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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Jarnis McPieksu
404
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:33:00 -
[391] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:yeah, if mining raw cobalt and platinum is only slightly less proftable then transmuting them to Technetium, that means alchemy+ at razor-slim profit margins is barely more efficient then technetium trade which is saddled by a markup of thousands of percentage. which means this solves very little except capping tech prices at their present value which CCP Fozzy described as "broken". cant you just do pi stuff and gas mining so that runing a pos is free? plus free moon goo means its all free
OMG, you found the secret how to make billions of ISK. Just mine ice, do PI, mine moons then use all that to run reactions and sell it all and... ALL FREE*.
*May require ridiculous amounts of play time to "work in the salt mines" to save few peanuts on some of the raw materials
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Tairon Usaro
ZERO T0LERANCE RAZOR Alliance
11
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:34:00 -
[392] - Quote
like the change !
OTEC was fun for a while ... but its certainly a gamebreaker if it stayed any longer
On the other side, i think it's wrong to take out passive alliance money sources. This is what we fight for. Small scale ganking of Miners (in essence thats, what you want us to be, when it comes to ring mining) is fun for a while, but it's not fuelling epic wars that last over month. So keep moon goo with alchemy "pressure valves" and dont try replace passive alliance money by active miner money, it wont work this way, but will damage the 0.0 alliance content.
I dont mind, if ring mining is going to be an addition, but it should not be a substitution. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
861
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:35:00 -
[393] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:yeah, if mining raw cobalt and platinum is only slightly less proftable then transmuting them to Technetium, that means alchemy+ at razor-slim profit margins is barely more efficient then technetium trade which is saddled by a markup of thousands of percentage. which means this solves very little except capping tech prices at their present value which CCP Fozzy described as "broken". Much like your alliances push a few months ago to go harass towers, you just don't get it. Whether it's some POS push my alliance never participated in or some posting fee that doesn't exist, keeping track of the incoherent hallucinations ("Vibrant drone regions") you assert as reality is difficult to follow. You're to credibility what MeBiatch is to spelling.
So you're saying that FAIL didn't deploy north to "harass" tech moons and then not manage to do a single thing for 3 weeks, then pack up and go home?
I mean, if it wont get moderated out i can post every alliance meeting and mail you've had in your little gutter dwelling scrub alliance for the past 6 months, or even better your alliance meeting that literally everybody in EVE's 0.0 population has sat around laughing about from last weekend where you fine gentlemen discussed all the fines that are levied from talking in local and forum posting.
Oh hey look heres one now:
Quote:Re: DO NOT TALK IN LOCAL From: Arch-ûeb-¦ld Hornby Sent: 2012.06.28 14:15 To: Ca-òcade Imminent
From now on an increasing fine goes to anyone saying anything but GF in local when neuts are present. 1st offense : 50m 2nd offense : 250m 3rd offense : 800m
If anyone sees anyone doing this mail GAGS Pevi a picture
-Archie
Yea, totally sounds like I'm making things up
Man your alliance sure does sound like fun, being told when you're allowed to talk and where sure is the pinnacle of videogame fun! |
Teclador
Stardust Heavy Industries Persona Non Gratis
29
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:35:00 -
[394] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Wocka Wocka!
Remember that if you like this change you should hit the "like" button on this post. I need to know if this is the kind of work the community is looking for. ;)
I'm still missing the Dislike Button.
If you really want to know Real Numbers, then you have to add a Dislike Button.
It's the same Mistake you are doing here, you (CCP) have done with the Unified Inventory, i'm still waiting to get the Old Inventory Back, but Beside the new one. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1445
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:39:00 -
[395] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Yea, totally sounds like I'm making things up Yea it kind of does when you claim that "forum posting results in a fine" and post an unrelated e-mail about forbidding chat in local. You see Grath, this is an internet browser, not an in-game EVE channel hth |
Lord Zim
1048
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:40:00 -
[396] - Quote
So not even good **** to share with your adversaries after a good spacefuck?
Nicolo, I am disappointed. |
PinkKnife
Noir. Academy Noir. Mercenary Group
169
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:41:00 -
[397] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Kosmoto Gothwen wrote:First off glad this is all getting looked at.
I wanted to show some real numbers to the profitability of this: Cobalt 100 x 24 x 7 = 16,800 = approx 128,100,000isk/wk Platinum 100 x 24 x 7 = 16,800 = approx 106,476,552isk/wk 128,100,000isk + 106,476,552isk = 234,576,522isk/wk
Produces Platinum Technite which refines into Platinum Technite 10/hr x 24hrs x 7days = 1,680units = approx 176,566,303.20isk/wk Platinum 95/hr x 24hrs x 7days = 15,960 = approx 101,184,644.40isk/wk Output value per wk = 277,750,947.60isk
Approx Large Tower fuel cost = 147,840,000isk/wk Approx Medium Tower fuel cost = 73,920,000isk/wk
Profits Large Tower = 277,750,947.60 - 147,840,000 = 129,910,947.60isk/wk Medium Tower = 277,750,947.60 - 147,840,000 = 203,830,947.60isk/wk
So the above isk values are based on current Jita avg sell prices via eve-central. (Not worth nit picking isk prices when dealing with this size of numbers, and values fluctuate). Also I'm assuming your doing this on a single tower, it's doable but to get both resources on a single moon isn't likely, so you probably end up with multiple POS's or shipping one of the resources in, either way it would cut into the profit margin. As you can see at currently inflated market values it would be marginally profitable to do this reaction but if PlatTech went down it wouldn't be worth doing any more. Even at these numbers the risk is moderately high considering you have a billion isk POS set up (including fuel) to do this. No. Your math is broken. Assuming the weekly input and output values and fuel costs are correct (I can't be bothered to verify right now), it would cost. 235M (input cost)+74M (fuel cost, med tower running one of these reactions. large could do two at twice the fuel cost, no real change for this)= 309M per week to produce stuff that sells for 278M. For a fat loss of 31M per week. You could also simplify the math by not counting any output Platinum and just price in 5 units/cycle and just shave off 100M per week from input and output. It won't change the total; 209M costs, 178M sale price of output. The only way this dev blog makes any sense is that it is actually a bait-and-switch. They have every intention of using the normal alchemy ratios instead of 20/1 but won't disclose that just yet. At 5/1 ratio you would get 4 times as much platinum technite with the same inputs, making this very profitable at current prices, which obviously wouldn't last for very long.
This is why the smart money is investing in Pos towers, silos, and reaction arrays. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1445
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:46:00 -
[398] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:So not even good **** to share with your adversaries after a good spacefuck?
Nicolo, I am disappointed. no local chat is what makes us elite, like those masked sandninjas in 300 |
Jarnis McPieksu
404
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:51:00 -
[399] - Quote
PinkKnife wrote:Jarnis McPieksu wrote:
The only way this dev blog makes any sense is that it is actually a bait-and-switch. They have every intention of using the normal alchemy ratios instead of 20/1 but won't disclose that just yet. At 5/1 ratio you would get 4 times as much platinum technite with the same inputs, making this very profitable at current prices, which obviously wouldn't last for very long.
This is why the smart money is investing in Pos towers, silos, and reaction arrays.
...and POS fuel. Large chunk of the sale price of alchemy-reacted plat technite is actually POS fuel.
Caldari/Gallente fuel block / isotope price spike speculation inc. |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
247
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:01:00 -
[400] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Yea, totally sounds like I'm making things up Yea it kind of does when you claim that "forum posting results in a fine" and post an unrelated e-mail about forbidding in-game chat in local. You see Grath, this is an internet browser, not an in-game EVE channel hth he only beats me on Saturdays! |
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Lord Zim
1048
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:02:00 -
[401] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Lord Zim wrote:So not even good **** to share with your adversaries after a good spacefuck?
Nicolo, I am disappointed. no local chat is what makes us elite, like those masked sandninjas in 300 No **** in local makes this goon :smith: |
Atomic Option
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
19
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:03:00 -
[402] - Quote
Tippia wrote:In before GÇ£but all those lower-tier moons are in newly claimed CFC space! Raaahrr CCPSwarm!GÇ¥
hahaha yeah as if the other alliances didn't also see this coming. That Honeybadger/TEST/CFC took that space first is their own fault. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
863
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:03:00 -
[403] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Yea, totally sounds like I'm making things up Yea it kind of does when you claim that "forum posting results in a fine" and post an unrelated e-mail about forbidding in-game chat in local. You see Grath, this is an internet browser, not an in-game EVE channel hth
http://soundcloud.com/theybemadlolololol/fail-alli-meeting-july06
You go through it again, I'm not sifting through that **** twice, but its in there, 2000 other people have listened (and laughed) at it.
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
475
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:11:00 -
[404] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Yea, totally sounds like I'm making things up Yea it kind of does when you claim that "forum posting results in a fine" and post an unrelated e-mail about forbidding in-game chat in local. You see Grath, this is an internet browser, not an in-game EVE channel hth http://soundcloud.com/theybemadlolololol/fail-alli-meeting-july06You go through it again, I'm not sifting through that **** twice, but its in there, 2000 other people have listened (and laughed) at it.
Nanohacs anyone? PLEX FOR PIZZA! -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1445
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:12:00 -
[405] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Yea, totally sounds like I'm making things up Yea it kind of does when you claim that "forum posting results in a fine" and post an unrelated e-mail about forbidding in-game chat in local. You see Grath, this is an internet browser, not an in-game EVE channel hth http://soundcloud.com/theybemadlolololol/fail-alli-meeting-july06You go through it again, I'm not sifting through that **** twice, but its in there, 2000 other people have listened (and laughed) at it. I'm at work at the moment; just read the list of rules on our forum which you doubtlessly have mirrored: no rule on forum posting. |
Airto TLA
Puppeteers of Doom Real Life Rejects
17
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:18:00 -
[406] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GRIEV3R wrote:Oh man, OTEC is probably going to QQ pretty hard at this. QQing over something they've been advocating? That doesn't make much senseGǪ Quote:on a semi-related note, wouldn't it be spiffy if, in the real world, if we don't like OPEC having a monopoly on virtually all the oil on Earth, we could just "tweak" the laws of chemistry and physics so anyone can make a replacement for oil in their basement? We kind of can. It's just not worth the effort, though.
Actually this sort of stuff happens everyday, fuel prices get too high and people SUSTITUTE, they trade fuel guzzlers for more fuel efficient, they ride the bus, comapnies ship by rail, coal and nuclear get pushed up to replace oil in electricity production, high enough prices and really creative things start to happen (Synthetic rubber was invented to solve a similar issue in world war II, wood was used in some airplanes to save precious aluminium in some cases).
Alchemy though hoaky in form represents what markets really do if an imput goes to high an alternatives are found until prices find a new equilibrium. Since the game would be to complicated to follow the real world this plug should help.
Also to the dofusess in Goons, etc. complaininng about the "loss" in alliance income and "why should we have to grind", if you really think about it the fact you did not have to grind and could just get ships replaced might have some smalll part to do with your eassy victorys in Delve, etc. The fact that the SOCOs had to replace heir own ships AND give up producing income I would hazzard a guess made getting call to arms work very difficult. Look Goons (the foot soldiers, not the alliance) are going to flow to the best deal so you had the advantage there in the recruitment of the order following types, the other side had to try and call up forces with vague promises of "no rent for next month" 100 mill reimburse on tengus and 1/2 on logis (not as good as mach reimburse, huh).
It would not shock me to find out several hundred pilots might have msutered to Delve had we gotten a better deal , hell I might been there for a few days and I am afraid of big fleets. YOu may have still won, but the fight probaly would still be going on and SOCO would have had a chance to see if resource exhastion would have set in. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
863
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:24:00 -
[407] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Yea, totally sounds like I'm making things up Yea it kind of does when you claim that "forum posting results in a fine" and post an unrelated e-mail about forbidding in-game chat in local. You see Grath, this is an internet browser, not an in-game EVE channel hth http://soundcloud.com/theybemadlolololol/fail-alli-meeting-july06You go through it again, I'm not sifting through that **** twice, but its in there, 2000 other people have listened (and laughed) at it. I'm at work at the moment; just read the list of rules on our forum which you doubtlessly have mirrored: no rule on forum posting.
Ok real talk: Doesn't it bother you that you even had to check? I mean christ what kind of dickheads do you play with that they think they have the ability to dictate what and when and where you can speak? Whats more, why would you listen to them?
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Lord Zim
1048
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:25:00 -
[408] - Quote
aww boo hoo your alliances (which still shouldn't be poor even though they may not have had tech) can't do a proper ship replacement programme? well shucks, kick them in the nuts until they offer it. |
Teclador
Stardust Heavy Industries Persona Non Gratis
29
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:28:00 -
[409] - Quote
So now to the Topic itself.
The Problem of the Tech2 Producer have is not the Technetium itself, it's the kind way CCP has implemented the Moongoo.
Beside the Technetium we have Ceasium, Hafnium and Mercury. Why are these Material not 1:1 Involved in to the Tech2 Production?
Simple Example (leaned on the Eve History): Technetium = mostly spreaded in Gurista Space (as far as i know it), so it's a Caldari Trade-Good. Ceasium = mostly spreaded in Serpentis Space (As far as i know it), so it's a Galente Trade-Good.
So why could be these 2 Moongoo's not a Potential Conflict Good (Eve History?) between Caldari and Galente and to go on with The Red Thread, Galente Tech2 Components should be Produced with Technetium and Caldari with Ceasium. Same vise versa with Minmatar - Amarr and Hafnium - Mercury.
So if is will go like my Example, more of the Moongoo's will be needed for Tech2 Produktion and this is simpler to be Implemented in the Game by changing the Bill of Material of the involved Items.
And Best, the Moons are untouched, so Players will still have there Moons and the Goo they have. No Big Movements. But new Conflict Potential for the other Regions and there Moon and Goo.
