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Helen O'Malley
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:25:00 -
[1]
Speaking about pvp 1 vs 1... Assuming our opponent use a Bhaalgorn... what may counter this incredible beast? I think a Nightmare will be switched off very quickly :\
Helen.
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arbiter reformed
Minmatar Reverse Psychology. HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:27:00 -
[2]
fleet phoon, or even a normal phoon if you have slaves, just orbiut close
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Helen O'Malley
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:48:00 -
[3]
orbiting the bhaalgorn with probably a dual web fitted on? i think is hard to orbit a bhaalgorn with his tremendous web :\
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:56:00 -
[4]
very situational, assuming bhaal is buffer fit with LG slaves, looking around 200k EHP, with about 800 DPS
fleet phoon is a good choice, i'm prob try and fit it something like this
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, New Setup 1] Damage Control II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Juggernaut Torpedo Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x5
beacuse you know your target, the Nos's will keep your tackle running.
with LG slaves you have ~200k EHP, and 1085 DPS, against lasers, 235kEHP,
get close and hope the TD helps, or switch it for another web to be faster than him.
^just a first thought
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Helen O'Malley
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Posted - 2010.06.01 21:58:00 -
[5]
Thx, i liked the strategy... dunno i will try on the Testserver :) i have some bet with a friend that always uses his bhaalgorn :)
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.06.01 22:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Helen O'Malley Thx, i liked the strategy... dunno i will try on the Testserver :) i have some bet with a friend that always uses his bhaalgorn :)
hell if its an arranged fight, and you know you will be starting close, switch to an AB, you'll go 90~m/s even when duel webbed, in comparison to his 26m/s webbed
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.06.01 22:09:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Max Tux
Originally by: Helen O'Malley Thx, i liked the strategy... dunno i will try on the Testserver :) i have some bet with a friend that always uses his bhaalgorn :)
hell if its an arranged fight, and you know you will be starting close, switch to an AB, you'll go 90~m/s even when duel webbed, in comparison to his 26m/s webbed
Then warp in a blackbird and lulz as you blow away his pimp fitted faction ship then loot the wreck.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone!
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Car Wars
Pigs In Space United Proletariat
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Posted - 2010.06.01 22:12:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Car Wars on 01/06/2010 22:15:01 he is fighting a bhaalgorn so he wont have cap for any of those mid slot modules...
Fit a large cap booster if you want to use anything apart from the missiles.
Then use thermal and em hardeners, couple of them. Kill his drones.
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demonfurbie
Minmatar Covert-Nexus
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Posted - 2010.06.01 22:17:00 -
[9]
as a bhaal flyer my self id be more worried about a torp cnr/rattlesnake/cns(cruise fit)
all can field huge shield buffers and work out to max(reasonable) nuet/web/point range and seeing as its a laser ship they know what dmgs to tank
or ya could get a scorp and jam it with torps/autos fit and work its buffer off
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.06.01 22:21:00 -
[10]
I'd put money on: - Mach - Fleet Phoon - Phoon - Fleet Scorp - CNR - Fleet Tempest - Dual MSE Jag - Curse
Hmm, I'm sure there's a few more. To me the Bhaalgorn isn't a good solo ship, but it makes a pretty damn good gang ship.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
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Helen O'Malley
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Posted - 2010.06.01 22:29:00 -
[11]
thx for good advices mates! i will work on these...
Helen.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.06.02 00:27:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/06/2010 00:33:45 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/06/2010 00:32:02 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/06/2010 00:28:27 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/06/2010 00:27:31
Originally by: Liang Nuren I'd put money on: - Mach - Fleet Phoon To me the Bhaalgorn isn't a good solo ship, but it makes a pretty damn good gang ship.
You'd be wrong, although the first two in plate fits are the most likely contenders, if they land at zero and if they're specific counterfits to somehow have the cap to keep any modules running ( else the Blaghorn is faster because of dual webs and I honestly doubt Javs will reach 30km despite what EFT tells me). The Blaghorn provides a epic amount of neutage which by the time you chew through its ehp would most likely turn off your point, damage control, web, target painter and preety much everything else even with a heavy cap injector. I remember being tackled at a gate by one, by the time my nanopest reapproached, I was running on fumes with injector going full tilt.
Yes, the stuff with capless guns has a good shot at it, but you're seriously underestimating the ship. A curse has a chance maybe if he goes afk for a minute to chug down a bottle of rum first. Also, yes, it's a good solo ship for many things.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 00:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
You'd be wrong. The Blaghorn provides a epic amount of neutage which by the time you chew through its ehp would most likely turn off your point, damage control, web, target painter and preety much everything else even with a heavy cap injector. I remember being tackled at a gate by one, by the time my nanopest reapproached, I was running on fumes with injector going full tilt.
