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Aethana
Minmatar Caldari Strike Force
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Posted - 2010.05.31 21:43:00 -
[1]
I've been reading about macros.
Apparently they recognize the red setting or neutral of people in local, and that triggers an autowarp to a safespot. From there they autocloak.
What if CCP coded fake people in their database that were in every 0.0 local in code, but text was invisible to human players, but a macro client would see it as a neutral.
Thus there would always be a "neutral" in 0.0 local but no human could see it, but macro clients would recognize it.
Thus the macro client would "read" the person in local, cloak all day or log, but people flying through wouldn't actually see anything.
Would this work?
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Kellen Ved
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Posted - 2010.05.31 21:46:00 -
[2]
Pretty sure the macros don't read the code they read the color variations on the screen, unless I am mistaken this would not work.
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Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.05.31 21:46:00 -
[3]
no
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Dian'h Might
Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.05.31 21:46:00 -
[4]
no.
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Greymoon Avatar
Greymoon Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.31 21:48:00 -
[5]
It's called AFK Cloaking, and it is very effective. It even stops legitimate ratters and miners.
...
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Th155
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Posted - 2010.05.31 21:49:00 -
[6]
No, because macro's use pixel reading, not magical database sight Anything you can see, the macro can see, anything you can't see, the macro can't see.
What would work would be maybe hueing every single item in the game (client side) up by 1% or something, not noticeable to the human eye, but macro's won't be able to navigate.
And so that after ten years it doesn't go around the entire hue spectrum, have it swing round say 3% hue...
Yea, i just thought of that 5 seconds ago...
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Dian'h Might
Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.05.31 22:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Th155 What would work would be maybe hueing every single item in the game (client side) up by 1% or something, not noticeable to the human eye, but macro's won't be able to navigate.
Except that it takes all of 60 seconds to change the hue value in your pixel recognition program to account for the 1% variation. macros are then back up and running within 5 minutes of the patch in which that change was implemented.
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Th155
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Posted - 2010.05.31 22:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dian'h Might
Originally by: Th155 What would work would be maybe hueing every single item in the game (client side) up by 1% or something, not noticeable to the human eye, but macro's won't be able to navigate.
Except that it takes all of 60 seconds to change the hue value in your pixel recognition program to account for the 1% variation. macros are then back up and running within 5 minutes of the patch in which that change was implemented.
Like i said, an idea that took all of five seconds to come up with
And no, it would take all of a day, searching through your code base, finding anything that looks like a hex colour code, and changing it by 1%...
Anyway, the change would be client side, and random.
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Dian'h Might
Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.05.31 22:30:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Th155 Like i said, an idea that took all of five seconds to come up with
If it was that simple it would have been solved already. This topic has been brought up 100's of times by armchair programmers and nothing you've suggested so far is even close to a remotely new idea.
Originally by: Th155 And no, it would take all of a day, searching through your code base, finding anything that looks like a hex colour code, and changing it by 1%...
No hex needs to be searched, simply fire up the game and grab the value of the color at that part of the screen and then set it in your program. You could probably even make a program to do it on the fly (like the dropper tool in ms paint).
Originally by: Th155 Anyway, the change would be client side, and random.
Because it's impossible to write code to activate for a range of values within a 1% deviation rather than a specific value...
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THERisingPHOENIX
Caldari TWiZTED CHAOZ
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Posted - 2010.05.31 22:38:00 -
[10]
Have a character for each system to pop in local at random time interval (e.g. average of 5 mins). The character would be called something that we can tell as a CCP anti macro. It should have blue standing to everyone so it would not disrupt any players.
Since the character pop in local which everyone can see, it would also be detect by macro miners and therefore cloak and hide most or all the time.
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Kellen Ved
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Posted - 2010.05.31 22:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Have a character for each system to pop in local at random time interval (e.g. average of 5 mins). The character would be called something that we can tell as a CCP anti macro. It should have blue standing to everyone so it would not disrupt any players.
Since the character pop in local which everyone can see, it would also be detect by macro miners and therefore cloak and hide most or all the time.
Why would a macro run away from a blue?
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2010.05.31 23:13:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 31/05/2010 23:15:11 This is what I do in real life. More or less. And what is frustrating is that I know how do-able stopping macros would be if CCP devoted even a part-time dev/analyst to it.
