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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.12.21 11:25:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Ahh, but forgive me if im wrong here, but dont most of u shave to choose between high damage, low armour and low damage high armour? not both?
One or the other, yes. ----------------------------------------------
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.12.21 11:25:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino Ahh, but forgive me if im wrong here, but dont most of u shave to choose between high damage, low armour and low damage high armour? not both?
One or the other, yes. ----------------------------------------------
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Ebedar
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Posted - 2004.12.21 11:34:00 -
[123]
Originally by: j0sephine How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
My life in pictures: |
Ebedar
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Posted - 2004.12.21 11:34:00 -
[124]
Originally by: j0sephine How many fanbois does it take to change a lightbulb? None. They just sit in the dark, claim it's fine as it is and tell everyone who don't like it to leave...
My life in pictures: |
Hardin
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:03:00 -
[125]
I don't want to turn this into just an Amarr vs the world arguement however our main weapon is pretty much the most cap intensive that exists.
Therefore the longer any fight lasts the more cap problems we will have. This change therefore directly impacts on laser users in a larger way than the other races.
It also means EW ships like Scorpions become even more uber. With extra shields/armour/structure they have even more time to cycle jam everything on the battlefield.
Amarr ships have crap EW. The only EW we can have is at the expense of cap rechargers/relays. We also have only two damage types. Our defences against jamming are limited - kill the jammer quick (no longer so easy due to this change) or fit sensor boosters/radar backups but we cannot fit those countermeasures if battles take longer as we will need to fit cap relays and cap rechargers in order to sustain power.
As I said before I am generally like these changes but the developers do need to take these cap use issues into account. I think from TomB's post that they are to some extent but they need to look at the whole picture.
Cap boosters for instance. You can only fit 8 x 800 cap boosters in an Apoc cargo hold at the moment. That is fine if engagements are typically short - but if engagements drag on you will soon run out of boosters.
As I have said I have not tested this yet (being at work) but these seem like obvious drawbacks to the change.
I am also pointing out to those who are saying that with extra armour Amarr will be ubertanks that ubertank is pointless if you are jammed or have run out of cap...
Finally, just one other thing for the Devs to think about If all ships have so much extra shield/armour/structure then tanking sentries in 0.4 to 0.1 becomes even easier. I forsee an increase in low-sec gate camping unless sentry gun damage is also upped. Or maybe that should be welcomed
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:03:00 -
[126]
I don't want to turn this into just an Amarr vs the world arguement however our main weapon is pretty much the most cap intensive that exists.
Therefore the longer any fight lasts the more cap problems we will have. This change therefore directly impacts on laser users in a larger way than the other races.
It also means EW ships like Scorpions become even more uber. With extra shields/armour/structure they have even more time to cycle jam everything on the battlefield.
Amarr ships have crap EW. The only EW we can have is at the expense of cap rechargers/relays. We also have only two damage types. Our defences against jamming are limited - kill the jammer quick (no longer so easy due to this change) or fit sensor boosters/radar backups but we cannot fit those countermeasures if battles take longer as we will need to fit cap relays and cap rechargers in order to sustain power.
As I said before I am generally like these changes but the developers do need to take these cap use issues into account. I think from TomB's post that they are to some extent but they need to look at the whole picture.
Cap boosters for instance. You can only fit 8 x 800 cap boosters in an Apoc cargo hold at the moment. That is fine if engagements are typically short - but if engagements drag on you will soon run out of boosters.
As I have said I have not tested this yet (being at work) but these seem like obvious drawbacks to the change.
I am also pointing out to those who are saying that with extra armour Amarr will be ubertanks that ubertank is pointless if you are jammed or have run out of cap...
Finally, just one other thing for the Devs to think about If all ships have so much extra shield/armour/structure then tanking sentries in 0.4 to 0.1 becomes even easier. I forsee an increase in low-sec gate camping unless sentry gun damage is also upped. Or maybe that should be welcomed
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:08:00 -
[127]
So, my lady loving Amarrian advesary.
You wish for Amarr ships to be able to tank indefintely, deal more than two types of damages and have good ew defence. As well as have powerful well tracking weapons, and rocking armour? .. so what indeed would be your weaknesss?
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"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:08:00 -
[128]
So, my lady loving Amarrian advesary.
You wish for Amarr ships to be able to tank indefintely, deal more than two types of damages and have good ew defence. As well as have powerful well tracking weapons, and rocking armour? .. so what indeed would be your weaknesss?
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:13:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino So, my lady loving Amarrian advesary.
You wish for Amarr ships to be able to tank indefintely, deal more than two types of damages and have good ew defence. As well as have powerful well tracking weapons, and rocking armour? .. so what indeed would be your weaknesss?
He did not say that ;) ----------------------------------------------
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:13:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino So, my lady loving Amarrian advesary.
You wish for Amarr ships to be able to tank indefintely, deal more than two types of damages and have good ew defence. As well as have powerful well tracking weapons, and rocking armour? .. so what indeed would be your weaknesss?
He did not say that ;) ----------------------------------------------
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:19:00 -
[131]
Indeed I didn't...
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:19:00 -
[132]
Indeed I didn't...
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:21:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Discorporation on 21/12/2004 12:21:36 Lasers use fkall cap when you got your skills maxed, so that's not really an argument, imo
Apocs will do fine, if not amazing, after a change like this.
