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Soltiar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.02 20:35:00 -
[1]
Hello I might be sort of new but I was wondering what exactly is happening in the Amarr Vs. Minmatar Faction Warfare? and why exactly are the Minmatar losing plexes and territory all of sudden right now?
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.07.02 20:55:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Ralnik on 02/07/2010 21:01:14 In the past Amarr have always had a more dominant plexing force after down time, which is when it matters the most. Minmatar for the most part never really cared about plexing but still managed to keep Amarr DT plexers at bay because of a small group of dedicated plexers.
Recently the Pervs whom were the major plexers for Caldari, were getting their butts kicked on the plexing front over in the Caldari v Gallente front because it seems most of Caldari didn't like plexing anymore. They have since moved to the Minmatar vs Amarr front joining the Amarr to secure another easy medal it appears.
Adding to this I think one or two of the dedicated Minmatar plexers switched sides to the Amarr and at least one other left FW all together, which pretty much gives Amarr free reign to go win a medal. Not to down play any Minmatar, that are still trying hard, but they are just out numbered in a big way and plexing is a numbers game.
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Oddymandius
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.07.02 22:44:00 -
[3]
It doesn't help that Pervs fly around in faction-fit Dramiels and Fleet cruisers while the Mimatar post-DT gangs are mostly comprised of Tech 1 frigates and thrashers.
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Gymm
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Posted - 2010.07.04 16:54:00 -
[4]
Eran Mintor switched sides from Minnie to Amarr a few months back. Post DT hasn't been the same since.
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Dunn Idaho
Caldari Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.07.04 17:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Oddymandius It doesn't help that Pervs fly around in faction-fit Dramiels and Fleet cruisers while the Mimatar post-DT gangs are mostly comprised of Tech 1 frigates and thrashers.
Ship up then...
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Sneaky Noob
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.07.04 18:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dunn Idaho
Originally by: Oddymandius It doesn't help that Pervs fly around in faction-fit Dramiels and Fleet cruisers while the Mimatar post-DT gangs are mostly comprised of Tech 1 frigates and thrashers.
Ship up then...
yeah cause that's gonna happen...
also, plax plex plix plox plux.
The Sneakiest Noob in all of EVE |
Cardinal Bladfard
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Posted - 2010.07.05 06:52:00 -
[7]
most of the amarr are just bored and go plexing while the minnis spin their crap fitted ships in auga waiting for cpt vag*na to build a huge blob (wich fails afterwards).
the minnis then jump around in their t1 fitted thrashers and get beaten up by us.
exception are ice f*g warrior. their ships are lolfitted aswell but at least you can loot t2 from them.
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Ophias
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Posted - 2010.07.05 11:56:00 -
[8]
PERVS swapped from Caldari to Amarr.
They spend all their time plexing. They are very good at it.
The End.
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Sneaky Noob
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2010.07.05 15:38:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cardinal Bladfard most of the amarr are just bored and go plexing while the minnis spin their crap fitted ships in auga waiting for cpt vag*na to build a huge blob (wich fails afterwards).
the minnis then jump around in their t1 fitted thrashers and get beaten up by us.
exception are ice f*g warrior. their ships are lolfitted aswell but at least you can loot t2 from them.
I recommend Anger Management.
The Sneakiest Noob in all of EVE |
Lord Meriak
Amarr Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.07.06 09:53:00 -
[10]
The Amarr, still the smallest miltia,
All this we dont want not bothered about plexing always comes from all sides when few systems our lost.
The amarr organised force.
The mins also run round in faction ship frigs & crus. dam fast ones.
This is the best conflict with the best history.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2010.07.06 10:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 02/07/2010 21:01:14 In the past Amarr have always had a more dominant plexing force after down time, which is when it matters the most. Minmatar for the most part never really cared about plexing but still managed to keep Amarr DT plexers at bay because of a small group of dedicated plexers.
Recently the Pervs whom were the major plexers for Caldari, were getting their butts kicked on the plexing front over in the Caldari v Gallente front because it seems most of Caldari didn't like plexing anymore. They have since moved to the Minmatar vs Amarr front joining the Amarr to secure another easy medal it appears.
Adding to this I think one or two of the dedicated Minmatar plexers switched sides to the Amarr and at least one other left FW all together, which pretty much gives Amarr free reign to go win a medal. Not to down play any Minmatar, that are still trying hard, but they are just out numbered in a big way and plexing is a numbers game.
