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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.09.15 23:51:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Ghoest This intellectually bankrupt and insulting thread hasnt died yet?Invalid!!Invalid.INVALID
E X T E R M I N A T E ! ! !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Raz Xym
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Posted - 2010.09.16 00:57:00 -
[392]
I never read each and every reply, but I don't think they should be removed. Infact, now that we have invention, they should be brought back into the game. Bring back the lottery. If there are secure ways to give away million and billion of real money via lotteries, surely CCP can come up with a secure method to run the T2 BPO lottery. The orignal T2 BPO owners had a good run, but perhaps it's time to let some newer members try their luck. And, if you bought into a hugely overpriced T2 BPO recently, just pretend you bought into a bubble and it burst. To bad, so sad, thats life. You just been Concorded.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.16 02:23:00 -
[393]
ok first off CCP buying them, bascialy a non starter is what I am guessing, every one they buy will make existing ones "worth more" as a collectors item untill they find themselves in a situation where they end up haveing to flood the game with ISK to buy the last handfull
Second, lets be blunt, every year or so CCP adds in something new to the game that, directly or indirectly impacts the payoff value of thoes BPs, usualy in a negative way.
more T3 ships and eventualy T3 modules when they get around to designing and releasing them will eventualy result in the percentage of people who buy T2 shrinking
More players, as time goes forward, will result in the % of goods that CAN be produced by a T2 bpo to meet a growing demand for T2+ or better modules
T2 BPOs leaving the game from destruction or perminently cancled accounts or accounts that get banned by CCP will result in the Collector value of thoes BPOs being higher than the real worth of said BPO.
Lets face it I suspect that by this point anyone buying a BPO is doing so because of the "scarcity/novelty" of haveing said BPO more than any real anticipation that it will actualy pay off for them in the long run.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.09.18 16:34:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Steve Thomas [...]T2 BPOs leaving the game from destruction or perminently cancled accounts or accounts that get banned by CCP will result in the Collector value of thoes BPOs being higher than the real worth of said BPO[...]
You could argue that it already happened, at least for some T2 BPOs And from certain viewpoints, you can even argue that it partially happened to all T2 BPOs, since no way in hell would anybody consider 3 to 5 years for "break-even" something acceptable otherwise. _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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ChrisIsherwood
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Posted - 2010.09.18 18:39:00 -
[395]
Originally by: Akita T
Just because something is POPULAR doesn't mean it's right. Putting something like this to a vote would have absolutely no merit in determining the validity of arguments for or against it. ... People that have no clue what they're voting for will not matter. People that know the facts best will have the most influence.
It depends on whether this is an intellectual argument or a game design argument.
Just because something is POPULAR doesn't mean it's morally right.
Just because something is POPULAR doesn't mean it's intelligent or intellectually logical. Probably the contrary.
If you are a game design company, in a competitive environment, trying to get people to give you discretionary money in tough economic times, then it is seems like doing what your customers want has very considerable appeal.
Churchill said ôThe best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.ö but that was before Internet forums were invented.
Right now any 30+ day mouth-breather subscriber who thinks WoW is too complicated can vote for the CSM (and it's close - 89 additional votes and the 3rd runner-up is elected) And the CSM is an official stakeholder with CCP and influencing all features. Alas, there is no precedence, in game or IRL, for only letting knowledgeable people vote.
Even if there are no formal votes, CCP gets feedback: someone subscribes and someone else unsubscribes about once a minute.
I am not saying any of these votes should happen. I am just saying that if you are a for-profit company with obligations to shareholders, popular with the customers can be a sufficient argument, logic not withstanding.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.09.18 21:08:00 -
[396]
If I get it right the Star War MMORPG was destroyed by the people request to be capable of being a Jedi with ease and then discovering that a game full of Jedi sucks (never played it, but this is what I get from people that played it).
A smart company will try not to get what people "want" but what people "need".
If you should go for what people want ganking in high sec would be impossible, wars would be possible only if the other corp/alliance accept them and so on. If we follow what the other half of the forum goers want we will have only 0.0 with permanent station camps around the starter stations for new players.
Instead we have a middle ground that make most people happy enough or not too unhappy.
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LoneLeader
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Posted - 2010.09.18 21:15:00 -
[397]
People got them by "luck".. Why not start handing out t3 bpo's to random people? or faction bpo's, or free titans?
