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Trebor Daehdoow
Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.06.07 13:07:00 -
[31]
Hmmm...
I like the idea of having a <modifier-key><click> option to toggle overload. Right now I tend to right-click and use the menu just because I miss with the mouse too much.
Some other overload issues that need discussion:
* There is no confirmation that you have actually toggled overload until the start of the next cycle. Possible solution: the small green overload arc segment could turn yellow to indicate what state the module will be in at the start of the next cycle (ie: green = it will be off, yellow = it will be on).
* In the overheat of battle, the difference between small green arc segment (overload off) and small bright green arc segment (overload on) is sometimes easy to miss (esp for those of us with old, tired eyes). Possible solution: the pulsing halo around each module button (green = on, red = deactivating) could be expanded to include yellow ("overloaded")
* Once you have turned on overload, you are committed to 1 cycle -- you can't turn it off until it actually activates. This is a similar issue to Allow reactivation of accidentally deactivated modules (CSM)
I am sure other people have suggestions and comments -- get them in and if a reasonable consensus can be reached, I'll submit it for consideration at an upcoming CSM meeting.
best, Trebor
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Mynxee
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.06.07 14:48:00 -
[32]
Definitely supported! I've mistakenly clicked (or failed to click) that sliver of a "button" too many times to count.
Life In Low Sec |
Sujanra Acoma
Shadow Kitty Legion
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Posted - 2010.06.07 15:01:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Hmmm...
I like the idea of having a <modifier-key><click> option to toggle overload. Right now I tend to right-click and use the menu just because I miss with the mouse too much.
Some other overload issues that need discussion:
* There is no confirmation that you have actually toggled overload until the start of the next cycle. Possible solution: the small green overload arc segment could turn yellow to indicate what state the module will be in at the start of the next cycle (ie: green = it will be off, yellow = it will be on).
* In the overheat of battle, the difference between small green arc segment (overload off) and small bright green arc segment (overload on) is sometimes easy to miss (esp for those of us with old, tired eyes). Possible solution: the pulsing halo around each module button (green = on, red = deactivating) could be expanded to include yellow ("overloaded")
* Once you have turned on overload, you are committed to 1 cycle -- you can't turn it off until it actually activates. This is a similar issue to Allow reactivation of accidentally deactivated modules (CSM)
I am sure other people have suggestions and comments -- get them in and if a reasonable consensus can be reached, I'll submit it for consideration at an upcoming CSM meeting.
best, Trebor
I agree with every one of these points.
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Cerpn Taxt
LDK
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Posted - 2010.06.07 15:08:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Cerpn Taxt on 07/06/2010 15:08:40 Definitely signed !! my dream would come true :) |
z0de
The Bastards The Tusker Bastards
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Posted - 2010.06.07 15:12:00 -
[35]
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Laxyr
Chamsin Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.06.07 15:19:00 -
[36]
I'm always for UI improvements.
Lax
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.06.07 18:43:00 -
[37]
Nothing more annoying than having something that deserves a "big red panic button" be more of a tiny sliver. The skill of using overheat is more in being able to click the button and less knowing when to click it.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Radgette
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Posted - 2010.06.07 22:28:00 -
[38]
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2010.06.08 01:04:00 -
[39]
I have been doing some more research on this, and have come up with a draft issue proposal for comments. The big change is that I realized the proposal should be careful to address the needs of color-blind players -- if there are any color-blind players reading this thread, please let me know if the changes are appropriate! This is in wiki format:
== Summary ==
Overloading modules is a crucial PVP game-mechanic, but the current User Interface is difficult to operate and error-prone.
* Unless a keyboard shortcut is used, activating overload requires either clicking a tiny area at the top of a module button, or accessing a contextual menu. Both of these methods are error-prone and can easily result in the module becoming deactivated.
* Once overload has been toggled (either on, or off), there is no visual indication that the command has been accepted until the start of the next cycle. Additionally, an erroneous command cannot be corrected until after the start of the next cycle.
* The overload activation cue is just the change in the intensity of the color of the small overload activation area at the top of the module button. It is needlessly difficult to determine the state of the module.
In addition to the difficulties faced by all players in managing overloading, players who are color-blind face particular challenges in effectively using the module buttons, because they have difficulty distinguishing between red and green hues, which are used in the pulsing halos that surround activated modules.
== Solution ==
The current colors associated with module buttons are green and red.
According to information on [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness], purple is visually distinguishable from green and red by all dichromatically color-blind individuals, although many of these persons will already have trouble distinguishing between green and red. However, since green and red are appropriate color cues for people with normal trichromatic color vision, these should not be changed.
We therefore propose that the UI provide not only additional chromatic but also temporal cues as to the state of a module, as follows:
* Module overload should also be toggleable by using a modified-click (such as shift-click).
* An activated module has a halo that pulses green (no change from present state).
* An activated module that is currently overloaded has a halo that pulses purple. The color change of the current (tiny) overheat activation area from green to bright green should be changed to be from green to purple.
* An activated module that will become deactivated at the end of the current cycle has a halo that pulses red, but pulses faster than the current rate.
