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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
1
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Posted - 2012.07.16 00:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I mean realy
why shouldnt every faction fit battleship pilot in anymajor lv4 hub every have to risk loseing it anyways
It a great idea to have them just call in all of local to save there butt becasue thay made a ******** misstake with there billions of isk faction battleship
but hey its not there falt thay opend fire on a merlin and the merlin won was it
At not point was there anyway for them to know in there time playing eve online that mabye just mabye shooting at the guy stealing from your wrecks was a bad idea
its kinda like a jump bridge in null suck whan the titan jumps itself insteed of the fleet its deffently not the titans ******** action that was the problem
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Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
1
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Posted - 2012.07.16 01:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
[/quote]
I'm a bit new here, but since noone else is answering your question I will chime in.
I believe what people are refering to as "highsec PVP" is the practive known as "can flipping" in which a player steals another players cargo and hopes they are ignorant in the rule mechancis and fire back so the "can flipper" can enact revenge and blow up the offending player.
I believe this to be different than old fashioned "ore thievery" in which the suspect is actually trying to get away with the ore and not nessessarily blow up the other player's ship.
I could be wrong, but I believe that is what is being refered to as "highsec PVP".[/quote]
There are 4 types of pvp in highsec as i currently stands
1 wardecs 2 sucide ganking 3 Can baiting / fliping 4 Corp pvp |
Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
1
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Posted - 2012.07.16 01:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Having a global "vigilante" flag doesn't seem like a good option to us, because it allows you to then undock your thirty suspect-flagged associates and gank them, which is not the effect we're looking for here, and allowing transitive individual kill rights takes us back to square one.
As to "invicible logis", in the current design yes, that is the case, but only in the scenario where you've already done something to become a suspect. There's a point at which we have to say "look, you've done something 'illegal', this fight isn't going to be fair, sorry" if we want to avoid the complexity of the current system.
With the things that will get you into this state in the first place (such as neutrals repping war targets), we're deliberately giving you the ability to do the "bad thing" and take a hit for it rather than simply mechanically banning it, because that's the way we like to do things round here. There does however come a point where we're bending so far over backwards to make the consequences of doing the "bad thing" fair that we have to either stand up or fall over, and in these cases we're currently leaning towards saying "if you don't enjoy it, maybe you should consider not getting into that situation so often in the first place". Id like to see it where the neutral repper becomes free to kill for involving themself in the fight LIKE IN EVERY OTHER MMO (that I know of anyways) Take WoW (ugh first thing I thought of off the top of my head) you see a fight (on a non PVP server and/or in your faction held area - then again this is several tears ago, may be different now), youre a healer, the guy getting his ass handed to him is a friend, so you start throwing heals on him. THAT PVP FLAGS YOU It SHOULD here too. Given the cold, harsh universe idea lol Or would that make it too "fair"?
it is here logi currently gains any and all agression applyed to the person he / she is repping |
Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
1
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Posted - 2012.07.16 01:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Grinder2210 wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Having a global "vigilante" flag doesn't seem like a good option to us, because it allows you to then undock your thirty suspect-flagged associates and gank them, which is not the effect we're looking for here, and allowing transitive individual kill rights takes us back to square one.
As to "invicible logis", in the current design yes, that is the case, but only in the scenario where you've already done something to become a suspect. There's a point at which we have to say "look, you've done something 'illegal', this fight isn't going to be fair, sorry" if we want to avoid the complexity of the current system.
With the things that will get you into this state in the first place (such as neutrals repping war targets), we're deliberately giving you the ability to do the "bad thing" and take a hit for it rather than simply mechanically banning it, because that's the way we like to do things round here. There does however come a point where we're bending so far over backwards to make the consequences of doing the "bad thing" fair that we have to either stand up or fall over, and in these cases we're currently leaning towards saying "if you don't enjoy it, maybe you should consider not getting into that situation so often in the first place". Id like to see it where the neutral repper becomes free to kill for involving themself in the fight LIKE IN EVERY OTHER MMO (that I know of anyways) Take WoW (ugh first thing I thought of off the top of my head) you see a fight (on a non PVP server and/or in your faction held area - then again this is several tears ago, may be different now), youre a healer, the guy getting his ass handed to him is a friend, so you start throwing heals on him. THAT PVP FLAGS YOU It SHOULD here too. Given the cold, harsh universe idea lol Or would that make it too "fair"? it is here logi currently gains any and all agression applyed to the person he / she is repping
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Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
1
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Posted - 2012.07.16 01:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
EpicFailTroll wrote:I for one endorse this meta griefing of highsec griefers
Crap you guys made me let my nuet probing alts probes expire |
Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
1
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Posted - 2012.07.16 01:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote: Grinder also missed ninja salvaging as well as intentionally putting out "fight" cans to cause engagements of varying scales. Can flipping, remote repping for aggro, can baiting and "fight" cans can all be put under the general label of "Intentionally gaining an aggression countdown so that an individual or members of a corporation or alliance can shoot you".