Yes, the stuff with capless guns has a good shot at it, but you're seriously underestimating the ship.
The stuff with capless guns will either kill the Bhaal or force it off the field. But yes, I'm aware of what a Bhaalgorn can do to your capacitor. That's what makes it such a great gang ship.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.06.02 00:37:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/06/2010 00:37:28 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/06/2010 00:37:12
Originally by: Liang Nuren The stuff with capless guns will either kill the Bhaal or force it off the field. But yes, I'm aware of what a Bhaalgorn can do to your capacitor. That's what makes it such a great gang ship. -Liang
Well, yeah, it can, *maybe*. But take that Typhoon or Mach which land out of point blank range and w/out a specific counterfit, the FI typhoon is most likely toast (not sure if Javs really reach 30km as EFT adverises), and Mach, well, yes, it may be able to force it off, provided he's spamming his DC to turn on (and I'm not sure of platemach DPS at 30km anyway).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.06.02 01:25:00 -
[15]
actually i like the rattlesnake idea.... ~1000dps, ~250kehp against lasers (use 2lse, pithum a-type em and therm), can fit duel web and scram, and duel nos, if you both land at zero almost a guaranteed win, esp considering you can put all of that dps at the exp hole.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.06.02 01:29:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 02/06/2010 01:29:47 Arazu/Lach will do it easy, solo. If it's off gate/station so no deaggro.
Just slowly chip away while it can't lock you ever ;P
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Sader Rykane
Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.02 01:50:00 -
[17]
pilgrim probably.
Sig Gallery is currently down: Contact me ingame for prices.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.06.02 01:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sader Rykane pilgrim probably.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
NoNah
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Posted - 2010.06.02 02:03:00 -
[19]
All comes down to what kind of equipment the bhaalgorn would be kiting and what the entry variables are. A rattlesnake would definately force him off or force a tie as it could(should) never be able to break it's tank.
Typhoon as mentioned probably could do it, if well microed and landing on 0.
A widow would most likely also be able to. Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 40566
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 04:48:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Sader Rykane pilgrim probably.
You laugh, but a Pilgrim might just be able to do it - you use (at worst) 62.25 cap at a go between a Scram II/Web II/Balmer TD/AB II/DC II. You cycle +72 cap every 6 seconds as long as he has higher cap than you do (which seems somewhat likely). Even still, you have a cap booster to top it off.
Let me try to calculate the probability of one of his neuts striking you at precisely the wrong moment... His neut frequency = 24 sec, yours = 6 sec. The probability of him disrupting you between any given nos cycle is 25% - making for an expected capture of ~100 seconds. It'll take you 800 seconds to kill him. Factoring in a Talisman set for the Pilgrim decreases the odds to 15.4% and ~160 second expected capture. Even still, that merely allows his escape.
I dunno... it might be within the realm of the possible and would make for a hell of a killmail if you pulled it off.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 05:10:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Harotak on 02/06/2010 05:13:22 Unless the Bhaal is packing two overloaded medium neuts and a talisman set. Then you are getting hit with a neut every ~3 seconds. If I had a Bhaal I wouldn't want three heavy neuts; I would bring one heavy for hitting stuff at range and then two mediums for the faster cycle time. The only thing you need the neuting power of three bonused heavy neuts for is killing capitals, and in that case you should bring a full rack of seven.
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.06.02 05:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Sader Rykane pilgrim probably.
You laugh, but a Pilgrim might just be able to do it - you use (at worst) 62.25 cap at a go between a Scram II/Web II/Balmer TD/AB II/DC II. You cycle +72 cap every 6 seconds as long as he has higher cap than you do (which seems somewhat likely). Even still, you have a cap booster to top it off.
Let me try to calculate the probability of one of his neuts striking you at precisely the wrong moment... His neut frequency = 24 sec, yours = 6 sec. The probability of him disrupting you between any given nos cycle is 25% - making for an expected capture of ~100 seconds. It'll take you 800 seconds to kill him. Factoring in a Talisman set for the Pilgrim decreases the odds to 15.4% and ~160 second expected capture. Even still, that merely allows his escape.
I dunno... it might be within the realm of the possible and would make for a hell of a killmail if you pulled it off.
-Liang
24sec what? His neut frequency should be 24/3 or 8 seconds. If you're at two thirds cap, each single neut hit will empty your cap, and your modules will turn off every so often.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 06:19:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 02/06/2010 06:20:26
Originally by: Qui Shon
24sec? His neut frequency should be 24/3 or 8 seconds if he's fitting three heavies. If you're at two thirds cap, a single neut hit will *empty* your cap, and your modules will turn off every so often.
