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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:24:00 -
[1]
We all believe that the reprocessing issue with POS arrays/mods is a CCP mistake. Lets assume for a moment that it isn't.
Scenario (very hypothetical):
1. Lots of people buy HUGE amount of NPC POS mods, for reprocessing 2. POS's and equipement becomes way cheaper than currently purchasable from NPC's 3. Lots more players/corps put up POS's with attendant structures because its cheap to do 4. Demand for POS fuel spikes 5. POS fuel and other requirements only comes from PI (mainly) 6. Demand for planetary mining/exploration spikes to meet demand 6a. Mining decreases due to loss of earning (mineral price crash) 6b. Miners switch to planetary interaction to get their carebear fix and earn more cash
The big loser will probably be P4 PI products. More money in the lower ends (at least in the medium term).
OK, this whole scenario is design by accident but look at CCP's objective. Launch an expansion that gets a lot of interest and brings people into/back to the game.
This *mistake* will probably make PI a successful launch (equals more cash for CCP).
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:32:00 -
[2]
I suggested that this is a good method to soft-start PI in the other thread and everyone thought I was crazy.
I also suggested in the GD thread that eve players love to punish themselves by creating more work. They also hate things being affordable like not needing to grind 10 hours of level 4 missions to buy one item.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:34:00 -
[3]
You're starting to sound like me . Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is that the GAME design team is separate from the CODING team. Nobody said, "oops, this game design will have a fatal weakness if we have to somewhat postpone the QA and Coding.
As for your theory...I have to say I don't buy it. The yearly cost of a POS is already 90% fuel. I don't see usage spiking as total cost won't change much.
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wakalaka
Information And Entropy
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:51:00 -
[4]
Add moooar moons to each planet. Lower the standing requirements to set a POS (I think this is the biggest bottleneck currently). Make the cost proportional to standing or something similar, not just a block wall/grind. Redo and improve all the corp permissions POS related, so that you can apply them per POS. Allow to rent slots (manufacture, copy, research, processing lines in general) to other people (even corp outsiders), to make it a bit more social and optimize resources. Implement a system so that these people can take their stuff from the POS.
I don't think the POS cost itself is the biggest problem.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:33:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/05/2010 03:34:43
It's been confirmed by both the bughunter team and the GM team that it's a bug/oversight that will not be considered an exploit, and action might be taken. But yeah, sure, for the sake of argument, let's assume for now that it was intentional. Even so, cosmoray, like Alice Celadon just pointed out, this theory is a very big stretch of the imagination.
For starters, the entire PI-obtainable POS fuel mass for one entire year of POS operation is noticeably smaller (as far as "planetary material extraction" is concerned) compared to the same type of "extraction numbers" needed to build and equip the very same POS. Sure, the average lifetime of a tower might be long, but not quite that long to compensate... and even if it would eventually compensate, it would do so WORSE at the very start. Also, the greatest (soon to be former) NPC ISK sink was not so much POS fuel or POS structures, but SOV STRUCTURES. And those... those are as good as excluded from the get-go. Even if by some insane miracle the amount of POSes across the EVE universe would magically increase one full order of magnitude, it would just about compensate for the "removed demand" of P4 stuff by letting this happen.
This does not make sense as a "plan for stealth boost of PI", because it's the exact opposite... it doesn't increase demand for PI products, it radically decreases it - BOTH very sharply in the short run, and still ugly in the average run. Only in the very, very, VERY long run does that make any sense, but that's the situation we would have had anyway from the get-go if this allegedly intentional "oversight" would have not happened.
EDIT : outposts might suck in some of the P4 stuff, but they do not require consumables, and probably all the necessary POSes were already in place in the area where one would be constructed. No advantage in this scenario.
So, no, sorry, it's not even a good hypothetical scenario. Again, reminding you of the fact that it is indeed purely hypothetical, as there is some proof to the contrary already.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Akita T This does not make sense as a "plan for stealth boost of PI", because it's the exact opposite...
It is a stealth boost for PI; now you don't have to waste your time doing it.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 03:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Professor Leech It is a stealth boost for PI; now you don't have to waste your time doing it.
If you put it like that, I'm afraid I'd have to agree with you
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:22:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Professor Leech It is a stealth boost for PI; now you don't have to waste your time doing it.
pretty much wins the thread
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Professor Leech
Originally by: Akita T This does not make sense as a "plan for stealth boost of PI", because it's the exact opposite...
It is a stealth boost for PI; now you don't have to waste your time doing it.
11/10
forum winner for the day!
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Slavemaster
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:42:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Slavemaster on 28/05/2010 04:45:57 The odds that they made an Error is far bigger. Its to complicated to fix, and being caught with their pants down is to hard for the ego.
BUT, if CCP stealth fix it, so that it will be worthless, or result in a loss in the end then ok... - "2. POS's and equipement becomes way cheaper than currently purchasable from NPC's" Quote OP
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 04:53:00 -
[11]
One thing to remember is CCP didn't remove the capital construction part / minerals from the reprocessing of Pos mods until about a week before the inital launch date of this patch.
So they knew that Pos mods could and would be reprocessed and decided not to crash the mineral market by removing them. If they just missed cyno-jammers and such for P4 mats, I dont know.
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Companion Trollin
You are going too fast
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: cosmoray :tinfoil:
Honestly, if nothing else, the current state of "reprocess starbase structures to build other starbase structures" is a hilarious solution to insurance exchange inflation.
I'm not reading any more into it than that.
♥
Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic.
Thanks.
-- Shadow
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T It's been confirmed by both the bughunter team and the GM team that it's a bug/oversight that will not be considered an exploit, and action might be taken.
You know this is the part that annoys the hell out of me. I'm not the biggest fan of CCP's, well known, but I really do make a point of trying to respect what they are doing, or trying to do with this game, because they do deserve it. Then, when **** like this happens, CCP is the one to lower the standard. And people wonder why I sound so ****ing annoyed with CCP at times? Here you go: because I'm fool enough, or dumb enough, to try to play the game the right way even when I know that CCP doesn't really give a ****. After all, even some of their own Staff can't not cheat. I wonder if I looked up the word "mug" would I find my picture?
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Chaos Dreams
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Shar Tegral I wonder if I looked up the word "mug" would I find my picture?
You is a coffee cup?
(couldn't resist)
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General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Akita T It's been confirmed by both the bughunter team and the GM team that it's a bug/oversight that will not be considered an exploit, and action might be taken.
After all, even some of their own Staff can't not cheat. I wonder if I looked up the word "mug" would I find my picture?
i doubt any CCP thought to overlook this on purpose. As prior to patch launch, only ~2100 units of cyno jammers had sold. 1700 was to me, 200 to a corp mate of mine, and the other ~300 or so to someone else.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Chaos Dreams You is a coffee cup?
Ironic you should ask. However I meant it in British slang.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Companion Trollin
You are going too fast
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Shar Tegral Here you go: because I'm fool enough, or dumb enough, to try to play the game the right way even when I know that CCP doesn't really give a ****.
Here's the core of your problem: You're assigning moral value judgments to actions in a capitalism simulator.
Your worldview isn't compatible, enjoy the rocky ride.
♥
Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic.
Thanks.
-- Shadow
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.05.28 06:12:00 -
[18]
Oversight or not hundreds of billions of not Trillions of ISK has exited the game.. Why would CCP remove/fix an awesome ISK Sink?
Now "tinfoil hat" aside, if you look at the market history back on the 16th someone purchased 550 cyno jamers, a few orders of rapid equipment arrays in The Forge. This was on the 16th! Near two weeks before the patch. Knowing the CCP track unusual market trends, this for sure would have raised a red flag considering Cyno Jammers hardly sell any daily in The Forge.
I'll admit this has the makings of a real screwup, but it's one of those accidental hidden benefits they may not want to try to fix. Like getting a brain tumor removed and an accidental side effect is your perpetuity glans leaks endorphins when shake your head a little. Just how much does 4000 cyno jammers make anyway? A few POSes? Considering Large Caldari POS along in The Forge sells about 10-20 a day. That's a sizable amount of planet stuffs.
Has someone run the numbers on how many POSes 4000 cyno jammers will make? Because if it's only a few days worth I doubt CCP will even care. I know I wouldn't, I'd sit back and laugh, thinking OH CRAP I MISSED THIS!! Wait a second, this might just work out for our benefit, so PI is screwed for a few days even if it's screwed for a month I can deal with that. But TILLIONS of ISK exiting the game, THAT'S worth more then a month of screwy PI numbers.
Amarr for Life |
General Bezelbub
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.05.28 06:27:00 -
[19]
you need 5 cyno jammers and 5 REAA roughly per large tower. this also gets you alot of change p4 parts.
And I didnt want to wait the 2 weeks for patch, in case ccp preemptively changed live on npc buy orders. Was too good an opportunity to pass up, so I bought 550 cyno and 400 REAAs to start, then a 1000 more right before patch.
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Companion Trollin
You are going too fast
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Posted - 2010.05.28 06:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: SencneS Oversight or not hundreds of billions of not Trillions of ISK has exited the game.. Why would CCP remove/fix an awesome ISK Sink?
This is the part that has me laughing a bit.
Remember all of the "OMG INFLATION INSURANCE FRAUD OH LAWD" posts over the last six months? Well, here's a remarkably elegant solution - the only question is whether this was accidental or intended.
♥
Originally by: CCP Shadow Off-topic posts dealing with sexual orientation have been removed. Please keep this discussion on-topic.
Thanks.
-- Shadow
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.05.28 07:06:00 -
[21]
Quote:
I also suggested in the GD thread that eve players love to punish themselves by creating more work.
Of course, otherwise they'd not play a MMO, expecially a sandbox one.
EvE humorously teached me not to play EvE.
By playing EvE in my 30 free minutes of time a day and following the MD:
1) I learned the importance of economy (as in "day by day impact")
2) I learned that economy and finance are things that are better to live actively than being used by others who know how to operate these.
3) I learned that by playing I miss opportunities to DO economy and finance
4) With the learned concepts of optimizing ROI, I learned that I could be better putting what I learned in EvE in practice (RL ISK/hour >>> EvE ISK/hour)
5) Still in the making: with the ROI achieved by not playing 30 minutes of EvE but trading IRL, I could put myself in position to finally be able to play EvE for hours .
Quote:
They also hate things being affordable like not needing to grind 10 hours of level 4 missions to buy one item.
I have played many MMOs that believed to have invented the Holy Grail by making things quick'n'easy to achieve. They all, all failed horribly, the only one still not fully passed out is Warhammer Online.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Epikurus
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Posted - 2010.05.28 09:56:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Epikurus on 28/05/2010 09:57:05
Originally by: SencneS
I'll admit this has the makings of a real screwup, but it's one of those accidental hidden benefits they may not want to try to fix. Like getting a brain tumor removed and an accidental side effect is your perpetuity glans leaks endorphins when shake your head a little.
Endless endorphins?
edit - RAW's alt. Damn forums.
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