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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 82 post(s) |
ElweSingollo
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:32:00 -
[91]
honest question here given that the schedule for realease of the minutes was as follows.
Quote: This is the exact schedule for how the Minutes got passed around:
2 July: CCP sent initial draft of the Minutes to CSM 4 July: CSM sent a substantially revised and expanded draft to CCP 9 July: CCP returned the draft with mostly minor edits 11 July: "Approved for publication" final draft sent to CCP 12 July: Published
Why in the five days you had for final revision were you unable to realise how unhappy these minutes would make people? Signature removed. This one ok CCP? CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature |
Mira O'karr
Minmatar Templars of Space
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:32:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Mira O''karr on 16/07/2010 19:32:40 please tell the eve gate team to fix this damn forum. that would be a productive use of their time. make it so i can stay logged in like in the eve gate.
also, while i m sure you think the new antenna is the greatest and best antenna you have every build, can our free bumper case be the assault frig overhaul, or at least the rocket fix (i hear that is already on some test server :hint:hint: oh wait.. that was just made up? :( )
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SheriffFruitfly
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:33:00 -
[93]
70 devs working on walking around a station.
Well, nice to get clarity on just how important fixing fleet lag is to you, I suppose. __________________________________________________________ Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:36:00 -
[94]
Originally by: the op Can we get a copy of CCP Warlock's presentation at PARA 2010?
"Examining the effects of communication constraints on large scale distributed applications such as the EVE MMO"
Good question, I'll ask her.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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RifterDrifter
They Found Oil On Your Anus
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:38:00 -
[95]
Edited by: RifterDrifter on 16/07/2010 19:39:12
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly 70 devs working on walking around a station.
Well, nice to get clarity on just how important fixing fleet lag is to you, I suppose.
The priorities are kinda obvious. 70 People working on Incarna. 22 People working for the Empire-Bears 17 People working on stuff nobody cares about (DUST & GATE) 15 People working on everything else like FIXING THE ****ING LAG
So yeah, 0.0-Dwellers are apparently even less important than DUST&GATE. _______________________________________________
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Athena Machina
Caldari SPORADIC MOVEMENT
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:38:00 -
[96]
Originally by: CCP Zulu Currently they are focusing on "fleet fight in a can," which is a borderline sentient AI-testing automation feature...
Uh-oh...Skynet :(
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Rikki Sals
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:39:00 -
[97]
Thanks very much for the devblog! I have a lot of anticipation for Dust 514; I think between Incarna and Dust 514, the appeal of the EVE ecosystem to the yet unwashed masses will greatly increase. There are truckloads of potential gamers out there to bring into the fold.
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kano donn
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:40:00 -
[98]
Originally by: JacobsGladedage
Originally by: LordSwift Awesome cant wait for incarna. Keep up the good work ccp. ignore all the whining idiots on the forums.
I think it's a cool feature actually. But it is in essence a 3d chat room and I can't see why I would ever use it beyond the initial "Oh lulz this is nifty" new feature moment, so I think it's only natural I'd much rather having them work on something else.
Why does everyone keep thinking this. Look at the blog again.
Many many times in eve past,CCP has been able to pull off something incredible and so much more then what was thought was possible.
I think they are producing something that has a ton of playability and will really drastically improve the eve universe.
They are the ones that have made EVE what it is. They are responsible for everyone ground breaking idea that you so love now. Have faith that they will not produce something you will not want to play.
It will be good. :)
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Hoelli
Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:40:00 -
[99]
I wish people would finally role their reality checks succesfully...
CCP is a company, they don¦t live of welfare (and thats ok). They sell a product (EVE). Nobody forced you to buy this product.
It is fair game to give feedback and to question CCP, but some people seem to think they can grasp the challenges and the decisions CCP has to make and start *****ing when it does not go their way.