You have 3 nos, he has 3 neuts... the threes cancel and you end up with 24 and 6. The probabilities of your modules turning off were already covered. I suppose I could have covered the 8 neut case, but I think its pretty obvious you need a cap energy transfer on you to maintain that.
-Liang
Ed: At any rate, I was trying to point out that it might bear more thought than a simple laugh. If people constantly say that a dual MSE jag can keep a point on anything with a pair of small noses, maybe the pilgrim could too? -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2010.06.02 06:42:00 -
[24]
Hmm, okay, but, pilgrim with three nos? People fly it like that? I'd have thought nos + 2 neuts was the standard, or a combo of medium and small neuts.
Or you mean as a specific counter to Bhaal? In which case I think Brankos Celestis wins :p
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2010.06.02 07:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Qui Shon Or you mean as a specific counter to Bhaal? In which case I think Brankos Celestis wins :p
Sure, but I was just saying it could be done. Maybe. Or at least merited more thought than a laugh. ;-)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:28:00 -
[26]
Gank domi, passive buffer fit, 2x jammer with at least 2 flights of medium ecm drones if he has eccm/you're unlucky. Have fun. I remember one very ****ed bhaalgorn pilot on sisi :P
I guess a true passive rattlesnake would be nice too..
Ofcourse bringing a jam alt is less ehonours but .. this is eve..
All the above is prolly crap Drone Guide
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Emperor Exodus
Quantic Apodis FEDERATION SOLARIS
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:34:00 -
[27]
A rattlesnake.. There are no ship who can beat a rattlesnake in 1 VS 1. Some shipscan handle the dps of the rattlesnake but no one can kill it.. nor a vindicator.
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RP McMurphy
The CULT OF DAMNED
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Posted - 2010.06.02 13:39:00 -
[28]
rattler is a good idea.
Even without 3x invuls running u can get 500dps passive tank and fitting two BCUs which give u 870dps with rage torps. without invuls u get 68em and 74therm resists, if u look at 1heatsinked bhaal, he does 708dps with drones before tracking problems and your resists. if we say u are stupid enough not to orbit his ship, u are getting 300dps to your shields.
With heavy cap and two noses in your utility slots i think u can outlast his buffer and neuting power.
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2010.06.02 14:07:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Vrabac on 02/06/2010 14:16:37 Having flown the bhaal solo and in gangs, I can pretty reliably claim that no single ship can really kill it, provided bhaalgorn in question isn't a complete moron. As a matter of fact most groups of ships smaller than 5 will have serious issues, with obvious exception being ECM that will work against anything, bhaal included. It should do some 900 dps, it has naturally high ehp thanks to being faction, it SHOULD have double web and mwd (I noticed lot of comedy fits around, true), there is no way in hell a simple approach with single ship will work against it. Against any single opponent, no matter if fight starts at 0 or 30 km, bhaal will end up dictating range and will, in a very unlikely case of finding itself on a losing end, be able to simply walk away.
Originally by: Harotak If I had a Bhaal I wouldn't want three heavy neuts; I would bring one heavy for hitting stuff at range and then two mediums for the faster cycle time.
This is so incredibly stupid.
The one way which I thought of would involve a machariel, and would require the machariel to make some very delicate decision making. Trick would be to wear the bhaal down from outside web and scorch range, while somehow keeping it interested, meaning not simply hanging around 80km distance, otherwise the bhaal will very early realise there's nothing he can do and leave. So dance from about 45 to 60km, hanging around 60 more often to evade scorch, then when you have it worn out sufficiently go balls deep as close as you can hoping he wont warp off when your point starts turning off. With a bit of luck and good timing it just might die, without warping off. All the rattlesnake, typhoon and similar suggestions are nonsense.
If machariel is plated it might be able to simply overpower the bhaal thanks to higher dps of greatly superior type against armor tank, however in this case bhaal will realise he's losing the straightforward fight very early and will start spamming warp aligned waiting for mach's point to turn off very fast - meaning it will again simply walk away.
It's a tricky question no dobut, and speaking from the other side of the fence, I really can't think of anything else than what I explained above.
EDIT
Branko is right, lachesis or arazu will in fact do it easily provided some very unlikely starting conditions. But on paper, it is true. Following similar logic, damps on mach might make the whole thing much easier, but if we are constructing comedy fits with specific goals of killing the bhaal then let's allow the bhaal to return the favor and comedy fit itself with some sensor boosters or what not in return.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2010.06.02 17:22:00 -
[30]
Guys, one word. . .
Curse
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