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Jill Xelitras
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.07.24 22:48:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Gwen Reinholds long post ahead.
The market is a tough field for most people, vets included. You stated correctly that you need less skills to compete on an equal footing with older players and that having funds will help making more isk. You also correctly described how easy access to a profession devaluates the fruit of your efforts. That is a basic economic principle: the price of an item will be where supply and demand intersect. Oversupply lowers the price to a point where producing said item becomes unprofitable. At that point people tend to stop producing said item, unless they believe that "mined minerals are free" or they have access to cheaper minerals from a source bypassing the regional market.
In my opinion, trading requires quite a lot of "out of game" skills and a good understanding of in-game mechanics. It is one of the careers where the learning cliff is very steep.
The thing with eve is that you don't start as a hero with a set destiny. You can't skill or grind your way to the top ranks. This is true especially as there are no true ranks. For player A the size of the wallet may be the factor determining rank, for player B it may be kills listed on a killboard, for player C it may be the number of clients he runs, for player D it may be programming a tool used by many fellow pilots ...
In eve you start as a blank sheet, a nobody. That is what is so hard to accept for many. You're not Duke Nukem, Max Payne, Gordon Freeman ... you are just yourself. If you decide that you want to measure yourself to a 2003 character and expect to accomplish the same things, you'll be disappointed really fast. That's like wanting to compete with Einstein, when you've just learned to count to ten. Eve forces you to take one step at a time. The game forces you to plan ahead and be patient.
The one thing where both CCP and players agree is that the learning skills are quite a hindrance and a source of frustration for new players. But all the other skills are there to keep players from doing everything without forcing a class system on players. Learning skills will just give you the ability to do something. The skills will not guarantee any kind of success. You will not become a better trader for having learned trading skills. You will not be a better pvp pilot for having trained more combat related skills. You will not even enjoy eve more for having more SP. That's more or less the message that older players try to pass on: have fun at every stage. Complain where complaints are warranted, but don't try to change the fundamentals of the game.
Bleh, this post got longer then I intended.
Jill.
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Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.07.25 00:41:00 -
[32]
I would also like to add to the OP that to get specialized in a certain ship does NOT take long at all. If you're goal is to fly a dread well yes, it is going to take over a year. Make realistic goals for yourself, say Interceptors. These ships are welcomed in any gang no matter what they are flying, most corps will welcome you with open arms if you are a skilled interceptor pilot. It does not take very much training time and it's dmn FUN to fly them. I can fly Battleships, BC, basicly most things sub capital for Gallente and Amarr but one of my favorite ships to fly is still the interceptor. It is key to any decent gang, you will be thanked and apreciated for the kills you provide them. It involves a good deal more personal skill and insight than just following the FC's warp to and primary calls, you will need to scout out systems alone, pin down targets, use your scanner, follow enemy gangs and stay alive etc. Once you are in a fight you will still be the first to be tackling enemy ships, providing kills for you gang and getting on every single KM while flying in a small ship among the massive bs's/carriers etc which gives you that epic scale which you just don't get when flying a BS. Bigger isn't better, one of the most needed and sought after ship classes in a t2 frigate you can train into is 2-3 months with acceptable skills (haven't seen eve-mon on this but would estimate that with basic navigation and fitting skills with Frigate 5 and Interceptor 4 would come to about that)
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Hainnz
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.07.25 16:54:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Mawmi Allawe
Originally by: Gwen Reinholds
I suppose the only viable alternative for a noob is to take a dedicated learning path to some specialized PvP role and get into a 0.0 alliance ASAP. I don't know because I've never attempted this myself. Nothing else you can do as a newbie is economically worthwhile.
This is straying off-topic. Is it easier to make more ISK as a veteran than a new player? Ohhhh you betcha. By several hundred percent. Making ISK isn't the game goal, though, and if you're playing it that way that's your personal choice. We were talking about PVP, and that's a whole different issue.
Is it easier to make isk as an older player than a new one? yes, it is, and long may it stay that way. The veterans had to work through a period of being new ones too, that's their reward for sticking with it.
I would say it's not of-topic at all, unless you completely disregard the golden rule of EVE: don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
If a nine-month old newb is more-or-less equal to a five year vet (which he won't be, but for the sake of argument let's say he is), but it takes him two weeks of isk grinding to replace his loses while it takes the vet a couple of hours, then the vet "wins", even if the newb manages to somehow out-play the vet 2:1.
Bottom line: saying a newb can be just as good as a vet in a few months of focused training is as misleading as saying a character must train up and station spin for three years before he can really start playing the game.
A new character can be useful very quickly, but he'll also have to resign himself to flying T1 frigs/cruisers for a long time while he waits to not only train up to fly/fit better ships, but also quickly and easily replace those better ships. |
Khavi Kitamatsu
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Posted - 2010.07.25 18:37:00 -
[34]
The reality that EVE is new player friendly is an illusion to get more people to try and play it. Nothing more and nothing less. Anyone that thinks that EVE is new player friendly is delusional.
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2010.07.25 21:40:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hainnz I would say it's not of-topic at all, unless you completely disregard the golden rule of EVE: don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Of course, if you trade plex then even this rule becomes moot. -----
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Mawmi Allawe
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Posted - 2010.07.26 00:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Hainnz
A new character can be useful very quickly, but he'll also have to resign himself to flying T1 frigs/cruisers for a long time while he waits to not only train up to fly/fit better ships, but also quickly and easily replace those better ships.
And you think the majority of the vets are flying what for PVP, exactly? A few people routinely fly t2/faction ships for PVP, but if you encounter those people the ship they are flying will be the least of your worries. They are confident enough to not lose those more expensive ships because they have lost lots and lots of the cheap ones, and realised their mistakes, and learnt from their experience.
Which brings me back to my main text: If the vets had to struggle through and learn how to be good, what the hell is the incentive for them to stop around if a new player can swan in and be exactly the same? There has to be some incentive to stick around. Are you seriously suggesting we should level the playing field for everyone?
We have invested countless hours and/or serious amounts of money in this game. I've been around since 2005. I have logged over... Well actually I can't work out the logserver now, but... way too many hours in the game. Are you suggesting that that should count for naught?
Is a new player the same as an old one? Of course they f**king aren't. No more than a new chevrolet driver is the same as an old formula one driver, or a new chess player is the same as a grand master. Can they be beaten? Yes, they can. Especially two, or more, against one.
Eve has people who have been here six years. It also has people who've been here six minutes. Don't go looking for battles with the six year-olds if you're a six minute old. New people are coming in all the time and there's far more of them than there are of us.
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Gwen Reinholds
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:15:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu The reality that EVE is new player friendly is an illusion to get more people to try and play it. Nothing more and nothing less. Anyone that thinks that EVE is new player friendly is delusional.
Glad to see there are people willing to be honest about it instead of toeing the party line.
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Gwen Reinholds
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Posted - 2010.07.26 01:27:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Mawmi Allawe
Which brings me back to my main text: If the vets had to struggle through and learn how to be good, what the hell is the incentive for them to stop around if a new player can swan in and be exactly the same? There has to be some incentive to stick around. Are you seriously suggesting we should level the playing field for everyone?
Starcraft has each player start every game with the same amount of workers and minerals. You don't get more of it the more games you play or the longer you've had your account at b.net. It doesn't stop people from sticking around and spending years upon years trying constantly to improve at the game.
The problem is that there isn't nearly as much to get good at in EVE as there is in Starcraft. So if we had a way to level the playing field, the people would quickly figure it out and lose interest as you say. Perhaps not. There's no way to tell.
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Mawmi Allawe
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Posted - 2010.07.26 02:38:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Mawmi Allawe on 26/07/2010 02:39:26
Originally by: Gwen Reinholds
Originally by: Mawmi Allawe
Which brings me back to my main text: If the vets had to struggle through and learn how to be good, what the hell is the incentive for them to stop around if a new player can swan in and be exactly the same? There has to be some incentive to stick around. Are you seriously suggesting we should level the playing field for everyone?
