Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 22:22:00 -
[1]
Looking for a loan so I can do an experiment. Starting small at 6 billion isk with a conservative 5% payback as I am not positive this will work. Worst case scenario is you get the 6 billion isk as that is the baseprice of the goods in question.
I am assuming I will be able to make good on the loan inside of 60 days, but I am not positive.
If anybody wants details on the experiment, feel free to contact me in-game and we can discuss things. No, I will not supply collateral.
If someone wants a reference, LadyOfWrath knows me pretty well and can probably give you an objective view of my history. Can't really think of anybody else with a better rep, but I know some of you have been in the Kanpuu Elite channel before I closed it and know that most of the time I am not an idiot.
|
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 22:32:00 -
[2]
So because you know LoW, you don't have to put any work into your offering! GG GTFO!
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 22:54:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Ji Sama So because you know LoW, you don't have to put any work into your offering! GG GTFO!
I didn't say that at all, and also invited people to talk with me one on one about the project. I also acknowledged it is a relatively high risk low reward proposition so I thought I would spare MD the fluff and bull****. Sorry.
|
Onyth
Had Holdings
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 22:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Boma Airaken I didn't say that at all, and also invited people to talk with me one on one about the project. I also acknowledged it is a relatively high risk low reward proposition so I thought I would spare MD the fluff and bull****. Sorry.
Most investors like that flull & bull**** though :p and considering you're the one wanting their iskies it might be a good idea to go with what they like xD
Look up some of the loans that took off.
On a sidenote, saying your project might just not work out is not realy helping either, if you loan money in the real world, and when its time to pay up the interests you don't tell the bank 'Well it didn't quite work out the way I planned so I can only realy repay you the original amount'. 1 think is for sure, they will NOT be happy. Simply put, the investor can use his isk at other places too, if you realy want it to be a no profit no return, then make an ipo where a % of the profit goes to the investors rather than a % of the investment. But even then you might want to put in some more research/try with a smaller sum to see if what you're planning to do is actualy worthwhile!
|
Julian Koll
The Kollektive
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 23:23:00 -
[5]
Im just wondering, has any of those 'i dont wanna post a wall of text and much rather talk to investors ingame' things picked up? And if so, whats the scam quote on those that did?
|
israus
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 23:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Boma Airaken
I didn't say that at all, and also invited people to talk with me one on one about the project. I also acknowledged it is a relatively high risk low reward proposition so I thought I would spare MD the fluff and bull****. Sorry.
your failing on so many levels here its hard to believe. first off your saying its high risk low reward why the hell would anybody invest in a high risk venture if the gains for them aren't worth the risk.
secondly not only are you saying its high risk but you want to start off small with a 6 billion loan. well that is a huge loan for a first time offering. even more so for a first time offering with high risk. and i'd like to know how your going to garentee the investors money given you won't be offering collateral.
and the other side of the interest rate this loan could run 60 days and your only offering a flat 5% on that 60 days which means a smashing 2.5% for the investor even less attractive now.
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 23:30:00 -
[7]
Frankly, I am a fan of openness and honesty. I don't want to make a bunch of promises I may not be able to keep, and I have seen them in some other loan request/IPO/bond threads. If I don't get the isk in the form of a loan, I can probably grind it, I am just trying to accelerate the process.
I don't like the fluff and bull**** wall of text empty promises format, and I doubt that the kind of investor willing to go in halfsies on this venture with me would either. Nothing wrong with targeted advertising.
I really don't see what you guys are getting so excited about. I was honest about the proposition, and provided a reference, and invited those who may be interested to have a talk with me. Hell, I will even start a channel in game and do a round table with multiple people if need be.
The whole "nobody on MD is going to tell you how they make their money" mentality doesn't really flush with you guys asking me to post in detail what I plan on doing in the same forum.
If you are interested, we will talk. If not, FO time?
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 23:39:00 -
[8]
Originally by: israus
Originally by: Boma Airaken
I didn't say that at all, and also invited people to talk with me one on one about the project. I also acknowledged it is a relatively high risk low reward proposition so I thought I would spare MD the fluff and bull****. Sorry.
your failing on so many levels here its hard to believe. first off your saying its high risk low reward why the hell would anybody invest in a high risk venture if the gains for them aren't worth the risk.
secondly not only are you saying its high risk but you want to start off small with a 6 billion loan. well that is a huge loan for a first time offering. even more so for a first time offering with high risk. and i'd like to know how your going to garentee the investors money given you won't be offering collateral.
and the other side of the interest rate this loan could run 60 days and your only offering a flat 5% on that 60 days which means a smashing 2.5% for the investor even less attractive now.
