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FunzzeR
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.06.04 03:51:00 -
[31]
Originally by: HellSpeed
If anything, STO is a different space MMO. It's really not worth mentioning and comparing it to EVE. Deviana was probably thinking of Infinity: TQFE or JGE.
Because vaporware that has been bantered about forever is going to be any real threat to EVE. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!!
THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!! |
Capt Fossil
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.04 03:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
I was going to blow you but thus stupid thread made me stop. Clearly you don't PVP. Just stop posting. I am the the King Ganker! I love your Meat Sausage!
Bellum needs more free Cosmos fools. Actually EVE needs less Bellum's. If it is to progress at all.
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SomebodyKickedMyDog
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2010.06.04 04:44:00 -
[33]
the problem with pvp is that most pvpers/pirates are carebears who are too scared to engage if it's at all challenging.
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Sisohiv
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:39:00 -
[34]
I dont find its the time involved that makes PvP in EvE so corny. I've had long battles and insta pops. The thing I find is, its futile. I can with 100% accuracy determine if I will win or lose before the locks are made. |
Aeternus IV
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:53:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sisohiv I dont find its the time involved that makes PvP in EvE so corny. I've had long battles and insta pops. The thing I find is, its futile. I can with 100% accuracy determine if I will win or lose before the locks are made.
This. ^^ If you have a scout.. you'll know if you're about to run into something. You'll know what they have and what you have. Most pvp'ers knows what they can and can't take... its the people who know they'll get ****ed but still engage for the fun of taking someone with them (hopefully), that I consider a true pvp'er. look at my killboard stats.. i die all the time, but I still have fun. :)
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Carla Messer
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Posted - 2010.06.04 05:58:00 -
[36]
It sucks because you were too chicken **** to attack the bait drake so that we could hotdrop you with the 2 super carriers and 20 battleships.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.04 06:06:00 -
[37]
While HP upgrade isnt the solution, good points have been made here imo. Fights are over very quickly compared to time to get them, especially good fights, and while not always, a vast majority of the fights have nothing to do with a fight but are just easy killmails.
Something like the, hated, combat simulator ccp wanted to introduce would help, but i guess it is hated too much (this could be implemented with risk, so if you get blown up there you lose your modules). I understand why people didnt like the idea, but still imo advantages outweigh the disadvantages, will never happen though.
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Lt Angus
Caldari the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.06.04 06:21:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Killer Gandry People claiming EVE is a PvP game should rub their beedy little eyes a tad.
2 most common "PvP" fights are:
The Blob: This ain't PvP, this is shooting with nukes into a barrel to kill the tadpoles swimming in it.
The Gank: The PvP fitted pray on the none PvP fitted. Preferably in easy gankable ships.
Come back when you do real PvP and not the 2 above. That's scared kids stuff or wannabe boasters how l33t they are but when looking at their KB stats you see they mainly have groupkills on single or dual team targets.
The fact your 150+ gatecamp killed off 25 people passing by doesn't make you l33t. It actually makes you even more boring than a miner who sucks on a roid for hours.
"real pvp" I know I dont have to explain how dumb that is please resize your signature to the maximum allowed file size of 24000 bytes. Navigator Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers |
Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.06.04 06:35:00 -
[39]
Why don't you people just sit in local and ask for 1v1's in some tradehub?
Looking for something to fight for hours, dodging blobs, moving on, legging it from gatecamps etc. and in the end finding someone and get the kill, is what makes eve so much more rewarding than any arena based pvp. If you can't stand having to be patient and pick your fights, EVE is not the game for you.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.04 06:46:00 -
[40]
Quote: Looking for something to fight for hours,[...] is what makes eve so much more rewarding
Really?
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Ran Khanon
Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
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Posted - 2010.06.04 07:01:00 -
[41]
I think EHP is pretty balanced out within classes and 1 vs. 1's can last a good while if both pilots know what they are doing.
Also you can't really complain about the short duration of a fight if one side eclipses the other one by ship type / numbers / or the 'perfect' fit for the situation.
And if you want a really long fight, try a T1 pvp fitted industrial 1 vs. 1 :)
Help us to make parrots game related today! |
Wild3Hunter
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Posted - 2010.06.04 07:42:00 -
[42]
More EHP on ships, more blobs, same results. Even worse, more EHP means u can get RR help from some neut just in time.