1) Find common traits linkable to account. Such as maintaining subscription through timecards, or substantial, repeated and steady flow of ISK between characters
From there, two directions
a) THE BIG GROUPS: find "batches" of accounts linked by history of shared IP
i- investigator digs into ISK flow/IP/registration info between these accounts to verify non-trivial link / reduce false positives ii- investigator uses magic GM commands to observe random sampling of linked accounts to verify they are engaging in macro-like behavior iii- ban everyone via batch closure
b) THE INCIDENTALS: regularly queue some fraction of accounts that meet the aforementioned risk criteria
i-investigator digs deeper into queued accounts and uses magic GM powers to see if account is sufficiently likely a macro ii- block that account from paying by timecard and send customer in-game CONCORD mail explaining some bs-rp reason, while simultaneously sending their RL email a less bs reason. Perhaps have this be some sort of probationary thing, where the customer has a chance to prove good faith.
edit to add: CCP, if you're reading this, I would love a chance to live in Iceland for a while. . .
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Valeronx
Celestial Horizon Corp. United Corporate Ventures
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Posted - 2010.05.31 23:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Have a character for each system to pop in local at random time interval (e.g. average of 5 mins).
Why not simply put Local in delayed mode, just like Wormhole space? That way it would plug the very large hole of using Local as a free intel channel. You could have it so Empire space functions like now, you show up when you enter local instantly, low sec would be a 10 or 15 minute delay, and 0.0 would be like WH space, you don't show unless you speak.
.
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Dan Garvin
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Posted - 2010.05.31 23:34:00 -
[14]
Most macro miners use purchased programs. If any change is made to the screen that the macro is looking for will stop the macro from working. This will force the macro miner to get a new program or an update. Any thing a human can do the macro can do so thiers no way to stop it but you can force macro company's to continually have to update thier programs.
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THERisingPHOENIX
Caldari TWiZTED CHAOZ
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Posted - 2010.05.31 23:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kellen Ved
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Have a character for each system to pop in local at random time interval (e.g. average of 5 mins). The character would be called something that we can tell as a CCP anti macro. It should have blue standing to everyone so it would not disrupt any players.
Since the character pop in local which everyone can see, it would also be detect by macro miners and therefore cloak and hide most or all the time.
Why would a macro run away from a blue?
Ahh, yes ur right. Didnt thought about that. Meh, neut it then. u wouldn;t require much thinking to tell that its a CCP Anti Macro
Originally by: Valeronx
Originally by: THERisingPHOENIX Have a character for each system to pop in local at random time interval (e.g. average of 5 mins).
Why not simply put Local in delayed mode, just like Wormhole space? That way it would plug the very large hole of using Local as a free intel channel. You could have it so Empire space functions like now, you show up when you enter local instantly, low sec would be a 10 or 15 minute delay, and 0.0 would be like WH space, you don't show unless you speak.
.
Thats would be a great idea. Make 0.0 more easy to go through and nerf gate camp effectiveness making the pvp sector more interesting and a bit complex rather than waiting for someone to pop on local >.>. Expect whiners though....
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Grez
Core Contingency
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Posted - 2010.05.31 23:50:00 -
[16]
Macro'ers use the Logserver. ---
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2010.06.01 02:30:00 -
[17]
Misinformation would work.. I've come of with a number of complicated trys where a person could tell but not a macro, but how about if neither could tell?
Just have randomly selected player names cruise through all systems ... if you shot at them only then would you get a message that they were only a "aparation" made by concord.
It would change things a bit for all players... it actually could stir types of pvp up a bit making people a bit more complacent perhaps, or add another strategic wrinkle tailing one of those ships or warping in on types of ships that de-cloaked to attacth them.
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Fearless M0F0
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.06.01 02:58:00 -
[18]
I say add random triggers to belt rats, real players will gtfo and get help, macros on the other hand...
-- Fearless M0F0> RELEASE TEH KRAKEN! Teh Kraken> RAWR
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.01 03:01:00 -
[19]
They're working on making it harder; it's slightly more difficult (though probably not much) to travel 2 systems away for a mission than it is to just undock and warp to the location. It's slightly more dangerous, too, especially if the macro decides to take the easy way and autopilot, spending time to approach the gates. So, the change they made to the agents and how far they send you was partially aimed at macroers.
As far as the other thing that has to be done, namely, changing the game mechanics to not be repetitive and easily macro-able, that's probably too difficult and time consuming to do with the game. But, basically, the fact that EVE is supposed to be this cold harsh universe works against CCP; everyone else is able to make the newbie experience and the levelling up experiences as easy, painless, and thus pointless-to-macro, as possible.
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ghosttr
Amarr Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.06.01 04:49:00 -
[20]
Why cant ccp have certain npcs pop up in local, like couriers or something *cough* interbus *cough*.