To address some of your points.
First and foremost I said it was an experiment. Lots of people like experiments and taking risks and having fun in video games, Mr. Meryll Lynch. If it works out a large scale venture would be undertaken with a bond offering with priority reservations to the initial investor(s).
Second, I said the baseprice of the commodity in question is equal to the amount of the loan, so at the end of the day I can just give the investor his money back by liquidating the commodity at NPC price quite quickly.
Third, if it DOES work, there is alot of money in it for me and future investors, so if I just steal the PALTRY sum of 6 billion isk I am not going to get future investors which means I lose out on an opportunity to make **** tons of isk without spending my own money. Which would be stupid.
I understand that MD people all like to take the iskies seriously and act like the host of Money Talk, but really. It is 6 billion isk.
|
Casmy Blue
Gallente Power and Water
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 23:43:00 -
[9]
Rules of reading the MD forums:
1. Don't ever give any of your ISK to someone without collateral.
2. Don't ever trust that if you do give your ISK to someone with collateral that they will do anything but lose it all.
3. See rule 1.
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 23:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Casmy Blue Rules of reading the MD forums:
1. Don't ever give any of your ISK to someone without collateral.
2. Don't ever trust that if you do give your ISK to someone with collateral that they will do anything but lose it all.
3. See rule 1.
I don't recall getting any collateral when I bought shares in One Stop, and it worked out quite swimmingly for me.
|
|
Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries manufacturing disaster
|
Posted - 2010.07.23 23:53:00 -
[11]
This thread is now EPIC
|
israus
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 00:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Boma Airaken
To address some of your points.
First and foremost I said it was an experiment. Lots of people like experiments and taking risks and having fun in video games, Mr. Meryll Lynch. If it works out a large scale venture would be undertaken with a bond offering with priority reservations to the initial investor(s).
people do like taking risks with there money I agree but what the seek from those risks is a fair return the return your offering is lower then 99% of offerings that appear here. lower then a great deal of fully secured offerings from people on there 4th or 5th loan
Quote:
Second, I said the baseprice of the commodity in question is equal to the amount of the loan, so at the end of the day I can just give the investor his money back by liquidating the commodity at NPC price quite quickly.
so if thats the case why can't the good be held by a trusted 3rd party till your ready to liquidate them and give investors the collateral ?
Quote:
Third, if it DOES work, there is alot of money in it for me and future investors, so if I just steal the PALTRY sum of 6 billion isk I am not going to get future investors which means I lose out on an opportunity to make **** tons of isk without spending my own money. Which would be stupid.
I understand that MD people all like to take the iskies seriously and act like the host of Money Talk, but really. It is 6 billion isk.
yeah but you see all we have to go on about this being a potental money spinner is you saying it is. its just as likely you've made up this to get 6 bil out of the MD community and there is no future money making oppotunity
your talking about 6 billion as if its nothing yet if you've bothered to look into how the loans market works on here its about 3-6 times largers the normal first time offerings for unknowns on the forums.
people will invest and do invest in some crazy crap on here but your not giving people a lot of work with crap rate of return. huge risk by your own admission and no collateral.
|
israus
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 00:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Boma Airaken
I don't recall getting any collateral when I bought shares in One Stop, and it worked out quite swimmingly for me.
really so one stop haven't got like 130 billion in bpo's locked down as collateral??
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 00:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: israus
Originally by: Boma Airaken
I don't recall getting any collateral when I bought shares in One Stop, and it worked out quite swimmingly for me.
really so one stop haven't got like 130 billion in bpo's locked down as collateral??
If I don't have access to them, it is not collateral.
|
israus
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 00:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Boma Airaken
If I don't have access to them, it is not collateral.
lol fail your not required to have access to them for them to be collateral you just have to know the person you invested money in can't get access to them either.
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 00:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: israus
so if thats the case why can't the good be held by a trusted 3rd party till your ready to liquidate them and give investors the collateral ?
