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SeldonCrisis
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Posted - 2010.06.08 11:18:00 -
[31]
Onry a mwatter of twhym. Ad infinitum.
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Vanakov Mek'lanavar
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.06.08 11:33:00 -
[32]
Let CCP Claw commentate
He has an awesomeness level of 100
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Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
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Posted - 2010.06.08 11:36:00 -
[33]
There are girls? I might actually watch the **** now.
Delenda est achura. |
Julius Rigel
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Posted - 2010.06.08 11:40:00 -
[34]
Dear CCP Navigator,
What was that you were saying about reliability?
xoxo Julius
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Tsang Po
Gallente Aeon Security Force
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Posted - 2010.06.08 11:47:00 -
[35]
There is a Starcraft commentator by the name of "Totalbiscuit" who is by far the best I've ever heard in any venue. He is what AT commentators should aspire to be. Let me break it down:
Good commentators need three things: 1. Be interested. If you're not actually paying attention to what's going on, or get lazy with being aware of everything important that's going on in a match, you're going to sound uninteresting, which brings us to point two... 2. Be interesting. If you sound mundane and boring, nobody is going to like listening to you. If you're interested in what's going on, and sound energetic and engaged with the material, you will be absolutely awesome. Part of that, however, brings us to point three... 3. Know what you're talking about. If you know what's going on, and you know what it means to the game at hand, and most importantly, you're able to communicate it quickly and clearly, you won't sound like a dumbass who isn't paying attention. Knowing the game inside-out also helps inspire personal confidence in what you're talking about, and being able to communicate what you know quickly helps tremendously with points one and two.
It is the holy trinity, the trifecta of commentating matches in any video game and/or sport.
The commentators for the EVE Alliance Tournament seem to only ever get one, maybe two of these at best. They manage to sound boring even when they're interested in what's going on and seem to know what they're talking about. It's horrible, just horrible.
But really? I like that they're there, and I think they have potential. They've managed to do the job so far, but they need to improve. Step up your game, commentators, don't settle for what you're doing being the best that there is... because, as it is in all things, you could be doing a better job. --
By nerds, for nerds: The best blog that you will ever read. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.06.08 11:48:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tsang Po There is a Starcraft commentator by the name of "Totalbiscuit" who is by far the best I've ever heard in any venue. He is what AT commentators should aspire to be. Let me break it down:
àI wonder if it's good old TB from the Planetside daysà ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.08 11:52:00 -
[37]
Moved from General Discussion to Alliance Tournament Discussion.
Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Tsang Po
Gallente Aeon Security Force
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Posted - 2010.06.08 11:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Tsang Po There is a Starcraft commentator by the name of "Totalbiscuit" who is by far the best I've ever heard in any venue. He is what AT commentators should aspire to be. Let me break it down:
àI wonder if it's good old TB from the Planetside daysà
I have no idea, but here's his Youtube channel. --
By nerds, for nerds: The best blog that you will ever read. |
Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.08 11:59:00 -
[39]
Can somebody link to a video of the person you're on about? ------
0800-LAG-A-NODE
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aeoluse
Gallente Madhatters Inc. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.06.08 12:34:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Rhoulaki The other announcers are doing a great job, just make her be quiet.
Apart from Verone keeps getting ship types wrong as well and so for that matter does Angelhun (sp?). The only one who has consistently got most things right is Kil2, but even then he has got a few wrong.
They are all doing well to be honest, its fast paced and it is easy to sit at home and say oh they got that wrong, when you aren't commentating yourself.
If you can do better here's a challenge. Next fight, turn the sound off and record your own commentary then post it on YouTube (or to CCP so they can dub it over the video) and see how you do. We will see if you can not only say every name right, but talk for the entire time, making it fairly interesting and filling in the boring bits.
Watch any sport on TV, even the professionals get the names wrong on occasion.
Otherwise, just turn the sound off...
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Commander Azrael
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.06.08 12:37:00 -
[41]
Perhaps the OP post is a bit harsh, but several things were horribly wrong and going back to Soundwave when there was still a ship on the field is pretty fail.
