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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion
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Posted - 2010.07.06 21:17:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
The Sleepers agents of chaos and conflict, which is why they created the rogue drones. (Obviously inspired by the Shadows from B5)
Umm Im pretty sure the Gallente created the rogue drones. Someone needs to check the chronicles, but I remember reading the gallente were putting more intelligent AI into their drones then one day ooops, rebellion! Why do you think most of the drones look like dominixes?
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Saul Dhampir
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.06 21:38:00 -
[32]
Interesting. On examining a number of Talocan structures a few references are made to what look like holding facilities, suggesting either prison or medical.
I had been thinking that perhaps the Talocan social offshoot of humanity had based itself upon slavery, perhaps even more so than the modern Amarr. However this does suggest medical facilities of some kind.
As a side thought, perhaps they where seeking to cure the Jove?
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Probing Sam
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Posted - 2010.07.06 21:44:00 -
[33]
**Spoiler alert**
Sleepers are the first jove empire....
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CCP Dropbear
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Posted - 2010.07.06 22:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Eventy One
Originally by: Abrazzar My hypothesis was that the Jove ...
What's your take on CCP Dropbear's suggestion that player's haven't fully discovered all there is to discover about wh space?
Is there still story to be discovered? (that is in fact discoverable)
I think it's not only a matter of finding all puzzle pieces, which we may or may not have found, but also in putting them together the right way. Considering that we don't know how the picture is supposed to look like, the latter may be the more challenging effort in this whole story.
Indeed.
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Salria Usenheart
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Posted - 2010.07.06 22:12:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Salria Usenheart on 06/07/2010 22:16:24
Originally by: Probing Sam **Spoiler alert**
Sleepers are the first jove empire....
Nope, backstory states they both had space based empires during the 12000 years before the current races regained space flight.
We know there was a war, Joves won. Some sort of bioplague is suggested due to quarantine zones, or something that irradiated entire solar systems (perhaps the WH weapons were that damaging). The "sleepers" seem to have gone into cryostasis to preserve the remains of their race with sleepers left to guard them but somewhere in the past 20k years something went wrong, they didnt revive or something and all thats left is the drones guarding the remains of their installations, even after the 1st Jove Empire fell after the Shrouded times.
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Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.07.06 23:06:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Gecko O''Bac on 06/07/2010 23:11:24 I haven't had much experience with sleepers myself, but reading these threads and looking at the screenshots provided I think a fair reconstruction of what may have happened is possible... Probably others have arrived to my same conclusions, and one guy in one of the old threads pretty much said what I'm going to say (though since that thread is old as noah, it's perhaps worthwhile to post my ideas anyway).
The Quarantine Zone offers quite a lot of info for us. For instance it tells us very clearly that the Sleepers were not always drones: http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Oruze_Enclave_DIR.jpg Otherwise the residential blocks wouldn't be needed. Also, if Oruze means something akin to "mansion", it's pretty clear that the Oruze Enclave basically is the "residential quarter" of this complex. I think it's interesting that residential quarters are sided with possibly high energy labs (which though seemed all based on getting energy from a star).
The Medical Enclave is even more interesting: http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Medical_Enclave_DIR.jpg We have the normal facilities any hospital has (triage, emergency...), but a good FOUR different quarantine zones, one of which spans a lot of sectors. This spells something very clearly: a pandemic was in effect. Possibly, 4 different pandemics. Or rather, 4 different strains of the same virus, evolving from strain A, to B, to the highly infective C and finally (I guess, from the single sector compared to the previous entire blocks) the very lethal strain X. This smells to me like a bioengineered virus, with the purposes of biological warfare and apparently aimed at strict genocide. Which brings us to:
The Biogenetics Research Enclave: http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Research_Enclave_BioGenetics_DIR.jpg It appears that the Sleeper's precursor race was very interested in studying cryogenics and its application to humans. The animal cryogenics seems like the first step in the research for human cryogenic stasis. The student classes seem to indicate that the interest in this field of study was heavy. The de-animation genealogy escapes me. It's a library as well, so it seems that the field wasn't new at the time, or at least there was already literature on the subject. Still, I can't make any sensible hypothesis about this. Anyway this, along with the Sleeper name, seems to indicate that this race went into willing stasis to escape (or slow down) the effects of a devastating disease.
