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Hestia Mar
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Posted - 2010.07.09 10:51:00 -
[1]
Ok picture the scene - the pirate capsuleers is in his ship and makes an announcment to the ships crew..."AARRR you scurvy dogs... we are going to carry out a suicide gank on that hulk over there. We'll get concorded in about 20 seconds, but don't worry, I'll be in my next ship doing it again in a few minutes. Oh, did I mention its a suicide attack...that will be your suicide, not mine, because I have clones. Enjoy the afterlife. Thank You"
As anyone who knows anything about RL pirates would know, they are inherently democratic, though cowardly, institutions; democratic because the crew would vote on what to do (the captain could suggest not order), and get rid of the captain (usually through the combination of a sharp knife and the captains throat) if he didn't do what the crew wanted to do - and cowardly because if there was any real risk they would run away.
EVE pirates often post that risk = reward, but where is the risk for a pirate in Eve? There is none, because he accepts that he is likely to lose his ship, or deliberately loses it.
So how to address that issue in Eve? Simple - implement a 'reputation standing'; the more ships a captain loses (not just pirates, but any player) the harder it becomes to recruit a crew and therefore fly a ship.
I would also like to suggest that a new skill is set up, that of crew training, which could affect offensive, and defensive levels, plus flight skills. The crew training skill could be linked to the chracters' standings so tha that the higher your standings, the quicker a crew trains (which is what would happen in RL).
OK, I'm off to find a tin hat and a trench to hide in...
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Fumitsugu Sylwia
Guristech One Stop Research
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Posted - 2010.07.09 10:55:00 -
[2]
I would appreciate the opportunity for parrots, eyepatches and peglegs when Incarna arrives. Also the ability to attach a Jolly Roger to my Incursus. That's realism
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Hestia Mar
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Posted - 2010.07.09 10:57:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Hestia Mar on 09/07/2010 10:57:34 It would be a simple blood red flag most of the time - skull and cross bones came later
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LorenzoEDGE
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Posted - 2010.07.09 10:59:00 -
[4]
mostly pirates fly in fast frigates correct me if im wrong but to my knowledge frigates are one-man ships.
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Smabs
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Posted - 2010.07.09 11:07:00 -
[5]
So what you're suggesting is a game mechanic to make people even less willing to engage in pvp? As if it's not bad enough already trying to get a decent fight.
I'm sorry that you got suicide ganked. Actually I'm not. But even if I agreed that suicide ganking should be nerfed (I don't), I still don't think there's any reason to penalise people wanting to do pvp.
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Hestia Mar
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Posted - 2010.07.09 11:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Hestia Mar on 09/07/2010 11:12:34 POD = just you Frigate = Small crew Cruiser = More Crew BC = Larger crew BS = Thousands of crew Dread = 10s of thousands of crew Titan = 100s of thousands of crew
BTW I've not been killed or anything, its just an idea I've had for a while - but suicide ganking hulks isn't pvp, because pvp infers consent from both sides
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.07.09 11:13:00 -
[7]
Crew have escape pods as well, engine doesn't show them to prevent lag.
So why should the crew care as they'll be escaping as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards. |
Holby City
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Posted - 2010.07.09 11:40:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Holby City on 09/07/2010 11:41:07 .
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Kimet Ethonise
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Posted - 2010.07.09 11:44:00 -
[9]
Anyone doubting that frigates have crews should go read the Mission Description for Worlds Collide.
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Argus Kell
Gallente Silver Edge Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.09 11:45:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hestia Mar Edited by: Hestia Mar on 09/07/2010 11:12:34 POD = just you Frigate = Small crew Cruiser = More Crew BC = Larger crew BS = Thousands of crew Dread = 10s of thousands of crew Titan = 100s of thousands of crew
BTW I've not been killed or anything, its just an idea I've had for a while - but suicide ganking hulks isn't pvp, because pvp infers consent from both sides
Where is it you're getting that information about the ships (I'd imagine its from novels and the like but I've never read them and I'm genuinely interested). Also, PVP doesn't infer that at all. PVP literally infers Player Versus Player. Nothing more. I'm not a pirate but I like the risk of being suicide ganked. I like being jumped and having to escape; it's what makes Eve such an interesting game to me... always a risk.