T2 bpo's = free isk handed out to random people. me not likey.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.09.18 23:45:00 -
[398]
Originally by: LoneLeader People got them by "luck".. Why not start handing out t3 bpo's to random people? or faction bpo's, or free titans? T2 bpo's = free isk handed out to random people. me not likey.
That stopped years ago and most of the people that got them already traded them in for ISK. So... a) how would removing them now correct the mistake made in the past (answer : it won't) and b) how would this be any fairer than what happened back then (answer : randomly removing stuff that people paid a lot of ISK for is not fair at all). The LOTTERY was not the best of ideas. The lottery is gone. T2 BPOs remain, because removing them would be an even worse idea.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.09.19 02:06:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Steve Thomas [...]T2 BPOs leaving the game from destruction or perminently cancled accounts or accounts that get banned by CCP will result in the Collector value of thoes BPOs being higher than the real worth of said BPO[...]
You could argue that it already happened, at least for some T2 BPOs And from certain viewpoints, you can even argue that it partially happened to all T2 BPOs, since no way in hell would anybody consider 3 to 5 years for "break-even" something acceptable otherwise.
well to be blunt some of the BPOs were not worth anything to start with.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.19 12:34:00 -
[400]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 19/09/2010 12:34:45
Originally by: Steve Thomas well to be blunt some of the BPOs were not worth anything to start with.
Correct.
Faction Amo has crashed the price of most T2 Ammo. The LP store and Officer loot have put a lot of pressure on T2 Module prices. T3 is putting pressure on some T2 ships, and T2 invention on the rest.
T2 BPO have long stopped being a licences to print money, the value of most has halved over the last year or so.
The lack of profitability from invention has more to do with those who believe their data cores are free.
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LoneLeader
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Posted - 2010.09.19 14:24:00 -
[401]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: LoneLeader People got them by "luck".. Why not start handing out t3 bpo's to random people? or faction bpo's, or free titans? T2 bpo's = free isk handed out to random people. me not likey.
That stopped years ago and most of the people that got them already traded them in for ISK. So... a) how would removing them now correct the mistake made in the past (answer : it won't) and b) how would this be any fairer than what happened back then (answer : randomly removing stuff that people paid a lot of ISK for is not fair at all). The LOTTERY was not the best of ideas. The lottery is gone. T2 BPOs remain, because removing them would be an even worse idea.
Give me a free titan, i trade it to someone else for isk and its fair?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.09.19 14:32:00 -
[402]
Edited by: Akita T on 19/09/2010 14:43:48
Originally by: LoneLeader
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: LoneLeader People got them by "luck".. Why not start handing out t3 bpo's to random people? or faction bpo's, or free titans? T2 bpo's = free isk handed out to random people. me not likey.
That stopped years ago and most of the people that got them already traded them in for ISK. So... a) how would removing them now correct the mistake made in the past (answer : it won't) and b) how would this be any fairer than what happened back then (answer : randomly removing stuff that people paid a lot of ISK for is not fair at all). The LOTTERY was not the best of ideas. The lottery is gone. T2 BPOs remain, because removing them would be an even worse idea.
Give me a free titan, i trade it to someone else for isk and its fair?
Are you really this ignorant or are you just being intentionally facetious ? Nobody said the lottery was a good idea or fair or whatnot. THAT'S WHY IT WAS REMOVED. The post you just quoted explained that already, so it's a bit hard to believe you are both smart and completely serious. Let me repeat that in simpler terms just in case you still don't get it : lottery bad, now gone... T2 BPOs meh, they stay.
What if I'm CCP and give you (and a few other semi-randomly chosen people, out of those that bought some lottery ticket) a free titan, most of you sell them for ISK, then next year, I delete the titans from whoever has them at that time ?!? You know, also from the people who DIDN'T receive any free titans, but people that PAID for them with ISK gained in other (as far as you know) perfectly legitimate and fair ways. Because that's the correct analogy of "titans => T2 BPOs".
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Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.09.19 15:18:00 -
[403]
Edited by: Nahkep Narmelion on 19/09/2010 15:26:05
Originally by: LoneLeader
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: LoneLeader People got them by "luck".. Why not start handing out t3 bpo's to random people? or faction bpo's, or free titans? T2 bpo's = free isk handed out to random people. me not likey.
That stopped years ago and most of the people that got them already traded them in for ISK. So... a) how would removing them now correct the mistake made in the past (answer : it won't) and b) how would this be any fairer than what happened back then (answer : randomly removing stuff that people paid a lot of ISK for is not fair at all). The LOTTERY was not the best of ideas. The lottery is gone. T2 BPOs remain, because removing them would be an even worse idea.
