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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:28:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 12/07/2010 12:27:57 No one mention "π (pi) = 3" yet? It would bring the discussion to a whole new level!
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:32:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Zaboth Garadath
So should this be allowed? As far as I can tell, many Christians would be really ****** with someone using their religion to deceive people with.
What do you think?
Some people would argue that all religons do this as a matter of course.
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Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:34:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Estel Arador Edited by: Estel Arador on 12/07/2010 12:27:57 No one mention "π (pi) = 3" yet? It would bring the discussion to a whole new level!
I kinda tried to hint it in my reply, but you do it better But I doubt geometry is comprehended by a lot of people replying here
========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
Fenris Ulfur
Bio Material Inc
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:37:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Fenris Ulfur on 12/07/2010 12:39:00 Edited by: Fenris Ulfur on 12/07/2010 12:38:10
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 12/07/2010 11:23:00
Originally by: Bond69 Badly written text
I have to say, the ones looking ignorant and ******ed are the Eve Online atheists. I've seen debates among some of the greatest minds of our time on this issue and on both camps and the jury seems to still be out, scientifically speaking. But some of you atheists seem to know something that even the most prominent atheists don't. The fact is you don't.
Oh, and a couple of you don't even seem to be atheists, but just very angry kids really ****ed off at God. You'd think that someone that doesn't believe in God would feel indifferent about this topic. Your insults and condescendence only proves that atheism is your religion. Quite ironic.
First of all I find your generalization of the EVE-online atheist community ignorant. Have you talked to all of us? No I think not. You make the same assumption that those childish people who have been bashing religion in this thread do, that every religious person is a fanatic.
My "religious" views, even though its so wrong on so many levels to say this, is methodological naturalism. If it can be quantified in an empirical study, that stands up against peer review, then it is real to me. All who say that science has disproven the existence of an etherial being, by disproving for example what the Bible states how old the earth is, have no real idea of what science stands for. Since there is no empirical evidence of a etherial being science can't prove or disprove its existance.
If on the other hand evidence would surface that could be accepted as reliable empirical data on the issue, all those who call them self a scientist, in one way or another, would have to accept that data as proof. That is the nature of science.
edit: spelling --------------------------------------------------------------------- "But rather than that you question my courage, let someone put his hand in my mouth as a pledge that this is done in good faith" |
Manipulator General
o.0
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:38:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Guilliman R Isn't religion all about deceiving and scamming people? I fail to see the issue.
lol.
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TheBlueMonkey
Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:41:00 -
[156]
See, it's not that I believe, disbelieve, or agressively disbelieve.
I just straight out don't care. If I die and that's it then that's just fine by me. If I turn up at heavens gate then groovey. If I have to burn for eternity then so be it.
what does that make me? Religeon wise? --
Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:43:00 -
[157]
Originally by: TheBlueMonkey
what does that make me?
...part of the MTV generation?
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BiggestT
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:46:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Bond69
Quote: Stop "preaching" your religion (atheism) to everyone else, else you're no better than those you satarise.
First get a clue what atheism is. And im not preaching, im "discussing" and laughing at religion.
No, Atheism is a religion. Monotheism is a religion. Polytheism is a religion. etc.
Your religion is that you have faith that God/gods do not exist and you follow that no matter what any one says.
Theres no problem being an atheist, but pretending like you know so much more than everyone else, or that you are so different is completely inaccurate. You've taken a belief stance that suits you and thats fine, but please don't impose that stance on others.
CCP should really lock this thread before people get too angry (though it may be too late) EVE Trivia EVE History
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Estel Arador
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Posted - 2010.07.12 12:59:00 -
[159]
Originally by: BiggestT Theres no problem being an atheist, but pretending like you know so much more than everyone else, or that you are so different is completely inaccurate.
Generally the people claiming to be atheists do know more than those who don't... A problem with those who take religious texts literally is that the evidence is against them. Often they deal with that by ignoring the evidence, which leads to a lack of knowledge. (How many people who deny the fact of evolution do so after a careful evaluation of the evidence?)