The two genetics research are very interesting to analyze what may have become of the race (and what were its plans): http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Research_Enclave_VirtualGenetics_DIR.jpg http://asbalon.as.funpic.de/Bilder/Eve/New/Research_Enclave_TheoreticalGenetics_DIR.jpg The Virtual genetics seems to indicate that some kind of study was under way, something that possibly tried to integrate a human brain (perhaps a non-conscious or non-functional one) into a virtual intelligence. Or perhaps (maybe it's even more likely) they were simply trying to reverse engineer brain functions from what they had available, to create some kind of artificial intelligence. There are hints that this intelligence was to have a specific objective, something probably much more complex than just "defending" the place. Both the non-natural teleology and virtual mutation point to that. Emergent systems seem to be the way they tried to accomplish that. The Theoretical Genetics enclave further works on this, putting the emphasis on data generation and agent collaboration, with genetic algorithms and neural networks. Also, the intelligence was to be self replicating (proliferation statistical analysis suggests this, though it may point to the proliferation of the disease, as it is cited as a "news item" in the Comm Enclave )
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Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.07.06 23:07:00 -
[37]
Reserved
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Winters Chill
Amarr Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.07.06 23:30:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Winters Chill on 06/07/2010 23:34:51
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
The speculating in those threads has no basis in the known back story. The ancient races came through the worm hole from Earth. They had a huge war using WH weapons and came close extinguishing each other and all life as well.
The apparent winners where the Jovians and what we call sleepers retreated into wormholes. The sleepers probably didn't call them selves that, and it's unclear if from the prime fiction if who they are the remnants of which culture. It could be the previous-history of one current empires or one of the lost ancient races.
The Jovians develop the younger races through nurturing them. (Obviously inspired by the Vorlons from B5)
The Sleepers agents of chaos and conflict, which is why they created the rogue drones. (Obviously inspired by the Shadows from B5)
The remaining ancient races are obviously inspired by various ancient Earth Cultures. Talocan (Aztecs), Takhaml (India) and Yan Jung (China) and obviously being held in reserve for when the sleepers become stale.
Nothing you said here makes any sense or is infact correct.
Go play all four of the cosmos constellations first; which have detailed stories regarding the first 4 races (there are infact 7 "first races" - incidentally the amarr where active enough to destroy the takmahl {this is detailed in the amarr cosmos constellation missions)) also have a gander at the chronicles while you are at it.
The Amarr empire isn't what it appears to be - lasers kill but so does the truth.
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Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.07.06 23:42:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Winters Chill
Nothing you said here makes any sense or is infact correct.
Go play all four of the cosmos constellations first; which have detailed stories regarding the first 4 races (there are infact 7 "first races" - incidentally the amarr where active enough to destroy the takmahl {this is detailed in the amarr cosmos constellation missions)) also have a gander at the chronicles while you are at it.
The Amarr empire isn't what it appears to be - lasers kill but so does the truth.
There should be some place to gather all this info... I know EVE Background is great, but even though I've been playing since 2005 I was never able to get anything but a small and hazy picture of it. For instance, COSMOS constellations aren't exactly all accessible (or, well, interesting to me for that matter).
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Winters Chill
Amarr Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition
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Posted - 2010.07.06 23:56:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Winters Chill on 06/07/2010 23:59:15 Edited by: Winters Chill on 06/07/2010 23:57:26
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Originally by: Winters Chill
Nothing you said here makes any sense or is infact correct.
Go play all four of the cosmos constellations first; which have detailed stories regarding the first 4 races (there are infact 7 "first races" - incidentally the amarr where active enough to destroy the takmahl {this is detailed in the amarr cosmos constellation missions)) also have a gander at the chronicles while you are at it.
