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Flaming Lemming
Caldari Puppeteer Press
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Posted - 2010.07.26 17:45:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Flaming Lemming "They did it, so that makes it OK when we do it!"
That's not how I imagined the ethics of CVA to be.
Happily it's not how CVA ethics are or ever have been. Quite simply, unspoken (or quitely spoken about)agreements about standards of combat between Ushra'Khan and CVA have been declared null and void by Ushra'Khan themselves. We are no longer under any obligation to cease our Crusade, mandated by God and in support of His Holy Empire, simply because Ushra'Khan security protocols are lacking and trust was misplaced.
My misunderstanding. I guess "The end justifies the means, even if it means our glorious and oh so pious leader is an accessory before the fact of a completetly unethical act." is more accurate.
(Not an illegal act, as it is permitted by Concord, but amongst the most unethical acts possible in New Eden.)
If your god looks upon this with favour, then it is no god, but a devil indeed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.26 18:07:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Flaming Lemming My misunderstanding. I guess "The end justifies the means, even if it means our glorious and oh so pious leader is an accessory before the fact of a completetly unethical act." is more accurate.
God will be our judge.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.26 18:24:00 -
[93]
Rather sad to see you reduced to this Garreck.
Join the Revolution!
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Michael Bross
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.26 18:32:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Garreck God will be our judge.
I hope hes a forgiving god, cause the judgements of man don't bode to well for you.
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Revan Neferis
Amarr The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 18:51:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Garreck God will be our judge.
No. But your mind will. Rise my friend. You're better than this.
Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik
Totally pagan, totally beautiful, totally worshipful. This is life
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Sofia Roseburn
Caldari Mercury Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 18:56:00 -
[96]
Holy **** I'm having a stroke.
It's interesting to watch though, especially with all the hollow words being thrown around by the Bloc. --- |
Flaming Lemming
Caldari Puppeteer Press
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Posted - 2010.07.26 19:18:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Garreck
Originally by: Flaming Lemming My misunderstanding. I guess "The end justifies the means, even if it means our glorious and oh so pious leader is an accessory before the fact of a completetly unethical act." is more accurate.
God will be our judge.
Yes, it will. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Thoughtcrime does not entail death: thoughtcrime is death |
Graelyn
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2010.07.26 19:23:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Sofia Roseburn
It's interesting to watch though, especially with all the hollow words being thrown around by the Bloc.
Do you consider CVA 'the Bloc'? What a silly assumption....
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.26 19:38:00 -
[99]
Let us make sure we are remaining on topic, before throwing around emotionally charged sentiments of "disappointment" or the supposed degradation of CVA honor (which our enemies would be hypocrites to pretend to care about...if we were to shatter our credibility you would be dancing for joy, not wagging your finger.)
CVA is not a part of Hydra's "schemes," as Lord Blake put it, in Providence. NBSI is not compatible with the vision of an Amarrian Providence, and the last information I have is that Hydra operates NBSI.
That is the topic of discussion here, as directed by Lord Blake himself.
That does not change our history of combat with Ushra'Khan, that does not change the threat posed by Ushra'Khan to the Empire and to an Amarrian vision of Providence...and it does not change the regular reminders from veteran and senior Ushra'Khan pilots themselves during the more painful days of our defeat in Providence that previous rules of decorum between our organizations need no longer apply.
We will continue operations in Providence with the dream of the restoration of what is rightfully ours.
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Sofia Roseburn
Caldari Mercury Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 19:47:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Graelyn
Originally by: Sofia Roseburn
It's interesting to watch though, especially with all the hollow words being thrown around by the Bloc.
Do you consider CVA 'the Bloc'? What a silly assumption....
Do you still consider CVA to be "the Bloc"? It's not exactly hard to form a new one from all the junk that's washed into Providence now, is it? --- |
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Graelyn
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:03:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Sofia Roseburn Do you still consider CVA to be "the Bloc"?
Haha!
No.
You are a younger pilot, so your question is understandable. I do not intend to insult.