I for one appreciate the effort CCP puts into this game and their commitment to feedback. Thanks CCP.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:41:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Myself and one other person have been working on http://www.eve-metrics.com/ for a while now. We just released a major, major update. We spent maybe 80 hours on it each, so call it 3 weeks of full-time work from a developer. We produced that. The 10 man team working full-time on EVE Gate produced something that does a fraction of the work in over a year. The 'API team' has produced _jack all_. I'm getting to the point of having a total sense of humor failure and giving up on projects like EVE Metrics, which I put significant effort and financial resources into, for free, for CCP and the playerbase. What do I get back? This.
You don't seriously expect any of the producer level have shown that, or even an insight into how much resources it took to the execs do you? That would have rocked a few boats...
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:41:00 -
[101]
Quote: We have seen a number of players talking about us moving from new feature development into iteration in the year 2012, but until then weæll be pumping new features into the system. This is not an accurate description of how a 200-person development team works. In the 2011 winter expansion weæll certainly focus more than ever before on iterating and polishing up all the features that EVE has expanded to in the then eight years. What those specific systems are, I donæt know as we havenæt started the planning phase for that yet.
That does not mean that we wonæt make any improvements until then!
The trouble is, it doesn't mean you will, either, even though you're trying very hard to make it sound as though you intend to. It would do a lot for credibility if you picked one or two of the low-hanging fruit and committed to them. You've met with the CSM, you've got enough info to prioritize one or two off the top.
------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Ix Forres
Caldari Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:42:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Ix Forres on 16/07/2010 19:43:07
Originally by: kano donn
Originally by: JacobsGladedage
Originally by: LordSwift Awesome cant wait for incarna. Keep up the good work ccp. ignore all the whining idiots on the forums.
I think it's a cool feature actually. But it is in essence a 3d chat room and I can't see why I would ever use it beyond the initial "Oh lulz this is nifty" new feature moment, so I think it's only natural I'd much rather having them work on something else.
Why does everyone keep thinking this. Look at the blog again.
Many many times in eve past,CCP has been able to pull off something incredible and so much more then what was thought was possible.
I think they are producing something that has a ton of playability and will really drastically improve the eve universe.
They are the ones that have made EVE what it is. They are responsible for everyone ground breaking idea that you so love now. Have faith that they will not produce something you will not want to play.
It will be good. :)
I really do believe Incarna will be fantastic and I look forward to it. I've been wanting to open a club in Jita for a long time now.
However, developing new features must be balanced with maintaining old code. If I can have Incarna as a paying subscriber, but only at the expense - and not inconsequential expense at that - of core gameplay, then that is not acceptable to me.
Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: Ix Forres
Myself and one other person have been working on http://www.eve-metrics.com/ for a while now. We just released a major, major update. We spent maybe 80 hours on it each, so call it 3 weeks of full-time work from a developer. We produced that. The 10 man team working full-time on EVE Gate produced something that does a fraction of the work in over a year. The 'API team' has produced _jack all_. I'm getting to the point of having a total sense of humor failure and giving up on projects like EVE Metrics, which I put significant effort and financial resources into, for free, for CCP and the playerbase. What do I get back? This.
You don't seriously expect any of the producer level have shown that, or even an insight into how much resources it took to the execs do you? That would have rocked a few boats...
Capsize the boats! -- Ix Forres - 3rd Party Application Developer -EVE Metrics
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Mynxee
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:45:00 -
[103]
Originally by: CCP Zulu To be completely up-front about it, I have to say Iæm quite taken aback by the difference in the meeting minutes compared to my firsthand experience from attending the meetings.
For my part, I felt the discussions were very constructive and I had great dialogue with the council members.
Although we were disappointed about many things related to the Summit and the CSM/CCP workflow processes in general, the sessions with devs were indeed for the most part positive and constructive. They just weren't necessarily PRODUCTIVE related to the player issues that CSM has been continuously championing since CSM1. There is a fundamental difference between constructive and productive.
