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Redpoppy
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Posted - 2010.08.01 06:00:00 -
[1]
Are Electronic Attack Frigates going to get buffed anytime before the end of EVE? ------------------------------------------------------------ 1) They cannot do their tackle/point job as good as either a Recon or an Interceptor. They have more medium slots for TP or webbing or warp disruption, however, since they're so much slower than an average interceptor, their role can't be accomplished in meaningful time vs. any gang with interceptors.
2) The Hyena for instance, with its TP bonus. An overpowered recon ship can TP from anywhere!! wtf.
3) If they want to web, they're gonna die doing it. ------------------------------------------------------------
The only thing I could say for an EAF is, "hey if you're in a JC and only want to spend $4M fitting a stupid EAF in a lol small gang, then lol it up."
Otherwise, WTF EAF's????
Disclaimer: No you can't have my stuff, I just logged off of WoW, and the doll touched me *here* *here* and *here*
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Jyngo
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Posted - 2010.08.01 06:44:00 -
[2]
You know EAFs can do more than tackle right?
I like the Kitsune myself.
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Sneaky Noob
Cartamundi
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Posted - 2010.08.01 06:55:00 -
[3]
protips:
don't tp with a hyena. t2 web and point. magic!!
sebo a keres: omg long scram omg ur dead
sentinels can actually 1v1 alot of frigates
The Sneakiest N00b in all of EVE -------
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.01 08:47:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Redpoppy 1) They cannot do their tackle/point job as good as either a Recon or an Interceptor. [/quote
Um they don't cost as much as a Recon, so that arguement is moot.
In a small gang with logistics support, they have their place. I've seen them used to great effect. Yeah they are lacking in some areas, but other things could do with some focus before the EAS.
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Millie Clode
Amarr Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.08.01 08:55:00 -
[5]
Personally I love the sentinel. In solo PvP it's the equal of any frigate other than the dramiel and maybe the slicer (depending on the fit).
If you want super-fast point with extended range, just check how many sensor boosters you can fit on a keres...yeah keres doesnt match an inty for pure speed but everything is situation dependant. Also a big rack of damps on a frigate is lethal in the hands of a competent pilot.
Ditto the kitsune.
I haven't yet found a worthwhile use for the hyena yet. It must be the only minmatar t2 frigate that falls down in comparison to the other races versions. GIEF MINNIES MOAR EWAR PLOX! ---------- Who, me? |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.08.01 12:12:00 -
[6]
1) I was unaware that eWar ships were designated tacklers, if that is what you use them for then it is no wonder you are having issues. 2) All ships benefit from specialized fittings, the very small Hyena makes a great stand-off support painter for heavy hitters or an inescapable web-o-maniac that no frig can escape .. Recons with their higher slot count is able to do more than one at a time but it is rarely done due to specialization > trade-jack. 3) See 1. For the Hyena using webs solo against anything with 18km+ range is asking for it, combined with support however ...
Use them properly and they really do have a place, they could use a tweak here and there but on the whole they are pretty good at what they do.
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tagen young
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Posted - 2010.08.01 12:25:00 -
[7]
Some of the EAF's can be very effective. The Hyena however is the weak link in the Minmatar T2 frigate lineup. As a target painter the vigil and bellicose do the job well enough at a fraction of the cost. As a web ship you are still very close to the enemy without any great survivability. I own one but never use it as for general gang work there are usually better choices.
Having said that us minmatar pilots are truly blessed when it comes to frigate hulls and we should not complain. So the Hyena is crap, but we have the rifter, vigil, wolf, Jaguar, Stiletto, Hound, Cheetah. Not really found a claw fit I like but better pilots than me seem to be able to make it work. So in my view five top of the line T2 frigates should make any pilot happy.
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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
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Posted - 2010.08.01 12:55:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Lutz Major on 01/08/2010 12:55:41 nvm
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H'1982
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Posted - 2010.08.01 14:19:00 -
[9]
Flown both Sentinel and Kitsune, and I think they do their jobs just fine..namely, countering AF's. Sure, they get ripped to peices when someone gets on top of them..but then again, so do Recons when a Hac has them dead to rights. They are not tacklers, though I understand, that as frigs, they get pigeonholed into that role. You want a frigate sized tackler? train an interceptor, you want tank/gank train an af, you want alpha, train an sb, you want ewar......train an EAF. Matter of fact, seems to me there's a frigate for every job. Suprise suprise, cruisers perform those roles better. And why not?
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Gladys Pank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2010.08.01 14:33:00 -
[10]
OP is talking a load of
Signature locked for inappropriate image. Zymurgist |
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Jones Bones
Final Agony
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Posted - 2010.08.01 15:16:00 -
[11]
EAS ships are great.
Learn to play.
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.08.01 16:42:00 -
[12]
I think electronic attack frigates suck.
Please some one tell me when I would rather use a kitsune over a blackbird?
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.08.01 18:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier I think electronic attack frigates suck.
Please some one tell me when I would rather use a kitsune over a blackbird?
Speed? Agility? Sig radius?