Free jumpclone service|1092 stations! |
Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.07.12 13:03:00 -
[160]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 I have to say, the ones looking ignorant and ******ed are the Eve Online atheists. I've seen debates among some of the greatest minds of our time on this issue and on both camps and the jury seems to still be out, scientifically speaking. But some of you atheists seem to know something that even the most prominent atheists don't. The fact is you don't.
Oh, and a couple of you don't even seem to be atheists, but just very angry kids really ****ed off at God. You'd think that someone that doesn't believe in God would feel indifferent about this topic. Your insults and condescendence only proves that atheism is your religion. Quite ironic.
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear. -Thomas Jefferson
In-game antics notwithstanding I tend to lean towards the following...
There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness. -Dalai Lama
Each to their own.
Peace.
----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Bond69
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Posted - 2010.07.12 13:42:00 -
[161]
Quote: Badly written text
There was (some) effort in that text!
Quote:
No, Atheism is a religion. Monotheism is a religion. Polytheism is a religion. etc.
Your religion is that you have faith that God/gods do not exist and you follow that no matter what any one says.
Theres no problem being an atheist, but pretending like you know so much more than everyone else, or that you are so different is completely inaccurate. You've taken a belief stance that suits you and thats fine, but please don't impose that stance on others.
Atheism is by definition lack of belief. But keep telling yourself that its same if it makes you feel better. Just dont do it in public. And i do NOT claim that gods do not exist 100% just as i do not claim that fairies do not exist. However knowing humanity and how religions came to be i can claim with fair certainty that gods and fairies do not exist. There is a chance of 0.000(lots of zeros)001% that religions got it right.
And im "imposing" my stance only due to religious claimes, ignorance and outright bs about atheists and what is actually known about universe and how it works. Religious publicly spew bs and dont expect rest of us to call out the bs? That is my reaction to dumb beliefs being flaunted, not spreading my own (lack of) beliefs.
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Krummi
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Posted - 2010.07.12 13:49:00 -
[162]
[Said with a bad Russian accent] There goes the neighbourhood
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Ana Vyr
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Posted - 2010.07.12 14:04:00 -
[163]
Seems like as good as scam as any to me, by which I mean, it looks like another lame attempt to scam the gullible.
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AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:02:00 -
[164]
Originally by: BiggestT No, Atheism is a religion.
No it's not you tool. The absence of religion is not a religion. It in the ****ing word: A(without)theism(religion/religious faith) Look it up.
What is next? You are going to call bald a haircolor? Or are you going to call not collecting stamps for a hobby?
We don't all need superstition to live, I know it must be hard for you religious mind to understand....but those are the facts.
Do some reading up: http://wiki.atheist.net/index.php?n=Atheism.Atheism
Is atheism a religion?
The answer depends on what is meant by religion. Religion is generally characterized by the conviction of the existence of a super human controlling power û called a god û as well as faith and worship?.
(It is worth pointing out that according to this definition, some variants of Buddhism? canÆt be considered a religion)
Atheism for sure isn't a belief in any kind of super human power. Neither is it characterized by worship. If one widens and actually redefines öreligionö to include atheism, then the result is that many other aspects of human behavior should also be called religious, such as studying science, participating in politics, and watching TV.
Some atheists answer this question by saying that atheism is a religion in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character... |
Spades Slick
Caldari Rookies Academy Elite
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:05:00 -
[165]
Originally by: AterraX
Originally by: BiggestT No, Atheism is a religion.
No it's not you tool. The absence of religion is not a religion. It in the ****ing word: A(without)theism(religion/religious faith) Look it up.
What is next? You are going to call bald a haircolor? Or are you going to call not collecting stamps for a hobby?
We don't all need superstition to live, I know it must be hard for you religious mind to understand....but those are the facts.
Do some reading up: http://wiki.atheist.net/index.php?n=Atheism.Atheism
Is atheism a religion?
