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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Rainbow Prism Colorblind
Deep Space Equinox
0
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:10:00 -
[91] - Quote
Hm, A shange on how to get material.
I dont relly live out in null / yet/ but it seems area of controll need to be widened if you gona keep up the prices with this shange.
THe only isue i see with this is if somehow people culd start using lowsec materials to make nullsec materals.
There is this nature of human of beeing lazy, so if you lose profit but can do it more lazely, the masses wuld probely do so.
so I hope at lest the mataerials stays out in null and not slips into low.
Thats what my thouts of it all is.
PS i dont knwo waht moons gives what material, havent tounced it yet ^^ |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
812
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:11:00 -
[92] - Quote
Zimmy Zeta wrote:Ivan Ward wrote:What is technetium? It's like the spice in Dune...only with Goons instead of sandworms.
best description EVER a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
718
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
BeanBagKing wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:Quote:The end goal is for the materials for tech two production to come from player activities that require group gameplay and risk taking, and that provide appropriate rewards. This will eventually involve changes to both resource collection and the build requirements for construction of tech two materials and items. Does this mean you are trying to eliminate sources of alliance-level income? Or is there something being planned to replace moon mining on an alliance level? I seem to remember when CCP previously discussed this they mentioned that they didn't like the idea that an alliance can hold a few moons and be rich, but hold absolutely no space, nor even live in the area with the moons. The idea CCP seemed to have here is that alliance income should be tied to how active an alliance is in their own space (As far as living there, defending it, upgrading it, mining, ratting, etc). Hopefully the moon mining fix also ties in with this larger scheme of alliance income and they'll fix that. The current alliance/corp income mechanics are pretty broken. Ratting can be taxed by a corp, but not mining or market trading. Mining can be taxed via station refinery taxes, but many times these are either a) skipped when people refine at POS's, or b) held by alliance holding corps, resulting in a mining tax that goes to alliance instead of corp. Here again market operations and building don't get taxed (by the corp/alliance anyway, what is CONCORD doing taxing markets in player run 0.0?). If CCP wants alliance to gain income via member actions the entire tax/income mechanics need to be overhauled as well. Corp leaders need to be able to directly (and somewhat evenly) tax all members of a corp no matter what their activity in a corp. It would also be great if they could tax them based on relative activity (kind of like ratting now) and not just a flat tax of XX mil isk/week or whatever, i.e. the more flexability here, the better. Let us run our own operations, but give us the tools to do it. Alliances need similar power to chose who they tax (the corps directly, or the players directly) and how they tax them (flat tax, per member tax, tax against activities such as ratting, mining, marketing, etc). Again, they need to be able to make this fairly even across all activities.
Except that's not alliance income. That's member income that the alliance chooses to take from the members and redistribute. By "alliance income" I mean income that doesn't come from one player grinding NPCs or grinding rocks or whatnot, but from the whole alliance working together to hold a strategic objective.
If moon mining was removed with no replacement alliance level income (I'm not saying that it neccessarily will, but so far I haven't seen CCP even suggest otherwise), you would basically have two options on how to run an alliance. Either it's everyone for themselves, where in order to fight you have to grind personal income for hours first - or the alliance starts imposing ratting taxes, mining taxes, refining taxes, market taxes, to the point where a big part of membership is simply exploited for all they've got in order to afford the "military" to have ships to fight in. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
718
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:15:00 -
[94] - Quote
Quoting myself on this topic from before:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:I appreciate the CCP responses to this thread, as well as its mostly constructive discussion so far. I have one question for the CCP game design team:
What do you think about what I'd call the "traditional model" of a 0.0 alliance? Now, I can't speak for how things work in the south or east, but pretty much every alliance in the north works in a similar fashion. The alliance holds strategic assets (moons being by far the most important, then also POCOs and stations), which produce income to the alliance wallet. This wallet then funds ship replacement / ship sponsorship / capital / supercapital programs.
