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Chesty McJubblies
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:14:00 -
[91]
Originally by: greentusk The only people who benefit from a plex being destroyed is CCP. There is absolutely zero reason for allowing plexes to be transported.
This is change for the sake of change. There's zero need for this. "We don't want some items to be special". ffs.
I'm neither for or against this change, it's just pointless. Apart from the bolded part above.
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Im Blue
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:22:00 -
[92]
i dont use plex's so this is just the observation of a player.
ccp ceo dude- we need more money
ccp staff dude- well there are these things called plex's. 5000euros worth get traded every hour in jita.
ccp ceo dude- well why cant we charge more for them.
ccp staff dude- well my idea is this. lets make the cash cows explode each others plex's. they then need to buy more plex's to replace the plex's they already paid us for.
ccp ceo dude- brilliant. extra cream from the cows, i love it
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Ocularus Xenos
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:27:00 -
[93]
I think it's a good thing. Special items are bad. Blowing things up and watching the players reactions is good, it's the essence of eve. No item and no person should be immune.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:28:00 -
[94]
CCP has simply provided another mechanism to prove you are stupid.
Try not to prove them right this time.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Chesty McJubblies
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:29:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Ranger 1 CCP has simply provided another mechanism to prove you are stupid.
Try not to prove them right this time.
With a nice side effect for their balance sheet, too.
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Destruct0
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:30:00 -
[96]
Ah the tears, how they shine. Out comes the capsuleer, with a glass of whine.
Ok I shall rhyme no more :P Also I couldnt care less about a PLEX because,
1. I am not DAFT enough to undock with a PLEX. 2. I have absolutely no reason to undock with a PLEX, a PLEX in a transport is commonly known as "gankbait" 3. Yes, CCP does directly stand to benefit if the said PLEX was destroyed by some eebil piwate(citation needed) but only if said PLEX owner is the captain of a failboat. 4. You guys have forgotten the golden rule of EVE. Never undock in/with something you cannot afford to lose. As soon as your undock that ****/ship...its as good as gone.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:31:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 09/07/2010 21:36:42 Ok...
So CCP want to remove the "special status" that players gave to Plexes. Well, I don't care. But as long than Plexes are the ONLY item who can be bought using real money to a GTC in this game, and also the only one who can be "redeemed", they will KEEP their "special status", whatever they do.
But apparently, it is more interesting than expected... After all, they successed to find maybe like one hour to (try to) change the "special status" of an item, and write a dev blog about it. But THEY STILL FAIL TO FIND FIVE FRAKKING MINUTES TO CORRECT ROCKETS who are screwed since 22 MONTHS ?
I don't understand how they work _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment |
Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:39:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/07/2010 21:45:18
Originally by: Chesty McJubblies
Originally by: Ranger 1 CCP has simply provided another mechanism to prove you are stupid.
Try not to prove them right this time.
With a nice side effect for their balance sheet, too.
If, and only if, you are indeed stupid.
Sky Marshal:
Quote: So CCP want to remove the "special status" that players gave to Plexes. Well, I don't care. But as long than Plexes are the ONLY item who can be bought using real money to a GTC in this game, and also the only one who can be "redeemed", they will KEEP their "special status", whatever they do.
All items in game can be bought using real money to purchase a GTC and then selling the resultant plexes. What part of that don't you get. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:45:00 -
[99]
its a beautiful piece of social experimentation,
take a week, count the number of accounts that got popped hauling plex around, divide by total accounts,
instant percetage of Asinine morons in eve,
though i suspect this is also a case of people exploding when they read line 1 and not finishing the reading, as the you can move and loose them is first then every subsequent line in the blog says you never have to move them ever and its your problem if you doofus,,,
to the person who put its the same as trashing a plex by dumbfoolery, yes exactly so, id consider undocking with plex in hold to be an attempt to trash plex with more drama and explosions Me? im just sitting here,
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Bankoff DarkFusion
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:49:00 -
[100]
Just canceled the last of my 3 accounts. I feel pounds lighter knowing that I am getting this game out of my life. I might have stayed longer if I hadn't started reading the forums. Maybe the bullying in the game is not "real" but the bullying on the forums certainly is. Good luck to all the carebears.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:54:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Bankoff DarkFusion Just canceled the last of my 3 accounts. I feel pounds lighter knowing that I am getting this game out of my life. I might have stayed longer if I hadn't started reading the forums. Maybe the bullying in the game is not "real" but the bullying on the forums certainly is. Good luck to all the carebears.