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wizard87
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Posted - 2010.08.01 23:10:00 -
[14]
The could use a little more hp IMHO, just a little...
Keres - Awesome long point and go damp an enemy scorp (effectively ****ing him out of a fight) Hyena - awesome gatecamper with a couple of webs Kitsune - yeah coz we all know jamming first is useless Sentinal - tracking disruptors work pretty well, and neuts are great for anti-taranis work
Altogether you're forgetting the 'Ewar' of EAF.
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Helios Black
Wraith.Wing Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.08.02 00:30:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Helios Black on 02/08/2010 00:31:07 Bro,
A Sentinel with neuts in the highs and TD's in the mids eats almost any other frigate or inty, what are you talking about?
Originally by: Helicity Boson Maybe you should go play Uno with your mom so you can be "second winner" again.
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.08.02 06:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier I think electronic attack frigates suck.
Please some one tell me when I would rather use a kitsune over a blackbird?
Speed? Agility? Sig radius?
Money?
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.08.02 08:44:00 -
[17]
Well maybe not completely worthless...
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Brocas
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Posted - 2010.08.02 11:36:00 -
[18]
Well my kitsune jams targets 70km away with strengh of 10.somethin. All the time orbiting at 900+ m/s and has some rockets to dispatch some incoming drones or frigs that think its defenseless. Warps in and out a lot faster then a blackbird. My blackbird has a strengh of 9.somethin on jammers and jams 110km away from target. Why use one over the other? Wolfpacks and cruiser down gangs...i guess thats the diference. Besides that ur call, but i truly enjoy that little kitsune rendering giants like apocs and geddons worthless ;-)
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.08.02 19:46:00 -
[19]
For fast roaming AF gangs, we've found the 2 x TD vigil and excellent accompaniment. Have your junior pilots who can't fly AFs well yet fly Griffins and TD vigils. They're so cheap that if they do get lost it's no problem.
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.08.03 18:01:00 -
[20]
Blackbird has:
1.7 sec more align time (you win there) ALOT more range Another Mid Slot Insanely cheaper Can tank drones. Doesn't get instapopped by a FREAKING CARACAL. ------------------------------------------------ But honestly, use a rook instead, better than both.
I honestly don't think some people in here have tried fighting with the EAF's yet. Please link any kill mails and the story where the EAF was the deciding factor that a cheaper variant couldn't have accomplished. I'll wait.
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Hurtado Soneka
Caldari Costolle Military Assistance Corporation
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Posted - 2010.08.03 20:33:00 -
[21]
OP is right, EAF are useless, hence why you never see them in space. People who argue kitsune is better than blackbird are just plain stupid.
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Alexandra Stormwing
Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2010.08.03 20:47:00 -
[22]
I like the Kitsune for frigate gangs. It is very mobile, has excellent range with rigs, and won't get caught as easily as the BB at gate camps. For anything else, BB is better in terms of cost/benefit.
I have been flying the Sentinel around recently and, for a solo frigate, I really, really enjoy it. The neuts are great (I have EAS at 5) and can shut down even cruisers fairly quickly, and the TD bonus makes turret boats rather harmless. It's great for ransoming someone since you can render your target ineffective instead of just doing some damage.
Plus, a factor many people are missing on the EAFs in general: They're fun to fly. That matters too. If we only cared about Min-Maxing our flying experience, then only a small slice of Eve's ships would ever leave the station.
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Jyngo
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.08.04 05:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Jyngo on 04/08/2010 05:12:28
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier 1.7 sec more align time (you win there)
YAY!
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier ALOT more range
Both ships have the same bonus to range, admittedly the BB does have an extra rig slot.
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Another Mid Slot
Cool, you can use that for a SeBo to bring its scan res up to just over half the Kitsune's
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Insanely cheaper
Kitsunes are about 18mil. But you dont seem to mind the rook over the BB even tho its about 40x the price (just the hulls)
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Can tank drones.
I seriously doubt a BB could tank a flight of warriors IIs. (for very long)
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Doesn't get instapopped by a FREAKING CARACAL.
Not even sitting still with its MWD on mate. Besides, because of its far superior scan res the Caracal should be jammed before it can launch its missiles.
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier But honestly, use a rook instead, better than both.
In many situations, yes. But it's also a lot more expensive than both.
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.08.04 13:16:00 -
[24]
Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 04/08/2010 13:22:14
Quote: Both ships have the same bonus to range, admittedly the BB does have an extra rig slot.
Blackbird = falloff bonus as well.
Quote: Cool, you can use that for a SeBo to bring its scan res up to just over half the Kitsune's
You are JAMS, not point on gate camps. 4 seconds for a cruiser lock is plenty. That extra mid is ANOTHER racial jammer.
Quote: Kitsunes are about 18mil. But you dont seem to mind the rook over the BB even tho its about 40x the price (just the hulls)
The difference is the ROOK actually does something more. The argument here is the kitsune does less and cost more.
Quote: I seriously doubt a BB could tank a flight of warriors IIs. (for very long)
It has 4x the EHP out of the box of the kitsune. And you can use one low for a 1600mm plate, and move the signal dis. amp to a rig because you have a 3rd rig slot. Making it 8x the EHP.
Do you even fly these things? Seriously, you lost all respect on the whole "same range bonus" thing.
**Forgot about getting instapopped. While I may have been overdramatic in all fairness if a caracal lands a volley of scourge fury on you right after you turn on your MWD and are not up to speed, it does have the volley to instapop you. Against an AML caracal = 2 shots, 3 if you are lucky.
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Tellahane
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Posted - 2010.08.04 13:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
Blackbird = falloff bonus as well.
Falloff on a jam ship = waste of an ecm, if your relying on falloff your not in the right position in the first place, warp out and come back at the right spot or your wasting mods when you don't have to.
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
You are JAMS, not point on gate camps. 4 seconds for a cruiser lock is plenty. That extra mid is ANOTHER racial jammer.
Actually every second does count, ever seen what a tech 2 tempest doing a 12k alpha can do to someone if you don't jam them in time, tempests can get very fast lock times, We just had our neighbor hood tempest sniper pilot pop 2 manti's at once within 2 seconds of coming out of warp at 50km. Thats 2 ships you could have kept alive if you had a faster lock. Assuming your ecm boat was in defense in this situation.
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
The difference is the ROOK actually does something more. The argument here is the kitsune does less and cost more.
Wait...what? kitsune doesn't cost more then a rook? you got a bad argument link there, maybe your referring to blackbird, yeah it does cost more then a blackbird but its faster and quicker, you might be able to jam more targets in a bb but its slower locks and slower all together. Kitsune for small fleets is godly at locking things down quick enough to prevent any damage whatsoever.
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
It has 4x the EHP out of the box of the kitsune. And you can use one low for a 1600mm plate, and move the signal dis. amp to a rig because you have a 3rd rig slot. Making it 8x the EHP.
If you are tanking in a bb then you got bigger problems, you should have everything jammed so they can't hit you at all, and if your in a situation where thats not the case then you need to fly a different ship, or get another pilot with ecm's.
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier
Do you even fly these things? Seriously, you lost all respect on the whole "same range bonus" thing.
**Forgot about getting instapopped. While I may have been overdramatic in all fairness if a caracal lands a volley of scourge fury on you right after you turn on your MWD and are not up to speed, it does have the volley to instapop you. Against an AML caracal = 2 shots, 3 if you are lucky.
Don't forget that on a solar eclipse if it lands on the 3rd friday of the month, during the summer solstice of the 5th planet on the eve of a fleet war in a neighboring system where it has 6 asteroid belts, and one ice belt, that aligns with the 3rd planet matching the color of the star in the next system over you might get a dd out of a blackbird!
Guess what if a tempest with alpha sniping setup does his hit against your 8x ehp blackbird your dead in one hit anyway, the difference was the kitsune managed to lock and jam him before you could. Also the AML caracal, should be jammed before he can fire a 2nd volley, IF you even let him get the first volley.
It's not so much of do you fly these ships as it is, do you know how to fly these ships, your target priority vs target priority of the fleet are 2 different things, and you gotta be able to switch quickly as the fight unfolds, anything you plan on doing just before it starts is irrelevant.
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:11:00 -
[26]
Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 04/08/2010 14:13:26 I'm sorry but I just disagree completely. The difference in locktime on a battleship between the two is 1.7 seconds. I would rather have an extra racial jammer.
And an arty tempest couldn't alpha a 1600mm plate blackbird.
The kitsune can JAM everyone and tanking a jam ship is dumb? Holy crap, I had thought it was chance based and that I was engaging more than 1 ship. You WIN! Busting out the scorp now, no plates for me!
But yes, don't use ECM in falloff. Still a different range bonus :)
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Jyngo
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier The difference is the ROOK actually does something more. The argument here is the kitsune does less and cost more.
Wrong, the Rook does something different. It has greater jamming strength and EHP for 40x the price. Its kinda funny how after the Caldari recon nerf the blackbird has a greater range than its t2 versions. :P
I'm not gonna argue that the Kitsune is better than the BB. What i will argue is that it has its advantages over a BB (speed, scan res, agility and yes survivability in some situations believe it or not). And this means it has its place in PvP. Just as the BB has it's own advantages and its own place.
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NoLimit Soldier
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:18:00 -
[28]
The rook is a blackbird with teeth. How is this doing something different?
Its just a blackbird that pumps out 300-400 DPS.
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Tellahane
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: NoLimit Soldier Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 04/08/2010 14:24:52 ITS TACO TIME!
NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM
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VanNostrum
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Posted - 2010.08.04 14:38:00 -
[30]
A BB doesn't have the speed/align/GTFOability of a Kitsune and obviously you can't bring a BB to a frig gang.
Kitsune aside, Keres, Sentinel and Hyena are also perfect little ships for any frig gang and cost way cheaper than their recon counterparts. People expect EAFs to be top frigs for 1v1 but these are gang ships and hopefully will stay the same, they don't need any buffs.
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