The Amarr empire isn't what it appears to be - lasers kill but so does the truth.
There should be some place to gather all this info... I know EVE Background is great, but even though I've been playing since 2005 I was never able to get anything but a small and hazy picture of it. For instance, COSMOS constellations aren't exactly all accessible (or, well, interesting to me for that matter).
You do have to actually read the mission blurbs to get the stuff, and who does that :P I tried looking at eve mission websites for the raw text of ancient race related missions but most are incomplete. The legacy items from COSMOS also offer clues.
You could collect the info on evelopedia under the heading: Origin of <Ancient Race> or something like that.
I like your precursor Idea. Im of the opinion the sleepers have ascended to or at least "recorded" themselves onto a virtual universe datanet/matrix that exists in a FTL computer network.
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Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:00:00 -
[41]
These "lost" background aspects to the game are wonderful to read and debate. While we players can only speculate, as strange as it sounds, the various small pieces hinted at throughout the years seem plausible to eventually reveal a whole picture of ancient history. Hopefully CCP will reveal fragments, throw curves, and outright contradict past aspects for years to come.
As for my small addition, I wonder if our ancient ancestors overall were quite large in bodily design. Every now and then there will be a mission or something other where you need to explore an old ship called a shuttle that makes your battleship appear insignificant...
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CCP Dropbear
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:07:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac There should be some place to gather all this info... I know EVE Background is great, but even though I've been playing since 2005 I was never able to get anything but a small and hazy picture of it. For instance, COSMOS constellations aren't exactly all accessible (or, well, interesting to me for that matter).
You might be surprised by how much other players have already started down that path of archiving and collecting.
For Sleeper-specific information gathering, I might suggest this project by Pottsey, although it seems the thread of Ghost Hunter's linked in the OP has sort of usurped it (my bad, Potts...). In more general terms, there's the "Lorebook".
There's also multiple forums that archive this sort of information. The chatsubo forum (the older of the two prominent RP forums) has a wealth of information in its Bookshelf section, just as the newer Backstage forum has in its CCP Public Library.
Happy reading and contributing, if that's your kinda bag, baby.
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Darth Kilth
Minmatar DRAMA Inc
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:14:00 -
[43]
The problem with the known history of EVE is that not much is known, as obviously the victory writes the history and if there was a war the Jove won. Taking this it would mean that their history might be completely different then the reality or that of the 'sleepers'. Also lot's of history usually get's lost over the ages. And even if the Jove still possess their complete, unaltered and unbiased history they will not share it with us.
Originally by: CCP Capslock OH GOD THE TESTING
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Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac There should be some place to gather all this info... I know EVE Background is great, but even though I've been playing since 2005 I was never able to get anything but a small and hazy picture of it. For instance, COSMOS constellations aren't exactly all accessible (or, well, interesting to me for that matter).
You might be surprised by how much other players have already started down that path of archiving and collecting.
For Sleeper-specific information gathering, I might suggest this project by Pottsey, although it seems the thread of Ghost Hunter's linked in the OP has sort of usurped it (my bad, Potts...). In more general terms, there's the "Lorebook".
There's also multiple forums that archive this sort of information. The chatsubo forum (the older of the two prominent RP forums) has a wealth of information in its Bookshelf section, just as the newer Backstage forum has in its CCP Public Library.
Happy reading and contributing, if that's your kinda bag, baby.
Thanks for sharing, though it kinda reinforces my PoV :P Scattered information is useless information :D I'll try to make some sense of it all between one gang and the other
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Iree
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:35:00 -
[45]
I wonder if the possible pandemic is related to the Kyonoke pit virus. Interestingly the Sansha have been active in wh space and what do you know, this turns up
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1343639 |
Salria Usenheart
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:50:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Winters Chill Edited by: Winters Chill on 06/07/2010 23:34:51
Nothing you said here makes any sense or is infact correct.