Etc... |
Headerman
The New Era C0NVICTED
899
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:53:00 -
[410] - Quote
This should be interesting! Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062 |
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
29
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:54:00 -
[411] - Quote
Hello great and powerful Fozzie
Having Technetium in one region only has been a running gag to long Eve Radio |
Lord Zim
1052
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:54:00 -
[412] - Quote
It's not in "one region", hth. |
Cest Bravura
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
0
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Posted - 2012.07.19 22:55:00 -
[413] - Quote
So many shitstorms everywhere... don't know how to respond to the tears..... sooo, here's a pony!
Also, great work Fozzie. |
Zuel Aaoiric
Obsidian Oracle
0
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Posted - 2012.07.19 23:01:00 -
[414] - Quote
I haven't read all the posts. Sorry if this has already been brought up, but I haven't read anything on this so far:
1. The big payoff for taking the risks of nullsec is moon mining. Everything else is in the game can be obtained from highsec or a highsec static wh.
2. The EVE experience is unique in that you, as a player, are allowed to rule the skys. I am not aware of another mmo which allows so much player control. If they "fix" all the player exploits isn't that just saying, "work hard, but don't be crafty because big brother will take your toys away!". I see there is a problem with moon goo. I have been wondering what could be done to fix this problem, but in reality there isn't a problem that players can't fix already. If we don't like the prices of moon goo we should band together, with a temporary peace pact, and go take those moons!
I my be viewed as a noob for suggesting such a thing when those moons are guarded by such a powerful coalition, but the game is set to cater to numbers not capitals.
If there is a problem it really stems from the lack of capacity we have as players to trust each other (temporarily at least) to band together for a common cause. There is a concept known as crabs in a barrel. The concept is: the crabs will climb on top of each other to get out of the barrel, but as soon as one has grasped the top the others will all hang and climb on him until he falls. The cycle starts over and in the end no one has the technite monopoly or the top of the barrel.
A limited trust can be accomplished by increasing the consequences for attacking a fellow member of an established faction/race/coalition or non-aggression pacts; however CCP sees fit to implement this solution.
I envision this accomplished in the form of a bounty system that allows anyone in the territory of a faction to shoot anyone who has a bounty on their head from unlawful acts against a member of that faction. The bounty would be calculated based on the total loss of the assaulted party plus fines and fees which correlates appropriately with the crimes committed. This can be enhanced or decreased based on the standings of all involved parties making it more risky to shoot someone with higher standings or in high security space. The bounty would be provided by the injured party (so it doesn't become an ISK faucet). The assailant would then have their bounty reduced by a given percentage of their lost ship appropriate for the combined severity of their crime, standings, and the security of the system involved. This is so the party who has already been assaulted isn't doubly punished by having to put up a bounty in order to get retribution of 1/2 their loss (cost of loss + cost of bounty).
With a bounty system carefully implemented, we could have some trust in our fellow pilots. This is if all parties are of good standings with the faction we commonly share. If they shoot you they will not be able to fly safely through their own "home" regions.
The bounty system plus a faction fleet command interface built to orchestrate fleet operations would make this change facilitate the crabs in a barrel effect with technite and all other situations so CCP can stay cool as the one developer who allows their audience to truly play!
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Soto ShinDo
HeroinPixelSpace
11
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Posted - 2012.07.19 23:04:00 -
[415] - Quote
Magnifikus ErzverwirrTer wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Magnifikus ErzverwirrTer wrote:Goon tears incomming, well done CCP, thanks for fixing this design failure that has been exploited too long :) ahahahahahahaha i would stfu, if my alliance fc's lead fleets full of goon shitheads only because he can suck mittens tech ****** ;)
Fixed your char name to better reflect your state of mind
For you none germans - it translates wordly to arc-confused |
coolzero
The Replicators Northern Associates.
23
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Posted - 2012.07.19 23:17:00 -
[416] - Quote
@CCP Omen
what about ring mining????
wasnt the suggested what (part) of the moon goo would be comming from ring mining. |
Ricand Michelliaos
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
15
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Posted - 2012.07.19 23:20:00 -
[417] - Quote
Honestly, the easiest answer would have been populating other systems with tech moons. http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3q5s4x/ |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
675
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Posted - 2012.07.19 23:39:00 -
[418] - Quote
LOL |
Soto ShinDo
HeroinPixelSpace
11
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Posted - 2012.07.19 23:42:00 -
[419] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:looking for a new corporation
I could sponsor you into mine - just 500 Mio ISK |
Nathan Baxter
InterSun Freelance Moon Warriors
2
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Posted - 2012.07.19 23:44:00 -
[420] - Quote
I haven't read the whole 20 page of post ... but did the previous " change" actually lower price of T2 materials ? or just made the big boys slightly less rich ? will this have any impact on the price of t2 gear or again just slightly lower the monopole of certain materials from big alliances and coalitions .
I think the change is good but have serious doubt has to any real impact it will have . When I see the Technicium advert during the tourny and I wonder how much those alliances control ... 1/3 ... 1/2 ... 3/4...
Cheers Nathan |
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