We need mechanic that will limit hostile locks on u. So, only 2 ppl can shoot on your frig at the same time. If third comes shooting u, all three shooters gain a tracking/explosion velocity penalty from w/e waves they are causing to your ship when shot.
Give us pvp arenas with locking warpgates.
Originally by: Khors Why don't you people just sit in local and ask for 1v1's in some tradehub?
Yes, since there are no blobs or neut RR, right?
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zombiedeadhead
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.06.04 07:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Wild3Hunter
We need mechanic that will limit hostile locks on u. So, only 2 ppl can shoot on your frig at the same time. If third comes shooting u, all three shooters gain a tracking/explosion velocity penalty from w/e waves they are causing to your ship when shot.
Give us pvp arenas with locking warpgates.
GET OUT
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Natalie Caladan
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:04:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Natalie Caladan on 04/06/2010 08:05:21
Originally by: Sergei Le'Poof PVP fights in Eve are very short. You spend 1-2 hours to get a fight and then it is over in 1-2 minutes.
You're actually complaining about the lack of PvP options, not about how fast a fight lasts.
EVE doesn't have arena or organized team vs team pvp. In most cases one of the groups involved is either outclassed and outnumbered, and in both cases the fight isn't what you'd call challenging.
What I wonder about is why the PvP people complain about "carebears not wanting to come to lowsec". I mean: can't pirates fight each other all day long, 23/7? After all they all want a good PvP fight so what's the problem? A carebear with PvE setup isn't a challenge at all? No more waiting 1-2 hours but all the action you want as long as you want!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:29:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Tippia on 04/06/2010 08:31:07
Originally by: Killer Gandry People claiming EVE is a PvP game should rub their beedy little eyes a tad.
Your problem is that you've equated "PvP" to "ship duels". That's a problem with your expectations, not with how PvP in EVE works.
Originally by: Natalie Caladan I mean: can't pirates fight each other all day long, 23/7? After all they all want a good PvP fight so what's the problem? A carebear with PvE setup isn't a challenge at all?
Not enough money in it, I'd imagine. A normal PvE setup has juicier loot and the pilot is more likely to pay ransom for his release. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Nikkelarse
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:32:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Wild3Hunter More EHP on ships, more blobs, same results. Even worse, more EHP means u can get RR help from some neut just in time.
We need mechanic that will limit hostile locks on u. So, only 2 ppl can shoot on your frig at the same time. If third comes shooting u, all three shooters gain a tracking/explosion velocity penalty from w/e waves they are causing to your ship when shot.
Give us pvp arenas with locking warpgates.
Originally by: Khors Why don't you people just sit in local and ask for 1v1's in some tradehub?
Yes, since there are no blobs or neut RR, right?
Would be interesting - if you wanted more people to lock onto a ship then you would need a ship with sensor boosters or something. IT would make fleet battles very interesting. (3 locks would be better though)
I also like the idea of shield mitigation like sins of a solar empire, this has been needed for sometime and makes perfect sense.
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Wonator
Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.04 08:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Wild3Hunter More EHP on ships, more blobs, same results. Even worse, more EHP means u can get RR help from some neut just in time.
We need mechanic that will limit hostile locks on u. So, only 2 ppl can shoot on your frig at the same time. If third comes shooting u, all three shooters gain a tracking/explosion velocity penalty from w/e waves they are causing to your ship when shot.
Give us pvp arenas with locking warpgates.
Originally by: Khors Why don't you people just sit in local and ask for 1v1's in some tradehub?
Yes, since there are no blobs or neut RR, right?
GTFO Back to WoW.
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PeHD0M
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Posted - 2010.06.04 09:47:00 -
[48]
EVE pvp combat sucks, because it is: - HUGE time sink - most fights are PvPPPPvL (player vs players vs lag) or BvBvL (blob vs blob vs lag) wich are not really fun imo - usually pointless, just for the sake of pew-pew
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.04 10:18:00 -
[49]
STO has some interesting ideas, but the game was obviously half baked when released. CCPs advantage for years was that almost no sci-fi MMORPG were released and of the new releases everyone was trying to copy the success and the gameplay of WoW which did not work out. EVE had and still has the advantage of a comportable niche but that might change in the future, or maybe not, we will have to see.