Go play all four of the cosmos constellations first; which have detailed stories regarding the first 4 races (there are infact 7 "first races" - incidentally the amarr where active enough to destroy the takmahl {this is detailed in the amarr cosmos constellation missions)) also have a gander at the chronicles while you are at it.
The Amarr empire isn't what it appears to be - lasers kill but so does the truth.
The Takmahl arent actually an ancient race, its been an issue with the calling them the ancient races, some parts screw up the eve timeline. As far as we can tell it was sometime after the amarr expanded to near the Azaz const, but before blood raiders were formed around around a few thousand years ago, but not truly ancient, but ancient in relation to when players step in, but not as ancient as the Jove or Sleepers (and presumable for the talocan's as well)
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Gecko O'Bac
H A V O C Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.07.07 00:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Iree I wonder if the possible pandemic is related to the Kyonoke pit virus. Interestingly the Sansha have been active in wh space and what do you know, this turns up
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1343639
THIS is the relevant chronicle for the kyonoke pit virus...
Well it's quite interesting in fact... Its lethality seems to conform with my hypotesis for strain X, while the different behaviour in some cases would explain perhaps for strain C, with A and B being possibly first stages in the evolution of the virus. Also, since it attacks in both strain C and X the brain, it'd explain the research lab on neurodegenerative illnesses in the quarantine zone complex. Still, if the virus was artificial in origin, how did it get to that mining station in the first place? Even if the virus itself was developed in N-space and not in W-space, it seems unlikely that such a powerful virus was just left loose like that. Perhaps there's something else behind all this.
On an unrelated note, I find it confusing the mix of Talocan and Sleeper references in WH. Perhaps the Precursors were in fact Talocans, but then the "Talocan Technology" entry in the archive enclave wouldn't make much sense.
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Saul Dhampir
Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.07 01:29:00 -
[48]
Gahhh. Too many parallel threads.
I recomend this one as the more comprehensive: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1314015
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Taedrin
Gallente Xovoni Directorate
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Posted - 2010.07.07 04:48:00 -
[49]
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Eventy One
Originally by: Abrazzar My hypothesis was that the Jove ...
What's your take on CCP Dropbear's suggestion that player's haven't fully discovered all there is to discover about wh space?
Is there still story to be discovered? (that is in fact discoverable)
I think it's not only a matter of finding all puzzle pieces, which we may or may not have found, but also in putting them together the right way. Considering that we don't know how the picture is supposed to look like, the latter may be the more challenging effort in this whole story.
Indeed.
Insert maniacal laughter here? ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.07.07 06:40:00 -
[50]
Eventy One said "All of this makes me wonder if the Jove weren't first at war with the sleepers, or the sleepers responsible for the Jovian disease in the first place." A lot of the recent theory's seem to be that the Jove, Sleepers and Talocans are all the same race. That's not to say you idea is wrong, perhaps there was a civil war which would explain "one fateful moment in their history made them lose this control for a few generations, and the results were catastrophic."
Imagine we are looking at the same race but at different evolution points. Perhaps the Sleepers are Jove from the 2nd empire, Talocans ships are Jove as well but from a different timeframe.
Its perfectly possible that what we are looking at are abandoned, lost or old Jove stuff and we are just accidently naming it all different things as we are not aware it's all Jove.
Jove have been around what 12,000 years? Pick out some items randomly from 5000's, 7,000 and 10,000 years. Would we recognise them as all Jove or would se start livening them all different names from a different reace?
I am sure the Talocan and Sleepers are either the same race or very closely linked. Not 100% convinced about the Jove but there are hints the Talocan/Sleepers are an offshoot of the Jove possibly from the 2nd Jove empire.
I am finding this a bit hard to explain. Imagine historian's come across a 4000 year old Jove Colony and a 6000 year old Jove colony. But call the 4000 year old colony Sleeper and the 6000 year old colony Talocan as they don't realise both are colonies from today's Jove. (just to be clear those numbers are made up its the idea I am trying to explain)
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2010.07.07 06:56:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Pottsey on 07/07/2010 06:56:32 http://www.scribd.com/doc/27571605 my collection of Sleeper lore, hopefully its of use.
