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Steve Thomas However in the interest of full disclosuer, suddenly being unable to understand everything that a Dev was typing had a bit of an impact on that decision I think she said some less than politicaly correct things in 3 other languages besides english and spanish. Frankly I cant blame her.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Duries Kain
Amarr Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.05.29 01:25:00 -
[436]
Akita T making a fortune again out of peoples idiocy?
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
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Posted - 2010.05.29 01:37:00 -
[437]
Rollback would be hard, but happened in other MMOs too. Sometimes hard decisions for oneself (and your image) are the best decisions for all in the long run.
Making the players pay for something that CCP messed up is definetly not the right way to go. So take the responsiblity, CCP, and do the rollback. Blaming us for using this "feature" (cough) is like leaving alone a huge table with 10billion US dollar on time square and getting mad at those who actually tried to stuff some of it in their pockets. Because everyone who doesn't do so would be screwed in the long run.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 01:45:00 -
[438]
Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 29/05/2010 01:46:20
Originally by: Azure Moonlight Rollback would be hard, but happened in other MMOs too. Sometimes hard decisions for oneself (and your image) are the best decisions for all in the long run.
Making the players pay for something that CCP messed up is definetly not the right way to go. So take the responsiblity, CCP, and do the rollback. Blaming us for using this "feature" (cough) is like leaving alone a huge table with 10billion US dollar on time square and getting mad at those who actually tried to stuff some of it in their pockets. Because everyone who doesn't do so would be screwed in the long run.
How is a rollback more responsible than just letting it go on? I mean, are you going to roll back new account creation? Roll back sov changes? Roll back any fleet battles that have happened? Roll back our subscription fees? Industry isn't some little thing off to the side, it's quite fundamental.
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Xylopia
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.29 01:46:00 -
[439]
This is CCP's mexico oil spill.
Every minute by minute PI stuffs leak into market.
Cool story.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.05.29 01:51:00 -
[440]
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 29/05/2010 01:52:07
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
There is indeed an issue where you can reprocess the starbase modules whilst they are still regulated by the old market supply prices and use those materials to manufacture other more expensive modules. This unfortunately was a timing issue with our transition to planetary interaction from old to new supply routes and as can be seen, was not handled in the appropriate way.
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Apologies for this bug and further updates will follow in the future!
-Chronotis
If this is indeed an issue, and you have this vague threat of retribution in it, shouldn't this be posted someplace a little more official, like, I don't know ... The known issues thread? Instead it's buried 8 pages deep in Akita T's thread? This is the only place I've been able to find any CCP reply to this, and only because I bothered to scroll through this whole thread one page at a time.
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.29 01:53:00 -
[441]
Seriously CCP, rollback, sure it may cost you a bit of money to reimburse playtime, but this whole situation needs taken care of, and only a rollback will do it.
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 02:07:00 -
[442]
Don't Rollback, just do stealth change on patch day, and delete isk and items form all the people who have been doing this to set an example.
So they destroy all the new outposts and POSes manufactured after expansion, delete all the items for sale for prices under npc supply, and delete all the manufacture jobs running.
People who benefited by not cheating (ie. those making capital parts) will be the winners.
People who used their money to cheat will pay a stupid cheater tax and everything else will be fine.
You punish the people who exploited a vulnerability and made it public.
Anything else is to punish everyone who did not cheat. If you let this go and let people get away with this I will quit.
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AkJon Ferguson
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Posted - 2010.05.29 02:28:00 -
[443]
This is 100% CCP's fault. Stop trying to blame people who are taking advantage of CCP's mistake. I don't care how stupid and incompetent the average CCP employee is, I just want them to recognize their own limitations and stop breaking this wonderful game. Go eat paste or something but if you're not fixing bugs or reducing lag, you're invariably breaking stuff and it's getting old really fast.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 02:29:00 -
[444]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel Don't Rollback, just do stealth change on patch day, and delete isk and items form all the people who have been doing this to set an example.
So they destroy all the new outposts and POSes manufactured after expansion, delete all the items for sale for prices under npc supply, and delete all the manufacture jobs running.
People who benefited by not cheating (ie. those making capital parts) will be the winners.
People who used their money to cheat will pay a stupid cheater tax and everything else will be fine.
You punish the people who exploited a vulnerability and made it public.
Anything else is to punish everyone who did not cheat. If you let this go and let people get away with this I will quit.
Sure. Let's also blow up every ship in a wormhole a week after Apocrypha drops, every TCU a week after Dominion drops, and every Orca print a week after Quantum Rise drops. Wouldn't want anyone to make money by using that well-known source of cheating known only as "The Market".
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 03:09:00 -
[445]
Originally by: Duries Kain Akita T making a fortune again out of peoples idiocy?
Nope. This one actually requires non-mental effort to pull off. I hate chore style work
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 03:16:00 -
[446]
I am sure that if I had discovered something that allowed me to make tens of billions of isk because of a CCP mistake, and then someone else discovers the exploit, people would be demanding my BAN.
The difference is that now possibly hundreds of people are abusing this exploit. Because you are one of the people who are getting billions of isk for free you want to keep everything yourself.
It's true that ccp doesn't have to take all your stuff away, but they have to at the very least, take all your gains away, hopefully so you end up in the negative, to learn not to abuse these vulnerabilities.
Willfully taking advantage of known exploits are grounds for a ban.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 03:19:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Duries Kain Akita T making a fortune again out of peoples idiocy?
Nope. This one actually requires non-mental effort to pull off. I hate chore style work
Oh come on now. Easy peasy tens of billions returns on investment didn't at least get you to try it for the lulz?
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 03:20:00 -
[448]
Edited by: Akita T on 29/05/2010 03:26:32
Originally by: Neo Gabriel Because you are one of the people who are getting billions of isk for free you want to keep everything yourself.
Were you perhaps talking to me ? In that case, you are gravely mistaken. I did not purchase nor reprocess a single POS structure on TQ. But if you were talking to somebody else, quoting them or dropping a name would be nice.
Originally by: Zeba Oh come on now. Easy peasy tens of billions returns on investment didn't at least get you to try it for the lulz?
It was very tempting indeed, but it just felt too "wrong", and I was hoping CCP would plug the hole ASAP. That and the actual effort required (go there, reprocess, hire haulers, hire manufacturers) was too much for my tastes. And anyway, I had just made some easy-peasy, next to no effort required hundreds of (still partially virtual) billions a short while back with the Dominion patch
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.05.29 03:21:00 -
[449]
No fair! I just figured this out hours ago.
And then I sunk all of my ISK into it.
And it'll still take days to turn a profit.
I really thought I had till the 8th.
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.29 03:21:00 -
[450]
Hmm, it odd when I bought cyno-jammers, they only reprocessed into 1 isogen a piece. Would it have been an exploit to reprocess them then?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 03:46:00 -
[451]
Originally by: Kanatta Jing I really thought I had till the 8th.
You never know, you might still have that much time (or even that much plus 30 days inside manufacture lines), especially with outpost-related stuff, which don't require any CapConParts. Depends on when CCP decides to actually make their move, and what their move will be.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.05.29 03:52:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Akita T
Depends on when CCP decides to actually make their move, and what their move will be.
Maybe it's time for you to take another nap Akita ... CCP might make their move then
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IVeige
Caldari IVever.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 04:06:00 -
[453]
Oh come on, its not like Akita T already told them to take more time to finish tyrannis, its not like he already told them many time that this expansion would f... pos fuel market and everything.
oh wait
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Ander
Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.05.29 04:35:00 -
[454]
Edited by: Ander on 29/05/2010 04:39:04 Just wanted to let you know that PL iz makin bazillions of isk due to this bug as the filthy exploiters we are.
CCP we thank you from the bottom of our griefing hearts and hope you will continue to provide good easy isk like this.
Edit: Just ran alliance wide full API-keys wallet trawling based on the name of the new PI goo. The turnaround from this bug is making our jgold in fountain look like peanuts.
EVE PIRATE BattleDB.com |
mazzilliu
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.05.29 04:37:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Ander Just wanted to let you know that PL iz makin bazillions of isk due to this bug as the filthy exploiters we are.
CCP we thank you from the bottom of our griefing hearts and hope you will continue to provide good easy isk like this.
actually with sphere we're able to get even more goodies out of this bug. this is awesome, i'll have a titan soon.
MAZZILLIU FOR CSM 2010 CHECK OUT MY CAMPAIGN VIDEO |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 05:07:00 -
[456]
Ah, yes, a nice Friday evening and early weekend rush. The smell of burning markets in the Saturday morning ! GO, GO, ALLIANCE OUTPOST EXTRAVAGANZA WEEKEND
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.29 05:10:00 -
[457]
At this point, unless they rollback server, or kill the production queues, I bet we will see an plethora of new stations going up in 30day time that cost next to nothing.
What eve needs, more stations in 0.0.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 05:12:00 -
[458]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel Yamamoto:
I am sure that if I had discovered something that allowed me to make tens of billions of isk because of a CCP mistake, and then someone else discovers the exploit, people would be demanding my BAN.
The difference is that now possibly hundreds of people are abusing this exploit. Because you are one of the people who are getting billions of isk for free you want to keep everything yourself.
It's true that ccp doesn't have to take all your stuff away, but they have to at the very least, take all your gains away, hopefully so you end up in the negative, to learn not to abuse these vulnerabilities.
Willfully taking advantage of known exploits are grounds for a ban.
Edit for clarification, I know Akita didn't abuse this exploit.
Except that this was exactly how the game mechanic was supposed to work. They just set their prices stupidly. If they'd have jacked cyno jammers up to 50 mil a month ago, nobody would have noticed or cared. If they made them cost 7.2 mil worth of materials, again, this wouldn't have happened on any serious scale. The problem is that they made mechanics and then didn't balance them. That's not my fault, that's theirs.
Also, for the record, I'm not making a penny off this. I'm going to earn billions off capital construction parts(since I seem to have been the first guy in the universe to start buying BPCs for them en masse, and I got several hundred runs on the cheap), but my production lines are too saturated with those and some jobs I had running from before to actually get any PI goods building, and I'm too illiquid to buy the necessary BPOs anyways. I actually expect I'll lose a significant sum of money from this, at least on paper, because I own quite a lot of POS structures. I just don't feel any need to punish people for playing the game properly. If heads should roll for this, they should be rolling in Reykjavik, not Jita.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 05:12:00 -
[459]
Originally by: General Bezelbub What eve needs, more stations in 0.0.
I have a dream ! A dream of one station for EVERY 0.0 system !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Cynogal1
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Posted - 2010.05.29 05:24:00 -
[460]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Neo Gabriel Yamamoto:
I am sure that if I had discovered something that allowed me to make tens of billions of isk because of a CCP mistake, and then someone else discovers the exploit, people would be demanding my BAN.
The difference is that now possibly hundreds of people are abusing this exploit. Because you are one of the people who are getting billions of isk for free you want to keep everything yourself.
It's true that ccp doesn't have to take all your stuff away, but they have to at the very least, take all your gains away, hopefully so you end up in the negative, to learn not to abuse these vulnerabilities.
Willfully taking advantage of known exploits are grounds for a ban.
Edit for clarification, I know Akita didn't abuse this exploit.
Except that this was exactly how the game mechanic was supposed to work. They just set their prices stupidly. If they'd have jacked cyno jammers up to 50 mil a month ago, nobody would have noticed or cared. If they made them cost 7.2 mil worth of materials, again, this wouldn't have happened on any serious scale. The problem is that they made mechanics and then didn't balance them. That's not my fault, that's theirs.
Also, for the record, I'm not making a penny off this. I'm going to earn billions off capital construction parts(since I seem to have been the first guy in the universe to start buying BPCs for them en masse, and I got several hundred runs on the cheap), but my production lines are too saturated with those and some jobs I had running from before to actually get any PI goods building, and I'm too illiquid to buy the necessary BPOs anyways. I actually expect I'll lose a significant sum of money from this, at least on paper, because I own quite a lot of POS structures. I just don't feel any need to punish people for playing the game properly. If heads should roll for this, they should be rolling in Reykjavik, not Jita.
Looks like your trying to cover up your gains already, why would you buy several hundred runs of Capital construction parts bpc's when the bpo's have been out since capitals were first released. or is it the fact that recycling cyno jammers gives 4 of these each......
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 05:29:00 -
[461]
Originally by: Cynogal1 Looks like your trying to cover up your gains already, why would you buy several hundred runs of Capital construction parts bpc's when the bpo's have been out since capitals were first released. or is it the fact that recycling cyno jammers gives 4 of these each......
*koff* fact check *koff* No, it doesn't give you 4 CCPs. That's the whole "problem", the only reason they're so expensive right now. Everybody wants them, nobody has them. And he said he was the FIRST to buy them (the BPCs). AFTER the patch.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 05:48:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Cynogal1 Looks like your trying to cover up your gains already, why would you buy several hundred runs of Capital construction parts bpc's when the bpo's have been out since capitals were first released. or is it the fact that recycling cyno jammers gives 4 of these each......
Because buying enough BPCs to keep ten lines running costs 25 million(or rather, it did until I went and spiked the market). Buying enough BPOs to do the same costs 9 billion. I don't have 9 billion spare isk, nor do I have any inclination to own ten capital construction parts BPOs. They're only going to sell for absurd money for a month, tops, and probably less. I want to make my money and then go back to the less crazy stuff.
Also, like Akita said, check your facts. The tier-4 planet goods are returned when you reprocess a POS structure, but the minerals, capital construction parts, and T1 items(depending on what exactly you reprocess) are not. Thank god for that, otherwise cyno jammers would sell for 7.2 mil and refine into about 7.1 mil of T1 minerals, which would screw the PI market far more thoroughly than it's been screwed already.
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Honneamise
Amarr Biotech Corporation IUS PRIMAE N0CTIS
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Posted - 2010.05.29 08:23:00 -
[463]
so any news ?
after today's DT the stuff will be removed until 8 june ?
Please resize sig to a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 08:35:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Honneamise after today's DT the stuff will be removed until 8 june ?
Optimist much ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2010.05.29 08:50:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Honneamise
after today's DT the stuff will be removed until 8 june ?
It's Saturday, I seriously doubt that they'll implement any drastic changes to EVE if it isn't absolutely necessary (think server not working).
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Banlish
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:05:00 -
[466]
I've read a good part of this up to here, especially after our friendly CCP dev made a note in the thread.
The thing is, this probably a good thing in a round about way for smaller alliances. It royally sucks for larger ones, but the smaller ones should enjoy it.
Small alliance angle What I'm getting at is a few smaller alliances will be able to pick up a few cheap outposts and deploy em, making 0.0 reachable for more and more people. We've seen many alliances living in 1 or 2 constellations these days, Providence, Scalding Pass, Insmother, southern Dek and Around fountain core are good examples of this these days.
CCP angle CCP wanted more alliances in 0.0, yet the sov changes and system changes weren't enough. Hopefully with a pile of cheap outposts we'll see more smaller alliances make their way out and with so many outposts the bigger alliances will say 'meh, we're not taking that'. CCP can then introduce it's 'Protectorate mechanics' with plenty of alliances in 0.0.
Doesn't hurt with so much access to space that many new subscribers are more likely to be able to get to go live in a outpost relativity quickly. A good reaction or that 'frontier feel' we get when we see our first outposts sure makes many of us want to play more or bring more friends along.
Big alliance angle Everyone has renters, it's just the way it's done to live out in 0.0. With cheaper outposts we might see smaller alliances not have to 'mortgage the farm' to get a post up and out. Also the 3 outpost trinity of Refinery -> Factory -> Office might make a strong return if a few people took advantage enough to build em before CCP hammers em down.
Also with such cheap outposts even 'semi-good' space can be exploited easily and for great profit if your only putting down maybe a portion of what was required beforehand.
What about those dirty profiteers angle?!!?!?! There's always going to be someone in EVE making money in some fashion for being 'first', oh well, it happens, we live, we learn, we hope it happens to us someday. PL had fountain (and every region around it forever), The people living in Stain learned how awesome that is pretty quickly, BoB has/had Delve, and the MD crowd makes billions often just by being positioned correctly. None of the above are bad things, people fought and died over ever single one of them, it caused conflict and some people had shiny toys to go lose because of it.
I know it can be fixed if they want, I just hope they don't. I'd love to be able to run a pool on how many outposts are going to be dropped in the next 45 days from now because of this.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:21:00 -
[467]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto (snip)
Since you're obviously set to do quite well out of this and don't favour measures that would hurt people who've invested so far... how exactly do you believe it is possible for PI to retain any value without nuking the profits of people who are merrily reprocessing away? Do you honestly believe that CCP will let the headline feature of their new expansion remain stillborn in order to safeguard your profits?
(if you've invested exclusively in manufacturing cap construction parts, I guess this doesn't really apply to you)
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Percy Soars
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:23:00 -
[468]
Obviously some people are still exploiting this. Can we get some more people doing it please
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:23:00 -
[469]
Well finally i can drop a station in 3-q as my private ratting station.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:26:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Honneamise
so any news ?
after today's DT the stuff will be removed until 8 june ?
Even if it is removed there is now enough structures constructed (outposts for example) to mean that PI will be unprofitable (and therefore useless) for a very very long time.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:30:00 -
[471]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 29/05/2010 09:33:44 Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 29/05/2010 09:31:09
Originally by: Banlish
What about those dirty profiteers angle?!!?!?! There's always going to be someone in EVE making money in some fashion for being 'first', oh well, it happens, we live, we learn, we hope it happens to us someday. PL had fountain (and every region around it forever), The people living in Stain learned how awesome that is pretty quickly, BoB has/had Delve, and the MD crowd makes billions often just by being positioned correctly. None of the above are bad things, people fought and died over ever single one of them, it caused conflict and some people had shiny toys to go lose because of it.
I know it can be fixed if they want, I just hope they don't. I'd love to be able to run a pool on how many outposts are going to be dropped in the next 45 days from now because of this.
Delve is a **** region now. Thanks for the tech moons ccp.
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Honneamise
so any news ?
after today's DT the stuff will be removed until 8 june ?
Even if it is removed there is now enough structures constructed (outposts for example) to mean that PI will be unprofitable (and therefore useless) for a very very long time.
C.
Some bits are now unprofitable yes as ccp are god dam idiots. But there are still lots of bits like pos fuel, nanite paste among others who can still turn a profit.
Also signing a post is very gay.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
soren tores
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:34:00 -
[472]
Originally by: Grozen Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 17:57:44 Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 17:55:10 Its not normal because its exploiting the months of work put into this expansion.
People think CCP have it easy but its not like that. They got limited people power and they are told you have to get content on this date and they have barely enough time to fix most of the bugs.
This doesn't mean that a loophole should be exploited by the richer players to get unfair advantage and become richer.
a boo hoo, i fail to see whay we should feel sorry for a company that is clearly understaffed as you say. and if the managment are that shortsighted they deserve what they get.
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Yu Haul
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:39:00 -
[473]
it can be easy fixed:
1) Tweak numbers of the bad BPs, which used to be refined now 2) Multiply all BP R4 material needs by 10 or 20 3) Multiply output of R3->R4 schematics by 10 or 20, decrease volume of R4 so batch will remain 100 m3 4) Make a script searching for all the jobs what affect any of the new BPs. Reverse the ones currently in progress (give back the materials). Reverse completed if the product isnt sold (available in assets). Cut the old NPC cost from the wallet if it isnt available in assets, give back the R4 materials. Deal with petitions from peoples who think this wallet cut was wrong (wont be many). 5) ... 6) profit for PIons?
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:49:00 -
[474]
Its is CCP fault they did not fix problem as soon as it became thier knowladge.
Now they just sit on their butts doing nothing and allowing this to continue, which is even more ******ed.
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necronarcosis
Eggz Enterprises Imajiaca
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Posted - 2010.05.29 09:54:00 -
[475]
im shocked that all you self important emo rage, omg dont mess up the market types can whine and moan about this mess but shockingly you fully endorsed the insurance exchange rate. equally as broken equally as profitable.
eh? |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:00:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Honneamise
so any news ?
after today's DT the stuff will be removed until 8 june ?
Even if it is removed there is now enough structures constructed (outposts for example) to mean that PI will be unprofitable (and therefore useless) for a very very long time.
C.
I concur with this assessment.
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:00:00 -
[477]
I'm wondering what's ccp going to do about the already built and/or made into isk stuff.They gave a warning but said no more knowledge is power |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:19:00 -
[478]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 29/05/2010 10:20:05
Originally by: Yu Haul it can be easy fixed:
1) Tweak numbers of the bad BPs, which used to be refined now 2) Multiply all BP R4 material needs by 10 or 20 3) Multiply output of R3->R4 schematics by 10 or 20, decrease volume of R4 so batch will remain 100 m3 4) Make a script searching for all the jobs what affect any of the new BPs. Reverse the ones currently in progress (give back the materials). Reverse completed if the product isnt sold (available in assets). Cut the old NPC cost from the wallet if it isnt available in assets, give back the R4 materials. Deal with petitions from peoples who think this wallet cut was wrong (wont be many). 5) ... 6) profit for PIons?
these are not trivial things, it'd basically be a localized rollback. Several hours of server downtime
however, i do agree that any solution that doesn't account for players building POS mods out of the materials isn't a solution though. it'll still tank the t4 PI economy for months to come if they're all left in _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:21:00 -
[479]
I will laugh here when server comes up on june 8 and all your stuffs is gone.
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Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2010.05.29 10:23:00 -
[480]
Folks that haven't bought into the P4 market already are also profiting, your isk is getting more valuable. There are hundreds of billions, if not trillions of isk being drained from EVE. Add to that the nerfing of insurance fraud (now unprofitable), you have less isk in the EVE universe, and no easy way to create more.
Less isk and more materials means that your isk will be able to buy more. So please buy more POS modules, it makes my isk worth more ;-)
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:01:00 -
[481]
You can buy antibiotics in Erindur for 306 ISK and sell them in Eiluvodi for 371 ISK ... ALMOST EVERYDAY!!! --
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:04:00 -
[482]
Originally by: Whitehound You can buy antibiotics in Erindur for 306 ISK and sell them in Eiluvodi for 371 ISK ... ALMOST EVERYDAY!!!
That's how I made my first 50mil ISK ! (though I also bought gallente garbage and sold it to the minmatar) --------
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.29 11:07:00 -
[483]
IM RICH *****!
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JitaBum
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:00:00 -
[484]
NPC pos mods have been removed?
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Ludacrys
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:01:00 -
[485]
Yes they have been removed, too little too late if thats the only thing they did tho.
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:04:00 -
[486]
Should still help a lot. Now market will recover hopefully. I mean, it's two weeks without resupply, while there is constant demand for POS items.
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Ludacrys
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:08:00 -
[487]
Now all they have to do is change current PI items to "damaged" and make new ones with the same name to be made after the 8th and everything is well again
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:09:00 -
[488]
Originally by: JitaBum NPC pos mods have been removed?
Confirming this
too little too late, lol. _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Donatien de'Sade
Ars Notoria
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:09:00 -
[489]
So those who 'gathered' P4 mats before d/t have a monopoly (short term) on building POSs and POS mods - nice ----------------------------------------------------------- In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:12:00 -
[490]
I hope this is the limit of ccp's control of the situation. I really am looking forward to outpost spam in nullsec and the ensuing tears from the old established alliances that have been totally unable to knock out the new guys on the block due to the horrible lag. Hrmm, first killer lag makes setting up you little corner of nullsec viable and now you can stick up an uber cheap outpost too to cap it all off. Makes you wonder if this stuff really was a mistake.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:12:00 -
[491]
LOL now they will make even more profit then before... at least those who will realise it soon enough >_> |
wizard87
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:18:00 -
[492]
Paging Dr.EggNogg - work out the extent of the feck up please.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:20:00 -
[493]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 29/05/2010 12:23:37
Originally by: Donatien de'Sade So those who 'gathered' P4 mats before d/t have a monopoly (short term) on building POSs and POS mods - nice
is even better, because yesterday after chronotis posted the markets crashed to around 20-30k/unit for most materials
now they're the only source for POSs, and my rofl is hard enough to wake the neighbors _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:21:00 -
[494]
Originally by: wizard87 Paging Dr.EggNogg - work out the extent of the feck up please.
Dr six-posts you mean
SKUNK (o)
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Shock Blade
Corporation546846101
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:24:00 -
[495]
So let me get this straight, those people who abused the bug and brought billions and billions of isks worth (just check the amount traded in the last 3 days!) of POS modules to reprocess are now the ONLY source for POS modules / towers?
And thats a FIX??
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Im Blue
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:25:00 -
[496]
Originally by: Shock Blade So let me get this straight, those people who abused the bug and brought billions and billions of isks worth (just check the amount traded in the last 3 days!) of POS modules to reprocess are now the ONLY source for POS modules / towers?
And thats a FIX??
ccp omfg your awesom at fixing things
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Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:28:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Shock Blade So let me get this straight, those people who abused the bug and brought billions and billions of isks worth (just check the amount traded in the last 3 days!) of POS modules to reprocess are now the ONLY source for POS modules / towers?
And thats a FIX??
Everyone following the forum and having connections ingame saw this coming. Was perfectly logical to do so. Besides material prices on the market are very low right now, so everybody will be able to buy and build stuff for now.
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Del ReyII
Caldari Shadow Research Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:28:00 -
[498]
This gets funnier and funnier.
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Ludacrys
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:30:00 -
[499]
Nanite repair paste NPC orders are still there and can still be reprocessed, anyone willing to bet nanite paste will cost more or less than 2150 isk per unit?
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omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:37:00 -
[500]
I'm disgusted by this and I am cancelling at least 9 of my alt accounts in protest.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:41:00 -
[501]
Originally by: Shock Blade So let me get this straight, those people who abused the bug and brought billions and billions of isks worth (just check the amount traded in the last 3 days!) of POS modules to reprocess are now the ONLY source for POS modules / towers?
And thats a FIX??
See, I thought I was being clever staying out - there was no way CCP could do anything more stupid than they already had, and their response was likely to pretty brutal when it came.
Such naivety.
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Linas IV
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:43:00 -
[502]
Dear DEVs:
Do you think that removing all Pos and Sov Structures will fix this Problem?
Really? Is this the best idea you could come up with? Even an Rollback would have been better in My opition.
This screws so many things for numerous People, I cant even imagine all at the moment.
Well done!
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:44:00 -
[503]
Originally by: Shock Blade So let me get this straight, those people who abused the bug and brought billions and billions of isks worth (just check the amount traded in the last 3 days!) of POS modules to reprocess are now the ONLY source for POS modules / towers?
And thats a FIX??
Yes, and we are going to SIT on our supply to let the prices skyrocket.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:45:00 -
[504]
Originally by: Linas IV Dear DEVs:
Do you think that removing all Pos and Sov Structures will fix this Problem?
Really? Is this the best idea you could come up with? Even an Rollback would have been better in My opition.
This screws so many things for numerous People, I cant even imagine all at the moment.
Well done!
It will at least minimalize damage for now + image how much isk was sinked.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:45:00 -
[505]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 29/05/2010 12:45:53
Originally by: omgfreemoniez I'm disgusted by this and I am cancelling at least 9 of my alt accounts in protest.
i request the presence of your stuff in my hangar and your iskies in my wallet
edit:that's what i would be saying, if i wasn't FILTHY RICH AHAHAHAHA _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Del ReyII
Caldari Shadow Research Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:49:00 -
[506]
Edited by: Del ReyII on 29/05/2010 12:49:52 This thread is almost as funny as the Airplane movie remade by Monty Python.
Linkage
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Balsak
Minmatar Friends of Bigfoot
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:56:00 -
[507]
/ponders what devious plan CCP has to foil every ones scheme.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:58:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Shock Blade So let me get this straight, those people who abused the bug and brought billions and billions of isks worth (just check the amount traded in the last 3 days!) of POS modules to reprocess are now the ONLY source for POS modules / towers?
And thats a FIX??
CCP just accidentally the whole economy.
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 12:59:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Linas IV Dear DEVs:
Do you think that removing all Pos and Sov Structures will fix this Problem?
Really? Is this the best idea you could come up with? Even an Rollback would have been better in My opition.
This screws so many things for numerous People, I cant even imagine all at the moment.
Well done!
I've been waiting for this exact reply. When it all boils down nothing bad is happening to the game in its overall sense. Yes pi is going to be less profitable but tbh the people who were going to be making the mega profits already are mega zillionairs even before adding to the pile by jumping on this 'mistake'. The average eve player could give a flying **** about it as it doesn't effect them in the slightest as they don't use pos or have territory to spam with cheap outposts.
Matter of fact its going to have a positive effect for startup alliances with so many cheap pos and outposts to buy up and install in their little corner of nullsec. Tbh this whole thread is pretty much the industrial elites and their alts bemoaning the fact that they now don't get to add even moar isk than they could ever use to their wallets that are already full of moar isk than they could ever use. Hrmm, maybe the good doctor eyeball was correct in saying that there are parallels to be drawn between eves economy and rl. The retoric here sounds suspiciously like what you would hear in a goldman sachs boardroom meeting.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Cibo Seidensha
Amarr Biotronics Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:06:00 -
[510]
CCP, I demand a bail out, or I will crush ur economiz!!
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:12:00 -
[511]
Originally by: Linas IV Dear DEVs:
Do you think that removing all Pos and Sov Structures will fix this Problem?
Really? Is this the best idea you could come up with? Even an Rollback would have been better in My opition.
This screws so many things for numerous People, I cant even imagine all at the moment.
Well done!
Holy crap.
As if I didn't have enough ISK already
I am SO going to milk that
Seriously, this is like giving a select number of people the ultimate cherry on top
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Jack Coutu
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:13:00 -
[512]
This is fun but I would of prefered another Trinity style wrecking shot to the boot.ini
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:16:00 -
[513]
Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: Linas IV Dear DEVs:
Do you think that removing all Pos and Sov Structures will fix this Problem?
Really? Is this the best idea you could come up with? Even an Rollback would have been better in My opition.
This screws so many things for numerous People, I cant even imagine all at the moment.
Well done!
Holy crap.
As if I didn't have enough ISK already
I am SO going to milk that
Seriously, this is like giving a select number of people the ultimate cherry on top
Heh, well if by select you mean every single industrialist and alliance in the game with half a brain then yes I guess the term 'select' can be used. Normal market forces will drive down any price gouging with a quickness.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:20:00 -
[514]
Originally by: Zeba I hope this is the limit of ccp's control of the situation. I really am looking forward to outpost spam in nullsec and the ensuing tears from the old established alliances that have been totally unable to knock out the new guys on the block due to the horrible lag. Hrmm, first killer lag makes setting up you little corner of nullsec viable and now you can stick up an uber cheap outpost too to cap it all off. Makes you wonder if this stuff really was a mistake.
Lag favours the one first in system, that arent necesarily the defenders.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:24:00 -
[515]
Edited by: Grimpak on 29/05/2010 13:24:13
Originally by: Zeba I've been waiting for this exact reply. When it all boils down nothing bad is happening to the game in its overall sense. Yes pi is going to be less profitable but tbh the people who were going to be making the mega profits already are mega zillionairs even before adding to the pile by jumping on this 'mistake'. The average eve player could give a flying **** about it as it doesn't effect them in the slightest as they don't use pos or have territory to spam with cheap outposts.
Matter of fact its going to have a positive effect for startup alliances with so many cheap pos and outposts to buy up and install in their little corner of nullsec. Tbh this whole thread is pretty much the industrial elites and their alts bemoaning the fact that they now don't get to add even moar isk than they could ever use to their wallets that are already full of moar isk than they could ever use. Hrmm, maybe the good doctor eyeball was correct in saying that there are parallels to be drawn between eves economy and rl. The retoric here sounds suspiciously like what you would hear in a goldman sachs boardroom meeting.
this.
tbh the PI stuffs that really matter to me are the nanite paste production chain, and probably POS fuel stuffs (gas planets are so many meaning oxygen will be to POS what trit is to modules) so that I can keep a relatively small and quite maintenance free passive income. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:32:00 -
[516]
I just checked the market and there is still PI stuff for sale!!
Get in now before the prices REALLY go up!
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:32:00 -
[517]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Zeba I hope this is the limit of ccp's control of the situation. I really am looking forward to outpost spam in nullsec and the ensuing tears from the old established alliances that have been totally unable to knock out the new guys on the block due to the horrible lag. Hrmm, first killer lag makes setting up you little corner of nullsec viable and now you can stick up an uber cheap outpost too to cap it all off. Makes you wonder if this stuff really was a mistake.
Lag favours the one first in system, that arent necesarily the defenders.
Yes I understand the finer points of fleet warfare under lag conditions and how it changes the way you take and defend. Still doesn't change the fact that its harder to do what you need to do if the defenders have half a brain. And from the looks of the sov map it seems like the lag really has let smaller entities into nullsec with the larger alliances napping up instead of hotdropping their entire cap fleet on the poor hauler trying to set up the first markers.
So yes lag has definitely let ccp's vision of what they want nullsec to be like come closer to reality. And now everyone gets free outposts if they were quick off the mark. I remember all the death threats from the old guard about how they would wipe from the map anyone daring to take any territory anywhere after dominion hit just to spite the sov changes that killed the afk empire mechanic. Then they tried it and found all that newfound lag free fighting just went back to the bad ole days and made wipeing out anyone daring to take any territory a massive unfun chore that noone wanted to do so lets just roll with the sov changes and rat anomolies in our archons. lulz.. ccp > u
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.05.29 13:38:00 -
[518]
BEST.EXPANSION.EVER. --
Originally by: Zeke Mobius I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
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Virtuozzo
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:03:00 -
[519]
Damn.
Cheers CCP, you have created a gold rush It just keeps on giving
No seriously, best "solution" ever!
≡v≡
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Dolgozo Lany
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:04:00 -
[520]
Holy Mother of Outpost Spam!
The only question is what are the next steps? This was a CCP f*** up.
Hundreds of players have bought in legit way the POS components and used legit in-game means to create the P4 items.
It was not CCP's intention that we can do it?
It's a sandbox. At least that's on the advert. CCP created the boundaries, but cannot remove sand from the sandbox. It was stated previously that it's not a bug or an exploit. Every transaction was according to the rules CCP had set.
Previous posts contain quite nicely what should be good steps to resolve this fiasco, but changing ingame items to something else ingame... I don't think it's an available for them. Me and my mates have sent petitions to get CCP response before investing in this... we get the info it's not exploit and not a bug. So working as intended. Intended... "lol".
Anyway...
So far we have received only one official post, stating whoever used legit ingame means will be f*cked hard for that... and that was not a real nice statement from a gaming company...
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:09:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Dolgozo Lany Holy Mother of Outpost Spam!
The only question is what are the next steps? This was a CCP f*** up.
Hundreds of players have bought in legit way the POS components and used legit in-game means to create the P4 items.
It was not CCP's intention that we can do it?
It's a sandbox. At least that's on the advert. CCP created the boundaries, but cannot remove sand from the sandbox. It was stated previously that it's not a bug or an exploit. Every transaction was according to the rules CCP had set.
Previous posts contain quite nicely what should be good steps to resolve this fiasco, but changing ingame items to something else ingame... I don't think it's an available for them. Me and my mates have sent petitions to get CCP response before investing in this... we get the info it's not exploit and not a bug. So working as intended. Intended... "lol".
Anyway...
So far we have received only one official post, stating whoever used legit ingame means will be f*cked hard for that... and that was not a real nice statement from a gaming company...
The restricted stuff goes back on sale in four days. I'm sure people can wait that long to buy from npc orders instead of lulz overpriced player stock. Do you guys even think before you post or is it all twitch reaction?
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:17:00 -
[522]
Well done CCP, this is a total disaster. Now are you going to let those who exploited this keep their billions or you going to delete it all? If not this is another ****up of the same proportion as the reaction exploit.
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:18:00 -
[523]
CCP I love you guys! Ive never had a company make me laugh this hard! Ill buy a PLEX a month no problem. "A" plex.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:18:00 -
[524]
Originally by: Super Whopper Well done CCP, this is a total disaster.
For who?
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:21:00 -
[525]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 29/05/2010 14:21:14
Quote: During downtime on Saturday, May 29, all NPC sell orders for starbase structures, sovereignty structures and station components were temporarily disabled. These orders will be restored temporarily on Wednesday, June 2 until Planetary Interaction is fully operational.
ORDERS WILL BE RESTORED.
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:26:00 -
[526]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 29/05/2010 14:21:14
Quote: During downtime on Saturday, May 29, all NPC sell orders for starbase structures, sovereignty structures and station components were temporarily disabled. These orders will be restored temporarily on Wednesday, June 2 until Planetary Interaction is fully operational.
ORDERS WILL BE RESTORED.
So one way or another... PI seems to be pretty useless still.
I'm slightly amused by this... glitch
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Zeke Mobius
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:33:00 -
[527]
Oh comon? Slightly? I think it's hilarious!
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:35:00 -
[528]
Originally by: Dan O'Connor So one way or another... PI seems to be pretty useless still.
Useless? You gonna watch out for my OXYGEN EMPIRE!
I'll make oxygen so common, people won't be buying drugs to get high but instead buy my oxygen. One can easily produce 1500 of it per day, 5 planets, 3 characters, that's 22500 oxygen per day or 675000 per month! --------
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:39:00 -
[529]
Edited by: Super Whopper on 29/05/2010 14:41:32
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Super Whopper Well done CCP, this is a total disaster.
For who?
First it's not an exploit, then those who exploited could get ****d pretty hard, despite this not being an exploit. But now it turns out it could be an exploit after all.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Time to start picking flowers. It's an exploit, it's not an exploit...
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:47:00 -
[530]
Originally by: Super Whopper Edited by: Super Whopper on 29/05/2010 14:41:32
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Super Whopper Well done CCP, this is a total disaster.
For who?
First it's not an exploit, then those who exploited could get ****d pretty hard, despite this not being an exploit. But now it turns out it could be an exploit after all.
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Hi Folks,
For those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you. Those of you currently gambling on profiting from this error should heed that as a warning before splashing more isk here.
Time to start picking flowers. It's an exploit, it's not an exploit...
I see you would be a terrible poker player.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:52:00 -
[531]
Man, man man... if only I could had looked/ peaked into the future. I made 50 mil profit on this being cautious as I am. If I had known this... oh whatever.
Would be nice if CCP sees this as a wake up call, like ehh, we are never ever going to do this in the future, but, meh, its CCP. Their motto is if we f-up, we don't just f-up, we massively f-up.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 14:56:00 -
[532]
Originally by: Serpents smile Would be nice if CCP sees this as a wake up call, like ehh, we are never ever going to do this in the future, but, meh, its CCP. Their motto is if we f-up, we don't just f-up, we massively f-up.
Yes, I'm sure all those alliances who are now stocked up with lulz cheap outposts and deathstar pos with all the trimmings are fairly upset at ccp for this massive f-up..
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Musical Fist
Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:12:00 -
[533]
Selling PoS items 1000x Dominion prices, Large Gallente Tower going cheap for 300 billion.
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.29 15:48:00 -
[534]
Quote: During downtime on Saturday, May 29, all NPC sell orders for starbase structures, sovereignty structures and station components were temporarily disabled. These orders will be restored temporarily on Wednesday, June 2 until Planetary Interaction is fully operational.
so, they will reseed them in 4 fays, but only until june the 8th ? it's that ? i'm not sure having corretly understood
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:06:00 -
[535]
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 29/05/2010 13:24:13
Originally by: Zeba I've been waiting for this exact reply. When it all boils down nothing bad is happening to the game in its overall sense. Yes pi is going to be less profitable but tbh the people who were going to be making the mega profits already are mega zillionairs even before adding to the pile by jumping on this 'mistake'. The average eve player could give a flying **** about it as it doesn't effect them in the slightest as they don't use pos or have territory to spam with cheap outposts.
Matter of fact its going to have a positive effect for startup alliances with so many cheap pos and outposts to buy up and install in their little corner of nullsec. Tbh this whole thread is pretty much the industrial elites and their alts bemoaning the fact that they now don't get to add even moar isk than they could ever use to their wallets that are already full of moar isk than they could ever use. Hrmm, maybe the good doctor eyeball was correct in saying that there are parallels to be drawn between eves economy and rl. The retoric here sounds suspiciously like what you would hear in a goldman sachs boardroom meeting.
this.
tbh the PI stuffs that really matter to me are the nanite paste production chain, and probably POS fuel stuffs (gas planets are so many meaning oxygen will be to POS what trit is to modules) so that I can keep a relatively small and quite maintenance free passive income.
This thread should really be over after that post.
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Boogie Bobby
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:15:00 -
[536]
Originally by: Maewei Balducci
Quote: During downtime on Saturday, May 29, all NPC sell orders for starbase structures, sovereignty structures and station components were temporarily disabled. These orders will be restored temporarily on Wednesday, June 2 until Planetary Interaction is fully operational.
so, they will reseed them in 4 fays, but only until june the 8th ? it's that ? i'm not sure having corretly understood
If y'all think that on the 2nd everything will come back onto the market same as it was yesterday I think you'll be surprised. They shut it down to give them time to come up with a solution.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:25:00 -
[537]
can we have another expansion please? im running out of isk ... xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:29:00 -
[538]
Originally by: wizard87 Paging Dr.EggNogg - work out the extent of the feck up please.
Pff Councelor troy can bairly tell you the painfully obvious that we by and large already know and have at least three forum threads explaining it better than he does
Originally by: Shock Blade So let me get this straight, those people who abused the bug and brought billions and billions of isks worth (just check the amount traded in the last 3 days!) of POS modules to reprocess are now the ONLY source for POS modules / towers?
And thats a FIX??
yep
CCP is weird that way
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:31:00 -
[539]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: Shock Blade So let me get this straight, those people who abused the bug and brought billions and billions of isks worth (just check the amount traded in the last 3 days!) of POS modules to reprocess are now the ONLY source for POS modules / towers?
And thats a FIX??
yep
CCP is weird that way
Yea, it's certainly impossible to wait for FOUR DAYS. It's almost like absolutely nothing will happen if you wait a few days to buy a POS.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:33:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Originally by: Akita T Depends on when CCP decides to actually make their move, and what their move will be.
Maybe it's time for you to take another nap Akita ... CCP might make their move then
Bloody brilliant, it sort of worked !
Well, of course, the "fix" right now still looks like one of the worst few kinds of possible fixes... ...it can still get better, of course, depending on what exactly they plan to do between now and when they put them back in temporarily.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:35:00 -
[541]
That is the most funny thread since years. And now even this 'fix'.
Haaaaaaaaaaahahhahahahahahaha
I just wonder what will come next. But thanks for increasing my profits even more now
Seriously CCP devs, how did you get the stats and PI material requirements for those pos modules and outpost? Throwing dices or what? |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:42:00 -
[542]
Picard and Riker respond to the fix currently in place.
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:46:00 -
[543]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus All of the 'solutions' at this point are bad. It just depends on which one is the least worst. I'm sure whatever CCP comes up with will be something totally unexpected by everyone and very unique, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be universally disliked and be far worse than anything anyone can currently think of. I can't wait. \o/
ALL HAPPENS AS FORETOLD BY PROPHECY !
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.05.29 16:56:00 -
[544]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Bellum Eternus All of the 'solutions' at this point are bad. It just depends on which one is the least worst. I'm sure whatever CCP comes up with will be something totally unexpected by everyone and very unique, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be universally disliked and be far worse than anything anyone can currently think of. I can't wait. \o/
ALL HAPPENS AS FORETOLD BY PROPHECY !
Comon CCP is trying to help to liquidate PI stuff from people's hangars.
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LoveKebab
Caldari Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:18:00 -
[545]
Dear CCP i would love to jam my systems so can i have a cynojammers seeded again? just dont forget to NOT removing reprocess as i have 10.000 systems to secure xVid4PSP MKV Encoding Tutorial |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:33:00 -
[546]
Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 29/05/2010 17:34:42 lol all this has happened before. All this will happen again
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:38:00 -
[547]
Brilliant change. Tell people they'll regret it if they invest more, and then make the change that is the single best one possible for people who invested more. You're just piling triumph on triumph these days, aren't you?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:39:00 -
[548]
Edited by: Akita T on 29/05/2010 17:43:16
THERE'S AN APP A BLOG FOR THAT !
...psyche, it's not about this, made you read !
The comments however have one intriguing bit of info by CCP Red Button : "[...]the Tranquility main database which is at the heart of EVE is clustered and fully redundant in every way. If needed we can recover the database up to the minute from backup but the problem is the time it currently takes. So what we aim to do now is being able to instantly switch to a time-delayed mirror in addition to drastically reducing backup restoration times."
Dun-dun-duuuuun ? Nah, they wouldn't do that, would they ?
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:43:00 -
[549]
It was fun to watch the process from the first "wth" post to the current state, and more to come.
This may be a lesson to CCP on how to deal with zero-day exploits. I'm still mad for listening to CCP Chronotis and bailing out from this, instead of beginning to build eggs. Or maybe not. The 2nd june we'll ultimately know, but this uncertainty about declaring this an (exploit/bug/error/wai) or not should be avoided in the future ;) I praise direct communication from devs to the playerbase, but in this case, it did more damage than anything.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:47:00 -
[550]
Originally by: wakalaka I'm still mad for listening to CCP Chronotis and bailing out from this
Quite a few people called his "bluff"
Quote: The 2nd june we'll ultimately know
We'll just have to wait until then to see who's the better poker player, Chronotis or the guys calling it a bluff
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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TLWE
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:52:00 -
[551]
I am so happy I didn't invest a single isk into this bug. This gonna hurt when all these one person 100bln isk fortunes formed during last few hours will go simply <puff>. :)
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 17:58:00 -
[552]
Originally by: TLWE I am so happy I didn't invest a single isk into this bug. This gonna hurt when all these one person 100bln isk fortunes formed during last few hours will go simply <puff>. :)
Ah, ANOTHER hopeless optimist ! Silly rabbit, ISK trix are for daring kids ! The question is, how much will it hurt you to know you could have made that kind of money yourself but didn't ?
...although I can't really blame you, I didn't do it either. Pesky morals/ethics, I have to try to COMPLETELY get rid of them already, they're really holding me back.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:03:00 -
[553]
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 29/05/2010 18:05:43 Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 29/05/2010 18:04:49 just make pos parts. you don't need to use the bug itself to make isk. even with the current P4 prices there are still way to make money doing it.
like IRL : it's bad to make children work, but noone care when you buy the stuff the children make.
... or perhaps you think my way of thinking is way worse XD ?
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Dragossin
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:06:00 -
[554]
Well i was just thinking about what could happen next and i came up with this:
What would happen if ccp "transformed" all PI-materials currently ingame into worthless junk (cookies!) and made all old pos's components recycle for 10 %. Probably even change them back to 100 % after some (unannounced) timeframe.
Seriously, i would love seeing that, because then those people would have spend a nice amount of cash on worthless junk. On the other hand, as this would classify as a exploit (usage of a game mechanic in a way this mechanic was not meant to be used) in most others mmorpgs, they would still be better of.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:06:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Maewei Balducci just make pos parts. you don't need to use the bug itself to make isk. even with the current P4 prices there are still way to make money doing it.
Umm... you have to ALREADY HAVE USED the bug issue to some extent, namely the purchase of appropriate POS modules at old NPC prices. It doesn't work now anymore if you didn't do that when you still could.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:09:00 -
[556]
Originally by: Akita T ...although I can't really blame you, I didn't do it either. Pesky morals/ethics, I have to try to COMPLETELY get rid of them already, they're really holding me back.
Probably the same reason I didn't do it either .. Karma's a B****.
ôKarma moves in two directions. If we act virtuously, the seed we plant will result in happiness. If we act non-virtuously, suffering results.ö
-Sakyong Mipham
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:12:00 -
[557]
Edited by: Akita T on 29/05/2010 18:13:24
Originally by: Dawne Xi
Originally by: Akita T Pesky morals/ethics, I have to try to COMPLETELY get rid of them already, they're really holding me back.
Probably the same reason I didn't do it either .. Karma's a B****.
To be completely fair, for me personally, it was probably closer to 45% ethics issues, 45% laziness and 10% the hope CCP would for once actually do something right with regards to economy-related crises
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:21:00 -
[558]
From the last reply i received CCP believes that Tyrannis will actually be able to pull enough materials from all tiers on the market within a week and then everyone else will jump on the pos building bandwagon too.There will be oversupply of some materials for sure.
But they seem pretty confident about it as far as i'm aware only prety much maxed skills WH and 0.0 can plunge huge enough amount of materials to actually counter this whole mess......
Sure some people already cashed and some have deployed/are building stations, but there's a large amount of people building pos/labs and they are the ones that are going to pay the price knowledge is power |
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:22:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Akita T
To be completely fair, for me personally, it was probably closer to 45% ethics issues, 45% laziness and 10% the hope CCP would for once actually do something right with regards to economy-related crises
For anyone who believed that, I have some prime swamp real estate. It produces a certain type of gas that when processed with the right factories will turn into a highly lucrative substance...
How can someone with zero ethics have '45% ethics issues'? The laziness I can believe, but 'hope CCP would for once actually do something right' is just to unbelievable! ;-)
Where does the viscous, cutthroat business sense come in, or the glee that accompanies the feeling of stamping on the competition...
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Nauplius
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:29:00 -
[560]
Back on page 16 Herschel made a point that's worth not getting lost: in accounting for one's personal or corporate profit/loss as a result of this, you must take into account that all POS structures you own are worth like a fifth of their pre-Tyrannis value.
Bet some of those gleefully bragging over their paper riches wouldn't be so rich if they properly accounted for that.
The biggest losers of this mess may prove to be not those future Planetary Interactors, but those who hold a significant fraction of their net worth in POSes and their components. Probably more true of corporations than individuals, but there it is.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:31:00 -
[561]
Edited by: Akita T on 29/05/2010 18:32:58
Originally by: Cergorach Where does the viscous, cutthroat business sense come in, or the glee that accompanies the feeling of stamping on the competition...
It's not fun if the competition is a NPC. And it's not *that* much fun either if the competition never managed to start existing (i.e. people that would be doing PI).
Quote: For anyone who believed that, I have some prime swamp real estate.
I am completely willing to submit to a neutral 3rd party full API key audit that would be confidential except to prove the claim I just made about not making any ISK from this. Find a reputable auditor that's willing to work for free (some might like to do it for free just take a peek), or pay one, and you'll get your answer. P.S. I've already made a similar offer to somebody else in the MD thread.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:36:00 -
[562]
Originally by: Pennwisedom
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 29/05/2010 13:24:13
Originally by: Zeba I've been waiting for this exact reply. When it all boils down nothing bad is happening to the game in its overall sense. Yes pi is going to be less profitable but tbh the people who were going to be making the mega profits already are mega zillionairs even before adding to the pile by jumping on this 'mistake'. The average eve player could give a flying **** about it as it doesn't effect them in the slightest as they don't use pos or have territory to spam with cheap outposts.
Matter of fact its going to have a positive effect for startup alliances with so many cheap pos and outposts to buy up and install in their little corner of nullsec. Tbh this whole thread is pretty much the industrial elites and their alts bemoaning the fact that they now don't get to add even moar isk than they could ever use to their wallets that are already full of moar isk than they could ever use. Hrmm, maybe the good doctor eyeball was correct in saying that there are parallels to be drawn between eves economy and rl. The retoric here sounds suspiciously like what you would hear in a goldman sachs boardroom meeting.
this.
tbh the PI stuffs that really matter to me are the nanite paste production chain, and probably POS fuel stuffs (gas planets are so many meaning oxygen will be to POS what trit is to modules) so that I can keep a relatively small and quite maintenance free passive income.
This thread should really be over after that post.
all this really makes me wonder.
did CCP botched? yes. quite hard actually, by making the P4 stuff from PI pretty much irrelevant.
but that's the thing: the P4's
now POS fuels?, nanite paste production? tbh quite totally unaffected by this, unless you can reprocess P4's in P3's and P3's in P2's and all the way down till raw materials.
in sum: what CCP just did was crashing the POS/outpost markets for the next weeks/months/probably couple of years. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:41:00 -
[563]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 29/05/2010 18:42:31
Originally by: Dragossin Well i was just thinking about what could happen next and i came up with this:
What would happen if ccp "transformed" all PI-materials currently ingame into worthless junk (cookies!) and made all old pos's components recycle for 10 %. Probably even change them back to 100 % after some (unannounced) timeframe.
Seriously, i would love seeing that, because then those people would have spend a nice amount of cash on worthless junk. On the other hand, as this would classify as a exploit (usage of a game mechanic in a way this mechanic was not meant to be used) in most others mmorpgs, they would still be better of.
except that
-if you build the right POS mods now, you escape all the consequences and still get all the money. also, nothing will happen until Wednesday, leaving plenty of time - the t4 PI market is therefore still screwed for several months because there's huge oversupplies of POS equipment - you penalize innocent third parties who just want to use their shiny new blueprints because the materials are now and have been purchasable on the market since wednesday for exceedingly cheap prices.
right now, i'm with the calling-your-bluff crowd. either CCP do a rollback (for three days now? haha, yeah right) or a pseudorollback (cancel POS/station jobs in progress, return all isk spent on t4 mats, delete all t4 materials, all of which is very troublesome and will result in worse GM headaches than the 1.5hr database screwup), or they do absolutely nothing apart from plugging the leak and letting the powers of the free market work it out
There are no half-assed solutions that will work. x10ing all the PI components leaves a gigantic loophole for anyone who builds now and escapes the wrath of Chronotis. Deleting or cookieifying all the t4 mods still leaves loopholes and additional economic/player relations damage
face it, the stuff is in the economy now, it can only be removed via drastic measures or ignored _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Drudging
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:41:00 -
[564]
Akita, your thread reads like a label on Dr Bronners magic soap. |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:46:00 -
[565]
Hi Folks,
As CCP Navigator announced, the NPC sell orders were temporarily removed to prevent further purchase for reprocessing. Granted this might inconvience the small number of people who need to buy starbase modules dependant on how many players choose to market the current stockpiles of their modules and in short the PvP competition there.
The velocity of these items is fairly low, for example around 20-50 large towers are generally bought every day around the 'verse. With the highest velocity items being silos and small batteries at around 250 a day as a ballpark figure. Hence whilst it will invaribly lead to some chaos whilst suppliers attempt to fill the gap and compete with each other and what price they are willing to settle for. The stockpiles even before Tyrannis are quite reasonbly large so there prices will fluctuate according to how fast these stocks are monetized and whether or not demand reduces during this period.
This is not the fix, but the first fix of a few, with more to follow as we announced in the first reply here that we intend that everything be ready for when Planetary Interaction launches.
More updates will follow in the days ahead.
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Terrax Norik
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:51:00 -
[566]
Time to swap some item types to mess with the stockpilers.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:52:00 -
[567]
why is it every other time i post something changes just enough to make me look like an idiot.
_____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:54:00 -
[568]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis This is not the fix, but the first fix of a few, with more to follow as we announced in the first reply here that we intend that everything be ready for when Planetary Interaction launches.
Waiting almost 3 days (wakalaka, 2010.05.27 01:17:00) to plug the hole in any way once it became public knowledge was... how should I put this... pretty poor. Also, the way you addressed the issue... removing NPC orders altogether... instead of, say, changing the NPC sell order price for the "issue" structures ? Pretty poor too.
Short of a rollback, somebody, somehow will either get the shaft, get insanely rich, or both could happen to different people at the same time. And the more you draw the conclusion of this out, the worse it gets.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Gunner
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:56:00 -
[569]
Edited by: Gunner on 29/05/2010 18:56:01 Really, if I could nominate an issue worthy of canceling accounts over, this would certainly be in the top 3 if not dealt with properly.
*** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:01:00 -
[570]
CCP its nice that you want to get fix but you do realize some people have already turned the isk back in their wallets that can not be fixed. knowledge is power |
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 19:43:00 -
[571]
Edited by: Zeba on 29/05/2010 19:45:27
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: CCP Chronotis This is not the fix, but the first fix of a few, with more to follow as we announced in the first reply here that we intend that everything be ready for when Planetary Interaction launches.
Waiting almost 3 days (wakalaka, 2010.05.27 01:17:00) to plug the hole in any way once it became public knowledge was... how should I put this... pretty poor. Also, the way you addressed the issue... removing NPC orders altogether... instead of, say, changing the NPC sell order price for the "issue" structures ? Pretty poor too.
Short of a rollback, somebody, somehow will either get the shaft, get insanely rich, or both could happen to different people at the same time. And the more you draw the conclusion of this out, the worse it gets.
I'm still curious as to why ccp would arse themselves to rollback or take anything away. The only people getting affected 'negatively' are the already insanely rich and noone cares about them. As I stated earlier its a massive boon to ccp's goal of making nullsec a highly divided map full of heavily defended fiefdoms. So whatever they come up with is going to be cosmetic at best like making the mods unrefinable when they go back on the market. Give it up MD guys, noone buys your reactionist lines of economic ruin anymoar because we all know better. It's not like there aren't already 38478343947 other ways in eve to pad your already bulging wallets.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:18:00 -
[572]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Akita T [...]Short of a rollback, somebody, somehow will either get the shaft, get insanely rich, or both could happen to different people at the same time. And the more you draw the conclusion of this out, the worse it gets.
I'm still curious as to why ccp would arse themselves to rollback or take anything away. The only people getting affected 'negatively' are the already insanely rich and noone cares about them. As I stated earlier its a massive boon to ccp's goal of making nullsec a highly divided map full of heavily defended fiefdoms. So whatever they come up with is going to be cosmetic at best like making the mods unrefinable when they go back on the market. Give it up MD guys, noone buys your reactionist lines of economic ruin anymoar because we all know better. It's not like there aren't already 38478343947 other ways in eve to pad your already bulging wallets.
Of course they wouldn't do a rollback (or at least, it's very, very, very unlikely). My point (other than a throwback to Chronotis' "dire warning" maybe-bluff) was that there's a lot of potential for some classes of people to get screwed by this to some extent. Ultimately it's CCP's near future actions which will decide who gets screwed and in which manner exactly. Also, how long they wait until they act also helps decide how many will be affected - and yes, the effects can still propagate even with the structures taken off from the NPC market.
I kept saying it in the past, I keep saying it now, and I will keep saying it - gradual changes towards a desired end effect have overall a worse effect (not just during the transition period, but after it too) than a sudden singular change, as far as the EVE economy/market goes. They shouldn't have needed almost 3 days to make the first step, they should have made ALL the changes they would eventually make within hours, or one day maximum. They have all the data (including data players would find it very difficult to obtain), they have more than enough feedback from us (and they kept having it for a while now). There is no excuse for sipping champaign in the sun under a "Mission Accomplished" banner instead of canceling the celebration in order to hold an emergency meeting that can swiftly come to a decision and implement all fixes/changes in a massive sweep as soon as humanly possible.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:25:00 -
[573]
It sad, that a rollback is most likely the best option. Yet, I think its the least likely option to happen at this point.
I also doubt they are going to do the 10x fold material exchange to devalue the remaining p4 items, as it wont take into account those in manufactor or already converted to isk.
And as to wiping the queues and all "ill-gotten" p4 goods/isk from reprocessing. Thats even more unlikely then a rollback.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:29:00 -
[574]
Originally by: Akita T Of course they wouldn't do a rollback (or at least, it's very, very, very unlikely). My point (other than a throwback to Chronotis' "dire warning" maybe-bluff) was that there's a lot of potential for some classes of people to get screwed by this to some extent. Ultimately it's CCP's near future actions which will decide who gets screwed and in which manner exactly. Also, how long they wait until they act also helps decide how many will be affected - and yes, the effects can still propagate even with the structures taken off from the NPC market.
I kept saying it in the past, I keep saying it now, and I will keep saying it - gradual changes towards a desired end effect have overall a worse effect (not just during the transition period, but after it too) than a sudden singular change, as far as the EVE economy/market goes. They shouldn't have needed almost 3 days to make the first step, they should have made ALL the changes they would eventually make within hours, or one day maximum. They have all the data (including data players would find it very difficult to obtain), they have more than enough feedback from us (and they kept having it for a while now). There is no excuse for sipping champaign in the sun under a "Mission Accomplished" banner instead of canceling the celebration in order to hold an emergency meeting that can swiftly come to a decision and implement all fixes/changes in a massive sweep as soon as humanly possible.
Unless of course this entire stunt was something ccp hoped would happen for whatever reasons only they would know given that they are the only ones who truely know the actual numbers and where they want the game to go. Like I have stated and will continue to state the refine-gate lulz are not really going to have any issues with changing the overall health of the economy and has 'inadvertantly' been a huge boon to the part of the game ccp has been focusing on recently in its marketing and development directives.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Shintai
Gallente Arx Io Orbital Factories Arx Io
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:29:00 -
[575]
I would like to note that under the POS module refines to alot of minerals issue in the past. There was no removal or rollback for the involved parties. --------------------------------------
Abstraction and Transcendence: Nature, Shintai, and Geometry |
Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.29 20:58:00 -
[576]
Originally by: Akita T They shouldn't have needed almost 3 days to make the first step, they should have made ALL the changes they would eventually make within hours, or one day maximum.
They need time to code and bugtest whatever the fix is. It's not gonna be re-seeding some crap on the market, it's gonna be changes to the core guts of the game (more or less). This isn't an issue to fix and forget, this is an issue where they'll want to make sure it never ever EVER happens again. I don't think they're going to over-react by deleting inventory, but I do think they're making fundamental changes to the market, production, and recycling systems.
Also, the comments and drama in this thread are definitely for show, too. The pressure to make CCP hurry up and make more mistakes certainly serves a few purposes.
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Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:05:00 -
[577]
Originally by: Merouk Baas
Originally by: Akita T They shouldn't have needed almost 3 days to make the first step, they should have made ALL the changes they would eventually make within hours, or one day maximum.
They need time to code and bugtest whatever the fix is. It's not gonna be re-seeding some crap on the market, it's gonna be changes to the core guts of the game (more or less). This isn't an issue to fix and forget, this is an issue where they'll want to make sure it never ever EVER happens again. I don't think they're going to over-react by deleting inventory, but I do think they're making fundamental changes to the market, production, and recycling systems.
Why? The "bug" here was in CCP's pricing of npc seeded stuff. That's it. Reprocessing stuff, even NPC sold stuff has been in game forever, and never been called a bug or exploit. This time they didn't bother to check the NPC prices made sense compared to the value the items had when built (or the reverse, reprocessed) by players.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:09:00 -
[578]
Because they're in damage control mode and not really thinking, not that thinking is their strong suit, considering the state of the last two expansions. They froze stuff so they could have their weekend break, and will resume scratching their heads on Monday or Tuesday.
But somebody, somewhere, will have to prove to upper management, that this kind of thing will never happen again even if they seed stuff with the wrong price on purpose. So, what do you think the result of that will be?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:11:00 -
[579]
Originally by: Merouk Baas They need time to code and bugtest whatever the fix is.
They needed to make changes to a tiny portion of the static data, and a reset of NPC orders. That would have taken one unscheduled downtime and a couple of hours tops, most likely.
What static data ? Baseprice of the "problem" structures (ramped up to more realistic prices, followed by the reset of NPC order prices), output of P4 reactions (from 1/hour to 10/hour), volume of P4 products (from 100 m^3 to 10 m^3) and a "bump up" by a factor of 10 in P4 usage for non-problem structures. THAT, done 3 days ago, would have been just about peachy. Hell, it would also be peachy right about NOW.
Approval from the heads and/or decisions by committee, yeah, sure, that takes a week or so.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:16:00 -
[580]
They can't stop following their procedures and QA processes just because you gave them a solution you think is best, Akita. Deflate your ego a bit.
They're killing many birds with one stone, now that they have a reason to make drastic changes to the game. It's not about speed anymore, it's about thoroughness.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:18:00 -
[581]
Originally by: Merouk Baas They can't stop following their procedures and QA processes just because you gave them a solution you think is best, Akita.
And that's why I said they needed a freaking emergency meeting nearly 3 days ago. And also why I said (in other words) it will sadly most likely take a week or so.
Quote: They're killing many birds with one stone, now that they have a reason to make drastic changes to the game. It's not about speed anymore, it's about thoroughness.
No, it's about damage control, and damage control only. Those things you speak of, they had months to make. This is cleanup for one oversight, nothing more, nothing less.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:19:00 -
[582]
I still think that changing extraction rates and volumes appropriately by 3 orders of magnitude (x1000), with the bpo/bpc reqs to match this would have nullified any monetary gains, a long as all the POSes (and other items) in manufacture and all the new outposts were deleted. Maybe give some isk compensation for the trail blazers but this is all that is needed.
I am till hoping this is what they will do. I cannot believe they are going to let this slide.
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JitaBum
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:20:00 -
[583]
Where is the much vaunted economist in all this
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:25:00 -
[584]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel I still think that changing extraction rates and volumes appropriately by 3 orders of magnitude (x1000), with the bpo/bpc reqs to match this would have nullified any monetary gains
A factor of 10, and ONLY for the P4 reaction outputs (nothing changing P3 or below) would have almost exactly the same effect, and be far less work. _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:37:00 -
[585]
Edited by: Neo Gabriel on 29/05/2010 21:42:41
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Neo Gabriel I still think that changing extraction rates and volumes appropriately by 3 orders of magnitude (x1000), with the bpo/bpc reqs to match this would have nullified any monetary gains
A factor of 10, and ONLY for the P4 reaction outputs (nothing changing P3 or below) would have almost exactly the same effect, and be far less work.
Since only the p4 items are involved in this mess, that is a sound argument, but why only 10x? There is a bunch of p4 already out there. By multiplying the available and the necessary numbers by a higher magnitude, the value of the existing merchandise is decreased by that much. Are you saying that 10x would be enough?