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Sofia Roseburn
Caldari Mercury Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:24:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Graelyn
You are a younger pilot, so your question is understandable. I do not intend to insult.
No, you just sound like a moron when you open your mouth. Age has no relation to pilot intelligence. --- |
Black Necris
Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:54:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Black Necris on 26/07/2010 20:56:17 I don't know why people complain about CVA being dishonorable, since when they had any honor? Long time ago i learned that CVA and Aralis will crawl like the lowest worm and take the lowest path if that path leads to their objective.
Long time ago CVA showed their lack of honor by abusing the Concord Mechanics, by avoiding engagements and instead wining the first war for Unity by what was known on the days as "POS spamming". Long ago since CVA used menaces to make pilots obey their bidding. Long ago since Aralis, Garreck and CVA had a hint of honor on them. This shouln't be a surprise to anyone.
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." |
Graelyn
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2010.07.26 20:57:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Graelyn on 26/07/2010 20:57:35
Originally by: Sofia Roseburn
Originally by: Graelyn
You are a younger pilot, so your question is understandable. I do not intend to insult.
No, you just sound like a moron when you open your mouth. Age has no relation to pilot intelligence.
You asked a question that a more experienced pilot with some knowledge of history would consider dumb. I tried to be polite. Your tantrum is noted.
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Sinjin Mokk
Amarr Khanid Provincial Vanguard
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:03:00 -
[105]
How very interesting.
Please forgive any impertinence Garreck, but when you say,
Originally by: Garreck an Amarrian vision of Providence...
Do you have a specific decree in mind? Generally speaking, we should be bringing the Will of God everywhere, but why is Providence more important than say, the Bleak Lands or Devoid? What is this grand vision of Providence?
And when you say,
Originally by: Garreck We will continue operations in Providence with the dream of the restoration of what is rightfully ours.
You really mean to say, ôWhat is rightfully GodÆsö yes? Or at least ôWhat is rightfully The EmpireÆs?ö
You must realize that people here will easily misconstrue your words as meaning ôWhat is rightfully CVAÆs.ö
Earlier in this thread I echoed the general call for patience and prudence on the part of CVA. I humbly suggest a period of reflection and restructuring, keeping in mind that we are all supposed to be doing the work of God and Empire.
I will pray for you.
Oh, and a brief aside; if youÆre a member of a pirate or terrorist organization, you donÆt get to make any claims concerning ôhonorö or ôfairnessö while the blood of innocent law-abiding people is still on your hands. Those without morals cannot stand on the moral high ground.
Tales of the Dark Amarr
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Icarus3
Gallente DAEDALUS X The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:14:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Alistair Cononach
As we have always said, CVA does not make policy based on the whims of the Summit.
No but CVA does indeed modify their beliefs and policies as they see fit and as long as they seen it given them an advantage. Which is quite hypocritical as they've accused The Ushra'Khan and The Star Fraction of doing this very thing.
CVA have been working with HYDRA for months. HYDRA btw according to CVA are "pirates"... yet CVA frowns upon piracy? hmmm... interesting....
CVA continues to dig their hole deeper the more desperate they become.
A new EVE community |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:25:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk Do you have a specific decree in mind? Generally speaking, we should be bringing the Will of God everywhere, but why is Providence more important than say, the Bleak Lands or Devoid? What is this grand vision of Providence?
Providence is no more or less important than any region on the borders of the Empire or beyond; however it is where God's calling has taken us. Just as the Empress functions as God's voice for the Empire and Her leadership must be taken on faith, Aralis functions as God's voice for CVA and his leadership must be taken on faith by members of our alliance.
Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
You really mean to say, ôWhat is rightfully GodÆsö yes? Or at least ôWhat is rightfully The EmpireÆs?ö
You must realize that people here will easily misconstrue your words as meaning ôWhat is rightfully CVAÆs.ö
A very good question and a very good catch.
You must understand that we view Aralis as God's steward for Providence. What is "ours" is certainly God's by association. We have always spoken of Providence in such terms when God saw fit to let us watch over it. We can only hope to earn His trust again soon. In the mean time we carry on fighting in His name.