We got buts kicked? No we did not. Gallente did not get any systems by fightning for those. Main reason why gallente got systems _back_ was that PERVS reduced defence alt plexing and CCP balance game over point where systems can be recaptured back in couple hours.
My opinion is that FW is just unplayable now, too many 'balanced' thing has happened since dominion: - pirate faction ship boost ruined pvp in plexes, it is pirate faction or death. - you can not remote rep your corp mates if they get gcc, you will lose your faction standing - Plex Spawn balance, captured systems have 5-10 plex / down time, so if you own like all systems (like Caldari did) you need 500+ alts to plex those in 20min after dt.
Fact is that 90% plexing is done under 50 characters, and half of those are still alts.
Minmatar/Amarr FW could be fun but minmatar does not want to lose their t1 fitted ships so there is no fw at all.
PERVS is taking systems by 1-10 guys and minmatars are beaten, so brave warriors minmatars are. You should remember that when we took all gallente systems you invited us to minmatar front where real pvp is, can we have it now?
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Ospie
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.07.06 11:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 02/07/2010 21:01:14 In the past Amarr have always had a more dominant plexing force after down time, which is when it matters the most. Minmatar for the most part never really cared about plexing but still managed to keep Amarr DT plexers at bay because of a small group of dedicated plexers.
Recently the Pervs whom were the major plexers for Caldari, were getting their butts kicked on the plexing front over in the Caldari v Gallente front because it seems most of Caldari didn't like plexing anymore. They have since moved to the Minmatar vs Amarr front joining the Amarr to secure another easy medal it appears.
Adding to this I think one or two of the dedicated Minmatar plexers switched sides to the Amarr and at least one other left FW all together, which pretty much gives Amarr free reign to go win a medal. Not to down play any Minmatar, that are still trying hard, but they are just out numbered in a big way and plexing is a numbers game.
We got buts kicked? No we did not. Gallente did not get any systems by fightning for those. Main reason why gallente got systems _back_ was that PERVS reduced defence alt plexing and CCP balance game over point where systems can be recaptured back in couple hours.
My opinion is that FW is just unplayable now, too many 'balanced' thing has happened since dominion: - pirate faction ship boost ruined pvp in plexes, it is pirate faction or death. - you can not remote rep your corp mates if they get gcc, you will lose your faction standing - Plex Spawn balance, captured systems have 5-10 plex / down time, so if you own like all systems (like Caldari did) you need 500+ alts to plex those in 20min after dt.
Fact is that 90% plexing is done under 50 characters, and half of those are still alts.
Minmatar/Amarr FW could be fun but minmatar does not want to lose their t1 fitted ships so there is no fw at all.
PERVS is taking systems by 1-10 guys and minmatars are beaten, so brave warriors minmatars are. You should remember that when we took all gallente systems you invited us to minmatar front where real pvp is, can we have it now?
I'm going to go out and agree with this. For a while Amarr have had a number of strong corporations joining it which have led to the strongest fighting force it's had in a while, however the majority of Amarr militia has not been too interested in plexes outside of the actual combat opportunities they create.
What this has meant is that the Minmatar have really become quite demoralized, to the extent that the majority of the Minmitar militia you see active these days are pretty much the same core group and not much outside of it.
This has of course left the way open for PERVS to come in and do what they do best, which is plex fighting. The Minmatar lack experience against their style of play and tend not bring ships capable of competing at the level set by PERVS. Hence the huge increase in systems being captured by the Amarr.
Ultimately it boils down to a currently strong Amarr Militia and a demoralized Minmatar militia.
The lack of attention from CCP towards FW doesn't help things either and I can certainly relate to the points brought up by Bad Messenger. One that particularly pains me is the RR 'balance' that means any of my own corp mates repping me lose faction standings (both 24th imperial and more importantly Amarr standings) which seems absurd, particularly as once the standings are gone there are no more bonuses to be gained from being re-promoted. Anyway rant paragraph over :P
I really hope the minnys manage to sort themselves out soon, they've been showing a bit more heart lately, so hopefully things are improving here. |
Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2010.07.06 14:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ospie This has of course left the way open for PERVS to come in and do what they do best, which is plex fighting. The Minmatar lack experience against their style of play and tend not bring ships capable of competing at the level set by PERVS. Hence the huge increase in systems being captured by the Amarr.