If you can't understand that a plex has no value once created, outside of worthless game currency, then perhaps this was a wise move. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:55:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Ori Blake
Originally by: Akita T If you buy a 35$ cigar in an air-tight package. Scenario A : you light it, then go take a shower after taking the first puff, when you come back the cigar burned itself out Scenario B : you open the seal, leave the cigar on your porch to go do something else for a while, a sudden rain comes over and ruins it, soaking it all wet and dragging it through the mud Scenario C : you keep the package in your pocket, and on your way home some thief picks your pocket and steals it ... you don't scream at the tobacco shop for not being able to use the cigar as you intended, do you ?
ONCE REDEEMED, PLEX are in-game items, and they should not be treated any different from any other items. BEFORE REDEEMING a PLEX, they are for all practical intents and purposes invulnerable. There are next to no logical reasons (and maybe just one convenience//laziness reason) for a person that PURCHASED a PLEX with RL-cash to ever put that PLEX in a position where it MIGHT become vulnerable.
Yeah, but that is accidental use common to life. This is something different entirely, making a feature which does nothing but increase the risk of loss.
It would be more like you having a favorite cigar shop. One day that shop for rent reasons moves from its old location to a new one that happens to be in the worst side of town. That area has a high risk of robberies. You go there, chances are someone might stick you up for your cigar.
It's not the same because no one forces you to transport plex, but no one also forces you to go to that shop, and there's little reason to since you can get the exact same kind at the local convienience store. I think then you have a case to be miffed at your favorite shop for making a bad move.
But I think in the end CCP would just do it and people wouldn't transport them anyways. I agree with you on the risk at that part. Transporting it you risk it yourself.
It is much more like a second shop opens up in the new location. Nobody prevents you from simply buying cigars from the old one, just as nothing prevents you from simply redeeming the PLEXes at the station you bought them. A new market opportunity opens up - interstation PLEX trade - with the associated risk of passing through the bad neighborhood. But once again, the old way is still here. CCP has not removed anything from the game. You can keep playing in the same way as before, keeping your PLEXes in the stations, and nothing will ever happen to them.
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Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:56:00 -
[103]
also responses to you wernt bullying mean or cruel (not like some replies to some people on other topics) merely pointing out how your big conspiracy to defraud people was untrue and incorrect
now if ccp had said you could only redeem plex in low sec or null, and only apply them in jita 4-4 then YES you would have been right because that would have been creating a situation where they forced you to put an object worth game time, bought using real money, in real risk, but they havnt and arnt, infact there will be less risk and obstacles to getting plex after the change so your fear and accusations are unfounded
oh and ps can i have your stuff ?
IM SORRY I COULDNT RESIST Me? im just sitting here,
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Elgaris Dukor
Caldari Femti Runa Eru ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.09 21:59:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Ranger 1
If, and only if, you are indeed stupid.
Its not a question of if an individual is stupid or not. But its a fact that there are more than enough stupid people arround and CCP knows that. Its one thing to scam people out of there in game assets but an completly other withdraw real and paid gametime from the (stupid) players. Its almost like if you could lose your Windows licence by clicking on the wrong button.
PLEXs are paid gametime. Removing them from the game in whatever way is not ok!
Elgaris.
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Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:04:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Elgaris Dukor
Originally by: Ranger 1
If, and only if, you are indeed stupid.
Its not a question of if an individual is stupid or not. But its a fact that there are more than enough stupid people arround and CCP knows that. Its one thing to scam people out of there in game assets but an completly other withdraw real and paid gametime from the (stupid) players. Its almost like if you could lose your Windows licence by clicking on the wrong button.
PLEXs are paid gametime. Removing them from the game in whatever way is not ok!
Elgaris.
however fundamentally your position is CCP has a duty to prevent players from doing something stupidly dumb and pointless,
by that logic, CCP will have to trap in stations or ban half the paying customers until they are statisfied they wont fly a fail fit or autopilot through lowsec etc etc Me? im just sitting here,
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:10:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/07/2010 22:10:55
Originally by: Elgaris Dukor
Originally by: Ranger 1
If, and only if, you are indeed stupid.