I did find kil2's commentating useful though (even if the quality of his mic does grate a little on the ears).
Flame away!
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Orange Faeces
The Squirt Locker
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Posted - 2010.06.08 15:17:00 -
[42]
Bigotry is what happens when you don't listen to what someone is saying and judge them only on superficial characteristics that are not under their control. I am reporting this thread OP to CCP as sexism. Think before you post.
If you listen, actually listen, to the commentators, you will realize that they are all about the same. This goes for the females, Americans, brits, and others in the group. The only commentator who stood out as being completely uninterested in what they were doing was Darius Johnson.
oF
---
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Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:02:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Orange Faeces Bigotry is what happens when you don't listen to what someone is saying and judge them only on superficial characteristics that are not under their control. I am reporting this thread OP to CCP as sexism. Think before you post.
If you listen, actually listen, to the commentators, you will realize that they are all about the same. This goes for the females, Americans, brits, and others in the group. The only commentator who stood out as being completely uninterested in what they were doing was Darius Johnson.
oF
Seconded. The Faeces has spoken!
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Kil2
Club Bear HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.06.08 17:21:00 -
[44]
Hi guys!
Ive kind of been waiting for an opportunity to talk about stuff like comparisons to total biscuit and husky and all the other cool starcraft commentators, as well as the comparisons to sports commentary. One thing those guys have going that I dont and ive been trying every year to work on is presence on the mic, totalbiscuit is amazing in that respect and it makes him worth listening to even though he has no idea what hes talking about. tobi****enobi is another example of that.
But i want you guys to think about the differences between what they are trying to do and what we are trying to do. In starcraft or other popular e-sport games, you can see every single thing both players are doing. No confusion or ambiguity. Marines moving here. Starport building now. You can guess about what they will do in the future but theres no debate about the present. Eve is different in that respect. We dont know what FCs are saying, we dont know how ships are fit exactly, we dont know what targets are under ewar pressure. This isnt an excuse just keep it in mind when you compare the two.
And in sports theres only one focus in the action. Just follow the ball. In eve you have the equivilent of 8-20 balls on the field at a time (this is what stevie likes about the tournament?) We could be putting our attention in many different places simultaniously and this can lead to frustration if a viewer thinks it belongs somewhere different.
Just some stuff to think about. Glad most of you are having fun, look for us to get more and more awesome next weekend!
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Ahkin
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.06.08 22:22:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Vanakov Mek'lanavar Let CCP Claw commentate
He has an awesomeness level of 100
He is too busy blowing up boundary violations
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.06.08 22:27:00 -
[46]
Brianna fanclub checkin' in *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Harrigan VonStudly
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2010.06.08 22:31:00 -
[47]
Hire this guy
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Narciss Sevar
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.06.08 22:52:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly Hire this guy
He's an announcer not a commentator.
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Orange Faeces
The Squirt Locker
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Posted - 2010.06.08 22:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kil2 Hi guys!
Ive kind of been waiting for an opportunity to talk about stuff like comparisons to total biscuit and husky and all the other cool starcraft commentators, as well as the comparisons to sports commentary. One thing those guys have going that I dont and ive been trying every year to work on is presence on the mic, totalbiscuit is amazing in that respect and it makes him worth listening to even though he has no idea what hes talking about. tobi****enobi is another example of that.
But i want you guys to think about the differences between what they are trying to do and what we are trying to do. In starcraft or other popular e-sport games, you can see every single thing both players are doing. No confusion or ambiguity. Marines moving here. Starport building now. You can guess about what they will do in the future but theres no debate about the present. Eve is different in that respect. We dont know what FCs are saying, we dont know how ships are fit exactly, we dont know what targets are under ewar pressure. This isnt an excuse just keep it in mind when you compare the two.