Amarr ships can out-cap practically every other vessel. Laser cap-drain help balance this (on ships other then apocs), but they use little cap atm.
7.5% cap/lvl better?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:21:00 -
[134]
Edited by: Discorporation on 21/12/2004 12:21:36 Lasers use fkall cap when you got your skills maxed, so that's not really an argument, imo
Apocs will do fine, if not amazing, after a change like this.
Amarr ships can out-cap practically every other vessel. Laser cap-drain help balance this (on ships other then apocs), but they use little cap atm.
7.5% cap/lvl better?
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:25:00 -
[135]
/ruffles Hardins sparse hair follicles.
Dude, i tell you what, ill swap chars with you for a day, and then we can see things from the other side. :) -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:25:00 -
[136]
/ruffles Hardins sparse hair follicles.
Dude, i tell you what, ill swap chars with you for a day, and then we can see things from the other side. :) -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Loka
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:34:00 -
[137]
well my Blastersetup suxx more cap than any of your lasers. Together with the MWD i HAVE to fit, you must admit, that the Gallente Blasterthsips are the most capintensive ships in EVE.
Dont come me with Amarr. When i already read, "damn i cant use my full offense AND defense for more than 10 min..." Damn i struggle doing it for 4 min!!!!!!!!
Most Megathron pilots not even have the ability to fit more than one large AR and one med! _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
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Loka
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Posted - 2004.12.21 12:34:00 -
[138]
well my Blastersetup suxx more cap than any of your lasers. Together with the MWD i HAVE to fit, you must admit, that the Gallente Blasterthsips are the most capintensive ships in EVE.
Dont come me with Amarr. When i already read, "damn i cant use my full offense AND defense for more than 10 min..." Damn i struggle doing it for 4 min!!!!!!!!
Most Megathron pilots not even have the ability to fit more than one large AR and one med! _____________________________________ Dead or Alive
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.12.21 13:28:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
i am NPC huntting in one, so dont try to fool us!
Apoch can without no problems use Beams and armor tank indefinetly -------------------------------------------
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.12.21 13:28:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Hardin All people going 'Amarr for t3h win' please remember this:
Amarr ships are heavily dependent on cap for defence and offence.
Any change which means it is going to take longer to kill an opponent should realise that laser users (heavy cap use) will be penalised.
An Amarr ship with two large reppers and full set of lasers cannot keep a defence and offence going for more than a few minutes (and that is with maxed skills) unless they use cap injectors or pack spare slots with cap relay/rechargers (reducing general effectiveness)
i am NPC huntting in one, so dont try to fool us!
Apoch can without no problems use Beams and armor tank indefinetly -------------------------------------------
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.12.21 13:56:00 -
[141]
I am going to shut up now...
This is clearly a Minmatar conspiracy
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Hardin
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Posted - 2004.12.21 13:56:00 -
[142]
I am going to shut up now...
This is clearly a Minmatar conspiracy
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H Zub
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Posted - 2004.12.21 13:59:00 -
[143]
This change may sound good, but is it really?
After this change how can you fight solo? Its hard as it is already to pick a fight, and easy for anyone who dont want to fight to just get away or stay out of pvp. If we double the hit points of all ships anyone who wish to escape will reach the gate or station before his ship will explode, even when webified. Could this be what CCP want? I truly hope thats not the case.
I'm not interested in big blob wars, if you try to force me I'll simply find another game. Captain Morgan Society Me parrot Movie |
H Zub
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Posted - 2004.12.21 13:59:00 -
[144]
This change may sound good, but is it really?
After this change how can you fight solo? Its hard as it is already to pick a fight, and easy for anyone who dont want to fight to just get away or stay out of pvp. If we double the hit points of all ships anyone who wish to escape will reach the gate or station before his ship will explode, even when webified. Could this be what CCP want? I truly hope thats not the case.
I'm not interested in big blob wars, if you try to force me I'll simply find another game. Captain Morgan Society Me parrot Movie |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.12.21 14:22:00 -
[145]
lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.12.21 14:22:00 -
[146]
lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values. -
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.12.21 14:26:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values.
like they did when they fixed projektiles? right? -------------------------------------------
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.12.21 14:26:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Khaldorn Murino lads lads lads lads, lets hit the chill pills a bit eh?
Its just for testing and talking about afaik so far, so theres no need to panic, just put forth your view across and explain why, i think thats what they want.
Im sure they've thought about alot of this stuff and not just spent 5 minutes making up arbitary values.
like they did when they fixed projektiles? right? -------------------------------------------
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.12.21 14:27:00 -
[149]
It¦s quite simple: tanking will get improved! This means a Scorpion with 15000 shield, 8 hardeners will be a very safe ship to travel. If you jump into an enemy team of 3 ships, just activate hardeners and log of. Who will destroy 30000 hitpoints in 3 minutes if 15000 of these hitpoints have resistances about 70-80%???
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.12.21 14:27:00 -
[150]
It¦s quite simple: tanking will get improved! This means a Scorpion with 15000 shield, 8 hardeners will be a very safe ship to travel. If you jump into an enemy team of 3 ships, just activate hardeners and log of. Who will destroy 30000 hitpoints in 3 minutes if 15000 of these hitpoints have resistances about 70-80%???
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