Give me a free titan, i trade it to someone else for isk and its fair?
Stupid troll is stupid.
Of course, it wouldn't be fair to give someone a titan for "free". Of course no T2 BPOs were handed out for free. I wasn't in game when the lottery was active, but my understanding is that it was just "we'll just pick a lucky sod out of the hat." One's chances depended on how many RPs one had and so people would grind the R&D agents on multiple accounts because it was like getting a titan one could sell. In other words, like many things in life competition pushed the actual costs, both in game and RL up.
It is things like this why you are probably a lone leader...who'd want to follow such a bone head?
[Update] Let me add that while it is possible for someone to have won with 1 RP, my point is that when you look at all the effort spread across all of the New Eden community the effort most likely far outstripped the value of the T2 BPOs. This is typically the case with many lotteries. Most state run lotteries are in essence tax schemes in that they raise far, far more money in revenues for the state than they payout in winnings. Thus the amount of work effort (i.e. how most people get the money to buy the tickets) that is expended relative to the winnings paid out is larger.
So, yes the lottery was bad...on a number of levels:
1. Created the appearance of unfairness as part of the game design. 2. Created an arbitrary limit on the number of T2 items in game. 3. Lead to the rise in cartels which raised T2 prices significant.
But now we have invention and all of the above problems have largely been eliminated or seriously mitigated.
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Kristell
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Posted - 2010.09.19 18:56:00 -
[404]
this is so funny stupid t2 BPO owners are only and i repeat only trying to watch over theyre welth and none can come into that market with the same profit as them hmmmm strange, but doenst matter what stupid arguements you give, this is a bad thing to have in the game and, invention will never be as good as bpo¦s and from bpo¦s you will always produce less expensive ships then with invention and thats a fact, and you cant compare it to stuff that never had bpo¦s, because that market is run by invention not bpo¦s, ME PE and all that stuff will always be higher on bpo¦s and thus making the stuff alot less expensive to build over the invention bpc¦s and thats a fact
guess akita has some of those bpo¦s and trying to protect income from them,, keep bringin crap on here because those with brains know your just full of crap,
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.09.19 20:04:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Kristell guess akita has some of those bpo
Guessed wrong. _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.09.19 22:17:00 -
[406]
Originally by: Kristell this is so funny stupid t2 BPO owners are only and i repeat only trying to watch over theyre welth and none can come into that market with the same profit as them hmmmm strange, but doenst matter what stupid arguements you give, this is a bad thing to have in the game and, invention will never be as good as bpo¦s and from bpo¦s you will always produce less expensive ships then with invention and thats a fact, and you cant compare it to stuff that never had bpo¦s, because that market is run by invention not bpo¦s, ME PE and all that stuff will always be higher on bpo¦s and thus making the stuff alot less expensive to build over the invention bpc¦s and thats a fact
guess akita has some of those bpo¦s and trying to protect income from them,, keep bringin crap on here because those with brains know your just full of crap,
You are illiterate.
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Kristell
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Posted - 2010.09.19 23:42:00 -
[407]
i¦m not, and no maybe akita isnt a bpo owner, but to me sounds like one in hiding but i might be wrong, if making t2 things from invention would be around the same as with bpo then it wouldnt matter to the one¦s making them would it ? nope, but it does matter to the bpo owners, so all they are doing is trying to hold on to that welth making machine, and sad fact is that same people own most of the high end deposits of material, but all t2 bpo¦s should be removed and maybe even refunded of some part, but if bpo¦s are not taken away then invention needs a way to get ME higher then it can now |
Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.09.20 04:24:00 -
[408]
Edited by: Nahkep Narmelion on 20/09/2010 04:26:50
Originally by: Kristell this is so funny stupid t2 BPO owners are only and i repeat only trying to watch over theyre welth and none can come into that market with the same profit as them hmmmm strange, but doenst matter what stupid arguements you give, this is a bad thing to have in the game and, invention will never be as good as bpo¦s and from bpo¦s you will always produce less expensive ships then with invention and thats a fact, and you cant compare it to stuff that never had bpo¦s, because that market is run by invention not bpo¦s, ME PE and all that stuff will always be higher on bpo¦s and thus making the stuff alot less expensive to build over the invention bpc¦s and thats a fact
guess akita has some of those bpo¦s and trying to protect income from them,, keep bringin crap on here because those with brains know your just full of crap,
I don't have any T2 BPOs either, yet I defend their presence in game for reasons previously cited. Go read the thread before further revealing your ignorance on a billboard for all to see.
I'm also going to take a wild guess here and conclude you are a NUB who doesn't know anything about invention or even how the Eve markets work.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.20 06:32:00 -
[409]
If you want a BPO, which does not require invention, then buy a Tech 1 BPO. It has plenty of them and that is what they are there for.
Tech 2 requires invention and Tech 3 requires reverse engineering. This is how the game mechanic works and Tech 2 BPOs were a mistake. --
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Nahkep Narmelion
Gallente CALIMA COLLABORATIVE
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Posted - 2010.09.20 06:49:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 20/09/2010 06:45:50 If you want a BPO, which does not require invention, then buy a Tech 1 BPO. It has plenty of them and that is what they are there for.
Tech 2 requires invention and Tech 3 requires reverse engineering. This is how the game mechanic works and Tech 2 BPOs were a mistake. Enjoy the last T2 BPOs while you can. They are practically not available on the open market anyway.
One last question to think about: if Akita T does not have any but wants them, then who is envious, greedy and jealous here?!
1. She's never claimed to want them for herself. 2. She's argued keeping them in game, right now, provides some benefit. 3. It has been pointed out that over time the impact/effect of T2 BPOs will likely fade and that they are essentially being removed slowly but surely.
So stop being such an utter moron.
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2010.09.20 07:33:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Kristell i¦m not, and no maybe akita isnt a bpo owner, but to me sounds like one in hiding but i might be wrong, if making t2 things from invention would be around the same as with bpo then it wouldnt matter to the one¦s making them would it ? nope, but it does matter to the bpo owners, so all they are doing is trying to hold on to that welth making machine, and sad fact is that same people own most of the high end deposits of material, but all t2 bpo¦s should be removed and maybe even refunded of some part, but if bpo¦s are not taken away then invention needs a way to get ME higher then it can now
Inebriated conspiracy theories much?
Seriously, pass whatever illegal narcotic it is that you acquired in Amamake over here. I want some.
CCP's opinion of theft in EVE:
Originally by: CCP Shadow Did you get their waffles too?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.20 08:22:00 -
[412]
Edited by: Whitehound on 20/09/2010 08:23:17
Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion 1. She's never claimed to want them for herself. 2. She's argued keeping them in game, right now, provides some benefit. 3. It has been pointed out that over time the impact/effect of T2 BPOs will likely fade and that they are essentially being removed slowly but surely.
So stop being such an utter moron.
1. She is unable to say what she wants. 2. Keeping nonsense in an otherwise good game is stupid. 3. I know and CCP is just being lazy and should have removed them together with the lottery. 4. Stop crying now, all right? --
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Ruhige Schmerz
Valhalla Naval Corp IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.09.20 08:26:00 -
[413]
Removing T2 BPOs would make the game better by removing every discussion like this from the forums, in game chat, and voice chat. That alone is enough reason to remove them. No more clueless inventors crying that the T2 BPO owners have an advantage, and no more T2 BPO owners claiming they have a 'right' to keep them.
As for how to remove them 'fairly'? Pfft. Life isn't fair. Just delete them. If a few owners ragequit, so much the better, they were going to ragequit over something anyway.
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Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
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Posted - 2010.09.20 09:41:00 -
[414]
How about a negative lottery which just let the bpos vanish by bad luck if there are used ? Would be nice to see those shiny bpos on the market with dropping prices.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.09.20 10:55:00 -
[415]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/09/2010 10:59:13
Originally by: Whitehound One last question to think about: if Akita T does not have any but wants them, then who is envious, greedy and jealous here?!
Hey, moron, I don't WANT any, and I have said so myself a few times in this thread too. Just like I also don't want a supercapital ship for myself, or I don't want an Opux or a Mimir and so on and so forth. But not wanting one for myself does not imply not wanting them to exist. I DO want them TO EXIST, I just don't want any for myself. They're nowhere near worth the current pricetag, in my opinion. If I'd ever be gifted one, the first thing I'd do with it would be TO SELL IT.
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Nahkep Narmelion 1. She's never claimed to want them for herself. 2. She's argued keeping them in game, right now, provides some benefit. 3. It has been pointed out that over time the impact/effect of T2 BPOs will likely fade and that they are essentially being removed slowly but surely.