And in sports theres only one focus in the action. Just follow the ball. In eve you have the equivilent of 8-20 balls on the field at a time (this is what stevie likes about the tournament?) We could be putting our attention in many different places simultaniously and this can lead to frustration if a viewer thinks it belongs somewhere different.
Just some stuff to think about. Glad most of you are having fun, look for us to get more and more awesome next weekend!
Thank you Kil2, for weighing in on this. I think you are correct that there are some profound differences in EVE Alliance Tourney, as compared to most other E-Sports events.
It seems to me that one way to solve this for CCP to develop an interface where, somehow, the electronic warfare effects, capacitor and other hidden-state aspects of each pilot's ship would be available to the commentators. Now, you'd have to delay the broadcast somewhat to avoid cheating, but this is not an insurmountable challenge.
I have some ideas on how this could be done, but it really isn't hard to imagine several solutions to this. For example, in the current system the teams are listed vertically on the left and right of the screen. Ships that have been successfully jammed could be outlined with a colored bar. Some other system would be needed for effects that are not binary but it could be done and it would help the viewers and the commentators considerably.
oF
(Also, its nice to see that a problematic thread is being derailed into helpful territory for once. This must be a first for forums!) ---
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Aldor Fisax
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Posted - 2010.06.08 22:57:00 -
[50]
I think Kil2 nailed it on the head. Its not very difficult to see what's going on in a SC or SC2 game in comparison to EVE. And in sports, the announcers have lists of all the players, all their skills, the positions, whose played how long with how many different teams, who they're dating, when they lost their virginity, etc... In contrast, the EVE announcers have to try to describe a lot of action quickly while only having Information they can get off their screens.
Now onto some suggestions. I like the idea of the announcers getting the same feed as we do so at least they can see what we do. There are some interesting timing issues but they can be solved. Also, it would be great if the announcers can get a fit list for the ships currently fighting it out near the start of the match. This way, they could comment both on the opponents fittings and how they're using them in the match.
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Kil2
Club Bear HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.06.08 23:35:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Kil2 on 08/06/2010 23:38:02 I agree about helpful territory! Its better for all.
In respect to your suggestions: I think any change that could give us knowledge that the teams themselves dont have is basically no-go territory. Even though this is a bummer from a viewers perspective, its extremely important from a players perspective. If we are given fitting information and we talk about it and then the team we talked about doesn't lose any ships, its possible our information would compromise their ability to perform in future matches( or even in the current match because of the stream, which would be the worst possible outcome).
E-war displays are right on the line. That information is all available to all player participants IF the gang is communicating well and the FCs are good. For us as viewers it would be amazing to see little jam/damp/TD icons next to the ships they are being used against, but, what if a team is communicating badly and they accidentally have put ALL of their matar jammers on the same target, or they have somehow forgotten to damp a critical ship, now our commentary and the stream comes into play for the teams strategically.
Keeping the Action completely separate from the broadcast is crucial to having a tournament worth watching but ideas like this are constantly running through my mind as well because every extra piece of info we get contributes to a better experience for the viewers.
Keep ideas coming and thanks for thoughtful, non-hateful discussion
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Aldor Fisax
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Posted - 2010.06.08 23:54:00 -
[52]
Hmm, you raise a few good points. I think the problem of effecting the outcome of the current fight (both from my fitting suggestion and the improved graphics suggestion) could be elleviated by a broadcast delay. This delay doesn't necessarily need to be very long. The first round fights averaged probably ~10 minutes so a ~5 minute delay would cause the broadcast to have a very limited delay on the fight. For example, by the time you announced any fittings or ECMs or whatever, the fight would be 5 minutes further down the road. Of course, I do not know if this would have some other negative effect I haven't thought of.
I'm not 100% sure I agree with your comment about harming teams by talking about fittings. If the fittings were fixed I would agree, but teams can of course, change their fittings. Further, this would be a disadvantage to all teams (that have ships survive). I do agree that if you lose all your ships, you wont suffer that disadvantage but you did lose all your ships. I just think because every team would have roughly the same disadvantage, and you can mitigate it by changing fittings or changing ships, its not that big of a deal, but I could be wrong.