The answer depends on what is meant by religion. Religion is generally characterized by the conviction of the existence of a super human controlling power û called a god û as well as faith and worship?.
(It is worth pointing out that according to this definition, some variants of Buddhism? canÆt be considered a religion)
Atheism for sure isn't a belief in any kind of super human power. Neither is it characterized by worship. If one widens and actually redefines öreligionö to include atheism, then the result is that many other aspects of human behavior should also be called religious, such as studying science, participating in politics, and watching TV.
Some atheists answer this question by saying that atheism is a religion in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby.
Someone needs to check the dictionary again.
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism
Quote: : belief in the existence of a god or gods
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Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:16:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Ressiv on 12/07/2010 15:17:38 Edited by: Ressiv on 12/07/2010 15:16:49
Originally by: Spades Slick
Someone needs to check the dictionary again.
http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/theism
Quote: : belief in the existence of a god or gods
Someone needs to learn how to combine:
Quote:
Main Entry: re+li+gion Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back ù more at rely Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices 3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
ù re+li+gion+less adjective
========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
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CCP Adida
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:22:00 -
[167]
Hey guys this is starting to become a debate on religions. Please get back on topic.
Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Heretica Dukat
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:25:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Drifter Spaceblade Care to show me where science ***** slapped Christianity? Go ahead and name ONE SINGLE TIME that science disproved the 2000 year old Bible. Because I can name many times where science PROVED the Bible right.
Obvious troll is obvious?
Please be a troll.... it hurts me to think humans can be this silly.
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Jumfat Kohlah
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Posted - 2010.07.12 15:28:00 -
[169]
Originally by: CCP Adida Hey guys this is starting to become a debate on religions. Please get back on topic.
How about half way thru and nearly ending ....
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Neuuton
Blackwater USA Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.12 17:29:00 -
[170]
I endorse this troll +1
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Stuart Price
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2010.07.12 17:36:00 -
[171]
Entirely fine with this.
1. Stupid people are stupid people, regardless of religion. 2. Scams target stupid people. 3. Scam isn't inciting religious hatred (under the legal definitions) OR discriminating based on religion. 4. Scam can't be prosecuted under fraud laws (to the guy who said it was an advert and a contract) since ownership of all in-game assets remains with CCP (so no ownership ever changes hands in a legal sense). 5. Scam is pretty funny and original.
+1 for this scam in fact. Stupid people are there to be abused, robbed and taken advantage of . Hell, if I had my way people would need to pass an exam to be allowed to breed.
Personal solution? Don't be stupid. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2010.07.12 17:38:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Chribba I say ban him! He caused a major discussion about religion in local, and me not being sober yet made it hard to follow the discussion as people talk so fast - so no! No religion scams!!
/c
No he didn't visit BoB BBQ .. His a slacker!
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Croesus
Caldari Titan Indurstrial
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Posted - 2010.07.12 17:39:00 -
[173]
haha look at all these people vomiting their values. you are all very convincing haha.
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BiggestT
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.07.12 17:40:00 -
[174]
Originally by: AterraX
No it's not you tool. The absence of religion is not a religion. It in the ****ing word: A(without)theism(religion/religious faith) Look it up.
How about we use a peer-reviewed source? Wikipedia is not accepted by universities etc.
òthe doctrine or belief that there is no God òa lack of belief in the existence of God or gods wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
So what if it's a belief in no God/gods or a lack of belief in whatever? It's the equivelent of a religion, people get hot-headed about things, people get angry, people meet up to discuss their shared belief/non-belief etc (I see fliers for atheist group meetings all the time). It's not like politics/sport etc. because it's about an existence of God/no-God.
To make everyone happy, let's change it to "your religious stance" does that make you happy? Are the pedantics done away with now??
Anyway, the point is, you guys are publically debating religion and imposing your beliefs/lack thereof whatever when it simply shouldn't be discussed on these forums.