As said in other thread, bulk of the PERVS have already gone away to do different things. So system capture will probably slow down and perhaps be reversed. such is life in FW.
I mean, 21th last month was when minmatar last time brought a fleet against PERVS gang. After this it was mainly quiet. So then people started doing other stuff as can be seen on our killboard. Hell, I solo ganked wt orca in high-sec yesterday instead of keeping eye for plexes.
Damar Rocarion
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Dunn Idaho
Caldari Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.07.06 14:01:00 -
[14]
Your just saying that cause you dont want fix your sec stat ospie :P
But yeah, the whole RR and standing drop combined with no way of getting it back up trough FW is compleatly f°cked up imho. (we should all unite against ccp there)
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Jones Bones
Final Agony
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Posted - 2010.07.06 16:48:00 -
[15]
I still don't understand how you guys can plex. Just treat FW as a "free" war dec.
But your missions do give out sweet, sweet LP.
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Neu Bastian
Minmatar Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2010.07.06 17:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ospie
I really hope the minnys manage to sort themselves out soon, they've been showing a bit more heart lately, so hopefully things are improving here.
You do know that Core Impulse's ability and willingness to hot drop their cap fleet is a determining factor when it comes to the Minmatar Fielding Battleships fleets, don't you?
Quote:
Neu Bastian Valklear Guard - CEO
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Torothin
Shadow Morning
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Posted - 2010.07.06 22:49:00 -
[17]
Everyone loves to hotdrop.....
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Dred'Pirate Wesley
Amarr Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.07.06 23:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Neu Bastian
Originally by: Ospie
I really hope the minnys manage to sort themselves out soon, they've been showing a bit more heart lately, so hopefully things are improving here.
You do know that Core Impulse's ability and willingness to hot drop their cap fleet is a determining factor when it comes to the Minmatar Fielding Battleships fleets, don't you?
Hmmm, I seem to remember a time not very long ago at all when the minnies were doing all the cap ship hotdrops and bs fleet titan bridging whilst the amarr were lucky to get a 20 man t1 crap gang together because every time they did they got dropped and roasted. So, is it no fun anymore now that the playing field was not only evened but possibly skewed in amarr favor? If so then sorry mate but you guys started the whole escalation buisiness so htfu and sleep in the bed you made. YAAAARRRR! Where's Buttercup?! |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Wesley Hmmm, I seem to remember a time not very long ago at all when the minnies were doing all the cap ship hotdrops and bs fleet titan bridging whilst the amarr were lucky to get a 20 man t1 crap gang together because every time they did they got dropped and roasted. So, is it no fun anymore now that the playing field was not only evened but possibly skewed in amarr favor? If so then sorry mate but you guys started the whole escalation buisiness so htfu and sleep in the bed you made.
I seem to remember them hotdropping 40 BCs onto 3 Cruisers........ It was so amazingly dumb.
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Ospie
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.07.07 01:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Neu Bastian
Originally by: Ospie
I really hope the minnys manage to sort themselves out soon, they've been showing a bit more heart lately, so hopefully things are improving here.
You do know that Core Impulse's ability and willingness to hot drop their cap fleet is a determining factor when it comes to the Minmatar Fielding Battleships fleets, don't you?
This would only apply during the euro TZ when we can actually foot those sort of cap numbers, during the rest of the day I'd be first to admit we're very short staffed for that type of fight.
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Kyo Haku
Minmatar Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2010.07.07 04:08:00 -
[21]
The Pervs switched, as several have said, as well as perhaps the best plexer in the game. (my corp does a LOT of plexing, but he always beat us, singlehandedly). This coupled with 90% of the Matari militia not giving a **** about plexing, and we lose systems. But these things tend to cycle, we'll bounce back in a few months. -- "Far be it from me to stand in judgment. I prefer to sit." -Stephen Colbert |
Pokechan333
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Posted - 2010.07.07 04:58:00 -
[22]
It's funny how the minnies complain about the amarr dropping caps. We regularly see minmatar caps undocking from auga 3rd, almost all the time, yet they complain and never drop them on us
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2010.07.07 06:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
We got buts kicked? No we did not. yadda yadda yadda
You have to know I was trolling you on the plexing don't you? I had to do something in response to my lovely Cane getting killed by your Pimpin Ballgobblen and McDaddymriel.
However since you brought up, I must suggest that you reap what you sow. I'll reply to a few of tof your complaints.