Its not a question of if an individual is stupid or not. But its a fact that there are more than enough stupid people arround and CCP knows that. Its one thing to scam people out of there in game assets but an completly other withdraw real and paid gametime from the (stupid) players. Its almost like if you could lose your Windows licence by clicking on the wrong button.
PLEXs are paid game time. Removing them from the game in whatever way is not ok!
Elgaris.
No GTC's are paid game time. A PLEX is simply an worthless icon ingame that allows you to sell or trade that time to another person. Once converted into a plex it is the same as any other ingame item.
If you wish to attach values associated with the real world cost of a GTC, then every item that you have ingame has a value in real money. That Hulk that just got ganked blew a $5 hole in your bank account. Because, by your reasoning, that Hulk could have converted into isk on the market and that would have covered part of the cost of a plex. However since ingame items have no value, and are in fact CCP property, Plex retain no real world value. Period.
On the other point, yes I am sure there are plenty of stupid people that will decide to move a Plex (despite all warnings). These are the same people that will lose the same "fictional value" as a plex many times over in other ingame assets due to the very same stupidity.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Shaalira D'arc
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:16:00 -
[107]
If you bought PLEX with isk in order to convert them into subscription time, this change does not affect your behavior. The transaction is still 100% secure.
If you bought PLEX with real-life money in order to sell for isk, this change does not affect your behavior. You can obtain the PLEX at any station you can travel to, and you can put it up immediately on the market. The transaction is still 100% secure.
If you bought PLEX with real-life money for subscription time for yourself or one of your friends, this change does not affect your behavior. PLEX can still be traded or contracted in station, and the transaction is still 100% secure.
Why the fuss?
The change merely permits PLEX to be moved out of station. If you're at all squeamish about real-life purchases being destroyed, you never have to do this.
Why have such a change? Several reasons, not necessarily CCP's own:
Game Philosophy: EVE is a sandbox. Fewer artificial restrictions elevate that goal. Items that are treated as different or special tend to subvert immersion.
Trade Opportunities: Haulers can transport PLEX across regions, traders can exploit market opportunities, speculators can stockpile PLEX in one location, crash the market, etc. The economic game is a huge part of EVE and this change integrates PLEX into that. For a well-financed trader, a PLEX is now merely another expensive commodity with its own cyclic demand and supply.
Player Flexibility: Let's say your character invested in a PLEX in Rens but never got around to using it (a buddy-invite subscribed, for example). Due to career decisions, roleplay, or politics, your character can no longer enter Matari space. You want to liquidate or barter the PLEX but you have no access to the station. Solution? Set up a courier contract, with collateral equivalent to the amount you want to sell the PLEX for.
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Cap II
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:25:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Cap II on 09/07/2010 22:32:18
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/07/2010 22:10:55
Originally by: Elgaris Dukor
Originally by: Ranger 1
If, and only if, you are indeed stupid.
Its not a question of if an individual is stupid or not. But its a fact that there are more than enough stupid people arround and CCP knows that. Its one thing to scam people out of there in game assets but an completly other withdraw real and paid gametime from the (stupid) players. Its almost like if you could lose your Windows licence by clicking on the wrong button.
PLEXs are paid game time. Removing them from the game in whatever way is not ok!
Elgaris.
No GTC's are paid game time. A PLEX is simply an worthless icon ingame that allows you to sell or trade that time to another person. Once converted into a plex it is the same as any other ingame item.
If you wish to attach values associated with the real world cost of a GTC, then every item that you have ingame has a value in real money. That Hulk that just got ganked blew a $5 hole in your bank account. Because, by your reasoning, that Hulk could have converted into isk on the market and that would have covered part of the cost of a plex. However since ingame items have no value, and are in fact CCP property, Plex retain no real world value. Period.
On the other point, yes I am sure there are plenty of stupid people that will decide to move a Plex (despite all warnings). These are the same people that will lose the same "fictional value" as a plex many times over in other ingame assets due to the very same stupidity.
Let me introduce you to a little concept called Opportunity Cost. CCP has created a de facto exchange rate of $34.95 for 600mil isk give or take. Regardless of how much CCP says it only goes one way, regardless of whether or not you have enough brain cells to realize it, an exchange rate is a two way street. You can jump up and down and scream about how in game items have no real monetary value but this flies in the face of objective reality and no more than thirty seconds of critical thinking will lead to this conclusion.