I don't think its fair to try and impose your own opinion of PVP on a game that you can already see has a clear direction it is taking with its PVP that many (including the developers it seems) are more than happy with.
I also don't think you can viably stretch the standards of modern or historic pirates to cover the pirates of the theoretical Eve universe any more than you can stretch the military tactics of Napoleon's soldiers to the soldiers of Star Wars or Battleship Galactica.
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Feiticero
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Posted - 2010.07.09 12:32:00 -
[11]
I would like to see the following mechanic implemented to reduce griefing of young players:
Every time you pod kill a player more than 1 year younger than yourself your Charisma attribute is reduced by an increment, gradually culmulating as you evil deeds multiply.
Eventually there would be a mechanic to earn back this charisma by doing 'pirate community service' whereby those gate campers would have to act as scouts for carebears flying through lowsec.
In addition, should your evil pirating deeds remain unrectified by the aforementioned good deeds then eventually Errol Flynn will spawn in an invulnerable frigate and destroy you.
Feiti
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Hestia Mar
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Posted - 2010.07.09 12:51:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Hestia Mar on 09/07/2010 12:58:00
Originally by: Argus Kell
Originally by: Hestia Mar Edited by: Hestia Mar on 09/07/2010 11:12:34 POD = just you Frigate = Small crew Cruiser = More Crew BC = Larger crew BS = Thousands of crew Dread = 10s of thousands of crew Titan = 100s of thousands of crew
BTW I've not been killed or anything, its just an idea I've had for a while - but suicide ganking hulks isn't pvp, because pvp infers consent from both sides
Where is it you're getting that information about the ships (I'd imagine its from novels and the like but I've never read them and I'm genuinely interested). Also, PVP doesn't infer that at all. PVP literally infers Player Versus Player. Nothing more. I'm not a pirate but I like the risk of being suicide ganked. I like being jumped and having to escape; it's what makes Eve such an interesting game to me... always a risk.
I don't think its fair to try and impose your own opinion of PVP on a game that you can already see has a clear direction it is taking with its PVP that many (including the developers it seems) are more than happy with.
I also don't think you can viably stretch the standards of modern or historic pirates to cover the pirates of the theoretical Eve universe any more than you can stretch the military tactics of Napoleon's soldiers to the soldiers of Star Wars or Battleship Galactica.
You can't have it both ways - if this is me 'imposing my opinion of pvp on others', then if I choose not to be involved with pvp then you can't impose your desire to do so on me...because it then becomes a form of bullying.
I was using the comparison with old-time pirates because it can be argued that EVE is a role playing game, and if you're role playing as a pirate then my original post is 'valid'.
In any case I still think the wider issue of 'crew training' as a skill is a good one, and none of the respondents have critiscised it.
BTW I've been playing for about 16 months, but not with this character which is maybe what has consused some of the respondents
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Jones Bones
Final Agony
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Posted - 2010.07.09 13:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hestia Mar but suicide ganking hulks isn't pvp, because pvp infers consent from both sides
lolwut?
You don't "get" EVE.
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Syekuda
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2010.07.09 13:32:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Syekuda on 09/07/2010 13:33:34 If you read this story (yes reading as in letters from A to Z) among many others, your single pod controls the whole ship. No crew needed afaik. I didn't read all the stories but from what I know, your pod can control everything. So your crew idea doesn't make any sense. But it's a good idea to have other bonuses since it would make sense.
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Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
ISAAC ASIMOV |
Hestia Mar
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Posted - 2010.07.09 13:45:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Hestia Mar on 09/07/2010 13:50:49
Originally by: Jones Bones
Originally by: Hestia Mar but suicide ganking hulks isn't pvp, because pvp infers consent from both sides
lolwut?
You don't "get" EVE.
Well, I might not 'get' your EVE, but I'm not playing your Eve, I'm playing mine.