The main problem of EVE is still the blob. If it is a good idea to have one Rook or Falcon in your Fleet, why not 2 or 3 or maybe 10 if you can bring the numbers. That is also true with individual ships. Passive shield tanks kill what is left of small gang warfare since these tanks by itself require a blob to take down.
Or regarding damage, if it is effective to let 10 ships fire on a target why not 50 or 100? This is the problem of scale that EVE has that cannot be fixed until the game mechanics as a whole are changed and I doubt that CCP would take that risk.
Personally I would recommend to stacking nerf everything from damage, to EW to remote repair on a fleet level and at the same time to improve the fleet interface so that fleet formations are possible and much better coordination on a squad and wing level. The basic idea would be to have no more then 5 units fire on an individual target. But to make this happen a lot of mechanics would also have to be changed, including individual tanks, remote repair and all forms of EW.
Before you start to flame me, I think it would be a good idea on paper, but there are a lot of details to work out but one way or another, I doubt this will ever happen, so enjoy your ever growing blobs and ganks.
Quote: Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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FarmerCounter
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Posted - 2010.06.04 11:16:00 -
[50]
Waiting if that is not a first-person shooting game.
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Kal Murmur
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Posted - 2010.06.04 14:24:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Aqriue EVE PVP takes to long to set up (roams, gate camps), takes to long to kill something with tens of thousands of hitpoints, and is a slow, laggy version of CounterStrike because there is no actual tactical/strategic fight between ships: lock, point, web, F1, orbit.
You're doing it wrong.
Originally by: Sisohiv I dont find its the time involved that makes PvP in EvE so corny. I've had long battles and insta pops. The thing I find is, its futile. I can with 100% accuracy determine if I will win or lose before the locks are made.
No you can't. I have several corpmate's that regularly take on and beat 2-4 opponents solo. Using the same ship and fitting, I would certainly die. There's a whole level of tactical flying that everyone seems to either forget about, or just not know about. Maybe if people concentrated a bit more on learning what can really be done with an Eve ship and a bit less time wanting to nerf stuff, we might be a more satisfied, happy bunch. ;)
Just a quick clarification btw, this post isnt an 'omg, I'm so l33t!' one. I don't know how the hell some of the best pvp pilots in Eve do the stuff they do and I certainly can't do it myself, but its damn impressive to watch and I'm happy to (slowly) pick up as much of it as I can. It just seems a shame that so few people seem to be willing to spend the time learning the advanced techniques, and fall into the old trap of thinking there's nothing there beyond 'lock, point, web, F1, orbit'.
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Janatheth
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Posted - 2010.06.04 14:52:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Misstress Iteron
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon ...when the next generation of space based MMORPG are released.
You mean games such as STO?
I lol'd.
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Ilik Tanikalot
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Posted - 2010.06.04 15:50:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kal Murmur
What she said. Takes time and work. Just be prepared to lose a lot at first and take more risks to see where you can improve. Manual didn't say it'd be easy.
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar Blacklight Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.06.04 16:03:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Misstress Iteron
Originally by: Deviana Sevidon PvP sucks indeed because in EVE it encourages blobbing. As long as the mechanics from tanking to damage and EW that biggers numbers always win.
CCP can also not fix things, because it would alienate all the players who prefer the ganking style. So right now the situation with CCP and EVE can only be described as FUBAR and chances are high that EVE will suffer a massive loss in subscription numbers when the next generation of space based MMORPG are released.
You mean games such as STO?
^ ^ ^ ^ I lolz'd!
(comments expressed here may not reflect those of Blacklight Inc.) |
Korin DoomsDay
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Posted - 2010.06.04 17:56:00 -
[55]
There's actually nothing inherently wrong with "blobbing". It happens in real life as well, if you can gather enough people via diplomacy on your side = you win (most of the time). Eve is more about diplomacy than 1on1 skills IMO.
Take world of warcraft for example, there they have "fixed" the game so that there's almost no ganking, the pvp is all about arenas and battlegrounds where the numbers are fair. The problem with this approach is the pvp there is pretty mindless, it's just about who's practiced more at clicking buttons or is better at micromanaging skills and cooldowns, very little diplomacy and human interaction involved in the long run.