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Kil2
Club Bear HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.06.09 00:02:00 -
[53]
I think you're right about the delay. Especially with respect to ewar.
In terms of fittings I think even if in theory the change effects all equally, in practice some specific team would get hosed and be really frustrated. Also you are right they would know what had been mentioned and have the opportunity to adjust. But then you have that same question of do you want the broadcast having direct effect on strategy in the tournament?
The question of whether the tournament is an event for the players or the viewers is really interesting to me. You want both of course but depending on which has higher value the shape the event takes could change drastically.
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Harrigan VonStudly
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2010.06.09 01:48:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Harrigan VonStudly on 09/06/2010 01:49:25
Originally by: Narciss Sevar
Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly Hire this guy
He's an announcer not a commentator.
No ****. To get the tournament started in dramatic fashion instead of: ok welcome ...
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Aldor Fisax
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Posted - 2010.06.09 02:20:00 -
[55]
I think you're right that you don't want to impinge on the integrity of the match, and give any one side an unfair advantage. I think, however, that this change wouldn't give any one side a significant advantage. My reasoning behind this is as follows: If I was in the tournament, I'd of course watch the match of my next opponent. I, then, would have a good guess of the previous strategy and fittings of the other side. Thus, I'd probably change my strategy (assuming they also could do the same). I feel that if the announcers have the fitting info, they wouldn't necessarily glean much more information. It also depends on what the announcers actually say. If you say, "He's running three Armor Rep 2s and a Magnetic Stabilizer" is a lot different then saying, "Well I can see he's fitting a strong armor tank and some rails". Anyway, as a relative noob, I may just not have the qualification to make a good statement about this.
To your second point, it is interesting the trade off of the sport vs the spectators. I think a good example is baseball. Clearly, using the broadcast, a team can steal signs. In fact, many believes this happens and is sort of just tolerated. If you get caught, you get punished but its not a big deal. Its cause the angle of the broadcast (which allows this) is far more important than this possibility. The analogy breaks down though, since baseball is a multi-billion dollar industry and last I checked, AT is not.
On a separate note, if the announcers can focus a bit more on strategy of one team or another, rather than "oh, their Vindicator is in armor, and it's gone" would be a bit more useful.
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Kashimir
Otoko no Baito The Polaris Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.09 05:14:00 -
[56]
In my opinion the most horrible thing in these threads are the people screaming about the pronunciation. Seriously, I thought everyone would have been used to it by now since we are in the internet with people from all different nationalities.
For example me, having spent most of the Eve-time in Finnish speaking TS. When I have to speak english in Eve, even though my general pronunciation ain't horrible the shipnames naturally stay 'finglish' just because I'm used to it.
And this isn't restricted to different nationalities, the 'normal' pronunciation of the ship- and solarsystemnames varies a lot even between the different alliances. From now of if someone flames you for pronouncing wrong just say: "Sorry, but I'm just speaking ______ (insert alliance name here) -dialect"
Sorry about the rant, I hope this won't lead this thread back into a bad direction.
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Senator Zedicus
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Posted - 2010.06.09 06:15:00 -
[57]
This thread is about improvements that can be made... this *****fest is off topic and completely unproductive.
The announcers all are doing a great job, I noted many times errors made by both Men and Women, they volunteer there time so cut slack and watch the matches with the mute button on if it vex's you.
Now. How to Approve the Tourneys
1. Faster Updates on the Eve Tourney Page would be great. 2. Links to Forum and IRC room would be an excellent addition. Twitter addon is ok. But needs to be Freeze in one position. 3. The Commentators should all have a list of the ships 2 minutes prior to the match start. This may avoid confusion later and make the Commentators job more easy. 4. The Area should be tighter in the Finals. Teams should increase in Size. Hopefully this should lend a bit more Carnage. 5. Teams should consist of 20 registered Pilots. I'm not sure if this is the case or not now, but it would certainly decrease the chances of being disqualified for not fielding the correct number players needed.