I know it goes against the pvp myth, but pvp is a minority part of the game given more prominence than it deserves - you only have to read the pvp'ers whining posts because its difficult to do solo pvp anymore.
But that takes the argument off track - the original post was to discuss introducing risk to piracy - but maybe some pirates are scared of that?
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Jones Bones
Final Agony
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Posted - 2010.07.09 13:52:00 -
[16]
Risk to piracy?
You're talking about suicide ganking. Of which their are numerous risks and guaranteed ship loss.
Who am I kidding, you're trolling or extremely naive.
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Astald Ohtar
Tous Pour Un Une Pour Tous
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Posted - 2010.07.09 13:56:00 -
[17]
i just buy tones of salves for my boat to work as crew members, why do i need charisma?
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Torothin
Shadow Morning
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:03:00 -
[18]
Piracy is not suidice ganking. Suicide ganking is suicide ganking. Piracy is being in low-sec, empire, or 0.0. Locking down a ship taking him into hull and demanding a ransom for his ship. Or kill his ship and ransom the pilots pod. That is piracy in it's finest form. Just thought I would clarify things for the idiots out there. There seem to be several in this thread......
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siC0 b0b
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:07:00 -
[19]
I don't understand why is an image of a "pirate" in this game same as in Peter Pan fairy tales, child books and cartoons in general. Read about modern piracy and grow up.
Annother thing i don't understand is why isn't your character representing the whole crew, you don't have to operate ev'rything on a Titan, but you need the skills for it, same as you need skills to properly operate turrets with all the support skills, while in theory you're a captain. It's just a built in flaw, where there was a system made for playing internet space ships with some unwritten understanding of mechanics and after that ev'rything was built around it in novels and other papers.
If i ever had to put what this game gives me together, i'd assume that we're all just AIs doing ev'rything and there's no crew. I never read anything outside the game, however.
Lastly it was stated by someone from CCP that Frigates mostly don't have crews, only ships up higher do.
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Hestia Mar
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:21:00 -
[20]
Well, I've had my say so I won't post any more on the subject.
I do wonder though, how some of you lot actually hit any ships you're targetting, becuase you completely missed the point of the OP.
Ho Ho
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Novantco
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:36:00 -
[21]
No.
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Orimei
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:37:00 -
[22]
What you have to 'get' is that there isn't your Eve and my Eve. There is only one Eve.
And this one Eve which actually exists allows pvp any time and everywhere. If your total safety would be intended we would have some stupid **** like PvP flags or something.
So in fact 'your' Eve in which you are totally safe and never get 'griefed' (read up about griefing, please do) doesn't exist. Whereas 'my' Eve happens to be the real one where I can shot anybody, anytime.
+ I'm pretty that all this "Pirates in the 1700's were shipbound democrates" nonsense we hear about is revisionist history fueled by the romanticizing of Pirates in popular culture. If anything I can see an environment as in other lawless societies (gangs etc.) with the captain the gangleader, alpha male or however you want to call it. Pretty sure Blackbeard for instance did convince his crew that he was the devil himself.
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Absolom Hues
Gallente Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Syekuda Edited by: Syekuda on 09/07/2010 13:33:34 If you read this story (yes reading as in letters from A to Z) among many others, your single pod controls the whole ship. No crew needed afaik. I didn't read all the stories but from what I know, your pod can control everything. So your crew idea doesn't make any sense. But it's a good idea to have other bonuses since it would make sense.
You are partly correct... the pod pilot does control the ship, but according to the author below, there is still a crew for the maintenance of the vessel.
Aeon's short stories _______ Originally by: "Andracin" "you must realize the truth...there is no ship...then you will find that it is not the ship you fly that sucks...it is yourself..."
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siC0 b0b
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:39:00 -
[24]
Actually you have assumed that somehow you have a crew you don't have to supply or pay since day one where you can man a frigate, cruiser or a titan with it, with no effort and within seconds. That despite the fact cloning is so popular, your so called crew doesn't have access to it, that whenever a ship explodes only you escape meaning anyone who flies with you has no chance in combat and is actually flying a space coffin. AAAAAAAAANNNNNNDDDDD that flying a space ship is like a TV drama.
I just don't think you ever had a point.
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LadyZelda
Ordo Nigrorum Susurri Ordo Magna
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:42:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Syekuda Edited by: Syekuda on 09/07/2010 13:33:34 If you read this story (yes reading as in letters from A to Z) among many others, your single pod controls the whole ship. No crew needed afaik. I didn't read all the stories but from what I know, your pod can control everything. So your crew idea doesn't make any sense. But it's a good idea to have other bonuses since it would make sense.
And in one of the last sentences we find this: Pirkotan was not happy with the situation and while he was aware that many of the crew members felt the same way, he knew better than to complain. With these troubled thoughts on his mind, Pirkotan reached the bridge.
So what you imply is that the story tels about not having a crew as the pod controls the ship but, this sentence refers to a crew and reaching the bridge..... odd.
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Orimei
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Posted - 2010.07.09 14:50:00 -
[26]
That story is about the first Caldari trial of the Jovian pod technology. So of course this particular ship has a bridge.
Read these cronicles to learn about our present day crews: click click2
I sure don't see them have a say in anything.
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D DD
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Posted - 2010.07.09 15:03:00 -
[27]
Edited by: D DD on 09/07/2010 15:04:20
Originally by: Hestia Mar As anyone who knows anything about RL pirates would know, they are inherently democratic, though cowardly, institutions; democratic because the crew would vote on what to do (the captain could suggest not order), and get rid of the captain (usually through the combination of a sharp knife and the captains throat) if he didn't do what the crew wanted to do - and cowardly because if there was any real risk they would run away.
Don't we already have this from the standpoint of a corporation or alliance? If the FC/CEO/Director is a ******, people don't want to fly with him.
Originally by: Hestia Mar Simple - implement a 'reputation standing'; the more ships a captain loses (not just pirates, but any player) the harder it becomes to recruit a crew and therefore fly a ship.
How would one gain standings? Or, would it just be that after a while everyone (we all lose ships eventually) will not be able to fly anything?
Originally by: Hestia Mar
I would also like to suggest that a new skill is set up, that of crew training, which could affect offensive, and defensive levels, plus flight skills.
Don't we already have these?
Offensive: gun, drone, and missile skills. Defensive: shield, armor, and hull skills. Flight skills: navigation, spaceship command
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Eelis Kiy
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.09 15:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hestia Mar pvp infers consent from both sides
It's called the undock button. -----------------------------
>>where the frack is my ship?<< |
Argus Kell
Gallente Silver Edge Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.09 15:18:00 -
[29]
As always this is all just nonsense with an OP who won't discuss their ideas but will just argue for them. Eve Online has always been described as PVP game by the developers. Even in the respect of market PVP.
Realism isn't always best. Would you like it if your crew ditched you mid-mission because they were convinced it were suicide?
I don't see the need for any of the OP's ideas, even in regard to suicide ganking and to say that Eve Online isn't a PVP game is ridiculous.
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War Kitten
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Posted - 2010.07.09 15:26:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Hestia Mar
As anyone who knows anything about RL pirates would know, they are inherently democratic, though cowardly, institutions; democratic because the crew would vote on what to do (the captain could suggest not order), and get rid of the captain (usually through the combination of a sharp knife and the captains throat) if he didn't do what the crew wanted to do - and cowardly because if there was any real risk they would run away.
WTF??
First off, "RL pirates" refers to what? Movies? Novels? or do you know some Somali pirates off the coast of Africa that are actually operating today?
Secondly, no ship or vessel on land, air or sea, is run by a democratic process. You would crash, get lost or be shot down by the first opponent you encountered. One man leads, the crew follows him - not vice-versa. It's a dictatorship.
Quote:
EVE pirates often post that risk = reward, but where is the risk for a pirate in Eve? There is none, because he accepts that he is likely to lose his ship, or deliberately loses it.
Accepting the risk/loss is not the same as no risk.
Quote:
So how to address that issue in Eve?
No issue, no need. |
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