Back to the question by the OP, it is clearly obvious that it's some dude who is in no way religous and is simply trying to think of a new scam (which, considering the 99% of Eve that seem to be atheists, doesn't seem to be a very effective strategy!); I don't see how it's any different/worse to other scams tbh.
EVE Trivia EVE History
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AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.12 17:58:00 -
[175]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: AterraX
No it's not you tool. The absence of religion is not a religion. It in the ****ing word: A(without)theism(religion/religious faith) Look it up.
How about we use a peer-reviewed source? Wikipedia is not accepted by universities etc.
òthe doctrine or belief that there is no God òa lack of belief in the existence of God or gods wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
So what if it's a belief in no God/gods or a lack of belief in whatever? It's the equivelent of a religion, people get hot-headed about things, people get angry, people meet up to discuss their shared belief/non-belief etc (I see fliers for atheist group meetings all the time). It's not like politics/sport etc. because it's about an existence of God/no-God.
To make everyone happy, let's change it to "your religious stance" does that make you happy? Are the pedantics done away with now??
No, not when you brainfart like that. Attheism is the LACK of religious superstition. It's like calling bald a haircolor. Or NOT being a member of a poltical parti...for political. There are no doctrines in atheism...it's just the lack of supersttious faith. Prove me wrong. Just because you post a lot of FUD...dosn't mean that you make sense.
Calling atheism a religion is like calling pacifism for violent. Or a circle for square. More religous dribble you want to post?!
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Fact of EVE forums: They will always come an anounomys alt-toon and question someones character... |
Ressiv
Cooperative Freelance Navigators Association
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Posted - 2010.07.12 18:17:00 -
[176]
Originally by: BiggestT
How about we use a peer-reviewed source? Wikipedia is not accepted by universities etc.
òthe doctrine or belief that there is no God òa lack of belief in the existence of God or gods wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
So what if it's a belief in no God/gods or a lack of belief in whatever? It's the equivelent of a religion, people get hot-headed about things, people get angry, people meet up to discuss their shared belief/non-belief etc (I see fliers for atheist group meetings all the time). It's not like politics/sport etc. because it's about an existence of God/no-God.
To make everyone happy, let's change it to "your religious stance" does that make you happy? Are the pedantics done away with now??
Do me the favour of comparing belief and faith, will ya ?
A belief is the result of thinking, or at least, should be. Faith is the result of not thinking and not accepting any other outcome/truth then what the faith sprung from.
Quote:
Anyway, the point is, you guys are publically debating religion and imposing your beliefs/lack thereof whatever when it simply shouldn't be discussed on these forums.
Cant realy argue against that, and I guess I'm risking devine intervention by continuing to do so.
I'll shut up now, as we are unlikely to ever be able to reach a point where we will agree, as you cant argue against faith. ========================== Nothing is true, everything is permitted. ========================== |
Verys
Burning Technologies
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Posted - 2010.07.12 18:26:00 -
[177]
Congratulations everyone you managed to turn this from a simple question about scamming with religion to a religion debate ****storm in just under 3 pages. Currently awaiting for Godwin's rule to come into play.
Please we all know the debates, discussions and random name calling but you are not going to convince anyone with all that pseudo-intellectual crap. Do you really think that people get converted on the internet to belief/not-belief all out of the sudden because they read your forum post? I say live and let die, I am not a religious person but I know a useless debate when I see one.
/ragepost
Now back onto topic, I don't think CCP should outlaw an extortion method based on religion because this would limit the amount of freedom/liberty once has in this game.
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Bond69
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Posted - 2010.07.12 18:27:00 -
[178]
Originally by: BiggestT
How about we use a peer-reviewed source? Wikipedia is not accepted by universities etc.
òthe doctrine or belief that there is no God òa lack of belief in the existence of God or gods wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=religion&sub=Search+WordNet&o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&h=00
Quote: * S: (n) religion, faith, religious belief (a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny) "he lost his faith but not his morality" * S: (n) religion, faith, organized religion (an institution to express belief in a divine power) "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"
Yep, still no atheism in there.
Quote: Hey guys this is starting to become a debate on religions. Please get back on topic.
Topic is about religion trying to plead special case and to be outside/above rules. Kinda like in RL but without ability to exert RL pressure on opposition.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.12 18:43:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 12/07/2010 18:43:28
Originally by: Zaboth Garadath I doubt any of you haven't seen scammers spamming local. Most often, the "Send me Isk I will send back 10x".
However, this is not a question of whether scamming should be allowed. I fully agree that it is part of the game.
However, there are some out there, who use religion to scam with.
Quote: [05:43:44] Good Deal > Im going on a relief trip to Haiti. As a Christian, I believe in giving back. As such, I will be giving away my 13 bil isk to all those who have faith. Send me any amount of isk and I will send you DOUBLE back. Limit 3 per person. PLEASE READ MY BIO!
His Bio:
Quote: Grace to you and peace My name is Ronhard Kelley and I am a proud member of the Prestonwood Baptist Church in Plano, Texas. My entire life has been dedicated to ministry and serving the call to action from the Lord! http://www.Prestonwood.org/plano/inside-prestonwood/foundation/ I am extremely passionate about bringing Jesus into the community of Eve! One of my favorite sayings outside of the Bible is by a fellow brother named Dr. Jack Graham who said ôThe way you change the heart of a community is to change the heart of its men.ö It is a firm belief of mine that by doing right by everyone I honor my God and strengthen the message I preach! (Hebrews 11:1) 1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, proof of things not seen. In the spirit of Jesus I believe in giving generously and having faith in the goodness of others. (James 1:6) 6 But let him ask in faith, without any doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven by the wind and tossed.
So should this be allowed? As far as I can tell, many Christians would be really ****** with someone using their religion to deceive people with.
What do you think?
It depends on the interpretation of each GM. I tried to form a religion in-game as a joke - something like the religion of lazy ****s, and i used an external site as a link. Suffice to say that the GM did not find it funny. :( So really petition it.
PS: I lolled at the last 2 lines in your post. Religion means power and money, putting yourself between what ppl believe in and themselves gives you a position of power over them. You may not like it, but most of the religions of the world are scams. And those that are not scams, are started by crackpots who are believed. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market ! |
Amarr citizen 4454545
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Posted - 2010.07.12 18:44:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Amarr citizen 4454545 on 12/07/2010 18:48:20
Originally by: AterraX
No it's not you tool. The absence of religion is not a religion.
The issue is that atheism and theism BOTH positively assert some type of reality. If you imagine ærealityÆ to be all possible universes û life prohibiting universes as well as the less probable life sustaining universes, the issue of theism or atheism is about the property at least one being.
A contingent property is defined as some property that MAY be found in at least ONE possible universe (out of the set of all possible universes).
A necessary property is defined as some property that MUST be found in ALL possible universes.
An impossible property is defined as some property that CANNOT be found in even a SINGLE possible universe.
Take Amarr citizen 4454545 for example, Amarr citizen 4454545 exists in at least one possible universe (EVE) so Jove X existence is contingent.
Atheists positively assert a collection of all possible universes where the existence of God is impossible AND therefore not contingent and not necessary. One doesnÆt need to disprove the existence of God to defend this position, but one does need to defend this position because such a reality has consequences. To assert such a reality is indeed as much a positive assertion as one the theist makes.
One consequence is that morality does not exist, and is not evident.
Theists, on the other hand, assert that in the set of all possible universes, at least one being (called God) exists, and whose existence is necessary. Again, this position does require defence, but does not require one to prove GodÆs existence to defend it. There are consequences to such a universe. One should also note that this discussion very clearly defines who/what God is because it is impossible to look at contingent/impossible/ or necessary properties in universal sets and BE ABITRARY. However for an atheist to positively assert some type of reality and to argue that he shares no burden of proof (because its impossible to prove a negative) misses not only the point but commits the worst of all possible fallacies.
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