Funniest thing I ever had happen to me was missioning, a ninja salvager came in, started his thing. This was a mission called "pot meet kettle" where you shoot mines that spawn rogue drones (but where it also does damage apparently to everyone/everything in the pocket). He jumped in, I blew up like 4 to 6 mines and killed his ship, he warped out, came back in a Tengu, fired on me and got CONCORDED then started bitching in local about how I fired on him and was a cheating hacker.
you know this is half i what i just cant rap my head around here .... guy in your story screwd up its pritty funny in fact a very long time ago i lost a ship to what was mostlikely the same mission
i see the rules as clear defined i think there understood widely by most players in eve as thay stand
I understand the need to reduce load on the server i even get the idea that sometimes agression chains get a bit complex but it works its worked for a long time
if theres any problem here its that most players dont seem to take the time to learn how it works untill its allready to late for them and thay have filed there petitions to ccp crying about the cheaters who resently did something thay didnt bother to take the time needed to fully understand to begin with |
Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
2
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Posted - 2012.07.16 12:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
May as well say it CCP hates unconsentual pvp
Carebears online yea! |
Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
2
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Posted - 2012.07.16 13:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:dexington wrote:Grinder2210 wrote:May as well say it CCP hates unconsentual pvp Carebears online yea! It's no problem to engage in unconsentual pvp, in hi-sec it just has consequences. If you for whatever reason don't like the pvp rules in hi-sec, you have low/null-sec where you can engage in all the unconsentual pvp you want, without any added consequences. The problem with low/null is that there you may end up as the "nonconsensual" participant in PvP. See, most folks only want nonconsensual anything when they are the aggressors, not recipients...
Low and null sec pvp in never unconsensual
if you belave it is exit than jump back threw a gate and read the huge worning given to you before entering theses areas of space |
Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
2
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Posted - 2012.07.16 13:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
dexington wrote:Grinder2210 wrote:May as well say it CCP hates unconsentual pvp Carebears online yea! It's no problem to engage in unconsentual pvp, in hi-sec it just has consequences. If you for whatever reason don't like the pvp rules in hi-sec, you have low/null-sec where you can engage in all the unconsentual pvp you want, without any added consequences.
fact is i dont even mind half the ideas being put up buy ccp thow i belave there not very well thought out as thay stand Currently from what grayscale has said this system will forse anyone who engages in unconsentual pvp out of hs over time while leaveing behind all mission runners to keep liveing in hs safely without fear of any consequences for there carebearing ways sucide ganks aside of corse
Dont cearbearing mission running guys disurve to be killed i for one think thay disurve warm hugs form my missles on a stady baisis |
Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
2
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Posted - 2012.07.16 13:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Grinder2210 wrote:Currently from what grayscale has said this system will forse anyone who engages in unconsentual pvp out of hs over time while leaveing behind all mission runners to keep liveing in hs safely without fear of any consequences for there carebearing ways sucide ganks aside of corse He said nothing of the kind, so no.
What happens whan your sec standings gets under -2?
It may not have been said word for word but its what will happen |
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Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
2
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Posted - 2012.07.16 13:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:player ecosystem.
As to can-flipping in particular, this is something that we assume will become largely ineffective with the "safeties" system, which should hopefully lessen the usability issues which are at the root of this gimmick. People losing out because they made a bad decision is great. People losing out because they didn't fully understand the decision they were making is not ideal. We realize that, for people who've dedicated a portion of their careers to "hisec PvP" of this particular stripe, this will be disruptive to their play experience, but given that there are plenty of other forms of PvP available (many of which incidentally end up generating a much stronger net contribution to the game), we're confident that such players are more than capable of transitioning rapidly to other, more robustly-supported occupations.
Can Fliping by and large being the only way to ever gain agression on shiny ships missioning in high sec its just seem like your giveing a free pass these players |
Grinder2210
Kaotic Intentions Cold Hand of Shadow
2
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Posted - 2012.07.16 13:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Tippia wrote:[quote=Vol Arm'OOO]So your saying that your eliminating one of the four pillars of empire pvp and are replacing it with what? Or are you saying that pvp in empire is simply not allowed outside of suciding and war decs? I don't think he's saying either of those. What pillar is being removed? There are only four ways of getting pvp in empire - can flipping, suiciding, ninja salvaging and war dec. He is saying that can flipping is being eliminated.
pritty much Canfliping gone ninja salvaging still around but only if your trying to salvage wrecks for profit
Wardecs have allready been messed with in such a way there there not nearly as vilable in hs
Sucide ganks Still ok and with Tere 3 battle cruisers a lot easyer win for sucide ganking |
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