In the interest of keeping this discussion more or less on topic, I would certainly be happy to arrange an interview between yourself and Aralis if you were interested in further clarification.
Thank you for your prayers and your concerns. We have chosen a different path than many loyalists, but we all work to God's Glory.
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:33:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Icarus3 CVA have been working with HYDRA for months. HYDRA btw according to CVA are "pirates"... yet CVA frowns upon piracy? hmmm... interesting....
Hydra have a history of operating NBSI. This is not mutually inclusive with piracy. For a time, Hydra changed their rules of engagement in such fashion that our organizations were compatible (NRDS). They have since changed back to NBSI and are therefore no longer compatible with our objectives in Providence.
It's cute to interchange "NBSI" with "piracy" in the hopes of painting a picture of inconsistency, but it's also a fairly transparent attempt at smear. You're a bit out of your league here, kiddo.
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:55:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Garreck [ It's cute to interchange "NBSI" with "piracy" in the hopes of painting a picture of inconsistency, but it's also a fairly transparent attempt at smear. You're a bit out of your league here, kiddo.
Double standard much? |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.26 21:58:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Garreck on 26/07/2010 22:01:02
Originally by: Kazzzi
Double standard much?
That's cryptic.
Do you feel NBSI is piracy? In that case, do you consider the formerly styled Ushra'Khan to have been pirates, as they openly operated NBSI as suited them? That seems to fly in the face of a lot of what Ushra'Khan claimed to be (and not be, when they worked with a lot of organizations of questionable character.)
Is it CVA with the double standard, or Ushra'Khan?
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Princess Morenta
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:04:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Kazzzi
Originally by: Garreck [ It's cute to interchange "NBSI" with "piracy" in the hopes of painting a picture of inconsistency, but it's also a fairly transparent attempt at smear. You're a bit out of your league here, kiddo.
Double standard much?
Originally by: Piracy Definition Robbery committed at sea.
A similar act of robbery, as the hijacking of an airplane.
I'm sorry I missed the part when Hydra were ransoming/robbing people instead of mindlessly killing them?
Star Fraction are the biggest hypocrites around and their hatred for CVA is clear by the need to forum wh**e every event relating to them, blindly ignoring questions about their own conduct or anything that would paint them in a bad light,
And Ushra'Khan having being bitter over original 9-UY War and then letting every s****and vagabond join their band of brothers just was fail... I feel sorry because the old guard didnt deserve this but the new school like bitter dog clearly did, thats when UK died.. when they let their bitterness take over (Apparently CVA hacked their comms back then and other dastardly bull....)
Besides how can you compare a (illegal) hacking (CVA disbanding) to a ingame disbanding by a director... wahmbulance!
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:07:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Princess Morenta Star Fraction are the biggest hypocrites around and their hatred for CVA is clear by the need to forum wh**e every event relating to them, blindly ignoring questions about their own conduct or anything that would paint them in a bad light,
Something tells me you are another race-traitor. We're really unpopular with Matari who sell out their own.
Join the Revolution!
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:07:00 -
[113]
U'k has always been very clear and public with it's ROE. U'K has also made it clear that an ROE does not make an alliance, It's core values do.
CVA simply refers to any enemy as a pirate on whatever whim they choose. however once they are in bed with such a pirate, they remove the label. These forums are filled with hundreds of examples. |
Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:12:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Kazzzi
CVA simply refers to any enemy as a pirate on whatever whim they choose.
That is a massive oversimplification, and essentially incorrect. Your examples, I'm sure, are in fact misunderstandings.
Some of our enemies are pirates. Some are terrorists. Some are anarchists. Some simply operate under rules of engagement that are not compatible with our objectives.
Some seek forgiveness. Sometimes we see fit to forgive.
But we're really begging the question now, aren't we Kazzzi?
I'll let you be. I know too well the sting of loss you're experiencing.