"the sleepers responsible for the Jovian disease in the first place." I just remember some real old lore which I am not sure is even valid anymore
"The Elders were one of the first groups to use genetic engineering for a special purpose, namely that of slowing the aging process. Once, the Elders were a prominent political force in the Jovian society, but after they brought about the fall of the first Jovian empire they have become more reclusive. Elders can become many centuries old, it's uncertain exactly how old they can become, but some suggest they can outlive even members of the Amarrian royal families."
If I recall correctly the Jovian disease bought down the 2nd Jove Empire. Could be it be the Sleepers and Wspace are leftovers of the 1st Jove empire that the Elders somehow bought down?
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.07.07 07:17:00 -
[52]
Starting to think the collapse of the Eve gate was no accident. It was deliberate. All of Eve is a quarantine zone.
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Ghaylenty
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Posted - 2010.07.07 08:05:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Starting to think the collapse of the Eve gate was no accident. It was deliberate. All of Eve is a quarantine zone.
this thread is making me want to join a wh corp. badly. |
DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2010.07.07 08:40:00 -
[54]
The Jovian disease was caused by the Jovians themselves, due to centuries of cloning and making flawed copies of flawed copies. |
David Grogan
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.07 12:10:00 -
[55]
Originally by: DuKackBoon The Jovian disease was caused by the Jovians themselves, due to centuries of cloning and making flawed copies of flawed copies.
i still cant understand why a race would choose cloning over sex as a way to reproduce...........sex is fun ....cloning is boring SIG: if my message has spelling errors its cos i fail at typing properly :P |
Connie Focal
The Red Circle Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.07 12:42:00 -
[56]
If you're a complete control freak, the incredible amount of reassortment and randomness in sexual reproduction could drive you crazy.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.07.07 12:53:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Thanks for sharing, though it kinda reinforces my PoV :P Scattered information is useless information :D I'll try to make some sense of it all between one gang and the other
I would have loved if somebody else where doing this AND made a big enough fuss about it so the information always was easy assessable. But no...
Oh, if you want pieces for your puzzle I got a bunch here. Well, not much yet but it is a start.
Btw. I think the Talocan structures hint greatly that they were a nomadic and/or colonizing type of civilization. Perhaps simply early Terran colonizers. The Sleepers came by later to find something they should not have pocked their nose into.
---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
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RG3D
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Posted - 2010.07.07 13:00:00 -
[58]
The Jovian disease wouldn't require quarantine.
I think the creators of the sleepers tried to escape a plague by putting themselves on ice. Maybe all that's left are their guardians, or maybe some wake up and cause some mischief? They could be one of the indigenous non-human races. But there's no secret there, and it sounds like there is something we are missing.
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Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2010.07.07 13:03:00 -
[59]
i think the Talocans were the jove before the disease took them, so they started creating reaserch outposts beond the reach of moral eyes.
The sleepers created to protect the precious research, a hybrid of human and technology possibly driven by a brain freed from the disease, yet too damaged to be reanimated in a fresh human clone.
The Jove as they are now living with the disease in solitude waiting to hear from the wormhole research stations of a cure, each subsequent cycle of new offspring only adding to the sleepers numbers protecting the outside from the disease as much as the research within.
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Salria Usenheart
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Posted - 2010.07.07 13:19:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 07/07/2010 06:56:32 If I recall correctly the Jovian disease bought down the 2nd Jove Empire. Could be it be the Sleepers and Wspace are leftovers of the 1st Jove empire that the Elders somehow bought down?
Jove disease brought down the 1st Empire, it ruled for 9000 years before they edited their basic instincts and lost control of their population for several generations. This is called the shrouded times, we are in contact with the 2nd, seriously reduced Jove Empire still not recovered from the genetic modification.
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