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Elgaris Dukor
Caldari Femti Runa Eru ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:26:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Elgaris Dukor on 09/07/2010 22:27:47
Originally by: Takashi Halamoto
however fundamentally your position is CCP has a duty to prevent players from doing something stupidly dumb and pointless,
by that logic, CCP will have to trap in stations or ban half the paying customers until they are statisfied they wont fly a fail fit or autopilot through lowsec etc etc
No, i think the fundamental misconception of CCP (and maybe you too) is that because a PLEX has a value equal to say a well fitted ship that it is the same thing to lose the ship or the PLEX. That is not that case. Even if the lost value is equal there are some fundamental differences: - The ship can be replaced by ingame activity (gathering resources and rebuilding the ship or hubting NPCs for the lost modules). The PLEX can not be replaced by any ingame activity. Once its lost it has to be purchased again or its gone forever. - The PLEX can be converted to gametime, which is a real life thing, the ship not. IF the PLEX is destroyed the paid gametime is gone too.
Maybe i should make an example. Case 1) Player A buys a GTC to convert it to PLEXs and sells them for isk to Player B. PLayer A buys a ship from that money and destroys it. => Player A has lost his ship but the paid gametime is still owned by Player B. Case 2) Player A buys a GTC to convert it to PLEXs and destroys them (in whatever way). => The gametime that has been paid for is gone. Neither Player A or PLayer B has it.
Elgaris.
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Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:33:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Takashi Halamoto on 09/07/2010 22:35:00 gametime is not a finite resource that must be hoarded and treated with care, the markets in empire are full of plex, more are added daily, probably hourly, and if gametime is destroyed or lost there is no net diminishing of eve because the supply exceeds demand
and so i assume you also believe plex should not be trashable so for instance evil market manipulator (tm) couldnt just go into jita today buy 100 and trash them all thus removing 3000days of gametime,
and your wrong from my point of view as player b who buys the plex for isk, if it is lost (which it wont i will be applying it in the station i buy it) i just make another 300mil isk and buy another one as there are plenty out there to buy so i as an end user DO subjectivly see them as being equal to isk in that ingame activity replaces them just like a ship
Me? im just sitting here,
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Cap II
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:33:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Elgaris Dukor Edited by: Elgaris Dukor on 09/07/2010 22:27:47
Originally by: Takashi Halamoto
however fundamentally your position is CCP has a duty to prevent players from doing something stupidly dumb and pointless,
by that logic, CCP will have to trap in stations or ban half the paying customers until they are statisfied they wont fly a fail fit or autopilot through lowsec etc etc
No, i think the fundamental misconception of CCP (and maybe you too) is that because a PLEX has a value equal to say a well fitted ship that it is the same thing to lose the ship or the PLEX. That is not that case. Even if the lost value is equal there are some fundamental differences: - The ship can be replaced by ingame activity (gathering resources and rebuilding the ship or hubting NPCs for the lost modules). The PLEX can not be replaced by any ingame activity. Once its lost it has to be purchased again or its gone forever. - The PLEX can be converted to gametime, which is a real life thing, the ship not. IF the PLEX is destroyed the paid gametime is gone too.
Maybe i should make an example. Case 1) Player A buys a GTC to convert it to PLEXs and sells them for isk to Player B. PLayer A buys a ship from that money and destroys it. => Player A has lost his ship but the paid gametime is still owned by Player B. Case 2) Player A buys a GTC to convert it to PLEXs and destroys them (in whatever way). => The gametime that has been paid for is gone. Neither Player A or PLayer B has it.
Elgaris.
The fault in your statement is where you say that a plex cannot be replaced in game. Simply rat up 300mil isk and the plex is replaced.
[yellow]Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes[ |
Elgaris Dukor
Caldari Femti Runa Eru ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:41:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Cap II
The fault in your statement is where you say that a plex cannot be replaced in game. Simply rat up 300mil isk and the plex is replaced.
No you are wrong here. You can rat 300m but that does not replace the PLEX. The PLEX is gone. You can buy an other one from another player but the first one stays gone. The only way to replave a PLEX is to buy a GTC and convert it into a PLEX. There is no ingame source of PLEXs.
Elgaris.
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Cap II
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:45:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Elgaris Dukor
Originally by: Cap II
The fault in your statement is where you say that a plex cannot be replaced in game. Simply rat up 300mil isk and the plex is replaced.
No you are wrong here. You can rat 300m but that does not replace the Ship. The Ship is gone. You can buy an other one from another player but the first one stays gone. The only way to replave a Ship is to buy a miner and convert it into a rocks and build the ship.. There is no ingame source of ships.
Elgaris.
No, you are wrong.
[yellow]Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes[ |
siC0 b0b
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:47:00 -
[114]
You convert GTC into a PLEX purely to legaly make ISK outside of the game, that's the reason this item was implemented. If you lose a PLEX to whatever reason, it's the same as losing an equal amount of ISK in any other way.
PLEX is only an item in the game that is valued in ingame currency and it rightfuly so is going to be treated as one. I'm inclined to believe that if CCP didn't incluce the part in their DevBlog about ragequitting, none of the complaining people would even speak up. This all sounds like an easily manipulated mob's rabble.
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Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:49:00 -
[115]
but there are more plexes out there and more can come into existence at any point the fact one specific unique combination of numbers that acts as a permit to continue to play in eve is gone is not important to the people using the plex, they only care that they have one,
Freki's/Imperial Apocs/Guardian Vexxor etc etc are unique a limited number exist and no mechanism for replacing them exists but they can be destroyed and when the last is gone, they are gone, forever
plexes cannot be created through ingame actions TRUE BUT they can be made to exist in game, ie they can be created, thus they are non unique and non finite
your position makes the false assumption that if an object is not creatable in game it is somehow unique and should be protected, but said item can still be made to exist Me? im just sitting here,
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Elgaris Dukor
Caldari Femti Runa Eru ParadoXon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:52:00 -
[116]
Originally by: siC0 b0b You convert GTC into a PLEX purely to legaly make ISK outside of the game, that's the reason this item was implemented. If you lose a PLEX to whatever reason, it's the same as losing an equal amount of ISK in any other way.
PLEX is only an item in the game that is valued in ingame currency and it rightfuly so is going to be treated as one. I'm inclined to believe that if CCP didn't incluce the part in their DevBlog about ragequitting, none of the complaining people would even speak up. This all sounds like an easily manipulated mob's rabble.
That is what CCP tries to tell us but that is just not true, sorry. The fact that you can convert the PLEX to gametime, which is nothing virtual but something very real, makes PLEXs a special thing.
Elgaris.
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Cap II
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.09 22:54:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Elgaris Dukor
Originally by: siC0 b0b You convert GTC into a PLEX purely to legaly make ISK outside of the game, that's the reason this item was implemented. If you lose a PLEX to whatever reason, it's the same as losing an equal amount of ISK in any other way.
PLEX is only an item in the game that is valued in ingame currency and it rightfuly so is going to be treated as one. I'm inclined to believe that if CCP didn't incluce the part in their DevBlog about ragequitting, none of the complaining people would even speak up. This all sounds like an easily manipulated mob's rabble.
That is what CCP tries to tell us but that is just not true, sorry. The fact that you can convert the PLEX to gametime, which is nothing virtual but something very real, makes PLEXs a special thing.
Elgaris.
Tell me, is it painful to be this stupid? Because if it isn't, it should be.
[yellow]Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes[ |
Takashi Halamoto
No Limit Productions Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:00:00 -
[118]
so because i can turn a plex into gametime it is special even if i dont do so?
if so i can turn 300mil into a plex, into gametime, so 300mil is special,
if so i can turn a Carrier into 600mil isk into plex into gametime so a carrier is special
once you equate a thing with an isk cost to being special all things that can be converted into said isk and the isk itself must be special by extension,
you treat a plex as a potential energy of time, and that temporal potential as being special, thus all things must be special because all things are a potential of time, Me? im just sitting here,
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Picadilly
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:01:00 -
[119]
A further step in the philosophy of "Your loss"
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Cap II
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.09 23:01:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Takashi Halamoto so because i can turn a plex into gametime it is special even if i dont do so?
if so i can turn 300mil into a plex, into gametime, so 300mil is special,
if so i can turn a Carrier into 600mil isk into plex into gametime so a carrier is special
once you equate a thing with an isk cost to being special all things that can be converted into said isk and the isk itself must be special by extension,
you treat a plex as a potential energy of time, and that temporal potential as being special, thus all things must be special because all things are a potential of time,
I can see how opportunity cost would be a hard concept for some people to grasp but good job outlining the idea.
[yellow]Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes[ |
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