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Rudolf Wagner
The All Systems Commonwealth United Sovereigns Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.07.15 18:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi. Recently I received a Harbinger, my first battlecruiser. I am mostly going to do PVE with it, but I am curious as to how good this ship fares in (solo) PVP compared to the other factions' tier 1 and tier 2 battlecruisers. What are the Harbinger's advantages and disadvantages compared to other battlecruisers? Is the Prophecy good as well?
Thanks in advance. |
Smalltimer
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.07.15 18:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'd first ask what BC you're thinking about going against.
ie. I've used the Harbinger in numerous PVP scenario's with other BC's and found the ship performed very well. Though it all comes down to fit and preparation. Which I don't believe to be an very accurate reflection of unplanned PVP. That being said, the Harbinger has a generous drone bay which can give it an edge in most fights.
My favorite PVP setup consists of two neuts, specific hardeners with a repper and a MWD producing 11000 m/s. Which is plenty to cope with even the toughest of foes. Granted, it isn't always a win, though its guaranteed to keep most opponents on their toes.
Hope this helps. |
Noisrevbus
164
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Posted - 2012.07.15 18:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Prophecy have always been a clumsy, high-defensive yet low-offensive ship mainly used for auxilery roles - such as bait. It has never really been a mainline ship as far back as i can remember.
The Harbinger is much better allround but have been suffering a little bit lately because what it does have fallen out of trend. One of the appealing things about Harbies in the past was it's ability to adapt to different gangs and be effective in many different setups.
It's demise in popularity is multifold as well, in part the buffs to Projectiles have both made them very popular allround and the changes to falloff on tracking modules have particularily made them overstep Laser niche of midrange projection. More ships have appeared with popularity in the mid- to longrange distances making lighter kiting gangs, where Harbingers once were one of the most popular BC used as fire support, less popular overall. On a more sluggish setup the Harbinger also meet issues with being far more volatile than Minmatar options, as the game has been driven over more into control in that area of the game, while the Projectiles are close enough to Lasers to appeal in ease of application.
In short: - Alpha profiling over precision DPS as scale grow (and overall profiling of larger gangs). - Barrage stepping into Scorch distance, with powerful optional ammo. - Overall decline of "Nano" and "semi-Snipers" (where Amarr Cruiser and BC had appeal). - Overall trending of Sniping, BS-blap and "tank-Snipe" (where Amarr BS still have alot of appeal). - With less snap at smaller scale the cap- and utility issues plus smaller buffers begin to lose ground.
Overall the Harbinger is still a good ship. Capable as a nano-midrange kiter in shield with Pulse, as a support-sniper with Beams or as a midrange brawler- or brawling support in an armor tank with Pulse. It just doesn't excel in the environment that is currently trending, and have stood alot to lose with changes and continued trends in recent years.
Amarr have always been a bit more about larger ships, but right now the race clearly have better appeal in BS and Capitals, where they still arguable are the best allround. |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
303
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Posted - 2012.07.15 20:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
How does it compare to a Hurricane? On first glance, they look similar. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
197
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Posted - 2012.07.15 21:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Winmatar battlecruisers are superior and way more versatile.
Sorry but its a fact. |
Kalli Brixzat
70
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Posted - 2012.07.16 01:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:How does it compare to a Hurricane? On first glance, they look similar.
A pulse Harby and A/C 'Cane "play" very similarly, but - assuming identical skills - a properly fitted 'Cane will outperform a Harby every day, and twice on Sunday.
That said, the Harby can be fitted in unconventional ways, making it a superior choice under certain circumstances. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1054
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Posted - 2012.07.16 03:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Harby is goon. Has the expected drawbacks of laser boats.
The Proph is good as bait, though since it is expected to be either a bait or a noob, your mileage may vary. |
Otto Weston
Angry Baby Seals
4
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Posted - 2012.07.16 09:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Harby once was my favourite BC... used it all the time, one on one with anything BC sized and it has a more than good chance of coming out victorious. 600 DPS, neut, 70k EHP very good stats.