This is actually a possibility but it would be pretty demanding on said third party for reasons I would rather not disclose in public. With the right third party that wouldn't mind the burden, it could work out rather well, but in the initial offering it would actually diminish already paltry profits.
And for the low rate of return people, when i said a conservative 5% interest, I was being VERY cautious so as not to get peoples hopes up. There is a possibility it could be much more. The problem is there is no data to analyze to determine the profitability of the venture.
I will check out some third party options and see what their fees for both services involved would be as for this to work they couldn't just "secure" the commodity, there would have to be active involvement in the venture. If I can find someone willing to take on the burden and have it remain theoretically profitable, I will happily secure their services.
|
Phoebe Halliwel
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 00:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Boma Airaken Frankly, I am a fan of openness and honesty.
State your business plan, at least in broad terms, so people can at least attempt to assess the risk. There's 0 information here except how much isk you want and the fact you know LoW (supposedly). Unless he confirms this it's just name dropping.
Quote: If I don't get the isk in the form of a loan, I can probably grind it, I am just trying to accelerate the process.
Erm, go away and grind it then? People with short attention spans don't typically stand out as a great investment.
Quote: I really don't see what you guys are getting so excited about. I was honest about the proposition, and provided a reference, and invited those who may be interested to have a talk with me. Hell, I will even start a channel in game and do a round table with multiple people if need be.
If LoW is a reference why isn't he acting as guarantor, or funding you direct?
People want public forum posts so there is viewable evidence of statements made by both parties. If you want to conduct this offering in a private channel, go do it in Jita local.
Quote: The whole "nobody on MD is going to tell you how they make their money" mentality doesn't really flush with you guys asking me to post in detail what I plan on doing in the same forum.
Same goes for muppets who know nothing, claiming to be squillionares.
Quote: If you are interested, we will talk. If not, FO time?
Telling MD to **** off in your 3rd post related to this offering = priceless.
Best of luck with the offering.
|
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 00:28:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Boma Airaken Proposal
Get with me in game or via eve mail about your project/experiment. I'll be more than willing to help you satisfy the needs of the community while you work with your information and resources intelligently. However this current tack is not going to bring you much success at all. Also, if you can get good reference from someone be proactive about having that person post it. Taking too long can seem like reticence on the part of the person speaking up for you. (I.e. Not a good showing.)
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 00:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: israus
Originally by: Boma Airaken
If I don't have access to them, it is not collateral.
lol fail your not required to have access to them for them to be collateral you just have to know the person you invested money in can't get access to them either.
Lock down whatever you want. SOMEONE has access to them, and I am willing to bet it is not the investor. No matter what, trust and risk are factors.
|
israus
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 00:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Lock down whatever you want. SOMEONE has access to them, and I am willing to bet it is not the investor. No matter what, trust and risk are factors.
lol it wouldn't be phyisically possable for everybody who invested in one stop to get a lock down vote. thats the whole point in trusted 3rd parties.
just as in when people ask for collateral on loans they normally ask they be locked down with a 3rd party so both the investor and investee feel safe that there interests are being servered.
|
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 01:04:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel
State your business plan, at least in broad terms, so people can at least attempt to assess the risk.
Ok, I will bite. I am going to buy some stuff, do some stuff with it, and then sell it to people who do not want to buy the stuff and also do the stuff with the stuff at a profit. Sound familiar?
|
Phoebe Halliwel
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 01:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel
State your business plan, at least in broad terms, so people can at least attempt to assess the risk.
Ok, I will bite. I am going to buy some stuff, do some stuff with it, and then sell it to people who do not want to buy the stuff and also do the stuff with the stuff at a profit. Sound familiar?
Nope. Repeat it to me again.... and draw a picture... and.... might be an idea to be moderately polite when asking for other people's ISK.
There's a free audit fund, so no reason for no audit, unless you have 0.10 isk, or are deluded enough to think your "idea" is unique.
If LoW is willing to confirm your character, can't see why he can't fund you.
6b isn't that much, why can't you self fund or partially collateralise? LoW would probably be considered a trusted 3rd party.
If you don't own assets worth 6b what evidence is there you can manage that level of funds?
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 01:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel
State your business plan, at least in broad terms, so people can at least attempt to assess the risk.
Ok, I will bite. I am going to buy some stuff, do some stuff with it, and then sell it to people who do not want to buy the stuff and also do the stuff with the stuff at a profit. Sound familiar?