Actually having npc, couriers, and gangs that roam 0.0 and pop up in local would be pretty cool. Even if it didnt **** with macros Support chat filters in eve |
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Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.06.01 05:09:00 -
[21]
Dear OP,
FID is that-a-way. ---->
Sincerely, Julius Rigel
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ghosttr
Amarr Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.06.01 05:18:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Julius Rigel Dear OP,
FID is that-a-way. ---->
Sincerely, Julius Rigel
Douche channel is that way ----> Support chat filters in eve |
Irillide
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Posted - 2010.06.01 05:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 31/05/2010 23:15:11 This is what I do in real life. More or less. And what is frustrating is that I know how do-able stopping macros would be if CCP devoted even a part-time dev/analyst to it.
1) Find common traits linkable to account. Such as maintaining subscription through timecards, or substantial, repeated and steady flow of ISK between characters
From there, two directions
a) THE BIG GROUPS: find "batches" of accounts linked by history of shared IP
i- investigator digs into ISK flow/IP/registration info between these accounts to verify non-trivial link / reduce false positives ii- investigator uses magic GM commands to observe random sampling of linked accounts to verify they are engaging in macro-like behavior iii- ban everyone via batch closure
b) THE INCIDENTALS: regularly queue some fraction of accounts that meet the aforementioned risk criteria
i-investigator digs deeper into queued accounts and uses magic GM powers to see if account is sufficiently likely a macro ii- block that account from paying by timecard and send customer in-game CONCORD mail explaining some bs-rp reason, while simultaneously sending their RL email a less bs reason. Perhaps have this be some sort of probationary thing, where the customer has a chance to prove good faith.
edit to add: CCP, if you're reading this, I would love a chance to live in Iceland for a while. . .
CCP have done mass macro banning drives in the past. As you suggested they targeted the large outfits by working backward from isk selling incidents.
I don't belive it is CCPs interest to spend money hiring someone dedicated to remove subscriptions from a relatively small subscriber base game. As such I don't belive it will ever happen to the extent you describe, it isn't profitable.
I don't see why a portion of the playerbase has such a problem with the likes of mining macros that provide cheap minerals to burn in pvp. Would you prefer ship prices to be double what they are now?
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ghosttr
Amarr Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.06.01 05:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Irillide
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 31/05/2010 23:15:11 This is what I do in real life. More or less. And what is frustrating is that I know how do-able stopping macros would be if CCP devoted even a part-time dev/analyst to it.
1) Find common traits linkable to account. Such as maintaining subscription through timecards, or substantial, repeated and steady flow of ISK between characters
From there, two directions
a) THE BIG GROUPS: find "batches" of accounts linked by history of shared IP
i- investigator digs into ISK flow/IP/registration info between these accounts to verify non-trivial link / reduce false positives ii- investigator uses magic GM commands to observe random sampling of linked accounts to verify they are engaging in macro-like behavior iii- ban everyone via batch closure
b) THE INCIDENTALS: regularly queue some fraction of accounts that meet the aforementioned risk criteria
i-investigator digs deeper into queued accounts and uses magic GM powers to see if account is sufficiently likely a macro ii- block that account from paying by timecard and send customer in-game CONCORD mail explaining some bs-rp reason, while simultaneously sending their RL email a less bs reason. Perhaps have this be some sort of probationary thing, where the customer has a chance to prove good faith.
edit to add: CCP, if you're reading this, I would love a chance to live in Iceland for a while. . .
CCP have done mass macro banning drives in the past. As you suggested they targeted the large outfits by working backward from isk selling incidents.
I don't belive it is CCPs interest to spend money hiring someone dedicated to remove subscriptions from a relatively small subscriber base game. As such I don't belive it will ever happen to the extent you describe, it isn't profitable.
I don't see why a portion of the playerbase has such a problem with the likes of mining macros that provide cheap minerals to burn in pvp. Would you prefer ship prices to be double what they are now?
Its the fact that its cheating and we dont want to be rewarding the cheaters for thier behavior. I dont mind payin extra if i know someone is actually having to sit there and mine. But I dont want to be payin for some macro to sit there and mine and rmt the isk. Macros have turned the mining profession into a joke, why should we have a player-run economy at all? Why not just have it all npc ran like any other mmo?
Oh but wait CCP is making money off the sleazy bastards, of course they can stay. Even if they make the game worse for people who actually play it, and not use it as an outlet for rmt.
Support chat filters in eve |
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