Also, if you were surprised at the tone/content of the minutes, why didn't you provide some feedback to be incorporated so that CCP's perspective was better represented? After all, there was an opportunity for that. As I posted in another thread several days ago, the CSM/CCP collaboration on the Minutes went like this:
2 July: CCP sent initial draft of the Minutes to CSM 4 July: CSM sent a substantially revised and expanded draft to CCP 9 July: CCP returned the draft with mostly minor edits 11 July: "Approved for publication" final draft sent to CCP 12 July: Published
CCP had the CSM's initial (and substantive) draft in hand for five days. Yet apparently it was neither shopped around internally for review/feedback nor did CCP folks who sat in the Summit sessions think to proactively ask the CCP department responsible for publishing those Minutes for a chance to review them before publication. This, despite numerous forum and blog posts immediately after the Summit which reflected CSM's disappointments in no uncertain terms. I would have thought that might have clued some folks in that it would behoove CCP to be aware of what was going out in the Minutes.
As for communications between CCP and CSM, Zulu, I can tell you that at the Summit they were great. Otherwise, they suck. CSM is essentially operating in a vacuum. It takes days to get answers to emails--even simple ones dealing with administrative questions such as a request for clarification about CSM alts' access to NDA information or availability of our advocates to attend an in-game meeting to discuss a couple of topics that are more easily addressed in dialog than the stilted, delayed mechanism of email.
Fix the communication gap we have (for which the ball is totally in your court, as we have no power to change our own access to you guys) and I promise you, the CSM will be able to communicate better with both CCP AND players. Expectations can then be managed far more effectively than is happening now.
I am glad to see dev blogs being published, even if I don't always like or agree with what I read. At least then we know you have a pulse.
Life In Low Sec |
Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:46:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Ephemeral Waves on 16/07/2010 19:48:56
Originally by: kano donn
Originally by: JacobsGladedage
Originally by: LordSwift Awesome cant wait for incarna. Keep up the good work ccp. ignore all the whining idiots on the forums.
I think it's a cool feature actually. But it is in essence a 3d chat room and I can't see why I would ever use it beyond the initial "Oh lulz this is nifty" new feature moment, so I think it's only natural I'd much rather having them work on something else.
Why does everyone keep thinking this. Look at the blog again.
Many many times in eve past,CCP has been able to pull off something incredible and so much more then what was thought was possible.
I think they are producing something that has a ton of playability and will really drastically improve the eve universe.
They are the ones that have made EVE what it is. They are responsible for everyone ground breaking idea that you so love now. Have faith that they will not produce something you will not want to play.
It will be good. :)
Name one possible - useful - thing that incarna will add to blowing up spaceships in space.
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the op
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:47:00 -
[105]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: the op Can we get a copy of CCP Warlock's presentation at PARA 2010?
"Examining the effects of communication constraints on large scale distributed applications such as the EVE MMO"
Good question, I'll ask her.
Thanks. Send her... this way... Out of Pod request for Warlock brains ;)
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OwlManAtt
Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:47:00 -
[106]
Originally by: ElweSingollo honest question here given that the schedule for realease of the minutes was as follows.
Quote: This is the exact schedule for how the Minutes got passed around:
2 July: CCP sent initial draft of the Minutes to CSM 4 July: CSM sent a substantially revised and expanded draft to CCP 9 July: CCP returned the draft with mostly minor edits 11 July: "Approved for publication" final draft sent to CCP 12 July: Published
Why in the five days you had for final revision were you unable to realise how unhappy these minutes would make people?
Never mind the five days they had to read them. From my understanding, a CCP employee was responsible for taking the minutes. I question the statements regarding the CSM meeting; it seems impossible for them to _not_ walk away from some of the sessions and not understand our frustrations. --- Owl |
farfrael
FP Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:48:00 -
[107]
Originally by: CCP Zulu
After reading the many discussions following the publishing of the Council of Stellar Management (CSM) 5 meeting minutes, I wanted to write this dev blog to clarify some things that have been floating around, rumors and half-facts that seem to have taken on a life of their own.
Hello, I am CCP Zulu and I am a condescending *******.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Maybe Iæm completely delusional and it didnæt go that way at all, but thereæs definitely something broken in the feedback loop we have with the CSM and I will be working closely with them to enhance our collaboration. When two parties have such vastly different perceptions of the same event, something is wrong and needs to be fixed. We have some suggestions in mind and we will be exploring them in the fall. Iæm confident that with the CSMæs help we can take this to the next level.
shooting the messenger isn't going to work my suggestion is for CCP to make an effort and actually, genuinely listen to the feedback from the player base
also, **** Incarna. Who cares about walking in stations when the core game is completely messed-up?
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:51:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Ix Forres In the interests of transparency, which you seem to be trying to move towards here, could you detail which teams have contributed to the EVE API in, say, the last year?
In the last the major additions or overhauls to the EVE API have been the sovereignty changes, mail addition, notification addition, calendar addition and research point addition. In addition there have been tens of defects fixes as well as performance improvements.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:52:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: CCP Zulu To be completely up-front about it, I have to say Iæm quite taken aback by the difference in the meeting minutes compared to my firsthand experience from attending the meetings.
For my part, I felt the discussions were very constructive and I had great dialogue with the council members.
Although we were disappointed about many things related to the Summit and the CSM/CCP workflow processes in general, the sessions with devs were indeed for the most part positive and constructive. They just weren't necessarily PRODUCTIVE related to the player issues that CSM has been continuously championing since CSM1. There is a fundamental difference between constructive and productive.
Also, if you were surprised at the tone/content of the minutes, why didn't you provide some feedback to be incorporated so that CCP's perspective was better represented? After all, there was an opportunity for that. As I posted in another thread several days ago, the CSM/CCP collaboration on the Minutes went like this:
2 July: CCP sent initial draft of the Minutes to CSM 4 July: CSM sent a substantially revised and expanded draft to CCP 9 July: CCP returned the draft with mostly minor edits 11 July: "Approved for publication" final draft sent to CCP 12 July: Published
CCP had the CSM's initial (and substantive) draft in hand for five days. Yet apparently it was neither shopped around internally for review/feedback nor did CCP folks who sat in the Summit sessions think to proactively ask the CCP department responsible for publishing those Minutes for a chance to review them before publication. This, despite numerous forum and blog posts immediately after the Summit which reflected CSM's disappointments in no uncertain terms. I would have thought that might have clued some folks in that it would behoove CCP to be aware of what was going out in the Minutes.
As for communications between CCP and CSM, Zulu, I can tell you that at the Summit they were great. Otherwise, they suck. CSM is essentially operating in a vacuum. It takes days to get answers to emails--even simple ones dealing with administrative questions such as a request for clarification about CSM alts' access to NDA information or availability of our advocates to attend an in-game meeting to discuss a couple of topics that are more easily addressed in dialog than the stilted, delayed mechanism of email.
Fix the communication gap we have (for which the ball is totally in your court, as we have no power to change our own access to you guys) and I promise you, the CSM will be able to communicate better with both CCP AND players. Expectations can then be managed far more effectively than is happening now.
I am glad to see dev blogs being published, even if I don't always like or agree with what I read. At least then we know you have a pulse.
If I understand that correctly, then basically either Zulupark is suffering from EXTREME issues with communication, or he just tried to distort the situation by delivering a message which tried to spin blame on the CSM for the situation as it is.
Facepalm moment.
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lylaal
Onbekend.
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:53:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Darth Sith
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Mashie Saldana Where did the remaining 200+ developers go as I'm pretty sure it was over 300 working on Apocrypha?
They returned to their projects after Apocrypha.
Apocrypha = 300 devs and arguably one of the best expansions released
Then you send some of them back to "their projects" and we got Dominion, arguably one of the worst expansions. This was followed by Tyrannis, the 'Meh' expansion that has striken the player base with carpal-tunnel from the farmville click fest and 1 whole ship update!
I have been playing EVE for over 5 years, gone through the ups and downs, the quiet summer times, the GM screwups, but I have to say this is the worst shape I have seen the morale of the veterans in years.
And now we have the guy that foobar'd the supercapitals promoted? That volcano did more damage then I realized...
[WTB] - those 100 devs back for winter expansion.
old fart ( 7y in sep ) that's basically retired calling in
lets hope that things improve somehow
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Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente The Crane Family
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:54:00 -
[111]
I noticed that the dev-blog twice mentioned CCP Warlock's MIT PhD as (well, I can only describe it as) somehow a guarantee that all will be well.
Now, I do research in Distributed Simulation and Virtual Worlds. You will have to excuse my scientific interest (this is my adopted field after all), but it drove me to find out a little bit more about this member of my field that worked for CCP. The minutes were quite helpful there BTW.
Now I have never done any research in Distributed Robotic Vision, but it was rather surprising that neither I nor any of my colleagues seem to recollect having ever heard about any research done by CCP Warlock in our field. Well, for me that may not be very surprising, as I came into the field from an Artificial Intelligence angle, so I may have hung out with a different crowd. But that my colleagues, who have worked in this field proper for almost two decades now (and are thus supposed know a lot more people than I do) have apparently never heard about CCP Warlock's (not by that moniker ofcourse) research before either, surprised me a little.
Now I haven't been able to ask everyone yet, so something may still come up at one point, but I honestly have to ask: Is there something else CCP Warlock has been doing since her thesis on Distributed Robotic Vision that I am may not be aware of that gives CCP management the confidence to use her as a guarantee of progress in the way CCP did in this dev-blog? And if it is that work that makes her thus qualified, what exactly was the purpose of brandishing her title in the way that you did?
Because, not to put too fine a point on it, I would feel rather embarrassed, if not pressured, if someone did the same with my title! --
English only please. Zymurgist |
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:54:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Mira O'karr please tell the eve gate team to fix this damn forum. that would be a productive use of their time.
Indeed it will be.
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:55:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana Oh my god, CCP Zulupark is senior producer now.
Don't mention the carriers.
If I recall correctly he wanted to stop carriers deploying fighters outside their grid. Which if you look at how the game has been played for the last year .. is basically what has happened without him changing them. At the time I wasn't convinced with his vision for how caps should be used, but he certainly had one. Was their more?
My carriers are used for two things these days ... triage rep'ing POS and keeping supercaps alive.
Myn
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farfrael
FP Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.07.16 19:58:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Mynxee
Originally by: CCP Zulu To be completely up-front about it, I have to say Iæm quite taken aback by the difference in the meeting minutes compared to my firsthand experience from attending the meetings.
For my part, I felt the discussions were very constructive and I had great dialogue with the council members.
Although we were disappointed about many things related to the Summit and the CSM/CCP workflow processes in general, the sessions with devs were indeed for the most part positive and constructive. They just weren't necessarily PRODUCTIVE related to the player issues that CSM has been continuously championing since CSM1. There is a fundamental difference between constructive and productive.
Also, if you were surprised at the tone/content of the minutes, why didn't you provide some feedback to be incorporated so that CCP's perspective was better represented? After all, there was an opportunity for that. As I posted in another thread several days ago, the CSM/CCP collaboration on the Minutes went like this:
2 July: CCP sent initial draft of the Minutes to CSM 4 July: CSM sent a substantially revised and expanded draft to CCP 9 July: CCP returned the draft with mostly minor edits 11 July: "Approved for publication" final draft sent to CCP 12 July: Published
CCP had the CSM's initial (and substantive) draft in hand for five days. Yet apparently it was neither shopped around internally for review/feedback nor did CCP folks who sat in the Summit sessions think to proactively ask the CCP department responsible for publishing those Minutes for a chance to review them before publication. This, despite numerous forum and blog posts immediately after the Summit which reflected CSM's disappointments in no uncertain terms. I would have thought that might have clued some folks in that it would behoove CCP to be aware of what was going out in the Minutes.
As for communications between CCP and CSM, Zulu, I can tell you that at the Summit they were great. Otherwise, they suck. CSM is essentially operating in a vacuum. It takes days to get answers to emails--even simple ones dealing with administrative questions such as a request for clarification about CSM alts' access to NDA information or availability of our advocates to attend an in-game meeting to discuss a couple of topics that are more easily addressed in dialog than the stilted, delayed mechanism of email.
Fix the communication gap we have (for which the ball is totally in your court, as we have no power to change our own access to you guys) and I promise you, the CSM will be able to communicate better with both CCP AND players. Expectations can then be managed far more effectively than is happening now.
I am glad to see dev blogs being published, even if I don't always like or agree with what I read. At least then we know you have a pulse.
Without any irony, congratulations on being so professional and focused. Amazed you still have the energy and drive to be so constructive when compared to CCP's arrogance and manipulative attitude
Hey CCP, bet the CSM's not as docile as you expected them to be?
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Indy Dugg
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Posted - 2010.07.16 20:00:00 -
[115]
Excellent CCP i look forwaed to reactivateing my account and buying a better PC.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2010.07.16 20:01:00 -
[116]
The meetings between CCP and the CSM in Iceland have all been very constructive. Developers were very responsive and interested in meaningful dialog, as were the members of the CSM. Both groups shared interest in the game and its development. All meetings were very cordial.
In some instances, there were disagreements, different point of views, where each group explained the reasons they thought what they did thing.
The minutes clearly put forward the differences in opinion and the steps taken to remove the causes of concern, or the explanations when the stance of one group or the other wouldn't budge. As such it seems to portray a very confrontational series of meetings with developers. That image is very inaccurate.
As far as what Zulu described as "iterating on PVE in EVE, bringing together players for immersive and engaging group content.", most of the CSM are not questioning that that current idea has merit. A few concerns were identified and expressed, good points to emphasize have been identified as well. So let me just stress this: it has the potential for being loads of fun, and I personally look very much forward to taking part in it.
The fact that we'd have had the focus placed on something different does not change the qualities of that feature.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2010.07.16 20:01:00 -
[117]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Mira O'karr please tell the eve gate team to fix this damn forum. that would be a productive use of their time.
Indeed it will be.
Show the team www.eve-metrics.com, reference Ix's overview of development time, collaboration elements, could be quite insightful. Also, it might be an idea to pick up on some current research projects in the industry on social networking, the facebook dilemma in corporate development, and so forth.
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Altaree
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.07.16 20:02:00 -
[118]
This is an amazingly wonderful post! Thank you VERY much. This type of information coming out on a regular basis would do wonders for CCP - Player relations!
I do agree with Mynxee about your last comment:
Quote: To be completely up-front about it, I have to say Iæm quite taken aback by the difference in the meeting minutes compared to my firsthand experience from attending the meetings.
For my part, I felt the discussions were very constructive and I had great dialogue with the council members.
Can you please republish the minutes with the changes that you should have made before July 9th or should have been part of the original draft on July 2nd? There is really no excuse for this comment. --Altaree
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Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2010.07.16 20:04:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Marlenus on 16/07/2010 20:06:05
Originally by: farfrael congratulations on being so professional and focused.
Yes Mynxee, I am gonna concur with this. You've been awesome. Me, I'd have been throwing spoons or something. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
ghosttr
Amarr Muppet Factory WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2010.07.16 20:05:00 -
[120]
Thanks for the blog, but you guys just don't seem to understand why people are so angry about this stuff.
We understand that you are working on the next patch, and that some of the larger fixes wont come quickly. It's the small fixes that we don't understand why you haven't tackled. And when asked about them we get the runaround.
For us to have any faith that the CSM works at all, you need to tackle at least some minor problems to show that something is being done.
Prospecting! |
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