There is of course no right or wrong approach here, just what you prefer. And in a space game, I'd much rather have the freedom that allows "blobbing" than being put into some arena or battleground where a "fair number of people" are pitted against each other.
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Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.04 18:19:00 -
[56]
Muahaha hull tanking Domi will be king! However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.06.04 18:43:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Sergei Le'Poof PVP fights in Eve are very short. You spend 1-2 hours to get a fight and then it is over in 1-2 minutes. I think this is out of proportion and does not allow several strategic factors to play a role such cap stability and active tanking to just name two.
you're doing it wrong.
I once had a 1vs1 fight that took over FOUR HOURS.
granted it was a chase thru multiple systems, with several small encounters inbetween with the very same person, but it was an engagement.
---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.06.04 19:07:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Sergei Le'Poof PVP fights in Eve are very short. You spend 1-2 hours to get a fight and then it is over in 1-2 minutes. I think this is out of proportion and does not allow several strategic factors to play a role such cap stability and active tanking to just name two.
you're doing it wrong.
I once had a 1vs1 fight that took over FOUR HOURS.
granted it was a chase thru multiple systems, with several small encounters inbetween with the very same person, but it was an engagement.
And I once had a 1v1 lasting over 9000 hours.
That is about as relevant, a normal (solo/few people) pvp fight will be over in 1-3 minutes, and that is excluding all ganks which are over even faster.
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ViolentDesire
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Posted - 2010.06.04 19:46:00 -
[59]
Fights turn into pvpppp because people don't like losing and most of the time they are basically one way tickets. That's why dramiels, vagas and cynabals are so popular - people like being able to get the **** out. Points and webs are part of the problem. But CCP cant fix it because any fix would mean serious changes and most likely introduce more lag (if they were to add hit boxes and the ability to disable ships to prevent warp out, etc). So, CCP have painted themselves into a corner and that's it for Eve.
Then of course there is the overly simplistic aspect of fighting: the overview shows everything not cloaked that's on grid (so no hiding behind roids, moons or what have you), you cant do **** to ships in warp, very few places in systems to fight at (gate, station, roidbelt), space between systems is nonexistent because of gates - so no scanning down ships that are actually going somewhere, etc.
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Sisohiv
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Posted - 2010.06.04 20:04:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kal Murmur
Originally by: Sisohiv I dont find its the time involved that makes PvP in EvE so corny. I've had long battles and insta pops. The thing I find is, its futile. I can with 100% accuracy determine if I will win or lose before the locks are made.
No you can't. I have several corpmate's that regularly take on and beat 2-4 opponents solo. Using the same ship and fitting, I would certainly die. There's a whole level of tactical flying that everyone seems to either forget about, or just not know about. Maybe if people concentrated a bit more on learning what can really be done with an Eve ship and a bit less time wanting to nerf stuff, we might be a more satisfied, happy bunch. ;)
Just a quick clarification btw, this post isnt an 'omg, I'm so l33t!' one. I don't know how the hell some of the best pvp pilots in Eve do the stuff they do and I certainly can't do it myself, but its damn impressive to watch and I'm happy to (slowly) pick up as much of it as I can. It just seems a shame that so few people seem to be willing to spend the time learning the advanced techniques, and fall into the old trap of thinking there's nothing there beyond 'lock, point, web, F1, orbit'.
It's knowing your ships, knowing thier ships. Knowing ships in EvE.
I hate to bust your bubble but I know ships in EvE. I know what a ceptor does, I know what a Vaga will beat. Putting words in my mouth might make you look like you have proven me wrong or something but I never said you couldnt beat larger numbers. My most 'epic' fight was against 8 carebears who came to null with T1 rat fit frigates. I murdered them. I knew I would too. Because it was 8 vs 1 I knew they wouldnt run away and I knew they couldnt beat me.
The average 1 v. 1 or 2 v 1 or 4 v 4 ends in run and dock or one loss and the rest bail. Its more than just point click and orbit but its still not hard to know what ships in EvE were designed to do. I stand by what I said. PvP is 100% predictable. |
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