Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ugliot
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 11:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having just tried a new alt, i wonder about the tutorial set up of the game. It seems EVE could gain a lot of richness in terms of experiences if the very beginning was as difficult as the rest of the game; but instead, we get handed free ships and skill books and LOTS of money. Of course you don't need to utilize those beginning agents, but with them sitting in front of you it feels a bit idiotic to just ignore all that.
Why doesn't the training consist solely of "civilian" ships and modules, which would be useless for anyone except beginners and would not need any additional skills to operate.... there is not even a hint of any struggle in starting a new character here at the moment. Does this really need to be the case in order to draw in more new people? Seems like EVE people play because they enjoy challenges...(and ganking)
Could there be an option to start "hardcore' characters? Starting with only a rookie ship and a civilian miner somewhere in low-sec? New beginning characters having political affiliations with one of the small groups like Intaki Syndicate or Khanid? For such a difficult start there would need to be a 'carrot' as well, not sure what that could be.
Just wondering. Any comments would be welcome. |
Togg Bott
One Clone Gang
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 12:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
the reason you find it easy is that you are a (hopefully) exprienced player making a alt.
compleatly new players do not have that critical knowledge that allows for fast and correct responses/actions. |
Akirei Scytale
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2154
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 12:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ugliot wrote:Having just tried a new alt, i wonder about the tutorial set up of the game. It seems EVE could gain a lot of richness in terms of experiences if the very beginning was as difficult as the rest of the game; but instead, we get handed free ships and skill books and LOTS of money. Of course you don't need to utilize those beginning agents, but with them sitting in front of you it feels a bit idiotic to just ignore all that.
Why doesn't the training consist solely of "civilian" ships and modules, which would be useless for anyone except beginners and would not need any additional skills to operate.... there is not even a hint of any struggle in starting a new character here at the moment. Does this really need to be the case in order to draw in more new people? Seems like EVE people play because they enjoy challenges...(and ganking)
Could there be an option to start "hardcore' characters? Starting with only a rookie ship and a civilian miner somewhere in low-sec? New beginning characters having political affiliations with one of the small groups like Intaki Syndicate or Khanid? For such a difficult start there would need to be a 'carrot' as well, not sure what that could be.
Just wondering. Any comments would be welcome.
Just fly to lowsec immediately if thats what you want.
Your path in EVE is 100% self defined. TEST Alliance BEST Alliance |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
950
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 12:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Togg Bott wrote:the reason you find it easy is that you are a (hopefully) exprienced player making a alt.
compleatly new players do not have that critical knowledge that allows for fast and correct responses/actions.
This. Here's your sign... |
Cpt Roghie
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
36
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 12:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dear god, did we run out of things to complain about? Zzzzzzzz.
|
stoicfaux
1269
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 12:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
People are never easy to deal with, even at the beginning.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
silent uk
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 13:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Because people like people to get past the trial and pay them money? |
Kyrin Ongrard
Darkness Fallsss
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 13:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cpt Roghie wrote:Dear god, did we run out of things to complain about?
So it seems, although I preferred "carebear/nullsec player sucks due to *insert tears here*, here is *silly/stupid/troll* fix that will *break the game/hurt/have no effect*" |
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 13:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
The tutorials are basic training on how to play some aspects of the game. So it does not need to be hard it needs to be informative.
If it's the first time someone is doing the tutorials as a new player then the tutorials work well.
If it's an alt or you've played the game before the tutorials will not be doing their job properly because you already know most if not all of what they have to teach.
I've had alts before where I've just skipped the tutorials because doing them is so easy once you've done then before, It's really just going through the motions.
|
Russell Casey
Did I Gank You
172
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 14:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
It would be better for new players if CCP's tutorials taught people how to use D-scan/set up the overview/using local/flagging mechanics/make safespots and instaundocks then just giving new players ships. |
|
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 14:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Reward Response reflex in our brains works on a curve as well. Early in the game, rewards for achievements come quickly, but as you progress, they began to take longer and longer. This model is used in pretty much any game that has a level/skill progression table. Hook them with good feelings early, then wean them slowly until they become bitter vets. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2280
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 14:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
At last, the first sign that the Tutorial system is getting to the place it needs to be. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Benny Ohu
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
221
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 14:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Considering some of the common things you hear from people who don't play the game are "EVE is ridiculously complex and difficult" and "you can never catch up to the vets so WHY EVEN PLAY" this is probably a good thing
Figuring the objective of the tutorial is to tutor new players not chuck them into a pit of velociraptors
Velociraptors are the smart ones so they'll make a dinosaur pyramid to climb out soon enough |
Ugleb
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
192
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 15:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
This has to be the first time I ever heard anyone suggest that EVE is too easy to get into. http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/ |
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 15:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Russell Casey wrote:It would be better for new players if CCP's tutorials taught people how to use D-scan/set up the overview/using local/flagging mechanics/make safespots and instaundocks then just giving new players ships.