This means that the regular member in a reasonably well-run alliance will get their ship losses in PvP replaced by this alliance income. This means that I, as a member of an alliance, don't have to spend my time grinding NPCs or rocks for money, I can instead spend it fighting for my alliance - which is what I came to 0.0 to do.
If alliance-level income is nerfed to the point that it can't afford the ships needed to keep the alliance alive, the burden of making ISK falls down to the common grunts. I, as a busy person out of game, definitely don't have the time to spend shooting NPCs or shooting rocks or doing industry or whatnot to afford my ships. Neither I want to, I consider the vast majority of PvE content in EVE dull and repetitive. I prefer shooting other people in the face and taking their stuff.
Forcing alliances to tax their members and then use the taxes to buy ships doesn't solve the problem. It only means that the alliance will be redistributing the burden of the grind. If the "PvPer" in an alliance is to survive, someone else (or likely several people) will have to pay for their losses. I don't see a fair way of managing this that wouldn't result in a group of alliance members being exploited for their ISK.
And before anyone accuses me of wanting effort-free income, this is very far from the truth. Alliance (moongoo) income is by no means effort-free. Even now, in what I would consider peacetime, there is not a week without us having to fight to defend our moons. In an active war, moons are being attacked daily and frequently change owners. I would say that on average I spend as much time fighting for moons (and for sovereignty, and for CSAAs, and to just deter enemy fleets) as I would need to grind for money to afford my ships. The only difference is that I don't spend this time shooting NPCs, but shooting other people.
This aspect of EVE is what kept me attracted to it for the past three years. The fact that you can have a fully functional game without any of the background and content being provided by NPCs. As it stands now, the vast majority of my interaction with the game is player-driven. Our income as an alliance - which funds my ships - comes from bashing other players' towers, not from grinding NPCs. After a blanket moongoo removal with no comparable replacement for an alliance-level income, I don't see a way in which this type of gameplay could survive.
So here stands my question, is CCP aware of this "traditional model" of a 0.0 alliance? Do you want to support it, abolish it, or is it not a deciding factor in the process?
Thanks for any replies. |
Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises Red Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:16:00 -
[95] - Quote
You mean they may have had prior knowledge before the invastion because of some ccp or ex ccp were in the CFC ?.. say it is not so ?
Tippia wrote:In before GÇ£but all those lower-tier moons are in newly claimed CFC space! Raaahrr CCPSwarm!GÇ¥
GÇ£Out of clutter, find simplicity. From discord, find harmony. In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.GÇ¥ -- -áAlbert -áEinstein-á |
Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession Brothers of Apocrypha.
28
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:18:00 -
[96] - Quote
Finally something to look forward to. I hope these changes kick start something grand. |
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
29
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:18:00 -
[97] - Quote
Hope you guys mess around with the geography of moon placement again as well (like we saw in dominion), glad to see this is finally getting worked on. If you guys made a whole expansion dedicated to just rebalancing moon minerals and implementing the new POS system I don't think anyone would mind. |
St0n3r0d1um
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:19:00 -
[98] - Quote
I don't want to play this game anymore |
Blastcaps Madullier
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ethereal Dawn
68
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:20:00 -
[99] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:It is summer time and that means vacation time ... so you would think! But our brave developers do not rest to improve EVE Online and to investigate which part of the New Eden Universe would benefit from developer love the most. CCP Fozzie brings you news about Technetium in his inauguration blog "Tech is fine l2p". Please welcome CCP Fozzie and read his first blog here. We invite you to use this thread for your (constructive and polite) feedback.
get planatary ring mining up and running and it solves the issue anyways? :) |
wallenbergaren
University of Caille Gallente Federation
46
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:20:00 -
[100] - Quote
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/region/moons
[/quote]
Implying cobalt moons will be worth anything
lol |
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Maximus Stuu
Perca Resources
2
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:20:00 -
[101] - Quote
/me puts on tinfoil hat
How suprising that the market was brought out of Cobalt 2 months ago....probably the only way this new Dev was allowed to start playing with Tech, giving Goons the heads up before.... |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1433
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:20:00 -
[102] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote: Except that's not alliance income. That's member income that the alliance chooses to take from the members and redistribute. By "alliance income" I mean income that doesn't come from one player grinding NPCs or grinding rocks or whatnot, but from the whole alliance working together to hold a strategic objective.
If moon mining was removed with no replacement alliance level income (I'm not saying that it neccessarily will, but so far I haven't seen CCP even suggest otherwise), you would basically have two options on how to run an alliance. Either it's everyone for themselves, where in order to fight you have to grind personal income for hours first - or the alliance starts imposing ratting taxes, mining taxes, refining taxes, market taxes, to the point where a big part of membership is simply exploited for all they've got in order to afford the "military" to have ships to fight in.
80-90% of nullsec alliances do fine without technetium, no replacement needed |
Kata Amentis
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
62
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:20:00 -
[103] - Quote
I've always wondered... and purely from a curiosity point of view
what was the thinking behind making alchemy:
100 a + 100 b = 1 c 1c = 10 (what you were after) + 95 b
Wouldn't:
100 a + 5 b = 10 (what you were after)
make more sense?
i.e. why have the refining stage at all? Curiosity killed the Kata...
... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count. |
Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises Red Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:22:00 -
[104] - Quote
The tears are strong with this one.
Elecktra Blue wrote:"The end goal is for the materials for tech two production to come from player activities that require group gameplay and risk taking, and that provide appropriate rewards."
Yes not like a group of players took the time to grind sov, place towers, keep up the logistics of said towers, and defended them.
GÇ£Out of clutter, find simplicity. From discord, find harmony. In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity.GÇ¥ -- -áAlbert -áEinstein-á |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe
156
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:24:00 -
[105] - Quote
Man the reactions to this crazy blog are gonna make the work day way more tolerable. |
Cahvus
Hedron Industries High Rollers
20
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:26:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Cahvus wrote:Didn't even wait to get home from work to like this! Congrats on the first dev blog Fozzie and keep up the good work! Look forward to hearing more from you in the future.
PS give the dev responsible for live community events a friendly syringe full of adreniline for me! We need more of those awesome events! NO ADRENALINE! Noted though. I want to get some going too, and we are working on some cool ideas. Fozzie - great first devblog! Also excellent likewhoring
Thanks for the reply, can't wait! And if the adrenaline is not your taste we might instead spike your coffee with guyaki! hope you like caffeine! |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
175
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:28:00 -
[107] - Quote
we are being freed from the shackles of being hilariously rich and now that we are only very rich we are at our most dangerous! |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
163
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:29:00 -
[108] - Quote
man am i glad all our technetium stocks were in jita and the batsignal went out in time |
Lord Zim
1030
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:29:00 -
[109] - Quote
The tears are strong with this one.
Fiberton wrote:You mean they may have had prior knowledge before the invastion because of some ccp or ex ccp were in the CFC ?.. say it is not so ? Tippia wrote:In before GÇ£but all those lower-tier moons are in newly claimed CFC space! Raaahrr CCPSwarm!GÇ¥
|
MurKoN Kador Mahyisti
EVE Undertakers
0
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:31:00 -
[110] - Quote
It is about time that Goonies and NC. stopped being allowed to dominate the game with their tech gold mines!
It should be something like PI, so that each person can make ISK from it - not just the luminate of eve Groups of players should be able to make more between them (like mining fleets), corps make even more with corp bonuses, alliances make more with bonuses - and of course; low and null make more from higher % (risks)
Gumpy Nighthawk wrote:Also if this means that you guys are going to manipulate the market then well you might as well remove the complete economy.....
Of course they are! EVE is to make RL money, it is not a FREE service - the more taxes and guaranteed losses (high risks) = more GTC bought ...all about maths unfortunately! but from a business point of view, can't blame them!