- You complain that Pirate ships have ruined plexs..
Yet oddly enough, you guys pretty much always fly Pirate ships in plexes. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe if you ship down to something "less" ubber that you might get fights in plexes? I know it's a odd concept, but hey try it for once.
- You complain the Minmatar don't ever fit any good ships to come fight you.
Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the spying & Metagaming have helped cause some of this? I'll give you an example..
I haven't been active on the Minmatar front for awhile, but since I've come back I see a lot less random Minmatar gangs roaming around. Admittedly I was a bit behind on the knowledge of your spies and the current regrowth of the Amarr after their exodus.
Well, there was a small Pirate gang bouncing around in Auga, (Mega & 4 BC). The typical late night crew that would have ordinarily eaten them up, were not un-docking to do so. I thought that was a bit odd, but whatever I think.
I'm not one to FC very often because I like my solo and general Militia fleets tend to be horrible, however since no one else stepped up I decided to do it.
I put a little gang together of 5 BC's a cruiser and 2 frigs which I felt was going to make for a decent fight, being we would have gate guns on our side the ship balance was good for a fun fight.
In between figuring out which random member was a Perv's alt and kicking him out of the fleet 2 or 3 times before I set him red so he couldn't rejoin.. The Genos guys came in and killed the Mega and the 4 BC's buggered off leaving our little gang with nothing to fight.
The whole time of course your little Minmatar Pervs spy is watch our gang like a hawk and nothing we can do about it, because as we all know FW mechanics are gay.
Well fast forward a bit and we decide to go see if there is anything to shoot in Kourm. I felt bad having guys gang up and have to deal with the spy **** only to get blue balls and not get to shoot our guns.
We find some random Amarr Harbi with a few other Amarrs in system so I'm think hey maybe he's bait and we can get a fight. (Harbi was just some random noob that got ganked)
Well like a open book that I should have seen coming from a mile away, here come Pervs with a Bhaalgorn, Machariel, Sleipnir with you in a lol Caracal and another in a Thrasher for god sportsmanship I guess.
You guys managed to get my Cane and another Cane so props to you for good gank. However if you wanted GFÖ would you really have brought 2 Pirate BS to kill a few BC's?
You guys knew what we had and what our target was, prior to it getting killed by 2 Genos Tengu's. Hell, I even said it in fleet while your Perv spy alt was still in gang, that I was purposely keeping the gang small and not taking a bunch of X's so we could get a decent fight.
Yet for what ever reason you still showed up with 2 uber Pirate BS, a Command ship and the lol support (to keep it "fair" I guess).
Yet, you still wonder why Minmatar are not coming to give you GFÖ? You knew our exact fleet composition. You could have easily shown up in some BC's and had a GFÖ and likely gotten another fight in the future.
Now I'm just one less guy that is going to form a gang to come fight, because it's much easier to go out have fun soloing than deal with the BS of spies and making myself a giant bulls eye.
I guess I should thank you TBH, I was going to start FCing some fleets from time to time because I can see Minmatar is in need. However you showed me exactly why I avoided it in the past.
TY and hope you get some GFÖ.
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.07.07 07:30:00 -
[24]
PERVS play FW to "win" (putting it in quotation marks because, well, you can't win that, but the spirit is the same). They use every trick there is to play it well. Plexing with tons of alts, using standings to make it easier (not as much as they used to), using the best ships there are for the job (pirate ships), using spies in the hostile militia for protection and better intel, using post-DT plex shuffle to their fullest advantage (I still have no idea how they can get the people to consistently fight then, it's absolutely impossible for me to be there regularly), etc.
Can't blame them. That's how FW works - they just do exactly what needs to be done to utilize the FW mechanics to their fullest advantage. FW needs fixing, badly. You know a game mechanic is bad if even the people who currently can use it to the fullest agree that it's silly. |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2010.07.07 08:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Bad Messenger We got buts kicked? No we did not. Gallente did not get any systems by fightning for those. Main reason why gallente got systems _back_ was that PERVS reduced defence alt plexing and CCP balance game over point where systems can be recaptured back in couple hours.
My opinion is that FW is just unplayable now, too many 'balanced' thing has happened since dominion: - pirate faction ship boost ruined pvp in plexes, it is pirate faction or death. - you can not remote rep your corp mates if they get gcc, you will lose your faction standing - Plex Spawn balance, captured systems have 5-10 plex / down time, so if you own like all systems (like Caldari did) you need 500+ alts to plex those in 20min after dt.
Fact is that 90% plexing is done under 50 characters, and half of those are still alts.
Minmatar/Amarr FW could be fun but minmatar does not want to lose their t1 fitted ships so there is no fw at all.
PERVS is taking systems by 1-10 guys and minmatars are beaten, so brave warriors minmatars are. You should remember that when we took all gallente systems you invited us to minmatar front where real pvp is, can we have it now?
Bless, those systems were lost because it was CCP's fault. Not the fact that the Pervs just got jaded with having to do it all the time.
I also like the fact that in your list of things that are wrongwith FW, you list the number of alts required to be used after DT. Wasn't it your corp who claimed that the level of activity post-DT had no bearing on the capture of plexes?
However, you are correct with that list. Plexing is little more than a distraction in FW, so I can't see it ever getting fixed. Ironically, if more people spent time doing it, it might warrant more attention, but most people avoid it because there is so little to be gained from it (and don't say many fights happen in plexes, as few people stay and fight in them, and only then when they outnumber the incoming force, or have the NPC rats on their side).
I will freely admit that the Pervs are very, very good at what they do. If there's any exploit that can be found, they will find it. They will invest the sheer number of man hours into the game in order to win this unwinnable aspect of FW. And they are also competent PVPers (I hesitate to say good, for I never see them take on an equal or superior force), although their tactics are solely gank-n-run.
They are difficult to counter because lowsec mechanics are weighted towards avoidance, and they are willing to invest the time and effort into a game mechanic few people really care about. It really matters to them (and this is probably why the loss of the Caldari systems is CCP's fault, not their own), whereas most people play the PvP aspects for fun. To show how much they care, just watch their trolling routines. Trolls only do what they do to provoke other people because they emorage themselves. This is why they cannot resist posting responses to anything, rather than doing the normal thing, which is to shrug your shoulders and move onto something else.
It should also be said that the Minnie/Amarr side of the FW divide does look a little staid at the moment. The Minnies need to ship up, and the Amarr need to stop dropping capitals on frigates. The trouble is, until this changes, it's liable to remain the same. You have to ask yourselves: what matters more? Do I get into combat, have fun and possibly lose, or is losing just so painful that I can't possibly risk it? I'm not saying you have to throw yourself on their guns, hell I expect you to flee from a superior force, but you do need to get out of your comfort zones. Surely it is better o hop into T1 and fight more frequently, then it is to fly T2 and be permanently scared of losing it? |
Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2010.07.07 10:26:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ratchman (I hesitate to say good, for I never see them take on an equal or superior force), although their tactics are solely gank-n-run.
I really need to ask where does this myth come from. PERVS has repeatedly taken on enemy forces while massively outnumbered and emerged as winner. The reason for other sides defeat always seems to be (as said in this forums repeatedly) either because npcs, other side does not properly fit their ships or dont fly them properly but never anything PERVS might do.
It's really getting quite tiresome so lets give it a rest. Also, I dont approve BM's smack in this thread.
Damar Rocarion |
Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2010.07.07 10:48:00 -
[27]
I used to plex when bored just for something to do.
Now I don't even bother with them unless there is a fight to be had and I can't find action elsewhere.
Many others in Minmatar militia feel the same, we just log on for a few hours to PvP. Why spend all that time orbiting a random structure that, when captured, gains you virtually nothing? |
Flashh Gorden
COLD-Wing
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Posted - 2010.07.07 14:09:00 -
[28]
What's hapened to all the so called freedom fighters like SF and UK. Both these entities have been supported by militia fleets in the past.
Could it be the struggle for freedom is not quite so important when there is no personal gain and space to be owned?
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.07 14:29:00 -
[29]
The Amarr/Minmatar front has been characterised by ebbs and flows since day one of FW.
Right now, the Amarr have the upper hand, but I'm sure that in a few months people will be asking why they're again on the back foot.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Dunn Idaho
Caldari Core Impulse
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Posted - 2010.07.07 14:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rodj Blake The Amarr/Minmatar front has been characterised by ebbs and flows since day one of FW.
Right now, the Amarr have the upper hand, but I'm sure that in a few months people will be asking why they're again on the back foot.
I doupth it, allthough a welcome a change of pace from the minnie side.
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