1. She is unable to say what she wants. 2. Keeping nonsense in an otherwise good game is stupid. 3. I know and CCP is just being lazy and should have removed them together with the lottery. 4. Stop crying now, all right?
1. You are unable to understand what's written plainly and repeatedly. What I want is to LOGICALLY convince people that want T2 BPOs gone that their efforts are pointless, that removing them would have negligible benefit in the long run and cause significant issues in the short run. 2. You'd have to even start proving that T2 BPOs are nonsense to begin with. Other than misguided crusaders of justice and inventors that never bother to do the math, who else is bothered by them ? GOOD inventors certainly aren't. REMOVING something out of misplaced outrage is even STUPIDER. 3. As usual, what you say makes no sense. WHY should they have done that ? And how exactly do you propose they should have done it in a way that would not be even more unfair than the actual lottery ? 4. Actually, it's people that cry about wanting to remove T2 BPOs that should stop crying. You probably mean we should stop shouting at and stop b-slapping those crybabies into silence, don't you ? No can do. Operation "slap T2 BPO crybabies" is a go and approaching stage 15.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.09.20 11:03:00 -
[416]
Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz Removing T2 BPOs would make the game better by removing every discussion like this from the forums, in game chat, and voice chat. That alone is enough reason to remove them. No more clueless inventors crying that the T2 BPO owners have an advantage, and no more T2 BPO owners claiming they have a 'right' to keep them.
As if clueless inventors are not crying right now about items where T2 BPOs never existed in the first place ?!? If we'd remove everything that causes tears, we wouldn't HAVE a game anymore.
Quote: As for how to remove them 'fairly'? Pfft. Life isn't fair. Just delete them. If a few owners ragequit, so much the better, they were going to ragequit over something anyway.
Yes, let's just remove other stuff arbitrarily. You know what, let's just wipe the server clean and have a fresh restart. Hey, how about we do that on a monthly basis ? What if some people ragequit over it ?
Originally by: Aphrodite Skripalle How about a negative lottery which just let the bpos vanish by bad luck if there are used ? Would be nice to see those shiny bpos on the market with dropping prices.
Sure, why not. As long as you make T1 BPOs behave the same way. And any BPCs too. In fact, also make invention have a chance of halfing the wallet of people you ever sent ISK or goods to. That would be so hilarious !!!
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Riho
Gallente Magnificent Beavers The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2010.09.20 12:29:00 -
[417]
Edited by: Riho on 20/09/2010 12:29:41 i have read allmost all pages now of this thread since from my last post.
seriously... most of you whiners are just /facepalm.
it comes down to the simple lvl of LUCK.
like with big lotteries.. it was the same with t2 bpo lotteries.
few won... most didnt
if you didnt... QQ moar.
yes, i won 1... it was a really crappy one tho.. so i sold it on.
same thing works in rl... you buy a ticket for the lotterie... if you win.. good for u, if u dont, well then it sucks.
or you could just ignore it and do your own thing.
t1 production if done right, earns more anyways. (this is not from my experiance but seeing a corp mate rake in 100s of billions with hes t1 production, shows me that) invention earns way more than when you have a few t2 bpos.
so, as a inventor... i dont really care that they are ingame. there arent any cartells left anymore in this game to control prices on a large scale.
quit crying.
---------------------------------- Fighting for something
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.09.20 12:38:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Akita T Hey, moron, I don't WANT any, and I have said so myself a few times in this thread too.
You can say so a hundred times, but your fight for the T2 BPOs speaks for itself. You want them. --
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.09.20 13:30:00 -
[419]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/09/2010 13:31:34
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Akita T Hey, moron, I don't WANT any, and I have said so myself a few times in this thread too.
You can say so a hundred times, but your fight for the T2 BPOs speaks for itself. You want them.
Whee, I want equal rights for women ! I must be a woman ! Whee, I want equal rights for gay people ! I must be gay ! Whee, I want equal rights for black people ! I must be black ! So I must be a black gay woman. You know, as opposed to what I actually am. ...friggin' idiot.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Cyrus Doul
Infinite Covenant
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Posted - 2010.09.20 13:50:00 -
[420]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Kristell guess akita has some of those bpo
Guessed wrong.
I'll Believe that when ccp closes down the game. Anyways, More to come on the rediculous clicks and profitability. People seem to forget that you can make copies of t2 bpos but I have the math for that on my computer at home and I'm at work right now.
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