Flame Away Ladies and Gentlemen
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Kashimir
Otoko no Baito The Polaris Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.06.09 06:26:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Senator Zedicus 3. The Commentators should all have a list of the ships 2 minutes prior to the match start. This may avoid confusion later and make the Commentators job more easy.
This.
Also as for the broadcast it would be nice to see the camera on the field also few minutes prior to the match allowing the commentators to do some speculation of the match and allow the viewers to see the ranges and stuff. It seems to be quite hectic at times in the beginning of the match. Though this would cut down the short break that the commentators have between the matches even shorter.
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Yura Ghost
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Posted - 2010.06.09 06:35:00 -
[59]
Again, CCP needs to pay for professionals. There are good pvpers out there that know 1000 times more then these commentators. But they will not waste their time just to comment. You have to pay them.
CCP is using cheap labor. lol.
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DasPocketTB
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Posted - 2010.06.09 12:40:00 -
[60]
Edited by: DasPocketTB on 09/06/2010 12:45:19 Greetings ladies and gents, my name is TotalBiscuit and I'd like to weigh in on this one briefly.
A lot of valid points have been made as to how to present competitive gaming content to a large audience. The mention of my name was flattering, but I do have to hilight something somebody else said further down, in which he commented that I sounded good but often had no idea what I was talking about.
That guy is correct, my knowledge of SC2 for instance is surface level, my presentations are based around colour and high-adrenaline play-by-play. In the case of EvE, you can have an element of that but you must have a much more analytical form of commentary in order to succeed.
There are 3 kinds of commentator in sports, whether electronic or otherwise.
Play-by-Play :- This is your anchor guy, he does the majority of the talking. Usually the one with the most confidence and ability to talk quickly and clearly. His analysis skills only have to extend to knowing who is on the field and what they are doing in real-time. He then takes that knowledge and provides a running description of exactly what is going on, generally doing so in a bombastic manner. Originally designed to give radio listeners a clear picture of the match, play-by-play has evolved into being a method of enhancing the enjoyment of the spectator with loud, hyperbolic stylings, providing excitement as well as helping them identify who is playing and what is going on on the field.
Colour :- This is the guy with the quips, the big, larger than life catchphrases, the funny guy. He can also fit into an analytical role depending on the size of the commentary team. A team of 2 for instance will generally run with a play-by-play and a colour, in which case the colour often provides analysis after a big play, breaks it down and covers any instant replays. In a larger commentary team, the colour is tasked with entertaining the audience with humourous remarks and enthusiasm.
Analyst :- Self-explanatory, this is the guy with the knowledge. He will interject with in-depth analysis of strategy, tactics and recent plays. He will analyse the flow of the match and provide predictions as well as explanations as to why something just happened the way it did. He supports the play-by-play, giving him a break as well as ensuring the play-by-play doesn't have to provide deeper analysis on the fly, which is very difficult when you're thinking and speaking at a high speed, in real-time.
Some commentators cover multiple styles, but most professional sports commentary teams consist of at least 2, usually 3 people with a mixture of these skills and styles.
EvE Online favours analyst commentary over play-by-play. Battles are often slow-paced, not as visually dynamic as other sports, electronic or otherwise. The demographic in question ia also knowledgeable and does not appreciate incorrect calls. They want the nitty-gritty I mean come on, EvE isn't called Spreadsheets in Space for nothing, it's a numbers game, you need people who can understand those numbers. I would imagine the vast majority of viewers already play EvE so the focus needs to be on what appeals to them. Jokes and entertainment are a good idea but accuracy is perhaps the most important thing in my honest opinion.
All sports are different and require different things, I'm not convinced that EvE coverage has reached maturity yet but if it is to, there needs to be a lot of thought applied to how best to present the content and who exactly is going to be watching it.
Lord knows if that'll be any help but hey, just wanted to give you my two cents.
Quote: àI wonder if it's good old TB from the Planetside daysà
It is.
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