* An activated module that will become overloaded at the start of the next cycle has a halo that pulses green, then purple, and pulses faster than the current rate.
* We also recommend that issue [[Allow_reactivation_of_accidentally_deactivated_modules_%28CSM%29]] also be implemented in conjunction with this change, and be expanded to permit mistaken overload activations and deactivations to be corrected without wasting a cycle.
== Pros ==
* Improved user interface for PVP.
* Improved accessibility for color-blind players.
== Cons ==
* No obvious issues.
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Cerpn Taxt
Minmatar LDK
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Posted - 2010.06.08 03:46:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Cerpn Taxt on 08/06/2010 03:52:36 Sounds good. :)
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.06.08 03:54:00 -
[41]
Sounds good but I'd still like to see a bigger or more click friendly overload button be part of the solutions you listed. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Cerpn Taxt
Minmatar LDK
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Posted - 2010.06.08 04:23:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jin Nib Sounds good but I'd still like to see a bigger or more click friendly overload button be part of the solutions you listed.
The proposed shift(ctrl/alt)-click method kind of eliminates the need of buttons, providing cleaner interface, in addition, it would prevent accidental overloading (which happens also, because the overload button is directly on top of the module activation button).
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
* Module overload should also be toggleable by using a modified-click (such as shift-click).
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2010.06.08 09:14:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Jin Nib Sounds good but I'd still like to see a bigger or more click friendly overload button be part of the solutions you listed.
This is an interesting suggestion, actually. Several issues that immediately come to mind (if anyone else has things to add, please do so):
- A larger overload area also means easier to mis-click and activate.
- Changing the general button look means artwork changes (= more work).
- The current overload area is already often partially hidden behind the button type badge (for example, by the ammo of guns). A larger area with the current layout would be more hidden, and so it would be harder to figure out where the click area is.
- On the plus size, a change here could also help those Eve players with physical limitations that make modifier-click combinations difficult to enter.
If you (or anyone else) can come up with a sketch of a button redesign that addresses these issues, then with a little more work this could be added to the proposal. Perhaps things could be worded so that the proposal contains sub-proposals (modifier-click, halo changes, button design changes) which can be independently considered for implementation.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.06.08 09:43:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Jin Nib on 08/06/2010 09:44:08 There is a lot of unused space around the buttons, some of the problems you mentioned about making them bigger could be alleviated through use of that space. For instance the over heating buttons could be a little circle the same size as the rack overheating buttons that is half on half off the module circles at a corner of a circle rather then the top. This would also alleviate the issue of cycle bars occluding the button (or module icons as well which is annoying).
Really I don't think its much work for the art dept. to figure out solutions if they have a guy who can draw concept design for a BS in half an hour. And honestly I wouldn't mind them spending a little time figuring out improvements for the UI regardless of what ever else it is they are doing. If nothing else you can present it and let CCP decide, a hot key or modified click is better then now for sure, but really only goes half way I think. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Ospie
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.06.08 10:05:00 -
[45]
I support some form of improvement to the overheating setup, those proposed by trebor look pretty solid.
It's frustrating when your overheating goes fubar
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Antihrist Pripravnik
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.06.08 10:06:00 -
[46]
UI improvement = automatic support |
Boraf Flux
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Posted - 2010.06.08 12:22:00 -
[47]
Anything that improves the UI (and this would) has my support.
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Glafri
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Posted - 2010.06.08 12:36:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Glafri on 08/06/2010 12:36:39 Anything that improves usability gets my vote. I hate that tiny sliver.
EDIT TO TICK SUPPORT
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.06.08 16:27:00 -
[49]
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2010.06.08 21:34:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Jin Nib For instance the over heating buttons could be a little circle the same size as the rack overheating buttons that is half on half off the module circles at a corner of a circle rather then the top. This would also alleviate the issue of cycle bars occluding the button (or module icons as well which is annoying).
I really like this idea a lot!
I personally would make the overheat buttons as large as possible. They might, for example, modify the button so one quadrant (top-left or top-right?) would be more like the corner of a square, so there's a nice triangular area to click in.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2010.06.08 22:11:00 -
[51]
The CSM proposal is up on the wiki here.
I would appreciate any comments and suggestions, it can still be tweaked for the next 24 hours or so.
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Imigo Montoya
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Posted - 2010.06.08 22:57:00 -
[52]
Supported on the basis of Fitts' Law
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.06.08 23:00:00 -
[53]
I like it, it looks like it covers everything. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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CG Oglethorpe
Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.06.09 02:15:00 -
[54]
Great Idea.
The UI needs to do a better job at providing feedback to the pilot on the status of their ship.
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2010.06.09 05:20:00 -
[55]
Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 09/06/2010 05:19:57
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow If you (or anyone else) can come up with a sketch of a button redesign that addresses these issues, then with a little more work this could be added to the proposal.
I was bored.
(Edit: Forgot the tick.) _
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Jim diGriz
Moustache Twirling Space Cads
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Posted - 2010.06.09 11:53:00 -
[56]
Supported.
If the Overload option was in the middle of the module icon but was given more surface space so it can be clicked without deactivating the module may help.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2010.06.09 16:58:00 -
[57]
And a hot-key combo plz ...
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