Those are tactics, not game mechanics.Tutorials are for teaching game mechanics. |
|
CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
1388
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 15:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Don't worry - according to our metrics, the beginning of the game is already plenty difficult for new players |
|
Sabrina Solette
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 15:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ugliot wrote:Why doesn't the training consist solely of "civilian" ships and modules, which would be useless for anyone except beginners and would not need any additional skills to operate.... there is not even a hint of any struggle in starting a new character here at the moment. Does this really need to be the case in order to draw in more new people? Seems like EVE people play because they enjoy challenges...(and ganking)
Civilian ships won't be up to much with lvl 1's
You're just making a mountain out of a mole hill.
If you do the 5 tutorials and sold all the items that you loot and get from selling them quick, either as an item or reprocessed materials you will get just over 8 mill isk.
Now 8 mill in EvE is nothing, 1 +3 implant costs more than that.
New character that are not alts struggle to make isk in this game at the start, because they need implants, skill books as well as insurance (if used) ammo etc...
Now I bet when you start your alt you give it far more than 8 mill, so what are you actually moaning about?
|
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 15:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Don't worry - according to our metrics, the beginning of the game is already plenty difficult for new players
I took 2 new alts through the new user training so I could understand what brand new recruits should know.. Yep, it's tough - because the training has all sorts of bugs in it! Books given out of order, wrong instructions according to the type of ship flown, etc, etc, etc
CCP has the same problem the OP does - being too damn familiar with the game. CCP - have a bring your kid/relative/virgin EVE friend to work day! Have them sit down with you and start a new character - one at each racial type please. Then keep your damn mouth shut!!! Let them peck/hunt/struggle through so you can actually see the bugs and difficulties.
|
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
183
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 16:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
I hope this is a Troll.
CCP is having enough problems holding onto players and the game already has the hardest learning curve of any MMO. And you want to make it harder?
"CCP, is a cutting edge developer, they have found a way to sell lag to their customers, and make them believe it's a feature." |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
147
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 16:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
One of the first things I did in EVE was fly to Delve (not knowing it was called that) to do missions for a level 1 Blood Raider agent that I found with the map. I got all the way there in one piece, docked, accepted a mission, and killed some CONCORD NPCs with my Executioner. When I went to dock and accept another mission, I wasn't too bothered by the people waiting at the undock...
Ugliot wrote:New beginning characters having political affiliations with one of the small groups like Intaki Syndicate or Khanid? For such a difficult start there would need to be a 'carrot' as well, not sure what that could be.
Most any carrot would just be exploited by older players. For instance, start people out in Curse but give them Angel faction standing boosts? Hello farming alts. The carrot would have to be the 'hardcore' start itself, and just a lot of special documentation and pointers on how to scrape by. |
|
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
632
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 17:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Hey, at least they got rid of the perpetual motion unit. Gosh that had me struggling when i started..... Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Russell Casey
Did I Gank You
174
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 21:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:Russell Casey wrote:It would be better for new players if CCP's tutorials taught people how to use D-scan/set up the overview/using local/flagging mechanics/make safespots and instaundocks then just giving new players ships. Those are tactics, not game mechanics.Tutorials are for teaching game mechanics.
Uh-huh.
D-scan is a game mechanic. Bookmarks a game mechanic. Everybody's favorite insta-intel tool is a mechanic. Being able to warp 500km from an undock point is a mechanic.
Orbiting at optimal range is a tactic and the tutorials teach that. Left-clicking in space to go in a certain direction is a tactic and the tutorials teach that, too, albeit they don't make things like transversal and angle as clear as they should be. |
Tokaj Sunshine
Mise en Abyme
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 21:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Russell Casey wrote:Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:Russell Casey wrote:It would be better for new players if CCP's tutorials taught people how to use D-scan/set up the overview/using local/flagging mechanics/make safespots and instaundocks then just giving new players ships. Those are tactics, not game mechanics.Tutorials are for teaching game mechanics. Uh-huh. D-scan is a game mechanic. Bookmarks a game mechanic. Everybody's favorite insta-intel tool is a mechanic. Being able to warp 500km from an undock point is a mechanic. Orbiting at optimal range is a tactic and the tutorials teach that. Left-clicking in space to go in a certain direction is a tactic and the tutorials teach that, too, albeit they don't make things like transversal and angle as clear as they should be. Anyone can figure out how to make money and navigate in this game without tutorials/free ships, it's the pvp aspect that's hard to learn unless another player shows/tells you how to do it. Uh, no. You have it completely backwards.
Clicking on the Undock button? A game mechanic. You cannot do anything without knowing how to undock.
Setting up instaundocks and safespot bookmarks? A tactic. You can survive for quite a while without knowing about or needing such things. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
277
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 22:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
because real noobs are really noobish.. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
294
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 22:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'm actually thinking about rolling a trial alt just to go through the tutorial and see what it is like. Not done it in since I did it with my very first account. Hopefully I can provide some feedback so for actual real players, they are better prepared for things to come and less likely to give up on the game before the trial is up. |
George Whitebread
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
64
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 22:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Quote:Why is the beginning of the game so easy?
It's interesting you would make a thread with this heading considering EVE being known to having the steepest learning curve of all MMOs out there.
I don't know how much you play with your alt, but I am still in my starter corp and I keep hearing from newbies in the corp chat all the time that this game is overwhelming and hard. "I say what I like, and I like what I bloody well say" - George Whitebread |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
276
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 22:50:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ugliot wrote:Having just tried a new alt, i wonder about the tutorial set up of the game. It seems EVE could gain a lot of richness in terms of experiences if the very beginning was as difficult as the rest of the game; but instead, we get handed free ships and skill books and LOTS of money. Of course you don't need to utilize those beginning agents, but with them sitting in front of you it feels a bit idiotic to just ignore all that.
Why doesn't the training consist solely of "civilian" ships and modules, which would be useless for anyone except beginners and would not need any additional skills to operate.... there is not even a hint of any struggle in starting a new character here at the moment. Does this really need to be the case in order to draw in more new people? Seems like EVE people play because they enjoy challenges...(and ganking)
Could there be an option to start "hardcore' characters? Starting with only a rookie ship and a civilian miner somewhere in low-sec? New beginning characters having political affiliations with one of the small groups like Intaki Syndicate or Khanid? For such a difficult start there would need to be a 'carrot' as well, not sure what that could be.
Just wondering. Any comments would be welcome.
lol, starting over with a new alt when you know how to play the game is easy. You forgot what it's like to start playing the game with no experience
On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton where the dripping patchouli was more than scent, It was a sun-á |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1745
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 22:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:I'm actually thinking about rolling a trial alt just to go through the tutorial and see what it is like. Not done it in since I did it with my very first account. Hopefully I can provide some feedback so for actual real players, they are better prepared for things to come and less likely to give up on the game before the trial is up.
The problem is that you probably have years of experience and thus - thanks to Long-term potentiation - you do a lot of things merely utilizing your spinal chord whilst a noob struggles to find it in eve's clunky interface.
I did a few tutorial missions when I started my most recent account, and of course they were extremely easy, so I quit after a few since the rewards weren't worth it even for a poor player such as me.
It gives really new players a little kickstart - that's all.
I can understand the OP however - regardless of todays games constantly aiming at tickling peoples nucleus accumbens and force-feeding them victory, some people need a challenge to actually get satisfaction - I guess todays gamers are however spoiled brats in that regard.
Recently got fallout new vegas ultimate on steam - started on hardcore mode, quit because it was boringly easy - downloaded jsawyers mod started on very hard and suddenly, it's fun. Day Z has great gameplay too.
I can undestand CCP making the game easier and easier for noobs in order to retain new subscribers, but I just hope they keep it more 'hardcore' oriented instead of selling out to todays whiny-instant gratification players. You know... morons. |
Cpt Roghie
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
44
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 23:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Here's what they should do to welcome new players; Make them go through all the tutorial agents and then after they've done the last one they get promted to do a special one for concord for awesome standing boosts, they are given a ship which you can't build, sell, move or do anything with. When you undock with said ship it will be on auto pilot. Upon activating the ship it will scoop everything you own into the hangar then undock and start its way towards Jita. At a random system along the way concord will then spawn and nuke the **** out of your ship. At 1% Hull they will open a chat and write a pre-fixed text saying "HAHA U ARE DEAD, NO BIG SUPRISE." Then make your screen act like a Disco back in the 80s upon blowing up your ship and play the theme song "You raise me up" over and over again til you hit ALT + F4. But then it's too late and the song will then start playing out of your speakers, your notepad will open and it will type: WELCOME TO EVE. WHERE DYING AND BEING TROLLED TO **** IS THE MOST ENJOYABLE WAY OF PLAYING. NOW ANSWER THIS 1 MINUTE LONG SURVEY ON YOUR EXPERIENCE SO FAR. Was it 1) ****. or 2) SUPER GALACTIC AWESOME.
Or they could just do it the way it is now... Zzzzzzzz.
|
Karuk Erengar
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 23:59:00 -
[30] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote: Recently got fallout new vegas ultimate on steam - started on hardcore mode, quit because it was boringly easy - downloaded jsawyers mod started on very hard and suddenly, it's fun. Day Z has great gameplay too.
Liked just for that.
To OP, it's all knowledge like others have said. When I started my first trial account, I was lost and didn't know what to do. Once starting this account (a few trials and months later), I found it to be too vague information wise and found most information the tutorials give common sense. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |