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Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
336
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Posted - 2012.07.27 15:41:00 -
[211] - Quote
these resists changes are BAAAAD
max ehp hulk went from 49.3k to 35.9k on the same fit. If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
stoicfaux
1327
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Posted - 2012.07.27 15:43:00 -
[212] - Quote
Denidil wrote: Hulk: Base Resit change, suspect a typo! 100/50/60/80 (from 62.5/35/37.5/50) - resist bonus change from 3.0% to 7.5%/level
It's 1.0 - resistResonance. So it's actually 0/50/40/20 resists instead of 100/50/60/80 resists.
edit: That's assuming by typo you meant the resists were too high. If you meant that the lowered resists must be a typo, then disregard my post.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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stoicfaux
1327
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Posted - 2012.07.27 15:46:00 -
[213] - Quote
Denidil wrote:these resists changes are BAAAAD
max ehp hulk went from 49.3k to 35.9k on the same fit. Then fly a Skiff instead of a Hulk. It's the main point of the mining ship changes.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
886
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Posted - 2012.07.27 15:49:00 -
[214] - Quote
Denidil wrote:these resists changes are BAAAAD
max ehp hulk went from 49.3k to 35.9k on the same fit. Just a quick look at a Hulk, and it seemed the structure was significantly reduced to about 2/3 of current.
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Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
336
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Posted - 2012.07.27 15:57:00 -
[215] - Quote
pyfa isn't applying the resist bonuses.. i'm trying to see if i can fix that. If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
102
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Posted - 2012.07.27 15:58:00 -
[216] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Denidil wrote:these resists changes are BAAAAD
max ehp hulk went from 49.3k to 35.9k on the same fit. Just a quick look at a Hulk, and it seemed the structure was significantly reduced to about 2/3 of current. That would be BAAAAD (to quote Denidil)... HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression -á- The only way to go! |
Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
336
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:05:00 -
[217] - Quote
looks like i need to do manual comparisons in game between live and test now to compare tanking stats
[edit] test server confirmed - overall hulk resistances are lower.. but i'm level 4 .. but sisi is showing 25% EM for level 4 not 30% for level 4.. so something isn't right If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
284
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:17:00 -
[218] - Quote
Denidil wrote:looks like i need to do manual comparisons in game between live and test now to compare tanking stats
[edit] test server confirmed - overall hulk resistances are lower.. but i'm level 4 .. but sisi is showing 25% EM for level 4 not 30% for level 4.. so something isn't right
double confirmed, also exhumer 4 on sisi, 25% EM resistance with no fittings. it's not just you. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
336
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:21:00 -
[219] - Quote
actually resistances are based on mining barge, not exhumers.. so it is really really wrong. i bugreported If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
284
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:35:00 -
[220] - Quote
Denidil wrote:actually resistances are based on mining barge, not exhumers.. so it is really really wrong. i bugreported
if it's mining barge level 5*1.05 is 1.25... right? so it's gone from 7.5% per barge level, to 5% Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
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Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
336
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:36:00 -
[221] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Denidil wrote:actually resistances are based on mining barge, not exhumers.. so it is really really wrong. i bugreported if it's mining barge level 5*1.05 is 1.25... right? so it's gone from 7.5% per barge level, to 5%
yeah i think they're messed it up based on the dump.. dump says it should be 7.5/level If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
284
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:37:00 -
[222] - Quote
Denidil wrote:Dave stark wrote:Denidil wrote:actually resistances are based on mining barge, not exhumers.. so it is really really wrong. i bugreported if it's mining barge level 5*1.05 is 1.25... right? so it's gone from 7.5% per barge level, to 5% yeah i think they're messed it up based on the dump.. dump says it should be 7.5/level
it's just come to my attention from the other thread that the cov has a 500m3 cargo bay still, which means either the covetor or the hulk's cargo bay is "wrong" as they're not consistent.
i think there are a few things that need correcting in today's sisi update. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Ditra Vorthran
State War Academy Caldari State
91
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:05:00 -
[223] - Quote
Don't have any of the quick maths with my (at work ftl -_-), but I did some testing yesterday with Ice mining.
Mack: 2 x Ice harvesters II
1 EM Ward Amplifier (passive tank, can't remember the right name)
3 x Ice Harvester Laser Upgrades
1 x Medium Overclocking Rig I 1 x Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Assuming max Rorqual skills, max Exhumer/Barge, and Mining Foreman Mindlink Bonus, I was getting a cycle time of 103 (and change) seconds and an EHP of I think 12k.
With a 31k ore bay, you'd fill up every 12+ minutes.
Haven't tested it in High Sec and an Orca.
Still waiting for those Ice Harvester rigs to show up. "Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus |
Javajunky
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
31
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:16:00 -
[224] - Quote
Denidil wrote:new batch of changes.. analyzing. http://pastebin.com/fnuau8HH
skill requirements to fly updated for all ships Procurer: 3 more midslots (4 total now), 25 drone capacity and bandwidth Retriever: base orehold 22500, +5% per barge level Hulk: Base Resit change, suspect a typo! 100/50/60/80 (from 62.5/35/37.5/50) - resist bonus change from 3.0% to 7.5%/level Mackinaw: Same resists as Hulk now Skiff: 50m3/50mbit drone, same resists as other exhumers and same resist bonus rigging costs ice and mercoxit role rigs increased to 250 looks like i need to go update my pyfa again and refigure all the tanking numbers. it doesn't look like this dump has actually gone live yet. (retriver still has 1 mid) .. however something has gone live T1 laser crystals: 15m3 T2 laser crystals: 25m3
Seriously the Hulk Bay was further reduced in size? Can you double check that?
500 to 350 m3 - what's up with this sh|t
What's the big f'ing problem with us having the ability to carry a full set of crystals? If we are going down to 25m3 each, ok then the Cargo needs to be 975 m3. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
286
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:24:00 -
[225] - Quote
Javajunky wrote:Denidil wrote:new batch of changes.. analyzing. http://pastebin.com/fnuau8HH
skill requirements to fly updated for all ships Procurer: 3 more midslots (4 total now), 25 drone capacity and bandwidth Retriever: base orehold 22500, +5% per barge level Hulk: Base Resit change, suspect a typo! 100/50/60/80 (from 62.5/35/37.5/50) - resist bonus change from 3.0% to 7.5%/level Mackinaw: Same resists as Hulk now Skiff: 50m3/50mbit drone, same resists as other exhumers and same resist bonus rigging costs ice and mercoxit role rigs increased to 250 looks like i need to go update my pyfa again and refigure all the tanking numbers. it doesn't look like this dump has actually gone live yet. (retriver still has 1 mid) .. however something has gone live T1 laser crystals: 15m3 T2 laser crystals: 25m3 Seriously the Hulk Bay was further reduced in size? Can you double check that? 500 to 350 m3 - what's up with this sh|t What's the big f'ing problem with us having the ability to carry a full set of crystals? If we are going down to 25m3 each, ok then the Cargo needs to be 975 m3.
yes it has changed, but the covetor's hasn't, meaning it's probably an accidental change, or the covetor is in for a nice neutering too.
however with the crystals being 25m3 not 50m3, we've "gained" space even with the cargo reduction. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Haffsol
Froody Guys Spaceships Business
9
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:39:00 -
[226] - Quote
wtf! the hulk had too much love for a couple of days in sisi, better to nerf it already! |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
516
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:04:00 -
[227] - Quote
Of course, with the hulk being a fleet ship, you could store the spare crystals in the support ship... FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
288
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:08:00 -
[228] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Of course, with the hulk being a fleet ship, you could store the spare crystals in the support ship...
except if you're not in the support ship's corp you can't access it's corp hangars; nor is this useful if it's providing off-grid boosts due to the dangerous nature of the area you're mining in.
even worse if the support ship is some one's alt and they're focusing on managing other accounts so they can't see your constant nagging for crystal reloads. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Haffsol
Froody Guys Spaceships Business
9
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:13:00 -
[229] - Quote
I was talking about the ehp, the cargobay has been buffed in this last patch |
Infinite Force
Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance
102
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:14:00 -
[230] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Of course, with the hulk being a fleet ship, you could store the spare crystals in the support ship... The only people I see advocating this response seem to be those that have no experience in large or dangerous ops.
If you are solo mining in HS, then yes, this is appropriate.
In Low / Null / WH space, you need the storage in the Mining ship. Period. The haulers are going to be to concerned with pickups and get outs to worry about a crystal drop. HROLT CEO Live Free; Die Proud
Hammer Mineral Compression -á- The only way to go! |
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Zetaomega333
HIFI INDUSTRIAL ROL.Citizens
11
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:19:00 -
[231] - Quote
Infinite Force wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Of course, with the hulk being a fleet ship, you could store the spare crystals in the support ship... The only people I see advocating this response seem to be those that have no experience in large or dangerous ops. If you are solo mining in HS, then yes, this is appropriate. In Low / Null / WH space, you need the storage in the Mining ship. Period. The haulers are going to be to concerned with pickups and get outs to worry about a crystal drop.
Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
516
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:21:00 -
[232] - Quote
I'm just under the impression that one of the goals of the changes is to make the Hulk a fleet ops ship, rather than a solo ship. Mostly because that's been explicitly stated. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator, invention chance calculator, isk/m3 Ore chart-á and other 'useful' utilities. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
289
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:23:00 -
[233] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:I'm just under the impression that one of the goals of the changes is to make the Hulk a fleet ops ship, rather than a solo ship. Mostly because that's been explicitly stated.
there's a difference between "works best in fleets" and "only works in fleets". Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Pipa Porto
536
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:33:00 -
[234] - Quote
Zetaomega333 wrote:Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it.
Why? The Mackinaw will probably yield more once you take dropoffs into account.
37k m3 vs 7500 (or Jetcans and switching ships) EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
290
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:37:00 -
[235] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Zetaomega333 wrote:Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it. Why? The Mackinaw will probably yield more once you take dropoffs into account. 37k m3 vs 7500 (or Jetcans and switching ships)
31k vs 7500. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Pipa Porto
536
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:43:00 -
[236] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Zetaomega333 wrote:Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it. Why? The Mackinaw will probably yield more once you take dropoffs into account. 37k m3 vs 7500 (or Jetcans and switching ships) 31k vs 7500.
They dropped it down? Or did I screw up in reading basic numbers (entirely possible). EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
290
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:49:00 -
[237] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Zetaomega333 wrote:Second this, Empire bears seem to be under the illusion that nullsec and wh miners will ONLY use the hulk when in a fleet, when in fact we use hulks to solo mine and will keep doing it. Why? The Mackinaw will probably yield more once you take dropoffs into account. 37k m3 vs 7500 (or Jetcans and switching ships) 31k vs 7500. They dropped it down? Or did I screw up in reading basic numbers (entirely possible).
uhm, yesterday the mining barge bonus dropped from 10% cargo to 5% cargo and the ret got an ore hold buff of 2.5k. ret gets 28k, mack gets 31k (rounded) unless you need the tank the mackinaw is very unappealing right now in comparison to it's little brother. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
336
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:54:00 -
[238] - Quote
yeah they reduced the mac hold.. so lame If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Pipa Porto
536
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:59:00 -
[239] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: They dropped it down? Or did I screw up in reading basic numbers (entirely possible).
uhm, yesterday the mining barge bonus dropped from 10% cargo to 5% cargo and the ret got an ore hold buff of 2.5k. ret gets 28k, mack gets 31k (rounded) unless you need the tank the mackinaw is very unappealing right now in comparison to it's little brother.
... The Mack's Ore bay is like the only change they got right. There is literally no problem with the cavernous bay on a ship designed to have a cavernous bay.
The problem is that it's massive tank takes away from the Skiff's role, and the Skiff's big Ore bay takes away from the Mack's role. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
291
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Posted - 2012.07.27 19:04:00 -
[240] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: They dropped it down? Or did I screw up in reading basic numbers (entirely possible).
uhm, yesterday the mining barge bonus dropped from 10% cargo to 5% cargo and the ret got an ore hold buff of 2.5k. ret gets 28k, mack gets 31k (rounded) unless you need the tank the mackinaw is very unappealing right now in comparison to it's little brother. ... The Mack's Ore bay is like the only change they got right. There is literally no problem with the cavernous bay on a ship designed to have a cavernous bay. The problem is that it's massive tank takes away from the Skiff's role, and the Skiff's big Ore bay takes away from the Mack's role.
another thing i find disconcerting is that going from procurer > skiff and cov > hulk feels like an upgrade for their role.
less than once cycle of extra space doesn't feel like an upgrade. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
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