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Kazzzi
Amarr Minmatar Ship Construction Services Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:15:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Garreck Your examples, I'm sure, are in fact misunderstandings.
Congratulations on being the most misunderstood alliance in new Eden. |
Gerrin Deveroux
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Posted - 2010.07.26 22:19:00 -
[116]
While it is good to see Providence once again thrown into turmoil, for us, it's just more reds to shoot at :)
Especially so since Aralis has made my corp KOS (we flew with PXF and LFA previously), so my take on this is frag em all and let their god sort em out :)
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Black Necris
Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.07.26 23:28:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Garreck I'll let you be. I know too well the sting of loss you're experiencing.
Different alliances, different cases, in our case it was betrayal and low life scums that took advantage of missplaced trust and that brought a loss.
In your case it was pride and a lack of backbone to defend such pride that brought your loss.
In our case nothing but a name was lost, in your case it was more than that.
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." |
Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar Fates Assembly The Final Stand.
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Posted - 2010.07.27 00:13:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Archbishop in the corp theft orchestrated by DX4. While certainly there was somewhat a measure of "payback" there no one from the Star Fraction or DX4 ever provided proof there were no innocents harmed in the massive corp theft operation they committed.
the mistake that keeps being made is talking aboutt hings I have been involved with. You know its going to end baddly because I haven't changed how I roll since the start of the capsuleer program.
Clarification: The items and the POs were stolen from DX4 by the Executor of Tenchigo BlahBlahBlah alliance.
Additionally Star Fraction, Jade herself valiabtly attempted mediation between Eurz and DX4.
Spectrum and DX4 built those ships (the carrier in the wormhole itself) and put up that POS, and feld it and defended it. The Thanatos was Bonker's carrier.
Eurz was given a chance to make minimal ammends even. He refused, smug in the false suposition he could use his ill gotten capital ship and deathstar POs in a low level worm hole to withstand any attack. With SF's suppurt DX4 reclaimed their lost goods, and spectrum was given their fair share for they too were stolen from.
Spectrum Alliance was even pro-CVA at the time (before CVA lost their honor in the Hydra couch cushions), yet DX4 gave back what was stolen.
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The Final Stand Forum
Fate Assembly Forum
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Archbishop
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.27 00:19:00 -
[119]
It certainly is satisfying to see CVA proven innocent of charges of participating in this Hydra takeover of UK. Aside from a few smears thrown about by the obsessive stalkers of the Star Fraction we've seen absolutely nothing to indicate CVA took part in this action. Perhaps it is the realization by said Star Fraction that they themselves HAVE participated DIRECTLY in actions of corp theft and betrayal in the case of DX4 and their act of revenge on a former comrade.
In the case of CVA we have nothing except Aralis knowing about the Hydra action two days in advance and remaining silent. No indication of participation, no indication of providing support, no indication of planning with Hydra... contrast that to the Star Fraction's own admitted participation in the corp theft of DX4's former comrade and it's clear the anarchists simply wish to distract people from the obvious.
I can only assume the continued silence by Jade to my query comparing the two scenarios (previous page) indicates she is completely baffled how to respond. Such things happens when the truth is apparent and once again we have the Star Fraction facing an inconvienent truth. It is like a game show with two doors. Will you take door #1 or door #2.
#1 - Knew about an act and kept silent.
#2 - Knew about an act, participated in it, provided full support and planning assistance and bragged about it on IGS later.
There is quite a difference here. Unfortunately for the anarchists behind door #2 is the logo of the Star Fraction and not the CVA. Inconvienent truth for them but truth nonetheless.
Archbishop
PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL |
Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2010.07.27 00:41:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Princess Morenta Star Fraction are the biggest hypocrites around and their hatred for CVA is clear by the need to forum wh**e every event relating to them, blindly ignoring questions about their own conduct or anything that would paint them in a bad light,
Something tells me you are another race-traitor. We're really unpopular with Matari who sell out their own.
Again with the race traitor card? hmmm. Look in the mirror wench, I am sure the Gallente Federation doesn't hold you in high regard, for a plethora of reasons.
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