Edit: Don't you also think that the new outposts and poses need to be taken out? People just spammed these things... If they are allowed to remain PI demand will remain weak for a long time. And I am ok with the idea of CCP reimbursing them costs (at least some of it).
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.29 21:57:00 -
[586]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel Since only the p4 items are involved in this mess, that is a sound argument, but why only 10x?
Because that's roughly how much cheaper than intended P4s were obtained for, on average, from the "issue" structures. This way, on average, out of those that still have P4s leftover, it's about even. Individually, some people lose a bit while others win a bit, but nothing too dramatic. It's the most cool-headed choice, intended to keep as much as possible the balance between not rewarding but also not punishing those that took part in any of it. Also, it has the advantage of only slightly affecting PI, in the very early days. Most of the damage to PI would be contained.
Quote: Don't you also think that the new outposts and poses need to be taken out?
If you do that, you might as well do a rollback, because that's almost what it would amount to... so, no, not really. It was CCP's screw-up, it would be kind of "un-EVE-ey" to punish people for taking advantage of something CCP took more than their sweet time to fix, no matter how much SOME would like to see them punished. Besides, it's not like it would really affect the market too much after those changes - yes, stockpiles might exist, but stockpiles of POSes and outpost thingies are far, far, FAR less massive compared to P4 stockpiles (which were/are the real problem right now). Of course, the more they wait, the more stockpiles there are... so while deleting them is kind of a no-no, moving as quickly as possible to stop the possibility to make more cheap should be their priority.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 22:05:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Merouk Baas They can't stop following their procedures and QA processes just because you gave them a solution you think is best, Akita. Deflate your ego a bit.
They're killing many birds with one stone, now that they have a reason to make drastic changes to the game. It's not about speed anymore, it's about thoroughness.
But there's no need for thoroughness. All the mechanics work just fine. The only problem here is a mismatch between prices and values on one single module. Fix that mismatch, and the problem will disappear.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.05.29 22:19:00 -
[588]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Merouk Baas They can't stop following their procedures and QA processes just because you gave them a solution you think is best, Akita. Deflate your ego a bit.
They're killing many birds with one stone, now that they have a reason to make drastic changes to the game. It's not about speed anymore, it's about thoroughness.
But there's no need for thoroughness. All the mechanics work just fine. The only problem here is a mismatch between prices and values on one single module. Fix that mismatch, and the problem will disappear.
The problem atm is the fact that around 1 trillion isk has gone into buying PI goods at 1/10th of their 'correct' price, no? Fixing those prices won't do anything about the stockpiles, and the stockpiles leave PI dead in the water.
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.29 22:35:00 -
[589]
Well, i can name a dozen alliances who are dropping outpost eggs this coming week thanks to this. And it was closer to 3billion isk per egg.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Auwnie Morohe
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Posted - 2010.05.29 22:42:00 -
[590]
As I understand it, the problem is that there is too much of some of the P4 materials.
How about CCP make a one time sink for those materials. I was thinking about an enhanced T1 cruiser with T2 resists or something like that. The materials to build it are a T1 cruiser and some of the P4 materials. Seed the BPCs in limited amounts.
I suppose there are other ways to draw these materials of the market it just needs to be temporary, very desirable and it needs to go kaboom into nothingness.
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:15:00 -
[591]
Edited by: wakalaka on 29/05/2010 23:16:41 About 4.5B raw cost of REA and CSJ reprocessed. And you are left with lots of remaining P4 which you could be able to sell back into the market.
Then add another 2B of minerals and NPC stuff for the deployment of the Egg, at current value.
A cost of 5B-6B per Outpost deployment would be accurate.
You also had to add the investment into BPOs. For the very basic setup, +3B of BPO for a 1 month building plan.
Or consider a speed setup to chain the construction of outposts. This would involve enough Station parts BPO as to build them faster than the Egg (which has <6days building time).
And manufacture slots from a dozen for the slow setup, to about 54 for fast speed.
This means, about 8-9B initial investment minimum to make the first Egg.
Congratulations to the winners.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:18:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Merouk Baas They can't stop following their procedures and QA processes just because you gave them a solution you think is best, Akita. Deflate your ego a bit.
They're killing many birds with one stone, now that they have a reason to make drastic changes to the game. It's not about speed anymore, it's about thoroughness.
But there's no need for thoroughness. All the mechanics work just fine. The only problem here is a mismatch between prices and values on one single module. Fix that mismatch, and the problem will disappear.
The problem atm is the fact that around 1 trillion isk has gone into buying PI goods at 1/10th of their 'correct' price, no? Fixing those prices won't do anything about the stockpiles, and the stockpiles leave PI dead in the water.
Hence why you make the change functionally retroactive, with the 10:1 scaling. Again, this is pretty simple stuff. It might not be the best solution(though I can't think of any that aren't worse, barring use of a time machine), but it's simple, and not really something that requires QA work.
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Vilgan i'Lakin
Pirates and Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:23:00 -
[593]
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing Well, i can name a dozen alliances who are dropping outpost eggs this coming week thanks to this. And it was closer to 3billion isk per egg.
That's pretty interesting considering eggs take a week to build. Apparently, people who went for the reproc opportunity not only got cheaper P4 mats, but they also acquired the ability to produce ~3600 station parts (just under a day per part normally) in ZERO TIME!
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Selnix
Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:37:00 -
[594]
Originally by: Banlish What about those dirty profiteers angle?!!?!?! There's always going to be someone in EVE making money in some fashion for being 'first', oh well, it happens, we live, we learn, we hope it happens to us someday. PL had fountain (and every region around it forever)
u still mad about that?
The best part is that your statement of PL being the 'first' to profit from those moons is wrong given we took the majority of them from BoB/GBC when they were running R64s with small unarmed towers. Also Aridia (which was also run primarily by BoB before we took it) didn't make all that much less isk than Fountain while being 100x simpler logistically.
Gotta love how you're still emo enough about it all to compare playing the game by the same rules as everyone else was subject to with what is an obvious exploit. It isn't like all those POS we were running didn't show up in local or something is it?
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:44:00 -
[595]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto Hence why you make the change functionally retroactive, with the 10:1 scaling. Again, this is pretty simple stuff. It might not be the best solution(though I can't think of any that aren't worse, barring use of a time machine), but it's simple, and not really something that requires QA work.
Not at all sure what you're arguing for here - a retroactive 10-fold price hike so that if you spent a billion on jammers and REAAs, another 9b would be automagically removed from your wallet? I imagine that would near-bankrupt a lot of the people who are heavily into this, and given what chronotis said about the daily volume of POS stuff, it'd take a *long* time to break even. Not that I'd shed tears for them, but...
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.29 23:48:00 -
[596]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/05/2010 23:59:04 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/05/2010 23:53:06 Pathetic behavior CCP.
Once again you prize exploiters.
Because you can use all the excuse and rewording on the planet, but that was just it: people exploited your bug and you don't have the BALLS to undo it.
Your game looks worthless when you leave free runners like this. So much for the competition, economy blah blah. There's no competition when all it takes is that someone is absent a week end (or in my case, actively chooses not to exploit) and everyone else can get richer tenfold in his face.
So, the honest (or just absent) players think: "I did the right thing, CCP will show them not to cheat".
And what do we get? A coward: "yes they exploited buy it's not an exploit => nothing done".
Know what? Today I have read exploiters joking in the face of those who did not jump to the bandwagon.
That's right: feel stupid and "special" because of not exploiting, while everyone else does impunely. That's a good lesson for the new players.
And then you have the holy face to ban them if players bot @5M per hour... while others made 10B in hours.
Now, in 4 months we'll see some PR and tired design by committee decision at how your hired 8 new brass to avoid future screwups and blah blah.
Too bad, it was time days ago to fix the bug THEN figure out how to implement QA. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:02:00 -
[597]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/05/2010 23:59:04 Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 29/05/2010 23:53:06 Pathetic behavior CCP.
Once again you prize exploiters.
Because you can use all the excuse and rewording on the planet, but that was just it: people exploited your bug and you don't have the BALLS to undo it.
It's the end of the worlds as we know it.
Apply | CBSN Lounge
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Vilgan i'Lakin
Pirates and Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:10:00 -
[598]
Kind of entertaining how people think this is the end of PI but ignore the 928390482342 clicks involved. PI's current interface/experience is the biggest enemy of PI, not this reproc thing. Make the PI experience not suck and give it decent output and it'll improve PI long term a lot more than punishing reproc lemmings.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:12:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus Not at all sure what you're arguing for here - a retroactive 10-fold price hike so that if you spent a billion on jammers and REAAs, another 9b would be automagically removed from your wallet? I imagine that would near-bankrupt a lot of the people who are heavily into this, and given what chronotis said about the daily volume of POS stuff, it'd take a *long* time to break even, and would be punitive without affecting the surplus. Not that I'd shed tears for them, but...
If you mean 'retroactively reduce the amount of P4 goods you get from melting cynojammers', that goes a long way to fixing the surplus, but creates different problems.
It's been described more extensively in past posts, but the short version is that you increase the build requirements on all the non-problem items by a factor of 10, and then increase P4 production by a factor of 10 as well. Basically, it nerfs all stockpiles by a factor of 10, while leaving everything else unchanged.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:17:00 -
[600]
Originally by: Vilgan i'Lakin Kind of entertaining how people think this is the end of PI but ignore the 928390482342 clicks involved. PI's current interface/experience is the biggest enemy of PI, not this reproc thing. Make the PI experience not suck and give it decent output and it'll improve PI long term a lot more than punishing reproc lemmings.
WAAAAAY ahead of you The joke is that the official reason as to why they delayed PI was that they had "scalability issues which led to code refactoring" (in other words, they had no serious intention to work more on the interface nor rebalance anything, it was just working slow). What a joke
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Banlish
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:28:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: Banlish What about those dirty profiteers angle?!!?!?! There's always going to be someone in EVE making money in some fashion for being 'first', oh well, it happens, we live, we learn, we hope it happens to us someday. PL had fountain (and every region around it forever)
u still mad about that?
The best part is that your statement of PL being the 'first' to profit from those moons is wrong given we took the majority of them from BoB/GBC when they were running R64s with small unarmed towers. Also Aridia (which was also run primarily by BoB before we took it) didn't make all that much less isk than Fountain while being 100x simpler logistically.
Gotta love how you're still emo enough about it all to compare playing the game by the same rules as everyone else was subject to with what is an obvious exploit. It isn't like all those POS we were running didn't show up in local or something is it?
Maybe you can take reading 101 and get over yourself all in the same line. I didn't say it as EMO or anger, It was a congratulatory move. I said something like 2 years ago that it was a smart tactical move on PL's part to take the region and then expand outwards. But hey, and unlike a few people I actually have a good deal of people I respect in PL (Sakana, Shadoo, etc) people that I knew before PL was around.
Notice how it says 'live, learn and hope it happens to us someday'. There's no venom in that, just because we shoot at each other in a game doesn't mean I have to hate the person on the other side of it.
The best part about the statement you made, is your so quick to rush and think I hate you or PL for making a good move. My lord, grow up and realize it's still a game.
Or I can take the route you did, not really understand much, but throw out an internet meme of 'you mad?'.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:33:00 -
[602]
Edited by: Grozen on 30/05/2010 00:33:32 I think people are rejoicing way too early with the whole stuff and the whole "haha i exploited ccp and i got away just fine atitude" should be kept for last when we see all measures that are about to come.
Why would they warn people to stop investing in the bug if they weren't planing something fishy.
Apart from that i'm one of dumb heads that has honor and didn't exploited(i did reprocess 3modules to see the end results but never build or sold anything for isk.) the situation and you know what i don't feel even this bit angry.Thanks to capital construction parts i made some extra cash in legal way knowledge is power |
Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:38:00 -
[603]
seeing sisi had a patch i take a look and... oh surpresing ; no "refine" button on pos modules
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Megadon
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:38:00 -
[604]
Edited by: Megadon on 30/05/2010 00:38:41
Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Originally by: Zeke Mobius CCP stop acting like BP and get off your butts and fix this!
If CCP were to act like BP then it would mean that they were cleaning up a problem that was not theirs to begin with. The oil rig, oil rig staff and oil rig procedures were not BPs but Transocean. BP is getting the flak because ignorant yanks love blaming the Brits for everything.
Your example is lacking.
********************** I hate to bust your bubble Capt Mega, but you need to investigate the truth before taking sides. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704026204575266560930780190.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories
I suspect BP will be spanked HARD for their FU.
Boost Amarr
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.30 00:53:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus The problem atm is the fact that around 1 trillion isk has gone into buying PI goods at 1/10th of their 'correct' price, no? Fixing those prices won't do anything about the stockpiles, and the stockpiles leave PI dead in the water.
thing is, that's assuming that PI will only serve to build up POS structures and sov stuff, which is quite wrong.
below P4, you have stuff like nanite paste, POS fuels (oxygen, enriched uranium, coolant and robotics), and T2 production stuffs.
these things you can't get out of P4's unless CCP allowed them to be refined (and you can't refine P4's to basic components, afaik).
so, as I said time and time again: this will only affect P4 stuffs, unless you want to see P3's and below so cheap that it won't be even worth the effort to mine them planets, meaning you'll see a market with no POS fuels, nanite paste and certain T2 components.
so my prediction, totally based on this data is: people will setup production chains up to P3 products, because that's where the money is.
but then again, I might be totally wrong, and this post is totally bonkers. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.30 01:00:00 -
[606]
Edited by: Akita T on 30/05/2010 01:01:44
Originally by: Maewei Balducci seeing sisi had a patch i take a look and... oh surpresing ; no "refine" button on pos modules
Indeed, there isn't. Nice giving everybody even more of an advance warning, if some people didn't YET reprocess their stuff
Originally by: Grimpak these things you can't get out of P4's unless CCP allowed them to be refined (and you can't refine P4's to basic components, afaik).
No, but you can still refine nanite paste into two types of P3 and one of P2 Not sure it will do any good though... still... hilarious.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.30 01:17:00 -
[607]
Doesn't seem like total fix to me but atleast its full stop to reprocessing modules.Now lets see how they'll counter the already made isk/stuff. knowledge is power |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.30 01:40:00 -
[608]
Edited by: Grimpak on 30/05/2010 01:43:21
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 30/05/2010 01:15:57
Originally by: Grimpak these things you can't get out of P4's unless CCP allowed them to be refined (and you can't refine P4's to basic components, afaik).
No, but you can (still?) refine nanite paste into two types of P3 and one of P2 Not sure it will do any good though... still... hilarious.
well, uniwiki's page state that the stuffs you get out of reprocessing nanite paste are only good for either that OR POS/sov structures (nanites are 2nd tier component in Recursive Computing Module and Wetware Mainframe, while data chips are 3rd tier component in Broadcast Node and Gel-matrix biopaste is also a 3rd tier component in Integrity Response Drones), which brings us to the first point: seeing the R0-P4 production chain is pretty much one-way (you can't transform P4 in R0), the issue is pretty much self-contained to POS and Sov structures, since the stuffs you get out of these are really not used in any other type of stuff.
that means that certain schematics are pretty much bonkers, but a careful look at the same page will also show that quite a number of stuffs are still used to produce the P1/2/3 materials required for nanite paste, T2 production and POS fuels.
here's the link for the people that don't know and for the ones that might bother to create a chart of the non-affected materials.
so my point with this tirade is, is PI dead on arrival? no, but it sure took quite a hard hit before birth. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:05:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Akita T
...nope, nothing else major seems to have been altered.
the clickfest is gone, it's major for me. (didn't say it before, cause no link to this thread, but the routes are not deleted now, you only need to rechoose a cycle for your extractors, no need to redo all the links works after)
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:08:00 -
[610]
Originally by: Megadon Edited by: Megadon on 30/05/2010 00:38:41
Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Originally by: Zeke Mobius CCP stop acting like BP and get off your butts and fix this!
If CCP were to act like BP then it would mean that they were cleaning up a problem that was not theirs to begin with. The oil rig, oil rig staff and oil rig procedures were not BPs but Transocean. BP is getting the flak because ignorant yanks love blaming the Brits for everything.
Your example is lacking.
********************** I hate to bust your bubble Capt Mega, but you need to investigate the truth before taking sides. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704026204575266560930780190.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLETopStories
I suspect BP will be spanked HARD for their FU.
Share ownership of BP by area
UK - 40% USA - 39%
SKUNK (o)
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Qolde
Minmatar art of eve Gunmen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:15:00 -
[611]
Does anyone believe that since the prices of POS will go down, that that will put it at a different part of the supply & demand curve, and allow more people to buy them who could not afford them before, and subsequently get them blown up, thereby lessening the whole "year long worthlessness" of P4?
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:28:00 -
[612]
Originally by: Qolde Does anyone believe that since the prices of POS will go down, that that will put it at a different part of the supply & demand curve, and allow more people to buy them who could not afford them before, and subsequently get them blown up, thereby lessening the whole "year long worthlessness" of P4?
Refer to related thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1325849
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:50:00 -
[613]
Ok. This thread is now officialy dead and buried. All we have left are the MD crowd haggling over the last .00000000000005% of the profits to be made. Nothing to see here. Move along, move along..
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.30 02:53:00 -
[614]
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 30/05/2010 02:53:48
Originally by: Qolde Does anyone believe that since the prices of POS will go down, that that will put it at a different part of the supply & demand curve, and allow more people to buy them who could not afford them before, and subsequently get them blown up, thereby lessening the whole "year long worthlessness" of P4?
well at least even without the bug i was thinking of waiting somes days after Pi to buy a new laborotary HS pos (and lots of others people i think), as it was very clear than pos modules prices will crash for everyone who tried pi on sisi (cause you will makes billions of isk with pi if the prices stay the same)
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Sephoron
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Posted - 2010.05.30 04:17:00 -
[615]
*Happily watches as people realize they're about to get owned for jumping the gun, and fathoms various ways that CCP with deal with this issue* Hand me some of that Popcorn Letrange, and I'll need that extra pocket umbrella in your pack. Thanks!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.30 05:32:00 -
[616]
Edited by: Akita T on 30/05/2010 05:35:17
Originally by: Maewei Balducci
Originally by: Akita T ...nope, nothing else major seems to have been altered.
the clickfest is gone, it's major for me. (didn't say it before, cause no link to this thread, but the routes are not deleted now, you only need to rechoose a cycle for your extractors, no need to redo all the links works after)
Hmm, so at least no more route clicks ? Well, that removes half of the extraction-related clicking, so about 1/4 to 1/3 of the overall workload. Halfway decent, I suppose. Still not quite good enough though.
Originally by: Maewei Balducci it was very clear than pos modules prices will crash for everyone who tried pi on sisi (cause you will makes billions of isk with pi if the prices stay the same)
ORLY ? Doesn't seem like it would be anywhere close to other alternatives like, say, regular mining, or belt-ratting, or mission-running or whatever else you can do to make ISK. So, unless you start to see a lot of PI macros working their little tiny arses off, I really, REALLY doubt prices would crash because of PI, quite the exact opposite (if these past 4 days wouldn't have happened, that is).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.05.30 06:31:00 -
[617]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
It's been described more extensively in past posts, but the short version is that you increase the build requirements on all the non-problem items by a factor of 10, and then increase P4 production by a factor of 10 as well. Basically, it nerfs all stockpiles by a factor of 10, while leaving everything else unchanged.
Not convinced this would work. I think it's reasonable to assume that those who've jumped on this are both reasonably aware of what CCP are doing and had a plan for their P4 goods beyond 'purchase, stash, ????, profit'. My expectation is that the greater part of that trillion-odd isk will be laundered ASAP by putting it into build jobs, so unless CCP can cancel all POS/outpost related build orders, the stockpile would remain untouched by your proposal.
Originally by: Grimpak
thing is, that's assuming that PI will only serve to build up POS structures and sov stuff, which is quite wrong.
below P4, you have stuff like nanite paste, POS fuels (oxygen, enriched uranium, coolant and robotics), and T2 production stuffs.
these things you can't get out of P4's unless CCP allowed them to be refined (and you can't refine P4's to basic components, afaik).
Fair point, but that means that everyone with an interest in PI will be forced to focus on those things, pushing prices/profits much further down than they 'should' be.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.30 07:08:00 -
[618]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto It's been described more extensively in past posts, but the short version is that you increase the build requirements on all the non-problem items by a factor of 10, and then increase P4 production by a factor of 10 as well. Basically, it nerfs all stockpiles by a factor of 10, while leaving everything else unchanged.
Not convinced this would work. I think it's reasonable to assume that those who've jumped on this are both reasonably aware of what CCP are doing and had a plan for their P4 goods beyond 'purchase, stash, ????, profit'. My expectation is that the greater part of that trillion-odd isk will be laundered ASAP by putting it into build jobs, so unless CCP can cancel all POS/outpost related build orders, the stockpile would remain untouched by your proposal.
It's obviously not perfect. But remember, build queues are much more limited than market orders. Some of it will be laundered in build queues, but I expect that quite a lot will be sitting in stockpiles. It doesn't roll back the problem fully, but I don't want it to. If you can't roll back the three days people have spent frantically flying freighters around the known universe, you probably shouldn't roll back all their profits from doing so either.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.30 07:26:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Originally by: Grimpak
thing is, that's assuming that PI will only serve to build up POS structures and sov stuff, which is quite wrong.
below P4, you have stuff like nanite paste, POS fuels (oxygen, enriched uranium, coolant and robotics), and T2 production stuffs.
these things you can't get out of P4's unless CCP allowed them to be refined (and you can't refine P4's to basic components, afaik).
Fair point, but that means that everyone with an interest in PI will be forced to focus on those things, pushing prices/profits much further down than they 'should' be.
thus my statement that PI is not dead on arrival, just badly beaten up and all bruised over even before it was born. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Gribzor
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Posted - 2010.05.30 07:28:00 -
[620]
CCP SQL guy:
delete from userowned_items where item_type='p4';
Oh I gonna love the tears on this forum when they delete all stocks before the PI starts... epix
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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.05.30 07:39:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Gribzor CCP SQL guy:
delete from userowned_items where item_type='p4';
Oh I gonna love the tears on this forum when they delete all stocks before the PI starts... epix
Oh that's a good idea, here is a hopefully working query, feel free to execute it on the TQ Database, it certainly will not do any harm
DELETE FROM `invItems` WHERE `typeID` IN (SELECT `typeID` FROM `invTypes` WHERE `groupID` = 1041);
Afterwards just blame it on PrismX
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TheCrazyT
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Posted - 2010.05.30 08:54:00 -
[622]
Originally by: Qoi
Originally by: Gribzor CCP SQL guy:
delete from userowned_items where item_type='p4';
Oh I gonna love the tears on this forum when they delete all stocks before the PI starts... epix
Oh that's a good idea, here is a hopefully working query, feel free to execute it on the TQ Database, it certainly will not do any harm
DELETE FROM `invItems` WHERE `typeID` IN (SELECT `typeID` FROM `invTypes` WHERE `groupID` = 1041);
Afterwards just blame it on PrismX
People that buyed the P4 stuff from the market without knowing what is going on will probably really be amused about that
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Gribzor
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Posted - 2010.05.30 09:22:00 -
[623]
Quote: People that buyed the P4 stuff from the market without knowing what is going on will probably really be amused about that
Well.. everybody knows PI would start days after the launch of the expansion.. Also, if player 1 buys ISK and buys stuff from player 2 with that ISK, CCP will remove the bought ISK from player 1 AND player 2.. It sucks, but go complain at the person who bought the stuff...
Same for PI stuff, if CCP removes the items.. you start complaining at the seller because he got it using a known exploit (yes, I think its an exploit).
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2010.05.30 09:38:00 -
[624]
Originally by: Qoi Oh that's a good idea, here is a hopefully working query, feel free to execute it on the TQ Database, it certainly will not do any harm
DELETE FROM `invItems` WHERE `typeID` IN (SELECT `typeID` FROM `invTypes` WHERE `groupID` = 1041);
Afterwards just blame it on PrismX
You'd have to modify it to catch all the materials already placed in build jobs, or Tyrannis would still be remembered for time to come as the '90% outpost discount' patch. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.30 09:45:00 -
[625]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Qoi Oh that's a good idea, here is a hopefully working query, feel free to execute it on the TQ Database, it certainly will not do any harm
DELETE FROM `invItems` WHERE `typeID` IN (SELECT `typeID` FROM `invTypes` WHERE `groupID` = 1041);
Afterwards just blame it on PrismX
You'd have to modify it to catch all the materials already placed in build jobs, or Tyrannis would still be remembered for time to come as the '90% outpost discount' patch.
It shouldn't be so difficult to filter all jobs coming from blueprints that can only be installed with P4 materials. Even going backwards through the industry logs to remove what was already delivered. Then reversing all buy orders of POS modules since the patch (unless it's anchored, I guess). --------
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TheCrazyT
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Posted - 2010.05.30 09:47:00 -
[626]
Originally by: Gribzor
Quote: People that buyed the P4 stuff from the market without knowing what is going on will probably really be amused about that
Well.. everybody knows PI would start days after the launch of the expansion.. Also, if player 1 buys ISK and buys stuff from player 2 with that ISK, CCP will remove the bought ISK from player 1 AND player 2.. It sucks, but go complain at the person who bought the stuff...
Same for PI stuff, if CCP removes the items.. you start complaining at the seller because he got it using a known exploit (yes, I think its an exploit).
Sadly you can't trace everything back ... there were people that build structures by the parts and earned money by selling them. Bad thing is that people probably already produce the structures right now and they only need some days to do this.
Lets just hope we don't get any other surprises when the command centers are buyable on the market. The P4 prices will change then of course ... but it probably will take some time till it gets balanced. Currently you can't really calculate the future prices of the parts, because you don't really know how many minerals you get from planets.(there are probably rare minerals you only get from 0-sec) I guess some people selling those P4 items right now will get in trouble when they still try to sell them at the current prices Not everybody of those using the exploit will be a winner I guess.
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Darth Vapour
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Posted - 2010.05.30 10:15:00 -
[627]
Edited by: Darth Vapour on 30/05/2010 10:16:17
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Qoi Oh that's a good idea, here is a hopefully working query, feel free to execute it on the TQ Database, it certainly will not do any harm
DELETE FROM `invItems` WHERE `typeID` IN (SELECT `typeID` FROM `invTypes` WHERE `groupID` = 1041);
Afterwards just blame it on PrismX
You'd have to modify it to catch all the materials already placed in build jobs, or Tyrannis would still be remembered for time to come as the '90% outpost discount' patch.
It shouldn't be so difficult to filter all jobs coming from blueprints that can only be installed with P4 materials. Even going backwards through the industry logs to remove what was already delivered. Then reversing all buy orders of POS modules since the patch (unless it's anchored, I guess).
Imagine the Butterfly Effect that CCP so eagerly uses for they EVE publicity. But instead of a butterfly it's Mothra and her entire extended family flapping their wings as hard as they can for 5 days now. That's the impact of what has happened.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.30 10:27:00 -
[628]
It needs three simple steps: 1.) remove all P4 materials 2.) cancel all jobs of blueprints that require P4 materials (with normal cancel effects) 3.) reverse all transactions (market and contract) of starbase and sovereignty structures since Patch Day unless the affected item is anchored.
Granted, for that level of database wizardry you probably require PrismX. --------
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Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.30 10:51:00 -
[629]
Originally by: TheCrazyT
Sadly you can't trace everything back
Don't have to. I can think of a couple ways to gather the initial data in a 'relatively simple' set of queries, but the sensitivity of the data being mined would probably require their IA department handle the research.
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.05.30 11:05:00 -
[630]
This is great because there is already an established market for the products, and builders can set up their bpo collection.
Thank you CCP.
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:30:00 -
[631]
Originally by: Abrazzar It needs three simple steps: 1.) remove all P4 materials 2.) cancel all jobs of blueprints that require P4 materials (with normal cancel effects) 3.) reverse all transactions (market and contract) of starbase and sovereignty structures since Patch Day unless the affected item is anchored.
Granted, for that level of database wizardry you probably require PrismX.
brain surgery is so easy guys
1) open brain 2) locate bad brain parts 3) fix brain
seriously, i think it would be easier for CCP to develop a time-travel device and go back to warn their past selves then it would be for them to partially rollback the database like this. Components have been bought, sold, contracted, built, bought and sold again, hauled, couriered, stolen, trashed, and anchored; not to mention people have already profited from this and invested/wasted the money elsewhere. How are you going to seriously trace back through the presumably millions of transactions to figure out what the database should look like had this never have happened? _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:39:00 -
[632]
Originally by: Maewei Balducci seeing sisi had a patch i take a look and... oh surpresing ; no "refine" button on pos modules
Hmm indeed there is not. Interesting...
Either way... The ripple effect of this one will still be felt as the damage is done.
Apply | Sigs
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:43:00 -
[633]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Abrazzar It needs three simple steps: 1.) remove all P4 materials 2.) cancel all jobs of blueprints that require P4 materials (with normal cancel effects) 3.) reverse all transactions (market and contract) of starbase and sovereignty structures since Patch Day unless the affected item is anchored.
Granted, for that level of database wizardry you probably require PrismX.
brain surgery is so easy guys
1) open brain 2) locate bad brain parts 3) fix brain
seriously, i think it would be easier for CCP to develop a time-travel device and go back to warn their past selves then it would be for them to partially rollback the database like this. Components have been bought, sold, contracted, built, bought and sold again, hauled, couriered, stolen, trashed, and anchored; not to mention people have already profited from this and invested/wasted the money elsewhere. How are you going to seriously trace back through the presumably millions of transactions to figure out what the database should look like had this never have happened?
well it is doable.
it would take a ginormous ammount of time and manpower, but it is doable ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:44:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate seriously, i think it would be easier for CCP to develop a time-travel device and go back to warn their past selves then it would be for them to partially rollback the database like this. Components have been bought, sold, contracted, built, bought and sold again, hauled, couriered, stolen, trashed, and anchored; not to mention people have already profited from this and invested/wasted the money elsewhere. How are you going to seriously trace back through the presumably millions of transactions to figure out what the database should look like had this never have happened?
I don't think anyone expects CCP to do a thing about people's profits per se; their sole objective, as I see it, will be to eliminate or at least drastically reduce the stockpiles of P4 goods and things produced from them. My expectation is that anyone who's laundered their melted goods quickly will be OK, but anyone left holding the bag will get the shaft in a big way.
Or they could just go with some half thought-out kneejerk response that will give rise to ridiculous arbitrage opportunities; that works too.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:45:00 -
[635]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Abrazzar It needs three simple steps: 1.) remove all P4 materials 2.) cancel all jobs of blueprints that require P4 materials (with normal cancel effects) 3.) reverse all transactions (market and contract) of starbase and sovereignty structures since Patch Day unless the affected item is anchored.
Granted, for that level of database wizardry you probably require PrismX.
brain surgery is so easy guys
1) open brain 2) locate bad brain parts 3) fix brain
seriously, i think it would be easier for CCP to develop a time-travel device and go back to warn their past selves then it would be for them to partially rollback the database like this. Components have been bought, sold, contracted, built, bought and sold again, hauled, couriered, stolen, trashed, and anchored; not to mention people have already profited from this and invested/wasted the money elsewhere. How are you going to seriously trace back through the presumably millions of transactions to figure out what the database should look like had this never have happened?
You dont.
CCP ****ed up becuase it took them 3! days before shutting down pos mods. It should have been done within hours.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:51:00 -
[636]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate brain surgery is so easy guys
If you know what you're doing, it is. --------
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.05.30 12:56:00 -
[637]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate brain surgery is so easy guys
If you know what you're doing, it is.
even if you know what you're doing, there's just some stuff you can't fix _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.05.30 13:03:00 -
[638]
Edited by: Abrazzar on 30/05/2010 13:03:34
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate brain surgery is so easy guys
If you know what you're doing, it is.
If in doubt: Lobotomize! --------
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.05.30 13:10:00 -
[639]
Seeing that large towers are up for sale for over 400 million ISK in Rens for example, people are actually making even more of a profit off it now.
Obvious troll is obvious *glares at CCP*
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.05.30 13:34:00 -
[640]
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar Seeing that large towers are up for sale for over 400 million ISK in Rens for example, people are actually making even more of a profit off it now.
But is anyone buying them? Putting them up is one thing but if everyone is going 'lulz i'll just wait till the 2nd' then it will actually be a slight loss due to the broker fee's.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.05.30 14:27:00 -
[641]
Edited by: iP0D on 30/05/2010 14:27:46
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar Seeing that large towers are up for sale for over 400 million ISK in Rens for example, people are actually making even more of a profit off it now.
But is anyone buying them? Putting them up is one thing but if everyone is going 'lulz i'll just wait till the 2nd' then it will actually be a slight loss due to the broker fee's.
Yup, people are buying. Yesterday more so then today, but it more or less comes down to people working it for three things: isk, general reserves and item stocks (to not have to bother with PI for a long time to come). That last thing is something new to this kind of market (ab)use tbh, but, looking at PI I can understand why people would want to push it ahead.
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.05.30 15:08:00 -
[642]
Edited by: Dawne Xi on 30/05/2010 15:09:45
Originally by: Ulviirala Vauryndar Seeing that large towers are up for sale for over 400 million ISK in Rens for example, people are actually making even more of a profit off it now.
Obvious troll is obvious *glares at CCP*
Towers were up for sale in Rens for 400m isk over a month ago... how is this part of the PI problem? What you should be looking for are towers that are underecutting the NPC market. I doubt this 400m isk tower is from that.
Edit: Yes I know this because I've been shopping for a used tower off on for a while now, hoping to find a deal before PI came out.. I finally just bought one from the NPC's recently.
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.05.30 15:44:00 -
[643]
Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 30/05/2010 15:44:49 All major trade hubs have some items that are more expensive than the NPC sell orders or player orders a bit off the road. That was merely traders though, offering wares to people who have the ISKies or simply can't be bothered flying 6+ jumps to the nearest station where they are sold.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, there are at least two groups of POS structures that you can't get in the same location or same station. Even more effort, so you were just paying for the "courier job", too.
Now you have no choice but to buy them if you urgently need some of these structures and don't have any on stock, those situations arise :)
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Dogfighter
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Posted - 2010.05.30 16:35:00 -
[644]
CCP, this is for YOU:
EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE EPIC FAILURE
THE GREATEST EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.30 16:51:00 -
[645]
Originally by: JitaBum Where is the much vaunted economist in all this
Concelror troy is buisy stating the blindly obvious.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.31 00:21:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Steve Thomas
Originally by: JitaBum Where is the much vaunted economist in all this
Counselor Troy is busy stating the blindly obvious.
Probably re-enacting scenes from "Sleeping Beauty", actually
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2010.05.31 02:27:00 -
[647]
Posting in an Akita T mega-thread
SKUNK (o)
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.31 02:48:00 -
[648]
just fyi your numbers for outpost prices are too low, they were about 7b all told
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.31 03:21:00 -
[649]
Originally by: Weaselior just fyi your numbers for outpost prices are too low, they were about 7b all told
Prices fluctuated wildly these past days, from 5 to 3 to 7 to 4 to whatever. Suffice to say "dirt cheap" and leave it at that.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.31 04:53:00 -
[650]
Originally by: Dogfighter CCP, this is for YOU:
EPIC FAILURE(etc.)
THE GREATEST EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hardly. It's #3. #1 was not firing t20, #2 was boot.ini in Trinity. Still, it's pretty impressive.
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.05.31 09:53:00 -
[651]
Last I checked it costs 16 million to make a previously 13.5 million ISK Silo. I'd chase the cost to 20 million (people still need Silo's) but the mysterious 2nd of June looms near.
Well at least that BPO is paid off already.
This has been your free market tip of the day. Enjoy!
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Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.31 15:15:00 -
[652]
"NPC sell orders for starbase structures have been temporarily disabled
During downtime on Saturday, May 29, all NPC sell orders for starbase structures, sovereignty structures and station components were temporarily disabled. These orders will be restored temporarily on Wednesday, June 2 until Planetary Interaction is fully operational."
So, why will the sell order will be restored on June 2? PI is still sheduled for June 8, or?
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.06.01 06:18:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Arajus PI is still sheduled for June 8, or?
From the looks of it .. unfortunately, yes.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.01 06:18:00 -
[654]
Originally by: Arajus So, why will the sell order will be restored on June 2? PI is still sheduled for June 8, or?
If you look on SiSi, you will notice that you can no longer reprocess POS structures, so at least the big gaping hole through which cheap P4 materials can come through has been plugged, even if build ratios have remained unchanged on SiSi at this time (they might still change for Tyrannis 1.0.2 which most likely will come June 8 or June 9). PI start is still scheduled for June 8 (with or without Tyrannis 1.0.2), so the NPC orders will remain active at least that long, if not longer.
Now, you have at least two possible big scenarios, each with some sub-scenarios.
First scenario is that CCP decides to change absolutely nothing about build ratios for towers nor P4 production. In that case, whoever already participated in this will basically be pretty rich, PI will suffer a little for SOME specific P4 combinations (those that were created in excess via this oversight), but will hilariously be MUCH MORE VALUABLE for other types of P4s (those that cost the most now too). Sadly, this is probably the best course of action at this time, leave it at the changes you see on SiSi. The only drawback is that is rewards those that sunk a lot of ISK into it, which would mean Chronotis either was bluffing or was unaware of the economic consequences at the time he made his "dire warning" post.
The second scenario is that CCP decides to multiply P4 material need by a factor of X (most agree X=10 would be about fair), multiply P4 reaction yield to X/hour (from 1/hour) and reduce P4 volume to 1/X (so for X=10, you get 10 m^3 for a P4 instead of 100). This would basically mean that whatever stockpiles of P4 goods people still have will be as good as worth 1/X of what they're worth now. If CCP would decide on an even higher value of X (like, say, 20), that would indeed "punish" SOME of the people that got involved in it - others have already gone out of it with a lot of profit, there's nothing you can do to "punish" those. Most likely though, X will NOT be higher than 10, so it's not really that much of a punishment, just a major reduction in profit. While it would indeed make PI overall more profitable, it will also make PI more boring (far less difference between lowest and highest value P4 product).
Each of those two scenarios have two similar sub-scenarios, namely regardng the price those NPC structures will return to the market, combined with the possibility of an uneven tweak of build needs for those specific structures. If they return unchanged, build-wise (or are altered the same way the rest are altered), while the "cost balance" would be more fair considering the usefulness of those structures, this leaves ample room for a much simpler exploitation - stockpiling large amounts of those POS structures cheap, only to be sold later at higher prices since, hey, you can no longer get them cheap anyway.
So it can still be salvaged, to some degree... or it could get even more screwed up. It all depends on what else CCP has in store.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.01 07:05:00 -
[655]
Originally by: Akita T The second scenario is that CCP decides to multiply P4 material need by a factor of X (most agree X=10 would be about fair), multiply P4 reaction yield to X/hour (from 1/hour) and reduce P4 volume to 1/X (so for X=10, you get 10 m^3 for a P4 instead of 100) ... While it would indeed make PI overall more profitable, it will also make PI more boring (far less difference between lowest and highest value P4 product).
Such a factor X could be introduced to resolve the problem with the P4's, but then you would make pos fuel cheap as dirt. And that would decrease the profits of PI drastically.
While there are only so many control towers and outposts to build, the pos fuel is a pretty big sink continuously demanding PI stuff. If you make the P1-P3 items that cheap (by using a multiplying factor X), then you cut off a good amount of income from PI, with pretty bad results.
PI is not only about building player owned structures but also about pos fuel.
The real problem here is that CCP is totally inconsistant with income and they don't have a plan what a player should earn (at max, in average etc) from PI. If they would have had such a plan, they would make the various P1-P4 products relative price consistant and would have calculated the components of the final products like control towers and outpost parts in regards to that. But it looks like that they just threw some dices or invented numbers out of the blue sky for the building materials of pos modules/control towers/outpost parts. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.01 07:34:00 -
[656]
Edited by: Akita T on 01/06/2010 07:35:35
Originally by: Gnulpie Such a factor X could be introduced to resolve the problem with the P4's, but then you would make pos fuel cheap as dirt. And that would decrease the profits of PI drastically.
If you say this, then you must be reading something wrong, or simply not comprehending something. Everything P3 and below remains completely and utterly unchanged. Say you pick X=10.
While now you need (or rather said, would have needed) for instance 6 pieces of 3 types of P3 to make one 100 m^3 P4 per hour in a high-tech factory, you would after the change need exactly the same 6x3 P3 to make 10 pieces of P4 of 10 m^3 each in a high tech factory per hour. Also, if you previously needed 5 of a P4 for a POS structure, you would now need 50 of them.
The volumes produced remain unchanged, the total need of P4 volume also remains unchanged, the only thing that changes is that what now used to be 1 P4 would be 10 P4. Stockpiles of P4 from the oversight-time would basically be worth 1/10 of what people that took advantage of this would have expected them to be worth, and all of PI proceeds EXACTLY AS PREVIOUSLY PLANNED.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.01 07:42:00 -
[657]
Akita, you forgot something in the X multiplication scenario. They should set taxes to currentRate/X as well. Because if they multiply resources, it will be a real pain in the ass to pay all those taxes at those volumes.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.01 07:45:00 -
[658]
Edited by: Akita T on 01/06/2010 07:46:49
Originally by: Hemp Invader Akita, you forgot something in the X multiplication scenario. They should set taxes to currentRate/X as well. Because if they multiply resources, it will be a real pain in the ass to pay all those taxes at those volumes.
NOTHING P3 OR BELOW GETS CHANGED. NO HOURLY VOLUMES GET CHANGED FOR P4 EITHER, JUST THE "GRANULARITY" OF THE PRODUCT. TAXES DO NOT NEED TO BE CHANGED.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.01 07:49:00 -
[659]
Edited by: Hemp Invader on 01/06/2010 07:55:17 So you deny that you have to get p4 out? Can you make it at a station and i wasn't aware of that?
Edit: now: Lots of stuff to get out and put at a production planet(pay X tax). make p4->launch p4->pay Y tax after: Lots of stuff to get out and put at a production planet(pay X tax). make 10xp4->launch 10xp4-> pay 10Y tax :) so now is X+Y after X+10Y
some more edit: if it is per m^3 my bad, but i understood that it was per unit, at least that was what i saw from sisi testing
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.01 07:54:00 -
[660]
Edited by: Akita T on 01/06/2010 07:55:45
Your P4 factories produce 100 m^3 of products per hour per factory in both cases. You pay exactly the same export fees in both cases, because tax is per m^3, not per object. You use the exact same input goods in both cases.
The difference is now you would have had one P4 object 100 m^3 big, in the changed version you have 10 P4 objects 10 m^3 big each. Structures would need the same volume of P4 goods, there will just be 10 times as many, as unit count goes.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.01 07:59:00 -
[661]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Gnulpie Such a factor X could be introduced to resolve the problem with the P4's, but then you would make pos fuel cheap as dirt. And that would decrease the profits of PI drastically.
If you say this, then you must be reading something wrong, or simply not comprehending something.
Right, so you meant only P4's. Okay then :-) That is actually what I suggested as one of the possible solutions earlier too.
Of course not allowing to reprocess stuff is a major bummer and makes PI much less appealing (at least to me). It is like you couldn't reprocess normal t1 stuff but much more. While with t1 you can make out of few minerals a lot of different things, you can make at PI with lots of different raw materials just very few different things.
One of the really major advantages in Eve is/was their free market. If you now fix everything so that you can't reprocess any more, you kill a huge part of that market. Because you limit trade significantly. And that is always bad.
With every day my believes get more and more confirmed that Planetary Interaction is a rushed, bugged, unfinished and badly thought out expansion. The mess with the P4 items is just another piece of the whole picture.
Delay planetary interaction a few months and MAKE IT RIGHT from the beginning on! |
Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.01 08:07:00 -
[662]
On a side note, my bet is that CCP Chronotis was bluffing.Here are my arguments: CCP put on the news bulleting Ivy league's wiki for the PI. So everyone could see what came from where. CCP modified on sisi only the reprocessable flag from the modules It took CCP 2 and a half years to modify the volume of drone region loot. Anyone up for a game of texas hold em'?
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Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.06.01 15:39:00 -
[663]
On Sisi right now every P4 item has a "broken" variant that refines into 10k tritanium.
Draw your own conclusions.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.01 15:44:00 -
[664]
Originally by: Jack Dant On Sisi right now every P4 item has a "broken" variant that refines into 10k tritanium.
Draw your own conclusions.
This sounds like a pretty fail 'fix' for what went down. All the billions already earned will be entirely unaffected. All the outposts build, too. Pathetic. --------
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Lt Angus
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.06.01 15:51:00 -
[665]
Originally by: Jack Dant On Sisi right now every P4 item has a "broken" variant that refines into 10k tritanium.
Draw your own conclusions.
oh I do hope that is the "fix" can already see making untold riches from that please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Korenti Rels
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Posted - 2010.06.01 16:03:00 -
[666]
Originally by: Akita T First scenario is that CCP decides to change absolutely nothing about build ratios for towers nor P4 production. In that case, whoever already participated in this will basically be pretty rich, PI will suffer a little for SOME specific P4 combinations (those that were created in excess via this oversight), but will hilariously be MUCH MORE VALUABLE for other types of P4s (those that cost the most now too). Sadly, this is probably the best course of action at this time, leave it at the changes you see on SiSi. The only drawback is that is rewards those that sunk a lot of ISK into it, which would mean Chronotis either was bluffing or was unaware of the economic consequences at the time he made his "dire warning" post.
Akita, you missed a detail of the changes on Sisi. Jack Dant on this same thread points it out: Originally by: Jack Dant On Sisi right now every P4 item has a "broken" variant that refines into 10k tritanium.
As i wrote here the most important part is that those P4 from reprocessing are going to be out of the PI production chain.
As for Abrazzar's comment Originally by: Abrazzar This sounds like a pretty fail 'fix' for what went down. All the billions already earned will be entirely unaffected. All the outposts build, too. Pathetic.
I disagree. Yes, those that reprocessed and have already sold for a gain, will keep that gain. And those that have already built stuff with the "cheap" P4s, will have cheap stuff in their hands.
However I doubt that there are too many outposts built in these days. And even other structures. Sure those are cheap and IF they are in the hands of alliances, they will reduce the demand for a little while. But not THAT much and THAT long. If they are in the hands of traders, those guys will probably try to get the most out of them: sure this will lower their price a bit because of competition, but they will try to get 1000% or 2000% profit over a longer time, if that is what the market can bare, instead of competing for a 400% profit in the shorter term.
But you are right Akita: the real threat to PI is not with P4 but lower tier planetary stuff. Something that you and a few others have spotted and, I'm afraid CCP, probably deafened by the big reprocessed P4 brouhaha, could have missed.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.01 16:33:00 -
[667]
Originally by: Jack Dant On Sisi right now every P4 item has a "broken" variant that refines into 10k tritanium. Draw your own conclusions.
If true (wonky SiSi), that's a big "ouch" for whoever is left holding any P4s...
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Korenti Rels
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Posted - 2010.06.01 16:44:00 -
[668]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 01/06/2010 16:37:44
Originally by: Jack Dant On Sisi right now every P4 item has a "broken" variant that refines into 10k tritanium. Draw your own conclusions.
If true (wonky SiSi), that's a big "ouch" for whoever is left holding any P4s...
P.S. Post directly below this is an evil, evil post
It IS true on Sisi. Of course we do not know if it will be true on TQ tomorrow, but I think it will. Of course you cannot check it on Sisi unless you did reprocess a starbase structure before they made the change. You'll need to trust me and Jack on this (or hold that "first ever traded P4" you bought and wait for tomorrow ).
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.06.01 16:52:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Jack Dant On Sisi right now every P4 item has a "broken" variant that refines into 10k tritanium.
Draw your own conclusions.
ahahahahaha
well, so much for a complete fix _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
AtlantisX
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Posted - 2010.06.01 16:52:00 -
[670]
I approve this fix.
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omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.06.01 16:54:00 -
[671]
Originally by: Korenti Rels
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 01/06/2010 16:37:44
Originally by: Jack Dant On Sisi right now every P4 item has a "broken" variant that refines into 10k tritanium. Draw your own conclusions.
If true (wonky SiSi), that's a big "ouch" for whoever is left holding any P4s...
P.S. Post directly below this is an evil, evil post
It IS true on Sisi. Of course we do not know if it will be true on TQ tomorrow, but I think it will. Of course you cannot check it on Sisi unless you did reprocess a starbase structure before they made the change. You'll need to trust me and Jack on this (or hold that "first ever traded P4" you bought and wait for tomorrow ).
It's been true on Sisi for 3 days now. I've been keeping quiet about it because I wanted to see people hoarding P4s lose all their isk.
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Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.06.01 17:02:00 -
[672]
Originally by: omgfreemoniez
It's been true on Sisi for 3 days now. I've been keeping quiet about it because I wanted to see people hoarding P4s lose all their isk.
I think the rush to dump it all on buy orders before they get cancelled will be even more fun...
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Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.06.01 17:13:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 01/06/2010 16:40:06
Originally by: Jack Dant On Sisi right now every P4 item has a "broken" variant that refines into 10k tritanium. Draw your own conclusions.
If true (wonky SiSi), that's a big "ouch" for whoever is left holding any P4s...
Proof
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omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.06.01 17:14:00 -
[674]
Originally by: Jack Dant
Originally by: omgfreemoniez
It's been true on Sisi for 3 days now. I've been keeping quiet about it because I wanted to see people hoarding P4s lose all their isk.
I think the rush to dump it all on buy orders before they get cancelled will be even more fun...
Way ahead of you
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Muscaat
ASCENTIS CORPORATION Free Worlds Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.01 17:15:00 -
[675]
The BBC have picked up the story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/seealso/2010/06/tech_brief_18.html ---------- EVE Markets - global price trends at your fingertips |
Korenti Rels
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Posted - 2010.06.01 17:18:00 -
[676]
Originally by: Jack Dant
Originally by: omgfreemoniez
It's been true on Sisi for 3 days now. I've been keeping quiet about it because I wanted to see people hoarding P4s lose all their isk.
I think the rush to dump it all on buy orders before they get cancelled will be even more fun...
I know it has been true for a few days. And I have been quiet about it too, but for a different reason: I was busy trying to find out if there is a way to profit from the rush to dump it all
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.06.01 17:21:00 -
[677]
Originally by: Muscaat The BBC have picked up the story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/seealso/2010/06/tech_brief_18.html
High-score
Apply | Sigs
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.06.01 17:29:00 -
[678]
Originally by: omgfreemoniez
Originally by: Jack Dant
Originally by: omgfreemoniez
It's been true on Sisi for 3 days now. I've been keeping quiet about it because I wanted to see people hoarding P4s lose all their isk.
I think the rush to dump it all on buy orders before they get cancelled will be even more fun...
Way ahead of you
Same here, it was fun.
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.01 18:48:00 -
[679]
thnx for the fish and the free isk
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.01 19:09:00 -
[680]
Edited by: Akita T on 01/06/2010 19:10:34
Sooo... whoever exploited the weakness early on and got out ASAP will have reaped more than nice rewards, and those that merely purchased P4 components from the market (in other words, did absolutely nothing wrong) get punished. Nice choices, CCP Well, I guess in a twisted way, that's quite "EVE-ey" in nature
P.S. Fakenerdrage : damn you CCP, I want my 2 mil ISK back !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.06.01 19:13:00 -
[681]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 01/06/2010 19:14:40 Yeah CCP what about people that bought stuff on the market , they may even have no clue whats was going on??????
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.01 19:17:00 -
[682]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Yeah CCP what about people that bought stuff on the market , they may even have no clue whats was going on??????
Unofficial CCP response : Linkage
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.06.01 19:52:00 -
[683]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 01/06/2010 19:19:09
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Yeah CCP what about people that bought stuff on the market , they may even have no clue whats was going on??????
Unofficial CCP response : Linkage
In other words...
Originally by: Bellum Eternus All of the 'solutions' at this point are bad. It just depends on which one is the least worst. I'm sure whatever CCP comes up with will be something totally unexpected by everyone and very unique, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be universally disliked and be far worse than anything anyone can currently think of. I can't wait. \o/
Yeah Akita, while I'm thankful that I stayed completely out of the situation, this whole thing is just going from bad to worse to "OMGWTF". Lol. -
Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust.
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. |
Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.06.01 20:20:00 -
[684]
I really like this fix, for no particular reason ...
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.01 20:34:00 -
[685]
Wow. Will the glories of CCP never cease?
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TR4D3R4LT
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Posted - 2010.06.01 20:35:00 -
[686]
Originally by: Qoi I really like this fix, for no particular reason ...
I'm anxious to hear how you would fix the existing manufacturing jobs that have been placed after Tyrannis patch with pi-goo and are now *locked* & are churning out posses and outposts 25 days from now?
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Lt Angus
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.06.01 20:43:00 -
[687]
lol and the jita price has crashed, time to buy and build an outpost for 50mill please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:02:00 -
[688]
Originally by: Lt Angus lol and the jita price has crashed, time to buy and build an outpost for 50mill
Better get that **** in the oven asap then.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:24:00 -
[689]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 01/06/2010 19:19:09
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Yeah CCP what about people that bought stuff on the market , they may even have no clue whats was going on??????
Unofficial CCP response : Linkage
In other words...
Originally by: Bellum Eternus All of the 'solutions' at this point are bad. It just depends on which one is the least worst. I'm sure whatever CCP comes up with will be something totally unexpected by everyone and very unique, but whatever it is, I'm sure it will be universally disliked and be far worse than anything anyone can currently think of. I can't wait. \o/
Yeah Akita, while I'm thankful that I stayed completely out of the situation, this whole thing is just going from bad to worse to "OMGWTF". Lol.
Personally, I'm enjoying the show. We can't do fleet fights, but watching this unfold is better than Springer.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:28:00 -
[690]
Originally by: Malcanis Personally, I'm enjoying the show. We can't do fleet fights, but watching this unfold is better than Springer.
Me too. Its quite amusing to see the MD crowd crawl out of their subforum into the light of the GD to ***** and moan about potential lost profits. From the rest of the games point of view this is a total non event that has zero effect on them past letting the smart ones pop a bunch of lulz cheap outposts and pos into the oven.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:54:00 -
[691]
I dunno about you but i am enjoying the 50 or so eggs that are currently being made thanks to this. EVE always needed more outposts.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:56:00 -
[692]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus Yeah Akita, while I'm thankful that I stayed completely out of the situation, this whole thing is just going from bad to worse to "OMGWTF". Lol.
You can say that again
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Bodega Cat
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Posted - 2010.06.01 22:51:00 -
[693]
They said they only sell about 50 large towers a day?
Wow, this entire new feature set is implemented, and thats the biggest piece of the pie we can aspire to get (on the high end obviously)?
I don't see what the big deal here is really guys, this isn't going to be THAT big of a deal when its all said and done. Yes, I do think we're in a situation where certain people are going to be in the winner column, while others in the loser column, but we're not talking about any really big profits here in the long run. Its not like free isk was printed. Short term market will be jazzed up and funky for a bit, but who really cares about that in the long run?
Lets just be honest here, we all have more fun just laughing at CCP's foul ups more than we really care about their ramifications.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.01 23:01:00 -
[694]
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing I dunno about you but i am enjoying the 50 or so eggs that are currently being made thanks to this. EVE always needed more outposts.
Tbh I think this is probably the best thing that could ever have happened to nullsec. I hope every one of those eggs that are cooking in the game atm gets turned into an outpost so that there can finally be a true market and to make defending a smaller territorial area a viable proposition against a larger enemy. At least until they can summon defensive support from allies or be enough of a pain in the arse to force some sort of stalemate. Now all ccp needs to do is to fix the damn lag.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Lt Angus
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.06.01 23:07:00 -
[695]
lol anyone with empty industry slots will regret it in the morning please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.06.01 23:15:00 -
[696]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 01/06/2010 23:15:53
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing I dunno about you but i am enjoying the 50 or so eggs that are currently being made thanks to this. EVE always needed more outposts.
Tbh I think this is probably the best thing that could ever have happened to nullsec. I hope every one of those eggs that are cooking in the game atm gets turned into an outpost so that there can finally be a true market and to make defending a smaller territorial area a viable proposition against a larger enemy. At least until they can summon defensive support from allies or be enough of a pain in the arse to force some sort of stalemate. Now all ccp needs to do is to fix the damn lag.
might actually get them to make outposts 'destroyable' (in quotes) too if there's gonna be an extra 50-60 of them
oh who am i kidding, that'll never happen _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.01 23:15:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Bodega Cat They said they only sell about 50 large towers a day?
Wow, this entire new feature set is implemented, and thats the biggest piece of the pie we can aspire to get (on the high end obviously)?
I don't see what the big deal here is really guys, this isn't going to be THAT big of a deal when its all said and done. Yes, I do think we're in a situation where certain people are going to be in the winner column, while others in the loser column, but we're not talking about any really big profits here in the long run. Its not like free isk was printed. Short term market will be jazzed up and funky for a bit, but who really cares about that in the long run?
Lets just be honest here, we all have more fun just laughing at CCP's foul ups more than we really care about their ramifications.
Well large towers are 50 a day so thats 50 total lines that will be makeing them
theres also medium and small towers as well as all the smaller structures that go with it.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.01 23:21:00 -
[698]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 01/06/2010 23:15:53
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing I dunno about you but i am enjoying the 50 or so eggs that are currently being made thanks to this. EVE always needed more outposts.
Tbh I think this is probably the best thing that could ever have happened to nullsec. I hope every one of those eggs that are cooking in the game atm gets turned into an outpost so that there can finally be a true market and to make defending a smaller territorial area a viable proposition against a larger enemy. At least until they can summon defensive support from allies or be enough of a pain in the arse to force some sort of stalemate. Now all ccp needs to do is to fix the damn lag.
might actually get them to make outposts 'destroyable' (in quotes) too if there's gonna be an extra 50-60 of them
oh who am i kidding, that'll never happen
Oh I'm certainly not saying there won't be any negatives from having outposts everywhere its just that the net gain will be worth it in the short term. Since ccp seems to work on the 'don't bother unless its in flames and going down' principle then they will have to do some rethinking on the outpost mechanics now that everyone and his pet will have a boat load set up.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Farouq Rizer
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Posted - 2010.06.01 23:21:00 -
[699]
Well thanks to the news of current P4 items about to be near useless soon, the prices on current P4 items just flat lined. I just bought enough to make a bunch of towers and now all my slots are filled.
It's going to be funny seeing how low P4 prices are going to get before server shutdown.
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.06.01 23:51:00 -
[700]
Can someone involved in making station eggs explain how the PI snafu is working for you? The station parts bpos are only 5 run (17 hours each run) and cost 200m/each. A station requires ~250 station parts, so that means 50*200mil=10billion isk in bpos, or 5 billion if you started manufacturing as soon as the PIsploit hit and are now on your second cycle.
So is that 5 billion isk in bpos just part of the cost?
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Shijo Kingo
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Posted - 2010.06.02 00:41:00 -
[701]
Originally by: Alice Celadon Can someone involved in making station eggs explain how the PI snafu is working for you? The station parts bpos are only 5 run (17 hours each run) and cost 200m/each. A station requires ~250 station parts, so that means 50*200mil=10billion isk in bpos, or 5 billion if you started manufacturing as soon as the PIsploit hit and are now on your second cycle.
So is that 5 billion isk in bpos just part of the cost?
I assume you mean BPC's not BPO's. The price of the involved BPC's has skyrocketed since this all started...
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 01:29:00 -
[702]
Edited by: Akita T on 02/06/2010 01:31:58
Originally by: Shijo Kingo
Originally by: Alice Celadon Can someone involved in making station eggs explain how the PI snafu is working for you? The station parts bpos are only 5 run (17 hours each run) and cost 200m/each. A station requires ~250 station parts, so that means 50*200mil=10billion isk in bpos, or 5 billion if you started manufacturing as soon as the PIsploit hit and are now on your second cycle. So is that 5 billion isk in bpos just part of the cost?
I assume you mean BPC's not BPO's. The price of the involved BPC's has skyrocketed since this all started...
Nope, that's the cost of outpost parts BPOs. You know, the things you still have when you're done with them He only meant buying enough BPOs (you couldn't buy any BPCs of outpost parts anyway, since there were no BPOs previously, they were introduced in Tyrannis) to manufacture enough outpost parts to start building two outpost eggs before the likely cutoff of the whole shebang. Of course, why would he consider those sunk and irrecoverable costs as opposed to at least partially recoverable investments, that's another story, and you'd have to ask him.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.06.02 02:04:00 -
[703]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 02/06/2010 01:31:58 Of course, why would he consider those sunk and irrecoverable costs as opposed to at least partially recoverable investments, that's another story, and you'd have to ask him.
why the component bpos should be considered a sunk and irrecoverable cost is obvious as all hell if you think about it for a minute
also max-run on those is 37 if anyone actually only built five per bpo lawl
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.06.02 02:10:00 -
[704]
also about 8 minmatar outposts and I think either three amarr or two amarr and one gallente got made in the forge, that's it
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.06.02 02:12:00 -
[705]
Edited by: Alice Celadon on 02/06/2010 02:12:13
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 02/06/2010 01:31:58 Of course, why would he consider those sunk and irrecoverable costs as opposed to at least partially recoverable investments, that's another story, and you'd have to ask him.
why the component bpos should be considered a sunk and irrecoverable cost is obvious as all hell if you think about it for a minute
also max-run on those is 37 if anyone actually only built five per bpo lawl
Thanks. Didn't buy one for myself and I incorrectly assumed max run was 5.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.06.02 02:15:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Alice Celadon
Thanks. Didn't buy one for myself and I incorrectly assumed max run was 5.
Max-run only applies to copies - for a bpo the max run is anything that takes less than thirty days (or one, whichever is larger)
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.06.02 02:19:00 -
[707]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Alice Celadon
Thanks. Didn't buy one for myself and I incorrectly assumed max run was 5.
Max-run only applies to copies - for a bpo the max run is anything that takes less than thirty days (or one, whichever is larger)
Yep. That shows how little I've done with BPOs. At 37/200 million plus roughly double in material costs, it's entirely worth it. Also, if as few outposts were made as you suggest, I think the BPO cost might actually be recoverable.
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Olusegun Obasanjo
Minmatar CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA
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Posted - 2010.06.02 03:26:00 -
[708]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 02/06/2010 01:31:58 Of course, why would he consider those sunk and irrecoverable costs as opposed to at least partially recoverable investments, that's another story, and you'd have to ask him.
why the component bpos should be considered a sunk and irrecoverable cost is obvious as all hell if you think about it for a minute
no... no it isnt.
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Argo Pyxis
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Posted - 2010.06.02 07:28:00 -
[709]
Edited by: Argo Pyxis on 02/06/2010 07:35:20 Edited by: Argo Pyxis on 02/06/2010 07:28:39 So one thought occurred to me just now...
We wont know until a few scant hours what will ultimately happen with the existing P4 parts stock out there. It seems that they'll be wiped from existence or converted to broken/smashed/malfunctioning analogs of the original.
If the latter happens, there will be items that have absolutely no use in EVE other than perhaps fodder for collectors. But there could be a market for them if CCP allows... to use them like one would use the existing broken/smashed/malfunctioning/fried components we already know - rigs - but these rigs would be for starbase modules. You know, take a few "malfunctioning wetware mainframes" plus some other stuff and make a tower rig to expand its CPU. Or some "crumpled sterile conduit" plus some other stuff to make a rig which expands a silo or coupler's capacity and so on.
If someone blows up a POS module, a wreck results which could be salvaged for these parts.
Granted, the only hitch here is that POS modules are waaay down on the list of things blown up regularly on a day to day basis, so supply would therefore be low and any products manufactured from these salvaged materials would fetch a high price. But perhaps with PI there will (eventually) be more modules to be blown up (or at least a greater opportunity to do so)
Just a thought... it seems kind of pointless to me for CCP to allow itemIDs to be occupied by items which have no effective or even comical use (See Also: Exotic Dancers), and therefore no effective value, if they convert them to "broken" analogs. It would make more sense to just wipe them from existence altogether.
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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.06.02 07:29:00 -
[710]
Originally by: TR4D3R4LT
Originally by: Qoi ...
I'm anxious to hear how you would fix the existing manufacturing jobs that have been placed after Tyrannis patch with pi-goo and are now *locked* & are churning out posses and outposts 25 days from now?
On an unrelated sidenote, according to the EVE API, the completion status ID 3 means "GM aborted".
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:34:00 -
[711]
Edited by: Akita T on 02/06/2010 11:39:55
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Akita T Of course, why would he consider those sunk and irrecoverable costs as opposed to at least partially recoverable investments, that's another story, and you'd have to ask him.
why the component bpos should be considered a sunk and irrecoverable cost is obvious as all hell if you think about it for a minute
Not quite so obvious, no. You do know that you won't be able to buy the outpost components from the NPC market anymore in the near future, right ? Are you suggesting nobody would ever want to build any more outposts from this moment on ? Or are you suggesting that people that bought the BPOs now would keep churning out BPCs even if they can't really sell them that often (so why the hell keep making them), and when they do, selling them at dirt-cheap prices so as to render all such blueprints practically worthless ? And even in this highly improbable worst case scenario, don't you think SOME people _would_ be more than willing to buy the BPOs from you at slightly under NPC price ?
Originally by: Qoi On an unrelated sidenote, according to the EVE API, the completion status ID 3 means "GM aborted".
It's probably true ! motherofgod.jpg
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:35:00 -
[712]
Originally by: Qoi
Originally by: TR4D3R4LT
Originally by: Qoi ...
I'm anxious to hear how you would fix the existing manufacturing jobs that have been placed after Tyrannis patch with pi-goo and are now *locked* & are churning out posses and outposts 25 days from now?
On an unrelated sidenote, according to the EVE API, the completion status ID 3 means "GM aborted".
Oh my!
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:39:00 -
[713]
At least its exciting today:).
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Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:50:00 -
[714]
Originally by: Arajus At least its exciting today:).
Yeap, the race is on for all the "Broken [...]" components for nostalgia reasons.
Apply | Sigs
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:52:00 -
[715]
Originally by: Qoi On an unrelated sidenote, according to the EVE API, the completion status ID 3 means "GM aborted".
Potential for hilarity and tears: rising!
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:57:00 -
[716]
IF ccp *does* nuke everything then they will have to reimburse the isk. Wiping out half a trillion isk because of a mistake they made isn't good
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:02:00 -
[717]
hee. server is up:
http://www.eve-offline.net/
...But we are not on it. can you guess what's happening?
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:04:00 -
[718]
hey, ccp has to respect the principle of retroactivity. It was possibe to buy and reprocess and build at the time :). If you steal a nuclear reactor and there is no law against it at the time, you get away with it, that's how society works.
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:08:00 -
[719]
Originally by: Hemp Invader hey, ccp has to respect the principle of retroactivity. It was possibe to buy and reprocess and build at the time :). If you steal a nuclear reactor and there is no law against it at the time, you get away with it, that's how society works.
Uh huh...I'm sure they're slathering respect all over build jobs right now.
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Scott Ryder
Amarr Sisters of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:11:00 -
[720]
Oh god I hope they nuke the stuff in production aswell :) That would result in well deserved tears =)
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Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:12:00 -
[721]
Just imagine if the current jobs produce broken station eggs when done.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:19:00 -
[722]
This is better than a rollback, tears-wise
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:19:00 -
[723]
Edited by: Jack Dant on 02/06/2010 12:21:52 It's up, and Jita market is full of broken P4 items
Edit: Also looks like POS mods are reseeded at old prices.
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:22:00 -
[724]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 02/06/2010 12:23:44 Boom, headshot CCP.
\/\/\/ No jobs cancelled.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:23:00 -
[725]
Were jobs cancelled?
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Uppsy Daisy
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:24:00 -
[726]
Edited by: Uppsy Daisy on 02/06/2010 12:23:50 And the outposts that are in the oven?
Affected?
(I think Shar Tegral needs to come back and make a suitable comment now)
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Kal Murmur
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:24:00 -
[727]
Ok CCP, so you've screwed us all. Now I assume you'll be taking this all the way and screwing those who've already made billions from it too, or do you only punish half the players?
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:25:00 -
[728]
jobs were not cancelled, mine are all still cooking. _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:27:00 -
[729]
All jobs are still active, well i am glad my ratting station plans have gone un-scuppered.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:27:00 -
[730]
Originally by: Kal Murmur do you only punish half the players?
Only the ****** half gets punished.
Half? I mean 95%
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Uppsy Daisy
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:30:00 -
[731]
That is hilarious.
So anyone who managed to get an outpost in the oven is good to go!!
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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:31:00 -
[732]
Originally by: Kal Murmur Ok CCP, so you've screwed us all. Now I assume you'll be taking this all the way and screwing those who've already made billions from it too, or do you only punish half the players?
It's about saving PI, not screwing players. They even warned you.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:41:00 -
[733]
Edited by: Akita T on 02/06/2010 12:42:05
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate jobs were not cancelled, mine are all still cooking.
LOL __
Also, remember THIS :
Originally by: Akita T [...] Each of those two scenarios have two similar sub-scenarios, namely regardng the price those NPC structures will return to the market, combined with the possibility of an uneven tweak of build needs for those specific structures. If they return unchanged, build-wise (or are altered the same way the rest are altered), while the "cost balance" would be more fair considering the usefulness of those structures, this leaves ample room for a much simpler exploitation - stockpiling large amounts of those POS structures cheap, only to be sold later at higher prices since, hey, you can no longer get them cheap anyway.
So it can still be salvaged, to some degree... or it could get even more screwed up. It all depends on what else CCP has in store.
Guess what price those structures are back on the market for ? IF YOU GUESSED THE OLD PRICE, YOU GUESSED RIGHT. ... umm... Buy, buy, buy ?
...not that you're going to make much of a profit with the zillion others that will also stockpile on them, but meh, you never know.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Doctor Mabuse
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:41:00 -
[734]
Originally by: Qoi They even warned you.
...and anyone heeding that warning was punished. Those ignoring it and getting stuff into production? Profit. ------------------------------------
Who's trip-trapping on my bridge? |
Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network Dignitas.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:43:00 -
[735]
So Jita is in fact filled with the broken variants and I got mine for nostalgia
Apply | Sigs
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Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.02 12:45:00 -
[736]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 02/06/2010 12:42:05
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate jobs were not cancelled, mine are all still cooking.
LOL __
Also, remember THIS :
Originally by: Akita T [...] Each of those two scenarios have two similar sub-scenarios, namely regardng the price those NPC structures will return to the market, combined with the possibility of an uneven tweak of build needs for those specific structures. If they return unchanged, build-wise (or are altered the same way the rest are altered), while the "cost balance" would be more fair considering the usefulness of those structures, this leaves ample room for a much simpler exploitation - stockpiling large amounts of those POS structures cheap, only to be sold later at higher prices since, hey, you can no longer get them cheap anyway.
So it can still be salvaged, to some degree... or it could get even more screwed up. It all depends on what else CCP has in store.
Guess what price those structures are back on the market for ? IF YOU GUESSED THE OLD PRICE, YOU GUESSED RIGHT. ... umm... Buy, buy, buy ?
...not that you're going to make much of a profit with the zillion others that will also stockpile on them, but meh, you never know.
Ok, but you cant deconstruct them anymore or? Still its strange, it means that the price you can expect after PI is available is capped for long time...
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Una Achura
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:05:00 -
[737]
Fun times. Lost a tiny bit (30 mil, hardy a problem) due to being a bit too slow to unload yesterday (thank you to the slow guy who kept up the 100k buy orders in Sobaseki).
I will laugh so much if the jobs in progress turns out to deliver broken POS modules.
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:07:00 -
[738]
Edited by: Hemp Invader on 02/06/2010 13:08:04 Thank you CCP, this was awesome. make isk.................................................................................check. sell not broken components on the market for +20% total profit...check. see epic tears not at my expense...............................................check. This expansion was market lesson 101: always try to make a profit from every opportunity.
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Sajk'Kamonde
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:08:00 -
[739]
Still, its nice to know if you get in and exploit early and make billions because of a CCP mistake, they wont punish you.
Good bluff though.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:11:00 -
[740]
Originally by: Hemp Invader Thank you CCP, this was awesome. make isk.................................................................................check. sell not broken components on the market for +20% total profit...check. see epic tears not at my expense...............................................check. This expansion was market lesson 101: always try to make a profit from every opportunity.
You forget the lesson part of "GTFO at the first sign of serious incoming trouble"
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Kephael
Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:13:00 -
[741]
Edited by: Kephael on 02/06/2010 13:25:35 This is the dumbest thing ever, everyone I know already turned their pi items into towers. They should at the very least put up buy orders for an amount to allow for refunds. __________________________________________
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:13:00 -
[742]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 02/06/2010 13:15:24 yes, the mods aren't reprocessable anymore
edit: the whole thing is a damned poor fix, but ~CCP~ _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:19:00 -
[743]
So, will the POS mods ever become reprocessable again? If yes, just buy a bunch of cyno jammers an wait until it happens, then reprocess for cheap P4 materials again. --------
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:23:00 -
[744]
No idea about you guys and gals, but to me, it almost looks like CCP is intentionally picking the WORST possible fixes overall.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:23:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Hemp Invader Thank you CCP, this was awesome. make isk.................................................................................check. sell not broken components on the market for +20% total profit...check. see epic tears not at my expense...............................................check. This expansion was market lesson 101: always try to make a profit from every opportunity.
You forget the lesson part of "GTFO at the first sign of serious incoming trouble"
We all knew it was a "bear" type of market
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omgfreemoniez
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:30:00 -
[746]
Originally by: Abrazzar So, will the POS mods ever become reprocessable again? If yes, just buy a bunch of cyno jammers an wait until it happens, then reprocess for cheap P4 materials again.
By the time reprocessing is enabled again, I imagine the market will be flooded with cheap crap from planets and the CynoJammer materials would sell at a loss.
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Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:32:00 -
[747]
Originally by: Una Achura
I will laugh so much if the jobs in progress turns out to deliver broken POS modules.
Is this still possible? Would be fun...
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Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:35:00 -
[748]
Originally by: Akita T No idea about you guys and gals, but to me, it almost looks like CCP is intentionally picking the WORST possible fixes overall.
Just the laziest. Change some items here, toggle a flag there, mass replace some item ids on bpos over here, and you are done.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:50:00 -
[749]
One man's "lazy" is another's "cost-effective solution."
Read up on how a business works; they never put in more effort than the minimum amount needed.
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Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:00:00 -
[750]
Originally by: Merouk Baas One man's "lazy" is another's "cost-effective solution."
Read up on how a business works; they never put in more effort than the minimum amount needed.
This is a quick patch tho. The underlying issue (NPC sell orders way below actual value) is still there. They removed the main way to take advantage of it (refining those mods). But the cost is that, once PI is in full swing, you can't reprocess underpriced mods as you can with ships and mods. Think that's a good compromise?
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Nilania Telshua
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:08:00 -
[751]
Edited by: Nilania Telshua on 02/06/2010 14:14:22
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing IF ccp *does* nuke everything then they will have to reimburse the isk. Wiping out half a trillion isk because of a mistake they made isn't good
Thank you. I needed that laugh right now.
You do not by any chance work or more likely worked in an executive function for an american bank irl ? ;)
Quote: I will laugh so much if the jobs in progress turns out to deliver broken POS modules.
^^ This is indeed the only solution and a rather easy one to implement. No POS parts were manufacturable before the patch, everyone manufacturing them right now is clearly identifiable exploiting the situation.
The only possible problem would be the outpost eggs, I never looked into their manufacturing process.
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Verys
Burning Technologies Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:21:00 -
[752]
This is truly an hilarious ending towards a total f**k-up.
The people who build stuff out of it for cheap go scott free, outpost for 3 billion no problems.
The people who reprocessed and sold the components got tons of money, nothing here.
The people who bought the materials and stocked them to sell on later/build on later, got so screwed that I could just believe billions upon billions will have been lost.
Two out of three parties profited and didn't get off without any problems, congratulations CCP on handling this so well.
Add drone repair bays to carriers |
General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:24:00 -
[753]
The laughs, the lulz, and the good memories will last for ages. Best fix ever.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:29:00 -
[754]
Overall, I came out pretty even, which is ok, considering I didn't put much effort into it.
Now what to build out of those 97mil tritanium.... --------
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:34:00 -
[755]
I don't think CCP will care if you guys gave ISK to the NPC's and are making profits or your money back from other players; it's still a big amount of ISK that left the economy.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:38:00 -
[756]
Originally by: Merouk Baas I don't think CCP will care if you guys gave ISK to the NPC's and are making profits or your money back from other players; it's still a big amount of ISK that left the economy.
Yup, so far it's a giant ISK sink. They should make a devblog about it. --------
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:41:00 -
[757]
Originally by: Verys This is truly an hilarious ending towards a total f**k-up.
The people who build stuff out of it for cheap go scott free, outpost for 3 billion no problems.
The people who reprocessed and sold the components got tons of money, nothing here.
The people who bought the materials and stocked them to sell on later/build on later, got so screwed that I could just believe billions upon billions will have been lost.
Two out of three parties profited and didn't get off without any problems, congratulations CCP on handling this so well.
See, let me explain this to you:
1.) That was smart 2.) That was also smart, they knew they had to get rid of it 3.) Those people were dumb.
Now you understand the difference between smart and dumb.
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Traumatica
GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:44:00 -
[758]
Anyone who sat on a stockpile of this stuff without thinking CCP would do something is too dumb to properly function in the marketplace anyways.
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:46:00 -
[759]
So to sum it up:
- Everybody who gave a fu** about being an exploit or not and starting right away the first day is very well off
- Everybody who gave a fu** about what CCP said and ignored their warning is very well off
- Everybody who didn't know about this at all and bought the components off the market is screwed
- Everybody who listened to CCP and stopped producing once CCP warned in this thread doing
anything more is ROYALLY screwed.
SO long story short: NEVER EVER DO WHAT CCP SAYS OR ADVISES! Do the direct opposite! _________________________ EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
Lt Angus
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:50:00 -
[760]
7 bill profit on 800mill starting, not such a bad patch afterall please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
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Verys
Burning Technologies Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:51:00 -
[761]
Originally by: Pennwisedom
See, let me explain this to you:
1.) That was smart 2.) That was also smart, they knew they had to get rid of it 3.) Those people were dumb.
Now you understand the difference between smart and dumb.
Now let me explain this to you:
I find the way they handled this hilarious people who quickly got rid of got huge profits (groups 1 and 2 for you) yet escaped ccp's wrath. Then they didn't call it an exploit yet made a ninja-edit which didn't even appear in the patch notes punishing the third party in this process.
This comes down to not punishing the thieves who stole a car and sold it on but instead impounding said car and never giving it back and never ever arresting the thieves even if they had proof.
Truth be told I had my hands in the first and second groups of these people and since it's not an exploit...
Add drone repair bays to carriers |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:54:00 -
[762]
NPC buy orders for broken PI4 items?
Take average costs for PI4 items according to the cyno jammer, 150k or so, and set up npc buy orders for those poor souls who trusted CCP to deliver a working product with not such glaring mistakes.
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necronarcosis
Eggz Enterprises Imajiaca
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:58:00 -
[763]
Originally by: Verys This is truly an hilarious ending towards a total f**k-up.
The people who build stuff out of it for cheap go scott free, outpost for 3 billion no problems.
The people who reprocessed and sold the components got tons of money, nothing here.
The people who bought the materials and stocked them to sell on later/build on later, got so screwed that I could just believe billions upon billions will have been lost.
Two out of three parties profited and didn't get off without any problems, congratulations CCP on handling this so well.
im guessing you blinked last, funny how its only the people who gambled and lost that are whining, heres a hint dont gamble what you cant afford to lose. but still lmfao... eh? |
Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.06.02 15:00:00 -
[764]
Still you do not get what the actual problem was. It's not players reaping billions of ISK from other players, it's PI being unprofitable. If they managed to fix it (or will fix it completely in the future), that's good. If players lost some billion ISK, that's not a problem for CCP or anyone not involved. And i doubt there were many that had 1000+ P4 Items that didn't read this thread and knew that something was about to happen. If they manage to delete the Stuff that's in production already then it will just be a big ISK sink and some ISK redistribution, nothing that will break the game.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 15:05:00 -
[765]
Originally by: Amida Ta So to sum it up:
- Everybody who didn't give a frak about this being an exploit or not and starting right away the first day is very well off
- Everybody who didn't give a frak about what CCP said and ignored their warning is very well off
- Everybody who didn't know about this at all and bought the components off the market is screwed
- Everybody who listened to CCP and stopped producing once CCP warned in this thread doing
anything more is ROYALLY screwed.
SO long story short: NEVER EVER DO WHAT CCP SAYS OR ADVISES! Do the direct opposite!
Minor fix'd, BSG'd and /approved
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Verys
Burning Technologies Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.06.02 15:11:00 -
[766]
Originally by: necronarcosis
im guessing you blinked last, funny how its only the people who gambled and lost that are whining, heres a hint dont gamble what you cant afford to lose. but still lmfao...
Nope actually made a fair amount of isk out of this one, however the way CCP handeled it screws over one party so much that it makes me scratch my head to try and realize if all this really just happened.
Add drone repair bays to carriers |
Legs Mackenzie
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Posted - 2010.06.02 15:22:00 -
[767]
Hilarious.
I only wish I'd gone all in.
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Nuadi
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Posted - 2010.06.02 15:42:00 -
[768]
If P4 items on the market are now broken, I have to ask: Have they the capability to trace where the "broken" item IDs originated from?
If so, then they have the source ID, which can then be linked to all of the reprocessed IDs, which can then be linked to jobs, items created, anchored, and subsequently destroyed.
Either that, or they ban, even temporarily, everyone that reprocessed a source ID.
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.06.02 15:46:00 -
[769]
Edited by: Steve Celeste on 02/06/2010 15:46:02 I would laugh so hard if they forget to update the regular P4 output from planetary interaction, and planeteers only get broken stuff from their planets.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.02 15:59:00 -
[770]
Originally by: Steve Celeste Edited by: Steve Celeste on 02/06/2010 15:46:02 I would laugh so hard if they forget to update the regular P4 output from planetary interaction, and planeteers only get broken stuff from their planets.
They already updated the ones on sis, so no laugh for that, sorry. --------
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.06.02 16:02:00 -
[771]
Originally by: Nuadi Either that, or they ban, even temporarily, everyone that reprocessed a source ID.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 16:08:00 -
[772]
Originally by: Nuadi If P4 items on the market are now broken, I have to ask: Have they the capability to trace where the "broken" item IDs originated from? If so, then they have the source ID, which can then be linked to all of the reprocessed IDs, which can then be linked to jobs, items created, anchored, and subsequently destroyed.
Capability, most likely, almost certainly yes. Willingness, DOUBTFUL. Extremely doubtful.
Quote: Either that, or they ban, even temporarily, everyone that reprocessed a source ID.
"You must be new here..." Since it was deemed NOT an exploit, it makes absolutely zero sense to ban anybody.
Originally by: Steve Celeste I would laugh so hard if they forget to update the regular P4 output from planetary interaction, and planeteers only get broken stuff from their planets.
Looks like they updated them all properly already (look at "production info" tab in the showinfos).
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 16:12:00 -
[773]
Originally by: Verys
Originally by: Pennwisedom
See, let me explain this to you:
1.) That was smart 2.) That was also smart, they knew they had to get rid of it 3.) Those people were dumb.
Now you understand the difference between smart and dumb.
Now let me explain this to you:
I find the way they handled this hilarious people who quickly got rid of got huge profits (groups 1 and 2 for you) yet escaped ccp's wrath. Then they didn't call it an exploit yet made a ninja-edit which didn't even appear in the patch notes punishing the third party in this process.
This comes down to not punishing the thieves who stole a car and sold it on but instead impounding said car and never giving it back and never ever arresting the thieves even if they had proof.
Truth be told I had my hands in the first and second groups of these people and since it's not an exploit...
It was public knowledge that CCs and thus planet goods would not become available until the 8th.
Now, to use your terrible analogy. If you buy a car that was stolen, even without knowing it was stolen, when found, the cops will take it back to the rightful owner, you don't get to keep it. Lets say you paid cash, if that cash was already used to buy things, there is no way of knowing what, so you're out of of luck.
So to sum up, see point 3. People buying stuff that was publically known to not be available yet, and then did not do something with it, are dumb.
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Nuadi
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Posted - 2010.06.02 16:18:00 -
[774]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Nuadi If P4 items on the market are now broken, I have to ask: Have they the capability to trace where the "broken" item IDs originated from? If so, then they have the source ID, which can then be linked to all of the reprocessed IDs, which can then be linked to jobs, items created, anchored, and subsequently destroyed.
Capability, most likely, almost certainly yes. Willingness, DOUBTFUL. Extremely doubtful.
Okay. I was curious about capability.
Willingness? Well, they were willing to break P4 item IDs. How far they go down the trail will be interesting.
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Nuadi Either that, or they ban, even temporarily, everyone that reprocessed a source ID.
"You must be new here..." Since it was deemed NOT an exploit, it makes absolutely zero sense to ban anybody.
Ah, my mistake. Forgot about that.
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scoutsacoutanus
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Posted - 2010.06.02 16:29:00 -
[775]
This is pretty ridiculous. Why not cancel job? Of course most richest people in this game are the same one who will profit from this and other incidents (T20 etc). Why should people not use an H-Bot/Roid Ripper if you just let others get away with make this crazy isk through "exploit"??
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Verys
Burning Technologies Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.06.02 16:29:00 -
[776]
Originally by: Pennwisedom
It was public knowledge that CCs and thus planet goods would not become available until the 8th.
Now, to use your terrible analogy. If you buy a car that was stolen, even without knowing it was stolen, when found, the cops will take it back to the rightful owner, you don't get to keep it. Lets say you paid cash, if that cash was already used to buy things, there is no way of knowing what, so you're out of of luck.
So to sum up, see point 3. People buying stuff that was publically known to not be available yet, and then did not do something with it, are dumb.
Half-reading analogy doesn't work either, I am aware of the fact that it's brought back to the rightful owner and the purchaser is out of luck however the criminal will be tracked down and arrested.
In this case the criminal would get off without any punishment because it isn't labelled an exploit yet the goods are taken and given back to the original owner.
I am not defending the people of the scenario in no 3. However I am surprised that no effort is being made to track down the profiteers and/or cancel all pos/PI product related jobs.
Add drone repair bays to carriers |
Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2010.06.02 17:17:00 -
[777]
I think Akita T is need a good bannering like out old friend Mr Kugu.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.02 17:23:00 -
[778]
Instead of temporarily banning everyone involved in some way with this incident, they could just turn off the server for a week. --------
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2010.06.02 17:27:00 -
[779]
Originally by: Abrazzar Instead of temporarily banning everyone involved in some way with this incident, they could just turn off the server for a week.
Why stop at a week - i could do with a fortnight off , lets make it 2 weeks
SKUNK (o)
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Crest Cutty
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Posted - 2010.06.02 17:30:00 -
[780]
I hope something equally draconian is being done to all the bears making billions from the search 2/2 feature?bug?exploit...
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 17:34:00 -
[781]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat I think Akita T is need a good bannering like out old friend Mr Kugu.
<sarcasm warning> Aaaaah, yes, because I somehow obtained some secret info by breaking some local laws or breaking the EULA, or I said anything that wasn't already said first by somebody else in here, or I kept saying it after somebody from CCP warned me not to ? Oh, or do you mean I talked about how to exploit stuff ? Well, that would be against the EULA... if it would have been deemed an exploit, which it wasn't, by the way. Anyway, nice try
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.06.02 17:46:00 -
[782]
whole thing is ridiculous really
t4 markets are still going to be screwed, especially once builds start coming out in force in 20-30days. everyone will wonder why you can sell a POS gun for half the cost to build it
bandaid fixes, best fixes _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Bodega Cat
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Posted - 2010.06.02 17:51:00 -
[783]
People are not keeping in mind that MOST of us chose to stand back and watch. Didn't want to take the risks because we either rather stand back and watch impartial, didn't think it was right, or didn't want to risk losing money should CCP fix it right.
The ones that gambled and decided to go at it made money. The ignorant, foolish, and naive lost it but most are not effected cause we played it safe. How is this different than how this game, or any market works exactly? The discussion that took place in this thread concluded early on that they waited to long to fix it right, so surely the outcome would be a matter of winners and losers (just mattered what combinations of fixes they would try for that would determine which piece of the pie would end up on which end of the coin).
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BlondieBC
Minmatar Galactic Exploration and Missions
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Posted - 2010.06.02 17:55:00 -
[784]
Originally by: Verys
Now let me explain this to you:
This comes down to not punishing the thieves who stole a car and sold it on but instead impounding said car and never giving it back and never ever arresting the thieves even if they had proof.
Truth be told I had my hands in the first and second groups of these people and since it's not an exploit...
In RL, the cops will seize stolen goods you own, even if they can't find the original thief.
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Kephael
Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P
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Posted - 2010.06.02 18:03:00 -
[785]
Edited by: Kephael on 02/06/2010 18:04:28 Edited by: Kephael on 02/06/2010 18:03:54
Originally by: BlondieBC
Originally by: Verys
Now let me explain this to you:
This comes down to not punishing the thieves who stole a car and sold it on but instead impounding said car and never giving it back and never ever arresting the thieves even if they had proof.
Truth be told I had my hands in the first and second groups of these people and since it's not an exploit...
In RL, the cops will seize stolen goods you own, even if they can't find the original thief.
This is CCP being stupid and having npcs selling things. Nothing is stolen. Meanwhile outposts and towers are still in production.
__________________________________________
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Jack Dant
Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
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Posted - 2010.06.02 18:18:00 -
[786]
Originally by: BlondieBC In RL, the cops will seize stolen goods you own, even if they can't find the original thief.
In RL, stolen goods you purchased in good faith belong to you, and the original owner needs to pay you if he wants it back.
(PS. Both of these are true in different countries. Analogies to RL law get complicated fast).
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 18:22:00 -
[787]
Edited by: Amida Ta on 02/06/2010 18:22:02
Originally by: Bodega Cat The ones that gambled and decided to go at it made money. The ignorant, foolish, and naive lost it but most are not effected cause we played it safe. How is this different than how this game, or any market works exactly?
It's different because CCP sets the market. They aren't part of it. And CCPs statements were wrong.
It's as if they would announce that they are going to delete all T2 BPOs next week. And when the week is over they don't delete them but instead make all existing ones twice as effective. _________________________ EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.02 18:38:00 -
[788]
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing All jobs are still active, well i am glad my ratting station plans have gone un-scuppered.
Welcome to the New World Outpost Order. The entire nullsec sov mechanic just got turned on its ear with this one and can't wait to see what comes from it. If ccp ever fix the lag that is..
Originally by: Akita T This is better than a rollback, tears-wise
The only tears I'm seeing are justified 100% by their stupidity in ignoring common patch day sense and holding on to the materials instead of dumping them on someone else or stuffing them in the oven to build something. No, in the case of this little bit of amusement I would say that many many more people are doing just fine instead of left holding a bunch of broken parts. As far as the moaning over the future profitibility of pos and outpost contruction welp I guess its a good thing that there is so much more useful stuff to make with pi than those two commodities. Sorry if a statistically insignificant portion of the playerbase gets the shaft on that one but its hard to sympathise when they are all already filthy rich.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Rejka
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Posted - 2010.06.02 18:48:00 -
[789]
Originally by: Bodega Cat People are not keeping in mind that MOST of us chose to stand back and watch. Didn't want to take the risks because we either rather stand back and watch impartial, didn't think it was right, or didn't want to risk losing money should CCP fix it right.
The ones that gambled and decided to go at it made money. The ignorant, foolish, and naive lost it but most are not effected cause we played it safe. How is this different than how this game, or any market works exactly? The discussion that took place in this thread concluded early on that they waited to long to fix it right, so surely the outcome would be a matter of winners and losers (just mattered what combinations of fixes they would try for that would determine which piece of the pie would end up on which end of the coin).
I have to quote this guy and say that CCP did a great job. They did the best that they could
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chevelle57
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Posted - 2010.06.02 19:34:00 -
[790]
Whether you took place in this ômarket opportunityö on not you have to look at the bigger picture of what CCPÆs decision will entail in the future.
If CCP didnÆt want you to be able to reprocess Pos mods they would have kept the reprocessing values prior to Tyranis IE. A few iso or nox for each mod. Since the values were changed it can be inferred that reprocessing pos mods worked as intended.
Next is the value of NPC POS mods. CCP sets the values, we as players can only undercut them. There is no way for us to manipulate NPC orders in any meaningful way.
So if there was a differential of price v. reprocessed value it is one that CCP put into the game. If players use this price differential to generate a profit, good for them for doing their homework.
There is one main issue with CCP deciding to Nerf all of the ôill-gotten good.ö And that is the reasoning behind the decision. As per CCP Chronotis ôFor those of you looking forward to Planetary Interaction on June 8th, do not worry as these issues will be cleaned up and appropriate measures will be taken to ensure there will be a viable market for you.ö
In other words he is saying that CCP has decided the price point that all PI items should be at vs. allowing the market to find the price by its self. They felt that with the amount of good received via reprocessing was going to lower the price under what they felt was an acceptable level.
My response to that is since when have they felt the need to micro manage the price of items on the market. The precedence that this sets is that next time a dev looks at the market and decides cap ships are to cheap are they going to turn all cap BPOÆs into 5 run copies to increase the production cost?
CCP you stepped across a line with this decision and have decline to make any type of public statement other then a few short responses buried in a 700+ post thread. The only reason I can think of for this is the 3 **** throwing monkeys that you have managing your devs all managed to get pink eye at the same time and can't make it in to the office.
Well when you feel like it is time to stop the poop play and start answering questions IÆll be eagerly awaiting you response
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.02 19:43:00 -
[791]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 02/06/2010 19:47:07
Originally by: Rejka
Originally by: Bodega Cat People are not keeping in mind that MOST of us chose to stand back and watch. Didn't want to take the risks because we either rather stand back and watch impartial, didn't think it was right, or didn't want to risk losing money should CCP fix it right.
The ones that gambled and decided to go at it made money. The ignorant, foolish, and naive lost it but most are not effected cause we played it safe. How is this different than how this game, or any market works exactly? The discussion that took place in this thread concluded early on that they waited to long to fix it right, so surely the outcome would be a matter of winners and losers (just mattered what combinations of fixes they would try for that would determine which piece of the pie would end up on which end of the coin).
I have to quote this guy and say that CCP did a great job. They did the best that they could
Hahahahaha, i dont know if this is a troll but i will bite. They knew of this hours after it was discovered yet waited a whole week to sort it out, they handled it in the worst possible way they could of and the damage will last for months with the market and the damage to attackers chances of doing anything in null sec for eternity! If you have a station system, nothing short of a 2:1 blob-out or sons of tangra corps(and corp) giving away the stations from bribes.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 20:09:00 -
[792]
Edited by: Akita T on 02/06/2010 20:10:54
Originally by: Rejka I have to quote this guy and say that CCP did a great job. They did the best that they could
No, they did not. Not in the same zipcode as the best they could. Not even freaking close.
One of two scenarios would have prevented any of this from happening at all : either adjust NPC sell order prices to be in line with new manufacturing cost OR deny reprocessing from the get-go.
They could have known about it within hours of the expansion hitting, or let's give them the benefit of doubt and call it "the very next morning". One would expect an emergency meeting, or an emergency cluster shutdown, or both, but nothing.
We get a response (that now, retroactively, looks pretty much like it was a partial bluff) later the next afternoon, with no actions taken. No shutdown, no actions, no nothing, yet again. By this time, THEY WERE FULLY AWARE OF THE PROBLEM. It takes another full day before NPC sell orders get cut INSTEAD OF ALTERING THE NPC SALES PRICES TO BE IN LINE WITH MANUFACTURE NEEDS.
It takes ANOTHER FOUR DAYS before P4s get removed and reprocessing disabled... AND NPC ORDERS GET BACK UP AT THE SAME OLD PRICE, SO EVERYBODY CAN STOCK UP ON CHEAP POS MODS THAT WILL BE EXPENSIVE TO MANUFACTURE LATER.
Poor planning, disastrously slow responses, inappropriate responses. [sarcasm]Oh, yes, they sure did the best they could.[/sarcasm] Moron.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.02 20:13:00 -
[793]
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing Hahahahaha, i dont know if this is a troll but i will bite. They knew of this hours after it was discovered yet waited a whole week to sort it out, they handled it in the worst possible way they could of and the damage will last for months with the market and the damage to attackers chances of doing anything in null sec for eternity! If you have a station system, nothing short of a 2:1 blob-out or sons of tangra corps(and corp) giving away the stations from bribes.
And yet.. Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing I dunno about you but i am enjoying the 50 or so eggs that are currently being made thanks to this. EVE always needed more outposts.
Face it guys, nullsec is now a going to be a fortress and the days of the huge blob alliances steamrolling anyone daring to try and use any of the wasted territory their afk empires controlled are loooooong gone.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Pennwisedom
Gallente Sublime.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:43:00 -
[794]
Originally by: Jack Dant
Originally by: BlondieBC In RL, the cops will seize stolen goods you own, even if they can't find the original thief.
In RL, stolen goods you purchased in good faith belong to you, and the original owner needs to pay you if he wants it back.
(PS. Both of these are true in different countries. Analogies to RL law get complicated fast).
I just want to talk about cars. In most cases a stolen car doesn't have the title with it. So assuming the original owner has the title, they just produce it and the cops will give it back. Good like trying to fight for ownership of a car if you don't have a title or own a forged one. Now, in most cases it's a lot more complex than that. But if anyone really cares they can go to law school or something.
I'll just repeat what I said before, the people who held on to this stuff were dumb.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:44:00 -
[795]
Edited by: Akita T on 02/06/2010 21:47:24
Originally by: chevelle57 Next is the value of NPC POS mods. CCP sets the values, we as players can only undercut them. There is no way for us to manipulate NPC orders in any meaningful way. So if there was a differential of price v. reprocessed value it is one that CCP put into the game. If players use this price differential to generate a profit, good for them for doing their homework.
There's a hidden assumption here, namely that CCP didn't simply screw up with the NPC prices, wanting to do a rebalance of end-level prices for POS modules (because, let's face it, the new "values" make a lot more sense), but somehow utterly ignoring the fact that NPCs still sell them. Of course, the second screw-up is that they STILL haven't fixed the NPC prices, when they brought them back.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:45:00 -
[796]
Originally by: Zeba Welcome to the New World Outpost Order. The entire nullsec sov mechanic just got turned on its ear with this one and can't wait to see what comes from it. If ccp ever fix the lag that is..
Really? care to elaborate on that?
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:46:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Akita T Of course, the second screw-up is that they STILL haven't fixed the NPC prices, when they brought them back.
That would be ccp flipping you the bird Akita.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:49:00 -
[798]
Originally by: Pennwisedom
Originally by: Jack Dant
Originally by: BlondieBC In RL, the cops will seize stolen goods you own, even if they can't find the original thief.
In RL, stolen goods you purchased in good faith belong to you, and the original owner needs to pay you if he wants it back. (PS. Both of these are true in different countries. Analogies to RL law get complicated fast).
I just want to talk about cars. In most cases a stolen car doesn't have the title with it. So assuming the original owner has the title, they just produce it and the cops will give it back. Good like trying to fight for ownership of a car if you don't have a title or own a forged one. Now, in most cases it's a lot more complex than that. But if anyone really cares they can go to law school or something. I'll just repeat what I said before, the people who held on to this stuff were dumb.
Except that the analogy is flawed. It's not a stolen car, it's a car you won by gambling with the owner, when gambling was allowed a week ago. Today, a law was passed saying gambling is no longer allowed, so they're retroactively taking away the car you honestly won gambling a week ago. That's a far more accurate analogy.
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Akita T Of course, the second screw-up is that they STILL haven't fixed the NPC prices, when they brought them back.
That would be ccp flipping you the bird Akita.
Can I flip them the Pterodactyl ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:52:00 -
[799]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Akita T Of course, the second screw-up is that they STILL haven't fixed the NPC prices, when they brought them back.
That would be ccp flipping you the bird Akita.
Can I flip them the Pterodactyl ?
When have you ever stopped? D-=
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:56:00 -
[800]
Originally by: Zeba When have you ever stopped? D-=
While sleeping, eating, performing other non-reflex bodily functions and most of activities starting with the letter f or g But you could say that's more of a "paused" rather than "stopped"
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:57:00 -
[801]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Zeba When have you ever stopped? D-=
While sleeping, eating, performing other non-reflex bodily functions and most of activities starting with the letter f or g But you could say that's more of a "paused" rather than "stopped"
07
Carry on.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.06.02 22:16:00 -
[802]
Originally by: Zeba If you don't see the ramifications of what an outpost in nearly every nullsec system means then I'm not sure it can be explaned in a post. Evemail one of your alliance heads and I'm sure he will fill you in.
You're not going to see one in every system and even if you did it wouldn't change much warfare wise anyway other than making it a bigger grind but it still doesn't come close to the old POS grind and people still did that one. How much sov warfare have you done in Dominion? Personally I've done plenty
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.02 23:09:00 -
[803]
Shrug, whatever, I have 126,000 units of p4 items left and broken now, yet I seem to be ~33bil isk richer. So, hmmm, it wasn't the 100bil I was hoping for, but 33bil isnt bad.
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Agallis Zinthros
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.02 23:12:00 -
[804]
Originally by: raukosen Edited by: raukosen on 02/06/2010 22:19:14 You're not going to see one in every system and even if you did it wouldn't change much warfare wise anyway
The sheer wrongness of this made me grimace and cringe. It would spread the population out more and destroy roams and targeted raids. I can picture it now, "Oh hey, neuts/reds, EVERYBODY DOCK." Station games ... everywhere. Hideous. It's not piracy, its surprise PVP. |
Circumstantial Evidence
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Posted - 2010.06.02 23:20:00 -
[805]
Are the number-crunchers here sure players won't end up making starbase structures for less than current NPC prices? Players can't make large towers very fast on their own, as intended, but everyone who cares to - will be plopping down extractors and creating a galaxy-wide inventory of planet goo. Let the NPC structures and prices stand, as a challenge to players.
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.02 23:23:00 -
[806]
Edited by: TheLordofAllandNothing on 02/06/2010 23:25:44
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing Hahahahaha, i dont know if this is a troll but i will bite. They knew of this hours after it was discovered yet waited a whole week to sort it out, they handled it in the worst possible way they could of and the damage will last for months with the market and the damage to attackers chances of doing anything in null sec for eternity! If you have a station system, nothing short of a 2:1 blob-out or sons of tangra corps(and corp) giving away the stations from bribes.
And yet.. Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing I dunno about you but i am enjoying the 50 or so eggs that are currently being made thanks to this. EVE always needed more outposts.
Face it guys, nullsec is now a going to be a fortress and the days of the huge blob alliances steamrolling anyone daring to try and use any of the wasted territory their afk empires controlled are loooooong gone.
Well i currently play the guy in the fort so more outposts = woot for me.
Quote: You're not going to see one in every system and even if you did it wouldn't change much warfare wise anyway other than making it a bigger grind but it still doesn't come close to the old POS grind and people still did that one. How much sov warfare have you done in Dominion? Personally I've done plenty
Didn't you say some **** about Dominion's sov mechanics having had a huge impact and referred to the sov map? You're just talking out of your ass fella
Spamming pos's in a system was by far a better grind for taking over a system than the dominion mechanics, at least with the pos's the defender had to constantly be on the ball and going at it 100% . Atm the attackers can win all week, the defenders rally on one day and everyones at square one again, and no human opponent will keep up this grind as this is a game.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2010.06.02 23:24:00 -
[807]
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing
Well i currently play the guy in the fort so more outposts = woot for me.
how many did you guys get?
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Unity Love
Caldari Dissonance Corp
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Posted - 2010.06.02 23:27:00 -
[808]
Originally by: Akita T
It's not a stolen car, it's a car you won by gambling with the owner, when gambling was allowed a week ago. Today, a law was passed saying gambling is no longer allowed, so they're retroactively taking away the car you honestly won gambling a week ago. That's a far more accurate analogy.
Except that analogy is flawed.
Basically you gambled the car and then everyone learnt how to fly and the car was worthless.
And then dinosaurs ate the car.
Or something like that.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.03 01:01:00 -
[809]
Originally by: Unity Love Basically you gambled the car and then everyone learnt how to fly and the car was worthless. And then dinosaurs ate the car. Or something like that.
That does sound oddly familiar
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.03 01:09:00 -
[810]
I do find it odd though, that CCP has gone into peoples hanger and changed items to junk, on something that they said was not an exploit. It does make you wonder when they will retroactively change stuff again in the future, if they ever think they have made a mistake.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2010.06.03 03:14:00 -
[811]
Originally by: General Bezelbub I do find it odd though, that CCP has gone into peoples hanger and changed items to junk, on something that they said was not an exploit. It does make you wonder when they will retroactively change stuff again in the future, if they ever think they have made a mistake.
if they didn't PI was dead, costing CCP large amounts of real money, as in cash not 'oh dear my fairness'
there was never any doubt whatsoever stockpiles would be nerfed in some way
you had to be mentally crippled in some way to hold onto raws the only question was if they'd go father and the smart money was, of course, on "no"
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Mei tais
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Posted - 2010.06.03 03:37:00 -
[812]
I bet when those Outposts come out the oven, they gonna be "Broken" aka "The Egg's cracked".
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.03 03:56:00 -
[813]
Meh I kind of wish I had sc****d one or two now just to get the bits
now thoes bits would be broken
and a year from now I bet I could sell them off slowly for a bundle to colectors who just have to have one of everything thats in the games item database!
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.03 04:25:00 -
[814]
Originally by: Steve Thomas and a year from now I bet I could sell them off slowly for a bundle to colectors who just have to have one of everything thats in the games item database!
Put some buy orders up at 30k+ a piece ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Nilania Telshua
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Posted - 2010.06.03 06:04:00 -
[815]
Edited by: Nilania Telshua on 03/06/2010 06:05:54 It seems to be something wrong with the stars... I had a look at the Age of Conan Forums and FunnyCom also managed to release an expansion prebugged so that a good number of people got a head headstart worth several weeks or even month of training...
Now contrary to FunnyCom, CCP, actually a) did something at all about the P.I. debacle and b) Eves Economy is likely healthy enough to ride this out during the course of a few month.
What really ticks me off a bit is the tendency of people these days to rationalize clearly unkosher activities that provide them with an advantage by all means possible.
P.S.: I am still hopeing for Omlette when the Eggs get delivered. With some luck there arnt to many...
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.03 06:38:00 -
[816]
Originally by: raukosen
Originally by: Zeba If you don't see the ramifications of what an outpost in nearly every nullsec system means then I'm not sure it can be explaned in a post. Evemail one of your alliance heads and I'm sure he will fill you in.
You're not going to see one in every system and even if you did it wouldn't change much warfare wise anyway other than making it a bigger grind but it still doesn't come close to the old POS grind and people still did that one.
lol. Seriously. lol.
Originally by: raukosen How much sov warfare have you done in Dominion? Personally I've done plenty
Your experience must have been fighting as one of the cannon fodder members then who just logs on and does what the fc tells him to do with no thoughts about what it is you are trying to accomplish and why. Thats ok though as every alliance needs plenty of brainless followers with cap ships.
Originally by: raukosen Didn't you say some **** about Dominion's sov mechanics having had a huge impact and referred to the sov map? You're just talking out of your ass fella
Actually the new sov changes have had very little to do with the current map and all the smaller alliances staking a claim and getting to the point they can bring the jammers online. You can thank the ungodly lag for that little bit of fortune otherwise all the old guard alliances would have hotdropped them back to empire long ago.
Originally by: Mei tais I bet when those Outposts come out the oven, they gonna be "Broken" aka "The Egg's cracked".
That would be the ultimate lulz of the whole ordeal to be sure if thats what ends up happening. But somehow I don't think its gonna happen.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.03 08:42:00 -
[817]
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall, All the King's horses and all the King's men, Couldn't put Humpty together again.
--------
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.06.03 09:53:00 -
[818]
Zeba, you don't win arguments just by saying that the other person is wrong or just 'lol'-ing and that's unfortunately all you do.
Lets revisit this in 3 months and see how ****ing wrong you are about everything (or anything) getting turned out its ear, eh?
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.03 10:19:00 -
[819]
Actually she was right, outposts have a massive effect on sov warfare. Seriously, try attacking a heavily defended outpost system(h-w for instance) and then multiply that by the amount of station systems per region. Yeah the grind is just spirit crushing to the attackers. Hence why the southern coalition's participation dropped like a stone after failing in h-w(and losing a titan and 5 supercarriers).
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.03 10:29:00 -
[820]
Originally by: raukosen Zeba, you don't win arguments just by saying that the other person is wrong or just 'lol'-ing and that's unfortunately all you do.
Lets revisit this in 3 months and see how ****ing wrong you are about everything (or anything) getting turned out its ear, eh?
Win? I didn't realise we were having a competition or that there was even an argument. Arguments tend to have two sides discussing an issue and so far all you have done is toss out some insults because I won't hold your hand and explain something that you should already know. Now here is a definite prediction. If in three months the lag situation is still around then you will 'win' your self professed 'argument' because noone could fight anyways and so were never able to actually test the sov mechanics in a meaningful way. Tbh the only real day to day use of the new sov mechanics so far has been to give cap pilots something to do as they rat anoms in their carriers. Hell PL is so bored they hotdropped an event just to lag out the system for the lulz.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.06.03 10:57:00 -
[821]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: raukosen Zeba, you don't win arguments just by saying that the other person is wrong or just 'lol'-ing and that's unfortunately all you do.
Lets revisit this in 3 months and see how ****ing wrong you are about everything (or anything) getting turned out its ear, eh?
Win? I didn't realise we were having a competition or that there was even an argument. Arguments tend to have two sides discussing an issue and so far all you have done is toss out some insults because I won't hold your hand and explain something that you should already know. Now here is a definite prediction. If in three months the lag situation is still around then you will 'win' your self professed 'argument' because noone could fight anyways and so were never able to actually test the sov mechanics in a meaningful way. Tbh the only real day to day use of the new sov mechanics so far has been to give cap pilots something to do as they rat anoms in their carriers. Hell PL is so bored they hotdropped an event just to lag out the system for the lulz.
Worse than that - pl faked the event's existence they were so bored.
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Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention Rough Necks
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Posted - 2010.06.03 11:03:00 -
[822]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Mei tais I bet when those Outposts come out the oven, they gonna be "Broken" aka "The Egg's cracked".
That would be the ultimate lulz of the whole ordeal to be sure if thats what ends up happening. But somehow I don't think its gonna happen.
It can be confirmed that it won't happen from the game data. If those manufacturing jobs are allowed to complete they will definitely lay healthy eggs. --
Originally by: Zeke Mobius I swear the catholic church was faster at admitting the earth was round than CCP at fixing stuff.
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raukosen
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Posted - 2010.06.03 12:38:00 -
[823]
You're tossing out hyperbole statements and then refuse to back them up when called on it. Is your e-ego too big to admit it?
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Kephael
Caldari SERENDIPITY INC R-I-P
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Posted - 2010.06.03 16:51:00 -
[824]
Originally by: Mei tais I bet when those Outposts come out the oven, they gonna be "Broken" aka "The Egg's cracked".
Check the market, there is no broken outpost item. __________________________________________
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scoutsacoutanus
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Posted - 2010.06.03 18:27:00 -
[825]
I had this 5 large caldari outpost finish build today. :( it deliver and instead of tower I get a starcakes ?>!! :(
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.03 19:11:00 -
[826]
Originally by: scoutsacoutanus I had this 5 large caldari outpost finish build today. :( it deliver and instead of tower I get a starcakes ?>!! :(
lol...can someone else confirm this? :))))
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.03 19:23:00 -
[827]
Originally by: raukosen You're tossing out hyperbole statements and then refuse to back them up when called on it. Is your e-ego too big to admit it?
lol. Seriously. lol.
There have already been a couple of answers to your question that sketch the first faint outline of whats to come if all those eggs hatch unbroken. So since you keep focusing on me I'll assume you are just another simple flame alt of some main I have made a fool of ingame or on the forums. Sorry if you simply are not smart enough to figure it out on your own but its ok as I'm sure your ceo still appreciates a warm body on cap ship ops since everything is spelled out for you leaving you with sufficient mental capcity to process the correct time to f1 f2 f3..
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2010.06.03 20:21:00 -
[828]
Originally by: Catari Taga It can be confirmed that it won't happen from the game data. If those manufacturing jobs are allowed to complete they will definitely lay healthy eggs.
I had mentioned to corp mates that they would go all the way to the end and then:
<Notify> An unfortunate assembly line accident has occurred! Your item is undeliverable and has been destroyed.
Heavens would people be angry...
__________
Multispectacular. |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.03 20:26:00 -
[829]
- Create Broken Egg item - Change all current egg BPs to produce Broken Egg - Wait until all are delivered - Change BPs back to produce normal eggs - Read forums and laugh
--------
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.04 01:35:00 -
[830]
I seriously doubt there will be any more changes this month. I mean, other than, you know, the already planned ones, namely seeding the CCs on the 8th and pulling the NPC sell orders of POS/fuel/outpost/sov stuff out some time later (date uncertain).
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.06.04 02:08:00 -
[831]
Yeah, CCP doesn't have the time to spend 3 minutes verifying that asfkohasdfka, ashfaofh, and asfharyhaweuifh in Navy Ravens working 23/7 are or are not macros, but sure, I bet they're going to dig through every manufacturing job going on right now, find all the outposts, then dig through those characters linked to that outpost to see where the money/resources came from. That makes perfect sense.
I think a lot of people here still believe in the tooth fairy.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.04 04:29:00 -
[832]
Originally by: Abrazzar - Create Broken Egg item - Change all current egg BPs to produce Broken Egg - Wait until all are delivered - Change BPs back to produce normal eggs - Read forums and laugh
lawl stupid pubbie
anyone who got outposts out of this would welcome this change
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.04 04:30:00 -
[833]
seriously anyone who can't even figure out what's going on with the outposts in production should probably not suggests what should be done to fix them
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Castaspella
Hyperdynaglide Associates
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:05:00 -
[834]
Edited by: Castaspella on 04/06/2010 05:16:24 With 1B invested, I'm pretty disappointed I didn't profit like I had hoped (some 6-10 billion with a long term hold) - roughly breaking even due to having the means to turn around my I'll gotten gains. Honestly since I saw the gold rush happening in front of my eyes, and knew it was going to make PI worthless,I had to do something (especially since it had been confirmed as a nonexploit) so that I could ride it out and eventually work towards being a significant member of the community. The over-low buyback, a d only 25 at a time amirite, is a slap in the face to us otherwise hard-working and faithful players.
This is surprisingly fail, magnified since these items are no longer refinable, for anyone without inside information about the next steps by the overlords that are CCP.
I am a broken player, supporting our overlords with $45 every month, and I suggest that they man-up and at least acknowledge the stealth nerf that just ruined my fast track to catch up with the more wealthy players that were in and out and made (individually) billions by turning this opportunity around quickly.
I will personally give it another month or so, knowing our new chair of the CS-ignorable-M supports disbanding of the T2 BPOs, which are the same profit boon I had hoped to achieve with this dev oversight.
CCP: Do something, or I WILL quit. Castaspella Antarian Ranger |
wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.06.04 07:30:00 -
[835]
Somehow I'm happy I decided not to build any eggs by myself. I would have needed more than 50 manufacture slots to just make in time the station parts for one egg before CCP wiped out the P4. I would hope any corp worth its salt has got a pair of eggs going on at least. Since I expected some goo wipe or devaluation, it was the right decision.
What I really regret is not seeing further. I could have got the two or three bottleneck P4 for making POS and eggs (in relation to the reprocessed modules) the first day cheaply, and sell them at 10x the last day for the "omg I have to put this in the oven" folks.
But who wants to play poker when the other guy not only plays hands but is also the bank.
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Aesynil
Caldari The Unit...
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:08:00 -
[836]
Originally by: Castaspella Edited by: Castaspella on 04/06/2010 05:16:24 With 1B invested, I'm pretty disappointed I didn't profit like I had hoped (some 6-10 billion with a long term hold) - roughly breaking even due to having the means to turn around my I'll gotten gains. Honestly since I saw the gold rush happening in front of my eyes, and knew it was going to make PI worthless,I had to do something (especially since it had been confirmed as a nonexploit) so that I could ride it out and eventually work towards being a significant member of the community. The over-low buyback, a d only 25 at a time amirite, is a slap in the face to us otherwise hard-working and faithful players.
This is surprisingly fail, magnified since these items are no longer refinable, for anyone without inside information about the next steps by the overlords that are CCP.
I am a broken player, supporting our overlords with $45 every month, and I suggest that they man-up and at least acknowledge the stealth nerf that just ruined my fast track to catch up with the more wealthy players that were in and out and made (individually) billions by turning this opportunity around quickly.
I will personally give it another month or so, knowing our new chair of the CS-ignorable-M supports disbanding of the T2 BPOs, which are the same profit boon I had hoped to achieve with this dev oversight.
CCP: Do something, or I WILL quit.
I've...never actually had to say this before...
Can I have your stuff?
The Unit pursues invention, manufacturing, mining, and research. Evemail us if you need anything related to Science and Industry. |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:10:00 -
[837]
Edited by: Serpents smile on 04/06/2010 08:10:01
Originally by: Castaspella Edited by: Castaspella on 04/06/2010 05:16:24 With 1B invested, I'm pretty disappointed I didn't profit like I had hoped (some 6-10 billion with a long term hold) - roughly breaking even due to having the means to turn around my I'll gotten gains.
You gambled, you lost. Cry me some more.
Quote: CCP: Do something, or I WILL quit.
Contract me what you have left, please.
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Arajus
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:11:00 -
[838]
Originally by: Hemp Invader
Originally by: scoutsacoutanus I had this 5 large caldari outpost finish build today. :( it deliver and instead of tower I get a starcakes ?>!! :(
lol...can someone else confirm this? :))))
Joke or truth, someone to confirm this?
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:13:00 -
[839]
Originally by: Castaspella Edited by: Castaspella on 04/06/2010 05:16:24 With 1B invested, I'm pretty disappointed I didn't profit like I had hoped (some 6-10 billion with a long term hold) - roughly breaking even due to having the means to turn around my I'll gotten gains. Honestly since I saw the gold rush happening in front of my eyes, and knew it was going to make PI worthless,I had to do something (especially since it had been confirmed as a nonexploit) so that I could ride it out and eventually work towards being a significant member of the community. The over-low buyback, a d only 25 at a time amirite, is a slap in the face to us otherwise hard-working and faithful players.
This is surprisingly fail, magnified since these items are no longer refinable, for anyone without inside information about the next steps by the overlords that are CCP.
I am a broken player, supporting our overlords with $45 every month, and I suggest that they man-up and at least acknowledge the stealth nerf that just ruined my fast track to catch up with the more wealthy players that were in and out and made (individually) billions by turning this opportunity around quickly.
I will personally give it another month or so, knowing our new chair of the CS-ignorable-M supports disbanding of the T2 BPOs, which are the same profit boon I had hoped to achieve with this dev oversight.
CCP: Do something, or I WILL quit.
it is my impression that you are doing something terribly wrong.
either way, stuffs, gimmie.
also, I'm a 6-year vet in this game, and I'll let you make an educated guess on what's the average size of my wallet. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:15:00 -
[840]
Originally by: Arajus
Originally by: Hemp Invader
Originally by: scoutsacoutanus I had this 5 large caldari outpost finish build today. :( it deliver and instead of tower I get a starcakes ?>!! :(
lol...can someone else confirm this? :))))
Joke or truth, someone to confirm this?
large caldari outpost? This Item does not exist. there are no different sized outposts, just different outpost upgrades. and why would you need 5 caldari outposts in the first place?
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.04 09:09:00 -
[841]
Originally by: Qoi
Originally by: Arajus
Originally by: Hemp Invader
Originally by: scoutsacoutanus I had this 5 large caldari outpost finish build today. :( it deliver and instead of tower I get a starcakes ?>!! :(
lol...can someone else confirm this? :))))
Joke or truth, someone to confirm this?
large caldari outpost? This Item does not exist. there are no different sized outposts, just different outpost upgrades. and why would you need 5 caldari outposts in the first place?
I think he meant large caldari towers. Anyway, the issue still stands...can anyone confirm that?
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Amida Ta
German Mining and Manufacture Corp.
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Posted - 2010.06.04 11:49:00 -
[842]
Edited by: Amida Ta on 04/06/2010 11:52:47 I just don't understand the actions by CCP. How should invalidating the leftovers of production for towers/outposts help anything with PI? The towers ARE existing now (or will in a few weeks). So the hit for PI is just about the same as it would have been just leaving the components intact.
Surely there are some small differences. But on a large scale I'm pretty sure there is no measurable impact. So they didn't help PI, but they screwed some (likely few) people and completely made a fool of themselves with the replies to this thread and their actions.
P.S. From an economic point of view I'd be REALLY interested to know how much ISK was sunk in this. Enough to get a deflation? _________________________ EveAI.Live - The EVE-Online API/class library for .Net, C# and VB.Net |
HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.04 12:12:00 -
[843]
maybe should have put the PCCs out early like this week. But anyway what is done is done Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.04 12:14:00 -
[844]
Originally by: wakalaka Somehow I'm happy I decided not to build any eggs by myself. I would have needed more than 50 manufacture slots to just make in time the station parts for one egg before CCP wiped out the P4.
wrong
man seriously can anyone here either a)do math or b)understand basic production
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Vir Doctus
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2010.06.04 12:15:00 -
[845]
Just a thought and a lot of speculation:
The P4 items are renamed to broken and thus more or less useless. But if they could be made repearable and that would include some cost/time you could come to te roughly same effect as Akita T proposed with increasing the building requirements (instead of needing more to build you would have to invest more founds). If you do the same with structures being build, you would end up with people paying basicaly the amount that is in line with what PI produced stuff would cost but in a way time delayed (time needed for building/repairs) and PI can proceed as planned (I am not building any of this items, so I do not know if they come out OK or not). But it is possible to expand on the idea and make the broken items repearable only on Planets and perhaps needing further P3 items, thus generating instant PI interest as a side product of the blunder, :). There would be an instand demand for Planet materials as people try to save their investments and repair the broken stuff.
Some small amount of people would still have made large profits, but hey life ain't fair.
The possibilites for backstories are also enormous. You can even make a plausable story to explain why suddenly these components can be build by players.
I might be wrong, but I see this as a very good solution to this situation. And best of all it is still feasable, :). |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.06.04 13:54:00 -
[846]
Edited by: Grimpak on 04/06/2010 13:54:11
Originally by: Amida Ta Edited by: Amida Ta on 04/06/2010 11:52:47 I just don't understand the actions by CCP. How should invalidating the leftovers of production for towers/outposts help anything with PI? The towers ARE existing now (or will in a few weeks). So the hit for PI is just about the same as it would have been just leaving the components intact.
not quite, since towers are destructible. as for the outposts... well, that's different.
not much of a consolation, but that's the matter of fact.
also, you don't get just towers out of PI.
hint: think about it a bit, and then come back ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
ThaMa Gebir
Gallente SUECHTLER Inc. THE-FEDERATION
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Posted - 2010.06.04 14:10:00 -
[847]
Originally by: General Bezelbub I do find it odd though, that CCP has gone into peoples hanger and changed items to junk, on something that they said was not an exploit. It does make you wonder when they will retroactively change stuff again in the future, if they ever think they have made a mistake.
They have already done so in the past.
When Rigs were new and cool and expensive there were some rigs that you could fit to ships which made the Microwarpdrives more effective (you got a higher speed bonus out of them), then CCP saw that inties were getting gigantic speeds out of them (low skilled players had around 9kms, I had over 17 ) and said they needed nerfing, now I have 2 auxiliary thrusters BPOs in my hangar and my inty suddenly only did 4.5 kms...
So they have, can and will if it is decided too much of a situation to be left alone... ----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.06.04 14:20:00 -
[848]
Originally by: Hemp Invader I think he meant large caldari towers. Anyway, the issue still stands...can anyone confirm that?
i've delivered two POS structure jobs since the wednesday patch, both came out as expected _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.04 14:56:00 -
[849]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Hemp Invader I think he meant large caldari towers. Anyway, the issue still stands...can anyone confirm that?
i've delivered two POS structure jobs since the wednesday patch, both came out as expected
Confirming that on POS structures. Neither the market nor the customers had any objections with the items I sold them. --------
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The Breadmaster
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Posted - 2010.06.04 15:08:00 -
[850]
I had hoped CCP would have been fair dealing with their mistake.
Is it not the role of any industrialist to find a market gap and close it? They created a gap and guess what happened...
What's ironic here is the fix they decided on going with. A one-step of changing a hand full of item ID# defintions. Srsly.omg.wtf.rofl.
Meanwhile towers, tower bits, and outposts continue to roll out of the cooker.
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Hemp Invader
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.04 16:29:00 -
[851]
Originally by: Chaos Incarnate
Originally by: Hemp Invader I think he meant large caldari towers. Anyway, the issue still stands...can anyone confirm that?
i've delivered two POS structure jobs since the wednesday patch, both came out as expected
Thank you.
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Mathias Black
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Posted - 2010.06.04 17:23:00 -
[852]
I'm guessing their plan is "Oh well nothing we can do about all the free outposts and towers, but we can try to salvage some of PI in the future". They probably have plans to release BP's for other things that use P4 items at some point, so they want to make sure no one can use the stockpiles from today for those future items. I think they're probably hoping they can say "Yeah P4 items are worthless now, but save them up, because we have plans to let you make AWESOME things with them Soon(TM)!" How many people decide to do PI and stockpile for some hopeful future patch remains to be seen.
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Korin DoomsDay
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Posted - 2010.06.04 18:08:00 -
[853]
I question the people like Akita T who've gone to astronomical lengths to whine about this, then start whining when they fix it? You can clearly see the answer from CCP where they said "these issues will be cleaned up..." so you had adequate warning IMO.
I would like to see CCP reimburse the people who reprocessed these items somehow so that they break even, but nothing more than that. It was never (as far as I can see) said by CCP that they would be able to make this much money from this. That was just an assumption based on player speculation. For all you know this latest action by CCP was always intended and not a last minute bandaid.
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Kieselguhr Kid
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Posted - 2010.06.04 20:23:00 -
[854]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: wakalaka Somehow I'm happy I decided not to build any eggs by myself. I would have needed more than 50 manufacture slots to just make in time the station parts for one egg before CCP wiped out the P4.
wrong
man seriously can anyone here either a)do math or b)understand basic production
no, they can't
that's why there are ~15-20 of them being built now and not 150-200
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.04 22:06:00 -
[855]
Originally by: Amida Ta P.S. From an economic point of view I'd be REALLY interested to know how much ISK was sunk in this. Enough to get a deflation?
20,000 mission runners getting 10 mil / hr for, say, 2 hours per day = 400 bn ISK per day entering the game.
The numbers are pulled out of thin air, but even with more conservative estimates there still are billions per day entering the game. I doubt there will be a deflation.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.06.04 22:10:00 -
[856]
Originally by: Merouk Baas
Originally by: Amida Ta P.S. From an economic point of view I'd be REALLY interested to know how much ISK was sunk in this. Enough to get a deflation?
20,000 mission runners getting 10 mil / hr for, say, 2 hours per day = 400 bn ISK per day entering the game.
The numbers are pulled out of thin air, but even with more conservative estimates there still are billions per day entering the game. I doubt there will be a deflation.
If you think there are 20,000 people running missions at that efficiency a day you need a wake up call. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.04 22:24:00 -
[857]
Edited by: Merouk Baas on 04/06/2010 22:26:33
10,000 at 5 mil/hr for 8 hrs = same result.
With a daily server population between 30k and 45k over 23 hrs, and the majority playing in Empire space, how many do YOU figure there are?
A few hundred bn ISK were sunk into this fiasco. It's NOT going to take years for that kind of money to enter the game. It's not even gonna take months. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.04 23:46:00 -
[858]
Edited by: Akita T on 04/06/2010 23:56:21
Originally by: Korin DoomsDay I question the people like Akita T who've gone to astronomical lengths to whine about this, then start whining when they fix it?
Not that they fixed it, but WHEN they fixed it (very late), and HOW they fixed it (not that well).
Let me put it this way : you have a broken toilet in your rental apartment, and you complain to the landlord ; the landlord takes a week to fix it, does a just barely passable job at it, and nothing else. Do you thank him for that, or do you keep complaining, only slightly differently ?
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Dawne Xi
Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions
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Posted - 2010.06.05 22:35:00 -
[859]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis on May 29th This is not the only fix, but the first fix of a few, with more to follow as we announced in the first reply here that we intend that everything be ready for when Planetary Interaction launches.
More updates will follow in the days ahead.
Anymore updates or is that it?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.06 05:19:00 -
[860]
Originally by: Dawne Xi Anymore updates or is that it?
Well, I'm betting there's going to be one very late "and now we took all NPC items out again", and then that would be "it"
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:09:00 -
[861]
___
Now I wonder just how long will it take to phase out NPC orders for PI stuff. ___
By the way, cheap Robotics FTW Incoming price crash in 5... 4... 3... oh wait, no price crash, there's NPC BUY ORDERS for those damn things too
Buy 10x Mechanical Parts at 603+ ISK/unit for ~6k ISK per batch. Buy 10x Consumer Electronics at 207+ ISK/unit for ~2k ISK per batch. Import the 30 m^3 of one batch to a planet spaceport. Process in an Advanced factory into 3x Robotics. Export the 18 m^3 of one batch. Total material and tax cost so far, ~8.2k per batch tops. Sell to NPC buy orders at little over 21k per batch.
Hooray ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:20:00 -
[862]
Originally by: Akita T ___
Now I wonder just how long will it take to phase out NPC orders for PI stuff. ___
By the way, cheap Robotics FTW Incoming price crash in 5... 4... 3... oh wait, no price crash, there's NPC BUY ORDERS for those damn things too
Buy 10x Mechanical Parts at 603+ ISK/unit for ~6k ISK per batch. Buy 10x Consumer Electronics at 207+ ISK/unit for ~2k ISK per batch. Import the 30 m^3 of one batch to a planet spaceport. Process in an Advanced factory into 3x Robotics. Export the 18 m^3 of one batch. Total material and tax cost so far, ~8.2k per batch tops. Sell to NPC buy orders at little over 21k per batch.
Hooray ?
Lets double our money ?
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:23:00 -
[863]
Edited by: iP0D on 08/06/2010 14:23:41
Originally by: Akita T ___ #@%$#&@$%$$^%^%*@%$#
You just had to post it again >.<
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:25:00 -
[864]
Originally by: iP0D You just had to post it again >.<
"again" ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Una Achura
|
Posted - 2010.06.08 14:28:00 -
[865]
Ahahahah. Oh, I love this. Think of it as an ISK-faucet to offset the sink from all those cynos.
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:40:00 -
[866]
I loved how I have guessed CCPs wrong on every action so far. Man, that is me being an idiot and giving them a shred of intelligence.
Oh and akita, CCP reacts so slowly, i doubt they will fix NPC buy orders anytime soon.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:43:00 -
[867]
Originally by: General Bezelbub I loved how I have guessed CCPs wrong on every action so far. Man, that is me being an idiot and giving them a shred of intelligence.
Oh and akita, CCP reacts so slowly, i doubt they will fix NPC buy orders anytime soon.
One starts to think they should hire an real economist to help them with these specific things.
Oh, wait.
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.08 14:50:00 -
[868]
Originally by: Akita T ___
Now I wonder just how long will it take to phase out NPC orders for PI stuff. ___
By the way, cheap Robotics FTW Incoming price crash in 5... 4... 3... oh wait, no price crash, there's NPC BUY ORDERS for those damn things too
Buy 10x Mechanical Parts at 603+ ISK/unit for ~6k ISK per batch. Buy 10x Consumer Electronics at 207+ ISK/unit for ~2k ISK per batch. Import the 30 m^3 of one batch to a planet spaceport. Process in an Advanced factory into 3x Robotics. Export the 18 m^3 of one batch. Total material and tax cost so far, ~8.2k per batch tops. Sell to NPC buy orders at little over 21k per batch.
Hooray ?
CCP did promice people who will do PI a viable market, did they not? Well, here it is... let the great robotics rush begin! \o/
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:00:00 -
[869]
running this on 5 planets would net 50m a day for a few hundred million outset
i suppose it's technically money, but you'd probably be better reacting the robotics and holding onto them until after the NPC orders are removed and selling for much greater profits _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:07:00 -
[870]
i think hold is better here as well.not selling cheap to the npc knowledge is power |
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:17:00 -
[871]
Wait, what?
npc BUY orders???
uhm, hello? |
Lady Ayeipsia
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:23:00 -
[872]
Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: Akita T ___
Now I wonder just how long will it take to phase out NPC orders for PI stuff. ___
By the way, cheap Robotics FTW Incoming price crash in 5... 4... 3... oh wait, no price crash, there's NPC BUY ORDERS for those damn things too
Buy 10x Mechanical Parts at 603+ ISK/unit for ~6k ISK per batch. Buy 10x Consumer Electronics at 207+ ISK/unit for ~2k ISK per batch. Import the 30 m^3 of one batch to a planet spaceport. Process in an Advanced factory into 3x Robotics. Export the 18 m^3 of one batch. Total material and tax cost so far, ~8.2k per batch tops. Sell to NPC buy orders at little over 21k per batch.
Hooray ?
CCP did promice people who will do PI a viable market, did they not? Well, here it is... let the great robotics rush begin! \o/
I kind of figured this is working as intended. It gives people doing PI an incentive to start up, giving them some profit up front instead of having to wait till when the NPC sell orders are gone.
Honestly, it's starting to sound like the OP is a bad Journalist. Sure, his first story was a success. He had a major press release, which really did stop all the presses. Now, the fame is gone to his head. He's trying to grasp at any news tidbit, in the hopes of making another sensational story, and is just floundering along, headed for a career at the National Enquirer or the Sun.
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Pippan
Gallente Dark Legion Society
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:32:00 -
[873]
So i have a question.
How do one loose control of your isk-making planet without letting it run out of resources or fuel? ____________________
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:49:00 -
[874]
Originally by: Akita T ___
Now I wonder just how long will it take to phase out NPC orders for PI stuff. ___
By the way, cheap Robotics FTW Incoming price crash in 5... 4... 3... oh wait, no price crash, there's NPC BUY ORDERS for those damn things too
Buy 10x Mechanical Parts at 603+ ISK/unit for ~6k ISK per batch. Buy 10x Consumer Electronics at 207+ ISK/unit for ~2k ISK per batch. Import the 30 m^3 of one batch to a planet spaceport. Process in an Advanced factory into 3x Robotics. Export the 18 m^3 of one batch. Total material and tax cost so far, ~8.2k per batch tops. Sell to NPC buy orders at little over 21k per batch.
Hooray ?
It's almost as if CCP didn't examine in detail how PI would interact with npc buy/sell orders at any stage of the PI deployment. At all. One failure after another. Tyrannis is a rolling joke.
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Di Mulle
|
Posted - 2010.06.08 16:08:00 -
[875]
Originally by: Pippan So i have a question.
How do one loose control of your isk-making planet without letting it run out of resources or fuel?
You can't run completely out of resources and no type of fuel is needed at all - so you can't lose control, unless you will delete structures yourself.
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Adunh Slavy
|
Posted - 2010.06.08 17:05:00 -
[876]
Originally by: Akita T
Now I wonder just how long will it take to phase out NPC orders for PI stuff.
NPC *buy* orders are not such a bad thing. They would keep the prices at a point where doing PI will be worth the effort. NPC sell orders on the other hand undercut player efforts.
Infinite demand is not such a bad thing in a make believe world.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.08 18:08:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
NPC *buy* orders are not such a bad thing. They would keep the prices at a point where doing PI will be worth the effort. NPC sell orders on the other hand undercut player efforts.
Infinite demand is not such a bad thing in a make believe world.
Yet another terrible economic post from a pubbie on the official forums. If you want your infinite demand, you can also have your insurance fraud battleships back, because it's the same thing. Building battleships just to self-destruct them and profit is a pretty dumb gimmick even in a make believe world. Infinite demand.
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Julian Koll
The Kollektive
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Posted - 2010.06.08 19:34:00 -
[878]
So, thats roughly 15k per 500tf factory per hour. Lets take 40 factories per Elite PCC Lets take 6 Planets
15k * 40 * 6 = 3.6m/h or 2.592m a month.
Nice isk printing machine i'd say...
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Nor'akho Matar
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Posted - 2010.06.08 19:41:00 -
[879]
Originally by: pmchem Yet another terrible economic post from a pubbie
Protip: Calling other people pubbies makes it REALLY look like you know what you talk about yourself.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.08 19:50:00 -
[880]
shut up pubbie
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.06.08 20:11:00 -
[881]
Originally by: Weaselior shut up pubbie
Says a pubbie.
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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar Gith Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.08 20:36:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Weaselior shut up pubbie
How many people have you called a pubbie today? lol Go back to counter-strike, son
~ ° ° ° ~ Non-Gameplay Enhancements! |
pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.08 20:39:00 -
[883]
we make true posts and the truth shall set us free
from pubbies
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 03:18:00 -
[884]
Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia
Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: Akita T [...]Total material and tax cost so far, ~8.2k per batch tops. Sell to NPC buy orders at little over 21k per batch.
CCP did promice people who will do PI a viable market, did they not? Well, here it is... let the great robotics rush begin! \o/
I kind of figured this is working as intended. It gives people doing PI an incentive to start up, giving them some profit up front instead of having to wait till when the NPC sell orders are gone. Honestly, it's starting to sound like the OP is a bad Journalist. Sure, his first story was a success. He had a major press release, which really did stop all the presses. Now, the fame is gone to his head. He's trying to grasp at any news tidbit, in the hopes of making another sensational story, and is just floundering along, headed for a career at the National Enquirer or the Sun.
Oh, really now ? It's not a problem you say ? Let's see...
First off, THIS PARTICULAR "REACTION" has absolutely nothing to do with how P.I. was supposed to work.
You can do it on ANY planet as long as all the NPC orders are still in place, and you don't have to have ANY kind of extractors whatsoever. You just pick whatever planet is closest to the NPC orders for minimal hauling effort. The setup you will use for this particular "thing" has next to nothing in common with what you will be doing afterwards, when the PI-P2s in question (mech.parts and cons.elec) no longer have dirt-cheap NPC sell orders, and the PI-P3 in question (robotics) no longer has NPC buy orders. When the orders drop, you will basically demolish your entire setup because you would have nothing else better to do with it, as its profitability dropped to next to nothing (not that it really matters as you would have recovered more than enough).
Second off, it's insanely profitable, so insanely profitable you would be stupid NOT to do it for as long as it's possible. One can only assume by now most people that would want to have anything to do with PI would have trained the two "main" skills to at least L4, and even somebody that hasn't considered it would find getting them both to L3 to be a very fast thing. Now, with both L4 skills, let's see what we can do. OMIGOSHHOWCUTEANDSTUFF!!! Look at them pretties, 21 factories per planet, 10 per starport cluster and one extra linked to both starports, and just on a L4 skill CC ! Might not be the best setup, but it's easier to count them this way. You can dump fill each starport with just MechP or ConsuElec (one with each) or you can distribute them almost evenly in both. Eiter way, it's doable even with 21 factories, and with 20 factories it would be piece of cake even for the most slow with enough MW/tf wiggle room. Each factory eats up 30 m^3/hour, so your 21 factories eat up a combined 15120 m^3/day. How nice that you actually have 20000 m^3 storage space in the two spaceports, so you can easily make due with ONE visit per day, not even having to restart any extractors, just import/export stuff. How cute again !
Times 5 planets, that's 100 factories (let's not say 105 even if it's doable), spewing out 300 robotics every hour, 7200 every day, 216k every month per CHARACTER... at over 4k per unit profit (let's make that a nice round 4k) by simply selling directly to NPC buy orders, or 864 mil ISK/month the very least ! In reality, it's closer to 4.25k per unit and 226.8k units per month, or 964 mil/month. You would say, "yeah, _IF_ the NPC sell orders remain that long up"... but then again, nobody stops you from stockpiling enough dirt-cheap P2 junk to LAST YOU YEARS reacting !!! Or whatever.
YEAH, I'M SURE CLOSE TO 1 BIL ISK A MONTH FOR SOMEBODY BARELY OUT OF TRIAL IS SOMETHING NOBODY WOULD BOTHER WITH !!! Ah, the not-so subtle sarcasm...
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.06.09 03:18:00 -
[885]
Originally by: pmchem we make true posts and the truth shall set us free
from pubbies
Truth is, you're an ass, now go be free
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.06.09 03:42:00 -
[886]
This is just awesome CCP _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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DasDizzy
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2010.06.09 04:01:00 -
[887]
Great stuff CCP, this is now on average, more profitable than scamming corps.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 04:06:00 -
[888]
Of course, as soon as the NPC buy orders for robotics go away, Robotics would crash into nothingness profit-wise
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Narfas Deteis
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Posted - 2010.06.09 04:58:00 -
[889]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1332998&page=1#6
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.09 04:59:00 -
[890]
Well, I suppose CCP could break all the NPC goods in a few days, to make PI what they want. It worked good for p4!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 05:07:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Narfas Deteis http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1332998&page=1#6
Oh, yeah, take another week or two to phase out orders, give everybody the time to stockpile And that's still close to half a bil ISK per person until then (2 weeks), assuming you could no longer sell robotics at a profit afterwards (i.e. price would no longer be at around or above 3k per unit, like the 7++k it is right now - in which case, plasma planets are a crapshoot anyway).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.09 05:19:00 -
[892]
what happens when everyone sells their robotics to the npc?Whos gonna supply them for fuel i need some fueeeeel yoo! knowledge is power |
ghosttr
Amarr Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.06.09 05:20:00 -
[893]
CCP dropped the ball on this not once but twice now
1-2 weeks, to devalue PI even more WTF is CCP thinking. They should give everybody till the weekend to stockpile pos fuels, and if they dont, then they dont deserve a pos. Its not like pos are still tied to sov anyways Prospecting! |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 05:31:00 -
[894]
The only marginally good news is that those specific NPC orders aren't infinite, so there's a limited amount of people that can pull it off... and competition should limit the profitability soon enough that this is public.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.09 05:38:00 -
[895]
And then next month the new irrelevant market discussion over the last .0000000005% of profits to be made will get its own threadnaught. This is like predicting the fall of the free world due to the bubble gum market bottoming out. Its only relevant if you trade in bubble gum..
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 05:47:00 -
[896]
You take that back ! The world as we know it would like, totally collapse and stuff if there was no more bubble gum for sale !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.09 05:52:00 -
[897]
Originally by: ghosttr CCP dropped the ball on this not once but twice now
thats not the only screw up there going to make with this expansion.
honestly how these morons are able to write code for this in the first place blows my mind sometimes.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Miss Moonwych
Formedian Shadows
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Posted - 2010.06.09 06:01:00 -
[898]
Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 09/06/2010 06:01:49
Originally by: Akita T The only marginally good news is that those specific NPC orders aren't infinite, so there's a limited amount of people that can pull it off... and competition should limit the profitability soon enough that this is public.
Plus the fact that it takes around 1-2 days to break even, due to the cost of the 21 processors, 2 spaceports and the (advanced) command center. Assuming they can't be used effectively for "normal" PI afterwards because (the setup) becomes somewhat useless.
I guess the question is how quickly they will phase this out.
Regards,
M.M.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.09 06:32:00 -
[899]
Edited by: Grozen on 09/06/2010 06:35:41 they said 2weeks:P so no nothing like the 1month billion stuff will happen.All that will happen is ppl won't have fuel knowledge is power |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 08:11:00 -
[900]
Originally by: Grozen they said 2weeks:P so no nothing like the 1month billion stuff will happen.
You don't have to rely on just 2 weeks of robotics output. You can still stockpile all the cheap P2s you can still buy now for the next 2 weeks or so until they delete the orders, either to directly sell at a higher price later, or to react and sell as P3s later. There's only a limited amount of each available per day, and they're scattered all over EVE, so the impact might not be too horrible overall.
Quote: All that will happen is ppl won't have fuel
Unlikely. If there's really a scarcity of units available, prices will go up quite fast, and with prices going up more of those that chose to stockpile will decide to sell, and more people will take up actual PI manufacture, starting with extraction (as opposed to, you know, just picking up stray NPC orders). The best way to kickstart PI would have been to yank out all orders and let prices skyrocket, so "proper" PI (again, the one that starts with extraction) would actually have been decently profitable at the very start, profitability going down the more adopt it.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division
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Posted - 2010.06.09 08:35:00 -
[901]
Originally by: Akita T . The best way to kickstart PI would have been to yank out all orders and let prices skyrocket, so "proper" PI (again, the one that starts with extraction) would actually have been decently profitable at the very start, profitability going down the more adopt it.
I 100% agree. Why these stupid NPC orders have remained I can only assume is because CCP feared some catastrophic bug would mean manufacture would be impossible and with no NPC orders POSs across new Eden would starve to death.
Im extracting on planets but I expect to store the product for months before its actually viable to sell it.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.06.09 08:40:00 -
[902]
Originally by: Akita T
OMIGOSHHOWCUTEANDSTUFF!!!
Thanks for the tip, although I don't have the option of doing it as large scale as you propose, I am running an 18-factory setup off an Improved CC. Should pay itself back in 2 days.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.09 08:42:00 -
[903]
Edited by: Grozen on 09/06/2010 08:43:27 Frankly i see no reason to sell robotics at npc price and i'm sure many people think the same.They should be worth atleast 10x that and even then i still wouldn't sell.Best scenario is to wait till robotics are like 60k each then it will be worth the work.
Sure some people have stockpiled for their pos but they are keeping that for their pos not for the markets.
Also the supply volume for cs and mc doesn't mean they will be produced into robotics, they can still be used in many other things so the robotics supply is not that big to last ages. tl dr robotics at 50k/pu 2weeks after npc get nuked knowledge is power |
Lexi Auran
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Posted - 2010.06.09 09:11:00 -
[904]
So when do they plan to remove all the npc sell orders and buy orders then?
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EveMart Representative
EveMart Corporation
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Posted - 2010.06.09 09:11:00 -
[905]
I prefer the prettier (albeit less efficient) version:
EveMart - The best modules, at the best prices, in the best time. |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.06.09 09:24:00 -
[906]
Originally by: Lexi Auran So when do they plan to remove all the npc sell orders and buy orders then?
Over the next two weeks
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division
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Posted - 2010.06.09 10:20:00 -
[907]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Lexi Auran So when do they plan to remove all the npc sell orders and buy orders then?
Over the next two weeks
tbh I think Ill just let my extractors run down & expire, there's no point trying to manufacture against an infinite NPC market. PI is a waste of time as it stands.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.06.09 10:26:00 -
[908]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Lexi Auran So when do they plan to remove all the npc sell orders and buy orders then?
Over the next two weeks
tbh I think Ill just let my extractors run down & expire, there's no point trying to manufacture against an infinite NPC market. PI is a waste of time as it stands.
C.
EVE always works on the mid-long term, so keep them running and stockpile for when the orders go down. :)
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division
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Posted - 2010.06.09 10:36:00 -
[909]
Originally by: Meiyang Lee
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Lexi Auran So when do they plan to remove all the npc sell orders and buy orders then?
Over the next two weeks
tbh I think Ill just let my extractors run down & expire, there's no point trying to manufacture against an infinite NPC market. PI is a waste of time as it stands.
C.
EVE always works on the mid-long term, so keep them running and stockpile for when the orders go down. :)
True. But assuming everyone does that huge reserves of PI material will flood the market when the NPC orders are finally removed making the end product more, or less, worthless.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.06.09 11:00:00 -
[910]
Originally by: Cailais
True. But assuming everyone does that huge reserves of PI material will flood the market when the NPC orders are finally removed making the end product more, or less, worthless.
C.
Only if they post them for silly prices. Yes supply may out-strip demand a bit at first with huge stockpiles, but if they're careful prices will still be pretty nice.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.09 12:15:00 -
[911]
there are already pi goods on the markets and from what can i tell the rare ones are not very cheap. knowledge is power |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.09 12:20:00 -
[912]
the best part is that someone in ccp was intelligent enough to pull the guidance systems seed then someone put it back in
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mental maverick
Duty. Duty. Private Security
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Posted - 2010.06.09 13:30:00 -
[913]
Originally by: Weaselior the best part is that someone in ccp was intelligent enough to pull the guidance systems seed then someone put it back in
Which incidentaly made it all worse because everybody and their mother saw what happened to prices during the few days they were off the market and subsequently started stocking up on stupid amounts of the stuff as soon as the NPC orders were back.
This part of PI implementation is not AS funny as the first part with the POS mod debacle, but its getting there
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.09 13:49:00 -
[914]
Originally by: Weaselior the best part is that someone in ccp was intelligent enough to pull the guidance systems seed then someone put it back in
I heard ccp called enron for economic advice because they heard they were the smartest guys in the room
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.06.09 14:07:00 -
[915]
Originally by: pmchem I heard ccp called enron for economic advice because they heard they were the smartest guys in the room
People are just way too detached from personal interaction these days... Calling someone in the same room just to avoid face-to-face conversations is taking it a bit too far.
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Confused Tourist
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Posted - 2010.06.09 14:10:00 -
[916]
Did they fix it and retroactively change the price history?
Cause im only seeing robotics buying for 6-7k isk a piece.
Plus price histories only very seldom breached 8k.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 14:32:00 -
[917]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/06/2010 14:34:21
Originally by: Grozen Frankly i see no reason to sell robotics at npc price and i'm sure many people think the same.They should be worth atleast 10x that and even then i still wouldn't sell.Best scenario is to wait till robotics are like 60k each then it will be worth the work.[...] tl dr robotics at 50k/pu 2weeks after npc get nuked
And hence, NOT JUST 1 bil/month but actually much, much more for those that stockpile the needed P2s now and convert them to robotics...
...as long as the stockpiles of cheap P2 last, that is.
Originally by: Weaselior the best part is that someone in ccp was intelligent enough to pull the guidance systems seed then someone put it back in
Unlike skillbook or blueprint NPC orders, "goods" NPC orders do not instantly reseed, but they appear back at downtime.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.09 14:44:00 -
[918]
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Lexi Auran So when do they plan to remove all the npc sell orders and buy orders then?
Over the next two weeks
tbh I think Ill just let my extractors run down & expire, there's no point trying to manufacture against an infinite NPC market. PI is a waste of time as it stands.
C.
I approve and endorse this attitude and imploar moar players to take a stand against an unprofitable pi by not producing.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
Originally by: Marchocias + = +
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 14:52:00 -
[919]
Originally by: Zeba I approve and endorse this attitude and imploar moar players to take a stand against an unprofitable pi by not producing.
And also, mission-runners to strike because... something with missions !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Elari Telson
Solar Engineering Inc.
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Posted - 2010.06.09 14:55:00 -
[920]
Originally by: Zeba I approve and endorse this attitude and imploar moar players to take a stand against an unprofitable pi by not producing.
Same here as there are absolutely no gaps in the market that are not filled with NPC goods so you may as well just not make anything *cough*
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division
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Posted - 2010.06.09 15:00:00 -
[921]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Cailais
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Lexi Auran So when do they plan to remove all the npc sell orders and buy orders then?
Over the next two weeks
tbh I think Ill just let my extractors run down & expire, there's no point trying to manufacture against an infinite NPC market. PI is a waste of time as it stands.
C.
I approve and endorse this attitude and imploar moar players to take a stand against an unprofitable pi by not producing.
Keep the red flag flying high Comrade!
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Alexi Blue
Serra Technologies
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Posted - 2010.06.09 15:02:00 -
[922]
But damn, PI is such a clickfest... Probably took me 1 hour to set up one planet with 21 factories and linking / routing everything. ---
Serra Blueprint Store |
Salvia Olima
The All-Seeing Eye Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.09 15:10:00 -
[923]
It is so good to see that CCP finally counts a strategic integer (that never fails to appear) to the EvE economy: stupid greed. This is exactly how they will keep robotics prices low.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.09 15:16:00 -
[924]
well at least now i know robotics won't be a prob when it comes to fueling towers knowledge is power |
pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.09 15:29:00 -
[925]
Originally by: Akita T
Unlike skillbook or blueprint NPC orders, "goods" NPC orders do not instantly reseed, but they appear back at downtime.
wrong. you can buyout a station and then instantly do it again, and again, and again. in fact you're pretty consistently wrong when it comes to the specifics of npc order items (see also: prices to make outposts from reprocessed POS/sov gear), I think you need to log in and play more instead of thread warrioring all day.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 15:33:00 -
[926]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/06/2010 15:36:14
Originally by: pmchem I think you need to log in and play more instead of thread warrioring all day.
HERETIC !
Originally by: pmchem wrong. you can buyout a station and then instantly do it again, and again, and again.
Cool ! It's WORSE than I thought ! Fly, PI minions, fly, break the robotics chains !
P.S. Everybody else, remember to stockpile craploads of stuff. Thank pchem for correcting me
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.09 15:41:00 -
[927]
Originally by: pmchem
Originally by: Akita T
Unlike skillbook or blueprint NPC orders, "goods" NPC orders do not instantly reseed, but they appear back at downtime.
wrong. you can buyout a station and then instantly do it again, and again, and again. in fact you're pretty consistently wrong when it comes to the specifics of npc order items (see also: prices to make outposts from reprocessed POS/sov gear), I think you need to log in and play more instead of thread warrioring all day.
Actually you cen set up a buy order and it will suck on the npc sell order until your buy order is filled. The npc sell order won't get up into price.
Pretty useful if there are only few npc items sold at a station like 10 or 20.
You still can buy easily millions of units that way.
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Narfas Deteis
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Posted - 2010.06.09 16:41:00 -
[928]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Actually you cen set up a buy order and it will suck on the npc sell order until your buy order is filled. The npc sell order won't get up into price.
Pretty useful if there are only few npc items sold at a station like 10 or 20.
You still can buy easily millions of units that way.
It works only when stuff reach maximum NPC price (which is base price + 10% or something). Of course NPC sell order won't get up, because it's on maximum level already.
If you set buy order below maximum NPC price, you will get some items and your order will stay forever. So, if you want really cheap stuff then you have to fly there and there, because there's difference between base NPC price, minimum NPC price and maximum NPC price.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2010.06.09 18:14:00 -
[929]
Confirming that the remaining ISK from the technetium adventure, is now invested in the robotics crusade.
Only problem is it will take a few months to process everything into robotics
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Ovella
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Posted - 2010.06.09 18:46:00 -
[930]
Well, in worst-case scenario everyone will just have to use T1 until CCP will do something with PI... It would be such hilarious and appropriate ending to all this farce |
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 19:11:00 -
[931]
Originally by: Ovella Well, in worst-case scenario everyone will just have to use T1 until CCP will do something with PI
No, worst case scenario would be paying a tiny bit extra for some stuff compared to before But it actually looks like you'd be paying LESS for some thanks to how things are right now.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2010.06.09 19:33:00 -
[932]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ovella Well, in worst-case scenario everyone will just have to use T1 until CCP will do something with PI
No, worst case scenario would be paying a tiny bit extra for some stuff compared to before But it actually looks like you'd be paying LESS for some thanks to how things are right now.
Yes.. cause you keep telling people to stockpile like crazy! Thus people are goin' to end up sitting on a bunch of crap, some will luquidity and the 'its free' idiots will drop prices below current NPC values even more so.
It'll be funny when/if the NPC buy orders go poof one downtime and everyone looks around at the mass amount of robotics/c. elecs/mech parts sitting around as the price slams down faster than your mineral basket prediction.. atleast for a crazy yet hilarious couple of months.
Question is tho.. will people cruying tears blame CCP, You, or themselves? I know what most people will say.. CCP did create this mess, yes.. but ultimately people should blame themselves.
No knock on you, I'm aware you fully que'd into whats going on. Kinda curious when the evil T came out to create the shortly insue'ing madness? Given your respect and how much n many people will listen to your every word.
---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it- |
Dzajic
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.06.09 19:56:00 -
[933]
You can still make a couple hundred mill off roboticsLOL in next two weeks while NPC buy orders are up. Only way that can fail is if you were to buy a humongous supply and NPC buy orders disappear tomorrow. Hell, if it goes on by just a week you will pay out all CCs spend toying around and for skillbooks and still earn a hundred or two mill.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.06.09 20:13:00 -
[934]
Originally by: Umega No knock on you, I'm aware you fully que'd into whats going on. Kinda curious when the evil T came out to create the shortly insue'ing madness? Given your respect and how much n many people will listen to your every word.
Look up at the test forum and feedbacks and you will see that the npc buy/sell order and profits of PI are discussed there even before PI got onto TQ.
This is nothing new at all and most people involved stockpiled a bit before, gambling that CCP won't do anything and once they saw that npc orders are still they they got in big time.
Robotics?
Laughable.
Robotics are even less than the tip of the iceberg. Everyone screamed at the cyno-jammer blunder, but recalculating the average raw material price from the cyno-jammer price gave around 0,17 isk per unit raw material. And everyone screamed.
Most of the npc sold PI items are around these 0,17 isk per unit raw material, some even as low as 0,03. And that should be all okay??
As example, you need 192 planetary vehicles (plus tons of other stuff) to make one large control tower. There were tens of millions planetary vehicles sold. You can make hundredthousands of control towers with them without ever having the need to build the planetary vehicles with PI. And same goes with many other items also.
Players can't run planetary interaction with a raw material price around 0,17 - this is just not profitable and earns nothing.
So what is left? The materials which are not covered by npc sell orders and the assembling of the npc sold materials into higher tiered components.
Will that be enough to keep PI interesting enough for the players? The future will show. But to me it didn't make any sense at all to wipe out half or more of PI even before it started just because the PI resources were already available as npc sold items for a long time on the market. |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.09 20:27:00 -
[935]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/06/2010 20:28:01
Originally by: Umega No knock on you, I'm aware you fully que'd into whats going on. Kinda curious when the evil T came out to create the shortly insue'ing madness? Given your respect and how much n many people will listen to your every word.
My philosophy goes like this : if CCP is lazy or careless enough to let something go "bad" with more than enough forewarning from multiple sources, why let them get away with a minor mess, when you can easily expand it to become a HUGE mess by making it as public as humanly possible ? You'd think that they'd take warnings more seriously in the future. Naaaah, that's just wishful thinking, isn't it ?
Quote: It'll be funny when/if the NPC buy orders go poof one downtime and everyone looks around at the mass amount of robotics/c. elecs/mech parts sitting around as the price slams down faster than your mineral basket prediction.. atleast for a crazy yet hilarious couple of months.
Well, it's a bit more complicated and much, much funnier in the long run from an outside perspective. On one hand, whoever doesn't stockpile now will be kicking itself in the gonads if very few end up stockpiling and prices rise radically fast, having missed a huge opportunity. On the other hand, whoever does stockpile now will curse like a madman when they realize nobody wants to buy their stuff a short while later if many people decide to stockpile now. Of course, in the longer run, prices might still rise, but it's a matter of RoI. On the gripping hand, whoever does any PI involving any of the cheaply stockpileable materials now will be truly screwed for a good while either way, the only question being just how screwed they will be, which depends on how many do stockpile now.
P.S. Ultimately, this _IS_ CCP's fault. Everybody else only reacts to whatever the best course of action is depending on the present situation. A situation that only exists because of what CCP chose to do (or not do).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Fumen
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.06.09 21:26:00 -
[936]
Originally by: Akita T
Well, it's a bit more complicated and much, much funnier in the long run from an outside perspective. On one hand, whoever doesn't stockpile now will be kicking itself in the gonads if very few end up stockpiling and prices rise radically fast, having missed a huge opportunity. On the other hand, whoever does stockpile now will curse like a madman when they realize nobody wants to buy their stuff a short while later if many people decide to stockpile now. Of course, in the longer run, prices might still rise, but it's a matter of RoI. On the gripping hand, whoever does any PI involving any of the cheaply stockpileable materials now will be truly screwed for a good while either way, the only question being just how screwed they will be, which depends on how many do stockpile now.
P.S. Ultimately, this _IS_ CCP's fault. Everybody else only reacts to whatever the best course of action is depending on the present situation. A situation that only exists because of what CCP chose to do (or not do).
So what you're saying is that stockpiling is really just gambling on the market and individual attitudes. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, but then nothing lost, either.
Given that CCP could decide that things are going poorly and could change prices or even just yank orders tomorrow, I think I'll do some deeper planning. They yanked the POS stuff off the market pretty damn fast when they finally decided it was just nuts.
I say that if PI fails, it's only because highsec sucks and the alliances, as usual, choke everyone else off. Is there enough people out there to supply alliance space with fuel and construction supplies, let along get enough back to empire for the majority of the players?
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2010.06.09 21:45:00 -
[937]
Heh.
Thousands of people will do what they want, reguardless of what may by the optium start. Thousands of people don't bother with the forums and may not run spreadsheets to be aware of Current isk faucets. Thousands will continue to extract basic and produce P1 on up reguardless, cause in their minds it is 'free'. Thousands will know all this and extract anyway under their own speculations.
When there is no more pillars holding up a floor, and a hard enough weight hits it.. crash. NPC buy/sell gone.. luquidating and panic will begin from some, propelling the result further.
May whole point was, pretty much.. that'll be f'in hilarious when these current NPC prices are irrelevent and actually more expensive than what the future holds. Then all those people sitting on stockpiles of NPC bought goods have actually lost isk when they believed they were on the roads to mass profit.
People not needing to purchase POS cause they make it on their own.. the already stocking up of POS structures.. to think prices will rise any time soon is kinda laughable. The height is now and will only go down for quite a while, in my honest opinion. Sure some things will rise eventually, as how goes supply/demand and people following trends.
But this has the makings of a 'mineral crash' all over again. NPC buy/sell being the current 'old insurance'.
---------------------------------------- -Treat the EVE Market like you're a pimp and it is your 'employee'.. freely fondle it as you wish and make it pay you for it- |
Bodega Cat
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Posted - 2010.06.09 23:04:00 -
[938]
If its macro-able, it will all be worthless.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.10 02:57:00 -
[939]
Originally by: Bodega Cat If its macro-able, it will all be worthless.
Pfft, what isn't ? Mining, check. Ratting, check. Mission-running, check. _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.10 03:58:00 -
[940]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 10/06/2010 04:01:41
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Bodega Cat If its macro-able, it will all be worthless.
Pfft, what isn't ? Mining, check. Ratting, check. Mission-running, check.
Trading? check, (yes you can macro the trade interface) Combat Pff if you can macro combat mission runnning you can figure out how to macro combat, in theory its not as good as haveing a player at the controls, but frankly who cares when you bring in a few extra ships as basicaly giant drone ships to a fight
hell I suspect half the idiots who camp out on the high sec gates in places so they can target you are macros set up just to auto scan ships
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Lialem
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Posted - 2010.06.11 01:21:00 -
[941]
Edited by: Lialem on 11/06/2010 01:21:47 Akita T the more you write, the more non-constructive, the more repetitive and the more boring you become. It looks like you dont really care about PI. You care to become "famous" and keep this thread going until it reaches 1000 pages..... First of all you can stop posting in this thread and start a new one with valid suggestions, without all those stupid quotes.
You turned a thread that was supposed to be for a suggestion into a movie, with you the only actor....
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2010.06.11 04:47:00 -
[942]
And....
Um glad I bought 6 months worth of pos fuel. |
EvilCheez
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Posted - 2010.06.11 05:10:00 -
[943]
All I know is if I wake up and find stacks of broken guidance systems I will never stop smartbombing everything I see.
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Casmy Blue
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Posted - 2010.06.11 07:56:00 -
[944]
I've been playing Eve markets for a few years for profit. I'm not a mission-runner, I don't PvP, and I don't do a lot of manufacturing.
I like trading, which is buying low and selling high and sometimes manufacturing goods which cost me less to manufacture than they do to sell.
While it's true that NPC buy orders are still present, I am right now banking (to the tune of billions) on the fact that goods that can't be NPC acquired and actually require significant time invesments to create are going to be the gold standard.
Right now, there are going to be a few people buying up a lot of NPC goods to manufacture PI goods. But that's not all the PI goods - there are a lot of them required for higher-end materials that will be in strong demand that you can only acquire through PI.
I don't know that CCP didn't intend for players to purchase a lot of NPC goods to supplement the PI system, because at the end of the day, they will need to manufacture those goods within the PI interface to see maximum return on their profits.
So you just spent 500m on guidance systems. Okay. How long do you figure it's going to take to turn that 500m around once the NPC orders are gone? Quite awhile, so your ROI isn't going to be great if you're just planning on dumping a ton of guidance systems into the market the day after the NPC orders vanish.
Some people will do this, but they are not the ones who will make out like bandits on PI. It's going to be the people who manufacture high-demand goods from a combination of NPC and P2/P3 products that will make a killing (but who will also have much longer ROI than the guys who just dump all the stuff they bought back onto the market after NPC orders are gone). It's the people who dedicate hours and days and weeks and months to manufacturing that will do well, and I don't really see a problem with this.
You can buy all the NPC goods you want, but if you want to make your fortune, you STILL need to manufacture within the PI system, and that's STILL a significant time sink no matter how you look at it. Sure, I could build a ton of factories and churn out robotics day and night, but this is a short-term ROI fix, and it doesn't have any impact on the profits that long-term PI investments will eventually spin.
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EvilCheez
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Posted - 2010.06.11 09:10:00 -
[945]
One of the running themes I see in eve (or more pointedly in the eve forums) is the idea that what is good for you is good for everyone. This is generally put forth in a way that suggests that those who don't use the same tactics as you do are idiots.
I remember a post awhile back about how station trading was the way to go. If you have alot of isk it is. If you are just starting out missioning is probably better.
For a person who has 500b to sit around messing with a boring, annoying, busywork mechanic is rtarded.
guidance systems, rocket fuel, planetary vehicules, and fertilizer may not be the way for you, but for others there is not much downside and very very little input involved.
Good Luck.
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Cryptkiller
Minmatar Ebola Allstars
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Posted - 2010.06.11 09:21:00 -
[946]
Originally by: Jovialmadness And....
Um glad I bought 6 months worth of pos fuel.
You won't be when POS fuel bottoms out when the NPC buy orders go bye bye. No floor + huge stockpiles = much downward pressure on fuels, at least in the short/intermediate term. Hell, I kept about 5 Bil worth stockpiled until hearing npc buy orders would be phased out.
Your 6 months fuel today could easily buy 3 years fuel in a few weeks ;)
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Casmy Blue
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Posted - 2010.06.11 09:44:00 -
[947]
Originally by: Cryptkiller
Originally by: Jovialmadness And....
Um glad I bought 6 months worth of pos fuel.
You won't be when POS fuel bottoms out when the NPC buy orders go bye bye. No floor + huge stockpiles = much downward pressure on fuels, at least in the short/intermediate term. Hell, I kept about 5 Bil worth stockpiled until hearing npc buy orders would be phased out.
Your 6 months fuel today could easily buy 3 years fuel in a few weeks ;)
Well, that may not be quite true either, will it.
Nobody knows how much stockpiling is going on because as in any good financial market, there's risk involved. Risk is typically defined as "How many people will do what you're doing?" because the more people that do, the less profitable the venture becomes.
So if thousands of people run around buying millions of NPC goods, then yes, there will likely be significant downward pressure as the supply exceeds the demand mere days after PI goes live. But wait, what exactly IS the demand going to look like?
That's a question that nobody can answer except the devs - though certainly many people in this thread seem to be guessing one way or the other. So without knowing what the supply OR the demand is going to be, you run odds either way that you'll make the wrong choice.
Are the people making the most profits going to be the ones who stockpiled, or will it be the ones who waited and snap up cheap fuel when all the people who stockpiled throw their goods onto the market when NPC orders vanish?
We'll know in ten days or so, but until then, people should be careful either way, since the market is anything but predictable right now.
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.06.11 10:42:00 -
[948]
Edited by: Zartrader on 11/06/2010 10:44:35
There's a lot of assumptions CCP do not want stockpiling and speculation, as if it will screw the market. If anything it will stabilise it.
People do not like making a loss so the pressure will be:
1. If the market goes down stockpilers will not sell which will stabilise the market around current prices.
2. If the market goes up then stockpilers will flood the market, depressing the price to current prices.
So the only issue will be if PI is worth it in cost and time to produce at current prices. For many items it is and for many it is not. This will lead to several 'baskets' of items which will only vary in the cost of individual items that make that basket up, being Invention goods, POS fuel and T3 components. As PI is fairly flexible and with a low barrier to entry the market will be able to change reasonably rapidly to any changes in price so supply and demand should be fairly liquid.
The above is very simplistic but those who think the sky is falling on our heads or that CCP are complete fools may be surprised, we will see. Human nature, especially in a game, has a habit of ignoring common sense.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.11 11:23:00 -
[949]
Originally by: Lialem You turned a thread that was supposed to be for suggestions[...]stop posting in this thread and start a new one with valid suggestions, without all those stupid quotes.
First off, suggestions go in the "where ideas go to die and never be heard from again" subforum. I almost never post in there anymore. And when I do, I completely expect them to do exactly that, wither and die. Out of thousand ideas there, 900 are utter junk, 90 might be nice but can't be done because they're not worth CCP's time, 9 might be interesting enough for people from CCP to actually waste a few minutes pondering, and 1 might, just MIGHT make it on the drawing board, with a minuscule chance of actually making it into the game. And when it does, it comes via the assembly hall anyway. Making suggestions to CCP has ceased being feasible ages ago. You might as well bang your head on a wall hoping to create some antimatter particles. Ever heard of Xaen ? Yeah, thought so. Regardless of what you just answered.
You got the completely wrong idea about this thread.
This thread is NOT about making suggestions, not for something that needs urgent changes, because CCP as good as practically never even seriously considers any player suggestions when they're faced with a crisis. The thread accidentally contains suggestions about what could be done, but not with the hope of actually having CCP do them, because that almost never happens in a case like this... it's just a public reminder of what could have been done and was not done. This thread is about rubbing CCP's face in their own mess and getting as many people as possible to abuse the hell out of CCP's every mistake regarding PI. Will CCP learn from their mistakes ? I hope yes, but I know the answer is most likely not. Should players take advantage of any mistakes CCP makes ? HELL YES. The more the merrier.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Mathias Black
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Posted - 2010.06.11 17:56:00 -
[950]
Originally by: Zartrader
There's a lot of assumptions CCP do not want stockpiling and speculation, as if it will screw the market. If anything it will stabilise it.
...
So the only issue will be if PI is worth it in cost and time to produce at current prices. For many items it is and for many it is not. This will lead to several 'baskets' of items which will only vary in the cost of individual items that make that basket up, being Invention goods, POS fuel and T3 components. As PI is fairly flexible and with a low barrier to entry the market will be able to change reasonably rapidly to any changes in price so supply and demand should be fairly liquid.
I think you're failing to grasp what most of the thread is about. What does "screw the market" mean? You're saying "It won't screw the market, because either things will be cheap or expensive or somewhere in between"... well, yeah, that's true for everything, there's no other state that a thing can be other than cheap or expensive or in between. What exactly would a "screwed" market look like?
The thing you're labeling as "the only issue" has been the only thing most people in this thread have been talking about the entire time, it's the point of the thread. The problem is that if everything produced by PI is selling for super cheap or stockpiled by everyone without any PI needing to be done, then there's no reason to do PI. The market will be "stable", but no one will be doing PI because of how unprofitable it is. And that makes the whole expansion kind of a waste of time. There's a chance that some of the stuff you produce now might be sort of valuable six months from now if you hold onto a huge stockpile, but I don't know if I'll even be playing this game in six months; planetary interaction was supposed to be something that was useful to do NOW, not something that you only do in the hope that maybe the market will go up half a year from now.
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.11 21:49:00 -
[951]
Originally by: Mathias Black
Originally by: Zartrader
There's a lot of assumptions CCP do not want stockpiling and speculation, as if it will screw the market. If anything it will stabilise it.
I think you're failing to grasp what most of the thread is about.
I told him to stop posting pages ago, but he just won't. Starting to suspect he works for CCP and they're still not grasping what is happening to the long term PI market because of this week.
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Terrax Norik
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Posted - 2010.06.11 22:05:00 -
[952]
This dead horse is starting to smell.
I propose they move this thread to "Market Discussions" as soon as possible.
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altinateee
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Posted - 2010.06.11 22:33:00 -
[953]
Wish I could short the PI goods market, this puppy will tank hard in the weeks/months after they pull the npc orders as people liquidate unprofitable positions en masse.
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Zartrader
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Posted - 2010.06.11 22:50:00 -
[954]
Edited by: Zartrader on 11/06/2010 22:54:22
Originally by: pmchem
Originally by: Mathias Black
Originally by: Zartrader
There's a lot of assumptions CCP do not want stockpiling and speculation, as if it will screw the market. If anything it will stabilise it.
I think you're failing to grasp what most of the thread is about.
I told him to stop posting pages ago, but he just won't. Starting to suspect he works for CCP and they're still not grasping what is happening to the long term PI market because of this week.
I post where I like. If you all love the sound of your own voice pontificating away go ahead. Reasoned discussion is not your style anyway.
Just because players disagree with the impact of this that does not mean they are wrong, NO ONE knows for sure what will happen.
Get over yourself.
To the earlier replier, please read what I wrote. I qualified my statements in several places and I was stating what may happen.
The purpose of the original Op has been flogged to death and it's now just a CCP bashing exercise.
Now all of you go on and try bully someone else.
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CeneUJiti
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Posted - 2010.06.11 23:17:00 -
[955]
A most interesting thing is happening in some regions with Robotics. It would appear that players are buying truly massive quantities of Robotics for 150-300ISK below NPC buy orders (which don't last long after downtime, or I'm reading something wrong).
I really should have payed more attention to threads where people tried to calculate limits on P3 and P4 working backwards from current POS prices and material requirements.
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.11 23:50:00 -
[956]
The downward pressure on pos structures and such will be even worse now then it was if they hadnt broken the cyno-jammer parts. Only a few items are worth extracting, and making.
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Cu'chulin
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Posted - 2010.06.12 18:30:00 -
[957]
Sorry if this is answered somewhere (if so just give me the link). I tried reading the forums for about an hour and this topic seemed like the best one to ask.
Is there a date when the PI stuff that is NPC seeded isn't any more seeded?
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.06.12 18:36:00 -
[958]
Originally by: Cu'chulin Sorry if this is answered somewhere (if so just give me the link). I tried reading the forums for about an hour and this topic seemed like the best one to ask.
Is there a date when the PI stuff that is NPC seeded isn't any more seeded?
There are only 2 short responses from the devs on this matter.
The first was an old response (1 months old or so) from Chronitis stating that the NPC orders would be scaled down slowly after release.
The second response is once again by Chronitis, stating that it would be 1-2 weeks.
CCP has been very vague about this issue, I do wish they would give us a clear answer on this. It needs to happen sometime, and the longer CCP waits the more PI is hurt by building stockpiles. Better to just get it over with and finally let the market start to stabilize.
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xilithia
Minmatar pSyChOTIC CareBears
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Posted - 2010.06.13 08:56:00 -
[959]
*cough* I'd say the answer is quite simple. Remove NPC sell orders from the items which have been stockpiled like mad, but keep the NPC buy orders, raising them a bit to and thereby both giving any stockpilers some incentive to sale and also giving those making items through P.I some additional "headroom" in their pricing/markup schemes. Eventually, the massive stockpiles will go down, and we can continue with PI as it was meant to be
Course, I could be wrong, in which case, as another poster said "I've wasted my life"
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Mathias Black
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Posted - 2010.06.13 19:20:00 -
[960]
Or, if there is some alliance or corp that the devs are really worried about, who for some reason were too dense to stockpile goods, and never keep their POS fuel up, and don't want to do PI, and who are too poor to afford player-set prices, they can just give those corps a bunch of free POS fuel and then turn the NPC orders off. I can't imagine there are honestly that many people who were organized enough to buy a bunch of POS's but who are so slow that they would suddenly be out of fuel when the orders are dropped. It would be a little unfair for the devs to just give free stuff to these failure corporations, but I'd much rather they do that then keep dragging PI through the dirt and ruining it for everyone just in the vain hope that those corps will finally start stockpiling the fuel they need.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.14 01:48:00 -
[961]
From another thread...
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob Looks like NPC market orders are no longer renewing. Buy out an NPC station stock and they don't restock. Robotics buy orders look to have gone missing as well.
Can somebody confirm that as being true ?
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Louiss Kimplar
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Posted - 2010.06.14 02:01:00 -
[962]
Originally by: Akita T From another thread...
Originally by: Scrapyard Bob Looks like NPC market orders are no longer renewing. Buy out an NPC station stock and they don't restock. Robotics buy orders look to have gone missing as well.
Can somebody confirm that as being true ?
I'm still seeing NPC buy orders for Robotics in Forge. However, looks like Rocket Fuel sell orders are gone.
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2010.06.14 02:32:00 -
[963]
These appear to be working as before (npc seeded and re-stocking): Consumer Electronics Mechanical Parts Planetary Vehicles Water
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2010.06.14 04:08:00 -
[964]
most of the npc sell orders I checked were still up. rocket fuel appears(?) to be gone, but that was the only one I personally saw that was removed.
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Sister Tanya
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Posted - 2010.06.14 13:32:00 -
[965]
NPC buy orders are the ones that disappear after you buy them until next DT. I have tested this in many station, and can confirm this happens.
Sell orders on the other hand, some NPC sell them and restock immediately (19k something) and others don't, so you need to find a station where the restock occurs, if you wish to buy more then the stocks they have.
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.14 14:10:00 -
[966]
Love how ccp ninja removes the npc orders for rocket fuel.Only 5 player sell orders in lonetrek for those.Looks like rf has been hit wonder whos next knowledge is power |
JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.06.14 14:57:00 -
[967]
Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 14/06/2010 14:58:25
Originally by: Grozen Love how ccp ninja removes the npc orders for rocket fuel.Only 5 player sell orders in lonetrek for those.Looks like rf has been hit wonder whos next
Finally CCP is getting out of their lazy ases.
CCP how about removing some of the pos modules , that can be build right now.
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.15 02:24:00 -
[968]
I am not sure if it has been mentioned yet. But the NPC order staying in so long, as lead to an interesting change in planet desirability. Plasma and lava are pretty much worthless for the forseeable future, even though prior to batch I would have called them the most wanted.
Plus, with there only be a few P0 resource that are needed to be extracted, it will be interesting to see how fast those markets become saturated.
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Felix DeGato
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Posted - 2010.06.15 21:51:00 -
[969]
Ok, So let me chime in here for a second.
The numbers in this Robotics game dont make any sense. Robotics of course require 10 units of Consumer Electronics and 10 units of Mechanical Parts. The NPC sell orders for these items average as follows;
Consumer Electronics / 212.00 isk per unit Mechanical Parts / 615.00 isk per unit.
212.00 x 10 = 2,120.00 isk 615.00 x 10 = 6,150.00 isk
2,120 + 6,150 = 8,270.00 isk
So you take a product that took you 8,270 isk to produce, not including the infrastructure.. and you sell it to an NPC buy order that are on average 6,000.00 isk......... WTH?
The only was to make the 4k profit you mentioned would be by acquiring the P2's at a 70% discount on the numbers I mentioned or by finding Robotics buy orders at twice the price... Something rotten in Denver?
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Jason Babbage
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Posted - 2010.06.15 21:56:00 -
[970]
Edited by: Jason Babbage on 15/06/2010 21:57:36
Originally by: Felix DeGato Ok, So let me chime in here for a second.
The numbers in this Robotics game dont make any sense. Robotics of course require 10 units of Consumer Electronics and 10 units of Mechanical Parts. The NPC sell orders for these items average as follows;
Consumer Electronics / 212.00 isk per unit Mechanical Parts / 615.00 isk per unit.
212.00 x 10 = 2,120.00 isk 615.00 x 10 = 6,150.00 isk
2,120 + 6,150 = 8,270.00 isk
So you take a product that took you 8,270 isk to produce, not including the infrastructure.. and you sell it to an NPC buy order that are on average 6,000.00 isk......... WTH?
The only was to make the 4k profit you mentioned would be by acquiring the P2's at a 70% discount on the numbers I mentioned or by finding Robotics buy orders at twice the price... Something rotten in Denver?
10 Units of Consumer Electronics + 10 units of Mechanical Parts = 3 units of Robotics.
So to use your numbers it takes 8,270 ISK to make 18,000 ISK.
Which is why there are robot factories in New Eden as far as the eye can see.
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Felix DeGato
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Posted - 2010.06.15 21:59:00 -
[971]
Crap... never mind. I completely forgot about the output... 3 units of Robotics, not 1....
Well hell, game on!
(and this is why I post with an Alt)
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Dzajic
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2010.06.15 22:01:00 -
[972]
Well there is the 600 ISK/unit export price. And the fact that if you are 5 minutes to slow after DT you won't see a single NPC buy order on robotics in a huge number of regions.
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NorthEasterly
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Posted - 2010.06.15 23:20:00 -
[973]
From 1 day of 1 robotics farm:
3.5mil in P2 products .8mil in EXPORT fees (I forgot to write down import!) =4.3-5.0mil cost per day
9.2mil in Robotics selling (7k/unit) =4.2-5mil PROFIT per day, for 1 planet, at optimal price (most robotics buy orders are at 6300).
Takes 3 days to recoup initial 9.5mil start up (improved CC)
The profits are far from amazing, don't get too caught up.
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Jason Babbage
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Posted - 2010.06.16 02:48:00 -
[974]
Originally by: NorthEasterly From 1 day of 1 robotics farm:
3.5mil in P2 products .8mil in EXPORT fees (I forgot to write down import!) =4.3-5.0mil cost per day
9.2mil in Robotics selling (7k/unit) =4.2-5mil PROFIT per day, for 1 planet, at optimal price (most robotics buy orders are at 6300).
Takes 3 days to recoup initial 9.5mil start up (improved CC)
The profits are far from amazing, don't get too caught up.
150 million ISK per month for the minimal effort of operating one planet is pretty good money to some of us newer players.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.16 03:14:00 -
[975]
And as soon as the NPC buy orders are gone for good, it's an almost guaranteed price drop of robotics to 4k per unit or thereabouts for a pretty long time (probably even barely 3k for a while)
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.16 05:13:00 -
[976]
Checking the high-sec regions, I looks like around 10-14bil isk a day is being added into the game, by the robotics manufacture scheme. Assuming that a large number of the robotics transactions are from creation. But then again, thats only a few 1000 planets doing it.
Assuming people have even a few days supply of CE and MP on hand to produce their robotics, when CCP removes the buy orders, things will get interesting. Glad I sold all my robotics at 7.2K a unit.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.16 06:54:00 -
[977]
Considering that there is a duping bug around that could theoretically allow a person to create some 5000 P4 items per day with one character and 5 planets, PI is bound to be pretty low profit for a while unless they remove duped items created by big abusers. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
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Dolgozo Lany
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Posted - 2010.06.16 09:08:00 -
[978]
Originally by: Abrazzar Considering that there is a duping bug around that could theoretically allow a person to create some 5000 P4 items per day with one character and 5 planets, PI is bound to be pretty low profit for a while unless they remove duped items created by big abusers.
Would you like to elaborate your statement?
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.06.16 09:13:00 -
[979]
Originally by: Dolgozo Lany
Originally by: Abrazzar Considering that there is a duping bug around that could theoretically allow a person to create some 5000 P4 items per day with one character and 5 planets, PI is bound to be pretty low profit for a while unless they remove duped items created by big abusers.
Would you like to elaborate your statement?
He found a way to dupe items with PI, reproduced it and bug reported it. Hopefully it doesn't take years for this hole to be patched up.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.16 10:55:00 -
[980]
Originally by: Abrazzar Considering that there is a duping bug around that could theoretically allow a person to create some 5000 P4 items per day with one character and 5 planets, PI is bound to be pretty low profit for a while unless they remove duped items created by big abusers.
If that is an accurate statement... ouch. Well, at least, EULA-wise, you're supposed to bugreport it if you find any duping-like behaviour, so whoever exploited like mad without bugreporting it is in for a nasty wakeup when caught (or, maybe, if caught).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Qoi
New Eden Warriors
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Posted - 2010.06.16 11:00:00 -
[981]
Edited by: Qoi on 16/06/2010 11:00:00
Originally by: Abrazzar Considering that there is a duping bug around that could theoretically allow a person to create some 5000 P4 items per day with one character and 5 planets, PI is bound to be pretty low profit for a while unless they remove duped items created by big abusers.
Sounds familiar
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Star Chief
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Posted - 2010.06.16 11:03:00 -
[982]
Akita, start a new thread already. Please.
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.06.16 11:24:00 -
[983]
Link to the bugreport so others can exploi... errrr reproduce it?
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.16 11:38:00 -
[984]
Edited by: Abrazzar on 16/06/2010 11:38:36 It is bug reported and already processed as 'we know and added your input to it'.
I did some thorough research on it. -------- All I want is a better mankind.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.16 11:39:00 -
[985]
Originally by: Star Chief Akita, start a new thread already. Please.
Why ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.06.16 11:40:00 -
[986]
CCP appears to be doing something to TQ while we can't get on. Make of that what you will. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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RaTTuS
BIG Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.06.16 12:00:00 -
[987]
NPC orders gone --
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.06.16 12:04:00 -
[988]
Originally by: RaTTuS NPC orders gone
confirming, NPC orders all gone in Domain. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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JitaAlt 394453
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Posted - 2010.06.16 12:10:00 -
[989]
Orders gone in Lonetrek.
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TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.16 12:14:00 -
[990]
Buh-bye npc orders. Now lets see if P.I shapes up.
_______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =( |
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.06.16 12:17:00 -
[991]
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing Buh-bye npc orders. Now lets see if P.I shapes up.
Well, robotics won't be worth all that much, when I have to look at a 140k unit sell order... -------- All I want is a better mankind.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.06.16 12:34:00 -
[992]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: TheLordofAllandNothing Buh-bye npc orders. Now lets see if P.I shapes up.
Well, robotics won't be worth all that much, when I have to look at a 140k unit sell order...
For as long as people keep losing T2 drones, Robotics will slowly become worth it again. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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EvilCheez
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Posted - 2010.06.16 12:58:00 -
[993]
Edited by: EvilCheez on 16/06/2010 12:59:05 I was shocked that T2 drone and missile bpos have not been flooding the sell forums lately.
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H3llHound
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing DRACONIAN COVENANT
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Posted - 2010.06.16 13:07:00 -
[994]
NPC orders are gone for good over DT. Happy clickfest everyone :D Recruiting │My 3rd Party Service |
Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.06.16 13:29:00 -
[995]
Message to all stockpilers: sell your stuff at an insane price please, let's milk this.
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Verys
Burning Technologies Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.06.16 16:00:00 -
[996]
Edited by: Verys on 16/06/2010 16:01:36 Introducing: PI Panic!!!
Seems those stockpiles will take a while to disapear.
Originally by: Blane Xero
For as long as people keep losing T2 drones, Robotics will slowly become worth it again.
Been doing some research into robotics as well and from what I can see having 5 planets dedicated to full robotic production will become a specialists market due to the huge consumption of the thousands of pos towers and the many inclusions in all other products.
For example I set up a few colonies on singularity to test my theories and I came out with a production rate of 4320 robotics on a daily basis if you time everything exactly right. Now the daily trade volume of robotics is about 1 mil, however time will tell how far this will go down due to the removal of the npc buy orders, but I expect some serious bottleneck issues here once all the stockpiles are gone.
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2010.06.16 16:14:00 -
[997]
Originally by: Verys .
Shush you. I'll not have you ruining my plans! _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout Been there. Done that. Need antibiotics.
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Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
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Posted - 2010.06.16 16:45:00 -
[998]
well dammit.
I had 16 planets across 4 accounts making robotics for me
not bad considering until i saw "the Akita T" post i hadnt even bothered to look at PI.
and so my first (and only based on the UI) entry into PI has ended.
I reckon i made about 300m profit plus i have good NPC stocks now.
I wish id heard about it earlier tho. + LDSkill+hireLDS |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.06.16 16:50:00 -
[999]
Originally by: Rellik B00n well dammit.
I had 16 planets across 4 accounts making robotics for me
not bad considering until i saw "the Akita T" post i hadnt even bothered to look at PI.
and so my first (and only based on the UI) entry into PI has ended.
I reckon i made about 300m profit plus i have good NPC stocks now.
I wish id heard about it earlier tho.
Facepalm. Reason why I almost never gamble. Greed makes one blind.
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Sister Tanya
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Posted - 2010.06.16 18:15:00 -
[1000]
16 planets x 18 factoriess each running the robotics-Akita'T-setup since day 1, made about 500m profit and got a stock pile of arround 50k robotics 70k of each of the components that will stay with me until either prices run higher, or my POSes run out :P
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.16 18:59:00 -
[1001]
So, did anybody count the sales totals of the needed P2s across all regions yet vs total robotics traded across all regions (minus far enough-pre-Tyrannis robotics trade average), to guess about how many robotics are there on stock now ?
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
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Posted - 2010.06.16 19:22:00 -
[1002]
Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 16/06/2010 19:22:51
Originally by: Akita T So, did anybody count the sales totals of the needed P2s across all regions yet vs total robotics traded across all regions (minus far enough-pre-Tyrannis robotics trade average), to guess about how many robotics are there on stock now ?
Too lazy to check every market but at least in the forge, there's about 100m extra mechanical parts and 100m extra consumer electronics, which would net around 30m robotics. Assuming the forge is 1/2-1/3 of total demand, that's 60-90m robotics potentially out there...which is probably 60-90 days supply evewide
I don't really think it's that bad at this point, i think the situation with other NPC seeded materials (esp. guidance systems, of which 150m in the forge were sold at 418/unit, which is enough for around 25 million recursive computing modules...) is going to be worse. Silicon/silicate glass, etc...we'll see
Also, woo thousanth post _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep! |
digitalwanderer
Gallente DF0 incorporated
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Posted - 2010.06.16 21:06:00 -
[1003]
Might as well remove the NPC orders for enriched uranium,which only needs toxic and precious metals and sells for 5000 isk + per unit,and toxic metals are also needed to produce consumer electronics,which by consequence,are also needed for robotics production.
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Moshe Goldberg
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Posted - 2010.06.17 17:57:00 -
[1004]
Look at those robotics prices in Jita, I wonder what happened?
If you posted here and screamed like a girl about robotics getting worthless when buy orders are gone, you are a noob at economics and shouldn't try to make money in this game trading/producing anything...
Seriously how flawed was that logic?? Limitless supply and fixed price buyout should result in higher prices than limited supply and free market prices?
Meanwhile enjoy your early Christmas with robotics going for 10k+ in Jita.
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Dolgozo Lany
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Posted - 2010.06.18 07:55:00 -
[1005]
Edited by: Dolgozo Lany on 18/06/2010 07:55:31 Most of the robotics-doom-sayers were 5/10 trolls trying to force future competition to fire sale to npc till it was possible. The others were plain stupid, who a) don't know wtf they were talking about and just **** posting in the forums (for serious-business-Internet-spaceship-celebrity fame and attention hunting) or b) haven't seen robotics construction close hand or haven't calculated the new PI-age EVE's robotics consumption.
Pick your choice where the previous posters (starting with Akita T) belong to.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.06.18 07:59:00 -
[1006]
Originally by: digitalwanderer Might as well remove the NPC orders for enriched uranium,which only needs toxic and precious metals and sells for 5000 isk + per unit,and toxic metals are also needed to produce consumer electronics,which by consequence,are also needed for robotics production.
The new price of robotics represents the value of the components, not the previous price. It here to stay and expect it to go higher.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.18 11:10:00 -
[1007]
Edited by: Merouk Baas on 18/06/2010 11:13:16 You know, I'm seeing a lot of orders but not much volume actually being traded.
And also, did you know that construction blocks (and a lot of other formerly-trade-goods) still drop from various mission destructable structures? It's small volume, but still, it adds up.
EDIT: I doubt the prices are "here to stay". People are inflating the prices hoping for a quick profit before all the pi lemmings start cranking out stuff from planets in huge volumes.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.18 12:17:00 -
[1008]
Originally by: Dolgozo Lany force future competition to fire sale to npc till it was possible
Well, we can't have too many stocks in other people's hands, that's not going to result in much of a profit for anybody, now isn't it right ?
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Star Chief
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Posted - 2010.06.18 12:23:00 -
[1009]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Star Chief Akita, start a new thread already. Please.
Why ?
1. It's a ***** trying to go back and view something that I thought was said on page 22, or 26, etc. 2. Now that the discussion has shifted, a new thread will allow the new discussion to be followed more closely.
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Suicida1
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Posted - 2010.06.18 14:16:00 -
[1010]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Dolgozo Lany force future competition to fire sale to npc till it was possible
Well, we can't have too many stocks in other people's hands, that's not going to result in much of a profit for anybody, now isn't it right ?
So all of this was planned at Sir Molle BBQ 2005?
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Svarty II
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.22 01:18:00 -
[1011]
So..
Supply and demand economics should come into effect because all the POS stuff is made from PI. But it appears that this will be completely fubarred due to lots of people with huge stockpiles of stuff(tm) from before the NPC price changes... er...increases... chincreases.
It is only now that I realise I have no idea how necessary all the P4 stuff is. i.e. How many broadcast nodes does one POS need? How many does it use per day, or are they perma?
This might be a little off-topic, but can anybody point me at a website where I can find this? My Google-Fu is failing me.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.22 01:21:00 -
[1012]
You only need the P4s to build'em. Look at the blueprint showinfos. In case you don't know how to do that - open up the market, go to the search tab, type in a partial (like, say "tower") and hit enter, then look in the list that shows up for the blueprint you want.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Svarty II
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.06.22 19:00:00 -
[1013]
Originally by: Akita T You only need the P4s to build'em. Look at the blueprint showinfos. In case you don't know how to do that - open up the market, go to the search tab, type in a partial (like, say "tower") and hit enter, then look in the list that shows up for the blueprint you want.
I appreciate your advice, thanks. I would be very interested if anybody knows how much demand there might be for p4 stuff? It seems that it's all perma gear that doesn't wear out, and thus won't have a quick throughput... i.e. producers won't sell them quikly enough to make good profit.
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pmchem
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.22 19:25:00 -
[1014]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: digitalwanderer Might as well remove the NPC orders for enriched uranium,which only needs toxic and precious metals and sells for 5000 isk + per unit,and toxic metals are also needed to produce consumer electronics,which by consequence,are also needed for robotics production.
The new price of robotics represents the value of the components, not the previous price. It here to stay and expect it to go higher.
Anyone using PI to produce robotics (or the P2s which go into robotics, like consumer electronics) right now is a fool. For the same amount of effort you can produce different P3s which sell for 10x the price and just buy robotics if you need them... and make a nice profit while you're at it.
Many other PI items which were massively stockpiled from npc sell orders suffer the same problems in comparison to the "new" PI products.
Full disclosure: I don't own any robotics and don't produce them via PI.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.06.22 22:40:00 -
[1015]
Originally by: Svarty II I would be very interested if anybody knows how much demand there might be for p4 stuff? It seems that it's all perma gear that doesn't wear out, and thus won't have a quick throughput... i.e. producers won't sell them quikly enough to make good profit.
It's not like towers are invulnerable, you know ? Plenty of towers get destroyed (and have to be replaced) on a somewhat regular basis, even in highsec (wardec on research corps, and if they don't take their towers down, they can be blown up), let alone lowsec, 0.0 or w-space. And there's always the issue of SBUs and TCUs, which should be churned through at a more or less regular rate as long as there's any Sov warfare in 0.0. People occasionally want to build outposts too, so again, some demand there too.
Originally by: pmchem Anyone using PI to produce robotics (or the P2s which go into robotics, like consumer electronics) right now is a fool. For the same amount of effort you can produce different P3s which sell for 10x the price and just buy robotics if you need them... and make a nice profit while you're at it. Many other PI items which were massively stockpiled from npc sell orders suffer the same problems in comparison to the "new" PI products.
I can see one scenario where producing robotics isn't quite as stupid : if you have a POS base somewhere deep into 0.0 or w-space, and you seldom (if ever) visit empire space, either because it's too boring, too tiring, you lack the logistics capability or you're trapped or whatnot else, and it's much more convenient (for you) to just produce all POS fuel locally instead. But yeah, in general, producing Robotics from scratch right now, if anywhere near empire space (logistically speaking "cheap"), that's pretty silly for the time being.
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