Harby Vs Hurricane (if he has nuets, u need to worry in the Harb as he may cap out ur guns, but good cap management and booster management and u can still win) (if he's kiting, arty style, you're pretty much ******, you may be able to scare him off with scorch though)
Harby Vs Drake (I've never fought a Drake that got me past 3/4 armour before I killed him, and only once have I had to O/H my guns to break the tank of one)
Harby Vs Myrmidon (If he's dual repper or more, expect a tough fight... I have a neut on my harb and usually that's enough to neut out a Myrm to kill it, sometimes though, they've cap managed very well and killed me)
Harb Vs Harb.... really down to who has more experience / sp.
Harby Vs Cyclone (if he's kiting, use scorch, try to scare him off. If he's not kiting, he's ******)
Harby Vs Ferox (They can get you to low armour, but due to dealing EM + Therm, you can usually burn through them before they kill you.
Harby versus Brutix (Brutix doesn't stand a chance. They'll get you to low armour if they're lucky.)
Harby versus Prophecy (never engage, it's bait)
Versus the new T3 BC's - If they're kiting/ranged you're ******... try to escape if they're out of disrupt range, otherwise try self destructing before they kill you. Tornado, Oracle and Naga are ranged boats.
Harb Vs Talos (Very, very, very close. The battle leans in favour towards the person with more SP or more experience with their chosen boat. I've only fought two, one loss, one victory, both battles were close and we were both in structure.)
Everything's Air Droppable at least once. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
251
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Posted - 2012.07.16 09:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:Winmatar battlecruisers are superior and way more versatile.
Sorry but its a fact.
this. pretty much anything you would want to do in a BC, a cane will do better than a harbi
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Cpt Branko
Zawa's Fan Club
15
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Posted - 2012.07.16 10:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hurricane and Drake are the best BCs, but the Harbinger isn't that far off (unless you consider larger scale fights in which Drake is just better).
That said, the Harbinger isn't bad, and actually the much-touted AC shield Hurricane if fit with shield will have a hard time vs a shield-Harbinger, depending on starting ranges and such, simply the Harbinger has very effective damage types vs shield and lots of range for a medium-sized ship (in a shield fit, at least).
As a general purpose ship it's quite good. |
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Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
304
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Posted - 2012.07.16 12:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
The biggest issue would be damage selection, no?
Seeing how it is pretty much non-existent on the Harbinger. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
179
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Posted - 2012.07.16 12:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:The biggest issue would be damage selection, no?
Seeing how it is pretty much non-existent on the Harbinger.
It's more like Noisrevbus said. The Harbinger is good, but autocannons were overbuffed and have such a good damage projection that the Hurricane isn't far behind when it comes to mid-range dps. Then add the numerous other advantages of the Hurricane (higher speed, selectable damage types, double neuts, capless weapons) and it just becomes an overall better ship. |
Noisrevbus
164
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Posted - 2012.07.16 12:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:The biggest issue would be damage selection, no?
Seeing how it is pretty much non-existent on the Harbinger.
The Harbinger actually have a pretty decent damage selection.
The biggest issue is the looming death of roaming PvP (and corporation sized multi-region content).
The most severe actual change is the introduction of Tier 3 BC that entirely poop over all other BC configurations (nano, armor, 70km sniping).
The whole Minmatar thing is just adding insult to injury within the class - but the class as a whole is facing much severe outside pressure and the Hurricane is equally affected by that and relegated to peripheral roles. |
Danny John-Peter
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
110
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Posted - 2012.07.16 13:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:Winmatar battlecruisers are superior and way more versatile.
Sorry but its a fact.
You my friend are so wrong. |
Traejun DiSanctis
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2012.07.16 16:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:The biggest issue would be damage selection, no?
Seeing how it is pretty much non-existent on the Harbinger.
The Harby, like most Amarr ships, does very well vs. shield tanked boats. Seeing as your average Caldari ship has beefy shields and paper underneath, a Harby can peel through those shields pretty well. Once you're through those, it's pretty much already over. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
107
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Posted - 2012.07.16 17:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
I like the Prophecy for all the reasons listed here. It generally does NOT get primaried because it is a known tank. Low DPS/High Tank should never be called primary. So I sit on the field and keep dealing EM damage to all that get in my range.
Many small fleets have Caldari ships in them. It's nice to grind away with the EM damage and still be considered a non-threat. And if I die....meh, it's a Prophecy..cheap as chips. And my tank may have helped turn the battle if the opposing FC called me early.
On at least 2 occasions, I have been primary, and then they pulled off and switched primary. |
Skelee VI
Wraithguard.
13
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Posted - 2012.07.16 19:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
For solo work, harbinger is decent but not the best. Has dps but it don't have much range compared to a hurricane or drake. That be said all depends on what you are against. If cane gets too close and doesn't have neuts, cya! I usually go heavy pulse shield fit or FMP /armor tank. If you active tank put a cap booster on it just incase you get neuted.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1634
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Posted - 2012.07.16 19:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:I like the Prophecy for all the reasons listed here. It generally does NOT get primaried because it is a known tank. Low DPS/High Tank should never be called primary. So I sit on the field and keep dealing EM damage to all that get in my range.
Many small fleets have Caldari ships in them. It's nice to grind away with the EM damage and still be considered a non-threat. And if I die....meh, it's a Prophecy..cheap as chips. And my tank may have helped turn the battle if the opposing FC called me early.
On at least 2 occasions, I have been primary, and then they pulled off and switched primary.
IIRC you can get ~500 DPS out of a pulse Prophecy with 3 HS. It also makes a great throw away gang booster.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Versuvius Marii
Browncoats of Persephone Ironworks Coalition
129
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Posted - 2012.07.16 20:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Don't use the Prophecy in solo PVP; I've been blueballed many times simply because someone thinks I'm going to drop a waiting fleet on their head. My personal favourite use for a Proph is to slap blasters on them(no damage bonus, so may as well trade in for something that does pain) and put a brick on the accelerator. People never expect a blaster-fit Prophecy... >:D The Gaming MoD - retro to modern, console to MMO, I blog about it if it's a game and I'm interested in it. Yes, I play games other than Eve and I don't care if you think I'm wrong. |
Dato Koppla
The Irken Armada Russian International Allegiance
53
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Posted - 2012.07.17 01:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
There was a 'laser suck' thread recently where the forums discussed various Harb vs Cane situations, even on paper the Cane will come out on top in 90% of the situations (mostly due to ridiculous fitting which allow high end guns + tank + 2 medium neuts) |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
126
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Posted - 2012.07.17 03:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
they call it winmatar, I prefer to think of it as runawaymatar |
warzonetemp
Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji
5
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Posted - 2012.07.17 05:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:There was a 'laser suck' thread recently where the forums discussed various Harb vs Cane situations, even on paper the Cane will come out on top in 90% of the situations (mostly due to ridiculous fitting which allow high end guns + tank + 2 medium neuts)
Hey, now, my thread gave love to the laser/neut boats
The curse to me is one of the few decent and powerful Amarr ships left that will be a match for many BC's, even the new Tier 3's due to the range bonus and potential of the ship. |
Cpt Branko
Zawa's Fan Club
21
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Posted - 2012.07.17 08:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:There was a 'laser suck' thread recently where the forums discussed various Harb vs Cane situations, even on paper the Cane will come out on top in 90% of the situations (mostly due to ridiculous fitting which allow high end guns + tank + 2 medium neuts)
They don't know how to fly their ships, then.
The reason Hurricane is better, is that it has excellent solo fits, as good gang fits as the Harbinger, and has the option of engaging more types targets then the Harbinger can when we discuss soloish situations. It is *better* but not because of some mythical Hurricane vs Harbinger fight always resulting in Hurricane winning.
I mean, realistically you will fly a Harbinger with a shield fit mostly, and that will either successfully run away from most Hurricane fits or force them to run away, provided both pilots are intelligent and do things exactly right. Which is of course mostly not the case. |
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