Starcraft has each player start every game with the same amount of workers and minerals. You don't get more of it the more games you play or the longer you've had your account at b.net. It doesn't stop people from sticking around and spending years upon years trying constantly to improve at the game.
The problem is that there isn't nearly as much to get good at in EVE as there is in Starcraft. So if we had a way to level the playing field, the people would quickly figure it out and lose interest as you say. Perhaps not. There's no way to tell.
Unless I'm missing something, Starcraft is not an MMO. You start at scratch each time, and you don't pay a subscription for the privilege.
...And wait, there isn't as much to get good at in Eve as Starcraft? What are you smokin'?
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OT Smithers
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Posted - 2010.07.26 03:36:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Mawmi Allawe A few people routinely fly t2/faction ships for PVP
A few? Pop on into low-sec.
Quote: If the vets had to struggle through and learn how to be good, what the hell is the incentive for them to stop around if a new player can swan in and be exactly the same? Are you seriously suggesting we should level the playing field for everyone?
Level? Not instantly. The question is: HOW LONG SHOULD A NEW PLAYER DEVOTE? How many months? And let's be honest here, a new player today faces a challenge you never dreamed of. The "hardcore old-school" were looking at the daunting task of leveling up to fight T1 cruisers with T1 fittings. Today a noob can't pop into low-sec without getting jumped by a pack of HAC's.
Quote: We have invested countless hours and/or serious amounts of money in this game. I've been around since 2005. I have logged over... Well actually I can't work out the logserver now, but... way too many hours in the game. Are you suggesting that that should count for naught?
Why should it? Do you believe that your length of subscribtion should entitle you to an automatic win? And why wouldn't you WELCOME a growing population of players rather than gold farmers.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 10:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: OT Smithers Do you believe that your length of subscribtion should entitle you to an automatic win?
Do you believe that it currently does?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.26 12:11:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 26/07/2010 12:14:35
Originally by: Mawmi Allawe And you think the majority of the vets are flying what for PVP, exactly? A few people routinely fly t2/faction ships for PVP, but if you encounter those people the ship they are flying will be the least of your worries. They are confident enough to not lose those more expensive ships because they have lost lots and lots of the cheap ones, and realised their mistakes, and learnt from their experience.
Which brings me back to my main text: If the vets had to struggle through and learn how to be good, what the hell is the incentive for them to stop around if a new player can swan in and be exactly the same? There has to be some incentive to stick around. Are you seriously suggesting we should level the playing field for everyone?
Well one thing: there's a difference between practicing, making mistakes, learning to set up your ship on the one hand and just not being able to do damage, having crappy defenses, being slow on the other.
The first one can be quickly learnt by practice ("player skill"), the other just requires a massive time sink ("skill points").
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2010.07.26 13:07:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 26/07/2010 13:12:33
Originally by: OT Smithers Counter point: In EVE PVP, equipment determines the winner. Period. Equipment is dictated by subscription length. Because CCP keeps raising the equipment "level cap," a new player will never catch up. Nor will play skill help -- CCP has coded any of that out of the game.
Everyone has heard the phrase "Don't take a knife to a gun fight." For the new player in Eve replace the word gun with ballistic missile and the word knife with Rubber Chicken.
Went on a frigate roam last night.
4 day old player helped us kill 2 BS, 2 Vagabonds and a Caracel while 3 'verterans' who should know better missed out on the killmails because they messed up, went too close and got smartbombed.
All of the newer characters on that roam were helpful because they brought that extra bit of ewar ( multiple webs and TDs on the poor little vagas ruined their day ).
Sadly it's people like you that put off the newer players, probably because you can't bear to see them succeed through skills that you can't develop.
As to pimping, sometimes it's worth the pay off, eg. faction point on a curse because you want your point range to match your neut range. The T3s R&K fly are generally pretty nice fits as they don't die very often due to that fact ( faction hardeners overheat for longer, faction HS mean you can get away with 2 damage mods and fit more tank... etc etc. ) Also by the time they do die they'll have killed many many times there worth on an alliance efficiency level.
OTOH when I'm out in a BC / Frig gang I'll be in a strictly T2 fit.
After 6 months you can rapidly run through L4s / Rat / explore well enough to fly T2 fine.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.07.26 16:46:00 -
[44]
Edited by: SurrenderMonkey on 26/07/2010 16:46:46
Originally by: Mawmi Allawe
Originally by: Hainnz
A new character can be useful very quickly, but he'll also have to resign himself to flying T1 frigs/cruisers for a long time while he waits to not only train up to fly/fit better ships, but also quickly and easily replace those better ships.
And you think the majority of the vets are flying what for PVP, exactly?
Heh. With over 50 million SPs and over 5 billion liquid in my wallet, my most frequently flown PvP ship is an AML caracal.
You only get "better" with more SPs up to a certain point in Eve. After that, additional SPs go toward diversity. People just need to get over their bigger-is-better misconceptions. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
King Gore
The Church of Sentcha
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Posted - 2010.07.26 17:00:00 -
[45]
Fly a Maller. -
Originally by: Verone Happy Ishtar is extremely happy
Originally by: Kahn Souphanousinphone I thought I was going to live next to a powerful man, now I just live next to power.
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WarPonyDestroyer
Minmatar Omega-Fleet Motivated and Determined
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Posted - 2010.07.26 17:35:00 -
[46]
Being a new player, ( started on the 12th) I often thought being low on skill would ruin my experience. But, there are alot of new players. The player base is so huge I will be able to find players of same skill and isk, plus high sp players with low skill. I'm not worried.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.26 17:47:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Gwen Reinholds
Originally by: Khavi Kitamatsu The reality that EVE is new player friendly is an illusion to get more people to try and play it. Nothing more and nothing less. Anyone that thinks that EVE is new player friendly is delusional.
Glad to see there are people willing to be honest about it instead of toeing the party line.
Sorry you just dont understand the skillsystem in EVE. I guess its hard when its not just a fixed path to level 80.
I dont know any mmo that is more friendly to new players than EVE, when you dont consider the learning curve.
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Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.07.26 18:58:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Shawna Gray I dont know any mmo that is more friendly to new players than EVE, when you dont consider the learning curve.
You forgot the /sacrasm
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OT Smithers
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:00:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: OT Smithers Do you believe that your length of subscribtion should entitle you to an automatic win?
Do you believe that it currently does?
In PvP? Of course!
Nor is this a bad thing per se. The question is: How long should it take a new player to reach some competetive level? I think a few months is reasonably long enough. If the point of a PvP game is PvP then why not open those PvP gates to EVERYONE? Vets will still have the advantage of money, an advantage that would be even more significant with added demand for better fittings. Vets complain that it's hard to find good fights, then lobby to keep all the new players out.
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SurrenderMonkey
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:11:00 -
[50]
Originally by: OT Smithers The question is: How long should it take a new player to reach some competetive level? I think a few months is reasonably long enough.
You're in luck, then, because a few months is all it takes. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp |
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OT Smithers
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:14:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Sadly it's people like you that put off the newer players.
I didn't write the game. Threads like this one pop up for a reason. The OP in this thread was responding to what she (and anyone else paying the slightest attention) sees as a community concensus.
CCP is spamming the internet with ads for this game. They are EVERYWHERE, and are bringing in (and back) a lot of players. Sadly, every day another new player runs into the training wall. I think that's a shame, because this is a kick-ass game. I believe that CCP could probably quadruple their subscription numbers if they just made the damn game accessable to EVERYONE.
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Ikar Koronas
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: OT Smithers
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Sadly it's people like you that put off the newer players.
I didn't write the game. Threads like this one pop up for a reason. The OP in this thread was responding to what she (and anyone else paying the slightest attention) sees as a community concensus.
CCP is spamming the internet with ads for this game. They are EVERYWHERE, and are bringing in (and back) a lot of players. Sadly, every day another new player runs into the training wall. I think that's a shame, because this is a kick-ass game. I believe that CCP could probably quadruple their subscription numbers if they just made the damn game accessable to EVERYONE.
If you mean CCP should make the game like WoW, that's not going to happen. The game IS accessible to everyone; the vets just have access to better and more lucrative stuff. Does that mean that a relatively new player couldn't take on someone with years of play time under their belt? Of course not. EVE isn't a numbers game. It's not just whoever has the bigger number wins.
And you know, why shouldn't the people that play longer have access to better stuff? Isn't that kind of their reward for playing as long as they have? You can't jump into a game and expect to get the best stuff; no game like that exists.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:15:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 26/07/2010 21:15:44
Originally by: OT Smithers
I didn't write the game. Threads like this one pop up for a reason.
Yes when you are used to a system with a levelcap and x nr of classes EVEs skillsystem can be hard to understand. The missiongrinders populating the npc corps where newbies enter dont help either.
Originally by: OT Smithers
I believe that CCP could probably quadruple their subscription numbers if they just made the damn game accessable to EVERYONE.
If they made it just another levelgrind it would lose its customerbase. How many boring copycat mmo's do we really need.
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:32:00 -
[54]
Originally by: OT Smithers I didn't write the game. Threads like this one pop up for a reason. The OP in this thread was responding to what she (and anyone else paying the slightest attention) sees as a community concensus.
Actually, I created the thread in order that any newbs reading these forums before they actually played the game didn't believe the "hype" created by those vociferous doomsayers such as yourself.
Originally by: OT Smithers CCP is spamming the internet with ads for this game. They are EVERYWHERE, and are bringing in (and back) a lot of players. Sadly, every day another new player runs into the training wall. I think that's a shame, because this is a kick-ass game. I believe that CCP could probably quadruple their subscription numbers if they just made the damn game accessable to EVERYONE.
CCP has created a game quite unlike any other out there. As such it attracts those players that seek to be extended. Fortunately they are not looking to take over the world and have 100% of the game players out there subscribe. EVE is what it is because of those who play it. If you are looking for a game that demands commitment in order to succeed then come right on in. If, on the other hand you want EZ mode in everything you do then EVE is not the game for you. An easy choice IMO. -----
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Elipan
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:06:00 -
[55]
As others have said, there is way more to this game than just the numbers. If two identically fit ships met, one pilot was newer (lvl 3-4 skills) and the other pilot was a vet (lvl 5 skills + implants), the older pilot would obviously win. Funny thing is, that never happens.
Say, for example, you're a noob flying a Rifter fit with tI pvp mods. You come across a veteran hardcore PVPer that's been here since the beta flying a tII sniper-fit Moa without a web. Chances are the Moa will loose because it lacks the ability to counter the Rifter's speed and damage. On top of that, solo PVP is very rare so this battle can easily tip either way.
Also, I don't understand people who say that players who have been playing longer shouldn't have an advantage. Say you work at Walmart, and get promoted to department supervisor. You worked to get this position for over year. Should everyone who comes to work there after you also be promoted to supervisor with no effort involved? That's fair, after all.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:08:00 -
[56]
What a bunch of nonsense.
This is a game that rewards the patient. That said one most certainly can find plenty to do as a newbie. Will you be able to go toe to toe with a vet player? Probably not for a while then again you're not going toe to toe with Mike Tyson after 1 boxing lesson either.
One nice thing about this game is that there is so much to do. Yeah you won't be flying a dread 5 weeks after starting but honestly you're unlikely to be able to afford a dread 5 weeks after starting. Plus why would you want a ship like that. Rolling around solo in a dread is like painting a big gank me sign on your hull and broadcasting "Please blow up my expensive ship to pad your Killboard"
I used to play another MMO (EQ) and most of my non-raid time was spent grinding to keep up. I had to farm plat to pay for consumables I had to grind xp to make up for the all the deaths that were a part of the portion of the game I enjoyed. But grinding was quite frankly always a grind it as seldom fun usually vaguely annoying.
I'd log in because I need to get some xp to keep my level or I needed to make some plat to buy a resurrection stone or pay for some item I needed for what ever reason rather than simply for fun.
In EVE I log on to have fun. Since training goes on in the background I seldom even think about it other than once a day when I check my queue. I mean yeah the time it takes to train somethings gets on my nerves but it's not like I can't make due with something less and be successful.
I've been playing almost a year a good portion of it was just doing the carebear mission thing. I can't fly a single T2 ship. Yet I regularly fight against pilots with many times my sp and do very well thank you.
For the last three months I've done pretty much nothing but fight. My favorite frig to fly I've only gotten trained to 3 most of my gunnery support skills are only 2 or 3 I've got tons of sp in things I don't use on a regular basis and I did train most of my learnings to 5/4. Yet I'm in hte top 10k on Battleclinic which is a hell of a lot more than many veteran "PVP experts" can say.
I didn't specialize I went off my skill plan several times I've made tons of mistakes and had a hell of a lot of fun.
And there is absolutely nothing other than will and motivation to stop someone else from starting today and being in the exact same position next year.
In fact one could be far more effective much faster if one specialized.
The trick is to not get to caught up on what other people are doing or able to do. Learn what you can, fly what you can and have fun. A substantial part of success in this game is player rather than character based. and your enjoyment based on your expectations.
I'm reaching the end of an almost 1 year attribute map. I've pretty much trained nothing but support skills since around November of last year. Many people said that that sounded boring but it wasn't at all.
There are more than enough things to do with T1 ships. In fact most Null sec Corps don't ask you to be able fly HAC but rather want you to be able to fly T2 fit BC's which isn't that long a train at all if you focus on it.
I recently wrote up a newbie fitting guide for RVB focused at helping new pilots make effective fleet combat pilots quickly. The T1 punisher fit was a day and a half long train to take that to T2 fit was a grand total of 16 days. 10 more hours and one could expand your repertoire to include armor tanked rifters.
I've beaten pilots with more sp and been beaten by some with less. This entire post is rooted in nonsense.
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2010.07.27 05:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Skex Relbore This entire post is rooted in nonsense.
Err is it? You seem to be agreeing with a lot of what has already been said while at the same time bigging up your own "guru" rep. -----
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.07.27 06:06:00 -
[58]
Originally by: OT Smithers
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: OT Smithers Do you believe that your length of subscribtion should entitle you to an automatic win?
Do you believe that it currently does?
In PvP? Of course!
And yet it certainly doesn't. The main issue here is why you should think it does.
Potential advantages? Sure. Can those advantages be pretty significant? Definitely. That's what we call progression, and you'll find it's a pretty common theme in MMOs.
"Automatic win"? LOL no.
The 'new player vs old player in similar ship' fallacy often gets trotted out in these arguments. Yet such combats are incredibly rare. Sure, if you EFT up a 70M SP guy and a 700k SP guy in the same ship and have them orbit each other at optimal, then press F1, the 70M SP guy is always going to win. All that proves is the limits of stats analysis. In short, real PvP simply isn't like that. For a start, it's overwhelmingly group based.
Assuming a new player gets good training advice, he's going to be meaningfully limited by his SP for maybe 2-3 months. After that, he can engage - or at least participate - in most sub-capital PvP reasonably well, and his success is mostly going to be based on his own strengths and experiences. All this boo hoo I cant fly a dreadnaught so I'm useless forever more nonsense is just hilarious to those of us who can, and know how terribly limited (and boring, and a huge pain in the arse) such ships are.
PS as far as money goes, you'd probably be disappointed by how many "vets" are pretty much broke most of the time. And they're often the ones who are good at PvP too. The rich vets are generally those who focus on making ISK.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.07.27 06:40:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Pookie McPook
Originally by: Skex Relbore This entire post is rooted in nonsense.
Err is it? You seem to be agreeing with a lot of what has already been said while at the same time bigging up your own "guru" rep.
I was in a bit of a hurry when I wrote that.
The point I'm trying to make is that all games require some work at the front to become really good.
In EQ sure you could powerlevel up to max level pretty quickly if you played constantly but being Max level wasn't the end you still had to spend time doing the raids or grinding the instances to get the gear you needed to perform on par with the others on your level.
EVE isn't all that different save that instead of having to be patient and hope the goodie you want drops on the raid and you have enough DKP to bid and win the item you put a skill in the training queue and forget about it.
In many ways even is far more friendly to the solo player for that simple reason.
That said it isn't an easy game to master no one denies that. and the real time training does create an impediment to attaining the ability to use certain gear/ships. But not as much as many pretend.
Most of EVE works on the 80/20 rule. 80% of ones effectiveness is attained with the first 20% of effort. With a skill at level 4 you are 80% of what the guy with a L5 skill is at. and player skill can easily bridge the 20% that is left and a buddy can smash it.
In general the difference between a L4 and L5 skill is simply the access to T2 gear. And for the most part T2 gear is only better than T1 in price/performance. In many cases the best named is still preferred since it ofter has easier fitting requirements than the T2 counterpart.
In very few cases is an L5 a huge step up and in most of those cases it's when they open up some new class of ship or item. Even then those T2 ships aren't 80% more powerful than their T1 counterparts particularly when you toss in price. And heck if you ignore price in the case of faction and Deadspace/officer gear the T1 is better.
In fact the only real items I can think of that are a huge step up that can't be matched by a T1 counterpart are weapons and then only for access to long range T2 ammo.
The important thing is to have fun and not worry about catching up then soon enough you'll be 80% of the way there then next thing you know you'll be the one looking back telling people to suck it up.
Almost a year now and I've spent very little time thinking about how people have more skills than me. It's a part of life. I deal with what I have and plan my next step. you should do the same.
And it's not a question of my rep. I'm not anything special other than another guy who's played the game and had fun with it. My point is if I can do it anyone can. The climb always looks high from the bottom but if you put one foot in front of the other eventually you're looking back going "that wasn't so hard"
I still remember the first level 50 I saw in EQ thinking I'll never get there. Then I remember looking back on 80 levels remembering what it was like to be a newb.
My only guru bit is that I came into this game with the understanding of how this sort of thing works, that an MMO is by nature a long time commitment and that the best way to not become depressed by the length of the road is to pay attention to the hear and now.
Eve is very Zen in that regard. It rewards those who live in the present. You plan for the future but live in the now and that is the key to happiness both in the game and in life. Set realistic expectations and you will be able to exceed them.
Play to have fun then the journey becomes the joy rather than the trial.
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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2010.07.27 06:53:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Skex Relbore I came into this game with the understanding of how this sort of thing works, that an MMO is by nature a long time commitment and that the best way to not become depressed by the length of the road is to pay attention to the hear and now.
Eve is very Zen in that regard. It rewards those who live in the present. You plan for the future but live in the now and that is the key to happiness both in the game and in life. Set realistic expectations and you will be able to exceed them.
Play to have fun then the journey becomes the joy rather than the trial.
Unfortunately I fear we may be living during the time of the death of MMOs as we used to understand them. Games designers, by and large, no longer make expectations of its players with regard to motivation, patience and application. Rather they would prefer to reward twitch reflexes (which ping does its best to make a wholly uneven playing field), factoring in the expectation that no-one will hang around that long and will quickly be replaced by someone else. The taste left in the mouth is of one of dissatisfaction for many of us. EVE, for now, remains the bastion against this. For those that want the quick fix, XBox 360s are over in that direction ---> -----
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