Nope. Repeat it to me again.... and draw a picture... and.... might be an idea to be moderately polite when asking for other people's ISK.
There's a free audit fund, so no reason for no audit, unless you have 0.10 isk, or are deluded enough to think your "idea" is unique.
If LoW is willing to confirm your character, can't see why he can't fund you.
6b isn't that much, why can't you self fund or partially collateralise? LoW would probably be considered a trusted 3rd party.
If you don't own assets worth 6b what evidence is there you can manage that level of funds?
I am pretty sure I have assets in excess of 6b, I already have 5b in on the project that can be confirmed via API, I am not going to bug LoW, if LoW wants to weigh in thats great, if not you ask him. When was the last time you asked a reference call your potential employer rather than the other way around? An audit is fine but it is going to show some pretty wonky numbers based on what I normally do, as I am not an industry ***** or station trader. Like I said, third party could work but it would be a pain in the ass for them (scroll up), and sorry no pics I don't know how to use MS Paint.
Also, last time I checked, arrogance is a sign of self confidence. Have I covered everything?
|
ThisIsNotMyAlt
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 01:44:00 -
[24]
lol @op, you'll not get any investors with that kind of attitude :P
you need to be nice to them and answer their questions in detail and bring all your friends along to post how cool of a fellow you are. |
Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 01:47:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Also, last time I checked, arrogance is a sign of self confidence. Have I covered everything?
That is exactly why no one will invest with you. You've dodged most questions and acted like an ass.
Remember YOU are here to ask US for ISK. We are not seeking you to invest in.
You have to play by the MD rules are else tough ****!
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 01:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ThisIsNotMyAlt lol @op, you'll not get any investors with that kind of attitude :P
you need to be nice to them and answer their questions in detail and bring all your friends along to post how cool of a fellow you are.
Of course not. Spunk and ambition with a side of **** and vinegar is feared rather than valued in this day and age. And of course I have to go into detail. People here want to make money right? Why not get it figured out from the guy with the idea and just do it yourself?
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 01:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Also, last time I checked, arrogance is a sign of self confidence. Have I covered everything?
That is exactly why no one will invest with you. You've dodged most questions and acted like an ass.
Remember YOU are here to ask US for ISK. We are not seeking you to invest in.
You have to play by the MD rules are else tough ****!
Oh it is basically just reverse trolling at this point. There was no reason for anyone to go on the offensive in the first place. I mean how else am I going to respond to the reaction to simply inviting people to have a face to face about loaning me a small sum of money? The whole thing turned silly at the first reply tbfh. Embarrassing as the moron in the chick flick.
|
Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 02:06:00 -
[28]
Suprisingly we don't always judge people on the answers they give. We judge them on how they handle the questions and criticism that are thrown in their face.
If they react calmly and give sensible answers thats much better than acting like a jackass and giving sensible answers, or getting defensive.
|
Boma Airaken
Harlock's Vindicta Aggressive Dissonance
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 02:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Breaker77 Suprisingly we don't always judge people on the answers they give. We judge them on how they handle the questions and criticism that are thrown in their face.
If they react calmly and give sensible answers thats much better than acting like a jackass and giving sensible answers, or getting defensive.
So answering all the questions poignantly and being as honest and informative as I am comfortable with, and adding a healthy amount of ribbing and not getting even remotely defensive is not the way to do it? Noted. Guess it can be attributed to interpretation.
|
Krythas
|
Posted - 2010.07.24 04:14:00 -
[30]
From your first sentence you were failing at the honesty card.
Originally by: Boma Airaken Looking for a loan so I can do an experiment. Starting small at 6 billion isk with a conservative 5% payback as I am not positive this will work. Worst case scenario is you get the 6 billion isk as that is the baseprice of the goods in question.
Is not being honest, Hoesnty would have said
Originally by: Boma Airaken Looking for a loan so I can do an experiment. Starting small at 6 billion isk with a conservative 5% payback as I am not positive this will work. Worst case scenario is you lose the 6 billion isk as I could quite happily run off with it.
Except, that doesn't really do much to endear potential investors to you right ? so you either lied about the potential risk (not honest) or completely missed a quite obvious risk (would you invest in stupid ?)
Either way, this is a failure before it started. (and that's just the first paragraph of an obviously well written proposal)
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |