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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
237
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Posted - 2012.07.19 16:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've returned from a hiatus from the game and picked up an idea while looking over the changes since I left. What if mining, both moon and normal, were tossed out and we started from scratch? What would be the best way to approach it? Moon mining supports stagnation in null sec and the giant blue circle jerk. Active mining with barges promotes botting because of how unbelievably dull it is. But perhaps there is another way.
I am of the opinion that moon mining should be deleted entirely. I've held this belief for years and I doubt I'm alone in this. It should be replaced with gravimetric sites and mined conventionally with ships. However, this is a maddening exercise in boredom. So boring that many miners risk bans to bot it instead. So let's make the bots official and in game instead.
No, this isn't what you think.
I'm suggesting we make mining barges AI ships under the indirect command of players. Players take the role of fleet commanders and the barges are AI units under their command. The player can tell them which rocks to mine, for how long, when to jettison ore or move it to an orca as well as when to dock/warp to POS. They would behave much like "pets" in other MMO's or AI squad mates in tactical FPS like Arma2. The player would have to be present on grid, and would have to issue orders frequently. This might be more interesting and would allow the player to take this command role from a combat ship, rather than an industrial of some sort. Thus automatically providing the mining fleet with at least one escort ship by default.
A player's mining skills in such a system would work as they do now, except they would be applied to the AI ships under his command. The AI mining/industrial ships would be bought and sold just as they are now. Fittings would be the exact same way. A player could even pilot them himself if he wanted. But he could make them AI units without penalty and fly something else if he wanted instead.
I'll admit this is a pretty big chunk of programming, but I think it's worthwhile. It could be applied to combat ships too of course, but I think mining would be a more conservative place to start. It also raises some balancing concerns and questions such as how many of these "pets" could one player have under his command at any given time. But I those are just details that could be experimented with and worked out later. The Troll is trolling. |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
171
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Posted - 2012.07.19 16:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Please see all the other "lets have wow pets" threads to view the overall negative responses.
I understand that you and a lot of other people consider mining to be very boring but introducing "pets" is not the way to go about fixing it.
The whole point of eve is player interaction. Even if you say "well, it means you can be in a combat ship to protect your mining pet" you're missing the point. That's no less boring than mining yourself and actively promotes solo gameplay which isn't good for the game as a whole. It's an MMO, after all. The idea is to have friends to watch your back.
-1 to introducing pets to eve, even if it was quite cleverly couched as something else. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
50
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Posted - 2012.07.19 17:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tchulen wrote:-1 to introducing pets to eve, even if it was quite cleverly couched as something else.
Such as alts? |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
581
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Posted - 2012.07.19 17:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Tchulen wrote:-1 to introducing pets to eve, even if it was quite cleverly couched as something else. Such as alts?
Except that alts are actual pilots in the game. What op is proposing is quite different. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
66
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Posted - 2012.07.19 17:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Tchulen wrote:-1 to introducing pets to eve, even if it was quite cleverly couched as something else. Such as alts? Except that alts are actual pilots in the game. What op is proposing is quite different.
I think the troll just promoted bots............ I am seriously thinking of stopping to visit the forums. This is insanely stupid.
I can has Murloc bot please?
Edit: Actually on this moronic line: I demand, yes demand, a system where I can also have a mission ship do missions for me while I do other stuff. Oh wait, I will need a ship system that also allows me to do Incursions too. Oh wait,I now demand a wormhole one too. Oh wait, I demand one for PvP tooooooooooooo.
Arbitrary demands never make sense and tend to ignore the whole 'choice' in this sandbox. Have a cookie for making bots legal. |
King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
237
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Posted - 2012.07.19 17:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
And what exactly is wrong with adding these mining pets? They'd obey the same rules as player ships. You get your pet hulks together, I suicide gank them, steal loot with my alt, you cry. It doesn't alter the circle of life in eve, only alters the way mining is done. It won't make eve WoW, PI and incursions already did that. The Troll is trolling. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
66
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Posted - 2012.07.19 17:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:And what exactly is wrong with adding these mining pets? They'd obey the same rules as player ships. You get your pet hulks together, I suicide gank them, steal loot with my alt, you cry. It doesn't alter the circle of life in eve, only alters the way mining is done. It won't make eve WoW, PI and incursions already did that.
I did not know WoW makes you lose your armor and weapons when you die. |
Dersen Lowery
Knavery Inc. StructureDamage
51
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Posted - 2012.07.19 17:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Emperor Salazar wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Tchulen wrote:-1 to introducing pets to eve, even if it was quite cleverly couched as something else. Such as alts? Except that alts are actual pilots in the game. What op is proposing is quite different.
He's essentially proposing colossal mining drones. Smaller ones already exist, and can be launched from a combat ship without issue. Their yields are comparatively poor, but that's a fair price for convenience.
The difference between a bot and a mining alt in an backgrounded window is not quite academic, but it's as close as you can get in EVE. (And if you want to consider that an alibi for botting, knock yourself out. I'll laugh when the banhammer comes down on your head.)
As far as I'm concerned, if OP wants AIs to mine for him, the game already provides them and he's free to use them. |
King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
237
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 18:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
I actually have zero interest in mining, I'm more interested in the potential tear extraction factor. Anyways, my idea is a bit different from drones since they would not be launched from your ship. They would be regular player ships, only piloted by AI units instead. Come to think of it, they should mine less than the player but I envision this as the main form of mining rather than players doing it themselves. The way I figure it, if piloting 1 hulk is super boring, maybe piloting 5 at the same time would be slightly less boring. It could be illegally botted either way, but then so can missions, incursions and probably even PvP if you really wanted to. Eve just isn't a very complicated game from a control standpoint. The Troll is trolling. |
FireT
Royal Advanced Industries Imperial Hull Tankers
66
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Posted - 2012.07.19 18:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:I actually have zero interest in mining, I'm more interested in the potential tear extraction factor. Anyways, my idea is a bit different from drones since they would not be launched from your ship. They would be regular player ships, only piloted by AI units instead. Come to think of it, they should mine less than the player but I envision this as the main form of mining rather than players doing it themselves. The way I figure it, if piloting 1 hulk is super boring, maybe piloting 5 at the same time would be slightly less boring. It could be illegally botted either way, but then so can missions, incursions and probably even PvP if you really wanted to. Eve just isn't a very complicated game from a control standpoint.
Deal. Your moronic idea is allowed as long as it auto aligns to nearest starbase and auto warps if a ship is within X km of it. Also, I get kill rights on you for killing my pixalated NPCs WITHOUT you knowing whose NPC mining barge you destroyed.. |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
801
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Posted - 2012.07.19 21:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
King Rothgar... I still maintain great respect for you for the ballsy things you did back in FW... but this idea... no. Just walk away. It is beneath you. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
832
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 23:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
One of your assumptions is mining is so boring miners want to bot it. CCP data says that is just not true. When asked, over 50% of players said they somewhat like or very much like mining.
http://eve-files.com/dl/255173
The botters are those few who do not like ISK making activities but feel entitled to have ISK anyway. (Among other reasons). http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Apollo Zanzibar
The Black Legionnares SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.19 23:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
I like the idea being able to control another ship in your account,,,same as drones ,,What would it hurt to beable to do this?I saw someone said it would not promote individual playing ,,,well if you have more then one account and played by yourself it would be same as another ship..I also see the universe being crowded,,,space should be more empty then not and i usually see someone in every system most of the time with in an hour..rats in 99% of the systems ,they should have some zero sec systems that do not have rats come as often...some people do not always want to fight..some like to trade, and build,,mine,and explore...where can you go where no man has gone before in eve???let it happen... |
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks The Omega Industries
172
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Posted - 2012.07.20 09:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Apollo Zanzibar wrote:I like the idea being able to control another ship in your account,,,same as drones ,,What would it hurt to beable to do this?I saw someone said it would not promote individual playing ,,,well if you have more then one account and played by yourself it would be same as another ship..I also see the universe being crowded,,,space should be more empty then not and i usually see someone in every system most of the time with in an hour..rats in 99% of the systems ,they should have some zero sec systems that do not have rats come as often...some people do not always want to fight..some like to trade, and build,,mine,and explore...where can you go where no man has gone before in eve???let it happen...
No. You want another ship but don't want friends, get another account.
Whilst CCP make so much money out of alt accounts pets simply won't happen so stop with the whining. |
Raphael Celestine
Galactic Trust Inc
10
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Posted - 2012.07.20 12:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
This makes no sense at all from an RP/lore perspective.
Gallente scientists did in fact once try to make ships that could do exactly this: the results are better known as 'Rogue Drones', and considered by most of New Eden to have been a really bad idea. CONCORD has more-or-less banned all advanced AI research since then, so there's no explanation for where this development could have come from either. (One of the pirate factions, possibly, but the Blood Raiders don't seem the type to be investing in mining R&D)
That's not to say that you couldn't come up with a justification for it, but as things stand this proposal runs almost exactly counter to the background CCP has established. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Buster's Salvage Transport and Recycling Service
1977
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 13:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't like this idea. However, I'm going to run with it for a bit because I'm bored:
Introduce a carrier-based industrial capital ship that would control a new class of mining drone. This industrial carrier would have a large ore hold (maybe 100k m3), a ship maintenance array similar to the orca's, and very little cargo space. It would NOT provide mining boosts in its own right and its fitting options would be very limited. A new gang link for mining drones might be added as well.
The Orca would retain its role as mining booster and primary hauler, as it would be able to carry twice as much as this new carrier.
The new mining drones might each yield about half that of a retriever, but would cost significantly more. I'm not sure whether I'd have them be able to work off-grid from the carrier. That would allow the miner to hide easier by not being in the belts, but at the same time they would be giving up yield due to warp times.
If I *had* to do something with the OP's idea, it would look something like this. Not autonomous pets, but a drone boat designed to get the best mining yield in game, can only be used in dangerous space, and requiring a high level of skills and cross-training. You don't casually train to this thing; it would require significant mining, capital, and drone skills.
Good stuff: - your top-level miners would also have most of the skills the need for flying combat carriers. - it could do some ninja mining, as something like this *should* have a jump engine.
Bad stuff: - When doing the best with a bad idea, the outcome is bound to be bad. The Skunkworks is recruiting. -áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1540711#post1540711 |
Hiyora Akachi
Bling Ring Tax Evaders
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 13:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
I propose only Supercarriers be able to do this.
It seems logical that a carrier that big could field a mining barge or two.
But only them, the Drone bandwith is used for communications with the AI miners.
Supercarriers - EvEs newest Miners |
King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
237
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 15:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
When I said AI, I meant the ships would be under AI control from a programming standpoint, not lore. On the lore end of things, these would be completely normal human controlled ships. Those humans simply wouldn't be capsuleers (players). So they would be like fighters and fighter bombers with the only real difference being that actual players could hop in and take control (in a station or near a ship maintenance bay). The Troll is trolling. |
Apollo Zanzibar
The Black Legionnares SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.07.22 16:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
I do think the mining drones should beable to mine more and faster... |
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