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Kosmoto Gothwen
Frenemy Logicians
0
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:31:00 -
[111] - Quote
Funny that people would scoop up cobalt since the alchemy reaction is still at a loss lol.
I developed a tool awhile back for moon goo profitability, I don't have these new alchemy reactions in the output (I'll wait to see it implemented first). But if you want to know current fair market prices check it out: http://www.forum.frenemylogicians.com/moonGooru.php |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
350
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:35:00 -
[112] - Quote
I don't get it... So we will be able to substitute rare items for common ones?
What's the advantage of using rarer/expensive materials? For example, will an absolution manufactured using expensive material have a better tank?
It would be cool to have a player controlled "build quality" and perhaps branding, built into the game. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
124
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:41:00 -
[113] - Quote
The best solutuion to everyone flying a Battlecruiser is to adjust the price of T2 cruisers to be at least competitive with the price of a battlecruiser considering the small if any increased performance of a T2 cruiser over a battlecruiser for the same job. And frequently the battlecruiser is better than the T2 cruiser. Add reasonable insurance and I think a lot more people would fly the T2's than are flying them now. T2 cruisers are just priced out of the market for what they bring to the table. Particularly Caldari T2 Cruisers. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
157
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:42:00 -
[114] - Quote
OTEC in roo-ins.
Decent first step, more interested in the long term plans to change the way moon mining / resource gathering in general is fixed... because it needs fixing.
hey while you're at it, how about throwing ice into wormholes. Thousands of systems having no ice at all (while the dirty hisec bears have it) makes no sense. |
Retmas
Grim Determination Clockworks Inc. Nulli Tertius
10
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:43:00 -
[115] - Quote
too damn cute that cobalt replaces tech, and is primarily found in the regions the CFC just roflstomped. |
Soto ShinDo
HeroinPixelSpace
8
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:45:00 -
[116] - Quote
Spurty wrote:Jarin Arenos wrote:Out of curiosity, when was the last time someone actually threatened CFC's tech sov? Like... legitimately, not just trolling. Would need to be : A) - Equal in size (Have a chance at success) B) - Not have space already (Have a need to fight) C) - Not be blue to them (or a pet, Merc) There is no such entity, nor will there be with zero barriers capping point C. Healthy for EVE?
LOL - NCDot. member whining about OTEC. Hilarious!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8623
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:47:00 -
[117] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:I don't get it... So we will be able to substitute rare items for common ones?
What's the advantage of using rarer/expensive materials? For example, will an absolution manufactured using expensive material have a better tank? It will make absolutely no difference for the Absolution GÇö it'll be the exact same ship built the exact same way (wellGǪ until they fiddle with the component BPOs).
Alchemy simply lets you GÇ£manufactureGÇ¥ certain moogoo products GÇö mainly on the GÇ£processedGÇ¥ level GÇö through a somewhat circuitous route by slapping completely different moongoo products together than you usually would. In the end, you still end up with the same basic materials (e.g. platinum technite), and brew advanced materials from them as usual.
In T1 terms, it would be like if you could create Isogen by banging Veldspar and Scordite together really hard, rather than go out and mine Omber. In the end, you just end up with Isogen, and it makes no difference when you build ships from it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Shantetha
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:48:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nice first blog, but this wont even dent tech prices and odds are it will only drive them higher. Why not push tech fixing to the top of the pile for things to do and drop a major patch fixing it all at once? |
Rivver
Legions Ltd
0
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Posted - 2012.07.19 15:49:00 -
[119] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:OTEC in roo-ins.
Decent first step, more interested in the long term plans to change the way moon mining / resource gathering in general is fixed... because it needs fixing.
This really changes nothing. It simply introduces a price cap. You won't see much of a difference.
How many people do you know actually do Alchemy? |
Lord Zim
1030
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 15:49:00 -
[120] - Quote
Tippia wrote:In T1 terms, it would be like if you could create Isogen by banging Veldspar and Scordite mmm miner-ore threesomes |
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